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This thing is going to sell like hotcakes. The combination of single core CPU and graphics performance, device thinness, battery life in this laptop is unmatche

This thing is going to sell like hotcakes. The combination of single core CPU and graphics performance, device thinness, battery life in this laptop is unmatched. It’s funny how Apple came back from the worst the Mac has ever been to the best in a span of few years. Johnny I’ve doesn’t dictate things around Apple anymore but the silicone chips team now does.

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jjtheblunt 4y ago
autocorrect spelling error : silicone -> silicon
bluedino 4y ago
> the worst the Mac has ever been Which one was that?
- pavlov 4y ago
  The 2016 MacBook Pro was a turd. The butterfly keyboard would inevitably break. I went through several of these laptops. To add insult to the injury, this model's unique innovations were "Touch Bar" and "no ports"... I've been buying Macs since 2000, and the 2016 MBP is definitely the worst Mac I ever had. It was enough to drive me to purchase a Surface Book as an alternative.
  - hardlianotion 4y ago
    The 16" Macbook pro I bought in 2019 has been a source of constant irritation to me - unexpected fan thrashing, overheating, the usual stuff - and the performance and low cost of the new M1-based MacBooks has done nothing to improve my mood.
    - xbar 4y ago
      I don't blame you. That "pinnacle" of hardware design is an Apple poop-bomb. I have one with 32GB that was provided by my employer. It is bad. I hate using it. The keyboard on it is bad, the performance is bad, and the glitchiness is deeply frustrating. I loved my 2015 Macbook Pro 15" that it replaced and wondered why I thought it would be any better. My M1 Macbook Pro 16 is a joy to me.
      - jamiepenney 4y ago
        I put an order in for a 14" one last night to replace my 2019 MBP, this makes me feel better about the price.
    - Pelam 4y ago
      Try customizing the fan curves to spin up at lower temps. Not much more noise over all if at all, but much more responsiveness.
    - unicornporn 4y ago
      > The 16" Macbook pro I bought in 2019 has been a source of constant irritation to me This. Worst Mac I've ever had to use.
    - AOsborn 4y ago
      Same situation with mine. Even had to have the battery replaced after showing errors, after a whole ordeal to have it covered under warranty. I suspect this was related to the constant overheating.
    - wildrhythms 4y ago
      I have one of these for work (employer-provided) and it is the worst machine I have ever used. The touchbar is useless. It's heavy and bulky as hell. Just watching a Youtube video or opening a page with some gifs causes the fan to spin up and sound like a jet engine. The dual fan situation was supposed to improve cooling, but it only made it LOUDER. Incredibly embarrassing to be in a quiet meeting room and accidentally open a slide deck with a gif for 2 minutes and have the machine ramp up its fans to maximum speed. Why?? Meanwhile on my M1 Air I can have the same content open + some Twitch stream + 3D map view open with no fan, no sound at all, and it runs great.
  - wombat-man 4y ago
    I refuse to buy a touchbar mac although some have been issued to me by employers. I remember when they came out they raised the price of the MBP for this "feature" that just kinda sucked. Ended up leaving my MBP closed 95% of the time and using a separate keyboard.
    - wildrhythms 4y ago
      This is why I bought a M1 Air instead of a Pro when it first launched. I don't know how some people can stand the touchbar. "But it can do so much!" Isn't the point of touch typing to never look at the keyboard? It never made sense to me.
  - kalleboo 4y ago
    In addition they made the battery smaller despite the CPU not really getting any more efficient so it got less battery life unless literally all you were doing was watching iTunes movies.
  - SenHeng 4y ago
    I'm grateful for the 'no ports' move. It really helped jump start moving everything on to USB-C. Yes, the implementation details are still being worked out. particularly how the mass manufacturers can cut cost while still the most wanted subset of supported features.
    - solarkraft 4y ago
      > Yes, the implementation details are still being worked out We're about 7 years into USB-C and I still had to do a ton of searching to find a dongle that does HDMI at 60 Hz, USB-A and charging (how crazy to want all that, right?!). I also had to buy a shady (AFAIK it violates the spec) extension cable to build a dock setup ("real" docks are in the hundreds of Euros). It cost me about 40€ to get back features I used to get for free and has reliability issues. USB-C is a blessing for charging, but I'm a bit disappointed by the ecosystem for the rest.
  - lloeki 4y ago
    Oh my, the 2018 one I have is a terrible piece of junk, notably the USB subsystem (overheats on one side, prone to interference, regularly resets which kills and connects to some device, may it be mouse, keyboard, or external display) and although I liked the touch of the butterfly keyboard, the arrow keys still trip me up (and of course the reliability) > "Touch Bar" The default touch bar UI is terrible, except for a few special cases (e.g Logic Pro / GarageBand sliders/knobs). I did see and try some hacks to customise it but they were quite brittle so I dropped off that train, but it kind of proved to me that there was something to it that could have been really great were it fully programmable for real, and that the actual execution was extremely subpar. > "no ports" If by "no ports" you mean USB-C only, I am really enjoying the 4x C port machines, and would rather not go back to mixed ports unless forced to. USB-A/B sockets just need to die.
    - unilynx 4y ago
      > except for a few special cases (e.g Logic Pro / GarageBand sliders/knobs). yeah that .. I enjoy it for quickly setting/sliding brightness and volume. And you can add a screenshot button to it which does not break focus so it allows me to screenshot things the keyboard cmd+shift+3/4 UI can't (ie context menus)
  - waynesonfire 4y ago
    Sheesh, did you skip the MBP 2015? That's the best one they ever made, even to this day. I've been using MBP 2015 since then and just recently "upgraded" to M1. The MBP 2015 is still a better machine, better screen and keyboard. I can type waayy faster on the 2015 with less errors and the screen is better on the eye strain. The whites on the M1 are BRIGHT. I don't need a flash light shining at my face. Turning down the "brightness" doesn't address the problem. That just makes the whole screen darker or but the whites are still as bright. I'm still learning the laptop, maybe there is a contrast setting. Oh, and the trackpad on the 2015 doesn't feel like sandpaper. On the M1, the tip of my finger is numb most of the day. Anyway, for such a fanboi and you skipped the best MBP. Bummer for you. I can't imagine going from 2015 to 2016 and being satisfied with that. I'd have returned it the same day.
    - whynaut 4y ago
      You'll definitely want to enable warmer colors
