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Realism is not and has never been VR's problem. VR being a pain in the ass is VR's problem. The hardware is annoying to break out and get comfortable if you wea

Realism is not and has never been VR's problem. VR being a pain in the ass is VR's problem. The hardware is annoying to break out and get comfortable if you wear glasses. The software is an absolute nightmare. Backwards compatibility is pathetic compared to a PC and you're never quite sure if a game you heard about is going to be available for whatever platform you invested in. There's also no faith in durable VR products. The people who bought a headset and phone to use Samsung VR got fucked. The people who bought a headset and a Google Daydream-certified phone got fucked. The people who bought an Oculus Go got fucked. Maybe when I can get a headset that offers onboard focus-adjustment and some kind of omnidirectional treadmill I'll sink another thousand dollars into VR but until then I am done.

cshenton 4y ago
Even as an enthusiast (5 headsets and counting) I have to agree. There have been several month periods where I didn’t use VR due to driver instability. That being said, body tracking is what made the platform click for me. Hanging out with friends from all over the world in an immersive space feels like the future.
- cokeandpepsi 4y ago
  It's really popular with kids and at least one of my uncles, I couldn't be so fast to dismiss it the quest2 clicks with a lot of people
sien 4y ago
Steam has somewhat sorted the backwards compatibility. Hooking up a Quest 2 to Steam works well and it means that you have a platform that will support numerous headsets. Where that leaves Meta though is an interesting question.
Kiro 4y ago
I still use my Quest 1 every day. Honestly no idea what you're even referring to here.
- causality0 4y ago
  My bad, I meant the Oculus Go.
  - Stevvo 4y ago
    Go you can still use just fine too. I watch movies on mine from time to time. They unlocked the bootloader last year so you can do whatever you want with for years to come.
    - jazzyjackson 4y ago
      this is like henry ford's "whatever color you want" its unlocked, but all the new proprietary VR apps are not going to be backwards compatible with it. (not to drag it too much, I hope to be working on the open source side of the metaverse, but I think OP has a point about forward compatibility, there's very little reason to throw down good money for another headset with a limited lifespan, we're still in that early adoption / fast trash phase)
      - Miraste 4y ago
        Nothing would be compatible with it anyway. It’s too slow and it only has a single controller with only 3 degrees of freedom. It’s not a VR problem or even a proprietary problem, just rapid improvement. The Go existing at all was probably a mistake. It was a good test bed but it was always headed for immediate deprecation, it could’ve just stayed in the lab.
        Stevvo 4y ago
        To this day the Go is actually one of my favorite headsets, and I have owned many. The small controller and form factor are great for travel and I can comfortably watch a movie with it on the plane, which can't be said for most headsets. That said, whilst it is a great device for watching movies, that is really all it was ever good for.
- darzu 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
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khendron 4y ago
Unless getting in and out of VR becomes as easy as putting one and taking off a pair of sunglasses, it's never going to become mainstream. Some serious disruption is going to be required to get there. Compare it to the PDAs (e.g., Palm Pilot) of the late 90s early 2000s. They were cool, but hard to use. Though they were popular, they were far from mainstream. Then the iPhone came out, and a few years later everybody had a computer in their pocket. VR sorely needs a similar disruption.
- georgeecollins 4y ago
  I used to have a Newton, I tried developing for it in college. It was terrible but I learned so much from it. It was one of those things where everybody had to tell you how dumb you were to have it or use it. I had a similar experience with smart watches and believe it or not the first generation Samsung Note. I remember someone telling me I was ridiculous to have such a "big phone". I don't know which thing will work out and which won't, but people telling you why they won't or will never use it is not that meaningful to me. I have seen too many things in my life that people say they will never use become quite common. I have always had my best successes on new technologies so I am always rooting for people trying to create new hardware. FWIW I love my Quest 2 and use it every day. Your mileage will vary.
  - causality0 4y ago
    Frankly I'd pay out the nose for a flagship phone with a 16:10 screen like the original Note.
    - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
      https://www.amazon.com/TCL-Unlocked-Smartphone-Triple-Camera-Charging/dp/B09295GRFS https://www.amazon.com/TCL-Unlocked-Smartphone-Triple-Camera... looks decent
      - causality0 4y ago
        That's a 20:9 display and an SoC that was hot garbage when it was new two years ago.
allenu 4y ago
