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Ask HN: Is there a TV on the market without “Smart TV” features?

390 points by nborwankar 4y ago

Or is there at least one where Smart mode can be turned off verifiably AND it doesn’t keep enticing you to turn it on by withholding ease of use or some convenience feature until you just give up?

comprev 4y ago
I use a KAGIS U43IP7UHD for my XBox1X (games + Netflix) and recently had the "television license inspector" drop by. The unit does not have any TV receiving hardware from the factory and therefore excludes me from paying a license here in Ireland. The guy was both surprised and impressed I'd researched the topic!
giantg2 4y ago
This has been brought up several times on here. Maybe you can use the search to find those similar questions. One of the suggestions I remember seeing is to buy a large display/monitor instead of a TV. I don't remember the specifics.
- andrewf 4y ago
  Here's one from this week, but I don't think this is the most price sensitive option - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31674957 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31674957
- mtmail 4y ago
  "Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29382643 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29382643
- jancsika 4y ago
  > Maybe you can use the search to find those similar questions. But the answers are probably out of date by now. E.g., my answer about buying a cheapo Spectre from Walmart-- that one has been out of stock for at least two of the several times this topic has been brought up now.
  - aviditas 4y ago
    Walmart stocks them during November for shopping season. The sceptre tvs are my go to for large viewing needs. If you are into perfect picture quality, it takes some settings tweaking to get to tolerable but in my opinion is ideal for just normal TV watching and video games.
    - jancsika 4y ago
      Ah, I see. Is it always the same old hardware and software? Because if they suddenly start shipping with AdJank 0.2 you're back to square one.
      - aviditas 4y ago
        It's as dumb as can be. There is no hardware for networking; caveat on this is I haven't cracked it open but my network is monitored and I have not seen a peep from it in 4 years. It can read media files from a USB or external drive which is nice. If you have a lot of devices to connect, you'd be best suited to get a nice hmdi switch, but I only have three so a nice universal remote and some cable management works just fine. -edited for spelling
LeoPanthera 4y ago
Rtings maintains a list of ad-free TVs. This isn't the same as smart-free, but maybe that's what some people want: https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/ads-in-smart-tv https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/ads-in-smart-tv (The ones with a "10" in the ad-free column.) The often-given advice of "just don't connect it to the internet" is viable only sometimes. My TV shipped with some missing features that were enabled after a software update. Perhaps plug it in, update the software, and then unplug it again.
- wmf 4y ago
  They're using a fairly narrow definition of ads though. Vizio is full of recommendations for a mediocre streaming service owned by Vizio.
  - atomicfiredoll 4y ago
    Vizio has also apparently decided to ramp up it's ad growth [0] and Jump Ad [1] platform as well. It makes me real glad that I didn't drop the money on a P Series Quantum due to technical issues people experienced. I've stopped considering them completely since. It's important to remember these reviews can become outdated with firmware, too. Even old TVs can suddenly start "benefiting viewers, content providers and advertisers" with "features" like ads playing as screensavers, and phoning the content of your screen back to Big Brother. Here's a related Reddit thread from the Jump Ad announcement [2]. [0] - https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/vizio-tv-buyers-are-becoming-the-product-vizio-sells-not-just-its-customers/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/vizio-tv-buyers-are-... [1] - https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1648829114 https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=... [2] - https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/tv303i/vizio_tvs_are_now_showing_banner_ads_over_live_tv/ https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/tv303i/vizio_tvs_a...
- qbasic_forever 4y ago
  Another option if you have good control over your router is to put the TV and other smart devices on a special subnet or vlan and only occasionally give it internet access for updates, etc. Maybe there's a good DNS-based ad blocker you could run on its vlan and nuke all of its ad and spy traffic too. This actually seems like a good market opportunity for yet another home device, a router with aggressive spyware and ad mitigation that's made to explicitly connect all your smart gadgets and untrusted devices that phone home.
jitl 4y ago
I’ve kept my Samsung offline since I purchased it in 2019. I’ve kept my LG offline since I purchased it in 2016. As long as you have an AppleTV or similar connected to service your need for “smarts” it won’t be hard to leave the TV offline. (I recommend LG over Samsung - Samsung TV has native undismissable ads from 2019 still)
- Shank 4y ago
  > As long as you have an AppleTV or similar connected to service your need for “smarts” it won’t be hard to leave the TV offline. Do these TVs start up and boot directly into the selected input for something like an Apple TV, or do you have to go to extra hoops when it starts up to switch to your desired input? I'd actually be perfectly happy with a smart TV that's disconnected if it never throws its UI in my face when I'm trying to just use an input for something.
  - solardev 4y ago
    My "smart" Vizio TV and LG projectors just go directly to the last active input (in my case a Google TV). I never even remember they have their own built-in smart OSes because I never see them. However, these days, most of the streaming sticks have their own shitty recommendations and ads anyway, so unless you're doing a self-hosted Plex box or something, expect ads. And then of course there are the actual streaming service ads.
    - radley 4y ago
      The Apple TV menu only shows preview cards for apps in the top row. Most apps show what you're currently watching, but other apps (Prime Video, ATV+, Twitch) will show promos instead. Best to move these apps to the right end of the top row, or down into the 2nd or 3rd row.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - Fezzik 4y ago
    On TCL panels (recommended in a separate comment) you can toggle/select what input the TV boots to and then you’re never bothered again.
worldmerge 4y ago
Jeff Geerling just did a video on a commercial tv that even has a pi in it. Maybe look into digital signage stuff or even a large computer monitor or projector.
- hbcondo714 4y ago
  Yup, Jeff's write-up and video on NEC's Pi-powered 55“ Display model were posted here on HN just a couple days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31674957 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31674957 My comment was you can buy it via Walmart: https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEC-MultiSync-m551-55-Diagonal-Class-M-Series-LED-backlit-LCD-display-digital-signage-4K-UHD-2160p-3840-x-2160-HDR-edge-lit/133117283 https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEC-MultiSync-m551-55-Diagonal-Cl...
- richardfey 4y ago
  This one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-epPf7D8oMk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-epPf7D8oMk Note: Sharp paid him for this
  - geerlingguy 4y ago
    Technically, they didn't pay... but they did send the display, speakers, stand, and Pi kit for review (I'm going to be integrating it into a new studio build—if I can get that to happen!). A silly distinction in some ways, but a distinction nonetheless. I explain how I accept different types of sponsorship / review samples in my youtube repo: https://github.com/geerlingguy/youtube#paid-videos--product-showcase-videos https://github.com/geerlingguy/youtube#paid-videos--product-...
    - richardfey 4y ago
      Sure, I only mentioned it because YouTube says that with a semitrasparent popup when video starts.
      - geerlingguy 4y ago
        Yeah; I do that because I like to make sure I'm 100% transparent about the fact that I didn't go to the store and buy the device that's in the video. A lot of content creators don't include any disclaimers if they were provided anything besides cash for a review :(
bitwize 4y ago
Sceptre sells dumb TVs. Often these are available for order through Wal-Mart's web site.
- natural219 4y ago
  Second this. I bought a 65" Sceptre TV a year or two ago for this exact reason, it works great, picture quality is awesome, and it was less than $600-700 IIRC. I plug in a chromecast for netflix etc but it's nice to know I can unplug it any time and just use HDMI if I want to.
donclark 4y ago
Or is there a process to turn a "smart tv" into a dumb tv? (per brand/make/model)
- sathomasga 4y ago
  Don't give it WiFi credentials. (I've got a 5-year-old Samsung that's never connected to any network and it works fine.)
  - Matthias247 4y ago
    And don’t plug in an ethernet cable
  - Grazester 4y ago
    One would think this would have been more obvious.
    - anonymousab 4y ago
      > One would think this would have been more obvious. Devices can refuse to function without a network connection, and the profits to be made from simply including a cellular connection of some sort for ad refresh + tracking are too high to be ignored forever. So this isn't a reliable, long-term solution.
      - astrostl 4y ago
        I have to think that far less than 1% of STV owners don't connect them. Adding hardware to capture whatever % of them it actually is seems extremely financially dubious to me, especially given how unlikely they are to have positive ad conversions.
      - Grazester 4y ago
        These are all hypothetical situations.
  - johannes1234321 4y ago
secretsatan 4y ago
I have a sony bravia one. It is currently unplugged from the network and solely connected through my playstation. Admittedly i just passed the buck to sony through another device, but i’m quite happy using the ps5 (and previously ps4) as a media centre, it has netflix and all the others, plus plex, and that connects to my pi plex server + NAS drive, through which you can put on any content you like
moistly 4y ago
We need a circuits geek to create a website documenting “how to disable your tv’s wifi antenna.” Name it TVLobotomy.
- adamredwoods 4y ago
  Curious. I wonder if it's possible to get Tizen root-level access through another app: https://developer.samsung.com/smarttv/develop/getting-started/using-sdk/tv-device.html#connecting-the-tv-and-sdk https://developer.samsung.com/smarttv/develop/getting-starte... Here's how to do it through cable: http://wiki.samygo.tv/index.php?title=Ex-Link_Cable_for_J/K/M/Q/N/QN_Series http://wiki.samygo.tv/index.php?title=Ex-Link_Cable_for_J/K/...
Fezzik 4y ago
Buy a TCL panel and never connect it to the internet. They are technically marketed as Smart TVs but there is no requirement that you connect them, and there are zero prompts or limits if you don’t. I’ve been using them for years and love them, primarily for the stupidly simple remotes and UI.
- walrus01 4y ago
  there's often a reason TCLs are very cheap, however, the 55" 4K for sale at costco for $280 right now is fine if you only ever use it in a dark room, but even when cranked up to 100% brightness is near unusable in a sunny room when a samsung at 70% brightness is just fine.
  - gruez 4y ago
    I was in the market for a TV a few years ago and after doing some research I concluded that quite a few of the best/bang models were from TCL. Of course, they weren't the bottom of the barrel models, and you have to do your homework ahead of time.
  - Fezzik 4y ago
    I’ve got a 55” 4k set and I definitely don’t have that problem - I live in the Oregon high desert, where we get a ton of sun, and with my set located about 8’ from a 9’ x 16’ picture window I have never had trouble seeing even dark movies, a la Blade Runner, midday.