      - waynesonfire 4y ago
        I use that. Been toying with night mode, color filters, and even flux. It's still too extreme, though it helps with the whites the other colors look atrocious. I have just about identical settings on both models and comparing the two laptops side-by-side, the 2015 looks much better. I still have "vivid" colors but the whites are more grey. Must be a screen thing, some new IPS technology. I don't know. It's terrible.
        appletrotter 4y ago
        I feel like you might be noticing HDR. HDR supersedes your brightness settings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlAsAuBtmps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlAsAuBtmps
    - 0_____0 4y ago
      I'm not really that picky about era of MBP, honestly I'd be happy with any of them save for the era with the bad keyboards. But the 2015 vintage was certainly a good one. I have a late-2015 rMBP as my daily driver. I'm only now starting to run up against its limitations. USB-C, better 4K support, form factor, battery life, overall speed are things I'm looking forward to when I finally upgrade.
  - butterisgood 4y ago
    Hmm I did exactly the same thing. Apple refreshed my whole laptop after a keyboard break, and I have the Surface to my wife. I think we are both going to get these M2 MBAs next.
  - sgtnoodle 4y ago
    I am not generally an Apple user, but I had a 2012 MacBook pro for work for a few years, and it seemed pretty nice. I can't remember any complaints. That's while I was working at Google, though, so all I used it for was a web browser and SSH terminal.
- jclardy 4y ago
  Butterfly keyboard era. I have one as a work machine that sits around until I need VPN access. The keyboard is miserable, and the fans spin up when I open Slack. In contrast, my 14" M1 Pro is the best laptop I've ever used. Fans are inaudible, incredible performance, incredible keyboard/trackpad, battery is not a worry.
- deepGem 4y ago
  15”/13” MBPro with the Touch Bar and that horrendous keyboard.
- iamben 4y ago
  The last Intel Air (early 2020) is the worst Mac I've ever owned by an absolute mile. The fan is permanently on - it's like working on a hairdryer.
  - horsawlarway 4y ago
    Honestly - Pretty much every laptop Apple released from 2018 to 2021 was a complete turd. I have the 16 inch 2019 model (issued by work, I don't buy apple products) and it's... just not a good machine. It gets amazingly hot, the fans run ALL the time, the usb-c ports are flakey at best (frequently stop working after a suspend/resume cycle, or if you unplug while the machine is closed). It's got a shitty touch bar instead of function keys (although at least it reverted to a real esc-key, the touchbar only esc was literally a joke). It has frequent rendering glitches and artifacts. The battery life is bad (basically a given for how much power this thing is dumping right into my lap as heat). ---- Before the M line, I was about to go have a real fight with our IT department to get me issued literally anything other than another Mac. The last couple of models they've put out in the intel line are just genuinely bad machines, across both the pro and air lines.
    - iamben 4y ago
      Ugh, I forgot about the battery. I'm lucky if I get a couple of hours out of it. Horrible thing.
      - jamiepenney 4y ago
        90 minutes max for me. Awful machine.
        iamben 4y ago
        I spent months complaining to them about this laptop. I had an Air for 5 years(!) before this and it was a wonderful machine. For 2k I'd expected a decent machine - but I hate everything about it. Obviously Apple didn't care in the slightest.
        4y ago
- vishnugupta 4y ago
  The one they launched with Touch Bar. By far the worst keyboard I have come across, almost useless Touch Bar, no ports.
  - Jyaif 4y ago
    For me the Touch Bar wasn't just useless, it was actively annoying.
- rodgerd 4y ago
  Any of the 90s Performa models where processors were routinely crippled by having half-width memory buses on them.
dr_zoidberg 4y ago
M2 is not a single core CPU, albeit it does have stellar single threaded performance. As for having the worst Mac, it's quite probable they were nerfing their last x86 models on purpose to make the jump to Apple Silicon even more impressive. Remember the models that had inadequate thermals? Now magsafe is making a comeback?
- sokoloff 4y ago
  I read GP's as "combination of (single core CPU *plus* graphics) performance"
  - dr_zoidberg 4y ago
    Sure, that's why I mentioned it having stellar single threaded performance -- I figure out what they probably meant, but it's not what is written. And I've been seeing a lot of misinformation lately about many things (in general, and in tech in particular), and people buying that without questioning , which is why I jumped to "correct" this detail. The point about nerfing their last x86 models stands on its own though.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      When you multiply that out it becomes "combination of (single core CPU performance) and (graphics performance)", which seems clear enough and aligns well with your point. It's possible to read it as "combination of (single core CPU) and (graphics performance)", but since the first one isn't much of a benefit (other than possibly power), I think the other is the more natural reading.
- dean177 4y ago
  Read that sentence as “single core cpu performance and graphics performance” Rather than “a single core cpu. And graphics performance”
- stetrain 4y ago
  Seems like in 2016 Apple was developing thermal designs for Intel’s future promises which ended up being significantly delayed. And the Apple Silicon Macbook Air has no fan at all. This is what Apple wanted out of their laptops, and was clearly struggling to achieve it with Intel’s offerings in 2015-2020.
amelius 4y ago
> Johnny Ive doesn’t dictate things around Apple anymore but the silicone chips team now does. Then how come we never read about those hardware devs, and get only story after story about Ive? My guess: those hardware devs are just faceless pawns that get replaced as soon as they start having opinions about product design.
- joakleaf 4y ago
  So... the last 3-4 Apple events have had minute long segments with Johny Srouji presenting the Apple Silicon chips. He is Apple's senior vice president of hardware technologies. There is an interview with him in the Wall Street Journal here: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-chips-that-rebooted-the-mac-11650081649 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-chips-that-rebooted-the-mac...
- astrange 4y ago
  Ive doesn't even work at Apple anymore.
simonebrunozzi 4y ago
Long AAPL, you say? Or what else are you saying? I agree that Ive's influence will not be missed.
- dcolkitt 4y ago
  Aren't Macs basically a rounding error for the overall company?
  - boringg 4y ago
    And people don't need to replace iphones as much as they used to in the past... Still a formidable company don't get me wrong.
  - mproud 4y ago
