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Ask HN: Is it possible to get an 18-year-old to spend less time on the computer?

• dimitar 4y ago
  Isn't an 18 year old an adult? They don't seem to be treated like one
• clownworldclown 4y ago
  What measures "healthy"? Most "healthy" individuals indulge in addiction: television, food, news. What do the parents hope for the kid's future? What makes a good life? Why is it bad that someone spends 9+ hours a day on the computer when that's the standard for all software engineers? What do they hope to accomplish by restricting internet time? What does the kid want for the future?
• josephcsible 4y ago
  An 18-year-old is an adult. Parents have no right to enforce computer time restrictions on their adult children and should not try to.
  • theandrewbailey 4y ago
    Yes, if they're bothered enough by it, kick him out of the house. You're a grown-up now, figure it out.
    • mistrial9 4y ago
      > kick him do unto others as others have done to you?
      • kleer001 4y ago
        If I was wasting my time at 18 and my parents had kicked me out, and depending on how they did it, I might very well appreciate it when I was older.
  • xeromal 4y ago
    Warning: This is a very American opinion so know that I realize that many people don't feel this way. If my kid is 18 and living at home, I have some say in the life. If they want 0 say, they can find their own way. Obviously, I don't give a rat's ass that my 18 year old games becasue as long as they have a healthy lifestyle, I'm glad they're enjoying themselves but if they're starting to become a hermit and losing friends, not working, not taking care of their health, etc, then they're going to have some pressure from me. You don't get to live off the teet and also not listen at all.
    • striking 4y ago
      The way this is phrased makes it sound unreasonably judgmental, all stick and no carrot. If anyone had spoken to me like this at 18 I'd have been furious. There's not a word of how you might help the kid be less of a hermit, lose less friends, find a job, take care of themselves. Just "some pressure". Who do you think is responsible for the kid being the way they are? Thanks for prefacing it with a warning, I'm wishing I hadn't disregarded it.
      • xeromal 4y ago
        > There's not a word of how you might help the kid be less of a hermit, lose less friends, find a job, take care of themselves. I understand your comment and I just want to say that my comment is assuming we're past that point that you're talking about. I didn't want to write an article. Some kids can be stubborn. Anecdote: My great grandma tried that with my great uncle (all carrot) and he lived in her basement playing videos games until he died of a heart attack. I thought he had the best life because he got to be lazy, but it didn't server him very well. The end. Being a pushover and being considerate is a very fine line that is easy to fuck up.
        • striking 4y ago
          I'm not saying you should only give out carrots, either. I just think assuming the responsibility lies on the kid to behave correctly doesn't make sense.
    • 4y ago
  • bpodgursky 4y ago
    If the 18 year old is not self-supporting (ie lives at home, does not pay own expenses) the parent has every right to make restrictions on how the child spends their time.
    • dragonsky67 4y ago
      Nope, no and never.. They are an adult person, not a thing you own. Certainly you have the right to expect some participation in the household, chores, standards of cleanliness, safety, noise etc, just as you would any other person living under your roof (boarder etc). You no longer have the right to define their schedule, gender, religion or personal preference. In short they have the right to make their own mistakes, you can try to guide, but you can no longer enforce, beyond inviting them to leave your home. I would suggest that you may want to compromise and keep your ability to influence and guide, rather than giving them the boot and forcing them into the world.
  • refurb 4y ago
    Exactly. They are an adult so should be self-sufficient and support themselves. If said 18 year old has the money to live on their own and play video games, all the more power to ‘em! But seriously, the computer isn’t the issue. Kid needs to start pulling their own weight or they’re going to be in for a rude awakening.
  • daenz 4y ago
    >no right to enforce If you want to go down the "no right" path... Assuming the adult(child) is not contributing financially to living expenses, the child has no right to an internet connection, electricity, room & board, usage of any equipment that they do not own, etc. So while the parent has no right to tell their adult child what to do with their time, the adult child has no right to free resources.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • lowbloodsugar 4y ago
    Flip side, parents don't have to provide room and board, or power. And if it is their computer, they don't have to provide access to it.
    • bearmode 4y ago
      And that would make them an atrocious parent.
      • lowbloodsugar 4y ago
        A major aspect of parenting teenagers is about establishing boundaries and instilling an appreciation of consequences. I was simply pointing out that if the adult teenager plays the "it's my computer" / "it's my life" card, then the parents have cards they can play. Letting a child, adult or otherwise, play video games 8 hours a day, is not going to have a positive outcome for the child. I have great sympathy. We were very permissive parents and our kids were not in a good space, mid-teens. We now have much better relationships with our kids, and they with each other. Fortunately we could afford counseling, coaching and group coaching. Establishing boundaries and consequences was step one.
  • lawkwok 4y ago
    If the child is really an adult, they should contribute to the house like one. They don’t get a free ride of autonomy without the responsibility.
• EddieDante 4y ago
  I'm not a parent, but I've been in this kid's position. I didn't have a computer at 18, and I certainly didn't have internet access. So if I wasn't at work or at school I'd hang out at the public library or hide behind books at home. I did this because I had learned that nobody actually gave a shit about me as long as I stayed out of their way. They didn't want me around, and weren't interested in how I felt or what I thought as long as "did my part" to raise my brothers and didn't drop out of school, get a girl pregnant, or murder my brothers or classmates. It was plain that I wasn't welcome in the society around me, and I had come to decide that society didn't deserve me. There's a discussion on r/menslib that touches on this at <https://teddit.net/r/MensLib/comments/vucpf1/boys_need_help_with_selfesteem_too/?sort=new https://teddit.net/r/MensLib/comments/vucpf1/boys_need_help_...>. This comment at <https://teddit.net/r/MensLib/comments/vucpf1/boys_need_help_with_selfesteem_too/ifeswli/#c https://teddit.net/r/MensLib/comments/vucpf1/boys_need_help_...> is particularly relevant: > So, as you say, the question is: did society create the computer kid by ignoring them, or did the computer kid disregard society because computers were more interesting? > Both, possibly. But there's no smoke without fire. If you force a kid into solo, insular hobbies and to find their own ways to connect to things without the opportunity for those things to be other people, you really can't complain decades later that he's socially inept. I felt forced to find ways to entertain myself because I grew up without friends, was emotionally neglected, and never figured out how to make friends as a kid because my parents figured that I was somehow "smart enough" to not need help with social skills. It wasn't computers for me; it was books, heavy metal albums, and console gaming. You're not going to fix this "addiction" without first confronting the root causes. Chances are this kid was emotionally neglected, and they're using the computer to cope.
  • eushebdbsh 4y ago
    we live in a SOCIETY
    • mrjay42 4y ago
      Well their comment was actually interesting, had you read it. It's one of the only ones so far, mentioning the fact of discussing with the 18 yo son, trying to find the cause(s) of his behavior. Most of the other answers are as stupid a "blablabla when I was 18 I had a fulltime job", good for you Jake, it made you into the pretentious adult applying one solution to everyone else problems and even worse giving those advice randomly to people on in the internet.
• chimineycricket 4y ago
  The parents should've taken action when this first started, not after it became a habit/addiction. Not that this helps you find your solution.
• hutrdvnj 4y ago
  Don't restrict his access, he is 18, you do more harm than good to go that way. Tell him that you are worried and offer him alternatives.
