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Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]
- swayvil 4y agoVipassana meditation makes you smarter. There seems to be no ceiling. But it's also weird. For what that's worth. I wonder if Mr Keyes meditated.
- uniqueuid 4y agoDespite all my rational efforts; all the maths and research - there is a speck of insight that only poetry and literature can reach. It's irritating and comforting at the same time.
- vagab0nd 4y agoThank you for this. This is exactly how I felt but could not articulate.
- uniqueuid 4y agoThanks, that makes me happy. You might also like this phrase I adore, which expresses the same sentiment in a more general way: "And the words slide into the slots ordained by syntax, and glitter as with atmospheric dust with those impurities which we call meaning." Of course, Anthony Burgess is much more of a poet than I am.
- sydthrowaway 4y agoAll the world’s combined poetry and literature won’t get you to the moon, or solve the world’s energy crisis. It’s all a bunch of tosh - don’t stop building.
- objectivetruth 4y ago[dead]
- uniqueuid 4y agoI never said that poetry gets you to the moon. But when you’re there - how do you cope with the heat death of the universe, or the loss of your close ones, or how do you justify being there? How do you find joy in your mornings, and how do you empathise with others, the living and the once-living?
- marginalia_nu 4y agoAll the mathematics in the world can't tell you why you would want to go to the moon.
- bcbrown 4y agoTo get to the moon, you first have to want to get to the moon. Literature excels at disseminating dreams and desires.
- messe 4y agoNo, but it might make you just as happy or fulfilled.
- WaffleIronMaker 4y agoI read this so long ago, but nothing else I've read has used the very medium of language to communicate character development so effectively.
- dc-programmer 4y agoThis was a formative read for me many years ago but only recently realized there is also a novel version. Has anyone here read both?
- remoquete 4y agoIt’s commonly agreed that the short version is way better.
- ghaff 4y agoThe novel and film are "fine" as I recall but the short story is the real classic.
- jeffbee 4y agoIndeed. And it wasn't written in 1965, despite this title.
- solardev 4y ago(For anyone wondering, Wikipedia says it was written in 1958 and first published in 1959. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_Algernon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_Algernon)
- jstx1 4y agoI would have said the opposite - I like the few changes in the novel and I think that the whole story is a bit more impactful when it takes a bit more time instead of being very compressed like the short version is.
- solardev 4y agoI've only read the novel... didn't realize there was a short story version of it until just now. The short story reads a lot like, well, a short version of how I remember the novel to be. FWIW the novel was also excellent and is one of my all-time favorite books. As someone who is smart but not that smart, in a culture (software/tech) where intelligence is fetishly worshipped to the detriment of other personality traits, this was a very humbling, humanizing, and deeply touching read. EDIT: Actually, I just read the short story version. The story is essentially the same, as you'd expect, but the pacing suffered a little bit IMO. It was more believable in the longer form, where plot developments happened more gradually and the characters were fleshed out more. The novelization has more emotional impact because it was a smoother journey (at least as I remembered it) vs the rapid progression of the short story version. But, granted, it didn't help that I already knew the basic premise before reading the shorter version, so YMMV. Still, if you have time, why not go for the full thing? It's the sort of story that invites quiet contemplation instead of quick digestion.
- photochemsyn 4y agoThere's something curiously American about Flowers for Algernon... our general popular culture tends to value physical achievement (the athlete) more than mental achievement (the nerd/geek). So here's the story of how the co-workers/peers of a mentally disabled individual, Charlie, (who they ridicule initially) react to the reversal of that disability (with suspicion and distrust) and then the re-imposition of that disability (with protective behavior, and a degree of guilt and shame). The whole story is really more illustrative of the co-worker's behavior & values than anything else. Other cultures seem to have a more balanced view (i.e. mental development and physical development should go hand-in-hand, and an either-or approach is considered unhealthy). American culture in contrast developed the stereotypes of 'dumb jock' and 'scrawny nerd' - Hollywood's fault, maybe?