    Apple is virtually the only consumer computer company that has had positive YoY computer growth every year in the past 20 years. Apple is selling way more iPhones, but the Mac has been gradually and steadily gaining growth.
  - KptMarchewa 4y ago
    Around 20% of what iphone makes - not the most important category, but not a rounding error either.
  - geerlingguy 4y ago
    Their Mac business is still a Fortune 500 company in terms of revenue by itself. Besides Halo effect, they still make a ton of money off Macs, and now that their chips cross pollinate with the iOS devices, it makes no sense to kill it off.
    - simondotau 4y ago
      Not to mention, the Mac platform is effectively the SDK for the iOS/iPadOS platform. And it's a thing which pretty much every single person who works at Apple uses on a daily basis. The Mac is not — I assure you — going anywhere.
MisterTea 4y ago
> but the silicone chips team now does. Ah-ha! I knew they were implants!
cplusplusfellow 4y ago
Honestly the keyboard prevented me from purchasing a MacBook from 2014 until 2020. I still despise the 2020 keyboard but I’ll reluctantly use it to type a password and then plug in a USB keyboard. The 2022 is a dream come true for me.
- adrianmsmith 4y ago
  It was 2016 when things went wrong for the keyboards. I have a 2015 MacBook Pro and the keyboard is fantastic.
  - nerdawson 4y ago
    Apple released a 12" MacBook in early 2015 which was the first to have the butterfly keyboards. A guy I worked with bought one and complained about it relentlessly.
  - cplusplusfellow 4y ago
    True. In my case I didn't need a laptop for 2015/2016, but I'm typically an "every 2 years" kind of person. When 2016 rolled out I knew I was going to be taking care of that 2013 laptop for a long while.
- shakezula 4y ago
  And mag safe made a comeback? And an HDMI port?! The M1 pro was a no-brainer to me when I was in the market for a new laptop.
  - cplusplusfellow 4y ago
    How in the world do you invent (or at least properly commercialize on a mass scale) a feature like MagSafe and then remove it from your laptops? Jonny Ive made a lot good decisions in the days when he worked for Jobs, but my theory is that Jobs kept him from being a complete idiot. Tim Cook lost control of him and it went downhill massively after that.
    - 4y ago
cwp 4y ago
> the worst the Mac has ever been No. No no no. The worst was the Amelio era.
- akho 4y ago
  That era lasted from February 1996 to July 1997. I don’t think you can call it an era. Maybe a transition period.
- adolph 4y ago
  Amelio did do three good things: * replaced Spindler * failed to buy BeOS * bought NeXT Spindler's Apple is responsible for the Performa sub-brand (although Amelio didn't kill it). > After releasing a total of sixty-four different models [in five years], Apple retired the Performa brand in early 1997, shortly after release of the Power Macintosh 5500, 6500, 8600 and 9600, as well as the return of Steve Jobs to the company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Performa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Performa
  - cwp 4y ago
    Yeah, for sure. I'm just grumbling about these kids that don't know how good they have it. Even with unreliable keyboards and Intel failing to deliver, the period leading up to the M1 wasn't even close to "the worst the Mac has ever been". I had to walk to school barefoot!
amelius 4y ago
> but the silicone chips team now does You mean silicon. Silicone means something else. https://www.livescience.com/37598-silicon-or-silicone-chips-implants.html https://www.livescience.com/37598-silicon-or-silicone-chips-...
- noarchy 4y ago
  Do you think there is anyone here who didn't understand exactly what they meant?
  - crazy_hombre 4y ago
    I'm with you. HN pedants are so god damn annoying.
    - kzrdude 4y ago
      As one of them, I agree. It's easy to jump to the first thing you notice (something superficially wrong to point out), I often do this. And it's hard to think beyond that and engage with the ideas instead. But then again, that's why we try to write elegantly so readers don't stumble on the words and instead think about the meaning behind them.
  - kergonath 4y ago
    Well, words do matter. This is HN...
  - plonk 4y ago
    Getting grammar and spelling right makes for text that's much easier to read. Helping people remember these things is positive.
    - what_ever 4y ago
      Just "silicon*" as a reply should have been enough. There was no need for the additional sentence and certainly no need for the source/link.
kllrnohj 4y ago
> This thing is going to sell like hotcakes. The combination of single core CPU and graphics performance, device thinness, battery life in this laptop is unmatched. Well, except for the small problem that the M1 air exists and is still on sale. Same single core CPU performance and near enough multicore and GPU performance. And it's cheaper by a not insignificant amount. Which is pretty much why Linus Tech Tips wasn't a fan. If you want an Air, get the M1 version and save a buck. If you want performance, kinda hard to argue with the huge upgrades you get from the not that much more expensive 14" Pro.
- zitterbewegung 4y ago
  I think you are confusing their review of MacBook Pro M2 with the MacBook Air m2.
  - adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
    the air m2 still is $200 more for a fairly small performance improvement
    - pensatoio 4y ago
      Better webcam, better screen?
- velcrovan 4y ago
  Linus offhandedly said the M1 had “disappointing performance” when it first came out. He’s got opinions but he’s not super credible.
  - kllrnohj 4y ago
    The LTT review I was referring to was by Anthony, not Linus. I don't recall Linus ever saying the M1 was "disappointing performance" anyway, nor how they wouldn't be considered a credible review? Just because a reviewer doesn't give the review you want doesn't mean it's not credible.
divbzero 4y ago
In addition to all of that, MagSafe is back as well.
- skohan 4y ago
  Keep it. I want one port to rule them all.
  - travisgriggs 4y ago
    Is the returned MagSafe the only way to charge these new macs? Or can you choose to use either MagSafe or usbc? Honestly curious.
    - mstade 4y ago
      Not sure about plugging in two chargers at once, but you can definitely use either MagSafe or USB-C to charge. I do it frequently with my MBP. The MagSafe charges faster, but that may be more down to the power brick than the interface, I don’t know.
    - sfmike 4y ago
      mag safe is how to get the 67w, usb c will be slower but possible. This i researched too because wanted a USB-C Exclusive EDC and it looks like thats possible albeit slightly slower charging which is fine if you don't rely on 100% battery dumps then full fast charges to operate.
      - Casteil 4y ago
        Wrong. It depends on the USB-C charger/cable; it can and will charge at >67W via USB-C if your wall adapter & cable can handle it.
    - Casteil 4y ago
      The new 2021 MBPs (14 & 16) as well as the new M2 MBA/MBPs can charge with either Magsafe, OR USB-C. I've personally charged my 14" off a 100W USB-C, and it does fast charge, faster than the stock 67W adapter.
conductr 4y ago
