16 ms·

Endocrine-disrupting chemical exposure in womb impact fear, anxiety behavior

109 points by vitabenes 4y ago

jvanderbot 4y ago
Punchline: "Female [rat] offspring administered BPA and a combination of BPA and low-dose DEHP displayed less anxiety in the Open Field Test, which measures activity and exploratory behavior. However, male offspring administered high-dose DEHP showed feminized anxiety-like behavior in a maze."
- tremon 4y ago
  I wouldn't call that a punchline, that's just one of the stated observations. This would be closer to the punchline: “Our study confirms sex-specific behavioral changes in offspring as a result of these exposures, highlighting the fact that exposure to these chemicals should be avoided during pregnancy” But the article is short enough to read in its entirety. I find all the observations alarming, not just that one, given how prevalent BPA use has been in the past decades.
  - jvanderbot 4y ago
    I'd add your alternative punchline, but between the two of us, we'd have reproduced the "article"
- ParksNet 4y ago
  I wonder if many of the gender dysphoria issues and related politics we're seeing now have an underlying factor of hormone disruption due to widespread pollution. We should be pursuing the banning of bisphenols, phthalates, and PFAS for any products that touch food or water (or eventually leach into groundwater) as a strategic priority.
  - rib3ye 4y ago
    If you're making the connection that gender dysphoria could be "prevented" through environmental and FDA protections maybe you should be working in politics.
    - bhouston 4y ago
      It is hard to know for sure if it isn't studied. Environmental pollution can disrupt sexual development in animals. There are a number of chemicals that frogs are sensitive too that mess with their sexual development. Here is the first google hit I can find: https://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2002/04/15_frogs.html https://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2002/04/15_frog...
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - bhouston 4y ago
    > I wonder if many of the gender dysphoria issues and related politics we're seeing now have an underlying factor of hormone disruption due to widespread pollution. It is worth more research into this. Hard to make predictions but having environmental causes underlying some of these trends, at least to a degree, is possible. I think the lower fertility rate among first world nations is also partially tied into endocrine disruptors as well.
sva_ 4y ago
It should be noted that this study is on rats. But I think it's reasonable to use such a model to suspect a similar effect on humans. I've been following the impact that endocrine disruptors have on humans for a while now, and I'm quite frankly flabbergasted that there is so little research being done on it. It seems issues related to hormonal imbalances among people are an increasing phenomenon, and it appears reasonable to me to suspect that these chemicals may have an impact on humans, especially in the development stage. Perhaps people are afraid to do such research, as some of the implications could be threatening to their careers, considering the fact that some people seem to make hormonal imbalances part of their identity? I'm honestly a bit hesitant to even post this comment as it may quickly get flagged by people who oppose having an open discussion about these things, but oh well.
- space_fountain 4y ago
  I was so with you until the last paragraph. I don't think that's either relevant or constructive. I'd posit that you make your particular hormone balance a part of your identity so I'm confused why you're surprised others do. By all means we should be trying to make sure as many people as possible can live happy lives, but saying something like being gay is a hormone imbalance isn't that. I think there's a way you could phrase your point, if the conclusion ended up being true, but without evidence it comes across as just more of a phobia
  - Jarwain 4y ago
    I feel pretty out of the loop here; is there a strain of beliefs that sexuality is based on some hormone imbalance?
    - Dma54rhs 4y ago
      Think the keyword here is transgender people.
    - space_fountain 4y ago
      Sorry perhaps I should have been less cagey. They didn't specify but I suspect they meant trans people or maybe asexual people when they say some people make a hormone imbalance part of their identity, but really I think you see this sort of rhetoric about most marginalized identity groups. I've definitely heard the same about gay people in the past. The point is this sort of rhetoric divorced from evidence seems likely to be motivated by bias. Obviously it doesn't have to be, and the goal should always be trying to make sure people live happy lives, but even if this were true, chemicals are turning the people gay, trans, ect, that shouldn't actually invalidate their identities or for that matter mean we shouldn't ban the chemicals. Side note: the historic record is clear that all these groups have existed before plastics so the most you might imagine is that the odds have gone up
giantg2 4y ago
Interesting. By just reading the headline I was expecting increases in anxiety in general. With these chemicals being so pervasive today as well as the increasing commoness of anxiety issues today, I now wonder if the anxiety issues could be even worse without them.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
wyager 4y ago
I expect that in 100 years, they are going to look back on this period of widespread endocrine disruptor exposure from plastics, hormonal birth control, etc. with the same or greater horror and incredulity than we look back on the Romans poisoning themselves with lead. At least the Romans had the credible excuse of ignorance.
- _yb2s 4y ago
  I think I saw this on here recently but not findingly the link right now... it was an article arguing pretty convincingly that the Romans did know about lead poisoning, and it was most likely very rare rather than widespread.
- maccaw 4y ago
  100%
- sacrosancty 4y ago
  People always choose the popular outrage topics as what they expect future generations will agree with them on. But wouldn't it more likely be something we're completely blindsided by? Perhaps something even opposite to our cultural values?
  - kleer001 4y ago
    there's enough science denialism in the social sciences we're spoiled for choices, enough uncomfortable truths they'd fill many books