Yeah, the hassle of having to put it on and store it somewhere is gonna be hard to get over. The thing with a tv and video games is you just plop yourself on the couch and go. You don’t have to grab the tv from the closet and put it on. The other issue is even if people are open to the VR device itself, I think you absolutely have to nail the experience for them the first time or else people will treat it like a fad and then never give it a go again. You don’t have a second chance to make a good impression.
seanmcdirmid 4y ago
I used my Quest 1 a lot, and had to buy another one when it stopped working (during COVID, sigh) because it was so much a part of my daily lifestyle. The Quest 2 is even better, and I got custom prescription lenses just for my VR system that solves the problem of comfort with glasses. But I only use my VR system for fitness, and only a few fitness oriented or active apps. It is the killer but only VR app for me. I don't think the Go was a very good product. Facebook was right to double/triple down on the Quest, but that does leave early adopters a bit in a mess with outdated hardware (although I'm on my third quest system already).
- josephg 4y ago
  What VR games / apps do you use to keep in shape?
  - guiambros 4y ago
    For me it's Supernatural [1]. It's a bit expensive ($15/month, paid annually), but it's worth every cent. It has the same polish of Peloton (with instructors, curated musical set, decent mobile app companion, etc), with the advantage that it gets your brain laser focused on what you're doing (as opposed to any other form of exercise, where I put my headphones on and tune out on a podcast, YT video or something). It's similar to the feeling I get when I'm coding and in the flow: time stops, and I can't think of anything else. And this is coming from someone who always hated exercise, so it has been a pretty fantastic experience so far (~1 year). But YMMV. ps: if interested, I have 4 free guest passes (it gives you 30 days free trial, instead of the normal 7). Email in my profile. pps: strongly recommend Quest2 with extended battery (or counterweight [2]), so the weight is more evenly distributed in your head. I had some neck pain at first, until I replaced by the elite strap with extra battery. [1] https://www.getsupernatural.com/ https://www.getsupernatural.com/ [2] https://vrbalance.net/ https://vrbalance.net/
    - white_dragon88 4y ago
      I’m extremely sceptical of fitness For VR, at least with the current hardware available. - sweaty and nasty as hell on the headset - no substitute for a proper gym or run or swim, there only so much stuff you can do on the ground or punching the air, jogging on the spot - conditions you to only be active in VR, which coddles you in an environment that does not mirror real world applications of your body Im happy to be debunked but those are my impressions. I’m very fit, frequently go to my nearby boxing gym, i just couldn’t see myself doing this
bigiain 4y ago
I kinda feel like VR is still in the "Should I get an Amiga? Or an Atari? Or a TRS80? Or a ZX81? Or an Apple II?" stage. One day it'll end up consolidated into some equivalent of Windows/Mac/Linux, probably categorised into the same sort of "business/professionals", "artists/creatives", and "geeks/tinkerers" approximate major demographics. If you need some hints about which platform(s) will "win", keep an eye on what I buy. And avoid them. I have a GearVR/S6Edge - on a shelf with my Apple Newton, Sinclair ZX80, and Betamax video recorder. I think perhaps my only technology win is the turntable I bought in 1985 and still use...
- lotophage 4y ago
  You needed an Amiga to play Dactyl Nightmare back in the day,IIRC.
  - thefourthchime 4y ago
    That and “Altered State”
    - bigiain 4y ago
      And lets face it, none of the other platforms ever had a Guru Meditation Error
      - oblio 4y ago
        It caught on later: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Meditation#Legacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Meditation#Legacy
- ckz 4y ago
  Tangent: You might appreciate the premise of "harbinger customers"[1]. The theory is that there actually are consumers who are a bit out of sync with the collective and do indeed consistently value/buy products that lose out. I suspect I'm a fellow harbinger. I thought Apple was cool in the 90s and that Microsoft was on to something in the 00s-early 10s (including Win8/Phone), so I'm at least a solid 5+ years off (or, as a positive spin, simply much too early). [1] https://boingboing.net/2019/12/03/harbringer-of-doom.html https://boingboing.net/2019/12/03/harbringer-of-doom.html)
interpol_p 4y ago
VR also... isn't that immersive I'm a huge VR nerd, I love collecting headsets and playing with new ways to display visuals. But I've never thought it would be a mainstream product, because of exactly what you said: you have to strap something to your head It really isn't that immersive. Once you are into the game or story it doesn't matter whether you are reading a book, watching a TV or viewing it through VR. You get immersed regardless My main interest in VR is playing with the idea of replacing my monitors for coding, graphic design and 3D modelling. 3D modelling in VR is already very good and better than a screen due to the hand-tracking and being able to easily manipulate directly in 3D space (not the immersive display, so much)
- mejutoco 4y ago
  Which 3d modeling apps do you use? I am interested in this space.
StillBored 4y ago