• Miner49er 4y ago
  Is the goal for the 18 year old to get a job or to socialize more, or what?
• LinkLink 4y ago
  As a kid coming fresh out of a similar phase at 18, now 22 I might be able to provide some insight from my self reflection. First off if your kid is medicated especially with high dose ADHD medication it is likely way over prescribed, and to deal with the literal mental overclocking storm the best way is to have an environment and stimuli you have complete control over, IE a computer in a room. Secondly as somebody else mentioned the child has likely been emotionally neglected, not only by their parents but by their peers. Its very hard to fit in these days and with social media it is overly apparent when you do not. Looking back the best thing that helped me claw my way out of the funk caused by this is most importantly that I wanted to, and secondly that my parents cared enough to try and involve me in social programs. One of the blessings of being young is that when you are forced into situations by your parents such as clubs or social circles, you have no need to justify being there. It sucks at first but it really helps. Also if theyre obese A health coach would be a great first step. If the young adult is defiant and very hard headed, forcing them to get a job will likely not work, but if theyre just soft getting them a job where they work with others is a great way to foster social intelligence. TLDR: If theyre from a rough and emotionally neglected background, be tender and encourage growth. If theyre from an easygoing and supportive background, be harsh and force them to grow.
• chefkoch 4y ago
  Get him a girlfriend.
  • EddieDante 4y ago
    What is OP supposed to do, take this guy down to the Girlfriend Store and have him pick one he likes off the rack? You know women don't actually work like that, right?
    • dragonsky67 4y ago
      You do know that there are places where you can rent them by the hour don't you?
      • EddieDante 4y ago
        Yes, I do. My father dragged me to one when I was 16 because he thought it was time I "became a man". I spent half an hour Holden Caulfielding the poor woman instead.
• slothtrop 4y ago
  That ship has sailed. This behavior did not start at 18. If parents are still confidently in a position they feel they can "parent" (doubtful), then one option is to create alternatives rather than mere restrictions, i.e. sign them up for extra-curriculars. Otherwise, unless this legal adult wants to change, they won't.
• b20000 4y ago
  an 18-year old is not a child.
  • etaioinshrdlu 4y ago
    You haven't met a lot of 18 year old from the last couple generations. Regardless of reasons, there appears to be a huge deficit of "growing up" in a large fraction of modern 18 year olds. Looking back, I was pretty much not where I should have been at age 18 either.
    • Rayhem 4y ago
      > Looking back, I was pretty much not where I should have been at age 18 either. I offer no conclusion and intend no oblique subtext, but is it not equally valid to suggest that, historically, we have expected too much of eighteen year olds? Particularly since we now know human brains don't usually "set" until the mid to late twenties.
    • cvccvroomvroom 4y ago
      Both sets of my grandparents were adults by 16. One set were starving Dust Bowl refugees who their parents could afford to feed (think modern day Somalia). The other had terrible foster and actual parents they had to escape. When times are easy and in the absence of challenges, people people rarely mature as quickly or develop grit.
    • b20000 4y ago
      so you are going to micromanage your kids?
  • eurasiantiger 4y ago
    Depends. I know many in their 40s who are definitely more of a child than some are forced to be adults at 15.
  • cvccvroomvroom 4y ago
    The ones in the US now are often children until 26 or so. YMMV. I speak from extensive experience interacting with college and non college graduates across the generational ranges (21 to 60+) in professional and personal settings. Also, including people from Western and Eastern Europe, India, and China.
• elzbardico 4y ago
  No. Should have done this years before when kid was an actual kid, not a young adult.
• picsao 4y ago
• Karsteski 4y ago
  How about just spend some time with the person...
• popotamonga 4y ago
  i rerouted his computers connections to a linux box that adds a random 100-1000ms delay on packets and limits bandwidth. I guess we have bad internet kid, maybe if you get a job we can afford better internet. It's ok he'll never find out
  • Group_B 4y ago
    lol
    • popotamonga 4y ago
      it actually works, now he goes out with friends and stuff, before was 12h/day stuck playing LoL
• Shadonototra 4y ago
  Try to get interested to what he is doing, talk to him, that way you can mention to him some cool stuff he can do with a computer like programming, even gamedev He found an escape with computers, he found friends probably playing online, don't restrict that to him Reading books 9h a day or staying on your computer 9h a day is the exact same
• solarmist 4y ago
  Removing computer time won’t help without replacing it with something else. What are they proposing he do with his time instead?
• stevieb89 4y ago
  I was like this and went on for years. I personally have always had problems with social anxiety. Go join a jujitsu club and go with him/her and build their confidence. Don’t restrict them as they’ll just double down and at the end of the day they are who they are and they are 18 and very unlikely to listen to their parents until they are way older.
• luhego 4y ago
  Someone who is 18 is already an adult. Trying to enforce restrictions to an adult will only generate pushback and resentment. At that age, it is too late. You can let him play and live that way or you may try to fix it. The later will only cause discussions and fights.
  • millzlane 4y ago
    And before you know it, your 31 year old man child is still sitting in the basement and you're still buying their games.
    • bluefirebrand 4y ago
      Surely there must be a line you can take between letting them use their free time how they want, and enabling them to never need to do anything else. What my parents did with me when I was 18 is: I could love at home rent free if I was enrolled in classes at university, or I could start paying rent. Frankly, I don't see much of a problem with someone staying at home into adulthood, many cultures do that already. However the caveat is usually they have to contribute to the household, either with rent or housework or whatever. I don't see that as a problem.
    • throwaway5959 4y ago
      So the trope goes at least. I wonder how many cases are actually like that though.
      • pertymcpert 4y ago
        Anecdotally, one of my childhood friends turned out like this. He scraped by doing a worthless game design degree before moving back home and staying there AFAIK. I think the root cause was mental, but none of us (his old friend group) knew how to help.
    • luhego 4y ago
      There are multiple ways to try to stop this behavior. I will tell you the ways that didn't work for my parents. Turning off the internet, cutting the electricity off, hiding the PC or consoles, knocking the door at night asking if I am playing or studying. They annoyed me so much that I stopped playing for a while, got a job and moved out from my parents house at the first opportunity. Now, I continue to play as before but no longer talk to them. If that is the outcome the op friend is trying to accomplish then ok.
• lwansbrough 4y ago
  I had a full time job at 18. Probably time to give them the ol' ultimatum.
• ejb999 4y ago
  If my kid was spending 8+ hours a day on the computer, it would tell me they don't have enough to do - and should have a job. Stop buying things for 18 year olds - including clothes and other necessities other than the absolute basics (assuming they live at home) - 8 hours per day free time means they have enough free time to get a job and pay their own way. As a parent of 4 successful kids - all now grown - leaving them wanting more than you provide them for free - that they then have to work and pay for themselves, can do wonders.
  • corrral 4y ago
    I don't plan to let mine have their own cell phones (we'll probably get a dumbphone for them to share when they go out places or for their friends to call them, as they get a bit older) until they can pay for the phone and plan themselves. If they stop paying for the plan, I'll lock the MAC out of our wifi. Can't pay for it, not ready for it. 8 year olds shouldn't have a smartphone. [EDIT] Just to back up your "if you can't pay for it, you don't get it" approach, that is. Strong agreement. Risky perks like Internet access must be earned. As for video games, the Switch is nice because you can easily physically remove it to somewhere else without having to unplug a bunch of stuff. Switch isn't there = no video games right now. Switch is there = video games are OK. Zero monitoring required.