Wonder how long these M chips were in R&D and meanwhile they were just watching everyone on the internet complain how crappy mac laptops were but they knew this was coming
- throw34 4y ago
  Probably somewhere around two years before the M1 announcement is when development started. It’s a lot of work to design one of these parts. https://anysilicon.com/asic-design-flow-ultimate-guide/ https://anysilicon.com/asic-design-flow-ultimate-guide/
  - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2019/07/26/intel-engineer-talks-processors-design-testing-and-why-10nm-delay-shouldnt-matter/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2019/07/26/intel-... Intel - 4 years.
- zitterbewegung 4y ago
  When Linus Tech tips did a review and tear down of the last Intel MacBook Air the design had no heat pipe and was just passively cooled. The first MacBook Air with the M1 design was equivalent but with an updated motherboard that had an M1. The A12Z in the DTK is derived from the A12 which came out in 2018 so it probably was earlier than that.
  - watersb 4y ago
    ? My M1 MacBook Air is passively cooled, but has a heat pipe that feeds into a heat sink that's at least as large as the M1 system heat spreader. - Detail image: https://valkyrie.cdn.ifixit.com/media/2020/11/19115445/MBA_M1_2020_49_v1-2048x1536.jpg https://valkyrie.cdn.ifixit.com/media/2020/11/19115445/MBA_M... - iFixit Teardown feature article: https://www.ifixit.com/News/46884/m1-macbook-teardowns-something-old-something-new https://www.ifixit.com/News/46884/m1-macbook-teardowns-somet...
    - 4y ago
donny2018 4y ago
My M1 Air is a nearly perfect machine, but I continuously find myself looking at the yellow “memory pressure” graph and swap disk writes. I wish Apple never offered 8gb version, as I was surprised to find that MacOS wants to use more RAM than a Windows machine with the same amount of RAM.
- joshspankit 4y ago
  If they gave us a way to actually disable the macOS features, 8GB would be very usable. But everything from regular wifi/bt scanning to photo tagging to adding all interactions to a giant Siri database so that the OS can suggest what it thinks you’re most likely to open at any given moment. These all need RAM and other resources even if you don’t have any open applications.
  - maybelsyrup 4y ago
    There aren't third-party ways to shut some of that stuff off? When I used OSX I remember a great app called OnyX [1] that could customize deeper, system-level stuff. [1] https://www.titanium-software.fr/en/index.html https://www.titanium-software.fr/en/index.html
  - saagarjha 4y ago
    Have you checked to see how much they are using? In general it's not much.
- turtlebits 4y ago
  Theres no need to watch memory/swap, just use it as it is intended. IME, 8gb is plenty.
- tluyben2 4y ago
  I exchanged my 8gb air for 16gb and it's perfect. Really cannot get it bogged down. Definitely now that most things are Apple Silicon compiled; before that it was a bit more problematic.
caycep 4y ago
I would say, is this Ive's fault or Intel's? What the silicon team is doing is more or less what Ive needed to fulfill his visions. Honestly, there's a lot of PC nerd pushback against Ive, but I think the industry as a whole needs someone like his asking the (to the lay person) obvious questions - i.e. why can't I have this amount of computing power in a human-friendly form factor, vs. the giant, imposing, and ugly monolithic towers of yore?
hn_saver 4y ago
Single core, huh? It's 8 core
- peanuty1 4y ago
  I think they meant single core performance.
bastardoperator 4y ago
My M1 MacBook Air is insanely fast and the battery life is easily the best I've ever experienced. If the M2 is anything like the M1 or better, I agree, these things are going to make Apple a nice chunk of change.
- hajile 4y ago
  I suspect the best reason for upgrading is access to 24GB of RAM and maybe the hardware video encoders if that's your thing. Otherwise, M2 is a very solid iteration, but probably not worth dropping that much money if you already own an M1 system.
  - kingsleyopara 4y ago
    For me it's hardware nested virtualization but I'll be waiting for the M2 Pro.
    - vasili111 4y ago
      Could you please provide the link about "hardware nested virtualization"?
      - kingsleyopara 4y ago
        While not officially confirmed, it seems likely as the A15 appears too (https://nitter.net/dylan522p/status/1438313107231842304 https://nitter.net/dylan522p/status/1438313107231842304), and VMware seems pretty optimistic (https://nitter.net/denniscdietrich/status/1534565127617380355 https://nitter.net/denniscdietrich/status/153456512761738035...).
        saagarjha 4y ago
        I have no idea why VMware is talking about EL3 access, these chips do not have EL3. They do have nested virtualization but it's not available in the system frameworks yet.
  - 4y ago
tootie 4y ago
I wager that 90% of PC buyers don't really look at specs at all and just always buy the latest Mac regardless. And that 90% of that 90% won't really benefit much from the advanced specs. I had an 11" Chromebook with a Celeron processor for 6 years. Cost less than $200 and weighed almost nothing. If I wasn't coding or gaming, it was the best PC I ever owned.
alsetmusic 4y ago
> It’s funny how Apple came back from the worst the Mac has ever been to the best in a span of few years. The terrible state of the Mac over the last nine years hardly compares to the dismal state that Apple was in during the 90s. The product line was a mess and they had multiple machines that had common failures (PowerBook 5300c[0] comes to mind as my first laptop). It was so bad that PowerComputing was making better Macs (clones) than Apple. They've made two incredible comebacks. [0] > Two early production PowerBook 5300s caught fire, one at an Apple employee's house and another at the factory; it turned out that the Sony-manufactured lithium ion batteries had overheated while recharging. Apple recalled the 5300s sold (around a hundred machines) and replaced the batteries on these and all subsequent 5300s with nickel metal hydride batteries that provided only about 70% the endurance. At the time, the media viewed the problems with the PowerBook 5300 series as yet another example of Apple's decline. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_5300#Batteries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_5300#Batteries
pastrami_panda 4y ago
> Johnny Ive doesn’t dictate things around Apple anymore but the silicone chips team now does That's not how Apple works. If they still work remotely like they did back under Jobs the hardware teams are not the guys calling the shots for future product cycles.
- smt88 4y ago
  > If they still work remotely like they did back under Jobs the hardware teams are not the guys calling the shots for future product cycles. There have been a lot of articles about how it doesn't work remotely like it did under Jobs[1]. Tim Cook has been CEO for 11+ years and isn't at all like Jobs. 1. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/01/technology/jony-ive-apple-design.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/01/technology/jony-ive-apple...