f$*ked oculus rift user here: Their drivers caused what has probably been the only windows bluescreens I've seen in a decade. Then because they can't provide individual downloadable versions (or for that matter even recover them from their build artifacts, per support) anytime something breaks following an update your SOL until they fix it, if ever. (this is part of a larger dark pattern of creating "installers" that actually are only downloaders that download whatever version is current and install it without saving the downloaded image). I'm in the situation where about a year and a half ago they pushed an update which broke my setup, and they can't seem to fix it, nor are they apparently motivated. The solution is basically buy a new computer/reinstall the OS/whatever and see if that fixes it. I'm not the only one, reddit is full of people having various problems like this, and some have even gone so far as to create restore point style scripts for saving/restoring the install. Their USB drivers have been trash, or they have some requirement that isn't clear, which means that its a game of plugging in the headset and sensors into random USB ports until it decides everything is going to work (maybe). I could go on, but their software people obviously aren't up to the task of providing kernel mode code, or debugging problems in the field. Funny bit, one of their recruiters poped me an email shortly after I gave up on their software/support teams actually being capable of fixing things. Right into the trash it went, I can't imagine working for a dev shop that can't even recover older versions of their build artifacts to do a/b testing.
- causality0 4y ago
  Same. In a few decades I'm going to look up the obituaries of the Oculus Home software dev team and savor reading about them dying. It says the headset is connected despite showing an amber light, it refuses to play audio from the headset instead of the pc speakers, it refuses to set up the play area without having a PC monitor facing the play area, it makes you reset the play area every time so much as a housefly fart touches a camera.
  - StillBored 4y ago
    I was so mad for a while, I considered taking them to small claims court to recover the price of the games, since they broke it, and have basically refused to fix it. Right now its just in the category of "never give meta/etc money for anything because they will f$*k you and never blink" I don't do bus with google, and I won't do bus with facebook, they are just to big to notice when they squash people like me.
overtonwhy 4y ago
The Valve Index is pretty amazing. You can adjust for Pupillary Distance as well as inward and out for comfort with glasses of all sizes. I doubt if Steam or Valve are going anywhere anytime soon. I recommend it. 144hz screens.
travbrack 4y ago
I'm pretty salty about my Oculus Go experience. I only found a tiny handful of good games on the platform, then it died.
- towaway15463 4y ago
  Sorry to hear that but give the Quest 2 a shot. It’s not going anywhere and is a big target for developers.
seydor 4y ago
I use it very often to view google streetview. Static images don't cause nausea. I think i ve already gotten enough return for my investment and they keep shipping new updates all the time (last one was quite buggy).
deleted 4y ago
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bluescrn 4y ago
> The people who bought a headset and phone to use Samsung VR got fucked. The people who bought a headset and a Google Daydream-certified phone got fucked. The people who bought an Oculus Go got fucked. These things were all essentially experiments, or at best a little taster of VR for those not ready to invest in serious (PC-based) VR. Decent VR needs a truckload of GPU power, and these early attempts to use phone hardware for VR were never going to be much good.
a_c 4y ago
I don't quite get why people are so hyped about VR. A novel experience, sure. Something to be "in" everyday, I'm not sure. And what about R [0], which we already have, and way better than VR, anyone? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enMwwQy_noI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enMwwQy_noI
- zigman1 4y ago
  It has an amazing potential in gaming. For example, racing, which in R is too expensive for the majority, while the computer simulations are so close to reality, that the VR ads to the experience. It is also used by architects when designing buildings and different spaces, so it can also be used in professional environment. On the other hand, I think that all the meta thing is just corporate hype blown out of proportions. I can imagine tho that for some people their R isn't that great, or they will never have a chance to experience certain places in the world in first person. My 90 years old great-grandmother can experience Iceland only through TV documentaries, google street view or maybe VR.
- cal85 4y ago
  Where are all these people who are so hyped about VR they want to spend every day "in" it? Maybe some of these people exist, but I don't think they exist in anywhere near the numbers they seem to exist in people's imaginations.
pmoriarty 4y ago
It's comfort and convenience that VR lacks most. Until VR headsets are as light and unobtrusive as ordinary glasses, VR will remain niche.
- towaway15463 4y ago