    • larrik 4y ago
      This was my plan too, but when they hit middle school and are literally the only kid without a phone, and it is the difference between being invited places vs not, it just doesn't work.
      • corrral 4y ago
        Depends a lot on the school. Locally, in public schools, half or more of kids have their own smartphone by fourth grade. The situation at at least some private schools is very different. Low rates of ownership up until 8th grade or so. Helps that some of the private schools haven't gone batshit insane and started letting kids carry their phones around with them all day, like, inexplicably, all of the public schools have.
• Moldoteck 4y ago
  Aside from what others said, is the environment where he live good enough for outdoor activities? Like parks, public sport playgrounds, bicycle lanes, lake/river across the city and so on? Because if not, you can't do much. If yes, the best option would be spending some time together outdoor or having some interesting experiences together (climbing, tenis...).
• drooby 4y ago
  I was once this kid.. So from that perspective I can say… the internet and video games were very much filling a void in my life. It took spiraling into deep depression and thoughts of suicide to realize I needed to make the change myself. I suspect any degree of forceful action wont work sufficiently. Find out what this kid wants out of life, actually get to know them, something my parents never really did. And this might mean asking to play video games with them. Once you know what they want, what they truly want, you can help provide the tools and guidance for achieving those things outside of a television or computer screen. Making the effort to actually connect with the person before suggesting an alternative lifestyle is key. That being said, this person is a young adult and many people live happy lives spending lots of time in front of a screen.
  • mikkergp 4y ago
    Agree with everything above. I would also say, I spend more than 9 hours a day on my computer. Sure, it's my job, but I'm curious what "healthy computer habits" means in a world where this person will very likely be expected to spend 9 hours a day on the computer for their work. Unhealthy computer habits as a teenager are what made me able to get a job in this field without a degree. Certainly some of this was unhealthy for me, and 9 hours a day playing video games can be problematic, but ultimately I went from spending 9 hours a day in front of a computer to.... spending 9 hours a day in front of a computer.
  • xboxnolifes 4y ago
    I feel like this advice is the best that I've skimmed through here. I am still this kid (though now older and working). All the people calling to just unilaterally cut all computer access make me wonder if they themselves even remember being 18 or lived similar to this way when they were that age.
  • hombre_fatal 4y ago
    > many people live happy lives spending lots of time in front of a screen. Though the screen with its infinite entertainment capacity can easily prevent you from finding what brings you actual fulfillment.
  • 4y ago
• brandon272 4y ago
  18 is an age where a person needs to be transitioning into adulthood and the behaviours and responsibilities that go along with that. That means less time on the leisure activities associated with the common teenager (like spending all day playing computer games and watching YouTube), and more time on choosing and investing time in a career or education pathway. And if that child is not getting the message that the time for that is now, then it's up to the parents to enforce that boundary.
• softcactus 4y ago
  Is the relationship with the parents good? If yes then maybe try taking him to the gym, going camping/on a hike etc. Once you realize that you can get dopamine from sources other than a screen it becomes easier to break that cycle of addiction. The actual root cause to me sounds like lack of fulfillment or maybe social anxiety. You can't just take away the computer if you don't have anything to replace it with.
• ilamont 4y ago
  Easy to understand consequences. For instance, my 17 year old once let his friend drive our car. He lost driving privileges for a week. Did not happen again. For excessive computer use, the 18 year old looses access to home-cooked meals, driving the car, money, laundry, etc. You could also tie it directly to the computer, such as limiting wifi or phone connectivity if usage goes above a certain level.
• kleer001 4y ago
  There's not enough information here to help nor is there any leverage OP (or really the parents) could use to change their behaviour without threatening their relationship with the kid. If it is an addiction like behaviour the person needs to see the negative impact their addiction has on their life and what they love before they are willing to change. I bet this kid had free access to screens since they were very little. Why doesn't this kid have a job? Why doesn't the kid have a social life or other responsibilities that takes them outside? Are they special needs, physically or mentally? Are they being solely supported by their parents? It sounds harsh, but tell your relative "The horse has long left the barn."
• ergonaught 4y ago
  There is no such thing as an 18 year old child. Either let them decide for themselves because they're an adult, or kick them out so they live on their own and decide for themselves because they're an adult, but in either case, they decide for themselves because they're an adult. Hint: they decide for themselves, because they're an adult.
• lowbloodsugar 4y ago
  Charge rent.
• sevenf0ur 4y ago
  Instead of focusing on computer use, have your relatives set up some rules to continue living at home and largely letting go. This could mean staying enrolled in courses or working a set number of hours in a job. Spending all day being unproductive is a warning sign so bring up the option of therapy.
• causi 4y ago
  Spending 9+ hours a day engaged in escapism is a form of self-medication. You must address the problem(s) causing them to feel the need to self-medicate.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• ziddoap 4y ago
  No context given, how do you expect reasonable answers? Just some things that would majorly influence what the appropriate actions would be: 1) Does the 18 y/o (an adult, by the way!) have a job already, and this is how they spend their free time? 2) Have the family tried the revolutionary tactic of talking to each other about their concerns? 2a) If so, what were the results of the conversations? 3) Is there other influencing factors (e.g. social anxiety, other underlying medical conditions, etc.) that aren't being addressed? 4) Did the behavior start recently? If so, what triggered the change? If not, why is it suddenly a problem? 5) What is the end goal? Have them move out? Have them be more physically fit? Contribute more to the household? Edit: Reading through some of these comments is disheartening. It sounds like a bunch of managers figuring out the best ways to discipline an employee rather than parents trying to foster healthy relationships with their kids and encourage healthy lifestyles. Being a parent requires effort, not just stripping your kids of every luxury or slightly positive aspect of their life until they become the model robot/employee.
• diegof79 4y ago
  A 18yo is not a child, do not to treat him/her as one. The violence of taking stuff away and the lack of conversation, is more problematic than the screen time. Have one (or many) respectful conversations about screen time addiction. Every addictive habit has a feedback loop of "Trigger/Routine/Reward". Talk with her to change some parts of that cycle. For example, instead of watching anime alone, it could be social -in person- activity with friends (same reward, different routine). What is the trigger for these activities? Perhaps this person is depressed, and the depression is the trigger for that routine (even if is not that rewarding). In that case, ask for professional help. Summary. Be creative, patient, and *listen*.
• braingenious 4y ago
  Just to make sure that I have this straight: The parent didn’t know how to successfully influence this individual, you also don’t know how to influence this individual, so you’re appealing to strangers on the internet for advice about how to forcibly change an adult’s behavior? I doubt you’re going to find any truly applicable advice about forcing this person to behave the way you want them to here. You’re talking about an individual human adult, not some theoretical cookie cutter “18 year old.” > The parent has tried locking the computer in a different room… This is the strategy that I use to keep my cat from eating all of his treats. I have never considered treating a human adult in such an infantilizing way. Considering the fact that you’re playing a game of internet telephone to figure out how to modify behavior that you don’t like, I’d suggest helping this adult get away from his or her parents. Or at the very least, ask yourself why you are fixated on this particular behavior and why you feel entitled to eliminate it. You didn’t ask “How can I help make this person happier or more successful?” or “How can I improve communication with this person?”, you asked “How do I stamp out this behavior that my relative finds distasteful?” If your family member boils their relationship problem with their child down to a single negative behavior, it’s likely that there is a mutual disdain that’s much, MUCH worse than gaming. If the parent isn’t interested in addressing underlying issues, then the solution is to help that adult to move out!
