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Millions of electric cars are coming. What happens to all the dead batteries?
- 0des 4y agoOur kids need something to save the world over in 40 years. This is the genesis of that. But hey at least we stopped polluting our skies, even if at the cost of our soil and water.
- milkytron 4y ago> Our kids need something to save the world over in 40 years. This is the genesis of that. I doubt it. I don't think electric vehicles will help as much as we think. I think true long term economic and ecologic solutions require less dependence on cars and their infrastructure.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y agoWFH, buy less, metaverse. Why are we transporting our bodies around so much?
- _carbyau_ 4y agoI have no issue with transporting our bodies around. The world is out there to be enjoyed in glorious noScreen resolution and at maximum framerate you can take in. Let alone using all the senses of the human body. But why do we mostly use vehicles so tall, wide, long and 20x our body weight? When the large % of use cases are to carry 1 or 2 people at 60 or less?! It could be fulfilled with a fancy go kart, like a Smart Car. And I would argue for even smaller/lighter. There are many historical reasons for this but we need something to influence purchasing habits towards smaller cars.
- BenjiWiebe 4y agoCrash safety is one reason. I like the idea of commuting on an electric bike, except that if a deer jumps in front of me I'm probably dead. In my car, I have an extremely good chance of survival if I hit something or lose control. Small light cars would fall somewhere between an average car and a motorbike, but still going to be less safe for the occupants than a larger vehicle.
- _carbyau_ 4y agoTo survive a deer could be engineered for. The bigger issue I see is people wanting to one up in size against other humans in their cars. Everything is a damn "SUV" now despite it not being for Sports or Utility. What they are is taller and heavier which gives people reassurance. But once people see other vehicles are taller and heavier, well now they want something to match to protect their family in the event of a crash. I don't know how to stop this cycle.
- Traubenfuchs 4y agoLaws mandating the builders of batteries to be responsible for their disposal, either via tax or by recycling/disposing them themselves are a necessity. Ultimately the users (car buyers) must shoulder the costs.
- zdragnar 4y agoThis is another way of saying screw poor people
- Traubenfuchs 4y agoI am not poor but don’t ever plan to own a car and I should not pay for the battery disposal of those who own electric cars.
- caymanjim 4y agoWhy limit it to batteries? Why not mandate that literally everything produced include up-front disposal/re-use taxes? Manufacturers have been externalizing the true cost of goods since prehistoric times. I don't think it'll happen, nor am I even sure it's a good idea, but there's nothing special about this one product.
- Mountain_Skies 4y agoGood in theory but companies go out of business all the time, leaving no one responsible for the disposal. It could be better to have a disposal fee added to the purchase price and put into a fund that then is used for disposal costs. The unfortunate problem is that anytime there's a pool of money like that just sitting around, someone is going to find a way to access it for other purposes, often political. So another idea that's theoretically good but suffers from being implemented by humans that often have alternate agendas.
- MBCook 4y agoYou could mandate it to the company that sells the final product. Ford/GM/VW show no signs of disappearing any time soon, even if the individual part supplier they purchase from might.
- alexfromapex 4y agoThere needs to be a chemical process to break down the harsh chemicals into something environmentally friendly. Ideally, something that uses solar power or other highly available energy sources.
- xedeon 4y agohttps://www.redwoodmaterials.com/recyclewithus https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/recyclewithus
- dahfizz 4y agoWhy? It makes more sense to remanufacture them into new batteries. This means less raw materials that need to be mined from the earth.
- alexfromapex 4y agoBecause theoretically recycling all of them is a great idea but in the real world there will be lots of trash that will destroy the environment. Take masks for example, they now litter the entire world when all someone has to do is throw them away.
- dahfizz 4y agoA $10k+ EV battery pack is not the same as a disposable piece of fabric. Even regular car batteries have a robust recycling stream, mostly due to the deposit you get back when you return your old one.
- samatman 4y agoWhen? A lot of people are getting 10 years out of a pack down to about 80% capacity. With careful management that same pack can run at around 80 percent for.. a long time. Cells start becoming dangerous and getting cut out of the circuitry, a 60% lithium battery isn't really a thing, they come in full, worn out, and dead. 20 years maybe? So after 30 years we recycle them. Edit to add: a use pattern like this is ideal from the perspective of recycling. When you're taking a hundred tons of battery out of commission at once, there's incentive to be thorough.
- hedora 4y agoI read lithium ion capacity follows an exponential decay curve. Each subsequent loss of 5% takes twice as long, or something. My EV has an 8 year battery warranty, and warranty claims on the ones sold 8 years ago were never a common thing (to the point that no one knows what a replacement battery would cost). I'm guessing the rest of the car will fall apart around the battery pack, which will then be repurposed for grid storage or something.
- jitendrac 4y agoI think the ultimate solution would be a policy for fair and slightly premium return value for dead battery from manufacturer upon battery exchange or sale. It will make companies recycle their own batteries, get customer financial reason to recycle it and also a steady second supply of rare/expensive raw materials for producing new batteries which will reduce pressure on existing resources.
- mcronce 4y agoThis seems to have worked pretty well with the "core return" system on used 12V batteries for ICE vehicles. Even with a pretty small (usually $15-20 in my experience) financial incentive, people do tend to bring them in.
- kube-system 4y agoIIRC Toyota does with their hybrid batteries. It makes sense anyway, there’s a lot of material of value even in a dead pack.
- sudden_dystopia 4y agoIf we can’t figure out a way to feasibly recycle them, we should make a huge catapult that can fling them into deep space towards a black hole. Only half joking.
- Bromeo 4y agoCurrently, launching one kg of payload into orbit with SpaceX's Falcon 9 costs around 2400$/kg. Even after a 10x reduction, this will not be a economical viable for garbage/battery disposal. Note however that Musk had apparently said he's aiming for 20$/kg - take that as you wish. Even then, I'm not sure whether it's economically feasible. In terms of slingshot or catapult type constructions, I recall that the main hurdle is that the payload usually doesn't survive the huge forces applied during the acceleration phase and rips apart. You have to accelerate the payload to about 40'000km/h for it to escape Earth's orbit.
- aitchnyu 4y agoIf you are mad and find yourself yelling that you want someone launched into the Sun, take a moment, calm yourself, remember that it takes a lot less Delta v to launch them out of the solar system instead. You can be mad, but that's no excuse to be inefficient with propellant. - Matthew Buckley
- jmclnx 4y agoBased upon what went on with Auto Tires in the US 30+ years ago, they will build up in many people's yards (especially in low populated areas) for decades until it becomes a kind of minor super-fund site. Unless disposing of batteries can seem "free" and very easy, I expect that to happen. Somewhat similar to used auto oil. I suspect in various places used oil is either burned for heat or dumped in an undeveloped area.
- lambdasquirrel 4y agoIt might be a bit overblown. People will definitely replace their cell-phone batteries by the time they get down to 50-60%. Car batteries would probably be not so great by the time you're down to 75%. Realistic real world mileage on a typical 220 mile battery, at 75% capacity, is probably more like 110 miles. The catch is that for grid storage, capacity along these lines doesn't matter to the same extent, as much as cost and retention. As long as we have cheap wind and solar, and they are able to manage fire risk, those batteries would just be sitting around.
- fartcannon 4y agoAs long as we don't let the Apple way overtake cars. I'm afraid that I think it's already happening.
- mlindner 4y agoTires aren't an expensive material and they don't melt, they burn, almost impossible to easily recycle.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y agoThey are routinely recycled by shredding them and mixing the crumbs into products that don't need a uniform composition.
- mlindner 4y agoI'd call that reused rather than recycled personally. If it can't be used a feed material to produce the thing that it itself is made of, then it hasn't really been recycled.
- endisneigh 4y agoI wish PHEV were more popular. I really don't need a car with 300 mile+ range. Just like 50 miles and if I need to rarely go more I'd rather just use gas. Something like PodBike except much cheaper would also be appreciated.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mrtnmcc 4y agoThis is a hard one to trade off, as the engine does need maintenance even if it isn't used and still limits the lifespan of the PHEV. Even for commuting, having an oversized battery extends lifespan because of the reduced charge cycle per cell (and battery will generally last much longer than any engine). I do like the range boost of the engine though. Especially when exploring new areas and not having a consistent route and supercharge routine. Although going back to the pump always reminds me why pure electric is the future. (I've had both a Tesla and a Volt).
- endisneigh 4y agoMy issue is that if you are relying solely on battery and your lifestyle and commute goes around it, a few things happen: 1. Say your 300 mile battery loses 30% in 5-10 years. So now you're down to about 200. In the winter in some areas you might lose another 30 to 50%. So now you're conservatively down to 100 miles. This still can be enough, but it's low enough where it's a hinderance. 2. The equivalent smaller battery as you've stated would drain faster, but it would also be substantially cheaper to replace to begin with. As a result the cost of the battery relative to the car is cheaper and the economics if buying a new battery makes more sense. Not to mention that only Tesla's have the super charger network, so it makes even less sense for non-Tesla EV owners. A battery range longer than the average trip distance * 2 is unnecessary. Ideally you'd have "just enough" + infrastructure to charge at said locations + gas to go further if necessary.
- josephcsible 4y ago
- ldaw 4y agoIt's my opinion that we need regulation around this. Car manufacturers should be required to offer buy-back programs for their batteries, and then properly dispose of them, ideally with as much recycling as possible. I also believe manufacturers should be required to offer replacement batteries for sale for a certain number of years. It's mind-boggling that some companies have stopped selling replacement battery packs within 5 years of selling that vehicle.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y agoAn industry-standard specification is helpful (like with most replaceable batteries). Doesn't seem like folks are in a hurry for that, and then, there's the old "A camel is a horse that was designed by committee" joke...
- CodeWriter23 4y agoFrom the computer world: A simple standard like USB they said. Got us to USB-C. I think it might be too early in the game to standardize the interface let alone the volumetric characteristics of car batteries. Do we require all battery connectors to be able to carry 1600 amps just to support Plaid?
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y agoVery good point. I'm starting to see a lot of non-Tesla EVs around. I saw my first F-150 Lightning, the other day, as well as a Hyundai Ioniq Electric, yesterday. But I am seeing a lot of Teslas. Part of it might be, because I live in a relatively affluent area.
- theteapot 4y agoMaybe just a certification to make sure the thing is easily recyclable.
- _carbyau_ 4y agoDepends where you put the intervention. While USB has issues, the EU basically standardising mobile phone chargers was brilliant. The bureaucrats shouldn't define a technical spec. They should define a social requirement and let the techs solve it best they can.
- throwaway5959 4y ago
- zeeZ 4y agohttps://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/reducing-loss-of-resources-from/reducing-loss-of-resources-from https://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/reducing-loss-of-reso... https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Waste_statistics_-_recycling_of_batteries_and_accumulators&stable=0 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
- Glyptodon 4y agohttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2542435121004335 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S25424...
- colechristensen 4y ago> It's often cheaper for batterymakers to buy freshly mined metals than to use recycled materials With the price of lithium is this currently a problem?
- nmehner 4y agoFor the U.S.: https://cleantechnica.com/2022/05/20/li-cycles-battery-recycling-plant-in-arizona-now-open/ https://cleantechnica.com/2022/05/20/li-cycles-battery-recyc... "The battery recycling plant can process the equivalent of batteries required for around 20,000 EVs per annum." For Europe: https://cleantechnica.com/2022/05/17/hydrovolt-the-largest-battery-recycling-facility-in-europe-begins-operations/ https://cleantechnica.com/2022/05/17/hydrovolt-the-largest-b... "the Hydrovolt factory is now in commercial operation and expects to recycle 12,000 tons of depleted batteries a year initially, rising to 70,000 tons by 2025 and 300,000 tons by 2030. 12,000 tons is enough to handle all depleted batteries from electric vehicles on the road in Norway today." Recycling currently does not happen on a larger scale, because most batteries are not EOL, not because is does not work.
- jazzyjackson 4y agoi just fear it will be the same story as plastics: the industry tells us consumption is not a problem because the material is recyclable, but there is actually no economic incentive to recycle, so it is landfilled instead.
- mlindner 4y agoExcept batteries are incredibly valuable to recycle as the batteries are a high grade ore. Companies like Redwood Materials have publicly said they are already profitable (cash flow positive) if you remove their R&D and money they're using to expand to meet demand.
- bittercynic 4y agoThat happens with plastic because that particular material is usually not economical to recycle (at least as long as the industry is able to externalize some important costs.) I don't think you can say the same for batteries. There is valuable and scarce material contained in batteries, and it seems likely that someone will find a way to make it happen.
- nmehner 4y agoAt least in the EU/UK it is required by law to recycle 95% of a car: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/95207/car-recycling-how-much-of-your-old-car-is-reused https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/95207/car-recycling-h... A problem with plastics is that it is hard to create high quality plastics from recycled materials. And there is only a limited demand for park benches made from low quality recycled plastics. This is different with metals where you can "just" melt everything and separate the metals. This is probably less expensive than mining the materials in the first place where the ore contains a much lower share of the metals. Also a car contains a few hundred kilograms of recyclable materials and there is a very limited number of different models. So there is an economic incentive.
- rnk 4y agohttps://www.redwoodmaterials.com/recyclewithus https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/recyclewithus. We can already recycle 95% of the metals in batteries, using 5% of the energy it would take to go from raw materials to battery ready components. It's a non problem. Tesla is also recycling batteries, but their cars are only 10 years old and so they don't get many back (because the batteries are working pretty well after 10 years). Don't compare the terrible lifespan of leaf batteries with cars with decent battery management technology.
- coryrc 4y agoMy nine-year-old Leaf's battery is also fine :)
- jjtheblunt 4y agodo you live somewhere never very hot?
- madengr 4y agoI have 83% capacity on my Leaf at 7 years and 75k miles. I live in Kansas City where it typically ranges from 0F to 100F over the year.
- Retric 4y agoAverage monthly high temperature never goes above 90f in Kansas so while it gets a few extreme days a year it really doesn’t get hot for any significant period. https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/usa/kansas-city/climate https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/usa/kansas-city/climate The average monthly high temperatures in Las Vegas by comparison are 104f in July, 103f in Aug, and 100f in June. https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/usa/las-vegas/climate https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/usa/las-vegas/climate Critically for battery degradation high temperatures when in actual use get well above ambient temperature. So, if you avoid driving in the heat of the day things can look better than local climate suggests.
- suture 4y agoAnother thing not talked about with regard to electric vehicles is the increased weight they have and the accompanying damage to the roads due to that increased weight. In my city the roads are already crappy and having large numbers of electric vehicles will make those roads much worse. Edit: See the chart on the following website if you discount the effect of increased weight from electric vehicles. https://streets.mn/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-day-vehicle-weight-vs-road-damage-levels/ https://streets.mn/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-day-vehicle-weigh...
- kolinko 4y agoThe road damage is 95% heavy traffic, if I'm not mistaken - one 18-wheeler is equivalent to literally 10000 cars. Whether personal vehicles are 2x as heavy, or 50% lighter, it will not impact your neighborhood roads significantly.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- suture 4y agoIt appears from the following website that you are wrong to discount the effects of increasing the weight of the vehicle a few hundred pounds. I stand by my original assertion. https://streets.mn/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-day-vehicle-weight-vs-road-damage-levels/ https://streets.mn/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-day-vehicle-weigh...
- ben-schaaf 4y agoNeighbourhood roads don't see 18-wheelers. Additionally a 2x increase in weight results in a ~20x increase in damage [0]. That's certainly not negligible and will eventually have to be factored into car taxes. The same is true for heavy trucks though: subsidies on road damage/maintenance disincentivises more efficient modes like rail. [0] https://streets.mn/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-day-vehicle-weight-vs-road-damage-levels/ https://streets.mn/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-day-vehicle-weigh...
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- bmitc 4y agoWhat I am curious about is how the emissions related to recycling batteries will negate the lifetime emission offsets of electric cars versus combustion engine cars. I am not entirely convinced EV cars will have a watershed effect on emissions as much as people think they will. I worry that, although they're likely to reduce emissions over lifetime ownership and use, they are a big distraction in terms of how much people are presumably betting on them saving us from climate change.
- KleerKut 4y agoThe lack of ideas working towards reducing and reusing before recycling is deeply disturbing to me. My understanding is that many people and companies will consider a battery dead at a point where it still has a great deal of life left for other uses. There are plenty of places selling gently used, or even completely unused batteries at deep discount, which is great for solar and smaller vehicles like bikes. The weight isn't much of a concern for stationary solar beyond initial shipping, and a few extra pounds on a bike to get the same range for much cheaper than new has served me well. I would love to see shops pop up reusing batteries for bikes, golf carts, and more. I'm happy to see many gas powered bikes and golf carts in my area being replaced with electric. Calling for legislation to recycle batteries without regard to the order of the 3 R's seems quite wasteful and likely to inhibit innovation with small scale solar and smaller electric transportation. Reduce, reuse, then recycle seems like a better idea than skipping the first two steps.
- stubish 4y agoI keep seeing these articles, and I can't help thinking it is a solution looking for a problem and being popularized by various interests to make EVs look less green. People and companies want to use these old batteries. Why pay for a brand new battery to stick in a shed when you can use a much cheaper 10 year old car battery for the same purpose? Or my ride on lawn mower, which doesn't need a 250km range. But it isn't much cheaper, because you can't actually buy 10 year old car batteries. They are scarce. Where are these piles of millions of batteries, like the piles of millions of tires? Sure, we will want to recycle them eventually, but in a non-wasteful world that will be in about 20 years time. Do the research, put together your recycling business plans, and be ready when there is actually a market. Pleading for funding to recycle perfectly useful batteries people want to buy is just wrong.
- jaclaz 4y agoThere was a thread/article some time ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29110314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29110314 about a wired article according to which some car manufacturers (at the moment) are just storing them (in Oklahoma City).
- jmrm 4y agoWe need a huge infrastructure of reusing and recycling batteries, specially when we won't have enough materials to make all the cars the people demands in a few years. Isn't just to make the manufacturing process more ecological, is also the scarcity of the finite world we live in. Carlos Tavares, president of the Stellantis automotive group: “We will have around 2025 or 2026 a short supply of batteries, and if there is no short supply of batteries then there will be a significant dependence of the western world vis-à-vis Asia.” Source: https://www.ft.com/content/e64179ec-f84c-40ff-9e8a-f85bd5994692 https://www.ft.com/content/e64179ec-f84c-40ff-9e8a-f85bd5994...
- lvl102 4y agoWe really need regulations to standardize batteries and charge stations in the US. Federal govt really dropped the ball here and their failure to do so is hampering adoption. And I don’t know how the US govt gave away billions without these specific conditions.
- MBCook 4y agoEveryone* has standardized on CCS. The only hold outs using ChaDEmo (the Leaf) has given up. It took to long but we’re there. At this point I think China may be the only country with its own standard. US, EU, and I believe the rest of Asia are on the CCS train. *The holdout, of course, is Tesla. They had good reason at the time (CCS didn’t exist), and their connector is better, but here we are. They’ve gone CCS in Europe I believe due to regulations. If they did so here to it would all be solved. They have to add CCS anyway to Superchargers to open their network as Elon has promised.
- mlindner 4y agoYou seem to be confused. CCS is not a shared standard between the US and EU. They're completely different and incompatible from each other between the US and EU. The US version is objectively worse than the EU version and significantly worse than Tesla's standard.
- MBCook 4y agoI have never heard that American CCS is different from European CCS. Interesting. But is that a big problem? It’s not exactly common to move a car between America and Europe/Asia. If you had to I’d imagine the dealer could swap the plugs on the car.
- lvl102 4y agoYou’re right we do have a standard but that’s not the same as having regulations in place to enforce those standards. Normally, I wouldn’t mind a free market approach but with electric cars, we want to accelerate adoption as much as we can. We don’t have the luxury of waiting 10-20 years for Tesla to finally come to senses.
- jjtheblunt 4y ago"Electric cars" are sometimes powered by hydrogen fuel cells. https://www.toyota.com/mirai/2022/ https://www.toyota.com/mirai/2022/ Maybe this also helps lower quantities of "dead batteries", if hydrogen filling stations become prevalent?
- danans 4y ago> Does that partially address the "dead batteries", Sort of, but they still have batteries (though less). And now you have a hydrogen fuel cell disposal problem, and it's not clear to me whether that is better or worse, and if it's better, whether it is worth the greater complexity and inherent inefficiency of H2 production, whether it is grey H2 or green H2 > if hydrogen filling stations become prevalent? That's a big if considering that we already have an electric vehicle charging infrastructure and that can charge your vehicle in a zero carbon way in many places.
- _hypx 4y agoA hydrogen fuel cell is 100% recyclable. It is basically analogous to a catalytic converter.
- danans 4y agoBatteries are also recyclable, and also have extended use cases after their use in cars and before they are recycled (mostly as distributed stationary grid storage).
- _hypx 4y agoNot really. Li-ion batteries are very poorly recyclable. Not to mention it is rarely done right now.
- danans 4y ago> Li-ion batteries are very poorly recyclable. 95% recyclable [1]. And there are 3 separate companies I know of working on it, Li-Cycle, Northvolt, and Redwood Materials. That article lists many more. 1. https://spectrum.ieee.org/amp/lithiumion-battery-recycling-finally-takes-off-in-north-america-and-europe-2652903758 https://spectrum.ieee.org/amp/lithiumion-battery-recycling-f...
- goodpoint 4y agoCars culture is not sustainable anyways. We need a massive shift towards public transportation.
- black_13 4y ago
- B1FF_PSUVM 4y agoWhat dead batteries? A battery at 50% can be bad for a car, but perfectly useful for solar panel balancing, like Tesla sold in Australia. Sell them at a discount, pile them up in the desert, where weight and volume don't matter. Sheesh.
- savant_penguin 4y agoOne thing I wonder is what happens to the value is the car when most of its cost come from the batteries and they die
- throwaway787544 4y ago> One, Thompson says, is who should bear primary responsibility for making recycling happen. "Is it my responsibility because I bought [an EV] or is it the manufacturer's responsibility because they made it and they're selling it?" Doesn't matter. If it's your responsibility, you pay. If it's the automaker's responsibility, the automaker pays, and then carries that cost forward into the price of the cars, so you pay. Whose primary responsibility for making it happen? I mean, only the manufacturers can make it happen [redesigning batteries to be easily recyclable], but they won't, so someone has to make them, but customers won't, so the government will have to. This is one of those things the government is for, like banning trans fats and ozone-depleting refrigerant. Making all batteries more recyclable should be top of the list for this decade.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y agoDon’t skip the most likely option. It’s cheaper to make new batteries than to create a return program and recycle the lithium. So, no one pays (money) and the batteries go to the landfill. It’s not necessarily about battery design. It’s that the cells need to be opened, the foil and layers removed and scrapped for lithium. It’s just always going to be a pain to rework than create new.
- fosk 4y agoApple has a program that allows you to buy a new iPhone model and get some money back if you actually give them the old phone that you are replacing. I was always under the assumption that apple actually recycles them because they want them in good condition, but maybe not? I also wonder if this is a program whose cost is factored in the final price of every iPhone (and therefore a cost that is distributed across the entire customer base), regardless if they are returning their old phones or not.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y agoWhen you send that phone back, it’s going to get cleaned up and sold in Asia or Latin America. I was at an open air mall in Borneo (Kutching) and saw all manner of new/used iPhones in official-ish Apple packaging.
- mise_en_place 4y agoMillions will sit on lots, that’s for sure. Who is buying electric cars right now?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- notatoad 4y agolol what? nothing is sitting on lots right now. Mustang EV orders are closed until next year because ford can't keep up with demand. F-150 lightning is as much as a 3-year wait. Porsche Taycan is 6-18 months. If you want a Tesla the quickest you can get one is a month: https://www.tomsguide.com/reference/tesla-wait-times-how-long-it-takes-to-get-every-tesla-model https://www.tomsguide.com/reference/tesla-wait-times-how-lon...
- dsadsadsaddsa 4y ago"There's nothing wrong with the tech, we just need more adoption" sounds suspiciously like cryptocurrency.
- mcbishop 4y agoOnce an EV battery's remaining capacity is too low to be practical (eg 30% of original), it can be removed (replaced) and used as an on-site / stationary battery. ...Its remaining capacity would likely still be a lot higher than a new battery intended for stationary residential use.
- chriscappuccio 4y agoChina handles this problem by moving batteries from EV use to storage use. Many batteries can still function well at low rates of charge and discharge which is common in solar and grid storage. See Yinlong LTO cells, they are apparently re-wrapped EV bus cells. LiFePO4 cells are also great for storage, although they may not be quite as good used. See guys like www.batteryhookup.com who are recovering batteries in the US