  I don’t think they have to go that far. How often do you lug a laptop around with you or work with one on your lap or what about the money and floor space you put into having a workstation set up in your home? As much as Apple keeps trying, it’ll be a long time before laptops are as light and easy to use as a piece of paper and a pencil but that isn’t stopping anyone from using them. VR just needs to be more ergonomic, that’s it.
rsynnott 4y ago
I mean, I think there's a secondary problem. Even if it _wasn't_ a pain in the ass, does anyone want it? I mean, clearly some people do, but a significant number? I've used a VR headset a few times, and it was a deeply unpleasant experience, but even if you address the main sources of unpleasantness (bulky, extremely fiddly to set up, dreadful software) it was still, well... a pretty pointless experience, in my view. Even if the tech improves I wouldn't be keen to revisit. Honestly, I kind of suspect it's this decade's 3D TV; enormous hype, quickly followed by the whole industry pretending they were never involved in it.
- oblio 4y ago
  VR will be a dud for a long time. We need a lot of tech advancements and then we need an actual business model (i.e. killer app). AR is the real deal for the immediate future. AR has direct applications in a lot of environments. To put it shortly, AR is something that will be truly useful within the next 5-10 years, VR is something will be truly useful within the next 20-25 years.
  - rsynnott 4y ago
    AR definitely (already) has specialized industrial applications. I think it's _somewhat_ less clear that there's a mass-market consumer product there, though.
    - oblio 4y ago
      How so? It's incredibly clear :-) Once we get the tech to actually put it into glasses properly, it will be ubiquitous. Google Glass failed because the tech wasn't there yet, smart glasses need to look like regular glasses. Once they do, then of course everyone will want it. For anyone willing to wear glasses, smart glasses are basically the smartphone killer (or enhancer). VR is the odd one out for mass-market consumer products. Flight simulators and the like don't cut it as "mass-market".
      - parasubvert 4y ago
onion2k 4y ago
VR being a pain in the ass is VR's problem. Making it indistinguishable from real life should be easy then.
AltruisticGapHN 4y ago
Not entirely fair. The Quest is a joy to use. But I will admit that even though each time I take off the dust from my Quest I am wowed at the experience, ... each time I take off the headset I shrug and I'm like "cool". Maybe we just need to come to grips with the fact that _as an entertainment or work_ device, it's friggin awesome - and as far as "reality" goes, it's pointless. Now of course if it came to a point where you don't want to remove the headset.. but thankfully personally I don't have any worries. A funny philosophical thought.. you reproduce the sense of smell, taste .. etc... Then people will be like, "umm, it's just like my real life now.. what is the point?" Other than being "transported" (for fake) and experience another place. I think that's the main misconception with VR. There is the dream of "living another life". But it's just entertainment. edit: I should also add that despite promising stories in the media, the ability of VR to heal trauma, to heal our nervous system, to make us better people... is still very much up in the air.. and as I am healing trauma myself I can see how VR could just as well unbalance the nervous system. I mean you're already seeing how "novelty" messes us up in social media (inifinite scroll etc)... why should we expect VR to make everything betteR?
- steeve 4y ago
  Exactly, the Quest is by far the best experience on that front. That's coming from someone who started with an Oculus DK1.
fsiefken 4y ago
I can use my Oculus Go apps (like my beloved 'Race for the Galaxy') on the Oculus Quest (and perhaps there's a way to run it on the Quest2). I can still use my Google Daydream VR set, but there is no real use case for it (except, like with samsung gearVR underwater VR with a watertight phone). Most if not all apps of these early mobile VR systems have been ported to the Oculus Go, which has superior hardware compared to GearVR (and weighs less then the Quest). There are probably useful apps or good games on Go that haven't been backported to Samsung GearVR, but seriously - the Go is much more comfortable to wear then the bulky GearVR. 250 euro is a lot, but I gladly paid it for a bit more comfort. Why still use Daydream or GearVR? SteamVR apps can still be run on Windows11 and streamed to Oculus Quest. What do you mean with
JauntTrooper 4y ago
I figured VR would bring back arcades. New equipment may be too expensive and novel for home purchases, but an arcade could invest in those fancy omnidirectional treadmill and VR gloves. The demand is there. People pay $30+ for a spin class, why not VR lightsaber zumba? Video games in the 80s and movies started off in commercial locations before becoming cheap enough for home use. I'm not sure why VR hasn't followed their model. I've assumed it was because the tech isn't there yet.
- lm28469 4y ago
  > People pay $30+ for a spin class, why not VR lightsaber zumba? Believe it or not but a lot of people go to group sport to be surrounded by people, not to be alone in a virtual world.
- causality0 4y ago
  Putting your hands on a greasy controller is one thing, strapping a sweaty headset to your face is quite another.
yalogin 4y ago
Can you tell me how the people who bought oculus go get tucked? I thought it’s supported actively, no?