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  It's possible we may look back with some regrets, but I seriously doubt that plastics will be thought to cause anything close to the same or greater harm caused by lead. We'd know it by now if that were true.
  - wyager 4y ago
    > We'd know it by now if that were true. My brother, we have a tanking fertility rate, rapidly declining testosterone levels and sperm counts, and widespread sexual development issues causing intense social conflict. It is already much worse than lead.
EL_Loco 4y ago
What's also alarming is that a bunch of plastic is now clearly labeled 'BPA Free', and people think "problem solved", while quite a few studies show that these BPA free plastics have other, just as toxic, endocrine disruptors. Some time ago I got curious about Nalgene's new BPA free plastic called Tritan. Some of the stuff I read wasn't too reassuring: https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/03/tritan-certichem-eastman-bpa-free-plastic-safe/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/03/tritan-certi...
- colechristensen 4y ago
  At this point I’m just doing everything to avoid plastic. Not completely but when i buy clothes they’re usually natural fibers, when i eat and drink it’s usually out of glass, ceramic, or steel.
- littledude 4y ago
  i remember reading in order to make any plastic soft enough to stretch and mold (otherwise it's too brittle) additives like BPA are required. BPA is just one of many different options. BPA free doesn't mean endocrine disrupting free.
- hinkley 4y ago
  Some of us switched to glass containers. Others switched to other plastics, or to plastics thinking they had switched to metal. Some metal containers are epoxy lined. Kleen Kanteen got into trouble because they were confidently wrong, launching a press release saying they had no BPA in their products, only to have to backpedal a week later. If memory serves, as part of their mea culpa they let people request replacements for their old products.
bergenty 4y ago
I don’t know why people drink from plastic. Just because we know about BPA doesn’t mean there are hundreds of other things in plastic not on our radar. Just use glass, fired clay (with no additives, just wood ash) or metal containers where container strength is required (copper ideally).
- germinalphrase 4y ago
  Why copper rather than stainless steel (the more common, less costly option)?
  - e40 4y ago
    Perhaps because copper has antibacterial qualities? I use stainless steel, myself. Never plastic.
  - bergenty 4y ago
    Stainless steel is just as good.
  - potatochup 4y ago
    It could be that some people are sensitive to nickel (which is the 10 in typical 18/10 stainless steel)
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    Copper gets into acidic food, and is actually poisonous in large quantities
  - michaelsshaw 4y ago
    Copper is actually a reactive metal, will leach into acidic liquids, and is generally not permitted for restaurant use for this reason.
- sneak 4y ago
  For me personally? My favorite flavor of bottled water costs 3x in glass as it does in plastic. While traveling, plastic-contained beverages are almost all that is available. 100% of the drinking water on a commercial flight is in plastic. 100% of the drinking water in airport vending machines, etc.
vjust 4y ago
The earth's soil, oceans are living things - anything we can do to avoid dumping plastic ( a non-living thing) with benefit us... to put it mildly.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bamboozled 4y ago
It hurts to think how bad plastic is, harmful on so many levels. Yes it’s convenient but it seems pretty darn harmful in so so many ways.
doodlebugging 4y ago
I remember a long time ago reading an article in Omni magazine about this very subject - plastic and how studies have shown that it is an endocrine disruptor with unpredictable consequences for people who will consume it by using plastic utensils, drinking cups, dishware, etc and especially by heating plastics in a microwave. They mentioned that many amphibians, considered canary species were being affected by the by-products accumulating in the environment and some were in danger of extinction as a result of them producing more female offspring than male due to the hormonal disruptions. That would've been back in the early 90's, before 1994, so this is not a new thing at all. I'm pretty sure they mentioned in the article that research had been done for decades prior to the article but that plastics manufacturers were pooh-poohing all the links. It could also have been Nature, National Geographic, Sierra Club magazine, Cousteau Society magazine, etc since I was a frequent reader of paper materials at the time.
- aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
  This is where the notorious Alex Jones quote comes from: "They're making the friggin' frogs gay!"
  - yarg 4y ago
    Yeah, and it's even worse than that - full feminisation of male frogs. https://www.nature.com/articles/news021028-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/news021028-7 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0909519107 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0909519107 It's not often that Alex Jones is any where near the right side of things, but he was treated somewhat unfairly in this instance.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      I’m guessing we don’t have much research but I’m wondering if these chemicals are largely responsible for gender dysphora.
      - doodlebugging 4y ago
throwaway5752 4y ago
Obesity is reducing sperm counts, which is still well in the normal range. Look up adipose cells and estrogen production. Anxiety and fear are more related to internet usage, which is created intentionally to get engagement numbers. Look up the relationship between cortisol and hormones/sperm counts. People are fat, sedentary, and driven to the point of neuroticism by stories like this.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- trdlts 4y ago
  The fertility rate reduction is a global phenomenon and is occurring cross-species.
rib3ye 4y ago
Please tell me more about this "feminized anxiety-like behavior".
RyanShook 4y ago
I’m tired of studies on rats immediately being linked with human health. BPA may be harmful but until we get human studies I think these animal studies cause more confusion than answers. *nervously sips disposable water bottle*
DoreenMichele 4y ago
Personal opinion: Plastics are a genuine health hazard for humans, but not all plastics are created equal. If you are concerned, try to avoid soft plastics that readily off gas as a means to mitigate the issue.