- taeric 4y agoI'm curious. I've never seen anything to make me think other cultures are that different in this regard. Would be interested in learning more.
- frostburg 4y agoWell, terrible recent developments notwithstanding, Russians revere the authors of their literary canon. Arguing that a successful athlete is more important than Tolstoj or Pushkin would generally be ridiculed. Even here in Italy, despite an unhealthy national obsession with association football, if considering the whole body of society nobody is held in higher public regard than esteemed painters, poets, writers etc. (athletes are loved but not believed to be particularly bright).
- taeric 4y agoThat doesn't seem too off to USA. Famous authors are still respected. Most authors aren't. I also feel that modern authors aren't given the same treatment.
- solardev 4y agoIn some East Asian cultures, there isn't really a concept for a "nerd" (or conversely, a "jock"). People just learn what they can, and exercise in whatever ways they can. It's recognized that there are different ability levels in both, but they're not considered opposite parts of a spectrum. If you try to translate "nerd" to Chinese, for example (https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4505 https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4505), there isn't really a neat translation... one of the closer translations would be something akin to a "bookworm", but even in that meaning, it's more to describe someone who's deeply interested in a very esoteric topic (say, the springtime dietary preferences of Han dynasty peasants), rather than someone who's smart but socially and physically inept. If you just sit at home all day and study, people will tell you to get more exercise, but there's not really a term for that beyond "you should exercise more". It's not a taunt or a pejorative. It's just not assumed that these are exclusionary spheres of being; you are expected to gradually develop your mental, physical, emotional, and social skills altogether, and a lot of the cultural development is in finessing out when to use which skills, whether you're a warrior or politician or emperor.
- tanseydavid 4y agoI was first exposed to it in movie form, called Charly and starring Cliff Robertson. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062794/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062794/ It had a big impact on me and I immediately wanted it in book form after seeing the movie.
- icedchai 4y agoI remember reading the book back in the late 80's. I was probably in 7th grade? Enjoyable book. I'll check out the movie.
- Asparagirl 4y agoThere was a musical version of the story too, "Charlie and Algernon" -- though it never got to Broadway. The music was by Charles Strouse, who also wrote the music for "Bye Bye Birdie" and "Annie". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_and_Algernon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_and_Algernon
- quanto 4y agoShe said dont be scared Charlie you done so much with so little I think you deserv it most of all. Charlie was a man with a good heart, motivation, and self-awareness, and yet the world was not so kind to him. The story reminds me of something I read somewhere: be kind to less intelligent people -- the world is already not so kind to them.
- jl6 4y agoAlso: we are all less intelligent than someone, so treat people right because soon it will be your turn.
- swayvil 4y agoAlso, smart and stupid look much alike (in that both experience a state of few unsolved riddles). So beware. Frankly, I think the desire (I want to crush somebody) comes first and the justification (he's a fool so it's only just that I crush him) comes second.
- ta8645 4y agoThere is a prevailing contempt these days for less intelligent and less educated people, that is very unseemly and disheartening.
- dotancohen 4y agoSuch contempt is not unique to "these days". And for what it's worth, there is no less contempt for the educated, never mind the intelligent, among those subcultures who praise and harvest ignorance.
- Barrin92 4y ago>Such contempt is not unique to "these days" It certainly is among otherwise self-declared tolerant people. The Atlantic wrote a great piece a few years ago called 'The War on Stupid people', pointing out that in communities that have strict rules of conduct concerning just about any form of discrimination, you'll find people casually joking about 'darwin awards' when some stupid person dies a grueling death. Imagine you'd introduce one for obese people in a tolerant, young internet community. Intelligence is increasingly conflated with human worth, and people who scoff at every form of inequality these days will gladly make an exception for intelligence, calling it meritocratic. The word itself is a good indicator of the change in attitude, given that Michael Young who coined it did so for satirical purposes, describing a future British society that is governed by an undemocratic elite selected through IQ tests.