cshenton 4y ago

Even as an enthusiast (5 headsets and counting) I have to agree. There have been several month periods where I didn’t use VR due to driver instability. That being said, body tracking is what made the platform click for me. Hanging out with friends from all over the world in an immersive space feels like the future.

cokeandpepsi 4y ago
It's really popular with kids and at least one of my uncles, I couldn't be so fast to dismiss it the quest2 clicks with a lot of people

sien 4y ago

Steam has somewhat sorted the backwards compatibility. Hooking up a Quest 2 to Steam works well and it means that you have a platform that will support numerous headsets. Where that leaves Meta though is an interesting question.

Kiro 4y ago

I still use my Quest 1 every day. Honestly no idea what you're even referring to here.

causality0 4y ago
My bad, I meant the Oculus Go.
- Stevvo 4y ago
  Go you can still use just fine too. I watch movies on mine from time to time. They unlocked the bootloader last year so you can do whatever you want with for years to come.
  - jazzyjackson 4y ago
    this is like henry ford's "whatever color you want" its unlocked, but all the new proprietary VR apps are not going to be backwards compatible with it. (not to drag it too much, I hope to be working on the open source side of the metaverse, but I think OP has a point about forward compatibility, there's very little reason to throw down good money for another headset with a limited lifespan, we're still in that early adoption / fast trash phase)
    - Miraste 4y ago
      Nothing would be compatible with it anyway. It’s too slow and it only has a single controller with only 3 degrees of freedom. It’s not a VR problem or even a proprietary problem, just rapid improvement. The Go existing at all was probably a mistake. It was a good test bed but it was always headed for immediate deprecation, it could’ve just stayed in the lab.
      - Stevvo 4y ago
        To this day the Go is actually one of my favorite headsets, and I have owned many. The small controller and form factor are great for travel and I can comfortably watch a movie with it on the plane, which can't be said for most headsets. That said, whilst it is a great device for watching movies, that is really all it was ever good for.
darzu 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

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khendron 4y ago

Unless getting in and out of VR becomes as easy as putting one and taking off a pair of sunglasses, it's never going to become mainstream. Some serious disruption is going to be required to get there. Compare it to the PDAs (e.g., Palm Pilot) of the late 90s early 2000s. They were cool, but hard to use. Though they were popular, they were far from mainstream. Then the iPhone came out, and a few years later everybody had a computer in their pocket. VR sorely needs a similar disruption.

georgeecollins 4y ago
I used to have a Newton, I tried developing for it in college. It was terrible but I learned so much from it. It was one of those things where everybody had to tell you how dumb you were to have it or use it. I had a similar experience with smart watches and believe it or not the first generation Samsung Note. I remember someone telling me I was ridiculous to have such a "big phone". I don't know which thing will work out and which won't, but people telling you why they won't or will never use it is not that meaningful to me. I have seen too many things in my life that people say they will never use become quite common. I have always had my best successes on new technologies so I am always rooting for people trying to create new hardware. FWIW I love my Quest 2 and use it every day. Your mileage will vary.
- causality0 4y ago
  Frankly I'd pay out the nose for a flagship phone with a 16:10 screen like the original Note.
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    https://www.amazon.com/TCL-Unlocked-Smartphone-Triple-Camera-Charging/dp/B09295GRFS https://www.amazon.com/TCL-Unlocked-Smartphone-Triple-Camera... looks decent
    - causality0 4y ago
      That's a 20:9 display and an SoC that was hot garbage when it was new two years ago.

allenu 4y ago

Yeah, the hassle of having to put it on and store it somewhere is gonna be hard to get over. The thing with a tv and video games is you just plop yourself on the couch and go. You don’t have to grab the tv from the closet and put it on. The other issue is even if people are open to the VR device itself, I think you absolutely have to nail the experience for them the first time or else people will treat it like a fad and then never give it a go again. You don’t have a second chance to make a good impression.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