109 points by vitabenes 4y ago

Punchline: "Female [rat] offspring administered BPA and a combination of BPA and low-dose DEHP displayed less anxiety in the Open Field Test, which measures activity and exploratory behavior. However, male offspring administered high-dose DEHP showed feminized anxiety-like behavior in a maze."

tremon 4y ago
I wouldn't call that a punchline, that's just one of the stated observations. This would be closer to the punchline: “Our study confirms sex-specific behavioral changes in offspring as a result of these exposures, highlighting the fact that exposure to these chemicals should be avoided during pregnancy” But the article is short enough to read in its entirety. I find all the observations alarming, not just that one, given how prevalent BPA use has been in the past decades.
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  I'd add your alternative punchline, but between the two of us, we'd have reproduced the "article"
ParksNet 4y ago
I wonder if many of the gender dysphoria issues and related politics we're seeing now have an underlying factor of hormone disruption due to widespread pollution. We should be pursuing the banning of bisphenols, phthalates, and PFAS for any products that touch food or water (or eventually leach into groundwater) as a strategic priority.
- rib3ye 4y ago
  If you're making the connection that gender dysphoria could be "prevented" through environmental and FDA protections maybe you should be working in politics.
  - bhouston 4y ago
    It is hard to know for sure if it isn't studied. Environmental pollution can disrupt sexual development in animals. There are a number of chemicals that frogs are sensitive too that mess with their sexual development. Here is the first google hit I can find: https://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2002/04/15_frogs.html https://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2002/04/15_frog...
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- bhouston 4y ago
  > I wonder if many of the gender dysphoria issues and related politics we're seeing now have an underlying factor of hormone disruption due to widespread pollution. It is worth more research into this. Hard to make predictions but having environmental causes underlying some of these trends, at least to a degree, is possible. I think the lower fertility rate among first world nations is also partially tied into endocrine disruptors as well.

