25 ms·

Laundry symbols make no sense

260 points by allenwhsu 4y ago

ruined 4y ago
come on, there's like four verbs here, and the annotations are intuitive if you have the context. just because you never do your own laundry doesn't mean the rest of us don't know what's up. they make more sense than most mobile UIs, and there's usually text with them anyway.
Melatonic 4y ago
Some aspects are improved - some are not. I cannot imageine the tiny tiny numbers inside the washing machine are going to print well. But the washing machine logo in general makes more sense?
oneplane 4y ago
I wonder if the reason they don't make sense is the lack of common appliances and 'plastic dry cleaning covers' around the globe. Every iron has a dot-based temperature setting (alongside others, generally), but not everyone knows what a mercury thermometer looks like or if that means 'temperature setting'.
Pakdef 4y ago
The re-designed ones are much harder to "read"
andrew_ 4y ago
I liked the case study, but I think what the author is missing is that the symbols in use today accommodate many different printing techniques across the garment and textile industries. If everything was done using sublimation, then sure, you could use more complex symbols. But that's not the case.
Izkata 4y ago
Speaking of bad design, who thought it was a good idea to blink the labels in the animation, immediately after saying half of people asked knew none of the symbols?
- p1mrx 4y ago
  Here are the frames with text: https://imgur.com/a/cP52BPP https://imgur.com/a/cP52BPP
  - philliphaydon 4y ago
    Thanks for this. I thought I noticed an error and was able to see. The 70/60 degree temp icons both say 70 in the text below. :D
- Cd00d 4y ago
  Agreed. I had to watch the animation cycle a dozen times to address my curiosity on what the current symbols mean. Should have been two images like below, but with the text.
- naravara 4y ago
  Also it seems like if the intent of the logos is to be easily looked up for reference, the real UX failure is in the washing machines rather than the tags. Why don't the machines just stamp a reference table by the control panel?
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  Downvote and move on from low quality posts
  - ARandomerDude 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
kgermino 4y ago
Some of these are better (the bleach one being the most obvious) but most of them are worse or neutral. If I don't know what a line under the washing machine means, how am I supposed to know what the 2nd button means. The line is at least more visible. It's similar for the iron. Maybe dots as temperature isn't obvious, but it's about as clear as the thermometer, is easy to read, and matches the icons on the iron itself.
- bigtones 4y ago
  The original dry-clean and do not dry-clean ones are the most confusing for me. A plain circle is somehow meant to represent dry-cleaning ?
  - Izkata 4y ago
    Compare to the other symbols in that set: a square refers to the drying process, with the contents being how to dry it. A circle instead of a square means no drying process, so it shouldn't get wet in the first place - hence dry-cleaning. At least that's how I see it, it could also just have been the last obvious symbol remaining after square/triangle were taken.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Since dry-cleaning isn't "dry" (it still uses liquids, just not water) it should be a simple drop of water symbol with the universal "NO" bar across it like this: https://www.istockphoto.com/vector/blue-drop-or-droplet-of-water-in-forbidding-crossed-out-red-circle-gm1219499249-356736772 https://www.istockphoto.com/vector/blue-drop-or-droplet-of-w...
      - mook 4y ago
        That makes "do not dry clean" difficult, since it'll effectively be a double negative. (I do think the circle is difficult, but that's probably because I don't typically wear clothes that one would think about dry cleaning)
zcw100 4y ago
" these symbols are designed to be memorized or looked up" ok so include it on the front of your washing machine and dryer. " stroke width was increased so the overall shapes can still be read when details are lost to the viewing distance or blurred visions" Increasing the stroke width isn't going to overcome this and the symbols have to be durable enough to still be read after the tag is worn and faded.
detritus 4y ago
Within a second of seeing the 'improved' ones I spot what is, to my mind at least, an immediate failure - the detail resolution is far too small. It doesn't account for the printing limitations on small fabric tags, never mind the ability of old fogeys such as myself to be able to squint that hard and actually read them. I have no idea even looking on my screen here what the difference between the first three is supposed to be, and the numerals in the three thereafter are only legible because I'm staring at a bright screen, not swearing into the void in my laundry room, trying to find a better light. All that aside, I feel I'd still have to look their new interpretations up. International visual vernacular .. doesn't really exist.
- carlmr 4y ago
  I think they are a lot more intuitive than the old ones, but I'd need to look up some stuff. I don't know what's the difference between normal, perm press and delicate for example. Or why the 3 knobs on the washing machine should represent it The flask for bleach, and the drying symbols are much clearer though. The detail in some is a bit too high for some clothing tags, I'd agree on that.
  - semi-extrinsic 4y ago
    Speaking of bleach though - when was the last time anyone here used bleach while washing clothes? I have never in my entire life done so.
    - csixty4 4y ago
      I use it all the time. In fact I was staying at an airbnb recently and my hair dye stained all his towels and pillow cases (a week after I got it done!) so I gave them a good bleaching before I left and left them sparkling white.
    - p_l 4y ago
      Maybe not regularly, as bleach is quite damaging to fabric and others, but often enough to have a bottle of bleach available in laundry room
pimlottc 4y ago
It’s a decent start, but without testing, there’s no evidence that these icons are any better than the originals. I’m not sure that they even meets the authors own objectives — there are more small details that are harder to resolve at small sizes and likely would be harder to print clearly. They also aren’t any more “googleable” than the originals. Lastly, they also assume that users are familiar with front loading washing machines, which may not be common in some places. It could easily be interpreted as a tumble dryer.
- blowski 4y ago
  Agreed. I wonder whether something like a QR code that takes you to a page with instructions is more simple as a solution. Hook that up to a smart washing machine, and it will set the appropriate instructions, or tell you if you have an incompatible load. All that said, I've been ignoring the labels for years, and never had a problem.
  - Izkata 4y ago
    A better solution apparently already exists: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31824399 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31824399
bowsamic 4y ago
It is strange to me how the author praises the aesthetics of the original designs and then goes on to produce such an ugly set of symbols
kqr 4y ago
Huh. I'm not the one doing laundry in our household, and I still know all the four symbols that were hand-drawn on the paper there. To remember that the circle is dry cleaning it helps to know that it can circumscribe letters indicating what type of dry cleaning process is allowed. The tumble dry symbol just looks like a tumble dryer, and the washing symbol the same. Bleach is the tricky one but can be remembered because it's not one of the others.
graypegg 4y ago
The difference between their “Mild drying process” and “normal drying process” is nearly impossible to perceive on a screen with the only difference being a few extra pixels on a thermometer. Pretty important to understand the difference between those if you like clothes that fit. I wonder why they felt it necessary to keep everything as a single icon? Wouldn’t be as impossible to print/stitch or read if the icons were larger nouns + modifiers.
hulitu 4y ago
> Laundry symbols make no sense So I redesigned them, with all due respect. Another failed GUI designer. If it worked for so many years, a lot of people are familiar with them. Why repeat the Windows GUI experience ? I get that the first phones were slow and doing things in Java didn't help and recognizing that the GUI is crap would not help with market adoption, but let's not pretend that Material design or reinventing a GUI every two years is innovative.
- phailhaus 4y ago
  > If it worked for so many years, a lot of people are familiar with them The thesis is that they don't work, at all. I have to look them up every time because they are absolutely inscrutable today. Laundry symbols are rarely looked at for most folks, so they have to be maximally communicative. It's not good enough if the only people that know what they mean are those that deal with them constantly.
  - replygirl 4y ago
    - NikolaNovak 4y ago
      Not the op, but I'm an old straight male and the laundry queen of the household. If it doesn't go into Normal Cold Wash / Low heat tumble dry, it has no place in our household - life is too short! :)
jacknews 4y ago
To me the redesign shows how good the originals were. Eg, in some cases the redesign uses the 'dots' motif for strength of effect, and yet in others it uses a 'thermometer'. Just inconsistent, and actually even less intuitive.
nsxwolf 4y ago
The glass thermometer in 2022 seems a bit like using a 3.5" floppy disk as a save icon, and I don't think it would show up very well on a tiny clothing tag.
- smegsicle 4y ago
  "trying to come up with a better save symbol than a floppy disk is like trying to come up with a better temperature symbol than a mercury thermometer" i agree with this part of your premise (and also that a thermometer would be hard to read on a tiny tag)
Apreche 4y ago
I just have a symbol guide printed out and laminated next to the laundry machine. After referencing it enough times eventually you memorize it. No big deal.
- Swenrekcah 4y ago
  I don't do this yet but this was my first reaction to seeing this page. The originals are a bit cryptic when you don't know them, but simple and easy to memorize and even easier to match against a printed sheet next to your washing machine. I will go and make one sheet for me now. In fact, this is the stuff that should be part of a high-school curriculum!
- itisit 4y ago
  I can totally get behind the value of a design exercise in revisiting popular symbols, but one thing I rarely (and unfortunately) see is an admission that the originals are better. Tags wear out and tag print size varies, which the originals account for in their simple distinguishable shapes. And the learning curve is negligible, as you allude to. This post reminds me of when a junior dev refactors a bit of code that they now find to be well-crafted and intelligible simply because it came from their own mind. However, the result is often just as esoteric and convoluted, or it's even worse!