I used my Quest 1 a lot, and had to buy another one when it stopped working (during COVID, sigh) because it was so much a part of my daily lifestyle. The Quest 2 is even better, and I got custom prescription lenses just for my VR system that solves the problem of comfort with glasses. But I only use my VR system for fitness, and only a few fitness oriented or active apps. It is the killer but only VR app for me. I don't think the Go was a very good product. Facebook was right to double/triple down on the Quest, but that does leave early adopters a bit in a mess with outdated hardware (although I'm on my third quest system already).

josephg 4y ago
What VR games / apps do you use to keep in shape?
- guiambros 4y ago
  For me it's Supernatural [1]. It's a bit expensive ($15/month, paid annually), but it's worth every cent. It has the same polish of Peloton (with instructors, curated musical set, decent mobile app companion, etc), with the advantage that it gets your brain laser focused on what you're doing (as opposed to any other form of exercise, where I put my headphones on and tune out on a podcast, YT video or something). It's similar to the feeling I get when I'm coding and in the flow: time stops, and I can't think of anything else. And this is coming from someone who always hated exercise, so it has been a pretty fantastic experience so far (~1 year). But YMMV. ps: if interested, I have 4 free guest passes (it gives you 30 days free trial, instead of the normal 7). Email in my profile. pps: strongly recommend Quest2 with extended battery (or counterweight [2]), so the weight is more evenly distributed in your head. I had some neck pain at first, until I replaced by the elite strap with extra battery. [1] https://www.getsupernatural.com/ https://www.getsupernatural.com/ [2] https://vrbalance.net/ https://vrbalance.net/
  - white_dragon88 4y ago
    I’m extremely sceptical of fitness For VR, at least with the current hardware available. - sweaty and nasty as hell on the headset - no substitute for a proper gym or run or swim, there only so much stuff you can do on the ground or punching the air, jogging on the spot - conditions you to only be active in VR, which coddles you in an environment that does not mirror real world applications of your body Im happy to be debunked but those are my impressions. I’m very fit, frequently go to my nearby boxing gym, i just couldn’t see myself doing this

bigiain 4y ago

I kinda feel like VR is still in the "Should I get an Amiga? Or an Atari? Or a TRS80? Or a ZX81? Or an Apple II?" stage. One day it'll end up consolidated into some equivalent of Windows/Mac/Linux, probably categorised into the same sort of "business/professionals", "artists/creatives", and "geeks/tinkerers" approximate major demographics. If you need some hints about which platform(s) will "win", keep an eye on what I buy. And avoid them. I have a GearVR/S6Edge - on a shelf with my Apple Newton, Sinclair ZX80, and Betamax video recorder. I think perhaps my only technology win is the turntable I bought in 1985 and still use...

lotophage 4y ago
You needed an Amiga to play Dactyl Nightmare back in the day,IIRC.
- thefourthchime 4y ago
  That and “Altered State”
  - bigiain 4y ago
    And lets face it, none of the other platforms ever had a Guru Meditation Error
    - oblio 4y ago
      It caught on later: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Meditation#Legacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Meditation#Legacy
ckz 4y ago
Tangent: You might appreciate the premise of "harbinger customers"[1]. The theory is that there actually are consumers who are a bit out of sync with the collective and do indeed consistently value/buy products that lose out. I suspect I'm a fellow harbinger. I thought Apple was cool in the 90s and that Microsoft was on to something in the 00s-early 10s (including Win8/Phone), so I'm at least a solid 5+ years off (or, as a positive spin, simply much too early). [1] https://boingboing.net/2019/12/03/harbringer-of-doom.html https://boingboing.net/2019/12/03/harbringer-of-doom.html)

interpol_p 4y ago

VR also... isn't that immersive I'm a huge VR nerd, I love collecting headsets and playing with new ways to display visuals. But I've never thought it would be a mainstream product, because of exactly what you said: you have to strap something to your head It really isn't that immersive. Once you are into the game or story it doesn't matter whether you are reading a book, watching a TV or viewing it through VR. You get immersed regardless My main interest in VR is playing with the idea of replacing my monitors for coding, graphic design and 3D modelling. 3D modelling in VR is already very good and better than a screen due to the hand-tracking and being able to easily manipulate directly in 3D space (not the immersive display, so much)

mejutoco 4y ago
Which 3d modeling apps do you use? I am interested in this space.