- kurthr 4y agoWhy is it banned? Graphic sexual content! /s https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Flowers-for-Algernon-banned-in-so-many-schools https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Flowers-for-Algernon-banned-in-...
- shrx 4y agoIt's funny how the top-voted comment doesn't even answer the question.
- bhouston 4y agoHow does this compare to the experience of taking focus drugs for those that have problems focusing? Is the film “Limitless” a modern retelling of this in some aspects?
- fairity 4y agoI think too many of us believe that intelligence is valuable, in and of itself. Instead, I think we should value personal excellence. That is, making the most of the intelligence you’re given. The arc of intelligence in Flowers of Algernon is the same arc that we’ll all experience over our lifetime. With old age, we, too, will lose our intelligence. If we value intelligence, in and of itself, we’ll eventually face a crisis of sorts. But, if we value making the most of our intelligence, we are resilient. Applying this framework to Charlie, there’s much less to be sad about. He made the most of the intelligence he was gifted, and that’s what really matters.
- erybodyknows 4y agoI just read this story for the first time and gathered similar insights on character, intelligence, and personal excellence. What stood out to me most was that he consistently tried to excel with what he was given. To do better for himself, and to help those around him. Another point that stood out to me is that from his most gifted vantage point, he correctly identifies the all too human fallibility of his Scientific Observers. Jealousy, greed, and feelings of inferiority.
- svat 4y ago> If we value intelligence, in and of itself, we’ll eventually face a crisis of sorts. Related, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Is_Water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Is_Water — > […] pretty much anything else you worship will eat you alive. If you worship money and things, if they are where you tap real meaning in life, then you will never have enough, never feel you have enough. It’s the truth. Worship your body and beauty and sexual allure and you will always feel ugly. And when time and age start showing, you will die a million deaths before they finally grieve you. On one level, we all know this stuff already. It’s been codified as myths, proverbs, clichés, epigrams, parables; the skeleton of every great story. The whole trick is keeping the truth up front in daily consciousness. > Worship power, you will end up feeling weak and afraid, and you will need ever more power over others to numb you to your own fear. Worship your intellect, being seen as smart, you will end up feeling stupid, a fraud, always on the verge of being found out.
- travelling_54 4y agoI guess Flowers for Algernon might be considered science fiction, but in any case it was set in the future (1965). The original short story was published in 1959. Maybe should change the title of this entry?
- gHA5 4y agoSee also "Flowers for Charlie", S9E8 of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia https://m.imdb.com/title/tt2999352/ https://m.imdb.com/title/tt2999352/
- abcanthur 4y agoFor a very similar but different up and down story arc that both makes one appreciate the value of one's own mental faculties, and stirs compassion for those with diminished abilities, I highly recommend the movie "Awakenings." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awakenings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awakenings De Niro and Robin Williams, based on an Oliver Sacks book, which I haven't read but it probably great.
- jcadam 4y agoToo sad to watch more than once.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y agoIt’s fine, I’m the next episode Charlie goes back to bashing rats.
- JohnJamesRambo 4y agoOne of my very favorite books. Read at a young age; it would be hard to say what parts of myself are me and what parts came from this book and became me.
- openbrian 4y agoSee also the 1992 film https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lawnmower_Man_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lawnmower_Man_(film)
- the_af 4y agoInteresting that this movie bears no relation at all to the Stephen King short story of the same title on which it claimed to be based. (In the short story, the titular lawnmower man is a faun-likely creature, working for the god Pan, who literally eats the lawn's grass with his own mouth)
- floehopper 4y agoI first heard this as a radio play on BBC Radio4 back in 1991! * Metadata: https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/05b414af4bfa4923b9c9c3bc2257d5ef https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/05b414af4bfa4923b9c9c3bc2257d5ef * Audio: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=602882533671599 https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=602882533671599
- bookofjoe 4y agoA Canticle For Leibowitz (1959) [pdf] https://d-pdf.com/book/3997/read https://d-pdf.com/book/3997/read
- jcadam 4y agoExcellent novel, had to buy it in hardcopy because it wasn't available on kindle.