  • 1123581321 4y ago
    Asking the Internet for ideas can work when the respondents can suggest new things or approaches, and the asker can evaluate their usefulness in light of their contextual knowledge of their situation.
    • braingenious 4y ago
      I agree about the value of the internet. It’s amazing that people can ask questions in general and share knowledge, and I am happy that it exists. Not really sure how that applies to my post though, but cheers!
      • 1123581321 4y ago
• millzlane 4y ago
  Start with wifi. It's 30 bucks a week to use. Tell them it starts in two weeks. That will give them enough time to make 20 bucks for wifi use. Start shutting off wifi during the 9-5 hours.
  • josephcsible 4y ago
    You want to charge your kids more to share your Internet connection than it would cost for them to buy dedicated ones of their own, and then you'd add insult to injury by not giving them full use of what they're paying for?
    • UncleEntity 4y ago
      People do this. After my second (or third, don’t remember) trip to the fine country of Iraq I was staying at my parents (wasn’t doing all that good in the mental state) and my step-dad decided to charge me rent. Fair enough I thought, I’m living there so this is perfectly reasonable, happy to help out. Turns out this was just a scheme to get me to move out when I was thinking it was permission to stay.
      • millzlane 4y ago
        For my kids, it's not about the money. It's about responsibility and opening your eyes to the reality that eveywhere you go you will be paying for things, and they only come to you when you work for them. And the day you came to me and told me you were going to move out. I'd take you to the bank and give you all the money back. I would be saving it for you for you to use for a down payment on a car to get to work, or get that cool place you want to live in.
    • millzlane 4y ago
      They were two different suggestions.
      • josephcsible 4y ago
        Okay, focus on just the first one then. How can you justify charging your kids more to share your Internet connection than your ISP charges for the whole thing? It seems immoral for parents to make a profit off of their kids, especially if the kids aren't financially able to move out yet.
• jordanpg 4y ago
  I'm so nervous about the horrible spirals possible on the modern internet that I think I will be grateful if my kids at 18 are wasting their days having relatively harmless and somewhat social fun. Hopefully they will be doing something more productive, but if it's just this, I'll be OK with that. 28, maybe less so. This seems to be the way of the world now.
• eurasiantiger 4y ago
  I was this kid because I wanted nothing to do with my abusive parents. Please don’t be an enabler.
• TYPE_FASTER 4y ago
  I have been known to turn off the internet using a variety of methods, ranging from using the NetGear parental controls that can be used to block content of various categories, to physically disconnecting it. If they figure out how to get around it, at least they're learning something.
• spoiler 4y ago
  This was me, albeit not when I was 18 due to existential problems and shit living situation, so I was forced to get a job around 17/18, but that's a bit off topic for this. But it was me for most of my teens, and to an extent still is today. Even after I found a job, I spent most of my free time online, and made lifelong friends; most of whom I've met many times in person. I even moved to London to be able to hang out more often in person. Often, extreme escapism can be ways of coping. Either coping because the parents haven't taught their children any coping mechanisms, or because they have childhood trauma that they're not processing (either due to a still traumatic environment, often caused by parents). Obviously, laziness exists, but contrary to popular opinion, I don't believe anyone who plays a lot of videogames is lazy because games often exert a lot of mental effort. There's also the possibility of addiction, but addiction is often a maladaptive coping mechanisms that has roots in traumatic childhood and is often a symptom of Complex PTSD. Sorry for kinda making a circular argument. So, anyway, my advice would be to—instead of forcing the child into stopping using the computer—get them into therapy. Therapists who deal with children of abusive narcissistic parents is my recommendation; narcissism in the family is incredibly insidious, especially to children. It's often impossible to spot from the outside due to the narcissists false self they present to the rest of the world.[0] On a more positive note, spending so much time watching anime, "playing games", and hanging out in various creative online communities sparked my interest for software development. My care giver called it "playing video games" too, but I was actually writing my own visual roleplay software used by a few hundred people (not much I know, but it was a niche community and it felt as an achievement in my teens). Obviously, I played games too, but the point I'm trying to make is that maybe the parents can't even tell the difference, lol. This is all from personal experience and it's very anecdotal, though. [0]: https://narcissistfamilyfiles.com/2016/04/22/raised-by-narcissists-why-you-cant-afford-the-wrong-therapist/ https://narcissistfamilyfiles.com/2016/04/22/raised-by-narci... https://narcissistfamilyfiles.com/2020/04/30/5-things-children-of-narcissists-wish-everyone-would-stop-saying/ https://narcissistfamilyfiles.com/2020/04/30/5-things-childr... The narcissistic family files websites is a morbid treasure trove on anyone who wants to educate themselves. If people are morbidly curious or this resonates with them, I also recommend checking out Dr Ramani's YouTube channel, as well as potentially checking out her healing programme. Additionally, look for a support group of you think you might have been exposed to narcissism in childhood. I'm also available to talk if you have no one else to talk to that "gets it" but I'm not an expert and I'm still struggling/recovering myself, so I can't give and sound advice, but I can at least offer compassion. It gets better; you just gotta believe in the process.
• fiftyfifty 4y ago
  When my 3 kids were teenagers (though younger than 18) I had an Asus Router that had pretty good access controls, I assume most Asus Routers still have the same controls. You could actually limit internet access by MAC address to certain times of day. For all of my kids' devices (phones, video game consoles, computers) I found their MAC address in the table in the router management website and limited the devices internet access to just a couple of hours a day that we agreed the kids could have screen time. For the most part it was easy enough to figure out which device was which, for a couple I had to do a little experimenting like just cutting off MAC addresses while they were playing a game until I heard yelling (; I agree with the sentiment here that this is no substitute for parenting and having an actual conversation with your kids. But it is a tool that you can use to enforce you're rules. I caught my boys on multiple occasions playing video games late on school nights after we had gone to bed, and this was after we had discussed with them not playing games on school nights. Shutting down their internet access at the router put an end to the problem and grades came back up fairly quickly after that.
• cstrahan 4y ago
  Make not being in front of their computer more enticing (unless you want to pursue the alternative: coercion). If not in front of their computer, what would they fill their time with? What would they do, if only they didn’t have some other roadblock — and what exactly is stoping them? I know for me at that age, the computer represented a means for endless intellectual stimulation (between the endless depth and breadth of software dev, 3D modeling, mastering/exploiting game mechanics, etc). Books on their own held no value to me, as I’m interested in doing — not merely rote memorization — so you couldn’t have paid me enough to sit with my nose in a book all day. My other “options” weren’t really options at all. I had crippling anxiety, so going out with (or making) friends was not a very appealing idea, when I could instead get lost in my own thoughts without assuming any risk. Does their child have similar challenges? If so, maybe address that first. Help them discover and unlock activities that, perhaps with a bit of initial work on their part, will be every bit as satisfying (if not more so) than sitting in front of a glowing rectangle all day.
• kaz-inc 4y ago
  Get them into programming. I spent hours a day on the computer playing games when I was 18, then I got into programming. Making games is more fun than playing them, I only worry I forget what fun means to my audience. Instead of criticizing what your kid is doing on the computer, spend time engaging with them and participate in their hobbies with them. At 18, the kid will leave the house soon, and if you have things to talk about/do together over the internet, you might have a better relationship with your child.