sva_ 4y ago

It should be noted that this study is on rats. But I think it's reasonable to use such a model to suspect a similar effect on humans. I've been following the impact that endocrine disruptors have on humans for a while now, and I'm quite frankly flabbergasted that there is so little research being done on it. It seems issues related to hormonal imbalances among people are an increasing phenomenon, and it appears reasonable to me to suspect that these chemicals may have an impact on humans, especially in the development stage. Perhaps people are afraid to do such research, as some of the implications could be threatening to their careers, considering the fact that some people seem to make hormonal imbalances part of their identity? I'm honestly a bit hesitant to even post this comment as it may quickly get flagged by people who oppose having an open discussion about these things, but oh well.

space_fountain 4y ago
I was so with you until the last paragraph. I don't think that's either relevant or constructive. I'd posit that you make your particular hormone balance a part of your identity so I'm confused why you're surprised others do. By all means we should be trying to make sure as many people as possible can live happy lives, but saying something like being gay is a hormone imbalance isn't that. I think there's a way you could phrase your point, if the conclusion ended up being true, but without evidence it comes across as just more of a phobia
- Jarwain 4y ago
  I feel pretty out of the loop here; is there a strain of beliefs that sexuality is based on some hormone imbalance?
  - Dma54rhs 4y ago
    Think the keyword here is transgender people.
  - space_fountain 4y ago
    Sorry perhaps I should have been less cagey. They didn't specify but I suspect they meant trans people or maybe asexual people when they say some people make a hormone imbalance part of their identity, but really I think you see this sort of rhetoric about most marginalized identity groups. I've definitely heard the same about gay people in the past. The point is this sort of rhetoric divorced from evidence seems likely to be motivated by bias. Obviously it doesn't have to be, and the goal should always be trying to make sure people live happy lives, but even if this were true, chemicals are turning the people gay, trans, ect, that shouldn't actually invalidate their identities or for that matter mean we shouldn't ban the chemicals. Side note: the historic record is clear that all these groups have existed before plastics so the most you might imagine is that the odds have gone up

giantg2 4y ago

Interesting. By just reading the headline I was expecting increases in anxiety in general. With these chemicals being so pervasive today as well as the increasing commoness of anxiety issues today, I now wonder if the anxiety issues could be even worse without them.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

wyager 4y ago

I expect that in 100 years, they are going to look back on this period of widespread endocrine disruptor exposure from plastics, hormonal birth control, etc. with the same or greater horror and incredulity than we look back on the Romans poisoning themselves with lead. At least the Romans had the credible excuse of ignorance.

_yb2s 4y ago
I think I saw this on here recently but not findingly the link right now... it was an article arguing pretty convincingly that the Romans did know about lead poisoning, and it was most likely very rare rather than widespread.
maccaw 4y ago
100%
sacrosancty 4y ago
People always choose the popular outrage topics as what they expect future generations will agree with them on. But wouldn't it more likely be something we're completely blindsided by? Perhaps something even opposite to our cultural values?
- kleer001 4y ago
  there's enough science denialism in the social sciences we're spoiled for choices, enough uncomfortable truths they'd fill many books
SoftTalker 4y ago
It's possible we may look back with some regrets, but I seriously doubt that plastics will be thought to cause anything close to the same or greater harm caused by lead. We'd know it by now if that were true.
- wyager 4y ago
  > We'd know it by now if that were true. My brother, we have a tanking fertility rate, rapidly declining testosterone levels and sperm counts, and widespread sexual development issues causing intense social conflict. It is already much worse than lead.

EL_Loco 4y ago

What's also alarming is that a bunch of plastic is now clearly labeled 'BPA Free', and people think "problem solved", while quite a few studies show that these BPA free plastics have other, just as toxic, endocrine disruptors. Some time ago I got curious about Nalgene's new BPA free plastic called Tritan. Some of the stuff I read wasn't too reassuring: https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/03/tritan-certichem-eastman-bpa-free-plastic-safe/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/03/tritan-certi...