deleted 4y ago

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jjtheblunt 4y ago

autocorrect spelling error : silicone -> silicon

bluedino 4y ago

> the worst the Mac has ever been Which one was that?

pavlov 4y ago
The 2016 MacBook Pro was a turd. The butterfly keyboard would inevitably break. I went through several of these laptops. To add insult to the injury, this model's unique innovations were "Touch Bar" and "no ports"... I've been buying Macs since 2000, and the 2016 MBP is definitely the worst Mac I ever had. It was enough to drive me to purchase a Surface Book as an alternative.
- hardlianotion 4y ago
  The 16" Macbook pro I bought in 2019 has been a source of constant irritation to me - unexpected fan thrashing, overheating, the usual stuff - and the performance and low cost of the new M1-based MacBooks has done nothing to improve my mood.
  - xbar 4y ago
    I don't blame you. That "pinnacle" of hardware design is an Apple poop-bomb. I have one with 32GB that was provided by my employer. It is bad. I hate using it. The keyboard on it is bad, the performance is bad, and the glitchiness is deeply frustrating. I loved my 2015 Macbook Pro 15" that it replaced and wondered why I thought it would be any better. My M1 Macbook Pro 16 is a joy to me.
    - jamiepenney 4y ago
      I put an order in for a 14" one last night to replace my 2019 MBP, this makes me feel better about the price.
  - Pelam 4y ago
    Try customizing the fan curves to spin up at lower temps. Not much more noise over all if at all, but much more responsiveness.
  - unicornporn 4y ago
    > The 16" Macbook pro I bought in 2019 has been a source of constant irritation to me This. Worst Mac I've ever had to use.
  - AOsborn 4y ago
    Same situation with mine. Even had to have the battery replaced after showing errors, after a whole ordeal to have it covered under warranty. I suspect this was related to the constant overheating.
  - wildrhythms 4y ago
    I have one of these for work (employer-provided) and it is the worst machine I have ever used. The touchbar is useless. It's heavy and bulky as hell. Just watching a Youtube video or opening a page with some gifs causes the fan to spin up and sound like a jet engine. The dual fan situation was supposed to improve cooling, but it only made it LOUDER. Incredibly embarrassing to be in a quiet meeting room and accidentally open a slide deck with a gif for 2 minutes and have the machine ramp up its fans to maximum speed. Why?? Meanwhile on my M1 Air I can have the same content open + some Twitch stream + 3D map view open with no fan, no sound at all, and it runs great.
- wombat-man 4y ago
  I refuse to buy a touchbar mac although some have been issued to me by employers. I remember when they came out they raised the price of the MBP for this "feature" that just kinda sucked. Ended up leaving my MBP closed 95% of the time and using a separate keyboard.
  - wildrhythms 4y ago
    This is why I bought a M1 Air instead of a Pro when it first launched. I don't know how some people can stand the touchbar. "But it can do so much!" Isn't the point of touch typing to never look at the keyboard? It never made sense to me.
- kalleboo 4y ago
  In addition they made the battery smaller despite the CPU not really getting any more efficient so it got less battery life unless literally all you were doing was watching iTunes movies.
- SenHeng 4y ago
  I'm grateful for the 'no ports' move. It really helped jump start moving everything on to USB-C. Yes, the implementation details are still being worked out. particularly how the mass manufacturers can cut cost while still the most wanted subset of supported features.
  - solarkraft 4y ago
    > Yes, the implementation details are still being worked out We're about 7 years into USB-C and I still had to do a ton of searching to find a dongle that does HDMI at 60 Hz, USB-A and charging (how crazy to want all that, right?!). I also had to buy a shady (AFAIK it violates the spec) extension cable to build a dock setup ("real" docks are in the hundreds of Euros). It cost me about 40€ to get back features I used to get for free and has reliability issues. USB-C is a blessing for charging, but I'm a bit disappointed by the ecosystem for the rest.
- lloeki 4y ago
  Oh my, the 2018 one I have is a terrible piece of junk, notably the USB subsystem (overheats on one side, prone to interference, regularly resets which kills and connects to some device, may it be mouse, keyboard, or external display) and although I liked the touch of the butterfly keyboard, the arrow keys still trip me up (and of course the reliability) > "Touch Bar" The default touch bar UI is terrible, except for a few special cases (e.g Logic Pro / GarageBand sliders/knobs). I did see and try some hacks to customise it but they were quite brittle so I dropped off that train, but it kind of proved to me that there was something to it that could have been really great were it fully programmable for real, and that the actual execution was extremely subpar. > "no ports" If by "no ports" you mean USB-C only, I am really enjoying the 4x C port machines, and would rather not go back to mixed ports unless forced to. USB-A/B sockets just need to die.
  - unilynx 4y ago
    > except for a few special cases (e.g Logic Pro / GarageBand sliders/knobs). yeah that .. I enjoy it for quickly setting/sliding brightness and volume. And you can add a screenshot button to it which does not break focus so it allows me to screenshot things the keyboard cmd+shift+3/4 UI can't (ie context menus)
- waynesonfire 4y ago
  Sheesh, did you skip the MBP 2015? That's the best one they ever made, even to this day. I've been using MBP 2015 since then and just recently "upgraded" to M1. The MBP 2015 is still a better machine, better screen and keyboard. I can type waayy faster on the 2015 with less errors and the screen is better on the eye strain. The whites on the M1 are BRIGHT. I don't need a flash light shining at my face. Turning down the "brightness" doesn't address the problem. That just makes the whole screen darker or but the whites are still as bright. I'm still learning the laptop, maybe there is a contrast setting. Oh, and the trackpad on the 2015 doesn't feel like sandpaper. On the M1, the tip of my finger is numb most of the day. Anyway, for such a fanboi and you skipped the best MBP. Bummer for you. I can't imagine going from 2015 to 2016 and being satisfied with that. I'd have returned it the same day.
  - whynaut 4y ago
    You'll definitely want to enable warmer colors
    - waynesonfire 4y ago
      I use that. Been toying with night mode, color filters, and even flux. It's still too extreme, though it helps with the whites the other colors look atrocious. I have just about identical settings on both models and comparing the two laptops side-by-side, the 2015 looks much better. I still have "vivid" colors but the whites are more grey. Must be a screen thing, some new IPS technology. I don't know. It's terrible.
      - appletrotter 4y ago
        I feel like you might be noticing HDR. HDR supersedes your brightness settings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlAsAuBtmps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlAsAuBtmps
  - 0_____0 4y ago
    I'm not really that picky about era of MBP, honestly I'd be happy with any of them save for the era with the bad keyboards. But the 2015 vintage was certainly a good one. I have a late-2015 rMBP as my daily driver. I'm only now starting to run up against its limitations. USB-C, better 4K support, form factor, battery life, overall speed are things I'm looking forward to when I finally upgrade.
- butterisgood 4y ago
  Hmm I did exactly the same thing. Apple refreshed my whole laptop after a keyboard break, and I have the Surface to my wife. I think we are both going to get these M2 MBAs next.
- sgtnoodle 4y ago
  I am not generally an Apple user, but I had a 2012 MacBook pro for work for a few years, and it seemed pretty nice. I can't remember any complaints. That's while I was working at Google, though, so all I used it for was a web browser and SSH terminal.
jclardy 4y ago
Butterfly keyboard era. I have one as a work machine that sits around until I need VPN access. The keyboard is miserable, and the fans spin up when I open Slack. In contrast, my 14" M1 Pro is the best laptop I've ever used. Fans are inaudible, incredible performance, incredible keyboard/trackpad, battery is not a worry.
deepGem 4y ago
15”/13” MBPro with the Touch Bar and that horrendous keyboard.
iamben 4y ago
The last Intel Air (early 2020) is the worst Mac I've ever owned by an absolute mile. The fan is permanently on - it's like working on a hairdryer.
- horsawlarway 4y ago
  Honestly - Pretty much every laptop Apple released from 2018 to 2021 was a complete turd. I have the 16 inch 2019 model (issued by work, I don't buy apple products) and it's... just not a good machine. It gets amazingly hot, the fans run ALL the time, the usb-c ports are flakey at best (frequently stop working after a suspend/resume cycle, or if you unplug while the machine is closed). It's got a shitty touch bar instead of function keys (although at least it reverted to a real esc-key, the touchbar only esc was literally a joke). It has frequent rendering glitches and artifacts. The battery life is bad (basically a given for how much power this thing is dumping right into my lap as heat). ---- Before the M line, I was about to go have a real fight with our IT department to get me issued literally anything other than another Mac. The last couple of models they've put out in the intel line are just genuinely bad machines, across both the pro and air lines.
  - iamben 4y ago
    Ugh, I forgot about the battery. I'm lucky if I get a couple of hours out of it. Horrible thing.
    - jamiepenney 4y ago
      90 minutes max for me. Awful machine.
      - iamben 4y ago
        I spent months complaining to them about this laptop. I had an Air for 5 years(!) before this and it was a wonderful machine. For 2k I'd expected a decent machine - but I hate everything about it. Obviously Apple didn't care in the slightest.
      - 4y ago
vishnugupta 4y ago
The one they launched with Touch Bar. By far the worst keyboard I have come across, almost useless Touch Bar, no ports.
- Jyaif 4y ago
  For me the Touch Bar wasn't just useless, it was actively annoying.
rodgerd 4y ago
Any of the 90s Performa models where processors were routinely crippled by having half-width memory buses on them.