- binbag 4y agoWhat a great novel.
- radicalbyte 4y agoI read this book as part of me GCSE English in the UK. It's the only book they had which I enjoyed and, like many others, it had a big impact on me. It's up there with being taught about the evils of modern history: Nazi's, Chile, Yemen, Slavery, Thatcher, Rand, Holodomor, Leopald II, various Chinese genocide, European genocides in both Americas.. That should be a part of the education of everyone living in free and democratic societies.
- dontbenebby 4y ago>That should be a part of the education of everyone living in free and democratic societies. This and Cat's Cradle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Cradle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Cradle
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- blader 4y agoTed Chiang wrote a short story inspired by Flowers for Algernon ("Understand") that explores what might happen if a guy just never stopped getting smarter: https://web.archive.org/web/20140527121332/http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/under.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20140527121332/http://www.infini... I love Flowers for Algernon, but Understand is my favorite short story of all time.
- uniqueuid 4y agoChiang is great. His collection of short stories - exhalation - is a ton of fun.
- mati365 4y agoMine too but I was always wondering why haven't the main character mind been used by scientist to improving method used in book?
- SamBam 4y agoI adore most of Chiang's work, but Understand is one of my least favorites. Fun premise, yes, but it reads to me like much less mature sci-fi, like something written by a teen about what being super-smart would feel like.
- darkerside 4y agoYou probably just didn't get it. Just kidding
- cwillu 4y ago“You're not good at ‹game›, you just do random things for an hour and then you randomly win.” --words I've heard
- 1123581321 4y agoWas this Twilight Imperium? :)
- ncmncm 4y agoCompare Wilmar Shiras, "in Hiding" (1948) and David Palmer, "Emergence" (1981).
- pmoriarty 4y agoIf you liked the story don't ever read the book. The author apparently felt the story didn't have enough sex in it, so he added a bunch of it to the book, along with a big helping of Freudian analysis. Ugh...
- jwmcq 4y agoFully agreed. There seemed to be a trend in mid-20th century sci-fi for authors to expand short stories into full books, and I've yet to find an example where the novel was an improvement.
- johnny_reilly 4y agoThis book changed me. I was an idle eight year old, and my school didn't give us homework to do. So my father decided to set me homework of his own devising, which on one occasion was reading Flowers for Algernon. I was moved by the story of a man who had little natural ability, straining to make the best of what he had. Then becoming smarter than everyone around him, and then what follows. There's many things to take from this story. I took away that we should make the best of what we have. To do otherwise is to miss out. Never take what you have for granted. Everything is a blessing; don't waste it.
- psbp 4y agoI was always insecure about my intelligence and I remember coming away with this same idea from the book. Life is really just a series of experiences. You don't need to meet a certain standard or qualify yourself in order to have positive experiences or to have an impact. We often place so much emphasis on comparison and measuring our success/potential that we miss the whole process of living.
- dontbenebby 4y agoAgreed, there are people who follow metrics and those who are studied to generate new ones. (Strive to be in the latter category.)
- DaiPlusPlus 4y ago> I took away that we should make the best of what we have. As someone on the spectrum, no.
- upwardbound 4y agoI have a miscellaneous question in case you happen to have a perspective. Do you think it might be potentially ambiguous to use the general term "the spectrum" to refer only to the asperger's/autism spectrum? Human minds are wonderfully diverse, and I feel like it might downplay that diversity if we make it sound like there is only one spectrum of genetically-linked mental phenotypes. As some examples: - eidetic memory - depression - perfect pitch And much more. I've always wanted to ask this and was wondering if you had thoughts on this?