• larrik 4y ago
  There's a lot of differing opinions here, but there's something that's important to note: Playing video games feels like progress. It gives you all the satisfaction of a job well done, without actually providing any benefit whatsoever. Finishing a tv or anime series can have this affect as well. It can be difficult to break free of that and direct energies towards actual productivity.
• chazeon 4y ago
  I would say it would be better if the 18-year-old could redirect energy to some meaningful stuff, e.g., learn to program. I remember I came to college and spend even more time a day to struggle Python. It then open me up to a lot of other opportunities later.
• cvccvroomvroom 4y ago
  No. Turn off their internet between 11 pm and 7 am.
• sys_64738 4y ago
  18yo is an adult who can tell you to pound sand.
• shishy 4y ago
  I spent more time than that around that age and everything was fine. Not saying it's always fine but more context would give you better answers here. What games are they playing? Anything competitively? What anime are they watching? Do they talk to friends / discuss them online? Do they get excited by it? Your friend could try to engage with them around their kids interests instead of taking them away and forcing other things that may not be of any interest and just stress their relationship. Maybe it was a lot but I turned out fine... in my case I was playing DotA / TF2 competitively at the time and so I learned a lot of transferable skills (that come to anyone that competes at a reasonable level), even though "I was in front of the computer for a long time", which is exactly how my parents would have described it. I watched movies and anime a lot in "front of the computer" but I had communities online to discuss them and engaged with them deeply (i.e. not just a mindless activity). Here I was lucky that I had friends to talk to / watch with. It all depends really and I would push back to understand if their child's time on the computer is actually wasted. Also, 18 year old isn't really a teen anymore... basically an adult! For the record I don't spend that much time these days but my interests just sort of shifted as I grew older naturally to other things, but the way the post is phrased just makes me wonder if it's actually a bad thing...
• namecheapTA 4y ago
  This is almost not a child question but a question about any friend/person you care about. They're old enough that just setting restrictions is going to make them replace one unhealthy habit with another if the underlying issue is not fixed. Is it really better if you forcibly take away the computer and they replace it with going to pool halls all day? If I had a friend that was wasting their life away, I'd try to find out what they were interested in doing in this decade or 5 years of their life and then I'd try to help them and motivate them to begin on it. You'd then probably have to actively try to help along the way because they probably don't have the skills yet to push through at every single minor roadblock they might hit. Basically you'll have to repeat this motivation/help hourly, then daily then weekly for a long time. "People discount motivational speeches because it doesn't last. Well, neither does bathing and that's why we recommend it daily." -zig ziglar
• rasz 4y ago
  carrot: sex, get him a one time babysitter stick: sell the computer, require rent
• t-3 4y ago
  Introduce him to some girls. Hormones will get him out of the house. Other than that, tell him to get a job/start charging rent.
• WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  Wow, some of the comments on this are frankly disturbing. Here is my two cents. If you are worried about how someone close to you is doing, my advice is to sit down with them and have a chat. Explain to them why you are worried and how you feel. Let them talk to you about how they feel and why they do what they do. Try to be genuinely useful. If you think your kids are being a bit lazy, could contribute more, are genuinely worried about the impact their hobby has on their social life and wellbeing or simply expect something different, well, letting them know exactly what it’s all about always seems a good start. It’s funny because I wrote basically the same advice in a thread regarding relationships with customers and management just a week ago. Seriously people should talk to each other more before jumping to action.
• orwin 4y ago
  Just take time with the kid? I'm not a parent. I was however very involved with popular education (youth camp counselor, science camp counselor, association "the small resourceful" (probably poor translation, but w/e). Unengaged kids are unengaged because no one tries too engage them (nice repetition here). Because this is tiring to seemingly always talk to a wall and get nothing in response. But you never really talk to a wall. The correct way to go through that, as i learned, is to honestly talk to them in a safe place for them. I know "safe place" seems politically incorrect because of this weird cultural battle in the US, but for teenagers this is a real thing, and also is not really a place but rather a mix time and an atmosphere that you should be able to set. It won't change their attitude, but you will get more honest responses, and they will at least try to play nice. Ask the kid if he wants to try a new hobby. Any solo sport where the culture is positive and engaging, like most sailing/river sports, but also rock climbing or trail running (i'm not sure if its called that). You probably have sport camp for adults in your country where they let the participant in relative autonomy and just teach him the basics. My favorite would be hydrospeed, catamaran, rock climbing and kayaking (both river and sea, sport in river, guided roaming at sea), but i have not yet tested every existing sports, only a dozen. Surfing/parasailing/windsurfing might take too much time to engage with. Another way, and my father taught me that early, is to bring them to your job or to your hobbies. (personnal anecdata was useless, too precise and removed). If you can, it might help? This i am not 100% sure, because it only work if you're a parent, and the only anecdata i have are me and my siblings (worked for the 3 of us). The safe place though, it worked 100% of the time.
• undersuit 4y ago
  I got to live alone for days at a time when I was 17 finishing high school. I'd play Dark Age of Camelot on my 28k modem and browse Slashdot. But whenever my mom or dad was able to return home they'd make me go outside with them. Hikes, bike rides, and walks. They'd never outright push me alone out of the house but I'd sometimes walk down the street to hang out in the public libraries computer lab with school friends. Start small and then escalate to cord cutting, but be resigned to them playing Runescape on a public machine regardless.
• awareBrah 4y ago
  If they live in a pretty typical North American suburb where a car is required to do anything it is a pretty inevitable outcome for most kids. When you literally can’t do anything without getting your parents to drive you somewhere, you turn to the computer. At this point the habit is hard to break.
• synicalx 4y ago
  IMO 18 isn't a kid or even really a teenager any more, here in Australia you can live fully independently the second you hit 18. Point being; if this person wants to play games 8 hours a day then that's their prerogative BUT as they're an adult the parents are now under no obligation to fund that lifestyle. > The parent has tried locking the computer in a different room, which works, but it lacks nuance. This makes me think that it must be their computer? If so then they can just change a password or two and boom - problem solved.
• krnlpnc 4y ago
  Some ideas: * Ask about non computer interests and support the heck out of them * Ask about career and life goals and support the heck out of them * Help them buy a car if they need one * Require a small amount of rent each month so they need to hold a job. Bonus points for saving this rent money and gifting it back to them when they eventually move out on their own. * family therapy could be a good option if communication is difficult or strained It’s less about strict limits on computer time and more about not enabling the behavior and providing support and guidance towards more responsibility and independence. Also, if they are self sufficient and thriving then how they spend their time shouldn’t matter.
• sigmaml 4y ago
  Firstly, not many kids and young adults are capable of assessing and understanding what they "truly want". Secondly, someone "truly wanting" something does not always make that "something" good or correct. When I was an adolescent myself, there were several things that I "truly wanted", which would have led me down paths of ruin. Thirdly, engaging the adolescent / young adult in productive ways - that don't necessarily need computers - is one thing that I have seen to be demonstrably beneficial. This involves a certain degree of interaction with them and doing things together. All the best!