dr_zoidberg 4y ago

M2 is not a single core CPU, albeit it does have stellar single threaded performance. As for having the worst Mac, it's quite probable they were nerfing their last x86 models on purpose to make the jump to Apple Silicon even more impressive. Remember the models that had inadequate thermals? Now magsafe is making a comeback?

sokoloff 4y ago
I read GP's as "combination of (single core CPU *plus* graphics) performance"
- dr_zoidberg 4y ago
  Sure, that's why I mentioned it having stellar single threaded performance -- I figure out what they probably meant, but it's not what is written. And I've been seeing a lot of misinformation lately about many things (in general, and in tech in particular), and people buying that without questioning , which is why I jumped to "correct" this detail. The point about nerfing their last x86 models stands on its own though.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    When you multiply that out it becomes "combination of (single core CPU performance) and (graphics performance)", which seems clear enough and aligns well with your point. It's possible to read it as "combination of (single core CPU) and (graphics performance)", but since the first one isn't much of a benefit (other than possibly power), I think the other is the more natural reading.
dean177 4y ago
Read that sentence as “single core cpu performance and graphics performance” Rather than “a single core cpu. And graphics performance”
stetrain 4y ago
Seems like in 2016 Apple was developing thermal designs for Intel’s future promises which ended up being significantly delayed. And the Apple Silicon Macbook Air has no fan at all. This is what Apple wanted out of their laptops, and was clearly struggling to achieve it with Intel’s offerings in 2015-2020.

amelius 4y ago

> Johnny Ive doesn’t dictate things around Apple anymore but the silicone chips team now does. Then how come we never read about those hardware devs, and get only story after story about Ive? My guess: those hardware devs are just faceless pawns that get replaced as soon as they start having opinions about product design.

joakleaf 4y ago
So... the last 3-4 Apple events have had minute long segments with Johny Srouji presenting the Apple Silicon chips. He is Apple's senior vice president of hardware technologies. There is an interview with him in the Wall Street Journal here: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-chips-that-rebooted-the-mac-11650081649 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-chips-that-rebooted-the-mac...
astrange 4y ago
Ive doesn't even work at Apple anymore.

simonebrunozzi 4y ago

Long AAPL, you say? Or what else are you saying? I agree that Ive's influence will not be missed.

dcolkitt 4y ago
Aren't Macs basically a rounding error for the overall company?
- boringg 4y ago
  And people don't need to replace iphones as much as they used to in the past... Still a formidable company don't get me wrong.
- mproud 4y ago
  Apple is virtually the only consumer computer company that has had positive YoY computer growth every year in the past 20 years. Apple is selling way more iPhones, but the Mac has been gradually and steadily gaining growth.
- KptMarchewa 4y ago
  Around 20% of what iphone makes - not the most important category, but not a rounding error either.
- geerlingguy 4y ago
  Their Mac business is still a Fortune 500 company in terms of revenue by itself. Besides Halo effect, they still make a ton of money off Macs, and now that their chips cross pollinate with the iOS devices, it makes no sense to kill it off.
  - simondotau 4y ago
    Not to mention, the Mac platform is effectively the SDK for the iOS/iPadOS platform. And it's a thing which pretty much every single person who works at Apple uses on a daily basis. The Mac is not — I assure you — going anywhere.