- amai 4y agoIt is the story of growing up as a kid, then becoming a smart adult, and then growing old and stupid again condensed to a much shorter time frame. That is why everyone can relate to it in some way.
- eranation 4y agoIs this a short story that predated the full novel? Flowers for Algernon that I read was 300 pages or so... what am I missing?
- _tom_ 4y agoYes. It was later expanded to a novel. And then a movie.
- djsavvy 4y agoThis story hit me hard when I read it as a kid. When I was young, I read another story with a similar emotional texture that I've been trying to find again for years now. It had a mentally challenged boy who worked in a restaurant with a lobster tank in the front, and the boy loved the lobster as a pet and stopped the restaurant staff from killing and serving the lobster. But one day when the boy was gone the lobster was killed. I don't remember much but I've been looking for it for ages. I hope I can find it and read it again someday.
- ginnungagap 4y agoThis is probably enough information for the folks at the Science Fiction & Fantasy Stackexchange (https://scifi.stackexchange.com/ https://scifi.stackexchange.com/) to identify the story, they get similar story identification requests all the time and are crazy good at it. If you do ask make sure to include approximately when you read it and please let me know, I'm curious about your story too now!
- TedDoesntTalk 4y agoPleas post it in a reply if you find out the name. My son loves lobsters and I’d like to get it for him.
- _tom_ 4y agoReddit tip of my tongue is also good for IDing old stories.
- killerstorm 4y agoWhat hits me hard is that the author emphasized that Charlie had the strongest emotional connection with Algernon, the mouse. I guess the reason for that is not only that Charlie saw himself in Algernon, as they were in a similar situation. But Algernon was the only being which did judge Charlie and his IQ.
- rufus_foreman 4y agoSpace Needle did the music for this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO1XhVV61ck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO1XhVV61ck. Which is weird because I don't really consider them to be a 60's band.
- virtualwhys 4y agoOdd, was just having lunch with a friend and asked if he'd ever read this book -- low and behold, here it is on HN. This is the short story version, but I've read the book several times. It's not Tolstoy level literature, but I find myself drawn into this beautiful story of life, death, and compassion again and again.
- ricardolopes 4y agoI remember reading this book in my teenage years and being moved by its story. I still think about it, and it's one I'd definitely recommend. I wonder how it got to the top of hn all of a sudden though.
- dmitrygr 4y agoAbsolutely my favorite story and my favorite reply to anyone who says that ignorance is bliss. It is only so if you have never tried the other alternative - knowing. After knowing, ignorance is not bliss. Knowing poisons happiness forever.
- awinter-py 4y agowith perks of being a wallflower, belongs to a very strong subgenre of epistolary novels by narrators named charlie
- dontbenebby 4y agoI tire of seeing this book stanned, and I'm gonna take a pause from working on this Beamer presentation to say why. I wrote an essay about being twice exceptional a while back[0,1], and no one has ever made any substantial effort to make up for the wrongs from that period, instead treating a string of precarious, low paying, but "prestigous" roles as some kind of reward instead of a series of scams to enrich folks richer and whiter than I am. I see the same circular discussions around it every time it comes up, and we need to break that cycle, ASAP. I discovered Keyes around the time I used to get book recommendations from an anarchist I'd run into in the smoker's pit at a Catholic liberal arts college in the suburbs of Pittsburgh, because I was being handed a slew of medications rather than autonomy and respect for my dignity, so I'd smoke a bunch to offset the effects of medications I should have never been prescribed so I could study enough to pass my more quanitative classes, since I'd never taken things like geometry in a room free from being beaten bloody. On my end, due to COVID and a general feeling of hopelessness, I used up the last of my social capital getting section 231[2] passed, in homage to the anarchist who told me student government and voting are useless when if we could just solve this issuer that for many folks, they become radicalized by the fact that no amount of learning will overcome algorithmic bias. I worry when I see the same discussions repeated over and over that privileged folks do not understand how precarious their positions are, and how bad things can get if you do not learn from past mistakes and/or adjust to