  - djcapelis 4y ago
    If you haven’t yet, try turning on (or up) the micro contrast feature in the picture/display settings. Won’t solve everything, but can make a lot of dark scenes in a bright room a lot clearer to watch.
walrus01 4y ago
Just don't ever give it the wifi password. Drive the TV from a PS4/PS4, xbox series X or home theatre PC. Use the youtube/netflix/amazon video/whatever client software on those platforms. I have a thousand times more confidence that microsoft or sony will keep their operating system patched and free from zero days than some random OS on a TV. And at least they're big enough that their telemetry and data collection practices are documented. Yes, it's true you can't get much use out of an xbox series x without an internet connection, but at least you know what you're getting yourself into in advance.
- mattnewton 4y ago
  You may need to explicitly opt out somehow or connect the tv to a dummy network that blocks all traffic. I am having trouble finding the source on google again but I remember reading about some tv manufacturers automatically scanning for and connecting to open internet connections to update and upload telemetry data even when no Wi-Fi network was provided.
  - gruez 4y ago
    >I am having trouble finding the source on google again but I remember reading about some tv manufacturers automatically scanning for and connecting to open internet connections to update and upload telemetry data even when no Wi-Fi network was provided. To my knowledge I can't find any reliable first-hand accounts of this happening. It's all pseudonymous internet commenters claiming it's happening, or tech news websites reposting said claims. For a phenomena that should be so easy to reproduce (all you need is a smart TV plus a laptop with wireshark), the absence of reliable evidence should be used as evidence against its existence. It's in the same category as "facebook is secretly eavesdroping on your conversations".
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  > Just don't ever give it the wifi password This works for now but Amazon is already working on a way to share messages from devices through echo dots etc in the area. Even your neighbors'. It's intended precisely for this purpose :( To capture days from those trying to stay under the radar. It's called sidewalk.
Beta-7 4y ago
There are TVs, here most are Chinese white label brands, that instead of using Android TV just have a microcontroller running Android on it. In fact I've installed Android on a Raspberry pi and the experience was literally the same. There's no smart features unless you select the input to Smart TV (which i assume is some internal HDMI interface renamed to Smart TV on the UI)
unfocused 4y ago
Yes! I’ve bought many for my old work as we don’t allow smart tvs. I bought the Panasonics and never had any issues. https://na.panasonic.com/us/audio-video-solutions/professional-displays https://na.panasonic.com/us/audio-video-solutions/profession... Im sure there are other companies. Im on my phone so can’t research. Look for “digital displays” instead of tv. Good luck!
- julianwachholz 4y ago
  I know them as 'digital signage' or 'hospitality tvs' and they do work for their intended use. But they're usually a lot more expensive than their consumer counterparts? My guess is they are either heavily subsidized and/or built to be powered ON 24/7?
  - langsoul-com 4y ago
    Perhaps the use case, companies are willing to shell out more than a price concious individual.
  - downrightmike 4y ago
    The MFG make more money on selling ads to you than you pay for the TV.
    - michaelmrose 4y ago
      This wasn't a business model that was a factor in the launch of 1080p high def TVs or the subsequent fall in prices. I don't even recall it being much of a factor in the launch of 4K TVs which launched at typically very high prices and begun falling in price without ads becoming a big thing. I think this is just unacceptable greed.
    - dehrmann 4y ago
      This seems high to me. I'd love to see actual numbers on revenue from this type of TV ads.
walterbell 4y ago
Some LG TVs, which are based on WebOS, can be jailbroken, https://rootmy.tv/ https://rootmy.tv/
- jeffbee 4y ago
  My webOS TV has been online the whole time and it has just sat there in silent service without any stupidity at all. Hardly seems worth the trouble of jailbreaking it.
gennarro 4y ago
This is a bit outdated but it helped me out in the past: https://helpatmyhome.com/best-non-smart-tv/ https://helpatmyhome.com/best-non-smart-tv/
cat_plus_plus 4y ago
It's one of the things that doesn't make sense anymore, like cars with manual transmission. Smarts in smart TV might cost $25 per unit, but OEMs get paid for streaming service placements on remote / home screen and a cut of revenue if users sign up. Even without streaming functionality, TV would still need some smarts to display tuner/inputs/settings UI and it's cheaper to develop Android apps than go custom route. Plus even users who don't use smart functionality much like software updates and launching Netflix directly from TV remote. So just get a TV based on features and don't connect to WiFi if you are not interested in smart functionality. Think of all the money you are saving by buying a high volume consumer product rather than a commercial display that goes for at least twice more.
- bananamerica 4y ago
  TIL most car in my country doesn't make any sense :P
  - IgorPartola 4y ago
    Like it or not, it is true. As reliability and performance of automatics gets better and the gas mileage is now also on par and the cost to produce an automatic is reduced by economies of scale, manual transmissions are going by way of horse and buggies. It’s not everywhere but it will be. Also consider that EVs have different requirements for their transmissions than ICE vehicles and there are no EVs with manual transmissions as far as I know at all.
    - julianwachholz 4y ago
      For your interest: Brammo made the Empulse R, a fully electric motorcycle with a six-speed manual transmission. https://www.wired.com/2012/08/brammo-empulse-r/ https://www.wired.com/2012/08/brammo-empulse-r/
      - IgorPartola 4y ago
        That is indeed pretty cool. I don’t think that it’s impossible to have a manual transmissions with an EV by any means. Just that most don’t see to include it. I really enjoy shifting gears on my bike. But if motorcycles didn’t come with manual transmissions I don’t think it would be the worst thing.
rogierhofboer 4y ago
Philips Momentum series, technically game monitors, but do come in 55 inch. Note these do not have any DVB tuner, so you’ll always need a separate mediabox to watch TV.
FunnyBadger 4y ago
I simply have NEVER connected the TV directly to the Internet - I have HDMI from other devices I trust more connected but that's it. I don't really watch any broadcast TV - instead it's either my own tape/DVD content or internet content available from other devices. There are enough ethical violations by Samsung to NEVER trust them when it comes to internet anything. So just omit the connection. Basically treat any TV today as a monitor and nothing more. Never make a buying decision based on any feature that isn't specifically monitor-related (e.g. only resolution matters; no other whiz-bang features should enter into the decision).
- somat 4y ago
  I like to run a public wifi access point. lately all it appears to be doing is letting the neighbors samsung tv phone home. sigh sorry about that, this is why we can't have nice things.
huhtenberg 4y ago
I have this Sony TV and it can be used cleanly without any Smart features or connecting it to the Internet. I turn it on, use the "input" button on remote control to switch between different HDMI ports and that's it. Haven't been exposed to any Smart features, nags, etc. for as long as I remember. https://www.sony.com/ng/electronics/televisions/a9g-series https://www.sony.com/ng/electronics/televisions/a9g-series
foogazi 4y ago
I have a TCL with Roku that I was able to turn into a dumb display for my AppleTV Turned off networking and did factory reset The biggest annoyance was the Roku “smart” remote needing new batteries every couple of weeks
- aviditas 4y ago
  My roku remote finally died after consuming an obscene amount of batteries over the years. RCA has a roku compatible universal remote. Doesn't have the headphone jack or voice assist but I have yet to replace the batteries so it's a net win.
- jrm4 4y ago
  A thing they seem to go out of their way to hide: TCL + Roku TVs (and probably other models?) have one physical button that you can use to turn on and off and change inputs. It's well-hidden, under the center logo.
rasengan 4y ago
Get a nice Gaming monitor that doesn't do much other than display usually and have built in speakers usually.
- sphars 4y ago
  One such gaming monitor is the Gigabyte Aorus: https://www.gigabyte.com/Monitor/AORUS-FO48U https://www.gigabyte.com/Monitor/AORUS-FO48U
IgorPartola 4y ago
https://www.newegg.com/Commercial-TVs/SubCategory/ID-3672 https://www.newegg.com/Commercial-TVs/SubCategory/ID-3672 Try this. You’ll likely pay more but your TV won’t be subsidized by ads and such.
- tootie 4y ago
  Yeah, these are commercial signage displays. Compared to average retail models, these tend to have thicker, sturdier (and much heavier) housings, higher brightness, more resistance to burn-in, better heat dissipation and a dizzying array of inputs. Most of which is entirely superfluous for home use, but they can actually be worth the money. They're also typically sold without stands but will have VESA mount points.
  - danachow 4y ago
    As far as burn in - even most newer consumer displays have similar anti burn features. And notably those LG signage TVs still run webOS.
- jeffbee 4y ago
  Many displays made for this market have atrocious picture quality and no video processing features because their target customers don't care about them, they only care about brightness and longevity.
  - IgorPartola 4y ago
    Wait so you want consumer features? Well there is the Samsung Smart TV we can offer you…
    - jeffbee 4y ago
      I don't know what "consumer features" means but many commercial signage displays lack any kind of video processing, like de-interlace, pull-down, noise reduction, sharpen, etc.
Zigurd 4y ago
I'm in the process of looking for a good 4k TV. I'm not worried about the smart features in the TV. I plan on using an outboard device to control the TV. In my case, a Chromecast. If I don't put the smart TV on my network, it can't phone home. Of course Google knows what I watch. But if I were more paranoid, I could put a DVD player and OTA antenna on the TV and still not network it. Because many users will hook up their smart TV, the makers of those sets get subsidized, in the same way bloatware end up on Windows laptops and non-Pixel Androids. I'll take the w re the price.
tlrobinson 4y ago
More important to me than lack of “smart” features (as long as it is functional without using them or connecting to the internet) is responsiveness to user input. I just want a TV I can quickly turn on/off and change volume and input. My current Vizio is extremely sluggish for some reason. Maybe that’s correlated with smart features…
- CodeWriter23 4y ago
  It’s correlated with input latency of the TV. Your tv may have a “gaming” setup option, that will decrease latency to a reasonable level. rtings.com has a lot of make/model-specific docs on this.
tech234a 4y ago
In the US, Best Buy still sells a few decent non-smart TVs under their Insignia store brand, for example: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-43-class-n10-series-led-full-hd-tv/6319495.p?skuId=6319495 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-43-class-n10-series-le...
- NoThisIsMe 4y ago
  Just got one of these on Craigslist for $100. No complaints!
- elabajaba 4y ago
  Only if you don't care about picture quality.
  - Geonode 4y ago
    Insignia panels are usually previous year Samsung or other high end panels. They're excellent.
    - elabajaba 4y ago
      That's just a straight up lie. The current best Insignia TV (the F50 line) has a crappy 60hz panel with no local dimming, no real hdr, bad gradient handling, a bad scalar, mediocre colours, and low hz PWM dimming. It's honestly a shit TV that will give people headaches due to the low 240hz PWM frequency (ideally you wouldn't use PWM dimming at all). It also lacks variable refresh rate support (which modern consoles have), and can't do 4:4:4 chroma in case you ever wanted to use it with a computer. It is most definitely not a high end panel. They're cheap, and that's about the only thing they have going for them. Re: Samsung, they only makes a few TVs that are decent these days. They've ruined their brand by removing features from mid tier models and soured enthusiasts due to their terrible laggy ad-ridden interface, the cheating in benchmarks, the downgrading of panels in high end models to low contrast IPS panels, and the lack of Dolby Vision because they want people to use their own HDR10+ standard (not to be confused with HDR10).
enos_feedler 4y ago
I want a dumb tv but with one smart feature: the ability to download software emulations of these terrible hdmi sticks so I don’t have to spend $35+ on each one. Imagine a tv with no ports but the ability to pull the souls of these roku, fire, google tv, apple tv and probably a microsoft one soon. I want the tv to manage all of my bluetooth connections and hot swap to the appropriate “OS” when i reach for each bluetooth remote/controller. This minimizes the role of the tv itself to a thin layer of sensor/peripheral management and routing the video feed to the oppropriate OS
- vatys 4y ago
  That sounds like a smart TV, or at least what one should be. Like an actually well made, non buggy, secure smart TV.
- downrightmike 4y ago
  plex
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  All of those devices are another useless layer to select an "app" that serves as a client for various streaming services. There is no utility to be had from visualizing multiple entire OS to run their respective nearly identical apps and a unique but useless settings and app switcher gui. You can experience an actual decrease in complexity simply by getting a device that supports the streaming services desired and reducing the "smart" TV to the dumb duty of displaying the content that comes in via the device's input.
  - enos_feedler 4y ago
    I agree with what you are saying, but I think it is futile to force all of these distribution platforms to disappear. You will never get everything you want on a single platform. Something will always be missing. The only way to get it all is to have access to all the operating systems. Therefore, as a user, I just want good hardware that respects what all of these players are trying to do but makes my life as easy as possible. In my view, this is what hardware should do. Having a TV trying to stick it’s own ugly UI in front of all these other ugly UIs is just making the problem worse, not better. I would rather it not even have it’s own remote. It’s like everyone promises their remote will be the one you will use, but in reality you just added another remote to the living room. You didn’t solve it you just made it worse. The best TV right now actually subtracts, not adds.
neuralRiot 4y ago
Get commercial grade TVs https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-55-class-be55t-h-led-4k-commercial-grade-tv/6407620.p?skuId=6407620 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-55-class-be55t-h-led-4k...
- blamazon 4y ago
  Plus one on this. My employer buys tens of thousands of 50-80 inch TVs a year and none of them are "smart." The supply is out there. Do expect to pay more though.
someweirdperson 4y ago
My panasonic non-android (something based on firefox-os I think) has a setting to not load related online-data when switch to a channel until explicity pushing a button to do so. That option was added in the most recent update. However, it also has some built-in netflix/prime/youtube/... apps. And I have seen at least some network traffic that seemed realated to those, even though I never started them. Maybe just loading updates, maybe leaking data. I don't know. I didn't check since the last update though. It's not perfect, but seems much less bad than most others.
gwbas1c 4y ago
I think my 50" Sony didn't nag me to connect it to Wifi. (I bought it to use as a computer monitor.) I did connect it to Wifi after a few days, because sometimes I use the smart features. One thing to consider: If you aren't looking for broadcast TV, use a computer monitor.
rvieira 4y ago
I have an LG SmartTV that I use "offline" (watch streaming services via a Playstation connected to it). Curiously, I've connected it once to try the bundled apps (e.g. Netflix) and the Playstation ones had much better picture quality.
asimpletune 4y ago
They’re called digital displays
soared 4y ago
@dang Can we create a list of reposts that get auto killed? This post and “does advertising even work?” are reposted seemingly every month.
- undersuit 4y ago
  I'd rather not we not have this. While reposts are annoying sometimes I'm the lucky person of the day that gets to read something new. https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/
- stormbrew 4y ago
  That sounds like a great way to wind up with a single locked 8 year old post full of links to products that aren't sold anymore.
echelon 4y ago
Horrifying realization - Once maximum customer penetration from WiFi is reached (not all consumers will add TVs to the network), these companies will bake in cheap cellular transceivers and contract directly with wireless carriers without any ability to opt out. They probably won't be used for actual content - just low bandwidth spying and ads. It's what the early kindles used (called "whispernet"). Soon a lot of products may bake little radios in to spy on us. Consumer spy tech will start to resemble cold war techniques.
undersuit 4y ago
What about getting a smart TV that respects you, because you paid a premium. I have a Sharp/NEC c651q. The Raspberry Pi 3 Compute Module in it lets me watch media on the internet(newer models will accept the RPi4 CM). It has no integration with Netflix, Amazon, Apple, etc.
- stormbrew 4y ago
  Oh this is really interesting. I had no idea this was a thing. Does the compute module need to run anything special or does it just behave as an input separate from any HDMI or whatever other inputs on the back?
  - undersuit 4y ago
    I can install some tools maintained on a Github repo that help integrate the Pi with the TV: https://github.com/SharpNECDisplaySolutions/nec_rpi_config_tool https://github.com/SharpNECDisplaySolutions/nec_rpi_config_t...
- account-5 4y ago
  This sounds right up my street. My crappy smart TV is the worse. I went searching and this warning stood out: > Legal Disclaimer To California Residents >WARNING: This product can expose you to chemicals including Styrene and Formaldehyde (gas), which are known to the State of California to cause cancer, and Lead, which is known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. For more information go to www.p65warnings.ca.gov
  - opencl 4y ago
    I have never seen a TV that doesn't have the prop 65 warning and would be shocked if any exist.
  - ornornor 4y ago
    Fwiw everything gets a prop 65 warning.
- 4y ago
thefourthchime 4y ago
It's expensive, but if you get an AppleTV with the new remotes you can control the power/volume from that. Get any TV you like and never set it up, switch it to an HDMI input, and put the remote in a drawer. You could also do the same with FireTV, Chrome, or Roku, but those all have ads.
samstave 4y ago
If you want this feature, NEVER use a smart TV. Especially VIZIO. (Can take screen shots of any screen tied to their network) LG pipes all visual data back to south korea. Philips is just incompetent... So the answer is, decline all TOS agreements, do not ever connect the TV to internet, use HDMI inout from external devices (not USB)... --- And even still, this can't be trusted... But the fact is, that all the externals (the Rokus, Gbits, fire, who cares) -- they are all doing the same tracking. The benefit though is that all the externals ONLY have access (AFAIK at this point) to the stream data/account. In the case of VIZIO, they are actually watching your literal video screen and monitoring the fingerprint of the RGB layout of the image on screen in a grid and comparing it to the DB they build and ingest against their lib... and if they dont recognize it, they can still take offline screenshots and compare those to channels they ingest for content outside of cable streams... Basically at the end of the day, you TV is as much as a source as is anything else... Source.
newhotelowner 4y ago
New LG's commercial line (Hospitality) is mostly a smart TV with no apps visible (no option to launch it). They just disable apps on the cheaper version. My non-smart LG commercial TV has an Ethernet port. As a curious person, I connected to the network. It started pinging LG servers. I was able to launch Youtube on the TV from the network. Once the app is open, I could use remote to control it.
Mountain_Skies 4y ago
I bought a low end RCA 4K tv from Wal-Mart at the start of the pandemic that has no smart features. It does have a USB port but doesn't appear to be able to do anything with it. There's nothing online. The on screen menus are sluggish but if you don't change settings often, that's not much of an issue.
keerthiko 4y ago
This is why large monitors are so expensive, because they aren't subsidized by the ads large TVs force upon their users for the most basic usage. But if you can afford it, there are 40+" 4k and 8k monitors to which you can plug AppleTV/Chromecast/a small PC with a budget discrete graphics card. Or you can get a conference projector if no monitor on the market meets your size needs.
- 323 4y ago
  > because they aren't subsidized by the ads That's a myth, even if subsidies do exist. Monitors were always more expensive than similar size TVs because they have better specs, more features, and longer warranty. Linus Tech Tips on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWH1zXmFgl8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWH1zXmFgl8 1997 Baltimore Sun article about this: https://archive.ph/mhxET https://archive.ph/mhxET
  - keerthiko 4y ago
    The technical advantages of monitors are valid reasons for higher cost (refresh rate, response time, color accuracy, gsync/freesync), but as mentioned in the video itself, TVs do have enough tech that monitors don't to offset those differences (size+resolution, brightness uniformity, OLED/curved/thinness options), so it should be a wash. However, the video you linked doesn't really address the advertisement subsidy point at all (I searched the transcript for any references to make sure), so it isn't really an argument that the ad-subsidy is a myth. Plenty of reporting and discussion and evidence that traditional TV advertising industry (untargeted cable/broadcast ads) is declining in revenue, but the overall TV ad industry revenue is growing (share taken up by smart TV and streaming service ads) is going up. Streaming services absolutely use platform data where they can access it (ie smart TVs). A 1997 article sounds like it would have no context whatsoever about the 2020 smart TV advertising landscape (very very different from traditional TV advertising). Ad revshare is just so lucrative, especially for ~$0 cost/unit for the manufacturer that it pays for every smart feature and onboard computer and then some. The difference in cost for net-comparable features is still apparent — the cheapest monitor at size-resolution combo X with worst refresh rate/response time/color accuracy is still more expensive than the cheapest smart TV at X (roughly comparable features).
godmode2019 4y ago
Soon they will ship TVs with sim cards to track those hard to reach tech worker / drug dealer market
themitigating 4y ago
Just turn off the wifi
ternus 4y ago
Some BenQ projectors, including the just-released X3000i I recently picked up, consign the "smart" portion to an Android TV HDMI+USB stick that plugs in inside the body of the projector. I just never plugged mine in and the projector works fine.
dragonwriter 4y ago
A TV is just a monitor with a TV tuner. Right now, TV tuners and smart features are almost universally found together. But if you are using an external video source (especially if it's not OTA tv in the first place, so you don't need a tuner), you can just use a monitor (or “commercial display”), instead of a “TV”.
kwatsonafter 4y ago
I'm really sickened after reading this thread that the basic answer here is, "no."
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  Not true, author just asks for a monitor, not TV.
PontifexMinimus 4y ago
If you live in the UK a Freeview USB stick might do what you want, e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/August-Freeview-Tuner-Stick-DVB-T202/dp/B00527OCT6 https://www.amazon.co.uk/August-Freeview-Tuner-Stick-DVB-T20...
t0bia_s 4y ago
Yes, it's called a monitor.
- Koshkin 4y ago
  Not for long, a wave of “smart monitors” is already on its way.
  - t0bia_s 4y ago
    Where? I never seen any.
vie00001 4y ago
These are dumb TVs, also without a tuner. https://nogis.at/ https://nogis.at/
xfitm3 4y ago
Commercial panels are a great option, although, can be more expensive.
GWBullshit 4y ago
You and I suspect half the country. During the 90s I remember there was this big fuss when Gateway 2000 was introducing the first "smart/PC" TV to the market. Steve Jobs went on record as saying something along the lines of "Not only will it not work out, it shouldn't, because TV is the place where people head to at the end of the day to shut their brains off, not figure out even more ways to interact with tech." It made sense then and like Steve Jobs said, the Gateway smart/PC TV turned out to be a major flop at the time despite tech mags raving about its introduction. It would seem, unfortunately, that the approach manufacturers seem to have taken in modern times is one of "WRONG! We'll MAKE it work by shoving the approach down consumers' throats by making sure ALL TVs insist on spending over a half hour pushing buttons before people can sit down to watch something and relax."
- paulcole 4y ago
  > making sure ALL TVs insist on spending over a half hour pushing buttons before people can sit down to watch something and relax Is there any TV that’s even within an order of magnitude of this HN-tech-bro-I-own-my-device nightmare fantasy?
  - GWBullshit 4y ago
    I believe so – there's this little-known, oldie-but-goodie brand called, "Torrents+External Drive®" in the West, and China has their own approach to "I can't even anymore" called "TikTok" ... perfect for just sitting down for a while and just watching shit instead of rolling out a project management spreadsheet to figure out what to watch and how to set things up so you can actually watch it.
    - paulcole 4y ago
      These AI text generators still have a ways to go before they can fool me!
      - GWBullshit 4y ago
usrn 4y ago
Computer monitors and projectors are still free of the nonsense.
toolchange 4y ago
zerof1l 4y ago
Yes, check out Swedx signage display.
chippytea 4y ago
When I received my TV I took it out of it's box removed 12 screws on the back and unplugged the wifi module. Now I just have it connected to my old laptop running linux with a bluetooth keyboard.
toolchange 4y ago
neilv 4y ago
I've just started shopping for a dumb TV/monitor that's 4K, HDR, maybe 35-55 inches, built-in good-enough speakers (like my 2009 Sony Bravia TV), power switch on&off based on HDMI from PS4/PS5 (for simplicity). It'd be nice to find genuine, well-informed reviews of dumb-TVs, and an up-to-date holistic look at the current options. (Most of what I've found so far are sketchy SEO sites, farming random Amazon Affiliate kickbacks with low-cost content.)
clouddrover 4y ago
The solution is to buy a large 4K monitor rather than a TV and then control the TV side of it yourself using MythTV or similar: https://www.mythtv.org/ https://www.mythtv.org/
5555624 4y ago
A few weeks ago, I bought a Sceptre (Komodo) 40-inch LED HDTV from Amazon. No smart features at all. I've been satisfied with it so far.
ChicagoDave 4y ago
I ignore the smart TV software entirely and stream everything through XBox apps.
MR4D 4y ago
You want to buy a “monitor”, not a TV. For instance there is this from LG [0] or this from Dell [1]. Just do a search for “large 4K monitor” and you’ll find more. [0] - https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-43-ultrafine-4k-uhd-monitor-with-usb-c-connectivity-black/6416347.p?skuId=6416347 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-43-ultrafine-4k-uhd-monitor-... [1] - https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-55-4k-conference-room-monitor-c5519q/apd/210-arev/monitors-monitor-accessories https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-55-4k-conference-r...
- mcculley 4y ago
  Is there a proper term or category for a monitor meant for high end installations that has no branding on it (e.g., as one would put into a display at a museum)? I refuse to buy something with a logo on the front of it.
  - NonNefarious 4y ago
    I got a projector. No "smart" bullshit, branding issues, or other obnoxiousness.
    - naikrovek 4y ago
      congratulations. a projector won't work for everyone.
      - NonNefarious 4y ago
        You're welcome.
  - semi-extrinsic 4y ago
    You might want to search for "Public Display" monitors. Although these usually have some smart-ish software used to run digital signage and stuff, they probably don't spy on you.
  - GoodJokes 4y ago
kulesh 4y ago
https://pointerclicker.com/best-dumb-tv/ https://pointerclicker.com/best-dumb-tv/ Search “dumb tv” at hn, there’s a post with 600+ comments and tons of option
Hippocrates 4y ago
Just don’t connect it to your WiFi, and instead use an Apple TV. It’s far better than any built-in UI and I like the airplay integration as well.
donohoe 4y ago
I think the alternative question is: Is there a TV on the market that is easy to convert into a dumb TV? For example; I am happy to use just Apple TV. Is there a low-risk way to cripple my TCL so all it does is allow for input via Apple TV and not run other process?
GoodJokes 4y ago
pluc 4y ago
This is my answer every time this comes up: https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.html?sort=tbt.parent_pdtype&order=DESC https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.htm...
xanaxagoras 4y ago
Yes, it's called any TV you don't give internet access.
infotogivenm 4y ago
TVs today are an absolute hellscape. It’s crazy that my 15 year-old samsung is superior to today’s market in every way except resolution; no network connection/random updates/ads/screenshot hashes being send, a simple and instantaneous remote, and it doesn’t take a full minute to turn on or change the input. Nobody wants this garbage if they actually understand what is happening. The only “solution” I know is to never set up the network, and use appletv or similar set top box (which will still have unobtrusive content placement ads and likely tracking). A VLAN might work to support casting but is a administrative headache. I’d pay primo money for a dumb samsung that just ran their 2008 firmware. LG now has TVs with cameras built in, the stuff of nightmares. Idiocracy is real.
malikNF 4y ago
Bought a LG C1 last year, every-time I got the option to say "NO" to any agreement I said no. So far I haven't seen a single advert in the past year. The voice commands don't work. But who really wants to talk to their tv lol. I mainly use it for Plex and my Xbox, everything works really well for those purposes, so I appreciate LG at-least giving me the option to not use all of its "smart" features. --edit-- I am using this TV in B.C Canada.
jiveturkey 4y ago
I've owned multiple generations of LG, and without setting up Internet, it works just fine without any nagging.
vsskanth 4y ago
I happened to be in a in- construction facility being built for a F100 company and saw they were using Samsung "digital signage" TVs for the meeting rooms and lobbies. Fairly certain these TVs will never connect to the internet outside the company firewall so they must be designed for that. https://www.samsung.com/us/business/displays/ https://www.samsung.com/us/business/displays/
bo1024 4y ago
- Sceptre brand dumb TV (lower-end displays, available through Walmart) - "Monitor" as intended for computers (usually not that large, but this is changing) - "Commercial display" as intended for restaurants or hotels (often still have some smart features but more controllable; usually fairly expensive). Example https://www.lg.com/us/business/commercial-displays https://www.lg.com/us/business/commercial-displays - Projector
theseobosscom 4y ago
Buy smart tv an remove wifi module
matthewmcg 4y ago
If your budget permits, I recommend getting an LG OLED in your desired size and a good AV receiver. Connect your preferred streaming box (we like the AppleTV) to the receiver and use the streaming box remote to control everything. We have this setup and the LG has never been connected to the internet and its remote went back in the box after initial calibration and setup.
- balfirevic 4y ago
  What purpose does AV receiver have here? Can't you connect Apple TV directly to the TV?
bumblebritches5 4y ago
berlincount 4y ago
https://swedx.se https://swedx.se has Digital Sinage products without Smart features - or tuner. Add what you need only. Also comes with touch.
pabs3 4y ago
If Software Freedom Conservancy win their lawsuit against Vizio for GPL violations in their TVs, you will probably be able to install open source Linux distros with Kodi on any Vizio TV and soon afterwards lots of other smart TV vendors will be similar. There is nothing wrong with a smart TV, the problem is allowing the vendor operating system to remain on the device after you purchase it. https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html
bofh23 4y ago
I have a Samsung TV with “smart” features but only connect it to the Internet when using a streaming app. I still use cable for TV so I don’t use builtin apps often. Most of the time the TV is set to unconfigured WiFi so it can’t reach the Internet. I temporarily switch it to Ethernet when I need Internet connectivity.
carom 4y ago
Yes, Sceptre. I got it from the last hn thread. I have an Apple TV hooked up, it's great. The audio is mediocre so get a sound bar.
indigodaddy 4y ago
There is this RCA model RLDED5098-UHD https://www.amazon.com/RCA-RLED4945-UHD-49-Inch-Ultra-LED/dp/B073XSTSD8 https://www.amazon.com/RCA-RLED4945-UHD-49-Inch-Ultra-LED/dp...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
car 4y ago
Sceptre makes 'dumb' TV's. Also pretty affordable, but most seem out of stock. https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.html https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.htm...
Wistar 4y ago
Although it is only 31" and appears to be back-ordered just about everywhere, the Sony BVM-HX310 is a straight monitor with top-notch rendition. It is about $30k, however. For about $14k, the 32" Sony PVM-X3200 is perhaps more realistic.
sunpazed 4y ago
I recently purchased a Sony A90J after owning a “dumb” TV for over a decade. I was pleased to see that there was a “TV only” option that did not require me to use any of the “Smart” TV features. In fact, given I can control the TV through my Apple 4k device I never have to experience any of the televisions interface (apart from settings and inputs)
- sunpazed 4y ago
  I forgot to mention, there is no sounds, no jingle, no logo when operating the television — which is refreshing given that my LG and Samsung appliances are constantly jingling for my attention and engagement.
ornornor 4y ago
Panasonic OLEDs are it i think. I have a FZ800 (there are more recent updates of this model) and it’s perfect. No ads anywhere. Turns on (everything ready to use) within 5 seconds, picture is amazing because OLED, has no bezel so no branding. It is technically a smart tv because it has Netflix and other downloadable apps but it works perfectly fine without internet or using any of these apps: for the features that matter it behaves like a regular non smart tv without any obnoxious interface, just plain blue text on grey boxes.
rbanffy 4y ago
I wonder if any of the smart TVs out there can be easily rooted and turned into something like an RPi with an attached display. I’m always disappointed that the average LCD display post 2010-ish couldn’t be turned into an X terminal.
matty22 4y ago
Don't listen to these people saying to buy a monitor. Look at Sceptre TVs. They sell dumb panel TVs and they are great.
epolanski 4y ago
Just disconnect from wifi

390 points by nborwankar 4y ago

Or is there at least one where Smart mode can be turned off verifiably AND it doesn’t keep enticing you to turn it on by withholding ease of use or some convenience feature until you just give up?

comprev 4y ago

I use a KAGIS U43IP7UHD for my XBox1X (games + Netflix) and recently had the "television license inspector" drop by. The unit does not have any TV receiving hardware from the factory and therefore excludes me from paying a license here in Ireland. The guy was both surprised and impressed I'd researched the topic!

giantg2 4y ago

This has been brought up several times on here. Maybe you can use the search to find those similar questions. One of the suggestions I remember seeing is to buy a large display/monitor instead of a TV. I don't remember the specifics.

andrewf 4y ago
Here's one from this week, but I don't think this is the most price sensitive option - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31674957 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31674957
mtmail 4y ago
"Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29382643 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29382643
jancsika 4y ago
> Maybe you can use the search to find those similar questions. But the answers are probably out of date by now. E.g., my answer about buying a cheapo Spectre from Walmart-- that one has been out of stock for at least two of the several times this topic has been brought up now.
- aviditas 4y ago
  Walmart stocks them during November for shopping season. The sceptre tvs are my go to for large viewing needs. If you are into perfect picture quality, it takes some settings tweaking to get to tolerable but in my opinion is ideal for just normal TV watching and video games.
  - jancsika 4y ago
    Ah, I see. Is it always the same old hardware and software? Because if they suddenly start shipping with AdJank 0.2 you're back to square one.
    - aviditas 4y ago
      It's as dumb as can be. There is no hardware for networking; caveat on this is I haven't cracked it open but my network is monitored and I have not seen a peep from it in 4 years. It can read media files from a USB or external drive which is nice. If you have a lot of devices to connect, you'd be best suited to get a nice hmdi switch, but I only have three so a nice universal remote and some cable management works just fine. -edited for spelling

LeoPanthera 4y ago

Rtings maintains a list of ad-free TVs. This isn't the same as smart-free, but maybe that's what some people want: https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/ads-in-smart-tv https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/ads-in-smart-tv (The ones with a "10" in the ad-free column.) The often-given advice of "just don't connect it to the internet" is viable only sometimes. My TV shipped with some missing features that were enabled after a software update. Perhaps plug it in, update the software, and then unplug it again.

wmf 4y ago
They're using a fairly narrow definition of ads though. Vizio is full of recommendations for a mediocre streaming service owned by Vizio.
- atomicfiredoll 4y ago
  Vizio has also apparently decided to ramp up it's ad growth [0] and Jump Ad [1] platform as well. It makes me real glad that I didn't drop the money on a P Series Quantum due to technical issues people experienced. I've stopped considering them completely since. It's important to remember these reviews can become outdated with firmware, too. Even old TVs can suddenly start "benefiting viewers, content providers and advertisers" with "features" like ads playing as screensavers, and phoning the content of your screen back to Big Brother. Here's a related Reddit thread from the Jump Ad announcement [2]. [0] - https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/vizio-tv-buyers-are-becoming-the-product-vizio-sells-not-just-its-customers/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/vizio-tv-buyers-are-... [1] - https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1648829114 https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=... [2] - https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/tv303i/vizio_tvs_are_now_showing_banner_ads_over_live_tv/ https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/tv303i/vizio_tvs_a...
qbasic_forever 4y ago
Another option if you have good control over your router is to put the TV and other smart devices on a special subnet or vlan and only occasionally give it internet access for updates, etc. Maybe there's a good DNS-based ad blocker you could run on its vlan and nuke all of its ad and spy traffic too. This actually seems like a good market opportunity for yet another home device, a router with aggressive spyware and ad mitigation that's made to explicitly connect all your smart gadgets and untrusted devices that phone home.

jitl 4y ago

I’ve kept my Samsung offline since I purchased it in 2019. I’ve kept my LG offline since I purchased it in 2016. As long as you have an AppleTV or similar connected to service your need for “smarts” it won’t be hard to leave the TV offline. (I recommend LG over Samsung - Samsung TV has native undismissable ads from 2019 still)

Shank 4y ago
> As long as you have an AppleTV or similar connected to service your need for “smarts” it won’t be hard to leave the TV offline. Do these TVs start up and boot directly into the selected input for something like an Apple TV, or do you have to go to extra hoops when it starts up to switch to your desired input? I'd actually be perfectly happy with a smart TV that's disconnected if it never throws its UI in my face when I'm trying to just use an input for something.
- solardev 4y ago
  My "smart" Vizio TV and LG projectors just go directly to the last active input (in my case a Google TV). I never even remember they have their own built-in smart OSes because I never see them. However, these days, most of the streaming sticks have their own shitty recommendations and ads anyway, so unless you're doing a self-hosted Plex box or something, expect ads. And then of course there are the actual streaming service ads.
  - radley 4y ago
    The Apple TV menu only shows preview cards for apps in the top row. Most apps show what you're currently watching, but other apps (Prime Video, ATV+, Twitch) will show promos instead. Best to move these apps to the right end of the top row, or down into the 2nd or 3rd row.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- Fezzik 4y ago
  On TCL panels (recommended in a separate comment) you can toggle/select what input the TV boots to and then you’re never bothered again.

worldmerge 4y ago

Jeff Geerling just did a video on a commercial tv that even has a pi in it. Maybe look into digital signage stuff or even a large computer monitor or projector.

hbcondo714 4y ago
Yup, Jeff's write-up and video on NEC's Pi-powered 55“ Display model were posted here on HN just a couple days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31674957 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31674957 My comment was you can buy it via Walmart: https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEC-MultiSync-m551-55-Diagonal-Class-M-Series-LED-backlit-LCD-display-digital-signage-4K-UHD-2160p-3840-x-2160-HDR-edge-lit/133117283 https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEC-MultiSync-m551-55-Diagonal-Cl...
richardfey 4y ago
This one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-epPf7D8oMk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-epPf7D8oMk Note: Sharp paid him for this
- geerlingguy 4y ago
  Technically, they didn't pay... but they did send the display, speakers, stand, and Pi kit for review (I'm going to be integrating it into a new studio build—if I can get that to happen!). A silly distinction in some ways, but a distinction nonetheless. I explain how I accept different types of sponsorship / review samples in my youtube repo: https://github.com/geerlingguy/youtube#paid-videos--product-showcase-videos https://github.com/geerlingguy/youtube#paid-videos--product-...
  - richardfey 4y ago
    Sure, I only mentioned it because YouTube says that with a semitrasparent popup when video starts.
    - geerlingguy 4y ago
      Yeah; I do that because I like to make sure I'm 100% transparent about the fact that I didn't go to the store and buy the device that's in the video. A lot of content creators don't include any disclaimers if they were provided anything besides cash for a review :(

bitwize 4y ago

Sceptre sells dumb TVs. Often these are available for order through Wal-Mart's web site.

natural219 4y ago
Second this. I bought a 65" Sceptre TV a year or two ago for this exact reason, it works great, picture quality is awesome, and it was less than $600-700 IIRC. I plug in a chromecast for netflix etc but it's nice to know I can unplug it any time and just use HDMI if I want to.

donclark 4y ago

Or is there a process to turn a "smart tv" into a dumb tv? (per brand/make/model)

sathomasga 4y ago
Don't give it WiFi credentials. (I've got a 5-year-old Samsung that's never connected to any network and it works fine.)
- Matthias247 4y ago
  And don’t plug in an ethernet cable
- Grazester 4y ago
  One would think this would have been more obvious.
  - anonymousab 4y ago
    > One would think this would have been more obvious. Devices can refuse to function without a network connection, and the profits to be made from simply including a cellular connection of some sort for ad refresh + tracking are too high to be ignored forever. So this isn't a reliable, long-term solution.
    - astrostl 4y ago
      I have to think that far less than 1% of STV owners don't connect them. Adding hardware to capture whatever % of them it actually is seems extremely financially dubious to me, especially given how unlikely they are to have positive ad conversions.
    - Grazester 4y ago
      These are all hypothetical situations.
- johannes1234321 4y ago

secretsatan 4y ago

I have a sony bravia one. It is currently unplugged from the network and solely connected through my playstation. Admittedly i just passed the buck to sony through another device, but i’m quite happy using the ps5 (and previously ps4) as a media centre, it has netflix and all the others, plus plex, and that connects to my pi plex server + NAS drive, through which you can put on any content you like

moistly 4y ago

We need a circuits geek to create a website documenting “how to disable your tv’s wifi antenna.” Name it TVLobotomy.

adamredwoods 4y ago
Curious. I wonder if it's possible to get Tizen root-level access through another app: https://developer.samsung.com/smarttv/develop/getting-started/using-sdk/tv-device.html#connecting-the-tv-and-sdk https://developer.samsung.com/smarttv/develop/getting-starte... Here's how to do it through cable: http://wiki.samygo.tv/index.php?title=Ex-Link_Cable_for_J/K/M/Q/N/QN_Series http://wiki.samygo.tv/index.php?title=Ex-Link_Cable_for_J/K/...

Fezzik 4y ago

Buy a TCL panel and never connect it to the internet. They are technically marketed as Smart TVs but there is no requirement that you connect them, and there are zero prompts or limits if you don’t. I’ve been using them for years and love them, primarily for the stupidly simple remotes and UI.

walrus01 4y ago
there's often a reason TCLs are very cheap, however, the 55" 4K for sale at costco for $280 right now is fine if you only ever use it in a dark room, but even when cranked up to 100% brightness is near unusable in a sunny room when a samsung at 70% brightness is just fine.
- gruez 4y ago
  I was in the market for a TV a few years ago and after doing some research I concluded that quite a few of the best/bang models were from TCL. Of course, they weren't the bottom of the barrel models, and you have to do your homework ahead of time.
- Fezzik 4y ago
  I’ve got a 55” 4k set and I definitely don’t have that problem - I live in the Oregon high desert, where we get a ton of sun, and with my set located about 8’ from a 9’ x 16’ picture window I have never had trouble seeing even dark movies, a la Blade Runner, midday.
- djcapelis 4y ago
  If you haven’t yet, try turning on (or up) the micro contrast feature in the picture/display settings. Won’t solve everything, but can make a lot of dark scenes in a bright room a lot clearer to watch.

walrus01 4y ago

Just don't ever give it the wifi password. Drive the TV from a PS4/PS4, xbox series X or home theatre PC. Use the youtube/netflix/amazon video/whatever client software on those platforms. I have a thousand times more confidence that microsoft or sony will keep their operating system patched and free from zero days than some random OS on a TV. And at least they're big enough that their telemetry and data collection practices are documented. Yes, it's true you can't get much use out of an xbox series x without an internet connection, but at least you know what you're getting yourself into in advance.

mattnewton 4y ago
You may need to explicitly opt out somehow or connect the tv to a dummy network that blocks all traffic. I am having trouble finding the source on google again but I remember reading about some tv manufacturers automatically scanning for and connecting to open internet connections to update and upload telemetry data even when no Wi-Fi network was provided.
- gruez 4y ago
  >I am having trouble finding the source on google again but I remember reading about some tv manufacturers automatically scanning for and connecting to open internet connections to update and upload telemetry data even when no Wi-Fi network was provided. To my knowledge I can't find any reliable first-hand accounts of this happening. It's all pseudonymous internet commenters claiming it's happening, or tech news websites reposting said claims. For a phenomena that should be so easy to reproduce (all you need is a smart TV plus a laptop with wireshark), the absence of reliable evidence should be used as evidence against its existence. It's in the same category as "facebook is secretly eavesdroping on your conversations".
GekkePrutser 4y ago
> Just don't ever give it the wifi password This works for now but Amazon is already working on a way to share messages from devices through echo dots etc in the area. Even your neighbors'. It's intended precisely for this purpose :( To capture days from those trying to stay under the radar. It's called sidewalk.

Beta-7 4y ago

There are TVs, here most are Chinese white label brands, that instead of using Android TV just have a microcontroller running Android on it. In fact I've installed Android on a Raspberry pi and the experience was literally the same. There's no smart features unless you select the input to Smart TV (which i assume is some internal HDMI interface renamed to Smart TV on the UI)

unfocused 4y ago

Yes! I’ve bought many for my old work as we don’t allow smart tvs. I bought the Panasonics and never had any issues. https://na.panasonic.com/us/audio-video-solutions/professional-displays https://na.panasonic.com/us/audio-video-solutions/profession... Im sure there are other companies. Im on my phone so can’t research. Look for “digital displays” instead of tv. Good luck!

julianwachholz 4y ago
I know them as 'digital signage' or 'hospitality tvs' and they do work for their intended use. But they're usually a lot more expensive than their consumer counterparts? My guess is they are either heavily subsidized and/or built to be powered ON 24/7?
- langsoul-com 4y ago
  Perhaps the use case, companies are willing to shell out more than a price concious individual.
- downrightmike 4y ago
  The MFG make more money on selling ads to you than you pay for the TV.
  - michaelmrose 4y ago
    This wasn't a business model that was a factor in the launch of 1080p high def TVs or the subsequent fall in prices. I don't even recall it being much of a factor in the launch of 4K TVs which launched at typically very high prices and begun falling in price without ads becoming a big thing. I think this is just unacceptable greed.
  - dehrmann 4y ago
    This seems high to me. I'd love to see actual numbers on revenue from this type of TV ads.

walterbell 4y ago

Some LG TVs, which are based on WebOS, can be jailbroken, https://rootmy.tv/ https://rootmy.tv/

jeffbee 4y ago
My webOS TV has been online the whole time and it has just sat there in silent service without any stupidity at all. Hardly seems worth the trouble of jailbreaking it.

gennarro 4y ago

This is a bit outdated but it helped me out in the past: https://helpatmyhome.com/best-non-smart-tv/ https://helpatmyhome.com/best-non-smart-tv/

cat_plus_plus 4y ago

It's one of the things that doesn't make sense anymore, like cars with manual transmission. Smarts in smart TV might cost $25 per unit, but OEMs get paid for streaming service placements on remote / home screen and a cut of revenue if users sign up. Even without streaming functionality, TV would still need some smarts to display tuner/inputs/settings UI and it's cheaper to develop Android apps than go custom route. Plus even users who don't use smart functionality much like software updates and launching Netflix directly from TV remote. So just get a TV based on features and don't connect to WiFi if you are not interested in smart functionality. Think of all the money you are saving by buying a high volume consumer product rather than a commercial display that goes for at least twice more.

bananamerica 4y ago
TIL most car in my country doesn't make any sense :P
- IgorPartola 4y ago
  Like it or not, it is true. As reliability and performance of automatics gets better and the gas mileage is now also on par and the cost to produce an automatic is reduced by economies of scale, manual transmissions are going by way of horse and buggies. It’s not everywhere but it will be. Also consider that EVs have different requirements for their transmissions than ICE vehicles and there are no EVs with manual transmissions as far as I know at all.
  - julianwachholz 4y ago
    For your interest: Brammo made the Empulse R, a fully electric motorcycle with a six-speed manual transmission. https://www.wired.com/2012/08/brammo-empulse-r/ https://www.wired.com/2012/08/brammo-empulse-r/
    - IgorPartola 4y ago
      That is indeed pretty cool. I don’t think that it’s impossible to have a manual transmissions with an EV by any means. Just that most don’t see to include it. I really enjoy shifting gears on my bike. But if motorcycles didn’t come with manual transmissions I don’t think it would be the worst thing.

rogierhofboer 4y ago

Philips Momentum series, technically game monitors, but do come in 55 inch. Note these do not have any DVB tuner, so you’ll always need a separate mediabox to watch TV.

FunnyBadger 4y ago

I simply have NEVER connected the TV directly to the Internet - I have HDMI from other devices I trust more connected but that's it. I don't really watch any broadcast TV - instead it's either my own tape/DVD content or internet content available from other devices. There are enough ethical violations by Samsung to NEVER trust them when it comes to internet anything. So just omit the connection. Basically treat any TV today as a monitor and nothing more. Never make a buying decision based on any feature that isn't specifically monitor-related (e.g. only resolution matters; no other whiz-bang features should enter into the decision).

somat 4y ago
I like to run a public wifi access point. lately all it appears to be doing is letting the neighbors samsung tv phone home. sigh sorry about that, this is why we can't have nice things.

huhtenberg 4y ago

I have this Sony TV and it can be used cleanly without any Smart features or connecting it to the Internet. I turn it on, use the "input" button on remote control to switch between different HDMI ports and that's it. Haven't been exposed to any Smart features, nags, etc. for as long as I remember. https://www.sony.com/ng/electronics/televisions/a9g-series https://www.sony.com/ng/electronics/televisions/a9g-series

foogazi 4y ago

I have a TCL with Roku that I was able to turn into a dumb display for my AppleTV Turned off networking and did factory reset The biggest annoyance was the Roku “smart” remote needing new batteries every couple of weeks

aviditas 4y ago
My roku remote finally died after consuming an obscene amount of batteries over the years. RCA has a roku compatible universal remote. Doesn't have the headphone jack or voice assist but I have yet to replace the batteries so it's a net win.
jrm4 4y ago
A thing they seem to go out of their way to hide: TCL + Roku TVs (and probably other models?) have one physical button that you can use to turn on and off and change inputs. It's well-hidden, under the center logo.

rasengan 4y ago

Get a nice Gaming monitor that doesn't do much other than display usually and have built in speakers usually.

sphars 4y ago
One such gaming monitor is the Gigabyte Aorus: https://www.gigabyte.com/Monitor/AORUS-FO48U https://www.gigabyte.com/Monitor/AORUS-FO48U

IgorPartola 4y ago

https://www.newegg.com/Commercial-TVs/SubCategory/ID-3672 https://www.newegg.com/Commercial-TVs/SubCategory/ID-3672 Try this. You’ll likely pay more but your TV won’t be subsidized by ads and such.

tootie 4y ago
Yeah, these are commercial signage displays. Compared to average retail models, these tend to have thicker, sturdier (and much heavier) housings, higher brightness, more resistance to burn-in, better heat dissipation and a dizzying array of inputs. Most of which is entirely superfluous for home use, but they can actually be worth the money. They're also typically sold without stands but will have VESA mount points.
- danachow 4y ago
  As far as burn in - even most newer consumer displays have similar anti burn features. And notably those LG signage TVs still run webOS.
jeffbee 4y ago
Many displays made for this market have atrocious picture quality and no video processing features because their target customers don't care about them, they only care about brightness and longevity.
- IgorPartola 4y ago
  Wait so you want consumer features? Well there is the Samsung Smart TV we can offer you…
  - jeffbee 4y ago
    I don't know what "consumer features" means but many commercial signage displays lack any kind of video processing, like de-interlace, pull-down, noise reduction, sharpen, etc.

Zigurd 4y ago

I'm in the process of looking for a good 4k TV. I'm not worried about the smart features in the TV. I plan on using an outboard device to control the TV. In my case, a Chromecast. If I don't put the smart TV on my network, it can't phone home. Of course Google knows what I watch. But if I were more paranoid, I could put a DVD player and OTA antenna on the TV and still not network it. Because many users will hook up their smart TV, the makers of those sets get subsidized, in the same way bloatware end up on Windows laptops and non-Pixel Androids. I'll take the w re the price.

tlrobinson 4y ago

More important to me than lack of “smart” features (as long as it is functional without using them or connecting to the internet) is responsiveness to user input. I just want a TV I can quickly turn on/off and change volume and input. My current Vizio is extremely sluggish for some reason. Maybe that’s correlated with smart features…

CodeWriter23 4y ago
It’s correlated with input latency of the TV. Your tv may have a “gaming” setup option, that will decrease latency to a reasonable level. rtings.com has a lot of make/model-specific docs on this.

tech234a 4y ago

In the US, Best Buy still sells a few decent non-smart TVs under their Insignia store brand, for example: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-43-class-n10-series-led-full-hd-tv/6319495.p?skuId=6319495 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-43-class-n10-series-le...

NoThisIsMe 4y ago
Just got one of these on Craigslist for $100. No complaints!
elabajaba 4y ago
Only if you don't care about picture quality.
- Geonode 4y ago
  Insignia panels are usually previous year Samsung or other high end panels. They're excellent.
  - elabajaba 4y ago
    That's just a straight up lie. The current best Insignia TV (the F50 line) has a crappy 60hz panel with no local dimming, no real hdr, bad gradient handling, a bad scalar, mediocre colours, and low hz PWM dimming. It's honestly a shit TV that will give people headaches due to the low 240hz PWM frequency (ideally you wouldn't use PWM dimming at all). It also lacks variable refresh rate support (which modern consoles have), and can't do 4:4:4 chroma in case you ever wanted to use it with a computer. It is most definitely not a high end panel. They're cheap, and that's about the only thing they have going for them. Re: Samsung, they only makes a few TVs that are decent these days. They've ruined their brand by removing features from mid tier models and soured enthusiasts due to their terrible laggy ad-ridden interface, the cheating in benchmarks, the downgrading of panels in high end models to low contrast IPS panels, and the lack of Dolby Vision because they want people to use their own HDR10+ standard (not to be confused with HDR10).

enos_feedler 4y ago

I want a dumb tv but with one smart feature: the ability to download software emulations of these terrible hdmi sticks so I don’t have to spend $35+ on each one. Imagine a tv with no ports but the ability to pull the souls of these roku, fire, google tv, apple tv and probably a microsoft one soon. I want the tv to manage all of my bluetooth connections and hot swap to the appropriate “OS” when i reach for each bluetooth remote/controller. This minimizes the role of the tv itself to a thin layer of sensor/peripheral management and routing the video feed to the oppropriate OS

vatys 4y ago
That sounds like a smart TV, or at least what one should be. Like an actually well made, non buggy, secure smart TV.
downrightmike 4y ago
plex
michaelmrose 4y ago
All of those devices are another useless layer to select an "app" that serves as a client for various streaming services. There is no utility to be had from visualizing multiple entire OS to run their respective nearly identical apps and a unique but useless settings and app switcher gui. You can experience an actual decrease in complexity simply by getting a device that supports the streaming services desired and reducing the "smart" TV to the dumb duty of displaying the content that comes in via the device's input.
- enos_feedler 4y ago
  I agree with what you are saying, but I think it is futile to force all of these distribution platforms to disappear. You will never get everything you want on a single platform. Something will always be missing. The only way to get it all is to have access to all the operating systems. Therefore, as a user, I just want good hardware that respects what all of these players are trying to do but makes my life as easy as possible. In my view, this is what hardware should do. Having a TV trying to stick it’s own ugly UI in front of all these other ugly UIs is just making the problem worse, not better. I would rather it not even have it’s own remote. It’s like everyone promises their remote will be the one you will use, but in reality you just added another remote to the living room. You didn’t solve it you just made it worse. The best TV right now actually subtracts, not adds.

neuralRiot 4y ago

Get commercial grade TVs https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-55-class-be55t-h-led-4k-commercial-grade-tv/6407620.p?skuId=6407620 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-55-class-be55t-h-led-4k...

blamazon 4y ago
Plus one on this. My employer buys tens of thousands of 50-80 inch TVs a year and none of them are "smart." The supply is out there. Do expect to pay more though.

someweirdperson 4y ago

My panasonic non-android (something based on firefox-os I think) has a setting to not load related online-data when switch to a channel until explicity pushing a button to do so. That option was added in the most recent update. However, it also has some built-in netflix/prime/youtube/... apps. And I have seen at least some network traffic that seemed realated to those, even though I never started them. Maybe just loading updates, maybe leaking data. I don't know. I didn't check since the last update though. It's not perfect, but seems much less bad than most others.

gwbas1c 4y ago

I think my 50" Sony didn't nag me to connect it to Wifi. (I bought it to use as a computer monitor.) I did connect it to Wifi after a few days, because sometimes I use the smart features. One thing to consider: If you aren't looking for broadcast TV, use a computer monitor.

rvieira 4y ago

I have an LG SmartTV that I use "offline" (watch streaming services via a Playstation connected to it). Curiously, I've connected it once to try the bundled apps (e.g. Netflix) and the Playstation ones had much better picture quality.

asimpletune 4y ago

They’re called digital displays

soared 4y ago

@dang Can we create a list of reposts that get auto killed? This post and “does advertising even work?” are reposted seemingly every month.

undersuit 4y ago
I'd rather not we not have this. While reposts are annoying sometimes I'm the lucky person of the day that gets to read something new. https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/
stormbrew 4y ago
That sounds like a great way to wind up with a single locked 8 year old post full of links to products that aren't sold anymore.

echelon 4y ago

Horrifying realization - Once maximum customer penetration from WiFi is reached (not all consumers will add TVs to the network), these companies will bake in cheap cellular transceivers and contract directly with wireless carriers without any ability to opt out. They probably won't be used for actual content - just low bandwidth spying and ads. It's what the early kindles used (called "whispernet"). Soon a lot of products may bake little radios in to spy on us. Consumer spy tech will start to resemble cold war techniques.

undersuit 4y ago

What about getting a smart TV that respects you, because you paid a premium. I have a Sharp/NEC c651q. The Raspberry Pi 3 Compute Module in it lets me watch media on the internet(newer models will accept the RPi4 CM). It has no integration with Netflix, Amazon, Apple, etc.

stormbrew 4y ago
Oh this is really interesting. I had no idea this was a thing. Does the compute module need to run anything special or does it just behave as an input separate from any HDMI or whatever other inputs on the back?
- undersuit 4y ago
  I can install some tools maintained on a Github repo that help integrate the Pi with the TV: https://github.com/SharpNECDisplaySolutions/nec_rpi_config_tool https://github.com/SharpNECDisplaySolutions/nec_rpi_config_t...
account-5 4y ago
This sounds right up my street. My crappy smart TV is the worse. I went searching and this warning stood out: > Legal Disclaimer To California Residents >WARNING: This product can expose you to chemicals including Styrene and Formaldehyde (gas), which are known to the State of California to cause cancer, and Lead, which is known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. For more information go to www.p65warnings.ca.gov
- opencl 4y ago
  I have never seen a TV that doesn't have the prop 65 warning and would be shocked if any exist.
- ornornor 4y ago
  Fwiw everything gets a prop 65 warning.
4y ago

thefourthchime 4y ago

It's expensive, but if you get an AppleTV with the new remotes you can control the power/volume from that. Get any TV you like and never set it up, switch it to an HDMI input, and put the remote in a drawer. You could also do the same with FireTV, Chrome, or Roku, but those all have ads.

samstave 4y ago

If you want this feature, NEVER use a smart TV. Especially VIZIO. (Can take screen shots of any screen tied to their network) LG pipes all visual data back to south korea. Philips is just incompetent... So the answer is, decline all TOS agreements, do not ever connect the TV to internet, use HDMI inout from external devices (not USB)... --- And even still, this can't be trusted... But the fact is, that all the externals (the Rokus, Gbits, fire, who cares) -- they are all doing the same tracking. The benefit though is that all the externals ONLY have access (AFAIK at this point) to the stream data/account. In the case of VIZIO, they are actually watching your literal video screen and monitoring the fingerprint of the RGB layout of the image on screen in a grid and comparing it to the DB they build and ingest against their lib... and if they dont recognize it, they can still take offline screenshots and compare those to channels they ingest for content outside of cable streams... Basically at the end of the day, you TV is as much as a source as is anything else... Source.

newhotelowner 4y ago

New LG's commercial line (Hospitality) is mostly a smart TV with no apps visible (no option to launch it). They just disable apps on the cheaper version. My non-smart LG commercial TV has an Ethernet port. As a curious person, I connected to the network. It started pinging LG servers. I was able to launch Youtube on the TV from the network. Once the app is open, I could use remote to control it.

Mountain_Skies 4y ago

I bought a low end RCA 4K tv from Wal-Mart at the start of the pandemic that has no smart features. It does have a USB port but doesn't appear to be able to do anything with it. There's nothing online. The on screen menus are sluggish but if you don't change settings often, that's not much of an issue.

keerthiko 4y ago

This is why large monitors are so expensive, because they aren't subsidized by the ads large TVs force upon their users for the most basic usage. But if you can afford it, there are 40+" 4k and 8k monitors to which you can plug AppleTV/Chromecast/a small PC with a budget discrete graphics card. Or you can get a conference projector if no monitor on the market meets your size needs.

323 4y ago
> because they aren't subsidized by the ads That's a myth, even if subsidies do exist. Monitors were always more expensive than similar size TVs because they have better specs, more features, and longer warranty. Linus Tech Tips on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWH1zXmFgl8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWH1zXmFgl8 1997 Baltimore Sun article about this: https://archive.ph/mhxET https://archive.ph/mhxET
- keerthiko 4y ago
  The technical advantages of monitors are valid reasons for higher cost (refresh rate, response time, color accuracy, gsync/freesync), but as mentioned in the video itself, TVs do have enough tech that monitors don't to offset those differences (size+resolution, brightness uniformity, OLED/curved/thinness options), so it should be a wash. However, the video you linked doesn't really address the advertisement subsidy point at all (I searched the transcript for any references to make sure), so it isn't really an argument that the ad-subsidy is a myth. Plenty of reporting and discussion and evidence that traditional TV advertising industry (untargeted cable/broadcast ads) is declining in revenue, but the overall TV ad industry revenue is growing (share taken up by smart TV and streaming service ads) is going up. Streaming services absolutely use platform data where they can access it (ie smart TVs). A 1997 article sounds like it would have no context whatsoever about the 2020 smart TV advertising landscape (very very different from traditional TV advertising). Ad revshare is just so lucrative, especially for ~$0 cost/unit for the manufacturer that it pays for every smart feature and onboard computer and then some. The difference in cost for net-comparable features is still apparent — the cheapest monitor at size-resolution combo X with worst refresh rate/response time/color accuracy is still more expensive than the cheapest smart TV at X (roughly comparable features).

godmode2019 4y ago

Soon they will ship TVs with sim cards to track those hard to reach tech worker / drug dealer market

themitigating 4y ago

Just turn off the wifi

ternus 4y ago

Some BenQ projectors, including the just-released X3000i I recently picked up, consign the "smart" portion to an Android TV HDMI+USB stick that plugs in inside the body of the projector. I just never plugged mine in and the projector works fine.

dragonwriter 4y ago

A TV is just a monitor with a TV tuner. Right now, TV tuners and smart features are almost universally found together. But if you are using an external video source (especially if it's not OTA tv in the first place, so you don't need a tuner), you can just use a monitor (or “commercial display”), instead of a “TV”.

kwatsonafter 4y ago

I'm really sickened after reading this thread that the basic answer here is, "no."

t0bia_s 4y ago
Not true, author just asks for a monitor, not TV.

PontifexMinimus 4y ago

If you live in the UK a Freeview USB stick might do what you want, e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/August-Freeview-Tuner-Stick-DVB-T202/dp/B00527OCT6 https://www.amazon.co.uk/August-Freeview-Tuner-Stick-DVB-T20...

t0bia_s 4y ago

Yes, it's called a monitor.

