16 ms·

Computer work lying down comfortably with a home-made stand over the bed

218 points by strengol 4y ago

neilv 4y ago
If I heard correctly in the 1990s, one of the MIT wearable computing people wrote their dissertation while laying down, using their glasses-mounted head-up display and chording keyboard. (It sounded all the more luxurious in a time when few people had laptops, and the pickings for desktop machines were often slim, and shared.)
narrator 4y ago
If you have a lot of money to spare, you could always get one of these bad boys which are designed to allow one to work flat on ones back including a specially designed magnetic mouse: http://www.altwork.com http://www.altwork.com
- ishtanbul 4y ago
  I have an altwork, its awesome. I wrote a brief review https://www.reddit.com/r/StandingDesk/comments/nd4o9t/altwork_signature_setup_photos/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://www.reddit.com/r/StandingDesk/comments/nd4o9t/altwor...
- tenuousemphasis 4y ago
  There's a less expensive solution with a more stable monitor mount. I have one on order that should be shipping soon. https://levus.co/ https://levus.co/
  - r0b05 4y ago
    Approaching Wall-E and Idiocracy levels but this looks incredibly comfortable!
- clcaev 4y ago
  I'm very happy with an http://ergoquest.com http://ergoquest.com
erfgh 4y ago
My eyes dry up when looking upwards...
paulryanrogers 4y ago
That mouse arrangement looks very uncomfortable
- mrmuagi 4y ago
  I think so too, a split keyboard on either side of hips would seem better.
  - bryanlarsen 4y ago
    That's what he appears to be using in one of the linked articles.
  - Bud 4y ago
    Split keyboard doesn't solve the mouse issue. Doesn't even address it. But a trackpad does.
lswank 4y ago
Extended periods of time in a supine position can lead to a number of health problems including venous stasis, pressure ulcers, and respiratory difficulties. The position of the keyboard and screen can put strain on the neck and shoulders. And let's not get started about sleep problems that are just waiting if you do this. Even hospitals require patients to be up and moving around, even if they are bedridden. In addition to the issues above, t helps the patient to stay mentally alert and to avoid depression and it helps the patient to build up their strength so that they can eventually be discharged from the hospital. If a patient is unable to move around, say hello to our little friend heparin, prevent venous stasis. If doctors feel this strongly about getting up and moving, even when you can barely do so, imagine how they feel about people who choose to do this for any other reason.
1MachineElf 4y ago
As someone with a messed up T10 vertebrae this is the kind of setup I often dream about.
jihadjihad 4y ago
I can feel my wrists getting cold and going numb just from looking at that photo...
jaqalopes 4y ago
While I agree with other commenters here that this setup probably isn't a good idea for most people, I want to go out on a limb and say it seems to me the author may have good reason to have undertaken such a project (he specifically mentions that this article is NOT about his motivations). Specifically, just profiling based on the apparent age of the gentleman in the photos, I would not be surprised if this reason was some sort of injury, arthritis, or similar source of pain caused by ordinary sitting-at-a-desk posture. All that is to say, good for him for making a thing that seems to work for his needs, and shame on people jumping to poo-poo this because it's not solving a problem they personally have.
- syntheweave 4y ago
  I've tried all the setups at this point, including the supine one. It has plenty to recommend it in a limited, mostly consumptive role; many people sleep a whole eight hours in roughly that position. It does tend to get in the way of typing although a fully split keyboard can address that. But my everyday work is now done at a floor table. This posture brings a different level of activation energy, and it lets me keep moving around which is a clear advantage over most. It can present some of the same stresses as chair seating but it has more opportunities to relax. And unlike the standing or treadmill desks it easily works on a budget too - tape up a cardboard box and weigh it down and you have a temporary desk setup that will support most equipment. For a better surface with a finish and leg room, Ikea provides options, or you can get more specialized folding floor desks with angle adjustments and drawers off of Amazon.
  - bigDinosaur 4y ago
    Personally I realised that trying to economise too much on desks is actually kinda crazy when you work out how much time one spends using the desk (like a mattress), so I went and bought a standing desk which is definitely easier than stacking cardboard boxes etc. Still, whatever works for you.
  - newtwilly 4y ago
    Do you sit on a cushion or no?
tengbretson 4y ago
For awhile now I've been wondering just who exactly the metaverse is for. I guess this answers that question to some degree.
- tomxor 4y ago
  Actually I was thinking the opposite, assuming you are referring to VR generally and not whatever BS zucburg is on about... I've bought a quest, and I'm really not the type for new and shiny things, but it's made me feel less bad about playing the occasional computer game because it really makes you move around - vr lying down is only good for watching movies, that's about it. In short, VR is like the standing desk for video games, but probably even better for health.
atestuser123 4y ago
Wouldn't it be better laying face down?
ge96 4y ago
Heh was trying this with a VR setup , would not say it was worth it/comfortable but that's my opinion.
throwaway6532 4y ago
Well I just do it by putting the laptop on my chest and using an external keyboard that also contains one of those touchpad mice like laptops have. Works like a charm and costs way less time / effort. The chest gets a little sore if you use it for too long or too many days in a row, so lately I've been thinking maybe I need to elevate the laptop off my chest a little with a C-shaped table of sorts that the laptop can sit on can sit it on. I get into flow so easily working in such a setup, and wish I could do it more often. I'm considering investing more in my work from bed setup.
dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
I've worked lying down in a similar fashion for over 10 years. You really don't need the contraption, just a monitor stand (you can make one out of two bits of wood) or a nearby wall. Also a wireless keyboard (I use the Microsoft Multimedia Keyboard). I used to just use a laptop and when I travel I still do. In both cases I either rest them on my chest or (more often) suspend them in front of me and control them with my fingers and palms. I'm healthy physically, I just prefer this. I swim, jog, cycle, do weights (I can lift my own body weight (120kgs, 6'1") with my arms vertically and horizontally, pushing and pulling). The idea you get body sores or other negative effects is ridiculous. You need a good firm surface to look after your back posture, but obviously I'm always moving around, getting up and doing things. I don't wash myself with a rag on a stick.
- erfgh 4y ago
  You jog at 120 kgs?
  - dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
    Yup. I'm a big strong guy, I used to run when I was over 130kgs. It's totally fine, I've never had even a minor injury (cycling is a different matter). If my knees ever give me trouble it's when I haven't been running for a while. Running is so natural for humans. I used to run "barefoot" (no runners or padded shoes) on rocky roads in the dark. I never got wrongfooted, your body just adjusts. It's amazing how your body can adapt to the environment.
- shard 4y ago
  When I had a back injury and was laid out for a few days, I used a computer stand similar to this: https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-RAINBEAN-Portable-Workstation-Ergonomic/dp/B086DX4NJG https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-RAINBEAN-Portable-Workstat... The stand was adjustable enough such that with my thin laptop, I was able to angle the stand such that I could type and view the screen comfortably even while lying down, without the laptop falling off the stand. I mostly used the touchpad on the laptop, but I also placed my trackball on the mouse stand which was also angled, although not as steeply due to there being not much of a lip on the mouse stand to keep the trackball from sliding off. It's annoying to have to move the laptop stand to the side whenever I get out of bed, but for a short term solution it worked out well.
ekianjo 4y ago
The only problem with this setup is that you will probably fall asleep more often than not when trying to work... and if you manage to get used to it you will train your brain that "lying down is for work, not for sleep" which is not good either.
- valec 4y ago
  I may be unusual in this regard but I don't think I can remember a single time that I have fallen asleep "by accident." I've never been able to fall asleep in class, or reading a book, or watching a movie or just lazing about the couch late at night. Is this something most people have to worry about?
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    > Is this something most people have to worry about? Probably depends on a lot on people. At least I can certify that people falling asleep in class is a thing, and not even a small percentage.
  - hamburglar 4y ago
    Ever since I had kids, I can fall asleep by accident any time of the day or night.
  - DharmaPolice 4y ago
    It's not something I worry about (since sleeping is great) but yes, I can sleep pretty much anywhere I'm comfortable. I can't easily fall asleep if my head isn't supported though so falling asleep when sitting upright doesn't really happen. The thing about the method discussed in the article is that your head is always supported so yeah I could imagine myself falling asleep during a long conference call (if I wasn't engaged in the material).
  - suction 4y ago
    Absolutely. When I had a workout (or went running or hiking) on the same day or even the day before, it is extremely hard to keep my eyes open after 9:30pm. I could be watching / reading the most exciting thing. When I "just work" i.e. don't do much in terms of physical activity, I can stay awake as long as I want.
queuebert 4y ago
I wouldn't be able to concentrate over the constant fear that the monitor would fall on my face.
boomskats 4y ago
Your hands will get very very cold with anything like this setup. If you're gonna do this, build something that lets you keep your hands below your chest. It's also well worth learning to use a split keyboard.
- cmclaughlin 4y ago
  Similarly, my hands would go numb if I worked like that
IAmGraydon 4y ago
Unless you have an injury, why would anyone want to do this? It looks like a terrible way to work.
papa_bear 4y ago
I'm a big fan of working while reclined. It gets a lot of naysayers, but as long as you're still moving around regularly, my setup has been amazing for me. Pic of setup: https://i.redd.it/8oh29a2zwqu81.jpg https://i.redd.it/8oh29a2zwqu81.jpg
- boomskats 4y ago
  Setup bros! Here's a pic of mine from 5-6 years ago. https://imgur.com/PgHfzQu https://imgur.com/PgHfzQu
- titzer 4y ago
  I've been dreaming of doing this the past couple of years because of back issues. Nice setup!
- dahfizz 4y ago
  That's absolutely incredible. Do you have some links? What keyboard is that? Monitors? The mini desk attached to the pipe stands? EDIT: how do you get in and out? The chair looks a little close to the monitor stand
  - papa_bear 4y ago
    Keyboard: dygma raise. Takes some getting used to, but has been a big improvement over having a keyboard in my lap. Monitors: Left is LG ‎34GK950F-B, right is a cheaper 32" LG. I wouldn't really recommend either of them. The left one has a great picture, but has developed some weird issues with powering on with my laptop over the past year. Mini desk: https://www.amazon.com/VIVO-Universal-Microphone-Platform-MOUNT-SF13P/dp/B08MJY3B3K/ https://www.amazon.com/VIVO-Universal-Microphone-Platform-MO... Getting out is a bit of an exercise. I push myself up on the armrests, pull my legs in, and then step out over the left side. The whole monitor setup is on wheels, so if I had the whole thing further away from the wall, I could just roll it away from me and get out normally.
    - dahfizz 4y ago
      Thanks!
seltzered_ 4y ago
For those with laptops that go to a full 180 degree tilt (e.g. a thinkpad), you can sorta do the same thing with a open-legged coffee table. I curate a subreddit with such experiments at https://reddit.com/r/ergomobilecomputers https://reddit.com/r/ergomobilecomputers
drewdog750 4y ago
Just buy an oculus quest and get virtual desktop.
heavyset_go 4y ago
I did this after an injury and began experiencing orthostatic hypertension upon standing after several months. It went away completely after not spending many waking hours a day reclined or lying down, and I don't have any underlying conditions that would cause it.
kaumrebahan 4y ago
This is interesting. Is the hand position while typing and using mouse for a long time comfortable here?
joeman1000 4y ago
This week on: Hacker meets timber… I like this, but think a trackpad might improve the awkward mouse setup a lot. Or even a ball-mouse.
- neilv 4y ago
  I don't know much about ergonomics, and I'm wondering how easy/hard that mouse position is on the hands. (Much smaller wrist bends in different directions can cause big problems.)
cjcampbell 4y ago
I don’t see why my partner would have an issue with this. Besides, she knows how much more comfortable I am reclined rather than at a desk. That has to count for something …
TheRealNGenius 4y ago
raising my arms like that is tiring. A split keyboard on the bed so that I don't need to awkwardly raise my arms is a better idea than whatever monstrosity that is.
scrapper 4y ago
I've been doing this with a bit of cordelette and two eyehooks for years. I hang my laptop by its hinge on the cordelette, adjust the screen angle to balance, bluetooth trackpad and two keyboards (one for each hand, at my sides). It's really helpful on days where my neck or back act up.
Victerius 4y ago
This is how you lose all your muscle mass.
Bud 4y ago
The weak link in all these setups is the mouse. Hilariously weak. "You can use your hand like a hook supporting your arm, with your hand itself transferring the weight onto the edge of the mouse pad." Really? Seriously? This is one of the least ergonomic things imaginable. Just use a trackpad and a lot of these problems go away. Trackpads are superior anyway, and you can fix them into a position, you don't have to make all kinds of large motions with your entire arm while holding your arm's weight up, etc.
- Sakos 4y ago
  > Trackpads are superior anyway ... no, they aren't? What a weirdly absolute but subjective statement.
  - Bud 4y ago
    Not actually subjective. Massively superior to avoid all that unnatural wrist movement, and trackpads enable multi-finger gestures of all kinds that a mouse can't do. Meanwhile you have more precision with much less motion. And for this particular application, it should be quite easy to see that a mouse requires a mouse pad, and relies on being used in the wrong plane, because of gravity, whereas a trackpad can be anchored, takes up a lot less space, and can be used in any plane. Not subjective and not weird. Objective.
    - ichugwindex 4y ago
      Not for gaming.
Uptrenda 4y ago
How do you avoid feeling sleepy if you work like that? Is that a problem for you?
scriptman 4y ago
Reminds me of one of these: https://imperatorworks.com/ https://imperatorworks.com/ They are very expensive, but I've always wondered if getting one would be worth it.
toberoni 4y ago
While this position might be comfortable, I would worry about cardiovascular deseases over the long-term. Emulating bedridden people sounds even worse than sitting (for healthy people). A standing/walking desk seems like a better direction to explore. It's much more natural to do a couple of push-ups or hang from a pull-up bar every 30 mins when you are upright already. That's less comfortable, but certainly closer to what our bodies need to function well for decades. Lying should be reserved for evenings & nights.
geocrasher 4y ago
WALL-E warned us of this...
osrec 4y ago
Just imagining working in this way seems to induce a feeling of queasiness/nausea within me. Perhaps it's because I've just had a big breakfast!
MBlume 4y ago
I expect to have a newborn in about a year and I expect that newborn to want to spend a lot of time sleeping on me. I could imagine getting some work done this way.
- bradwood 4y ago
  Good luck with that bud.
- NateEag 4y ago
  As one who actually did do some work while holding a newborn, what you actually want is a Moby wrap or similar. You wrap the kid up and tie them around your torso, then you have both hands free. Even my fussy little guy was reasonably happy in his, and would contentedly nap there while I typed.
cleandreams 4y ago
I have a my own way of working while lying down: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082D74N22/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082D74N22/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b... This has a great feature that I can go from lying down to using the same desk standing up. This works for me for comfort and for back issues. I do yoga twice a day so I am not infirm or compromised in any way. Part of that may be because I alternate with using the desk as a standing desk and a lying desk.
- Sakos 4y ago
  I think I'd end up falling asleep ...
Thorentis 4y ago
I can feel the pins and needles in my hands just by looking at that photo. How do you avoid this while laying down? I would prefer a semi reclined position rather than completely laying down.
- hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
  Get a split keyboard like the dygma raise. Now you have one less problem but still many problems.
hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
I’d genuinely consider buying a trolley/arm type device that mounts a display such that it would hang over me similar to this design, but could also be advised so it could also be viewed when laying on my side. Most devices are either stupid expensive or stupid ugly though.
caffeine 4y ago
Using a VR screen could make a lot of sense here. Along with a split keyboard so he can have his hands flat on either side of his body. Would also make it easier to get up off the bed (I’m guessing someone that wants this setup finds getting in and out of bed somewhat challenging as well.)
- jimmySixDOF 4y ago
  Currently the Youtube and Netflix apps for Meta Quest-2 HMD both let you reposition the view stage laying down on your back or on pillows & it definitely takes the physical strain out of watching a full movie in VR. I agree this should be a standard option across all the apps.
  - ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago
    Oculus Quest 2 you mean?
chemmail 4y ago
sriram_malhar 4y ago
This is a really bad idea. Your shoulders and back muscles will go for a toss because a move along the y-axis on a desk translates to a Z-axis move when laying on your back. I used to use an iPad laying down, and tiny movements that required me to move my shoulder up and down messed me up royally. I speak from experience.
t0bia_s 4y ago
What about focus? Laying down means different blood pressure in brain than it is in vertical position.
- rurban 4y ago
  Yes, it's better. And esp. for your feet. Much less work for your venes.
  - t0bia_s 4y ago
    Better? It is relaxed pose. My brain usually slows down when lying on bed.
- hda111 4y ago
  I don’t think focus would be a problem but sleeping problems. When body is accustomed to stay awake even when lying then it’s much harder to fall asleep.
heurisko 4y ago
For parts of the day, I use a laptop, balanced on a knee, whilst reclined. Particularly when reading code, rather than writing it. When I need to write something, I'll switch back to the desk. I go to the gym to avoid muscle atrophy associated with prolonged lying down.
KVFinn 4y ago
You just need a $30 monitor arm and a couch with a nearby windowsill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jld6BSQfDnk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jld6BSQfDnk At least if you can touch type, otherwise I suppose you need something for the keyboard.
aspyct 4y ago
That mouse setup would insta-kill my wrist. Other than that, looks pretty nice.
r0b05 4y ago
It seems the major problem being addressed here is the increased vertical pressure on the spine when in a seated position for an extended time. Switching to a lying down positions relieves that tension and allows the spine to relax.
n-e-w 4y ago
I mean, hats off to one of the greatest pieces of overengineering (and the documenting thereof) in history. Not only does this ensure a comfortable reclining work position — it ensures absolutely no one will ever want to recline with you, either. Pure productivity.
d--b 4y ago
I am pretty sure my hands would go numb in a matter of minutes
namelosw 4y ago
Nice. But I prefer touch typing with two-piece split keyboards on the bed, instead of raising hands.
bryanrasmussen 4y ago
machine learning enabled reclining massage chair with a system of electrodes to stimulate muscle centers when optimal exercise pause detected.
lou1306 4y ago
That setup seems pretty RSI-prone and antiergonomic to me... Forearms appear to be near-orthogonal to the keyboard, mouse usage requires putting your wrist at nearly 90 degrees, top of screen should be at eye level but appears considerably lower than that. Not to mention, blood flow to the hands may be problematic in longer session, especially for people with low blood pressure Ok, the author was happy with it after "more than a hundred hours" and did a nice writeup, but I really would think twice before replicating it.
xgdgsc 4y ago
This doesn' t look very easy on arms to me. My current favorite position is use a 30cm small bench and a low desk(less than 1m) with back lean or not lean on sofa cushion. So you can switch squatting and sitting very quickly by moving the small bench. It' s less likely to feel tired with more muscle in stress occasionally. And when you stand up there' s slightly more work done than normal sitting.
seanhunter 4y ago
Why doesn’t he just use a trackball? That has to be better than having a conventional mouse on a shelf
DavidVoid 4y ago
There's a YouTuber (Pirate King) who has a somewhat similar setup [1]. [1] https://youtu.be/jld6BSQfDnk https://youtu.be/jld6BSQfDnk
BeFlatXIII 4y ago
I've found that typing while reclined is specifically productive for creative writing. Programming and general (home) office work are best while seated on a multi-monitor setup. Writing, however, seems to flow better when I am in the same posture as when I am dreaming.
chadcmulligan 4y ago
Like others have said this probably isn't a good general solution imho. A solution I don't see mentioned much, if at all, is a draughtsman's chair [1] - they're a tall ergonomic chair that are used by draughtsman. This along with a stand up desk made from ikea bits and pieces is a solution thats lasted me for years. [1] https://latestchairs.com/draughtsman-chair-features-benefits/ https://latestchairs.com/draughtsman-chair-features-benefits...
cagey 4y ago
I did something very similar to enable true working from home while recovering (slowly) from a herniated disc about 18 years ago: given a work laptop that opened 180 degrees, using scrap and bits from my garage I hacked together a 1 x 12 pine vertical sandwiched between head of bed and wall, with 1/4" plywood horizontal (with rectangular hole jigsaw-cut for laptop screen) fully cantilevered using eye-bolts and metal chain from vertical plywood extension. IBM Model M in lap, with a (now sadly unavailable) MS optical trackball mouse on the bed next to my right hip. There was enough vertical clearance to easily roll in/out of bed (on my left side). Understandably, my wife only tolerated its marring of our bedroom decor until my back was mostly back to normal... edit: in addition to the expected pillows for my head, a triangular-cross-section firm-foam knee pillow was an essential component of this setup.
QuarkSpark 4y ago
This is awesome and sad at the same time!
Nomentatus 4y ago
The best way I've found is to get a hospital-style "overbed table" and a low bed such as a folding cot. Stretch the overbed table way up and sling your monitor below it, and you're done. I walk everywhere (prob two car/auto trips in the last year) so deconditioning isn't something I need to worry about.
underlines 4y ago
Partly related anecdote: I worked in Bangkok the last 5 years in a digital marketing startup. The well educated locals and expats here were all working on 13" laptops on cheap IKEA tables and 30$ non-office chairs. How can people in a predominantly "digital" job work with 13" laptops? I get the cost saving thing, it's obvious for a startup. Save costs on behalf of employees health. But a more important factor is a proven decrease of work performance on small single screen workplaces with bad ergonomics. I managed their IT on the side and whenever we had some cashflow available, they wanted me to order overpriced iMac setups for their designers instead of fully specced out windows desktops for half the price, which would be more cost efficient for a notoriously broke startup. Alternatively they could have invested in proper docking boxes and desks / chairs, which would surely increase the productivity of employees.

218 points by strengol 4y ago

If I heard correctly in the 1990s, one of the MIT wearable computing people wrote their dissertation while laying down, using their glasses-mounted head-up display and chording keyboard. (It sounded all the more luxurious in a time when few people had laptops, and the pickings for desktop machines were often slim, and shared.)

narrator 4y ago

If you have a lot of money to spare, you could always get one of these bad boys which are designed to allow one to work flat on ones back including a specially designed magnetic mouse: http://www.altwork.com http://www.altwork.com

ishtanbul 4y ago
I have an altwork, its awesome. I wrote a brief review https://www.reddit.com/r/StandingDesk/comments/nd4o9t/altwork_signature_setup_photos/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://www.reddit.com/r/StandingDesk/comments/nd4o9t/altwor...
tenuousemphasis 4y ago
There's a less expensive solution with a more stable monitor mount. I have one on order that should be shipping soon. https://levus.co/ https://levus.co/
- r0b05 4y ago
  Approaching Wall-E and Idiocracy levels but this looks incredibly comfortable!
clcaev 4y ago
I'm very happy with an http://ergoquest.com http://ergoquest.com

erfgh 4y ago

My eyes dry up when looking upwards...

paulryanrogers 4y ago

That mouse arrangement looks very uncomfortable

mrmuagi 4y ago
I think so too, a split keyboard on either side of hips would seem better.
- bryanlarsen 4y ago
  That's what he appears to be using in one of the linked articles.
- Bud 4y ago
  Split keyboard doesn't solve the mouse issue. Doesn't even address it. But a trackpad does.

lswank 4y ago

Extended periods of time in a supine position can lead to a number of health problems including venous stasis, pressure ulcers, and respiratory difficulties. The position of the keyboard and screen can put strain on the neck and shoulders. And let's not get started about sleep problems that are just waiting if you do this. Even hospitals require patients to be up and moving around, even if they are bedridden. In addition to the issues above, t helps the patient to stay mentally alert and to avoid depression and it helps the patient to build up their strength so that they can eventually be discharged from the hospital. If a patient is unable to move around, say hello to our little friend heparin, prevent venous stasis. If doctors feel this strongly about getting up and moving, even when you can barely do so, imagine how they feel about people who choose to do this for any other reason.

1MachineElf 4y ago

As someone with a messed up T10 vertebrae this is the kind of setup I often dream about.

jihadjihad 4y ago

I can feel my wrists getting cold and going numb just from looking at that photo...

jaqalopes 4y ago

While I agree with other commenters here that this setup probably isn't a good idea for most people, I want to go out on a limb and say it seems to me the author may have good reason to have undertaken such a project (he specifically mentions that this article is NOT about his motivations). Specifically, just profiling based on the apparent age of the gentleman in the photos, I would not be surprised if this reason was some sort of injury, arthritis, or similar source of pain caused by ordinary sitting-at-a-desk posture. All that is to say, good for him for making a thing that seems to work for his needs, and shame on people jumping to poo-poo this because it's not solving a problem they personally have.

syntheweave 4y ago
I've tried all the setups at this point, including the supine one. It has plenty to recommend it in a limited, mostly consumptive role; many people sleep a whole eight hours in roughly that position. It does tend to get in the way of typing although a fully split keyboard can address that. But my everyday work is now done at a floor table. This posture brings a different level of activation energy, and it lets me keep moving around which is a clear advantage over most. It can present some of the same stresses as chair seating but it has more opportunities to relax. And unlike the standing or treadmill desks it easily works on a budget too - tape up a cardboard box and weigh it down and you have a temporary desk setup that will support most equipment. For a better surface with a finish and leg room, Ikea provides options, or you can get more specialized folding floor desks with angle adjustments and drawers off of Amazon.
- bigDinosaur 4y ago
  Personally I realised that trying to economise too much on desks is actually kinda crazy when you work out how much time one spends using the desk (like a mattress), so I went and bought a standing desk which is definitely easier than stacking cardboard boxes etc. Still, whatever works for you.
- newtwilly 4y ago
  Do you sit on a cushion or no?

tengbretson 4y ago

For awhile now I've been wondering just who exactly the metaverse is for. I guess this answers that question to some degree.

tomxor 4y ago
Actually I was thinking the opposite, assuming you are referring to VR generally and not whatever BS zucburg is on about... I've bought a quest, and I'm really not the type for new and shiny things, but it's made me feel less bad about playing the occasional computer game because it really makes you move around - vr lying down is only good for watching movies, that's about it. In short, VR is like the standing desk for video games, but probably even better for health.

atestuser123 4y ago

Wouldn't it be better laying face down?

ge96 4y ago

Heh was trying this with a VR setup , would not say it was worth it/comfortable but that's my opinion.

throwaway6532 4y ago

Well I just do it by putting the laptop on my chest and using an external keyboard that also contains one of those touchpad mice like laptops have. Works like a charm and costs way less time / effort. The chest gets a little sore if you use it for too long or too many days in a row, so lately I've been thinking maybe I need to elevate the laptop off my chest a little with a C-shaped table of sorts that the laptop can sit on can sit it on. I get into flow so easily working in such a setup, and wish I could do it more often. I'm considering investing more in my work from bed setup.

dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago

I've worked lying down in a similar fashion for over 10 years. You really don't need the contraption, just a monitor stand (you can make one out of two bits of wood) or a nearby wall. Also a wireless keyboard (I use the Microsoft Multimedia Keyboard). I used to just use a laptop and when I travel I still do. In both cases I either rest them on my chest or (more often) suspend them in front of me and control them with my fingers and palms. I'm healthy physically, I just prefer this. I swim, jog, cycle, do weights (I can lift my own body weight (120kgs, 6'1") with my arms vertically and horizontally, pushing and pulling). The idea you get body sores or other negative effects is ridiculous. You need a good firm surface to look after your back posture, but obviously I'm always moving around, getting up and doing things. I don't wash myself with a rag on a stick.

erfgh 4y ago
You jog at 120 kgs?
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
  Yup. I'm a big strong guy, I used to run when I was over 130kgs. It's totally fine, I've never had even a minor injury (cycling is a different matter). If my knees ever give me trouble it's when I haven't been running for a while. Running is so natural for humans. I used to run "barefoot" (no runners or padded shoes) on rocky roads in the dark. I never got wrongfooted, your body just adjusts. It's amazing how your body can adapt to the environment.
shard 4y ago
When I had a back injury and was laid out for a few days, I used a computer stand similar to this: https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-RAINBEAN-Portable-Workstation-Ergonomic/dp/B086DX4NJG https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-RAINBEAN-Portable-Workstat... The stand was adjustable enough such that with my thin laptop, I was able to angle the stand such that I could type and view the screen comfortably even while lying down, without the laptop falling off the stand. I mostly used the touchpad on the laptop, but I also placed my trackball on the mouse stand which was also angled, although not as steeply due to there being not much of a lip on the mouse stand to keep the trackball from sliding off. It's annoying to have to move the laptop stand to the side whenever I get out of bed, but for a short term solution it worked out well.

ekianjo 4y ago

The only problem with this setup is that you will probably fall asleep more often than not when trying to work... and if you manage to get used to it you will train your brain that "lying down is for work, not for sleep" which is not good either.

valec 4y ago
I may be unusual in this regard but I don't think I can remember a single time that I have fallen asleep "by accident." I've never been able to fall asleep in class, or reading a book, or watching a movie or just lazing about the couch late at night. Is this something most people have to worry about?
- ekianjo 4y ago
  > Is this something most people have to worry about? Probably depends on a lot on people. At least I can certify that people falling asleep in class is a thing, and not even a small percentage.
- hamburglar 4y ago
  Ever since I had kids, I can fall asleep by accident any time of the day or night.
- DharmaPolice 4y ago
  It's not something I worry about (since sleeping is great) but yes, I can sleep pretty much anywhere I'm comfortable. I can't easily fall asleep if my head isn't supported though so falling asleep when sitting upright doesn't really happen. The thing about the method discussed in the article is that your head is always supported so yeah I could imagine myself falling asleep during a long conference call (if I wasn't engaged in the material).
- suction 4y ago
  Absolutely. When I had a workout (or went running or hiking) on the same day or even the day before, it is extremely hard to keep my eyes open after 9:30pm. I could be watching / reading the most exciting thing. When I "just work" i.e. don't do much in terms of physical activity, I can stay awake as long as I want.

queuebert 4y ago

I wouldn't be able to concentrate over the constant fear that the monitor would fall on my face.

boomskats 4y ago

Your hands will get very very cold with anything like this setup. If you're gonna do this, build something that lets you keep your hands below your chest. It's also well worth learning to use a split keyboard.

cmclaughlin 4y ago
Similarly, my hands would go numb if I worked like that

IAmGraydon 4y ago

Unless you have an injury, why would anyone want to do this? It looks like a terrible way to work.

papa_bear 4y ago

I'm a big fan of working while reclined. It gets a lot of naysayers, but as long as you're still moving around regularly, my setup has been amazing for me. Pic of setup: https://i.redd.it/8oh29a2zwqu81.jpg https://i.redd.it/8oh29a2zwqu81.jpg

boomskats 4y ago
Setup bros! Here's a pic of mine from 5-6 years ago. https://imgur.com/PgHfzQu https://imgur.com/PgHfzQu
titzer 4y ago
I've been dreaming of doing this the past couple of years because of back issues. Nice setup!
dahfizz 4y ago
That's absolutely incredible. Do you have some links? What keyboard is that? Monitors? The mini desk attached to the pipe stands? EDIT: how do you get in and out? The chair looks a little close to the monitor stand
- papa_bear 4y ago
  Keyboard: dygma raise. Takes some getting used to, but has been a big improvement over having a keyboard in my lap. Monitors: Left is LG ‎34GK950F-B, right is a cheaper 32" LG. I wouldn't really recommend either of them. The left one has a great picture, but has developed some weird issues with powering on with my laptop over the past year. Mini desk: https://www.amazon.com/VIVO-Universal-Microphone-Platform-MOUNT-SF13P/dp/B08MJY3B3K/ https://www.amazon.com/VIVO-Universal-Microphone-Platform-MO... Getting out is a bit of an exercise. I push myself up on the armrests, pull my legs in, and then step out over the left side. The whole monitor setup is on wheels, so if I had the whole thing further away from the wall, I could just roll it away from me and get out normally.
  - dahfizz 4y ago
    Thanks!

seltzered_ 4y ago

For those with laptops that go to a full 180 degree tilt (e.g. a thinkpad), you can sorta do the same thing with a open-legged coffee table. I curate a subreddit with such experiments at https://reddit.com/r/ergomobilecomputers https://reddit.com/r/ergomobilecomputers

drewdog750 4y ago

Just buy an oculus quest and get virtual desktop.

heavyset_go 4y ago

I did this after an injury and began experiencing orthostatic hypertension upon standing after several months. It went away completely after not spending many waking hours a day reclined or lying down, and I don't have any underlying conditions that would cause it.

kaumrebahan 4y ago

This is interesting. Is the hand position while typing and using mouse for a long time comfortable here?

joeman1000 4y ago

This week on: Hacker meets timber… I like this, but think a trackpad might improve the awkward mouse setup a lot. Or even a ball-mouse.

neilv 4y ago
I don't know much about ergonomics, and I'm wondering how easy/hard that mouse position is on the hands. (Much smaller wrist bends in different directions can cause big problems.)

cjcampbell 4y ago

I don’t see why my partner would have an issue with this. Besides, she knows how much more comfortable I am reclined rather than at a desk. That has to count for something …

TheRealNGenius 4y ago

raising my arms like that is tiring. A split keyboard on the bed so that I don't need to awkwardly raise my arms is a better idea than whatever monstrosity that is.

scrapper 4y ago

I've been doing this with a bit of cordelette and two eyehooks for years. I hang my laptop by its hinge on the cordelette, adjust the screen angle to balance, bluetooth trackpad and two keyboards (one for each hand, at my sides). It's really helpful on days where my neck or back act up.

Victerius 4y ago

This is how you lose all your muscle mass.

Bud 4y ago

The weak link in all these setups is the mouse. Hilariously weak. "You can use your hand like a hook supporting your arm, with your hand itself transferring the weight onto the edge of the mouse pad." Really? Seriously? This is one of the least ergonomic things imaginable. Just use a trackpad and a lot of these problems go away. Trackpads are superior anyway, and you can fix them into a position, you don't have to make all kinds of large motions with your entire arm while holding your arm's weight up, etc.

Sakos 4y ago
> Trackpads are superior anyway ... no, they aren't? What a weirdly absolute but subjective statement.
- Bud 4y ago
  Not actually subjective. Massively superior to avoid all that unnatural wrist movement, and trackpads enable multi-finger gestures of all kinds that a mouse can't do. Meanwhile you have more precision with much less motion. And for this particular application, it should be quite easy to see that a mouse requires a mouse pad, and relies on being used in the wrong plane, because of gravity, whereas a trackpad can be anchored, takes up a lot less space, and can be used in any plane. Not subjective and not weird. Objective.
  - ichugwindex 4y ago
    Not for gaming.

Uptrenda 4y ago

How do you avoid feeling sleepy if you work like that? Is that a problem for you?

scriptman 4y ago

Reminds me of one of these: https://imperatorworks.com/ https://imperatorworks.com/ They are very expensive, but I've always wondered if getting one would be worth it.

toberoni 4y ago

While this position might be comfortable, I would worry about cardiovascular deseases over the long-term. Emulating bedridden people sounds even worse than sitting (for healthy people). A standing/walking desk seems like a better direction to explore. It's much more natural to do a couple of push-ups or hang from a pull-up bar every 30 mins when you are upright already. That's less comfortable, but certainly closer to what our bodies need to function well for decades. Lying should be reserved for evenings & nights.

geocrasher 4y ago

WALL-E warned us of this...

osrec 4y ago

Just imagining working in this way seems to induce a feeling of queasiness/nausea within me. Perhaps it's because I've just had a big breakfast!

MBlume 4y ago

I expect to have a newborn in about a year and I expect that newborn to want to spend a lot of time sleeping on me. I could imagine getting some work done this way.

bradwood 4y ago
Good luck with that bud.
NateEag 4y ago
As one who actually did do some work while holding a newborn, what you actually want is a Moby wrap or similar. You wrap the kid up and tie them around your torso, then you have both hands free. Even my fussy little guy was reasonably happy in his, and would contentedly nap there while I typed.

cleandreams 4y ago

I have a my own way of working while lying down: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082D74N22/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082D74N22/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b... This has a great feature that I can go from lying down to using the same desk standing up. This works for me for comfort and for back issues. I do yoga twice a day so I am not infirm or compromised in any way. Part of that may be because I alternate with using the desk as a standing desk and a lying desk.

Sakos 4y ago
I think I'd end up falling asleep ...

Thorentis 4y ago

I can feel the pins and needles in my hands just by looking at that photo. How do you avoid this while laying down? I would prefer a semi reclined position rather than completely laying down.

hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
Get a split keyboard like the dygma raise. Now you have one less problem but still many problems.

hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago

I’d genuinely consider buying a trolley/arm type device that mounts a display such that it would hang over me similar to this design, but could also be advised so it could also be viewed when laying on my side. Most devices are either stupid expensive or stupid ugly though.

caffeine 4y ago

Using a VR screen could make a lot of sense here. Along with a split keyboard so he can have his hands flat on either side of his body. Would also make it easier to get up off the bed (I’m guessing someone that wants this setup finds getting in and out of bed somewhat challenging as well.)

jimmySixDOF 4y ago
Currently the Youtube and Netflix apps for Meta Quest-2 HMD both let you reposition the view stage laying down on your back or on pillows & it definitely takes the physical strain out of watching a full movie in VR. I agree this should be a standard option across all the apps.
- ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago
  Oculus Quest 2 you mean?

chemmail 4y ago

sriram_malhar 4y ago

This is a really bad idea. Your shoulders and back muscles will go for a toss because a move along the y-axis on a desk translates to a Z-axis move when laying on your back. I used to use an iPad laying down, and tiny movements that required me to move my shoulder up and down messed me up royally. I speak from experience.

t0bia_s 4y ago

What about focus? Laying down means different blood pressure in brain than it is in vertical position.

rurban 4y ago
Yes, it's better. And esp. for your feet. Much less work for your venes.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  Better? It is relaxed pose. My brain usually slows down when lying on bed.
hda111 4y ago
I don’t think focus would be a problem but sleeping problems. When body is accustomed to stay awake even when lying then it’s much harder to fall asleep.

heurisko 4y ago

For parts of the day, I use a laptop, balanced on a knee, whilst reclined. Particularly when reading code, rather than writing it. When I need to write something, I'll switch back to the desk. I go to the gym to avoid muscle atrophy associated with prolonged lying down.

KVFinn 4y ago

You just need a $30 monitor arm and a couch with a nearby windowsill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jld6BSQfDnk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jld6BSQfDnk At least if you can touch type, otherwise I suppose you need something for the keyboard.

aspyct 4y ago

That mouse setup would insta-kill my wrist. Other than that, looks pretty nice.

r0b05 4y ago

It seems the major problem being addressed here is the increased vertical pressure on the spine when in a seated position for an extended time. Switching to a lying down positions relieves that tension and allows the spine to relax.

n-e-w 4y ago

I mean, hats off to one of the greatest pieces of overengineering (and the documenting thereof) in history. Not only does this ensure a comfortable reclining work position — it ensures absolutely no one will ever want to recline with you, either. Pure productivity.

d--b 4y ago

I am pretty sure my hands would go numb in a matter of minutes

namelosw 4y ago

Nice. But I prefer touch typing with two-piece split keyboards on the bed, instead of raising hands.

bryanrasmussen 4y ago

machine learning enabled reclining massage chair with a system of electrodes to stimulate muscle centers when optimal exercise pause detected.

lou1306 4y ago

That setup seems pretty RSI-prone and antiergonomic to me... Forearms appear to be near-orthogonal to the keyboard, mouse usage requires putting your wrist at nearly 90 degrees, top of screen should be at eye level but appears considerably lower than that. Not to mention, blood flow to the hands may be problematic in longer session, especially for people with low blood pressure Ok, the author was happy with it after "more than a hundred hours" and did a nice writeup, but I really would think twice before replicating it.

xgdgsc 4y ago

This doesn' t look very easy on arms to me. My current favorite position is use a 30cm small bench and a low desk(less than 1m) with back lean or not lean on sofa cushion. So you can switch squatting and sitting very quickly by moving the small bench. It' s less likely to feel tired with more muscle in stress occasionally. And when you stand up there' s slightly more work done than normal sitting.

seanhunter 4y ago

Why doesn’t he just use a trackball? That has to be better than having a conventional mouse on a shelf

DavidVoid 4y ago

There's a YouTuber (Pirate King) who has a somewhat similar setup [1]. [1] https://youtu.be/jld6BSQfDnk https://youtu.be/jld6BSQfDnk

BeFlatXIII 4y ago

I've found that typing while reclined is specifically productive for creative writing. Programming and general (home) office work are best while seated on a multi-monitor setup. Writing, however, seems to flow better when I am in the same posture as when I am dreaming.

chadcmulligan 4y ago

Like others have said this probably isn't a good general solution imho. A solution I don't see mentioned much, if at all, is a draughtsman's chair [1] - they're a tall ergonomic chair that are used by draughtsman. This along with a stand up desk made from ikea bits and pieces is a solution thats lasted me for years. [1] https://latestchairs.com/draughtsman-chair-features-benefits/ https://latestchairs.com/draughtsman-chair-features-benefits...

cagey 4y ago

I did something very similar to enable true working from home while recovering (slowly) from a herniated disc about 18 years ago: given a work laptop that opened 180 degrees, using scrap and bits from my garage I hacked together a 1 x 12 pine vertical sandwiched between head of bed and wall, with 1/4" plywood horizontal (with rectangular hole jigsaw-cut for laptop screen) fully cantilevered using eye-bolts and metal chain from vertical plywood extension. IBM Model M in lap, with a (now sadly unavailable) MS optical trackball mouse on the bed next to my right hip. There was enough vertical clearance to easily roll in/out of bed (on my left side). Understandably, my wife only tolerated its marring of our bedroom decor until my back was mostly back to normal... edit: in addition to the expected pillows for my head, a triangular-cross-section firm-foam knee pillow was an essential component of this setup.

QuarkSpark 4y ago

This is awesome and sad at the same time!

Nomentatus 4y ago

The best way I've found is to get a hospital-style "overbed table" and a low bed such as a folding cot. Stretch the overbed table way up and sling your monitor below it, and you're done. I walk everywhere (prob two car/auto trips in the last year) so deconditioning isn't something I need to worry about.

underlines 4y ago

Partly related anecdote: I worked in Bangkok the last 5 years in a digital marketing startup. The well educated locals and expats here were all working on 13" laptops on cheap IKEA tables and 30$ non-office chairs. How can people in a predominantly "digital" job work with 13" laptops? I get the cost saving thing, it's obvious for a startup. Save costs on behalf of employees health. But a more important factor is a proven decrease of work performance on small single screen workplaces with bad ergonomics. I managed their IT on the side and whenever we had some cashflow available, they wanted me to order overpriced iMac setups for their designers instead of fully specced out windows desktops for half the price, which would be more cost efficient for a notoriously broke startup. Alternatively they could have invested in proper docking boxes and desks / chairs, which would surely increase the productivity of employees.