new opinion polling data if it's accurate but doesn't mesh with your views on what should be the foundations of geopolitics or whatever. Back around the time of the G20, I knew lots of people who'd say don't do government, student or otherwise don't vote, none of it matters. Then they'd do things like be so stern about being antinuclear, the only "progressive" candidate is really just a pro-fracking, pro-policing populist riding the coattails of those who rose to prominence after Woodstock or whatever with "libertarian" policies that often seem structured to ensure some set of folks is forever precarious and thus, forever beholden to some weird weed with ties to the Boys from Brazil or whatever[3,4], as supposedly smart supposedly privileged autists like myself sit waiting to be "discovered" like one of Jean Luc Brunel's models[9]. I cannot emphasize enough how utterly infuriating it is to sit with latex open in one window, a script you wrote in the second, and a set of pdfs in the other that the intersection of few people on the planet could parse in the 3rd through Nth, and an inbox full of suggestions on things like which minimum wage location might be willing to pay a fair wage for a dishwasher while you learn to control your anxiety through some crack PsyD when the core issue you have is the same you've had since the last recession -- lack of reoccuring income paired with the perpetual trauma of always being the wrong type of special to be given stability and freedom. As always, I'm happy to send a CV and code samples to anyone sincerely looking to interview candidates, but I make posts like this because a string of people interviewed me in good faith, and either ignored the advice and got angry when I pointed out their systems suffered breaches[5,6], disasters[7], or (wo)man made catastrophes[8] after they ignored what I said after they asked for my thoughts... or took it, ran with it, and enriched themselves without ever actually hiring me, but I won't cite them -- I'll settle for backing their opponents in private until I can remind them I told them about Metcalfe's law[9] years ago. (The era of treating interviews like free consulting sessions is over, I'll sell every stock in my IRA and move to a bunker in Bologna before I let this pattern continue another year -- but thanks for the PDF and the discussion space, let's see if folks seize this opportunity to engage in lateral thinking rather than reply like robots. ;-) ) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twice_exceptional https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twice_exceptional [1] https://boingboing.net/2013/01/05/pedagogyofthedepressed.html https://boingboing.net/2013/01/05/pedagogyofthedepressed.htm... [2] https://ballotpedia.org/Pittsburgh,_Pennsylvania,_Independent_Citizen_Police_Review_Board_Charter_Amendment_(November_2020) https://ballotpedia.org/Pittsburgh,_Pennsylvania,_Independen... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fetterman#Policing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fetterman#Policing [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fetterman#Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fetterman#Israel [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management_data_breach https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SolarWinds#2019%E2%80%932020_supply_chain_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SolarWinds#2019%E2%80%932020_s... [7] https://web.archive.org/web/20210316185708/https://www.bbvausa.com/go/simple.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210316185708/https://www.bbvau... [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube_headquarters_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube_headquarters_shooting [9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe's_law [9] https://www.npr.org/2022/02/19/1081961087/jeffrey-epstein-jean-luc-brunel-dead https://www.npr.org/2022/02/19/1081961087/jeffrey-epstein-je...
- sslapec 4y agoMy elder brother is mentally challenged due to lack of oxygen when he was born. I had this idea a few years ago of how would he experience the world if he'd suddenly become healthy. How would he deal with his previous life, etc. I once mentioned my thoughts to my boss during a lunch and he told me there's already a novel about it. That's how I've discovered Flowers for Algernon.
- dontbenebby 4y agoSorry about your brother, I had a friend die waiting on an organ transplant when I was in single digits and I have no siblings. People focus a lot of things like being nice regardless of race or social class, but trauma holds you back and no algorithm takes it into account that I've seen, just measures things to the side. I'm glad you had a supportive leader who gave you something enriching for the soul to read.