Koshkin 4y ago
Not for long, a wave of “smart monitors” is already on its way.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  Where? I never seen any.

vie00001 4y ago

These are dumb TVs, also without a tuner. https://nogis.at/ https://nogis.at/

xfitm3 4y ago

Commercial panels are a great option, although, can be more expensive.

GWBullshit 4y ago

You and I suspect half the country. During the 90s I remember there was this big fuss when Gateway 2000 was introducing the first "smart/PC" TV to the market. Steve Jobs went on record as saying something along the lines of "Not only will it not work out, it shouldn't, because TV is the place where people head to at the end of the day to shut their brains off, not figure out even more ways to interact with tech." It made sense then and like Steve Jobs said, the Gateway smart/PC TV turned out to be a major flop at the time despite tech mags raving about its introduction. It would seem, unfortunately, that the approach manufacturers seem to have taken in modern times is one of "WRONG! We'll MAKE it work by shoving the approach down consumers' throats by making sure ALL TVs insist on spending over a half hour pushing buttons before people can sit down to watch something and relax."

paulcole 4y ago
> making sure ALL TVs insist on spending over a half hour pushing buttons before people can sit down to watch something and relax Is there any TV that’s even within an order of magnitude of this HN-tech-bro-I-own-my-device nightmare fantasy?
- GWBullshit 4y ago
  I believe so – there's this little-known, oldie-but-goodie brand called, "Torrents+External Drive®" in the West, and China has their own approach to "I can't even anymore" called "TikTok" ... perfect for just sitting down for a while and just watching shit instead of rolling out a project management spreadsheet to figure out what to watch and how to set things up so you can actually watch it.
  - paulcole 4y ago
    These AI text generators still have a ways to go before they can fool me!
    - GWBullshit 4y ago

usrn 4y ago

Computer monitors and projectors are still free of the nonsense.

toolchange 4y ago

zerof1l 4y ago

Yes, check out Swedx signage display.

chippytea 4y ago

When I received my TV I took it out of it's box removed 12 screws on the back and unplugged the wifi module. Now I just have it connected to my old laptop running linux with a bluetooth keyboard.

toolchange 4y ago

neilv 4y ago

I've just started shopping for a dumb TV/monitor that's 4K, HDR, maybe 35-55 inches, built-in good-enough speakers (like my 2009 Sony Bravia TV), power switch on&off based on HDMI from PS4/PS5 (for simplicity). It'd be nice to find genuine, well-informed reviews of dumb-TVs, and an up-to-date holistic look at the current options. (Most of what I've found so far are sketchy SEO sites, farming random Amazon Affiliate kickbacks with low-cost content.)

clouddrover 4y ago

The solution is to buy a large 4K monitor rather than a TV and then control the TV side of it yourself using MythTV or similar: https://www.mythtv.org/ https://www.mythtv.org/

5555624 4y ago

A few weeks ago, I bought a Sceptre (Komodo) 40-inch LED HDTV from Amazon. No smart features at all. I've been satisfied with it so far.

ChicagoDave 4y ago

I ignore the smart TV software entirely and stream everything through XBox apps.

MR4D 4y ago

You want to buy a “monitor”, not a TV. For instance there is this from LG [0] or this from Dell [1]. Just do a search for “large 4K monitor” and you’ll find more. [0] - https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-43-ultrafine-4k-uhd-monitor-with-usb-c-connectivity-black/6416347.p?skuId=6416347 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-43-ultrafine-4k-uhd-monitor-... [1] - https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-55-4k-conference-room-monitor-c5519q/apd/210-arev/monitors-monitor-accessories https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-55-4k-conference-r...

mcculley 4y ago
Is there a proper term or category for a monitor meant for high end installations that has no branding on it (e.g., as one would put into a display at a museum)? I refuse to buy something with a logo on the front of it.
- NonNefarious 4y ago
  I got a projector. No "smart" bullshit, branding issues, or other obnoxiousness.
  - naikrovek 4y ago
    congratulations. a projector won't work for everyone.
    - NonNefarious 4y ago
      You're welcome.
- semi-extrinsic 4y ago
  You might want to search for "Public Display" monitors. Although these usually have some smart-ish software used to run digital signage and stuff, they probably don't spy on you.
- GoodJokes 4y ago

kulesh 4y ago

https://pointerclicker.com/best-dumb-tv/ https://pointerclicker.com/best-dumb-tv/ Search “dumb tv” at hn, there’s a post with 600+ comments and tons of option

Hippocrates 4y ago

Just don’t connect it to your WiFi, and instead use an Apple TV. It’s far better than any built-in UI and I like the airplay integration as well.

donohoe 4y ago

I think the alternative question is: Is there a TV on the market that is easy to convert into a dumb TV? For example; I am happy to use just Apple TV. Is there a low-risk way to cripple my TCL so all it does is allow for input via Apple TV and not run other process?

GoodJokes 4y ago

pluc 4y ago

This is my answer every time this comes up: https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.html?sort=tbt.parent_pdtype&order=DESC https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.htm...

xanaxagoras 4y ago

Yes, it's called any TV you don't give internet access.

infotogivenm 4y ago

TVs today are an absolute hellscape. It’s crazy that my 15 year-old samsung is superior to today’s market in every way except resolution; no network connection/random updates/ads/screenshot hashes being send, a simple and instantaneous remote, and it doesn’t take a full minute to turn on or change the input. Nobody wants this garbage if they actually understand what is happening. The only “solution” I know is to never set up the network, and use appletv or similar set top box (which will still have unobtrusive content placement ads and likely tracking). A VLAN might work to support casting but is a administrative headache. I’d pay primo money for a dumb samsung that just ran their 2008 firmware. LG now has TVs with cameras built in, the stuff of nightmares. Idiocracy is real.

malikNF 4y ago

Bought a LG C1 last year, every-time I got the option to say "NO" to any agreement I said no. So far I haven't seen a single advert in the past year. The voice commands don't work. But who really wants to talk to their tv lol. I mainly use it for Plex and my Xbox, everything works really well for those purposes, so I appreciate LG at-least giving me the option to not use all of its "smart" features. --edit-- I am using this TV in B.C Canada.

jiveturkey 4y ago

I've owned multiple generations of LG, and without setting up Internet, it works just fine without any nagging.

vsskanth 4y ago

I happened to be in a in- construction facility being built for a F100 company and saw they were using Samsung "digital signage" TVs for the meeting rooms and lobbies. Fairly certain these TVs will never connect to the internet outside the company firewall so they must be designed for that. https://www.samsung.com/us/business/displays/ https://www.samsung.com/us/business/displays/

bo1024 4y ago

- Sceptre brand dumb TV (lower-end displays, available through Walmart) - "Monitor" as intended for computers (usually not that large, but this is changing) - "Commercial display" as intended for restaurants or hotels (often still have some smart features but more controllable; usually fairly expensive). Example https://www.lg.com/us/business/commercial-displays https://www.lg.com/us/business/commercial-displays - Projector

theseobosscom 4y ago

Buy smart tv an remove wifi module

matthewmcg 4y ago

If your budget permits, I recommend getting an LG OLED in your desired size and a good AV receiver. Connect your preferred streaming box (we like the AppleTV) to the receiver and use the streaming box remote to control everything. We have this setup and the LG has never been connected to the internet and its remote went back in the box after initial calibration and setup.

balfirevic 4y ago
What purpose does AV receiver have here? Can't you connect Apple TV directly to the TV?

bumblebritches5 4y ago

berlincount 4y ago

https://swedx.se https://swedx.se has Digital Sinage products without Smart features - or tuner. Add what you need only. Also comes with touch.

pabs3 4y ago

If Software Freedom Conservancy win their lawsuit against Vizio for GPL violations in their TVs, you will probably be able to install open source Linux distros with Kodi on any Vizio TV and soon afterwards lots of other smart TV vendors will be similar. There is nothing wrong with a smart TV, the problem is allowing the vendor operating system to remain on the device after you purchase it. https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html

bofh23 4y ago

I have a Samsung TV with “smart” features but only connect it to the Internet when using a streaming app. I still use cable for TV so I don’t use builtin apps often. Most of the time the TV is set to unconfigured WiFi so it can’t reach the Internet. I temporarily switch it to Ethernet when I need Internet connectivity.

carom 4y ago

Yes, Sceptre. I got it from the last hn thread. I have an Apple TV hooked up, it's great. The audio is mediocre so get a sound bar.

indigodaddy 4y ago

There is this RCA model RLDED5098-UHD https://www.amazon.com/RCA-RLED4945-UHD-49-Inch-Ultra-LED/dp/B073XSTSD8 https://www.amazon.com/RCA-RLED4945-UHD-49-Inch-Ultra-LED/dp...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

car 4y ago

Sceptre makes 'dumb' TV's. Also pretty affordable, but most seem out of stock. https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.html https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.htm...

Wistar 4y ago

Although it is only 31" and appears to be back-ordered just about everywhere, the Sony BVM-HX310 is a straight monitor with top-notch rendition. It is about $30k, however. For about $14k, the 32" Sony PVM-X3200 is perhaps more realistic.

sunpazed 4y ago

I recently purchased a Sony A90J after owning a “dumb” TV for over a decade. I was pleased to see that there was a “TV only” option that did not require me to use any of the “Smart” TV features. In fact, given I can control the TV through my Apple 4k device I never have to experience any of the televisions interface (apart from settings and inputs)

sunpazed 4y ago
I forgot to mention, there is no sounds, no jingle, no logo when operating the television — which is refreshing given that my LG and Samsung appliances are constantly jingling for my attention and engagement.

ornornor 4y ago

Panasonic OLEDs are it i think. I have a FZ800 (there are more recent updates of this model) and it’s perfect. No ads anywhere. Turns on (everything ready to use) within 5 seconds, picture is amazing because OLED, has no bezel so no branding. It is technically a smart tv because it has Netflix and other downloadable apps but it works perfectly fine without internet or using any of these apps: for the features that matter it behaves like a regular non smart tv without any obnoxious interface, just plain blue text on grey boxes.

rbanffy 4y ago

I wonder if any of the smart TVs out there can be easily rooted and turned into something like an RPi with an attached display. I’m always disappointed that the average LCD display post 2010-ish couldn’t be turned into an X terminal.

matty22 4y ago

Don't listen to these people saying to buy a monitor. Look at Sceptre TVs. They sell dumb panel TVs and they are great.

epolanski 4y ago

Just disconnect from wifi