jerojero 4y ago
As someone else points out, it would be best if these were included in the washing machine in some form. Printed somewhere. In reality these icons are quite good and once you know the "basics" it is easy to know which one stands for what, so I think in terms of design they are actually quite clever. In fact, now that I've seen the meaning of each one of them I think I might start to recognise them better :)
hoosieree 4y ago
What's the big deal, these are all very intuitive: no triangles adidas square one squared new document minus equality pig snout squaring the circle an eye looking through a square hole square minus do not square the circle iron iron. iron.. iron... iron deficiency n/a please fill in the entire circle or your answer will not be counted
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
eddyg 4y ago
In the mean time, thank goodness for apps like Laundry Lens! https://apps.apple.com/us/app/laundry-lens/id1513767864 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/laundry-lens/id1513767864
- kergonath 4y ago
  It’s a great one, thanks!
ThinkingGuy 4y ago
For me the biggest problem with laundry symbols is that they're often printed so small that after a few washes they become too blurry to recognize. Also, while I can feel with my hand whether water is "cold," "warm," or "hot." I honestly have no idea what the actual temperature of the water in my washer is in degrees Celsius. Furthermore, I live in the US (which is not where any of my clothes are made), so there's the added step of trying to convert the degrees from Celsius to Fahrenheit.
- masklinn 4y ago
  > Also, while I can feel with my hand whether water is "cold," "warm," or "hot." I honestly have no idea what the actual temperature of the water in my washer is in degrees Celsius. The explicit temperatures are for machine washing, don't you just... set the washing temperature to whatever you want? If you're washing by hand, it's unlikely that you're washing above 40C, and that's if you like hurting yourself: at 50C (120F) serious burns take about 10mn, at 60C (140F) it's around 3 seconds.
  - jrochkind1 4y ago
    My US market washing machine has settings for "hot", "warm", and "cold", but if there's a way to set temperature to a number, it is not intuitive and I am not aware of it (it may exist this is a 'digital' machine!). If it did have a way to set a wash temp to an arbitrary number, it would presumably be in F not C! I think this is typical for US washing machines? Do (eg) European washing machines instead typically have you set wash temp to an arbitrary number of °C?
    - cameronh90 4y ago
      All washing machines I've used in the UK have a temperature selector dial. They usually offer a number of presets such as 30c, 40c, 60c and 90c.
      - jrochkind1 4y ago
        Interesting! I don't believe that's how USA washing machines work, they usually just say "hot", "warm", and "cold". Apparently USAians are washing machine philistines who don't need more than three temperatures and don't know what they are? Anyway, this shows another challenge in these icons, the international diversity of washing techniques and technology. (Edit: I found one possible answer online -- Euro washing machines may actually have water heaters built in, while American washing macchines may just use the existing house "hot water supply". So Euro machines can heat to desired temp, while American ones just have to take what they get! Why THAT was done that way, I don't know, difference in hot water heating technology choices? Euro houses don't usually have a central "hot water tank" like US has? Why THAT is would be yet another question...).
AnotherGoodName 4y ago
I don't check except for the occasional fancy shirt and even then it's only for iron temperature which is clear enough. Dyes, machines and laundry detergent all changed for the better. I haven't inadvertently made things pink in 20 years now. The red now holds. Even new jeans come prewashed. My machine seems to be much gentler too.
londons_explore 4y ago
Laundry symbols make no sense... So let's get rid of them! Let's simply make all clothes compatible with a regular wash and tumble dry process. If the clothes use a dye that isn't waterproof, use a different dye. If the fabric is too fragile to withstand spinning, use a stronger fabric. If a material can't withstand the heat of a dryer, use better material. Material science has come so far in the past 100 years that we can meet or exceed the performance of pretty much any of last centuries materials while also being able to make the stuff washable.
- Cd00d 4y ago
  Is this humor? Because the symbols need to be looked up we shouldn't use silk any more??
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  I understand the desire to simplify things you don't understand, but this would never work. You'd have to destroy the entire fashion industry first.
- The-Bus 4y ago
  Just so you understand how this sounds to someone who works in (or cares about) apparel: Computers make no sense! So let's simplify them. Let's just have one kind of laptop, desktop, server, and phone. With the same operating system. Why are we still using so many different kinds of computers?
- npteljes 4y ago
  Let's simply centrally mandate one standard that everyone adheres to? In what universe is that simple?
Terry_Roll 4y ago
Now find a washing machine with programs that match the washing symbols, even if its only documented in their manuals. Its not a hard task building a washing machine or tumble dryer that matches the washing symbols, but it seems to be for the current industry leaders!
pydry 4y ago
All this article has really convinced me is that a sticker explaining what all the laundry symbols are would be a good use of the flat top of washing machines/dryers.
- penneyd 4y ago
  Now that's a great idea!
AdamH12113 4y ago
I have always found laundry symbols confusing. I agree with other comments that this proposed replacement has too many problems to be acceptable, but surely someone can do better than "crossed-out triangle", "underlined water cup", "Cylon wearing a jaunty cap", and my personal favorite, "literally just a circle". Weird fact: Despite having been around for decades, laundry symbols have not been assigned Unicode code points. This mailing list email from Ken Whistler in 2003[1] suggests the existence of a conflicting Canadian standard as a reason, along with a philosophy of not including "icons" (especially color-coded ones!) in a "character" set, given that pictographic language is likely to change over the next century. (Unicode threw that out the window in 2010 when they standardized emojis, and given how complex emojis have become Ken's argument is sounding better and better...) [1] http://unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2003-m06/0274.html http://unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2003-m06/0274.html
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  There's nothing wrong with the symbols. Your washing machine is the one that should have a printed table of them somewhere. Take a look on those symbols: "A", "B", "C". A triangle with the basis moved up, two circles with a straight side, and an open circumference arc. They were abstract into complete meaningless, yet they are great for their use-case.
  - robonerd 4y ago
    > Your washing machine is the one that should have a printed table of them somewhere. Neither of my laundry machines have any symbols on their control panels, only printed English. The only symbols I can find on them are the Explosion, Fire, and Shock warning stickers inside the rim of the doors.
    - PebblesRox 4y ago
      I think OP meant "should" as in "ought to" not "should" as in "probably does."
  - nmca 4y ago
amenghra 4y ago
The old ironing symbols were fine and better than the redesigned ones.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Specially when I take my cheapish Iron in hand look at the control and see oh there is 1 dot, 2 dot and 3 dot setting...
IshKebab 4y ago
I think these are definitely better. Especially bleach and dry clean. The originals are too abstract. Unless you memorise them you basically have to look them up every time. Which is probably why most clothes also have English text telling you what to do on the label. The new ones obviously have too small details to print on a typical label but I think that could be fixed fairly easily.
RGamma 4y ago
Ehh after a couple washes these symbols come off completely anyway; bet you can't design around that!
adregan 4y ago
I think I’d argue that it’s beneficial in this case to lean towards abstract figures which must be looked up. What the designer calls intuitive, I might argue is actually easier to misinterpret. One must remember that these are international symbols and the cultural context you bring to interpretation is different from another’s.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Also there is very clear design goal with originals for each being distinct from others. Which explains lot of design.
xwdv 4y ago
Does anyone not care about these symbols? There could be so many permutations of options in a pile of clothing that you’d end up having to do so many loads. I just throw everything in and hope for the best.
- el-salvador 4y ago
  Same for me. Most of the time I have just used the standard wash setting, then air dry if sunny or machine dry if raining. I’m not even sure how temperature influences washing. I’ll have to read about that.
happytoexplain 4y ago
Wow! The new icons have unacceptably small details, and I'm not sure how that's not obvious to even non-designers. And yet the author claims their set puts usability in front of beauty, as opposed to the originals? I don't usually write this negatively, but this really provoked an emotional reaction in me. Self-evidence is only one desirable quality of iconography, and it is not the most important one. Legibility is the most important one. If I can't read the details, or they easily wear off or fade, then it doesn't matter how self-describing they are. Sometimes you have to increase abstraction to increase legibility at the cost of increased learning. This is a common and accepted practice throughout the universe of symbology for excellent reasons. Edit: Another advantage of high legibility is speed. Even if I have a tag where the new symbols are legible, I won't be interpreting them as quickly as the original symbols, under the precondition that I am already familiar with each set of symbols. Edit: I think the reason this provoked me is that I have run into cases where this attitude toward design created bad real world experiences, so I immediately want to warn away from it as soon as I see it even in a hypothetical case.
- Twirrim 4y ago