- sslapec 4y agoThat's kind, thank you. I'm sorry for your friend. I hope you did cope with the trauma somehow.
- dontbenebby 4y agoI'm glad you thought it was kind, I try to be when I can. We were in single digits, agewise. Appalachian youths, forever at risk, but this was before the internet became what it is now. At first I coped by trying to get people to opt in to organ donation, because he had been waiting for a liver. Then later I tried to get people registered to vote, so we could change the system that traumatized us. And finally, after many years of being a peaceful activist, I put the word out that if they are going to seize power and never return it, then every promise made to that day is void and someone like me might make every piece of electronics in their McMansions or municipalities fail like they're cameras in Metropolitan Correctional Center just before they get in the ground with Jeffrey Epstein if that's what it takes to ensure folks never abuse their access ever again. (In short: I coped with it by becoming a dissident, but that does not bring you joy, and I very purposefully avoided working with anyone under 18 on these matters because it is unethical to teach children that such a life is cool or fun, rather than a path that should be chosen as an absolute last resort.)
- ms4720 4y agoThat was one of the most tragic Greek tragedies I saw or read
- Banana699 4y agoOne of the few books (perhaps the only) that made me cry against my will. It almost made me cry uncontrollably again now when one comment quoted a section with the protoganist writing. I think it was one key building block that made me an anti-natalist. It made me hate existence, it filled me with rage about how unfair genetics and evolution in general are.
- adroitboss 4y agoThis book was on my reading list in 9th grade! I cried at the end. I felt for the main character all throughout the book.
- DrTung 4y agoLong time ago I read a novel called Brain Wave by Paul Anderson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_Wave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_Wave (it predates Flowers for Algernon by about 10 years). It has a similar theme of suddenly acquired intelligence but for the whole planet. I you like Flowers for Algernon you'll like Brain Wave.
- sandworm101 4y agoI always hated this story. For me, the underlying theme is one of class and social structure. The illiterate man is lifted above his situation by science. He is then hammered back down. This is a story about how science cannot change the underlying "natural" state of a person. It is a lesson for scientists about not messing with god-given realities. I also don't like the linking of one's job to one's intelligence. The two are rarely directly related. The opposite to Flowers for Algernon is Captain America. A weak man is improved by science and goes on to be the champion of his nation: Science overcomes nature and God-given limitations can be overcome by government-backed scientific wonders.
- tyingq 4y agoEverybody has their own take. There's a way to interpret the book where you see that traits like kindness might be more important than intelligence.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- bdowling 4y ago> The opposite to Flowers for Algernon is Captain America. They're not opposites, they're orthogonal. Flowers for Algernon is a science fiction story. Science fiction stories are usually (always?) about how the human experience is affected by some hypothetical new technology. The new technology often has a fatal flaw or unexpected consequences. The stories are often tragic. Captain America, on the other hand, is not science fiction. Captain America is a comic superhero and his stories are usually (always?) heroic adventures. Heroic adventures follow a predictable pattern beginning with a call to adventure and ending with the hero returning home having slain the dragon.
- angrais 4y agoYour second paragraph: could it not be summarised as "fantasy" and thus sci-fi Vs fantasy?
- sandworm101 4y ago
- fritztastic 4y agoWe read this in 8th grade, and I remember connecting to it very deeply. I think I related to it because when I was very young I was mostly oblivious to the people around me, I lived in my own imagination a lot of the time- probably to escape the traumatic reality I was living in. When I grew older I began to be more aware of people around me, at first I I was very naïve but slowly grew to realize some of the people I sought validation and acceptance from were cruel, sometimes through indifference, negligence, or abusiveness. I cared very deeply about many things, and I used to believe this was something everyone felt. It was an incredibly painful experience to invest so much effort in order to begin to interact with others, only to find a reality drastically different than what I had when I was sheltered in my mind. Reading that story resonated with my sense of loss, alienation, and being ridiculed for things that were beyond my control. There were times I wished I could hide in my mind and regain my ability to tune everything out, and the story spoke to me very personally when I read it even though it wasn't until many uears later that I understood why.