colechristensen 4y ago
At this point I’m just doing everything to avoid plastic. Not completely but when i buy clothes they’re usually natural fibers, when i eat and drink it’s usually out of glass, ceramic, or steel.
littledude 4y ago
i remember reading in order to make any plastic soft enough to stretch and mold (otherwise it's too brittle) additives like BPA are required. BPA is just one of many different options. BPA free doesn't mean endocrine disrupting free.
hinkley 4y ago
Some of us switched to glass containers. Others switched to other plastics, or to plastics thinking they had switched to metal. Some metal containers are epoxy lined. Kleen Kanteen got into trouble because they were confidently wrong, launching a press release saying they had no BPA in their products, only to have to backpedal a week later. If memory serves, as part of their mea culpa they let people request replacements for their old products.

bergenty 4y ago

I don’t know why people drink from plastic. Just because we know about BPA doesn’t mean there are hundreds of other things in plastic not on our radar. Just use glass, fired clay (with no additives, just wood ash) or metal containers where container strength is required (copper ideally).

germinalphrase 4y ago
Why copper rather than stainless steel (the more common, less costly option)?
- e40 4y ago
  Perhaps because copper has antibacterial qualities? I use stainless steel, myself. Never plastic.
- bergenty 4y ago
  Stainless steel is just as good.
- potatochup 4y ago
  It could be that some people are sensitive to nickel (which is the 10 in typical 18/10 stainless steel)
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  Copper gets into acidic food, and is actually poisonous in large quantities
- michaelsshaw 4y ago
  Copper is actually a reactive metal, will leach into acidic liquids, and is generally not permitted for restaurant use for this reason.
sneak 4y ago
For me personally? My favorite flavor of bottled water costs 3x in glass as it does in plastic. While traveling, plastic-contained beverages are almost all that is available. 100% of the drinking water on a commercial flight is in plastic. 100% of the drinking water in airport vending machines, etc.

vjust 4y ago

The earth's soil, oceans are living things - anything we can do to avoid dumping plastic ( a non-living thing) with benefit us... to put it mildly.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

bamboozled 4y ago

It hurts to think how bad plastic is, harmful on so many levels. Yes it’s convenient but it seems pretty darn harmful in so so many ways.

doodlebugging 4y ago

I remember a long time ago reading an article in Omni magazine about this very subject - plastic and how studies have shown that it is an endocrine disruptor with unpredictable consequences for people who will consume it by using plastic utensils, drinking cups, dishware, etc and especially by heating plastics in a microwave. They mentioned that many amphibians, considered canary species were being affected by the by-products accumulating in the environment and some were in danger of extinction as a result of them producing more female offspring than male due to the hormonal disruptions. That would've been back in the early 90's, before 1994, so this is not a new thing at all. I'm pretty sure they mentioned in the article that research had been done for decades prior to the article but that plastics manufacturers were pooh-poohing all the links. It could also have been Nature, National Geographic, Sierra Club magazine, Cousteau Society magazine, etc since I was a frequent reader of paper materials at the time.

aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
This is where the notorious Alex Jones quote comes from: "They're making the friggin' frogs gay!"
- yarg 4y ago
  Yeah, and it's even worse than that - full feminisation of male frogs. https://www.nature.com/articles/news021028-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/news021028-7 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0909519107 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0909519107 It's not often that Alex Jones is any where near the right side of things, but he was treated somewhat unfairly in this instance.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    I’m guessing we don’t have much research but I’m wondering if these chemicals are largely responsible for gender dysphora.
    - doodlebugging 4y ago

throwaway5752 4y ago

Obesity is reducing sperm counts, which is still well in the normal range. Look up adipose cells and estrogen production. Anxiety and fear are more related to internet usage, which is created intentionally to get engagement numbers. Look up the relationship between cortisol and hormones/sperm counts. People are fat, sedentary, and driven to the point of neuroticism by stories like this.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
trdlts 4y ago
The fertility rate reduction is a global phenomenon and is occurring cross-species.

rib3ye 4y ago

Please tell me more about this "feminized anxiety-like behavior".

RyanShook 4y ago

I’m tired of studies on rats immediately being linked with human health. BPA may be harmful but until we get human studies I think these animal studies cause more confusion than answers. *nervously sips disposable water bottle*

DoreenMichele 4y ago

Personal opinion: Plastics are a genuine health hazard for humans, but not all plastics are created equal. If you are concerned, try to avoid soft plastics that readily off gas as a means to mitigate the issue.