MisterTea 4y ago

> but the silicone chips team now does. Ah-ha! I knew they were implants!

cplusplusfellow 4y ago

Honestly the keyboard prevented me from purchasing a MacBook from 2014 until 2020. I still despise the 2020 keyboard but I’ll reluctantly use it to type a password and then plug in a USB keyboard. The 2022 is a dream come true for me.

adrianmsmith 4y ago
It was 2016 when things went wrong for the keyboards. I have a 2015 MacBook Pro and the keyboard is fantastic.
- nerdawson 4y ago
  Apple released a 12" MacBook in early 2015 which was the first to have the butterfly keyboards. A guy I worked with bought one and complained about it relentlessly.
- cplusplusfellow 4y ago
  True. In my case I didn't need a laptop for 2015/2016, but I'm typically an "every 2 years" kind of person. When 2016 rolled out I knew I was going to be taking care of that 2013 laptop for a long while.
shakezula 4y ago
And mag safe made a comeback? And an HDMI port?! The M1 pro was a no-brainer to me when I was in the market for a new laptop.
- cplusplusfellow 4y ago
  How in the world do you invent (or at least properly commercialize on a mass scale) a feature like MagSafe and then remove it from your laptops? Jonny Ive made a lot good decisions in the days when he worked for Jobs, but my theory is that Jobs kept him from being a complete idiot. Tim Cook lost control of him and it went downhill massively after that.
  - 4y ago

cwp 4y ago

> the worst the Mac has ever been No. No no no. The worst was the Amelio era.

akho 4y ago
That era lasted from February 1996 to July 1997. I don’t think you can call it an era. Maybe a transition period.
adolph 4y ago
Amelio did do three good things: * replaced Spindler * failed to buy BeOS * bought NeXT Spindler's Apple is responsible for the Performa sub-brand (although Amelio didn't kill it). > After releasing a total of sixty-four different models [in five years], Apple retired the Performa brand in early 1997, shortly after release of the Power Macintosh 5500, 6500, 8600 and 9600, as well as the return of Steve Jobs to the company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Performa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Performa
- cwp 4y ago
  Yeah, for sure. I'm just grumbling about these kids that don't know how good they have it. Even with unreliable keyboards and Intel failing to deliver, the period leading up to the M1 wasn't even close to "the worst the Mac has ever been". I had to walk to school barefoot!

amelius 4y ago

> but the silicone chips team now does You mean silicon. Silicone means something else. https://www.livescience.com/37598-silicon-or-silicone-chips-implants.html https://www.livescience.com/37598-silicon-or-silicone-chips-...

noarchy 4y ago
Do you think there is anyone here who didn't understand exactly what they meant?
- crazy_hombre 4y ago
  I'm with you. HN pedants are so god damn annoying.
  - kzrdude 4y ago
    As one of them, I agree. It's easy to jump to the first thing you notice (something superficially wrong to point out), I often do this. And it's hard to think beyond that and engage with the ideas instead. But then again, that's why we try to write elegantly so readers don't stumble on the words and instead think about the meaning behind them.
- kergonath 4y ago
  Well, words do matter. This is HN...
- plonk 4y ago
  Getting grammar and spelling right makes for text that's much easier to read. Helping people remember these things is positive.
  - what_ever 4y ago
    Just "silicon*" as a reply should have been enough. There was no need for the additional sentence and certainly no need for the source/link.

kllrnohj 4y ago

> This thing is going to sell like hotcakes. The combination of single core CPU and graphics performance, device thinness, battery life in this laptop is unmatched. Well, except for the small problem that the M1 air exists and is still on sale. Same single core CPU performance and near enough multicore and GPU performance. And it's cheaper by a not insignificant amount. Which is pretty much why Linus Tech Tips wasn't a fan. If you want an Air, get the M1 version and save a buck. If you want performance, kinda hard to argue with the huge upgrades you get from the not that much more expensive 14" Pro.

zitterbewegung 4y ago
I think you are confusing their review of MacBook Pro M2 with the MacBook Air m2.
- adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
  the air m2 still is $200 more for a fairly small performance improvement
  - pensatoio 4y ago
    Better webcam, better screen?
velcrovan 4y ago
Linus offhandedly said the M1 had “disappointing performance” when it first came out. He’s got opinions but he’s not super credible.
- kllrnohj 4y ago
  The LTT review I was referring to was by Anthony, not Linus. I don't recall Linus ever saying the M1 was "disappointing performance" anyway, nor how they wouldn't be considered a credible review? Just because a reviewer doesn't give the review you want doesn't mean it's not credible.

divbzero 4y ago

In addition to all of that, MagSafe is back as well.

skohan 4y ago
Keep it. I want one port to rule them all.
- travisgriggs 4y ago
  Is the returned MagSafe the only way to charge these new macs? Or can you choose to use either MagSafe or usbc? Honestly curious.
  - mstade 4y ago
    Not sure about plugging in two chargers at once, but you can definitely use either MagSafe or USB-C to charge. I do it frequently with my MBP. The MagSafe charges faster, but that may be more down to the power brick than the interface, I don’t know.
  - sfmike 4y ago
    mag safe is how to get the 67w, usb c will be slower but possible. This i researched too because wanted a USB-C Exclusive EDC and it looks like thats possible albeit slightly slower charging which is fine if you don't rely on 100% battery dumps then full fast charges to operate.
    - Casteil 4y ago
      Wrong. It depends on the USB-C charger/cable; it can and will charge at >67W via USB-C if your wall adapter & cable can handle it.
  - Casteil 4y ago
    The new 2021 MBPs (14 & 16) as well as the new M2 MBA/MBPs can charge with either Magsafe, OR USB-C. I've personally charged my 14" off a 100W USB-C, and it does fast charge, faster than the stock 67W adapter.