- timoth3y 4y agoThis book really it me hard when I read it as a kid. When I re-read it as an adult it was still amazing and a very different, more subtle work. I think the reason it resonates so much with the young adult audience is that Charlie represents the life they are just starting to go though. We all start out helpless, ignorant, and dependent. We grow into our primes and achieve amazing things. We then lose our abilities and facilities as we age and become dependent again. But through all these changes, who am I? What makes me a good and worthwhile person when my abilities change and no one else really understands?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- dingosity 4y agoOh man. I remember reading this in elementary school. It reinforced my suspicion that adults were cruel monsters inhabiting human bodies.
- at_a_remove 4y agoI recall a short story, back from the splatterpunk era, named "Mind/Matter." It starts off with a young man, brilliant in his own way, watching his mother die of Alzheimer's at a tremendously young age. Fast forward to him as an adult, and he is already suffering from the effects, but he is stewarded by an expert system he programmed that guides him by pager prompts and such. He is able to manage a career as a screenwriter by recycling old scripts and a bank of pre-written scripts, with occasional periods of lucidity. He lucks onto an experimental treatment in another country designed for his sort of problem and experiences a "Flowers for Algernon" effect, only highly accelerated, having literally minutes of first clarity, then super-human intellect ...
- stakkur 4y agoAround second grade, something odd happened to me: I discovered I had a photographic memory. For a while I was a trick pony who could read an entire book page once then recite it verbatim. I couldn't understand why other people couldn't do this. Then, a year or so later...it stopped. Not all at once; it became gradually harder and harder to do it, and one day I realized the ability was gone. As all of this was happening, I happened to read Flowers for Algernon. It gripped me, and for many years I was afraid that the same thing was happening/would happen to me...I'd gradually become 'dumber and dumber' until I couldn't do anything. It scared the hell out of me. As an adult in my 50s, I sometimes have random episodes of 'photographic' memory--I'll recall a page from book I read years ago, or an entire conversation from high school. I can't control it--it's entirely random. Seeing this book again brings back a mild echo of that anxiety I had about it. To this day, I just can't read it again.
- anjel 4y agoEidetic memory is rare, somewhat controvercial but always found in children who grow out of the ability, much like how children lose the ability to learn a 2nd 3rd and 4th language without an foreign accent up until 12 years +/-. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidetic_memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidetic_memory
- beermonster 4y agoI read this after it coming to my attention via the hit TV show 'Person of Interest'. Really liked it (and the TV show).
- rincebrain 4y agoI've not read this, despite many people I trust suggesting it to me, because I am familiar at a high level with the flow of the story, and having once experienced a vaguely similarly unfortunate event[1] to the latter half, I do not want to see how I react to reading it unless I am prepared to burn a lot of time on the emotional fallout. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16849999 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16849999
- fweimer 4y agoWhat confused me a lot that I remember seeing this as a movie, but it was not the 1968 version or the 2000 TV remake. There is a French remake that's not referenced on the English-language Wikipedia page (Des fleurs pour Algernon, from 2013 or 2014, it's distinct from 2006 version). It's kind weird when you remember something and the Internet appears to be telling you that it doesn't actually exist.
- pwpw 4y agoOften, if you go to the native language page of Wikipedia, there will be more "relevant" material. See if the page in French has that info. If you don't read French particularly well, you can use Google Translate on the page. I often do this to get a better understanding of local legends and stories that aren't big enough to make it to the article in English. But perhaps you know all that. To your point, it is weird! The internet is a vast collection of knowledge and information but things that don't get recalled or engaged with often enough get pushed down and eventually completely forgotten. It's sort of like the human recollection of memories.
- MollyRealized 4y agohttps://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuperIntelligence https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuperIntelligenc...