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Feeling like a victim is a perfectly disastrous way to go through life
- mbrodersen 4y agoAccept that what has happened to you in the past can’t be changed. So instead focus 100% of your energy on what you can do now and in the future to improve your situation. You might not succeed. But it is still the best way to live your life.
- spacemanmatt 4y agoFeeling poor doesn't help you get rich either but neither does such knowledge help you get rich.
- tmn 4y agoOf course it can. If you can identify thoughts that are not aiding you, you can actively replace them with more constructive uses of your mind and will power.
- DarylZero 4y agoTo assess thoughts according to whether they "aid you," not whether they accurately reflect reality, strikes me as contemptible and weak.
- daedalus_f 4y agoThe world would be a very boring place if the only value of thought was its accuracy of reflection of reality.
- DarylZero 4y agoThat's not an accurate recounting of what I said, but I guess it's one that aids you!
- incrudible 4y agoJust because something accurately reflects reality does not mean you are obligated to occupy your mind with it, especially if there is nothing to be done about it.
- pessimizer 4y agoAlso destructive and amoral.
- markedle 4y agoTwo thoughts can reflect the same reality in different light.
- tmn 4y agoDoes it not reflect reality to recognize that time spent feeling sorry for yourself could be better utilized in any number of other pursuits? Why the hostility to this basic notion?
- DarylZero 4y agoIf feeling things actually took up time, you'd be making some sense, but as it is...
- spacemanmatt 4y agoWouldn't the constructive uses be more responsible for getting rich in this case? Removing a negative does not do the job by itself.
- tmn 4y agoI agree the removal is not sufficient, but it is helpful
- mjburgess 4y agoWealth is pareto distributed, by definition, almost no one can be rich and almost nothing you do can change that.
- QuarterReptile 4y agoFor a narrow enough definition of rich (10s of billions? You'd have to define "almost no one"). On a more useful level, reliable distributions of populations, no matter how reliable they tend to be, do not control individuals. There's a spot on the big fat end of the distribution for pareto nihilists.
- cy_hauser 4y ago> For a narrow enough definition of rich No matter where you lop the end of the Pareto distribution off the remaining curve still fits the same distribution. I though that was a defining characteristic of the principle. > ... reliable distributions ... do not control individuals. The people who've made it always talk to the people who haven't as if they can, by force of will, change their circumstances. That may be true if an individual has an untapped talent but in general luck will determine your outcome way more often than force of will. If it were possible for everyone to be rich there would be examples of that in society all across the world and all throughout history. I applaud your optimism though.
- fsociety 4y agoIt is okay to feel like a victim in circumstances, just so long as you do not let it rule your life or prevent you from doing things.
- AlbertCory 4y agoIf you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment. ― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
- bowsamic 4y agoI prefer the Buddha's simile of two arrows: the first arrow of the actual pain is not avoidable, but the second arrow is something we inflict upon ourselves in response to the pain. Marcus here makes it sound like we can totally avoid pain, but actually we can't, that first arrow will always hit and we shouldn't pretend like there isn't pain. The second arrow is what we have control over: our own personal response to the pain, seeing it as bad or good, wanting it to be gone.
- danaris 4y agoMaybe by "external", Marcus was being quite literal: that first arrow is inside your body when it causes you pain. Until it physically contacts you, it doesn't hurt you. (I'm mostly being facetious.)
- thunkshift1 4y agoThats right, advice from a goddamn emperor on how the downtrodden should not feel downtrodden
- daedalus_f 4y agoMarcus Aurelius writings that are collected together in the Meditations were never intended to be published, they were his thoughts and advice for himself.
- refurb 4y agoOk, does that mean the writing aren’t useful? No
- kodah 4y ago
- CJefferson 4y agoSometimes your problem is someone else's fault, and in such cases it is often useful to complain. Quietly feeling like a victim may indeed not be useful, but complaining effectively can get you a lot. Also, I unsurprisingly see no evidence in this article that the ideas described will actually lead to success.
- daenz 4y agoIf we're talking about in a local community (household, workplace, neighborhood), my opinion is that complaining signals to people that you are expecting someone else to solve it. It's a bad signal in a local community, because in a local community, everyone must be committed to solving most of the problems that occur, unless you have some kind of known reason for being unable to help (disabled, grieving, etc). Nobody likes complainers. Instead of complaining, state the problem, why you believe it is a problem, and what you're going to do about it unless people stop you with a better idea. This way, everyone knows what to expect your actions to be. They also have an opportunity to oppose your plan if they feel strongly enough to overcome inaction. And you're not complaining, because you've made it clear that you intend to solve it. Complaining can be an answer in a local community when the community is severely dysfunctional. For example, in the workplace, an overbearing manager who requires all decisions to go through them and doesn't allow any autonomy. In that case, complaining, leaving, or try to manipulate the manager are the dysfunctional alternatives.
- DarylZero 4y agoThe best way not to feel like a victim, is not to be a victim.
- dijit 4y agoWe are all victims to something. even the most wealthy, most successful and privileged have something in their lives that victimises them. It is exceedingly tempting to succumb to it.
- DarylZero 4y agoYeah if you slap a billionaire in the face, he may succumb to the temptation to feel like he was slapped in the face. I still say, the best way to avoid that feeling is not to be slapped in the face. Just my personal preference.
- christkv 4y agoThey might have an abusive partner, a sick child or any other thing that is not related to money.
- Taywee 4y agoThe most common way that we are all victims is the inevitable deaths of us and everybody and everything that we care about, and no billionaire is yet immune to that. Maybe one day we can simply not die, but until then, we are all victims of our own mortality, and plenty of people of all sorts feel plenty bad about that.
- hprotagonist 4y agoNo, when I go to sea, I go as a simple sailor, right before the mast, plumb down into the forecastle, aloft there to the royal mast-head. True, they rather order me about some, and make me jump from spar to spar, like a grasshopper in a May meadow. And at first, this sort of thing is unpleasant enough. It touches one’s sense of honor, particularly if you come of an old established family in the land, the Van Rensselaers, or Randolphs, or Hardicanutes. And more than all, if just previous to putting your hand into the tar-pot, you have been lording it as a country schoolmaster, making the tallest boys stand in awe of you. The transition is a keen one, I assure you, from a schoolmaster to a sailor, and requires a strong decoction of Seneca and the Stoics to enable you to grin and bear it. But even this wears off in time. What of it, if some old hunks of a sea-captain orders me to get a broom and sweep down the decks? What does that indignity amount to, weighed, I mean, in the scales of the New Testament? Do you think the archangel Gabriel thinks anything the less of me, because I promptly and respectfully obey that old hunks in that particular instance? Who ain’t a slave? Tell me that. Well, then, however the old sea-captains may order me about—however they may thump and punch me about, I have the satisfaction of knowing that it is all right; that everybody else is one way or other served in much the same way—either in a physical or metaphysical point of view, that is; and so the universal thump is passed round, and all hands should rub each other’s shoulder-blades, and be content. Moby Dick, “Loomings” (1851)
- olddustytrail 4y ago
- danaris 4y agoThe identification of the quote is appreciated. The condescending dismissal of a) (almost) all of American writing as being unworthy, and b) all Americans as being clueless drones parroting the same few works is deeply unappreciated. Yes, there are Americans who would look down their noses at you for not instantly recognizing a quote from Moby Dick, or, say, The Grapes of Wrath. They are representative of a particular category of literature snobs, not Americans in general, thank you very much.
- kelseyfrog 4y agoThis is really good advice - for externalizers. For internalizers however, it is perfectly terrible. Before deciding to go all in on advice like this, it's crucial to know where you fall along that spectrum[1]. Externalizers tend to place the locus of control outside of themselves which symbolically castrates them to fantasize about the objet petit a[2]. When it negatively impacts your life, you become the friend who likes to complain about everything but does nothing. Or worse, you're a person against the world who owes no one and impotently rages against everything. Internalizers do the opposite. They will place immense burdens upon themselves to unrealistically adapt and change when most people would confront the challenge directly. An example is the Missing Stair[3] metaphor. An internalizer works around everything, always pushing the problem inward and never forcing the world to change. Internalizers can be harder to identify as they silently suffer in an absence of self-kindness. What the article glosses over is knowing yourself[4] well enough to understand which tendencies you have. Maybe you tend to be an externalizer with your career and an internalizer with social relations or vice-versa or some other mixture entirely. It can be hard to be honest with yourself and ask, "Is this truly working for me?" But, those questions are hard precisely because they are the first step towards personal growth. 1. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-theater-the-brain/201408/the-nature-nurture-question-nature https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-theater-the-brai... 2. http://cahiers.kingston.ac.uk/concepts/castration.html http://cahiers.kingston.ac.uk/concepts/castration.html 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_stair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_stair 4. γνῶθι σεαυτόν - which everyone should practice before blindly taking advice
- amelius 4y agoWhat does modern science say about these theories? E.g. wasn't most of Freud's psychosexual work debunked?
- kelseyfrog 4y agoI framed it psychoanalytically, but locus of control was coined by Rotter so its probably grounded more in behaviorism and social learning traditions.
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- matrix12 4y agoOr worse, those that go around prescribing victimhood on others.
- CPLX 4y ago“Feeling like prey is a terrible way to go through life and you shouldn’t do it” - Charlie the shark, addressing a school of fish
- thimkerbell 4y agoIgnoring the Charlie part, if you do feel like that, is there a professional of some occupation that you can go to, to assess the situation? What occupation is that? (also, what could have made my phone decide that I live in Las Vegas?)
- civilized 4y agoI don't think this is true in general. If a rape victim feels like a victim, it's because they are and society should validate that. But if your kid dies and it's no one's fault in particular, the advice given here might help you (or might not).
- crmd 4y agoVictimhood is a crucial but temporary step in the healing process, where you acknowledge your pain and recognize that the trauma was not your fault. But if you get stuck there, you stop growing and healing. The next step is recognizing yourself as a survivor - that you did the work, you overcame adversity, and the trauma ultimately made you more mentally tough and resilient and better equipped for future life challenges. It’s only in this final step where a victim actually takes the power back. Source: me, after 15 years of difficult work with an exceptional therapist.
- refurb 4y agoBoth of those are outside of your control, so the similarities are more than your comment suggests.
- bilirubin 4y agoIt's a good sentiment, but I'll note it's probably also easier to not feel like a victim when your uncle owns a bank and your grandfather is a Federal judge... the article simultaneously says he "didn't have much money" and that he owned multiple rental income properties. Everyone has a struggle but I doubt Munger was actually ever truly "broke". These bootstrapping stories always have some hidden safety net that is de-emphasized.
- legacynl 4y agoYou guys are missing the obvious: Feeling like a victim is only bad if you're not actually a victim of anything. If you ARE a victim, then it's delusional not to feel as such. I know how everybody in the US loves hustle culture, but this story isn't applicable to everybody. The story is written and emphasized in such a way that this could happen nowadays to you and me but it can't. When this guy lost his home, he had a backup at the university club, presumably granted to him by powerful friends at the university; no worry about sleeping on the street, no police knocking on his car-window in the middle of the night, no worry about having to find a place to shower or wash your clothes. No getting fired for being unhygienic or sleeping on the street. > In those days, there was no health insurance, you just paid everything out of pocket Yes, but in the fricking 1950s. Before the absurdly inflated costs of current american healthcare. In those days you would pay an amount more closely related to the actual amount of doctor-hours and medical supplies you use. I really don't get people in these comments, it's as if they've never met poor people before; it's perfectly possible to make all the right choices that life offers you, but still end up in a bad state. I'm sure there are some situations where aspiring entrepreneurs need a kick in their butt, but in other situations putting the blame on the person's 'mentality' only distracts from dealing with the real issues.
- goodpoint 4y ago> If you ARE a victim, then it's delusional not to feel as such. Spot on. Additionally, modern neurology has proven that people experiencing stress and anxiety for years risk loss of cognitive abilities and long-term emotional harm. This is not something that you can just shake away with some "positive affirmations" and walk in a park. This kind of narrative blames people who are facing learned helplessness. Even if you are not a victim - but you are unhappy for any other reason it's crucial to recognize and address it. Recognizing it is step one in order to overcome it. Unfortunately some cultures tolerated decades of hustle culture / rugged individualism to the point of becoming unable to admit difficulties. This is psychology 101 and it's really telling that HN downvotes you and me instead.
- s1artibartfast 4y agoThe main problem is when people who are legitimately a victim in one situation or one aspect of their life loose perspective and let this dominate their self identity and world view. The only solution to irrational learned helplessness is to reframe your mental model. It can be difficult to get back to a healthy mental state, and some people need help. That said, feeling a helpless victim is a terrible way to go through life, and usually far worse than the original harm.
- zackmorris 4y agoSince life is suffering (and other things), I don't really internalize quips like these anymore. We lose everyone and everything around us before we die. That realization is perhaps the foundation of becoming an adult. Which is why I avoid becoming one whenever possible. There's liberation in realizing that this is all a game. The shared reality we take as fact, rooted in science, is not actually how any of this works. We're all dreaming this in the perpetual now. Time is an illusion. The past is a wake behind a boat we're riding in, not the cause of our present reality. The future is a sea of endless possibility we manifest through conscious intuition, not something we build manually. Once I learned to meditate and tune in to the vibration of the reality I want to exist in, and tune out the rest, things got better. Also stepping back from 3D to 4D/5D helped me see the suffering in others and their projection of that onto me. As above, so below. As my reality shifts, the universe goes to great lengths to adjust the context, trading one presence for another, and that chaos magic process can be exhilarating but also frightening. Since science may never be able to explain source consciousness or how its force constructs reality, we're all divine by definition. I think that's what they mean by stepping into our power and changing the world around us. With great power comes great responsibility. Which again, is why I avoid using it now whenever possible. Certain things seem to nurture spiritual growth: negative reinforcement, loss, surrender, service, faith, hope and love. And many more. Anyone can rise above at any time, but we're usually too busy saying "nah, maybe some other time." https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/the-4-types-of-intuition-and-how-to-tap-into-each https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/the-4-types-of-intuit... https://greatmystery.org/perspectives-four-fold-way/ https://greatmystery.org/perspectives-four-fold-way/
- bpiche 4y agoSpiral out
- JJMcJ 4y agoThe great psychologist Eric Berne distinguished between a victim, someone who has a misfortune befall them, and a Victim, someone who's life position is to feel like a victim. Unfortunately if one is a victim too often, too many bad things happen, it's natural to become a Victim and live your life that way.
- stanrivers 4y agoI like that distinction - some people are victimized, but others are oriented towards life as if they were forever a victim - the latter is what is dangerous
- JJMcJ 4y agoBerne was a really innovative and perceptive thinker, who made an effort to keep his writing accessible to non-specialists. Both Games People Play and What Do You Say After You Say Hello, where the idea of life scripts is explained.
- screeconc 4y agoThis is all really complicated, and telling the difference between those things is the hard part, even when you think you might know the answer. This has been on my mind a lot because of some circumstances I found myself in that ended up being disastrous. When I complained to a good friend, he would often characterize me as just being too negative or something. For years what I would do is the stoic thing, sort of tell myself I was just making too big of a deal about it, and so forth and so on. At some point though I realized my problem was the opposite, that I wasn't making a big enough deal about it, I wasn't taking enough action, and by the time I understood what was going on, it was basically too late. In my case, I think the problem was that I didn't know how bad things really were, because I didn't have any frame of reference for anything else. I didn't know how it should be, so I didn't understand how far things were off. And my friends projected, assumed that where I was, things were like where they were at, that if I complained about Serious Problem X, I really meant Less Serious Problem Y, even though I actually meant Serious Problem X. When this goes on long enough, and no one really knows what's going on -- you can't help yourself because you don't recognize what's happening, and no one around you is helping for whatever reason -- it can look like you're wallowing in victimhood when it's really just that no one is really identifying the actual source of the problem. There might not be any real victims involved, or maybe everyone is a victim. It doesn't matter. At the risk of sounding pedantic, this is the essence of classical Western tragedy: no one is really a victim, they're just screwed in ways no one forsees.
- rougka 4y agoIt’s actually extremely useful to go through life feeling like a victim. There is such an intense social pressure to succeed in something, you can just attribute any failure to the dice being loaded and reduce that pressure
- ethnologica 4y agoThis is an oversimplification of a complex topic: People can be victims of situations since certain life events are disturbing and at the same time genes determine to a certain degree how you take life. Nonsense article about „positive“ thinking.
- spoonjim 4y agoI can tell you couldn’t overcome “victim mentality” to achieve in spite of the blows that life dealt him: Teddy Munger. This one-size-fits-all prescription is nonsense.
- tonguez 4y ago[flagged]
- dang 4y agoPlease don't break the site guidelines like this. Perhaps you don't owe nonagenarian billionaires better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you've unfortunately been posting tons of unsubstantive and flamebait comments. If you keep doing that, we're going to have to ban you, because it's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules? The idea is a forum with curious, thoughtful conversation on topics that people (including you!) find intellectually interesting.
- Krisjohn 4y agoThis is bad advice, presented poorly. A collection of quotes with a vague theme and some commentary does not an article make.
- thimkerbell 4y agoAre there still University Club living quarters, even dreadful ones?