StillBored 4y ago

f$*ked oculus rift user here: Their drivers caused what has probably been the only windows bluescreens I've seen in a decade. Then because they can't provide individual downloadable versions (or for that matter even recover them from their build artifacts, per support) anytime something breaks following an update your SOL until they fix it, if ever. (this is part of a larger dark pattern of creating "installers" that actually are only downloaders that download whatever version is current and install it without saving the downloaded image). I'm in the situation where about a year and a half ago they pushed an update which broke my setup, and they can't seem to fix it, nor are they apparently motivated. The solution is basically buy a new computer/reinstall the OS/whatever and see if that fixes it. I'm not the only one, reddit is full of people having various problems like this, and some have even gone so far as to create restore point style scripts for saving/restoring the install. Their USB drivers have been trash, or they have some requirement that isn't clear, which means that its a game of plugging in the headset and sensors into random USB ports until it decides everything is going to work (maybe). I could go on, but their software people obviously aren't up to the task of providing kernel mode code, or debugging problems in the field. Funny bit, one of their recruiters poped me an email shortly after I gave up on their software/support teams actually being capable of fixing things. Right into the trash it went, I can't imagine working for a dev shop that can't even recover older versions of their build artifacts to do a/b testing.

causality0 4y ago
Same. In a few decades I'm going to look up the obituaries of the Oculus Home software dev team and savor reading about them dying. It says the headset is connected despite showing an amber light, it refuses to play audio from the headset instead of the pc speakers, it refuses to set up the play area without having a PC monitor facing the play area, it makes you reset the play area every time so much as a housefly fart touches a camera.
- StillBored 4y ago
  I was so mad for a while, I considered taking them to small claims court to recover the price of the games, since they broke it, and have basically refused to fix it. Right now its just in the category of "never give meta/etc money for anything because they will f$*k you and never blink" I don't do bus with google, and I won't do bus with facebook, they are just to big to notice when they squash people like me.

overtonwhy 4y ago

The Valve Index is pretty amazing. You can adjust for Pupillary Distance as well as inward and out for comfort with glasses of all sizes. I doubt if Steam or Valve are going anywhere anytime soon. I recommend it. 144hz screens.

travbrack 4y ago

I'm pretty salty about my Oculus Go experience. I only found a tiny handful of good games on the platform, then it died.

towaway15463 4y ago
Sorry to hear that but give the Quest 2 a shot. It’s not going anywhere and is a big target for developers.

seydor 4y ago

I use it very often to view google streetview. Static images don't cause nausea. I think i ve already gotten enough return for my investment and they keep shipping new updates all the time (last one was quite buggy).

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bluescrn 4y ago

> The people who bought a headset and phone to use Samsung VR got fucked. The people who bought a headset and a Google Daydream-certified phone got fucked. The people who bought an Oculus Go got fucked. These things were all essentially experiments, or at best a little taster of VR for those not ready to invest in serious (PC-based) VR. Decent VR needs a truckload of GPU power, and these early attempts to use phone hardware for VR were never going to be much good.

a_c 4y ago

I don't quite get why people are so hyped about VR. A novel experience, sure. Something to be "in" everyday, I'm not sure. And what about R [0], which we already have, and way better than VR, anyone? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enMwwQy_noI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enMwwQy_noI

zigman1 4y ago
It has an amazing potential in gaming. For example, racing, which in R is too expensive for the majority, while the computer simulations are so close to reality, that the VR ads to the experience. It is also used by architects when designing buildings and different spaces, so it can also be used in professional environment. On the other hand, I think that all the meta thing is just corporate hype blown out of proportions. I can imagine tho that for some people their R isn't that great, or they will never have a chance to experience certain places in the world in first person. My 90 years old great-grandmother can experience Iceland only through TV documentaries, google street view or maybe VR.
cal85 4y ago
Where are all these people who are so hyped about VR they want to spend every day "in" it? Maybe some of these people exist, but I don't think they exist in anywhere near the numbers they seem to exist in people's imaginations.

pmoriarty 4y ago

It's comfort and convenience that VR lacks most. Until VR headsets are as light and unobtrusive as ordinary glasses, VR will remain niche.

towaway15463 4y ago
I don’t think they have to go that far. How often do you lug a laptop around with you or work with one on your lap or what about the money and floor space you put into having a workstation set up in your home? As much as Apple keeps trying, it’ll be a long time before laptops are as light and easy to use as a piece of paper and a pencil but that isn’t stopping anyone from using them. VR just needs to be more ergonomic, that’s it.