conductr 4y ago

Wonder how long these M chips were in R&D and meanwhile they were just watching everyone on the internet complain how crappy mac laptops were but they knew this was coming

throw34 4y ago
Probably somewhere around two years before the M1 announcement is when development started. It’s a lot of work to design one of these parts. https://anysilicon.com/asic-design-flow-ultimate-guide/ https://anysilicon.com/asic-design-flow-ultimate-guide/
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  https://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2019/07/26/intel-engineer-talks-processors-design-testing-and-why-10nm-delay-shouldnt-matter/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2019/07/26/intel-... Intel - 4 years.
zitterbewegung 4y ago
When Linus Tech tips did a review and tear down of the last Intel MacBook Air the design had no heat pipe and was just passively cooled. The first MacBook Air with the M1 design was equivalent but with an updated motherboard that had an M1. The A12Z in the DTK is derived from the A12 which came out in 2018 so it probably was earlier than that.
- watersb 4y ago
  ? My M1 MacBook Air is passively cooled, but has a heat pipe that feeds into a heat sink that's at least as large as the M1 system heat spreader. - Detail image: https://valkyrie.cdn.ifixit.com/media/2020/11/19115445/MBA_M1_2020_49_v1-2048x1536.jpg https://valkyrie.cdn.ifixit.com/media/2020/11/19115445/MBA_M... - iFixit Teardown feature article: https://www.ifixit.com/News/46884/m1-macbook-teardowns-something-old-something-new https://www.ifixit.com/News/46884/m1-macbook-teardowns-somet...
  - 4y ago

donny2018 4y ago

My M1 Air is a nearly perfect machine, but I continuously find myself looking at the yellow “memory pressure” graph and swap disk writes. I wish Apple never offered 8gb version, as I was surprised to find that MacOS wants to use more RAM than a Windows machine with the same amount of RAM.

joshspankit 4y ago
If they gave us a way to actually disable the macOS features, 8GB would be very usable. But everything from regular wifi/bt scanning to photo tagging to adding all interactions to a giant Siri database so that the OS can suggest what it thinks you’re most likely to open at any given moment. These all need RAM and other resources even if you don’t have any open applications.
- maybelsyrup 4y ago
  There aren't third-party ways to shut some of that stuff off? When I used OSX I remember a great app called OnyX [1] that could customize deeper, system-level stuff. [1] https://www.titanium-software.fr/en/index.html https://www.titanium-software.fr/en/index.html
- saagarjha 4y ago
  Have you checked to see how much they are using? In general it's not much.
turtlebits 4y ago
Theres no need to watch memory/swap, just use it as it is intended. IME, 8gb is plenty.
tluyben2 4y ago
I exchanged my 8gb air for 16gb and it's perfect. Really cannot get it bogged down. Definitely now that most things are Apple Silicon compiled; before that it was a bit more problematic.

caycep 4y ago

I would say, is this Ive's fault or Intel's? What the silicon team is doing is more or less what Ive needed to fulfill his visions. Honestly, there's a lot of PC nerd pushback against Ive, but I think the industry as a whole needs someone like his asking the (to the lay person) obvious questions - i.e. why can't I have this amount of computing power in a human-friendly form factor, vs. the giant, imposing, and ugly monolithic towers of yore?

hn_saver 4y ago

Single core, huh? It's 8 core

peanuty1 4y ago
I think they meant single core performance.

bastardoperator 4y ago

My M1 MacBook Air is insanely fast and the battery life is easily the best I've ever experienced. If the M2 is anything like the M1 or better, I agree, these things are going to make Apple a nice chunk of change.

hajile 4y ago
I suspect the best reason for upgrading is access to 24GB of RAM and maybe the hardware video encoders if that's your thing. Otherwise, M2 is a very solid iteration, but probably not worth dropping that much money if you already own an M1 system.
- kingsleyopara 4y ago
  For me it's hardware nested virtualization but I'll be waiting for the M2 Pro.
  - vasili111 4y ago
    Could you please provide the link about "hardware nested virtualization"?
    - kingsleyopara 4y ago
      While not officially confirmed, it seems likely as the A15 appears too (https://nitter.net/dylan522p/status/1438313107231842304 https://nitter.net/dylan522p/status/1438313107231842304), and VMware seems pretty optimistic (https://nitter.net/denniscdietrich/status/1534565127617380355 https://nitter.net/denniscdietrich/status/153456512761738035...).
      - saagarjha 4y ago
        I have no idea why VMware is talking about EL3 access, these chips do not have EL3. They do have nested virtualization but it's not available in the system frameworks yet.
- 4y ago

tootie 4y ago

I wager that 90% of PC buyers don't really look at specs at all and just always buy the latest Mac regardless. And that 90% of that 90% won't really benefit much from the advanced specs. I had an 11" Chromebook with a Celeron processor for 6 years. Cost less than $200 and weighed almost nothing. If I wasn't coding or gaming, it was the best PC I ever owned.

alsetmusic 4y ago

> It’s funny how Apple came back from the worst the Mac has ever been to the best in a span of few years. The terrible state of the Mac over the last nine years hardly compares to the dismal state that Apple was in during the 90s. The product line was a mess and they had multiple machines that had common failures (PowerBook 5300c[0] comes to mind as my first laptop). It was so bad that PowerComputing was making better Macs (clones) than Apple. They've made two incredible comebacks. [0] > Two early production PowerBook 5300s caught fire, one at an Apple employee's house and another at the factory; it turned out that the Sony-manufactured lithium ion batteries had overheated while recharging. Apple recalled the 5300s sold (around a hundred machines) and replaced the batteries on these and all subsequent 5300s with nickel metal hydride batteries that provided only about 70% the endurance. At the time, the media viewed the problems with the PowerBook 5300 series as yet another example of Apple's decline. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_5300#Batteries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_5300#Batteries

pastrami_panda 4y ago

> Johnny Ive doesn’t dictate things around Apple anymore but the silicone chips team now does That's not how Apple works. If they still work remotely like they did back under Jobs the hardware teams are not the guys calling the shots for future product cycles.

smt88 4y ago
> If they still work remotely like they did back under Jobs the hardware teams are not the guys calling the shots for future product cycles. There have been a lot of articles about how it doesn't work remotely like it did under Jobs[1]. Tim Cook has been CEO for 11+ years and isn't at all like Jobs. 1. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/01/technology/jony-ive-apple-design.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/01/technology/jony-ive-apple...