  Something that seems a bizarre change is the iron one, almost makes me wonder if this is someone that ever irons clothes. Going from dots to a thermometer? 1) Irons have respective dots on them. I can look at the clothes, look at the iron, and turn the temperature dial to the matching setting. I'm not playing guessing games of "where on the dial is 1/3rd?", there's a literal dot that matches the symbol. 2) The temperature symbols now go from easy to distinguish to confusing, especially when smaller and lighting not so great. Is it a 1/3 of the way through? 2/3rs? Counting dots is way, way easier and quicker.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  > If I can't read the details, or they easily wear off or fade, then it doesn't matter how self-describing they are. You can reverse this too. If I never understand what they mean, it doesn’t matter that I can still read them. I mean, I agree there’s too many hard to read details, but the originals are absolutely impenetrable.
  - 4y ago
bricemo 4y ago
To truly call this an improvement, he needs to re-run the evaluation test to see what percentage of respondents can correctly identify the new icons
bluSCALE4 4y ago
Designer must be midwesterner: push button, get bacon.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bluSCALE4 4y ago
  https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.791778944.7289/bg,f8f8f8-flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.791778944.7289/bg,f8f8f8-fla...
peanut_worm 4y ago
The improved ones still seem really vague to me
nimbius 4y ago
Oh you think laundry is bad...let me introduce you to the bane of my apprenticeship... Welding symbols: https://weldingpros.net/welding-symbols/ https://weldingpros.net/welding-symbols/
vr46 4y ago
I think the big mistake here is to assume that the original symbols were the right way of representing the information needed at all. A clear number for temperature on its own, followed by a separate symbol for a machine or a hand would be clearer than piling one onto another.
memorable 4y ago
Alt link: https://scribe.rip/m/global-identity?redirectUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fuxdesign.cc%2Flaundry-symbols-make-no-sense-154a0c10dbe0 https://scribe.rip/m/global-identity?redirectUrl=https%3A%2F...
ARandomerDude 4y ago
Hot take (or cold, delicate take with color-safe bleach if you prefer): if you have to pay attention to the laundry symbols, skip it and buy something else. Find durable clothes that are acceptably fashionable and forget about the laundry headache.
causi 4y ago
The new ones are just as inscrutable as the old ones. How on earth am I supposed to know a washing machine with the middle button of three dark means "permanent press" and the right button of three means "delicate" without looking it up? The new "natural dry" looks like it means "safe for high heat". "Do not bleach" looks more like "do not use detergent". Frankly I think symbols that give you no impression at all are better than symbols that give you the wrong impression.
O__________O 4y ago
Labels are dated, please forget making the icons better. According to Statista, 80% of the world’s population owns a smartphone. Just add a link to the instructions and have translations in plain language that are standardized; that is manufactures/brands just reuse the standard types of instructions that are relevant.
- robjan 4y ago
  What happens when the garment manufacturer or the URL shortener they used to reduce the complexity of the QR code goes out of business? I've experienced this before.
- malfist 4y ago
  That's what we need, always online laundry instructions.
deleted 4y ago
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mhandley 4y ago
Even if they didn't try to pack in too much detail, I still think many of the redesigned symbols are less obvious than the originals. A square with a circle in it - is that the washer or the dryer? They're both boxes with round doors for most people these days. But the tub of water - at least I know intuitively that must mean washing. Similarly a conical flask for bleach - I guess I know that's something chemical, but is it bleach or dry cleaning? Whereas a triangle is always a warning, so it's not hard to associate with the only toxic thing in the laundry room. All irons I've ever used have dots on the temperature scale, not a half-filled old school thermometer, so that's also one that doesn't need improving. I'm not saying there's no room for improvement - the wavy lines for drying are certainly better than another ambiguous box with a circle in it - but many of the originals are pretty good.
jszymborski 4y ago
A lot of these are good, but changing the wash basin to a front-loading washer is a mistake IMHO. There are plenty of people around the world who don't machine wash their clothes, and a water basin feels like the ur-washer, the platonic ideal.
kergonath 4y ago
How are the proposed ones more legible, particularly at small scales? How is embedding a representation of what a washing machine looks like now makes them more universal or recognisable? Despite the couple of paragraphs pontificating about what good icons should be, most of them are much worse than the cleaner, simpler, older ones. The drying ones are more descriptive, but less legible.
superasn 4y ago
With exception to the bleach symbol I find most of the new and improved symbols hard to read and just as confusing and maybe even worse. Also as other commenters have said it will do a much worse job when the fabric is faded or somebody without a 20/20 vision. I think somebody else needs to take a shot at this again.
RedShift1 4y ago
The original symbols were _engineered_. These new symbols are _designed_. There's a difference, and this falls into the same shortcomings of many modern UI designers: they only design for what appeals to them personally.
pantulis 4y ago
A very interesting exercise, but I believe the old symbols are not that hard to getting acquanted with. My mom explained them to me... what, three decades ago? Of course I don't remember most of them, but I usually buy the same types of clothes so I basically always use the same program. Additionally, laundry & ironing professionals have those symbols more than memorized ;)
cameronh90 4y ago
So many laundry tags have OTT requirements. I have hoodies that claim dry clean only, but of course come out completely fine in the machine. Lots of bras say hand wash only but we've never had any issues with them in the machine either. Generally, we just ignore the labels and put all the clothes in a colour separated wash on the 30c daily eco cycle. If the clothes get damaged - which is rare in a modern non-agitator washing machine - we just don't buy that type of fabric/garment any more. It does reduce the clothing options a little bit, for example, no silk, but it's worth the improved quality of life. Laundry Darwinism. There are a few types of necessary item we do get dry cleaned, such as expensive suits and ball gowns, but at least for us those are rare use. The other thing that has improved our life a lot is only buying non-iron clothing.
- mrcartmeneses 4y ago
  Conversely my t-shirts that claim to be machine washable shrink and need prior knowledge to keep them wearable. The physical world is complex. Interestingly most detergent works great at 30c. Hotter wash temps are for a time before biological enzymes were used as detergent additives.
  - mikestew 4y ago
    The detergent we buy works fine at whatever the water temperature is coming out of the cold side of the tap. I don't know that we even need to have the hot water line connected at our house as I don't recall the last time I used any temperature other than "tap cold" (I'm really curious what plain old "cold" does; is there a chiller in there I don't know about?) I mean, it's not like my chemical engineer classmates were sitting on their asses the last 30 years, modern detergent ain't the stuff your Mom used. And lest one think I'm a dainty flower that doesn't get clothes all that dirty, just last week I was running a trail race, and as I do, caught my foot on a root and went diving downhill straight into a big pile of Pacific Northwest mud. I wasn't sure the mud was going to wash out of my skin, let alone the knee socks and running outfit. One trip through the front loader on cold, and it's like it never happened.
dpratt 4y ago
I would refer the author of this piece to read about Chesterton’s Fence, and then think about it in context of the subject of his article. “There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, ‘I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.’ To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: ‘If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.’”
NullPrefix 4y ago
Original->Redesigned chart didn't have to be a gif
- Solvitieg 4y ago
  Seriously. A great post about bad UX uses bad UX during the climax
JoeAltmaier 4y ago
It's a lost cause, looking for 'intuitive' symbols. It depends on your culture, your experiences, heck your generation. Just look at the symbols for 'save' (a floppy disk) or 'make a call' (an old phone handset). Kids just have to memorize them, they mean nothing 'intuitively'. I liken these attempts at symbol sets, to ancient hieroglyphics - a different picture-writing for everything. Even the Egyptians gave up and turned to phonetic spelling. Just write the instructions on the tag. Or heck, put a 2D scan code there and my phone will tell me what to do.
- roelschroeven 4y ago
  > Just write the instructions on the tag. But then you need different labels for different markets, and even then often lots of different languages on the same label. That's the whole point of using symbols instead: they are universal. At least in theory. In the real world labels do contain instructions in multiple languages, and I do read those instead of trying to decipher the symbols.
aceazzameen 4y ago
The author has a point that a redesign could be more intuitive and understandable. Unfortunately the provided redesigns don't fit the bill. There's some decent ideas here though. The shape of the bleach bottle, the circular motion of the arrows indicating tumble, a thermometer, and a dry cleaning bag. Unfortunately, the execution isn't as good as it should be. The strokes are too thick, and detailing is too crowded. If anything, this is a decent first draft. But I would send it back with notes. The most important one being: less is more. And it's okay to leave existing icons alone that already work. Perhaps redesign within the constraints of the existing style, rather than creating a new style?
the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
While I agree that the original icons are quite confusing they are incredibly googleable and they are also printed in manuals everywhere and super easy to match. More importantly there are apps like Laundry Lens which can reliably detect them and explain them.
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99_00 4y ago
What is the cost/impact of laundry symbols making no sense to people like the author and me? I don't seem to have problems doing laundry despite not understanding the care label.
probably_wrong 4y ago
I wonder whether using a thermometer is a good idea. Mercury thermometers are getting harder to find, which is not great for a symbol expected to last 50 years. Then again, maybe we have another "floppy disk" situation where the concept survives the artifact.
Melatonic 4y ago
In addition to all of these symbols I would like to see just a simple "type 1, type 2, type 3, type 4" OVERALL code added to each thing. If something is a type1 that could mean cold wash machine okay, tumble dry low, iron low/medium. A type 4 could be the fragile stuff - hand wash only cold water, mild detergent, no iron, no tumble dry. These wouldnt encompass everything but at least we could have a very quick guide to memorize.
kleer001 4y ago
Yes, that's how symbols work. Arabic numerals make no sense. Kanji makes no sense. The Roman alphabet makes no sense. Of course, they're symbols. You memorize them. They stand for the object they're pointing at. They're not abstractions meant to represent directly the thing its self. Everyone, stop being so literal. Sheesh.
gorkish 4y ago
I wish more designers would learn how to more objectively assess whether their work will have positive or negative value. It's kind of like how the lesson that tic tac toe taches kids has nothing to do with the strategy of the game. The usual exercise-in-futility assignment for design students is to redesign a toaster or a ladder, but clearly there are a lot of them who don't really get the point.
crispyambulance 4y ago
My whole adult life, I've ignored all laundry labels and just followed recommendations on the dial of the washer also, crucially, I've learned to assiduously avoid attempting to wash or dry any of my wife's clothes as that requires careful inspection of each item with dire consequences for each mistake. Curious about those middle temperature settings. It seems like a lot of levels: 70C, 60C, 50C, 40C. What fabric would be fine at 40C, but 50C would be "too hot"? I mean, I understand that some synthetics or wool would have a problem with extreme heat like 95C, and some might need to be at room temp for color to stay. But beyond that, isn't one "middle level" enough?
antux 4y ago
The new icons are bad. There are small distinguishing details that are hard to notice at small sizes. The icons need to be more simple, concrete, and recognizable.
ibejoeb 4y ago
It's a step up from cuneiform. If you really want people to understand, it should probably be just arabic numerals. They're almost universally understand, and then you can just look it up in your language or print out the chart and put it next to the machine.
zaptheimpaler 4y ago
Maybe we shall replace all these tags with a chip and a laundry basket that sorts all clothes into a few piles and feeds them into a washer with the right settings.
aristofun 4y ago
Is it me or the redesigned ones make equally same sense as original — none?
kukx 4y ago
What about, instead of changing the symbols we add text. Or just teach them at school :) Symbols are great for brevity and aesthetics, but they have to be learned to be useful. Oh I got an idea, what about a QR code with all the info included, you just have to scan it ;)
bandyaboot 4y ago
Every washer and dryer should have the symbols and their meanings right on them. Problem solved.
moralestapia 4y ago
OP has a point but the alternatives he provides are a bit worse from my perspective. Also, why not putting the old and new icons side by side? For an UX designer that is policing on others, the animated GIF that you can't control with a fast transition was a very poor choice.
- mongol 4y ago
  Yes that ruins his entire credibility.
jedberg 4y ago
I have a chart with all the symbols printed out next to the laundry machine. In most cases it's pretty obvious how a fabric should be washed just based on the feel of the material. In cases where it isn't, I've got the chart up in the one place I do laundry. Most launder mats I've been to have the same chart on the wall somewhere. I'm not sure why memorizing is so bad in this case.
butz 4y ago
I'm adding custom NFC tags to all my laundry with encoded washing instructions, color and material data. Placing laundry in "smart" basket will read all data from them (this part is currently more involved, as you need to scan each article of clothing separately), and send instructions to washing machine for most optimal program (that's a problem too, as I do not own "smart" washing machine, yet). If there are some outliers, e.g. black shirt in otherwise white-ish laundry - I will be informed to remove it, for best results.
robonerd 4y ago
The idea of using these symbols instead of printed English is that not everybody speaks English, yes? Well, I don't speak Spanish, but I think if all of these symbols were replaced with printed Spanish words, it would be more useful to me than any of these symbols. I'd figure out what it meant with greater ease than these symbols; at the very least I would be able to look up the meaning. And if you're going to have the symbols and printed text, you might as well omit the symbols entirely. I think both sets of symbols are worthless. I could probably guess what some of them mean if my life depended on it, but I'm not going to. Deciphering symbols is a waste of my time. At least if printed Spanish were used, puzzling out the meaning would actually enrich my life. The symbols are worthless noise and I don't want their meaning wasting space in my brain.
kingofpandora 4y ago
Now can you decide the buttons on my toaster, please?
- robonerd 4y ago
  A single dial labelled 1 through 9.
  - kingofpandora 4y ago
    I wish that's all it had ...
trynewideas 4y ago
the optimism of consistently printing (or stitching!) symbols with this level of detail across fabric types, from printed tags to printed on-fabric to stitched tags, that will also remain readable after frequent wear and cleaning ignoring the existing multiplicity of existing standards (ISO vs. ASTM vs. GINETEX vs. Japan vs. OTEXA/CGSB/Canada) to propose another one, especially when many of the changes he makes were at one point implemented in a non-English-speaking nation for decades[1] and then abandoned for the international standard that he doesn't like redesigning all future clothing to use a new standard that can be confused or conflict with existing standards that will remain in use for decades because no older non-compliant clothing will be immediately destroyed, much less all missing more actionable user-focused solutions that don't require a new standard, such as adding standardized, well-designed, localized symbol keys on points of interaction, like laundry supplies and equipment all leading to a point not of action but to "bring more awareness to the cost" of something the author and his immediate audience personally does not understand, but which is not necessarily broadly misunderstood and for that matter is only believed by the author to be broadly misunderstood because of an out-of-context, entertaining blog post[2] where, for mildly career-connected fun and LinkedIn social engagement, the researcher texted her mom and some personal friends and came to a half-joking conclusion appropriate to the post's mostly unserious tone ("I am predictably going to advocate more user research on the matter") that's neither mentioned nor applied by the author [1] https://www.sbs-zipper.com/blog/japan-implements-new-clothing-care-symbols-with-iso-standards-from-december-1-2016/ https://www.sbs-zipper.com/blog/japan-implements-new-clothin... [2] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/speed-user-research-question-2-do-people-understand-laundry-browne/?trk=read_related_article-card_title https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/speed-user-research-question-...
SkeuomorphicBee 4y ago
The redesign is to much of the author's local iconography, it is less "global" than the original. The worst offender being the representation of a front loading washing machine, while most of the developing world uses top loading washing machines. In my country all those "washing machine" icons would be incorrectly read as tumble dryer icons because here washers are top loaded and dryers are front loaded.
masswerk 4y ago
Just as a reminder: Nothing is context-free. Even, if something may appear self-explanatory to you, there's always convention involved to some degree. E.g., does this symbol mean do not pack the cleaned cloth in a nylon envelope, or does it mean no dry cleaning? Is this an artificial heat source, or "natural dry"? Or is it the smelly process (bleaching)? Is this a closed chemical or recycling process, or tumbling? Also, the dot system is probably easier to identify and discern and more resistant to wear than the depiction of thermometers (which probably only work relative to each other, having something to compare with). Moreover, icons like these are not app icons on the home screen: they do not work best, if they (or their constituting elements) are all of even weight. Eye-sight, lighting conditions and ease of identification are primary aspects of this. Something like this should probably work by a primary context identifier, conveyed by the shape, and a secondary qualifier ("specificator") inside that shape with convenient separating whitespace around it.
leokennis 4y ago
1. Add a QR code to the labels pointing to a “washingstructions://“ scheme 2. Add said scheme to iOS and Android 3. Scan the QR code 4. iOS or Android show the washing instructions in text/icons/images, of course localized
Night_Thastus 4y ago
The GIF changes images very quickly with no way to pause. Hard to see them side by side.
browningstreet 4y ago
I’m traveling right now and had to pin this web page to decipher the symbols on the washing machines in my airbnbs: https://washerhouse.com/en/perevod-terminov/ https://washerhouse.com/en/perevod-terminov/
timeon 4y ago
Does alphabet make sense?
ajhurliman 4y ago
I don’t understand the old symbols, and I don’t understand these redesigned symbols either. Maybe they could just write it out?
pronik 4y ago
The key assumption with this redesign is basically the same as with the old one: we are supposed to immediately understand what this icon is supposed to mean. However, what will our assumptions about things be in about 50 years, which is how long the previous icons existed? Will we even recognize a washing machine with its porthole as such or will it be the case of a 3.5" floppy as a "Save" icon, which has confused people for the last 15 years? And besides that: do we really need new icons? Make an app which will recognize and interpret the icons and you are done without making several gigantic industries replace well-known and well-working pieces of their daily work.
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stjohnswarts 4y ago
I never knew one needed so many laundry symbols. Are clothes that complex in France O_O ? Honestly I never knew there was such a thing...
zekrioca 4y ago
It asks for an account to read the whole article.. (Read the rest of this story with a free account.)
SZJX 4y ago
Not sure why this post is perceived with so much negativity here. I totally agree with the original author that the labels are a disaster. Whether the redesign is very much practical on low resolution is debatable, but I find the general idea commendable. So many comments even straight out dismissing the necessity of the labels altogether, which 1. is not the point at all and 2. would definitely not be the sentiment from those who are actually in charge of the laundry and care about taking care their clothes well over the years. Maybe HN doesn’t necessarily have the intended audience for this kind of post then.

260 points by allenwhsu 4y ago

come on, there's like four verbs here, and the annotations are intuitive if you have the context. just because you never do your own laundry doesn't mean the rest of us don't know what's up. they make more sense than most mobile UIs, and there's usually text with them anyway.

Melatonic 4y ago

Some aspects are improved - some are not. I cannot imageine the tiny tiny numbers inside the washing machine are going to print well. But the washing machine logo in general makes more sense?

oneplane 4y ago

I wonder if the reason they don't make sense is the lack of common appliances and 'plastic dry cleaning covers' around the globe. Every iron has a dot-based temperature setting (alongside others, generally), but not everyone knows what a mercury thermometer looks like or if that means 'temperature setting'.

Pakdef 4y ago

The re-designed ones are much harder to "read"

andrew_ 4y ago

I liked the case study, but I think what the author is missing is that the symbols in use today accommodate many different printing techniques across the garment and textile industries. If everything was done using sublimation, then sure, you could use more complex symbols. But that's not the case.

Izkata 4y ago

Speaking of bad design, who thought it was a good idea to blink the labels in the animation, immediately after saying half of people asked knew none of the symbols?

p1mrx 4y ago
Here are the frames with text: https://imgur.com/a/cP52BPP https://imgur.com/a/cP52BPP
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  Thanks for this. I thought I noticed an error and was able to see. The 70/60 degree temp icons both say 70 in the text below. :D
Cd00d 4y ago
Agreed. I had to watch the animation cycle a dozen times to address my curiosity on what the current symbols mean. Should have been two images like below, but with the text.
naravara 4y ago
Also it seems like if the intent of the logos is to be easily looked up for reference, the real UX failure is in the washing machines rather than the tags. Why don't the machines just stamp a reference table by the control panel?
wahnfrieden 4y ago
Downvote and move on from low quality posts
- ARandomerDude 4y ago
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kgermino 4y ago

Some of these are better (the bleach one being the most obvious) but most of them are worse or neutral. If I don't know what a line under the washing machine means, how am I supposed to know what the 2nd button means. The line is at least more visible. It's similar for the iron. Maybe dots as temperature isn't obvious, but it's about as clear as the thermometer, is easy to read, and matches the icons on the iron itself.

bigtones 4y ago
The original dry-clean and do not dry-clean ones are the most confusing for me. A plain circle is somehow meant to represent dry-cleaning ?
- Izkata 4y ago
  Compare to the other symbols in that set: a square refers to the drying process, with the contents being how to dry it. A circle instead of a square means no drying process, so it shouldn't get wet in the first place - hence dry-cleaning. At least that's how I see it, it could also just have been the last obvious symbol remaining after square/triangle were taken.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Since dry-cleaning isn't "dry" (it still uses liquids, just not water) it should be a simple drop of water symbol with the universal "NO" bar across it like this: https://www.istockphoto.com/vector/blue-drop-or-droplet-of-water-in-forbidding-crossed-out-red-circle-gm1219499249-356736772 https://www.istockphoto.com/vector/blue-drop-or-droplet-of-w...
    - mook 4y ago
      That makes "do not dry clean" difficult, since it'll effectively be a double negative. (I do think the circle is difficult, but that's probably because I don't typically wear clothes that one would think about dry cleaning)

zcw100 4y ago

" these symbols are designed to be memorized or looked up" ok so include it on the front of your washing machine and dryer. " stroke width was increased so the overall shapes can still be read when details are lost to the viewing distance or blurred visions" Increasing the stroke width isn't going to overcome this and the symbols have to be durable enough to still be read after the tag is worn and faded.

detritus 4y ago

Within a second of seeing the 'improved' ones I spot what is, to my mind at least, an immediate failure - the detail resolution is far too small. It doesn't account for the printing limitations on small fabric tags, never mind the ability of old fogeys such as myself to be able to squint that hard and actually read them. I have no idea even looking on my screen here what the difference between the first three is supposed to be, and the numerals in the three thereafter are only legible because I'm staring at a bright screen, not swearing into the void in my laundry room, trying to find a better light. All that aside, I feel I'd still have to look their new interpretations up. International visual vernacular .. doesn't really exist.

carlmr 4y ago
I think they are a lot more intuitive than the old ones, but I'd need to look up some stuff. I don't know what's the difference between normal, perm press and delicate for example. Or why the 3 knobs on the washing machine should represent it The flask for bleach, and the drying symbols are much clearer though. The detail in some is a bit too high for some clothing tags, I'd agree on that.
- semi-extrinsic 4y ago
  Speaking of bleach though - when was the last time anyone here used bleach while washing clothes? I have never in my entire life done so.
  - csixty4 4y ago
    I use it all the time. In fact I was staying at an airbnb recently and my hair dye stained all his towels and pillow cases (a week after I got it done!) so I gave them a good bleaching before I left and left them sparkling white.
  - p_l 4y ago
    Maybe not regularly, as bleach is quite damaging to fabric and others, but often enough to have a bottle of bleach available in laundry room

pimlottc 4y ago

It’s a decent start, but without testing, there’s no evidence that these icons are any better than the originals. I’m not sure that they even meets the authors own objectives — there are more small details that are harder to resolve at small sizes and likely would be harder to print clearly. They also aren’t any more “googleable” than the originals. Lastly, they also assume that users are familiar with front loading washing machines, which may not be common in some places. It could easily be interpreted as a tumble dryer.

blowski 4y ago
Agreed. I wonder whether something like a QR code that takes you to a page with instructions is more simple as a solution. Hook that up to a smart washing machine, and it will set the appropriate instructions, or tell you if you have an incompatible load. All that said, I've been ignoring the labels for years, and never had a problem.
- Izkata 4y ago
  A better solution apparently already exists: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31824399 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31824399

bowsamic 4y ago

It is strange to me how the author praises the aesthetics of the original designs and then goes on to produce such an ugly set of symbols

kqr 4y ago

Huh. I'm not the one doing laundry in our household, and I still know all the four symbols that were hand-drawn on the paper there. To remember that the circle is dry cleaning it helps to know that it can circumscribe letters indicating what type of dry cleaning process is allowed. The tumble dry symbol just looks like a tumble dryer, and the washing symbol the same. Bleach is the tricky one but can be remembered because it's not one of the others.

graypegg 4y ago

The difference between their “Mild drying process” and “normal drying process” is nearly impossible to perceive on a screen with the only difference being a few extra pixels on a thermometer. Pretty important to understand the difference between those if you like clothes that fit. I wonder why they felt it necessary to keep everything as a single icon? Wouldn’t be as impossible to print/stitch or read if the icons were larger nouns + modifiers.

hulitu 4y ago

> Laundry symbols make no sense So I redesigned them, with all due respect. Another failed GUI designer. If it worked for so many years, a lot of people are familiar with them. Why repeat the Windows GUI experience ? I get that the first phones were slow and doing things in Java didn't help and recognizing that the GUI is crap would not help with market adoption, but let's not pretend that Material design or reinventing a GUI every two years is innovative.

phailhaus 4y ago
> If it worked for so many years, a lot of people are familiar with them The thesis is that they don't work, at all. I have to look them up every time because they are absolutely inscrutable today. Laundry symbols are rarely looked at for most folks, so they have to be maximally communicative. It's not good enough if the only people that know what they mean are those that deal with them constantly.
- replygirl 4y ago
  - NikolaNovak 4y ago
    Not the op, but I'm an old straight male and the laundry queen of the household. If it doesn't go into Normal Cold Wash / Low heat tumble dry, it has no place in our household - life is too short! :)

jacknews 4y ago

To me the redesign shows how good the originals were. Eg, in some cases the redesign uses the 'dots' motif for strength of effect, and yet in others it uses a 'thermometer'. Just inconsistent, and actually even less intuitive.

nsxwolf 4y ago

The glass thermometer in 2022 seems a bit like using a 3.5" floppy disk as a save icon, and I don't think it would show up very well on a tiny clothing tag.

smegsicle 4y ago
"trying to come up with a better save symbol than a floppy disk is like trying to come up with a better temperature symbol than a mercury thermometer" i agree with this part of your premise (and also that a thermometer would be hard to read on a tiny tag)

Apreche 4y ago

I just have a symbol guide printed out and laminated next to the laundry machine. After referencing it enough times eventually you memorize it. No big deal.

Swenrekcah 4y ago
I don't do this yet but this was my first reaction to seeing this page. The originals are a bit cryptic when you don't know them, but simple and easy to memorize and even easier to match against a printed sheet next to your washing machine. I will go and make one sheet for me now. In fact, this is the stuff that should be part of a high-school curriculum!
itisit 4y ago
I can totally get behind the value of a design exercise in revisiting popular symbols, but one thing I rarely (and unfortunately) see is an admission that the originals are better. Tags wear out and tag print size varies, which the originals account for in their simple distinguishable shapes. And the learning curve is negligible, as you allude to. This post reminds me of when a junior dev refactors a bit of code that they now find to be well-crafted and intelligible simply because it came from their own mind. However, the result is often just as esoteric and convoluted, or it's even worse!

jerojero 4y ago

As someone else points out, it would be best if these were included in the washing machine in some form. Printed somewhere. In reality these icons are quite good and once you know the "basics" it is easy to know which one stands for what, so I think in terms of design they are actually quite clever. In fact, now that I've seen the meaning of each one of them I think I might start to recognise them better :)

hoosieree 4y ago

What's the big deal, these are all very intuitive: no triangles adidas square one squared new document minus equality pig snout squaring the circle an eye looking through a square hole square minus do not square the circle iron iron. iron.. iron... iron deficiency n/a please fill in the entire circle or your answer will not be counted

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eddyg 4y ago

In the mean time, thank goodness for apps like Laundry Lens! https://apps.apple.com/us/app/laundry-lens/id1513767864 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/laundry-lens/id1513767864

kergonath 4y ago
It’s a great one, thanks!

ThinkingGuy 4y ago

For me the biggest problem with laundry symbols is that they're often printed so small that after a few washes they become too blurry to recognize. Also, while I can feel with my hand whether water is "cold," "warm," or "hot." I honestly have no idea what the actual temperature of the water in my washer is in degrees Celsius. Furthermore, I live in the US (which is not where any of my clothes are made), so there's the added step of trying to convert the degrees from Celsius to Fahrenheit.

masklinn 4y ago
> Also, while I can feel with my hand whether water is "cold," "warm," or "hot." I honestly have no idea what the actual temperature of the water in my washer is in degrees Celsius. The explicit temperatures are for machine washing, don't you just... set the washing temperature to whatever you want? If you're washing by hand, it's unlikely that you're washing above 40C, and that's if you like hurting yourself: at 50C (120F) serious burns take about 10mn, at 60C (140F) it's around 3 seconds.
- jrochkind1 4y ago
  My US market washing machine has settings for "hot", "warm", and "cold", but if there's a way to set temperature to a number, it is not intuitive and I am not aware of it (it may exist this is a 'digital' machine!). If it did have a way to set a wash temp to an arbitrary number, it would presumably be in F not C! I think this is typical for US washing machines? Do (eg) European washing machines instead typically have you set wash temp to an arbitrary number of °C?
  - cameronh90 4y ago
    All washing machines I've used in the UK have a temperature selector dial. They usually offer a number of presets such as 30c, 40c, 60c and 90c.
    - jrochkind1 4y ago
      Interesting! I don't believe that's how USA washing machines work, they usually just say "hot", "warm", and "cold". Apparently USAians are washing machine philistines who don't need more than three temperatures and don't know what they are? Anyway, this shows another challenge in these icons, the international diversity of washing techniques and technology. (Edit: I found one possible answer online -- Euro washing machines may actually have water heaters built in, while American washing macchines may just use the existing house "hot water supply". So Euro machines can heat to desired temp, while American ones just have to take what they get! Why THAT was done that way, I don't know, difference in hot water heating technology choices? Euro houses don't usually have a central "hot water tank" like US has? Why THAT is would be yet another question...).

AnotherGoodName 4y ago

I don't check except for the occasional fancy shirt and even then it's only for iron temperature which is clear enough. Dyes, machines and laundry detergent all changed for the better. I haven't inadvertently made things pink in 20 years now. The red now holds. Even new jeans come prewashed. My machine seems to be much gentler too.

londons_explore 4y ago

Laundry symbols make no sense... So let's get rid of them! Let's simply make all clothes compatible with a regular wash and tumble dry process. If the clothes use a dye that isn't waterproof, use a different dye. If the fabric is too fragile to withstand spinning, use a stronger fabric. If a material can't withstand the heat of a dryer, use better material. Material science has come so far in the past 100 years that we can meet or exceed the performance of pretty much any of last centuries materials while also being able to make the stuff washable.

Cd00d 4y ago
Is this humor? Because the symbols need to be looked up we shouldn't use silk any more??
micromacrofoot 4y ago
I understand the desire to simplify things you don't understand, but this would never work. You'd have to destroy the entire fashion industry first.
The-Bus 4y ago
Just so you understand how this sounds to someone who works in (or cares about) apparel: Computers make no sense! So let's simplify them. Let's just have one kind of laptop, desktop, server, and phone. With the same operating system. Why are we still using so many different kinds of computers?
npteljes 4y ago
Let's simply centrally mandate one standard that everyone adheres to? In what universe is that simple?

Terry_Roll 4y ago

Now find a washing machine with programs that match the washing symbols, even if its only documented in their manuals. Its not a hard task building a washing machine or tumble dryer that matches the washing symbols, but it seems to be for the current industry leaders!

pydry 4y ago

All this article has really convinced me is that a sticker explaining what all the laundry symbols are would be a good use of the flat top of washing machines/dryers.

penneyd 4y ago
Now that's a great idea!

AdamH12113 4y ago

I have always found laundry symbols confusing. I agree with other comments that this proposed replacement has too many problems to be acceptable, but surely someone can do better than "crossed-out triangle", "underlined water cup", "Cylon wearing a jaunty cap", and my personal favorite, "literally just a circle". Weird fact: Despite having been around for decades, laundry symbols have not been assigned Unicode code points. This mailing list email from Ken Whistler in 2003[1] suggests the existence of a conflicting Canadian standard as a reason, along with a philosophy of not including "icons" (especially color-coded ones!) in a "character" set, given that pictographic language is likely to change over the next century. (Unicode threw that out the window in 2010 when they standardized emojis, and given how complex emojis have become Ken's argument is sounding better and better...) [1] http://unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2003-m06/0274.html http://unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2003-m06/0274.html

marcosdumay 4y ago
There's nothing wrong with the symbols. Your washing machine is the one that should have a printed table of them somewhere. Take a look on those symbols: "A", "B", "C". A triangle with the basis moved up, two circles with a straight side, and an open circumference arc. They were abstract into complete meaningless, yet they are great for their use-case.
- robonerd 4y ago
  > Your washing machine is the one that should have a printed table of them somewhere. Neither of my laundry machines have any symbols on their control panels, only printed English. The only symbols I can find on them are the Explosion, Fire, and Shock warning stickers inside the rim of the doors.
  - PebblesRox 4y ago
    I think OP meant "should" as in "ought to" not "should" as in "probably does."
- nmca 4y ago

amenghra 4y ago

The old ironing symbols were fine and better than the redesigned ones.

Ekaros 4y ago
Specially when I take my cheapish Iron in hand look at the control and see oh there is 1 dot, 2 dot and 3 dot setting...

IshKebab 4y ago

I think these are definitely better. Especially bleach and dry clean. The originals are too abstract. Unless you memorise them you basically have to look them up every time. Which is probably why most clothes also have English text telling you what to do on the label. The new ones obviously have too small details to print on a typical label but I think that could be fixed fairly easily.

RGamma 4y ago

Ehh after a couple washes these symbols come off completely anyway; bet you can't design around that!

adregan 4y ago

I think I’d argue that it’s beneficial in this case to lean towards abstract figures which must be looked up. What the designer calls intuitive, I might argue is actually easier to misinterpret. One must remember that these are international symbols and the cultural context you bring to interpretation is different from another’s.

Ekaros 4y ago
Also there is very clear design goal with originals for each being distinct from others. Which explains lot of design.

xwdv 4y ago

Does anyone not care about these symbols? There could be so many permutations of options in a pile of clothing that you’d end up having to do so many loads. I just throw everything in and hope for the best.

el-salvador 4y ago
Same for me. Most of the time I have just used the standard wash setting, then air dry if sunny or machine dry if raining. I’m not even sure how temperature influences washing. I’ll have to read about that.

happytoexplain 4y ago

Wow! The new icons have unacceptably small details, and I'm not sure how that's not obvious to even non-designers. And yet the author claims their set puts usability in front of beauty, as opposed to the originals? I don't usually write this negatively, but this really provoked an emotional reaction in me. Self-evidence is only one desirable quality of iconography, and it is not the most important one. Legibility is the most important one. If I can't read the details, or they easily wear off or fade, then it doesn't matter how self-describing they are. Sometimes you have to increase abstraction to increase legibility at the cost of increased learning. This is a common and accepted practice throughout the universe of symbology for excellent reasons. Edit: Another advantage of high legibility is speed. Even if I have a tag where the new symbols are legible, I won't be interpreting them as quickly as the original symbols, under the precondition that I am already familiar with each set of symbols. Edit: I think the reason this provoked me is that I have run into cases where this attitude toward design created bad real world experiences, so I immediately want to warn away from it as soon as I see it even in a hypothetical case.

Twirrim 4y ago
Something that seems a bizarre change is the iron one, almost makes me wonder if this is someone that ever irons clothes. Going from dots to a thermometer? 1) Irons have respective dots on them. I can look at the clothes, look at the iron, and turn the temperature dial to the matching setting. I'm not playing guessing games of "where on the dial is 1/3rd?", there's a literal dot that matches the symbol. 2) The temperature symbols now go from easy to distinguish to confusing, especially when smaller and lighting not so great. Is it a 1/3 of the way through? 2/3rs? Counting dots is way, way easier and quicker.
Aeolun 4y ago
> If I can't read the details, or they easily wear off or fade, then it doesn't matter how self-describing they are. You can reverse this too. If I never understand what they mean, it doesn’t matter that I can still read them. I mean, I agree there’s too many hard to read details, but the originals are absolutely impenetrable.
- 4y ago

bricemo 4y ago

To truly call this an improvement, he needs to re-run the evaluation test to see what percentage of respondents can correctly identify the new icons

bluSCALE4 4y ago

Designer must be midwesterner: push button, get bacon.

deleted 4y ago
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bluSCALE4 4y ago
https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.791778944.7289/bg,f8f8f8-flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.791778944.7289/bg,f8f8f8-fla...

peanut_worm 4y ago

The improved ones still seem really vague to me

nimbius 4y ago

Oh you think laundry is bad...let me introduce you to the bane of my apprenticeship... Welding symbols: https://weldingpros.net/welding-symbols/ https://weldingpros.net/welding-symbols/

vr46 4y ago

I think the big mistake here is to assume that the original symbols were the right way of representing the information needed at all. A clear number for temperature on its own, followed by a separate symbol for a machine or a hand would be clearer than piling one onto another.

memorable 4y ago

Alt link: https://scribe.rip/m/global-identity?redirectUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fuxdesign.cc%2Flaundry-symbols-make-no-sense-154a0c10dbe0 https://scribe.rip/m/global-identity?redirectUrl=https%3A%2F...

ARandomerDude 4y ago

Hot take (or cold, delicate take with color-safe bleach if you prefer): if you have to pay attention to the laundry symbols, skip it and buy something else. Find durable clothes that are acceptably fashionable and forget about the laundry headache.

causi 4y ago

The new ones are just as inscrutable as the old ones. How on earth am I supposed to know a washing machine with the middle button of three dark means "permanent press" and the right button of three means "delicate" without looking it up? The new "natural dry" looks like it means "safe for high heat". "Do not bleach" looks more like "do not use detergent". Frankly I think symbols that give you no impression at all are better than symbols that give you the wrong impression.

O__________O 4y ago

Labels are dated, please forget making the icons better. According to Statista, 80% of the world’s population owns a smartphone. Just add a link to the instructions and have translations in plain language that are standardized; that is manufactures/brands just reuse the standard types of instructions that are relevant.

robjan 4y ago
What happens when the garment manufacturer or the URL shortener they used to reduce the complexity of the QR code goes out of business? I've experienced this before.
malfist 4y ago
That's what we need, always online laundry instructions.

deleted 4y ago

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mhandley 4y ago

Even if they didn't try to pack in too much detail, I still think many of the redesigned symbols are less obvious than the originals. A square with a circle in it - is that the washer or the dryer? They're both boxes with round doors for most people these days. But the tub of water - at least I know intuitively that must mean washing. Similarly a conical flask for bleach - I guess I know that's something chemical, but is it bleach or dry cleaning? Whereas a triangle is always a warning, so it's not hard to associate with the only toxic thing in the laundry room. All irons I've ever used have dots on the temperature scale, not a half-filled old school thermometer, so that's also one that doesn't need improving. I'm not saying there's no room for improvement - the wavy lines for drying are certainly better than another ambiguous box with a circle in it - but many of the originals are pretty good.

jszymborski 4y ago

A lot of these are good, but changing the wash basin to a front-loading washer is a mistake IMHO. There are plenty of people around the world who don't machine wash their clothes, and a water basin feels like the ur-washer, the platonic ideal.

kergonath 4y ago

How are the proposed ones more legible, particularly at small scales? How is embedding a representation of what a washing machine looks like now makes them more universal or recognisable? Despite the couple of paragraphs pontificating about what good icons should be, most of them are much worse than the cleaner, simpler, older ones. The drying ones are more descriptive, but less legible.

superasn 4y ago

With exception to the bleach symbol I find most of the new and improved symbols hard to read and just as confusing and maybe even worse. Also as other commenters have said it will do a much worse job when the fabric is faded or somebody without a 20/20 vision. I think somebody else needs to take a shot at this again.

RedShift1 4y ago

The original symbols were _engineered_. These new symbols are _designed_. There's a difference, and this falls into the same shortcomings of many modern UI designers: they only design for what appeals to them personally.

pantulis 4y ago

A very interesting exercise, but I believe the old symbols are not that hard to getting acquanted with. My mom explained them to me... what, three decades ago? Of course I don't remember most of them, but I usually buy the same types of clothes so I basically always use the same program. Additionally, laundry & ironing professionals have those symbols more than memorized ;)

cameronh90 4y ago

So many laundry tags have OTT requirements. I have hoodies that claim dry clean only, but of course come out completely fine in the machine. Lots of bras say hand wash only but we've never had any issues with them in the machine either. Generally, we just ignore the labels and put all the clothes in a colour separated wash on the 30c daily eco cycle. If the clothes get damaged - which is rare in a modern non-agitator washing machine - we just don't buy that type of fabric/garment any more. It does reduce the clothing options a little bit, for example, no silk, but it's worth the improved quality of life. Laundry Darwinism. There are a few types of necessary item we do get dry cleaned, such as expensive suits and ball gowns, but at least for us those are rare use. The other thing that has improved our life a lot is only buying non-iron clothing.

mrcartmeneses 4y ago
Conversely my t-shirts that claim to be machine washable shrink and need prior knowledge to keep them wearable. The physical world is complex. Interestingly most detergent works great at 30c. Hotter wash temps are for a time before biological enzymes were used as detergent additives.
- mikestew 4y ago
  The detergent we buy works fine at whatever the water temperature is coming out of the cold side of the tap. I don't know that we even need to have the hot water line connected at our house as I don't recall the last time I used any temperature other than "tap cold" (I'm really curious what plain old "cold" does; is there a chiller in there I don't know about?) I mean, it's not like my chemical engineer classmates were sitting on their asses the last 30 years, modern detergent ain't the stuff your Mom used. And lest one think I'm a dainty flower that doesn't get clothes all that dirty, just last week I was running a trail race, and as I do, caught my foot on a root and went diving downhill straight into a big pile of Pacific Northwest mud. I wasn't sure the mud was going to wash out of my skin, let alone the knee socks and running outfit. One trip through the front loader on cold, and it's like it never happened.

dpratt 4y ago

I would refer the author of this piece to read about Chesterton’s Fence, and then think about it in context of the subject of his article. “There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, ‘I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.’ To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: ‘If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.’”

NullPrefix 4y ago

Original->Redesigned chart didn't have to be a gif

Solvitieg 4y ago
Seriously. A great post about bad UX uses bad UX during the climax

JoeAltmaier 4y ago

It's a lost cause, looking for 'intuitive' symbols. It depends on your culture, your experiences, heck your generation. Just look at the symbols for 'save' (a floppy disk) or 'make a call' (an old phone handset). Kids just have to memorize them, they mean nothing 'intuitively'. I liken these attempts at symbol sets, to ancient hieroglyphics - a different picture-writing for everything. Even the Egyptians gave up and turned to phonetic spelling. Just write the instructions on the tag. Or heck, put a 2D scan code there and my phone will tell me what to do.

roelschroeven 4y ago
> Just write the instructions on the tag. But then you need different labels for different markets, and even then often lots of different languages on the same label. That's the whole point of using symbols instead: they are universal. At least in theory. In the real world labels do contain instructions in multiple languages, and I do read those instead of trying to decipher the symbols.

aceazzameen 4y ago

The author has a point that a redesign could be more intuitive and understandable. Unfortunately the provided redesigns don't fit the bill. There's some decent ideas here though. The shape of the bleach bottle, the circular motion of the arrows indicating tumble, a thermometer, and a dry cleaning bag. Unfortunately, the execution isn't as good as it should be. The strokes are too thick, and detailing is too crowded. If anything, this is a decent first draft. But I would send it back with notes. The most important one being: less is more. And it's okay to leave existing icons alone that already work. Perhaps redesign within the constraints of the existing style, rather than creating a new style?

the_mitsuhiko 4y ago

While I agree that the original icons are quite confusing they are incredibly googleable and they are also printed in manuals everywhere and super easy to match. More importantly there are apps like Laundry Lens which can reliably detect them and explain them.

deleted 4y ago

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99_00 4y ago

What is the cost/impact of laundry symbols making no sense to people like the author and me? I don't seem to have problems doing laundry despite not understanding the care label.

probably_wrong 4y ago

I wonder whether using a thermometer is a good idea. Mercury thermometers are getting harder to find, which is not great for a symbol expected to last 50 years. Then again, maybe we have another "floppy disk" situation where the concept survives the artifact.