rsynnott 4y ago

I mean, I think there's a secondary problem. Even if it _wasn't_ a pain in the ass, does anyone want it? I mean, clearly some people do, but a significant number? I've used a VR headset a few times, and it was a deeply unpleasant experience, but even if you address the main sources of unpleasantness (bulky, extremely fiddly to set up, dreadful software) it was still, well... a pretty pointless experience, in my view. Even if the tech improves I wouldn't be keen to revisit. Honestly, I kind of suspect it's this decade's 3D TV; enormous hype, quickly followed by the whole industry pretending they were never involved in it.

oblio 4y ago
VR will be a dud for a long time. We need a lot of tech advancements and then we need an actual business model (i.e. killer app). AR is the real deal for the immediate future. AR has direct applications in a lot of environments. To put it shortly, AR is something that will be truly useful within the next 5-10 years, VR is something will be truly useful within the next 20-25 years.
- rsynnott 4y ago
  AR definitely (already) has specialized industrial applications. I think it's _somewhat_ less clear that there's a mass-market consumer product there, though.
  - oblio 4y ago
    How so? It's incredibly clear :-) Once we get the tech to actually put it into glasses properly, it will be ubiquitous. Google Glass failed because the tech wasn't there yet, smart glasses need to look like regular glasses. Once they do, then of course everyone will want it. For anyone willing to wear glasses, smart glasses are basically the smartphone killer (or enhancer). VR is the odd one out for mass-market consumer products. Flight simulators and the like don't cut it as "mass-market".
    - parasubvert 4y ago

onion2k 4y ago

VR being a pain in the ass is VR's problem. Making it indistinguishable from real life should be easy then.

AltruisticGapHN 4y ago

Not entirely fair. The Quest is a joy to use. But I will admit that even though each time I take off the dust from my Quest I am wowed at the experience, ... each time I take off the headset I shrug and I'm like "cool". Maybe we just need to come to grips with the fact that _as an entertainment or work_ device, it's friggin awesome - and as far as "reality" goes, it's pointless. Now of course if it came to a point where you don't want to remove the headset.. but thankfully personally I don't have any worries. A funny philosophical thought.. you reproduce the sense of smell, taste .. etc... Then people will be like, "umm, it's just like my real life now.. what is the point?" Other than being "transported" (for fake) and experience another place. I think that's the main misconception with VR. There is the dream of "living another life". But it's just entertainment. edit: I should also add that despite promising stories in the media, the ability of VR to heal trauma, to heal our nervous system, to make us better people... is still very much up in the air.. and as I am healing trauma myself I can see how VR could just as well unbalance the nervous system. I mean you're already seeing how "novelty" messes us up in social media (inifinite scroll etc)... why should we expect VR to make everything betteR?

steeve 4y ago
Exactly, the Quest is by far the best experience on that front. That's coming from someone who started with an Oculus DK1.

fsiefken 4y ago

I can use my Oculus Go apps (like my beloved 'Race for the Galaxy') on the Oculus Quest (and perhaps there's a way to run it on the Quest2). I can still use my Google Daydream VR set, but there is no real use case for it (except, like with samsung gearVR underwater VR with a watertight phone). Most if not all apps of these early mobile VR systems have been ported to the Oculus Go, which has superior hardware compared to GearVR (and weighs less then the Quest). There are probably useful apps or good games on Go that haven't been backported to Samsung GearVR, but seriously - the Go is much more comfortable to wear then the bulky GearVR. 250 euro is a lot, but I gladly paid it for a bit more comfort. Why still use Daydream or GearVR? SteamVR apps can still be run on Windows11 and streamed to Oculus Quest. What do you mean with

JauntTrooper 4y ago

I figured VR would bring back arcades. New equipment may be too expensive and novel for home purchases, but an arcade could invest in those fancy omnidirectional treadmill and VR gloves. The demand is there. People pay $30+ for a spin class, why not VR lightsaber zumba? Video games in the 80s and movies started off in commercial locations before becoming cheap enough for home use. I'm not sure why VR hasn't followed their model. I've assumed it was because the tech isn't there yet.

lm28469 4y ago
> People pay $30+ for a spin class, why not VR lightsaber zumba? Believe it or not but a lot of people go to group sport to be surrounded by people, not to be alone in a virtual world.
causality0 4y ago
Putting your hands on a greasy controller is one thing, strapping a sweaty headset to your face is quite another.

yalogin 4y ago

Can you tell me how the people who bought oculus go get tucked? I thought it’s supported actively, no?