• sombragris 4y ago
  Not a parent, but I was once that guy. He might be depressed, so some therapy might be in order. He's 18 year old, so he's an adult. Taking stuff he owns from him is not good. But the parents can take whatever they own from him, even the right to live at their parent's home. So, the best course of action (in addition to explore some therapy for him) might be for the parents to negotiate with their son from a position of strength. If he doesn't like what is being suggested to him, he's free to get a place to live by himself. His home, his rules.
• loquor 4y ago
  I too was like this kid not so long ago. Here are some perspectives. 1. THE CAUSE - How is he doing academically? I was doing really poorly because of lack of support, and to suppress that frustration I would try to stifle it with games, anime etc. So do consider that possibility that its a response to an emotional problem and not a deliberate decision. They may not want to indulge in media consumption all day, and it may merely be a way to reduce their friction against the world and themselves. 2. THEIR BACKGROUND - Some of the responses here suggest kicking out the kid as they're a legal adult. If my parents were to suddently ask me to step up massively at 18 and did so using force, I would resent it tremendously. Because since I hit my teens, they had long abdicated the role of supporting any personality development activity for me. So I would directly attribute my inabilities to them. Some of you would be aghast reading this, like how could an "18 year old adult" claim this. That's because I'm not American, there was a genuine lack of such opportunities during high school because all was forfeit at the altar of college exams. I actually still resent it a little that they didn't enroll me in something like the (Boy) Scouts, or a karate class, or a swimming class etc. i.e. avenues where I could get out and grow a little as a person. In hindsight, I've recognized that ny parents are people too with shortcomings, and I shouldn't blame them for everything because I can. That would be foolish and myopic. However, my point is that the parents were responsible kid's upbringing and environment growing up, so the resulting kid they have at 18 is their creation. (Americans wouldn't agree, I'm sure some Asians who grew up middle/upper-middle class would.) So its not fair to pin it all on the child. Punitive measures may be a bad idea. I much prefer what /u/WastingMyTime89 has suggested below, to sit down with your child regularly so that they open up about their issues and problems. In any case, opportunities for the kid to get out would be a great idea, both by themselves or with their parents. 3. GLOBAL TRENDS - I assume the kid is a male. I've observed the same phenomenon happening with a male cousin personally, wherein a boy doesn't grow into a being a young adult very well, and instead retreats into his room and anime/games/porn. I think Warren Ferrel's work might be a good start. It might be good to take a birds eye viee of the whole thing and be informed by other individuals ans how they self-improved. P.S. of course, the kid in question may be quite different from what I've described. But if they are the trying-but-struggling type, you could give him a book called 12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson. It seems to have been fantastically effective for and well-received by many many young men. My 2 cents.
• jiveturkey 4y ago
  Find time to DO something with the kid. Sports league, rock climbing, that kind of thing. Try to find things where they will find a peer group of other 18-20 somethings that they can bond with, and you can then go about your business.
• throwaway9271 4y ago
  There are a lot of people in this thread who don't have any idea what it's like to be 18 these days, especially in the US. I'm in my mid twenties and most of my generation is anxious or depressed, if not passively suicidal. The safety net has been dismantled. The planet is burning. Upward mobility seems like a thing of the past. If you don't want to listen to the kid, at least let them lie flat.
  • UncleEntity 4y ago
    > The safety net has been dismantled. The planet is burning. Upward mobility seems like a thing of the past. …and the Soviets are going to invade Any Day Now™.
  • Jaruzel 4y ago
    > The planet is burning. It has been for decades, people are just more vocal about it these days. > Upward mobility seems like a thing of the past. Swings and roundabouts; again every few decades this gets easier then worse. ... Live your best life; Try not to stress about stuff you have no ability to change.
• dragonsky67 4y ago
  I'm obviously missing something here. 18yrs old = Adult in most parts of the world. Is the problem that they are playing games, or is the problem that they are not supporting themselves and spending their time in an activity that you consider to be time wasting? At some point people become responsible for their own actions, this depends upon the person, but in most cases 18 is the age where they make decisions about sex, alcohol consumption (in most of the world) and most other activities participated in by adults. If this person (not child) is doing something you don't like under your roof then it's your responsibility as others have suggested, to talk to them like an adult and explain your concerns rather than start a war of attrition that you will almost certainly lose.
• Maro 4y ago
  Is this a new thing for the kid? If yes, then I'd try to figure out what caused it, eg. did they move to a new city, did s/he get rejected from college, bullied at school, rejected by a boy/girl, maybe s/he is gay, etc. Apart from talking to them as suggested by others in the thread, I'd try to channel it. Thing is, spending 8+ hours a day in front of the computer isn't really a big deal these days. Most people with high-paying jobs spend 8+ hours a day in front of the computer, plus another 2-4 hours on their mobile. (Myself included.) The trick is to make it productive. Are you sure they are just playing games and watching stuff? Are they not messing around with Linux or gcc or Visual Studio or Unreal Engine or Photoshop or whatever? So, what I'd do is, take them to the bookstore, go to the computer section, and buy them a bunch of books. C, C++, Javascript, cool stuff like Unreal Engine, plus whatever they want. If they don't want to go, just go and buy it, and put it in their room. Show them GPT-3 on OpenAI. Give them an AWS account. I don't know if it'd work, but it's worth $1000 to try it. If the kid can channel it into productive computing (programming, design, whatever), then this "addiction" is actually a huge gift, as they will be set for life. I would NOT try to lock the computer away, esp. at this age. That's like burning bridges between the parent and the kid. That's essentially treating the kid as an idiot who needs to be forced to do "the right thing". Thing is, the parent's intuition about this time being wasted may be wrong, but in any case that is not a good approach. It will just lead to the kid hating the parents, probably for life. Somewhat unrelated, 18 is a great age to get a job. I think most people/kids, once they figure out that a job comes with a paycheck, actually love to have a job. So, if they're not going away for college, try to help them get a part-time job, maybe like 4-hours a day as a start. I suspect after the first paycheck the kid will love it, and will want to make more money so s/he can move out and get rid of the parents.. - Personal context: tldr = spending a lot of time on the computer from an early age has resulted in far more positives than negatives for me, and has not impacted my life in a major negative way overall. If I could go back in time, in general I would not stop myself from spending so much time on the computer. I'm 41 now, but I spent a lot of time on the computer from age 7, probably 2-4-8 hours a day, depending on age. For me, it's always been like that, we had a Commodore-64 at home when I was 7 years old. I would play Pitstop [1] on it and type things into the BASIC interpreter. When I was a teenager, my parents were concerned about my computer time ("he should be out playing sports"), and they locked the computer (and TV) in various ways. Back then computer cases had a lock on them (with a key), so they did that, but that was easy to circumvent. So then they put a password on the BIOS, that sucked. Fortunately they used weak passwords so some of the times I was able to guess it. Locking away the computer when I was a teen was a (one of the many) spectacularly bad moves on my parents part, and was one of the reaons I barely talk to them. Thing is, I also played a lot of games, but I also spent all that time learning and understanding computers (I must have re-installed Windows and recompiled the Linux kernel 100s of times), pirating everything I could pirate (including books, which led to my life-long habit of reading and self-improvement) and trying it out, teaching myself programming (BASIC, then Pascal, then C/C++, etc) and that turned me into the person that I am today. All that time on the computer did not keep me from later becoming very active in sports (I've been doing triathlons since 2008, from sprint to Ironman distance, 38 races so far), I go to the gym 5-6 times a week, I average around 90 mins a day working out in some form. To be fair, in part to counter my time on the computer, my parents forced me to do various sports during my teenage years, althoughI resisted and sabotaged these efforts. But, again to be fair, the reason I can do the swim portion of the triahtlons easily is because they forced me to play water polo for a couple of years. I also became a car guy 5-6 years ago, so now I drive a Porsche 911, which I can afford because I have a high-paying job, which I have because there's very few things I can't do/accomplish/figure out on a computer, which is because I've been on it for ~35 years. For example, I manage a Data Science team/org now, but I still regularly help out when some sort of Java exception comes from deep in the stack or one of our ML endpoints goes down because there's some Linux issue on one of our EC2s; for me it's trivial because it's probably something I encountered when I was 17 and was messing around, for many others it's a hard-blocker. I still spend much/most of my time in front of a screen, because it's my job and even outside my job it's the default thing to do if I'm not (i) spending time with my family/kids (ii) working out/doing sports or (iii) driving around. Having said all this, I do think I missed out on a couple of things. I had my first girlfriend when I was 20, which is about 4-5 years too late, that sucks. I've never been very good with girls, which led me to have limited selection, which possibly led me to get married to the wrong person the first time around. The second thing, a bit related to this topic is, my parents, being from E-Europe, thought that kids should not get a job and should focus on their studies. So although I had silly / not-very-serious jobs since 16, the first real job I got was at 23 when I graduated. That is another miss, I've always felt I'm ~5 years behind in terms of life-maturity. [1] https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Pitstop https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Pitstop
• RalfWausE 4y ago
  Enroll him in the armed forces...
• faeriechangling 4y ago
  At 18, no he’s an adult he can buy a data plan and use the internet all day. You’re looking at the symptom and not the root problem by the way.
• deleted 4y ago
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• lleb97a 4y ago
  We had a family friend with this problem. Buying him a dog worked wonders, if such an option is available.
• deleted 4y ago
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• dusted 4y ago
  I used to be that teen, I wish I could be again, 9 hours of lovely me time per day.. now I get 30 minutes during the evening when I'm exhausted from work and family life. I'd say let them enjoy it while it lasts..
• rendaw 4y ago
  At 18 I was probably spending 9h+ a day on the computer, playing games and watching anime mixed with creative stuff. I wasn't depressed, and I don't look back and go "oh that was wasted time" or whatever. I can't believe every post here is so negative. If he's _actually_ depressed, is unable to make progress on life goals, can't go to school, can't get a job, doesn't have friends etc, then absolutely. But nothing like that is mentioned in the original post.
• t0bia_s 4y ago
  Usually kids reflect behavior of their parents. If we, as parents spent enormous time in front if screen (I guess that it's common among HN users), than we cannot expect different behavior from our children. It's about lifestyle.
  • opyate 4y ago
    I was glued to my PC in the nineties, while my folks read, played crossword, and talked to family on the phone. I guess we all get consumed by something which interests us. I'm lucky to have had a very balanced life. I had the geeky friends at school, and a whole mixture of friends via church. My dad was very sporty, so that rubbed off a bit on me: I participated in everything school had to offer (rugby, cricket, athletics); never any good, mind you, but there was always a C or D team that would me. My folks love caravan holidays, so we were away with the caravan club every second weekend, and the cherry on top were those 6+ weeks summer holidays by the riverside. We made plenty of friends this way, and had a variety of activities to occupy us (fishing, swimming, games, and the lone Double Dragon arcade machine in the canteen). But, when back home, I was very happy to switch on the old 486DX4 and tinker with Slackware and code Pascal or dual boot into DOS/Windows3.11 and tweak bat files so I can play Lemmings or something. Perhaps it boils down to offering our own kids as many opportunities as possible. Not forcing it on them, but participating with them and showing a genuine interest. E.g. we've turned our 5 and 9 year olds into avid hikers by not forcing the walking on them, but by calling it "treasure hunting" and incorporating geo-caching into the walking. (Their friends, when coming along, ask me to carry them after a while, haha). When we go camping, we pick car-free campsites where they can roam free, and we can trust them because we've done all the tricky stuff with them a few times before. Those are their favourite holidays. That said, being glued to a computer today is a whole different ball game, what with the various algorithms that keep folks engaged on social media and possibly in games. I don't know if I have an answer for this. (For our little ones, their tablets are managed by Google Family link, so no Youtube, and websites on Chrome and Play Store installs are approve-only.)
• Smithalicious 4y ago
  While an 18 year old is not as mature as we are, when you start talking about computer restrictions I think it's very important to realize that we're actually talking about an 18-year-old adult. Let the guy does what he wants, this is absurd! (fwiw I spent about that much time on the computer at that age and I turned out fine) EDIT: OP is sparse on details, if this is a "won't get a job, makes mommy pay for everything" situation then that does warrant some form of action, but then the computer is not the cause of the issue - someone who refused to get a job and spent 9 hours a day reading economy text books would still be a problem. There might be social anxiety or depression or some such at play - talk to the guy, be gentle, be supportive, seek professional help if it's really a serious problem. If the guy is in school you really just don't have a basis to hassle him about what he does in his free time. "My house, my rules" is the creed of authoritarianism parents, trying to dictate the life of an 18 year old will only foster resentment.
• bearmode 4y ago
  They're an adult... what on earth are the parents doing locking away another adult's computer? Time to let your kid make their own choices. The time for limiting screen time is long gone.
• Jaruzel 4y ago
  Putting it bluntly, the parents should have have been limiting screen time for this 'child' over 10 years ago. This problem didn't happen overnight. It's too late now to re-program the 'child', unless they themselves actually want to change. I'm sorry, but this is 100% a parenting fail. Source: I'm a parent of two 20-somethings.
• xtiansimon 4y ago
  > “18-year-old child” ?? Legally an adult. Which leads to the obvious question of adult responsibilities. Do they have a job? Other then that, what are this young adult’s alternatives? Outside activity may have costs they can not afford. Activities may be located far from home. Do they have adequate transportation choices? What are their friends doing? Are their friends online also? Or do they only have online friends? In which case they need community. Being online is a low-cost, easy option that’s hard to beat for a broke kid without a car. Finally, if you want someone to make better choices for how they spend their time, you might need to spend time with them. Find things to do together. Invest your time in learning what interests them, and feed their curiosity. (Just don’t make it about guns, please.) Yes. It’s possible, but short of kicking them out of the house, what can you do? Besides, as I recall there are not many things 18 yros do which aren’t to excess and prolly not good for them—-which beggars the question, is this behavior so bad?
• lukaszkups 4y ago
  If it's possible for your relative - let him/her ask if there's anything useful he/she would like to in front of his/her computer - let it be programming, translations, graphics - heck, even becoming a podcaster/youtuber and try to help him/her with that - it might turn into something useful for his/her career in the future.
• Graffur 4y ago
  As another point of view I will add my own experience. I spent a lot of time on my computer at 18. I didn't have a job. I turned out fine :)
• tomcam 4y ago
  First of all, I’m on your side and my heart tells you that I would love the answer to be yes. But I would like you to consider it from another filter. The way I look at it is: no. If you think about what you’re asking, what you seem to be looking for is a way to manipulate someone’s brain so it does something they don’t want to do. Literal mind control. The only likely ways to get what you want are to sell a life outside at least partially outside of the computer so compelling is that someone with your genes could be properly persuaded, or to set an example for yourself so powerful that they would want to follow it voluntarily.
• nitwit005 4y ago
  What do you actually want them to do, instead of using the computer? I presume they have no job, and friends generally aren't available during the day due to school or work. There are activities that you can do during the day, but aside from taking a walk, they tend to require those un-available friends, or cost money.
• csense 4y ago
  TLDR: - It's unrealistic in today's world to say that Under No Circumstances Should Anyone Spend 9 Hours A Day On A Computer. - His/her lifestyle may be unhealthy, but it's not necessarily the computer usage. - External social realities may make it difficult or impossible to hang out with friends in real life. - "Failure to launch" is a real problem. Providing assistance to overcome obstacles is better than judgment and trying to force behavior change. - An actual "Doesn't want to launch" situation is unlikely. If it appears to be the case, it may be because he/she doesn't have a good enough relationship to feel comfortable discussing his/her actual plans. - It's possible this is a situation of "I want this, but I don't want to want this." In this case, technical measures may help, but they don't have to be particularly sneaky or hacker-proof. This sounds like it's written by a boomer or earlier generation. I'm rather surprised it's posted on HN, by someone who is apparently young enough to have been a child in the Internet age. In case you didn't get the memo, the world has changed. A substantial portion of the population, and a much more substantial proportion of this site's audience, spends the majority of their day on computers and the Internet. Spending time with your friends often happens on the computer today. In case you haven't noticed, for decades, kids have been losing the ability to meet up in person. Causes include "helicopter parenting," media-fueled concerns about kidnapping, fears of overzealous CPS cracking down on people for letting kids go places on their own, plus the Internet. The pandemic accelerated this trend a lot, especially for young people, as many schools were online-only for multiple semesters. The kid in question may not be a social butterfly. It's partly his/her personality and interests -- the local teens may not care about the same things he/she cares about -- and also, some people just end up as social outcasts through no fault of their own -- for example mild undiagnosed Asperger's / ADHD / autism may not be obvious to a person or their family, but it may make them behaviorally different enough to just subliminally "creep people out" and turn others away. The Internet can be a lifeline -- it may be much easier for him/her to find a place among its thousands, perhaps millions, of fractally nested communities based around every conceivable group and interest. Taking that lifeline away seems like a bad idea. An 18-year-old is legally an adult. Thinking of him/her as a child, or treating them like one, isn't going to accomplish anything worthwhile. Computer time isn't the problem. It's his/her free time and spending it how he/she pleases. If he/she was hanging out with friends, and they were playing baseball for 9 hours a day, and you wish they were playing basketball, guess what? You don't get a vote, and you're kinda a jerk if you say "You and your friends have to play basketball. Or else I'll find a way to stop your game." What may be a problem is failure to launch. Sit down and ask him/her, "Where do you see yourself in 5 years, or 10 years? What do you need to do to get there? What obstacles are in your way? How can I help?" If he/she is making progress toward a launch -- has a job and is saving up money, or is currently enrolled or in the process of applying to university -- then how he/she spends free time doesn't matter. Trying to impose limitations will just build resentment, damage the relationship, and possibly psychologically damage the son/daughter (see comment [1] for an example of how bad things can get if you go down this road). If they want to launch, but they're not making progress, ask them what obstacles they face and then really listen to the answers. In comparison to earlier generations, college is incredibly expensive relative to income. The process for scholarships and financial aid is complicated and confusing. Entry-level job postings may require experience. The application process for all three can be quite intimidating to an inexperienced adult. Not having a car is a crippling logistical challenge in many parts of the US. If they're not used to working, it can be a major life change causing severe anxiety. Offer help, but don't dismiss their concerns as "making excuses". If he/she doesn't want to launch, and is planning to live in your basement until keeling over at age 99, that's a different problem -- but I think this is unlikely. (It may take some patience and persistence to break through the shell and get him/her to talk about his/her plans -- I sense this relationship may be strained already.) If he/she doesn't want to spend so much time on the computer but can't control himself/herself, that's actually a problem where technical measures can help. The key is that he/she agrees (freely, without threats or incentives) to be blocked or limited -- it's a voluntary, self-applied tool to help with self-restraint. The technical measures don't need to be sneaky or utterly hacker-proof; they just need to put some extra steps into the process of screwing around when you shouldn't be. It's fine if he/she knows exactly what mechanism is in place and how to disable it, the point is to add extra steps to give his/her rational brain time to interrupt the monkey brain's "Video games fun!" with "Should I really be doing this right now?" One simple trick is pomodoro, just have a timer that goes off every so often and reminds you to check the time, and compare what you are doing to what you should be doing. This kind of self-control and self-discipline is hard to learn -- but this is actually an instance where it's better to be living with parents and unemployed. That way, the parents can help train the person's resistance to the siren call of the Internet, and the consequences of a lapse aren't as dire as losing a job or flunking out of college. Anyway, the point is that approaching the issue in an adversarial way may motivate him/her to move out, but it's not worth the price -- it'll damage the relationship, and possibly psychologically damage him/her as well. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32091676 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32091676
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• toldyouso2022 4y ago
  I'm esl and from phone, but this story is important. My best friend brother was in the same situation, 18, all day on pc, anime. People around him would tell the kid to do this or that. Thing is, if a kid is stuck, he doesn't know how to unstuck. He doesn't know how to do this or that thing that seems so easy to people with a place in society. So, on my specific indications(I'm truly a savior of the NEETs), the brother spent an afternoon with the kid compiling a resume and also subscribing him to various youth employment programs. A few months later the kid had a job thanks to that afternoon. Moral of the story: don't tell others what to do, help them do it, especially if they are kids.
• seattle_spring 4y ago
  I was like that kid. Turns out my parents were extremely emotionally abusive and it was my escape. Consider taking a look at the people in the kid's life, rather than his perceived misbehaviors.
• throwaway313313 4y ago
  If they are interested in computers, work with them to find an in-person (not online!) class at the local community college that they want to take and help them start taking classes they want to take. If they are interested in taking easy college classes, open up the college course plan PDF and search for all the classes with the words "Introduction", "Beginning" etc in the name. They might like taking a "History through Film" class where they get to watch movies for general education credits. Make sure to pick in-person classes. Using the college name and professor name, look for easy teachers on https://www.ratemyprofessors.com https://www.ratemyprofessors.com If they are in high school or want to go to college or are otherwise agreeable, sign them up for a tutor a few days week for math tutoring, English tutoring, general SAT or AP tutoring, whatever general subject they like or are willing to try, to get them out of the house and interacting with somebody. Find a tutor they like. Make sure they are happy with it and feel like they are learning something after a few classes. Talk to them about what their life plans are. Do they plan on getting a job? Do they want to eventually get their own place? Do they want to possibly buy a house some day? What do they plan on doing when their parents are gone? Take it a little bit at a time. Lots of people can't handle discussing too much about these topics at once. If you can get them active and out of the house, be happy about it, don't sweat them not having it all figured out, the vast majority of people don't. Discuss these subjects bit by bit as the opportunity arises. Another item which depending on the household wildly varies, definitely make sure they don't have their parents credit card (for basically living worry free and buying all of their online subscriptions and games at their parents expense). Don't do an allowance. Pay for chores, work around the house, and finishing various tasks.