Melatonic 4y ago

In addition to all of these symbols I would like to see just a simple "type 1, type 2, type 3, type 4" OVERALL code added to each thing. If something is a type1 that could mean cold wash machine okay, tumble dry low, iron low/medium. A type 4 could be the fragile stuff - hand wash only cold water, mild detergent, no iron, no tumble dry. These wouldnt encompass everything but at least we could have a very quick guide to memorize.

kleer001 4y ago

Yes, that's how symbols work. Arabic numerals make no sense. Kanji makes no sense. The Roman alphabet makes no sense. Of course, they're symbols. You memorize them. They stand for the object they're pointing at. They're not abstractions meant to represent directly the thing its self. Everyone, stop being so literal. Sheesh.

gorkish 4y ago

I wish more designers would learn how to more objectively assess whether their work will have positive or negative value. It's kind of like how the lesson that tic tac toe taches kids has nothing to do with the strategy of the game. The usual exercise-in-futility assignment for design students is to redesign a toaster or a ladder, but clearly there are a lot of them who don't really get the point.

crispyambulance 4y ago

My whole adult life, I've ignored all laundry labels and just followed recommendations on the dial of the washer also, crucially, I've learned to assiduously avoid attempting to wash or dry any of my wife's clothes as that requires careful inspection of each item with dire consequences for each mistake. Curious about those middle temperature settings. It seems like a lot of levels: 70C, 60C, 50C, 40C. What fabric would be fine at 40C, but 50C would be "too hot"? I mean, I understand that some synthetics or wool would have a problem with extreme heat like 95C, and some might need to be at room temp for color to stay. But beyond that, isn't one "middle level" enough?

antux 4y ago

The new icons are bad. There are small distinguishing details that are hard to notice at small sizes. The icons need to be more simple, concrete, and recognizable.

ibejoeb 4y ago

It's a step up from cuneiform. If you really want people to understand, it should probably be just arabic numerals. They're almost universally understand, and then you can just look it up in your language or print out the chart and put it next to the machine.

zaptheimpaler 4y ago

Maybe we shall replace all these tags with a chip and a laundry basket that sorts all clothes into a few piles and feeds them into a washer with the right settings.

aristofun 4y ago

Is it me or the redesigned ones make equally same sense as original — none?

kukx 4y ago

What about, instead of changing the symbols we add text. Or just teach them at school :) Symbols are great for brevity and aesthetics, but they have to be learned to be useful. Oh I got an idea, what about a QR code with all the info included, you just have to scan it ;)

bandyaboot 4y ago

Every washer and dryer should have the symbols and their meanings right on them. Problem solved.

moralestapia 4y ago

OP has a point but the alternatives he provides are a bit worse from my perspective. Also, why not putting the old and new icons side by side? For an UX designer that is policing on others, the animated GIF that you can't control with a fast transition was a very poor choice.

mongol 4y ago
Yes that ruins his entire credibility.

jedberg 4y ago

I have a chart with all the symbols printed out next to the laundry machine. In most cases it's pretty obvious how a fabric should be washed just based on the feel of the material. In cases where it isn't, I've got the chart up in the one place I do laundry. Most launder mats I've been to have the same chart on the wall somewhere. I'm not sure why memorizing is so bad in this case.

butz 4y ago

I'm adding custom NFC tags to all my laundry with encoded washing instructions, color and material data. Placing laundry in "smart" basket will read all data from them (this part is currently more involved, as you need to scan each article of clothing separately), and send instructions to washing machine for most optimal program (that's a problem too, as I do not own "smart" washing machine, yet). If there are some outliers, e.g. black shirt in otherwise white-ish laundry - I will be informed to remove it, for best results.

robonerd 4y ago

The idea of using these symbols instead of printed English is that not everybody speaks English, yes? Well, I don't speak Spanish, but I think if all of these symbols were replaced with printed Spanish words, it would be more useful to me than any of these symbols. I'd figure out what it meant with greater ease than these symbols; at the very least I would be able to look up the meaning. And if you're going to have the symbols and printed text, you might as well omit the symbols entirely. I think both sets of symbols are worthless. I could probably guess what some of them mean if my life depended on it, but I'm not going to. Deciphering symbols is a waste of my time. At least if printed Spanish were used, puzzling out the meaning would actually enrich my life. The symbols are worthless noise and I don't want their meaning wasting space in my brain.

kingofpandora 4y ago

Now can you decide the buttons on my toaster, please?

robonerd 4y ago
A single dial labelled 1 through 9.
- kingofpandora 4y ago
  I wish that's all it had ...

trynewideas 4y ago

the optimism of consistently printing (or stitching!) symbols with this level of detail across fabric types, from printed tags to printed on-fabric to stitched tags, that will also remain readable after frequent wear and cleaning ignoring the existing multiplicity of existing standards (ISO vs. ASTM vs. GINETEX vs. Japan vs. OTEXA/CGSB/Canada) to propose another one, especially when many of the changes he makes were at one point implemented in a non-English-speaking nation for decades[1] and then abandoned for the international standard that he doesn't like redesigning all future clothing to use a new standard that can be confused or conflict with existing standards that will remain in use for decades because no older non-compliant clothing will be immediately destroyed, much less all missing more actionable user-focused solutions that don't require a new standard, such as adding standardized, well-designed, localized symbol keys on points of interaction, like laundry supplies and equipment all leading to a point not of action but to "bring more awareness to the cost" of something the author and his immediate audience personally does not understand, but which is not necessarily broadly misunderstood and for that matter is only believed by the author to be broadly misunderstood because of an out-of-context, entertaining blog post[2] where, for mildly career-connected fun and LinkedIn social engagement, the researcher texted her mom and some personal friends and came to a half-joking conclusion appropriate to the post's mostly unserious tone ("I am predictably going to advocate more user research on the matter") that's neither mentioned nor applied by the author [1] https://www.sbs-zipper.com/blog/japan-implements-new-clothing-care-symbols-with-iso-standards-from-december-1-2016/ https://www.sbs-zipper.com/blog/japan-implements-new-clothin... [2] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/speed-user-research-question-2-do-people-understand-laundry-browne/?trk=read_related_article-card_title https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/speed-user-research-question-...

SkeuomorphicBee 4y ago

The redesign is to much of the author's local iconography, it is less "global" than the original. The worst offender being the representation of a front loading washing machine, while most of the developing world uses top loading washing machines. In my country all those "washing machine" icons would be incorrectly read as tumble dryer icons because here washers are top loaded and dryers are front loaded.

masswerk 4y ago

Just as a reminder: Nothing is context-free. Even, if something may appear self-explanatory to you, there's always convention involved to some degree. E.g., does this symbol mean do not pack the cleaned cloth in a nylon envelope, or does it mean no dry cleaning? Is this an artificial heat source, or "natural dry"? Or is it the smelly process (bleaching)? Is this a closed chemical or recycling process, or tumbling? Also, the dot system is probably easier to identify and discern and more resistant to wear than the depiction of thermometers (which probably only work relative to each other, having something to compare with). Moreover, icons like these are not app icons on the home screen: they do not work best, if they (or their constituting elements) are all of even weight. Eye-sight, lighting conditions and ease of identification are primary aspects of this. Something like this should probably work by a primary context identifier, conveyed by the shape, and a secondary qualifier ("specificator") inside that shape with convenient separating whitespace around it.

leokennis 4y ago

1. Add a QR code to the labels pointing to a “washingstructions://“ scheme 2. Add said scheme to iOS and Android 3. Scan the QR code 4. iOS or Android show the washing instructions in text/icons/images, of course localized

Night_Thastus 4y ago

The GIF changes images very quickly with no way to pause. Hard to see them side by side.

browningstreet 4y ago

I’m traveling right now and had to pin this web page to decipher the symbols on the washing machines in my airbnbs: https://washerhouse.com/en/perevod-terminov/ https://washerhouse.com/en/perevod-terminov/

timeon 4y ago

Does alphabet make sense?

ajhurliman 4y ago

I don’t understand the old symbols, and I don’t understand these redesigned symbols either. Maybe they could just write it out?

pronik 4y ago

The key assumption with this redesign is basically the same as with the old one: we are supposed to immediately understand what this icon is supposed to mean. However, what will our assumptions about things be in about 50 years, which is how long the previous icons existed? Will we even recognize a washing machine with its porthole as such or will it be the case of a 3.5" floppy as a "Save" icon, which has confused people for the last 15 years? And besides that: do we really need new icons? Make an app which will recognize and interpret the icons and you are done without making several gigantic industries replace well-known and well-working pieces of their daily work.

deleted 4y ago

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stjohnswarts 4y ago

I never knew one needed so many laundry symbols. Are clothes that complex in France O_O ? Honestly I never knew there was such a thing...

zekrioca 4y ago

It asks for an account to read the whole article.. (Read the rest of this story with a free account.)

SZJX 4y ago

Not sure why this post is perceived with so much negativity here. I totally agree with the original author that the labels are a disaster. Whether the redesign is very much practical on low resolution is debatable, but I find the general idea commendable. So many comments even straight out dismissing the necessity of the labels altogether, which 1. is not the point at all and 2. would definitely not be the sentiment from those who are actually in charge of the laundry and care about taking care their clothes well over the years. Maybe HN doesn’t necessarily have the intended audience for this kind of post then.