22 ms·

This is one of the things I struggle with the most in life. I feel like most people don't seem to care about noise pollution and zero care is put into designing

This is one of the things I struggle with the most in life. I feel like most people don't seem to care about noise pollution and zero care is put into designing living spaces or cities to minimize it. I've moved into apartments and nearly cried because I realized that there was some noise pollution that wasn't apparent when I visited it (e.g. a water boiler that ran constantly at night, road noise during the day, etc) and would have to deal with it for a year. One of the few countries I've been to that takes noise pollution seriously is Switzerland. A beautifully peaceful and quiet country.

The_rationalist 5y ago
ggm 5y ago
When earbuds came on the market, Audiologists said "this is going to be a disaster in 20 years time" and guess what: tinnitus and high frequency hearing loss levels are through the roof. I think its to one side of your concern, but related: we truly don't socialize the needed guarding of our eardrums. It's a vicious cycle: unexpected mechanical noises stop us sleeping, leads to weight gain, diabetes, heart problems, high BP which in turn feeds tinnitus, hearing loss... I wake early for other reasons. Sunrise birdsong is lovely. But dump-truck and recycling truck noises are pretty clashy.
- eliseumds 5y ago
  Yep, I joined the tinnitus bandwagon in the beginning of the pandemic. I was locked up at home and neighbouring dogs wouldn't shut up all day, so I resorted to earplugs and here I am now. Surprisingly I met at least 5 other people with the same problem recently, and they were all told by doctors that it was due to stress and not earplugs/headphones. I call it BS.
  - nanidin 5y ago
    Earplugs gave you tinnitus? Do you mean earbuds? Earplugs are typically hearing PPE.
    - eliseumds 5y ago
      I've done pretty much everything I could imagine to try to identify the root cause, no doctor could give a reasonable diagnosis. My tinnitus started after a night with earplugs, but it could have been a coincidence since I also used noise-cancelled Sony headphones. Who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      - Zircom 5y ago
        Not to be rude but you ascribing an equal likelihood of causing tinnitus to one night of using earplugs(which BLOCK sound from your ears) vs presumably regular/sustained use of noise cancelling headphones(which BLAST sound into your ears) borders on ridiculousness and make me think you're just trolling..
        Izkata 5y ago
        Earplugs go into the ear similar to earbuds, but are squishy and meant to be rolled thin so you can get them in a bit further (then they decompress halfway inside your ear and fill in the gaps). If you push them in too far I imagine they can damage the eardrum, which could cause tinnitus. After trying earplugs myself a few months ago, I decided it was too risky to sleep with them due to the pressure I felt in my ear (the one against the pillow) when I lay on my side.
        AngryData 5y ago
        You would have to push your ear plugs in so far that you couldn't take them out to get anywhere near the eardrum though.
        Panoramix 5y ago
        My tinnitus started after a night out with earplugs. Basically the earplugs pushed wax buildup deep into my eardrum. It took quite a while to remove that wax, and while that improved things a lot, the tinnitus stayed after that.
  - helloooooooo 5y ago
    I got pretty bad tinnitus due to stress induced bruxism. Identifying the source of the stress that caused it was difficult, but it turned out it was video games! So I stopped playing them so much, and the tinnitus went away
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Of all of the years as a DJ using headphones in loud settings, all of the concerts, all of the events with loud amplified sound systems, etc, I was able to avoid tinnitus. It wasn't until I was driving and was t-boned in my side of the car with a side impact airbag going off. I walked away from the car with nothing more than a few scratches from flying glass, this lovely ringing in the ear, and this lousy t-shirt.
    - sebow 5y ago
      As a concert attender I probably recall the event that was the most likely cause which gave me tinnitus. It was an EDM concert where the front speakers sounded very 'rough' and also the stupid decision on my (& my friends) part to stay as close in the front as possible, for more than 1 hour. I think close impacts from airwaves (crashes, staying close to speakers, etc) are the most popular cause, as listening 'responsibly' on headphones did not gave me tinnitus before, nor did my usual edm concert attendance (excepting obviously the following couple of days). The eardrum can recover but once it's been 'cracked' remedies are very rare (if they exist at all, haven't researched).
- Swizec 5y ago
  > When earbuds came on the market I switched to active noise cancelling headphones and earbuds several years ago (2015-ish) primarily because they enable me to keep volume at like 20% and still get the benefits of sound isolation. It's been a huge revolution for me personally. Running for 2 hours used to give me an ear-ache. Now it's perfect. The improvement in comfort from music-at-the-office is even bigger. 8 hours was a lot and sound isolation is really important to me. I can't focus if I can hear other humans and eating noises make me wanna punch people.
  - hiptobecubic 5y ago
    I hope you aren't running with ear plugs and noise cancelling headphones or have some dedicated safe place to run.
    - Swizec 5y ago
      I’ve tested and thanks to the low volume I can hear more than I did with normal earbuds. Noise cancelling is great at blocking out constant sounds like wind and background traffic, but it doesn’t do much for acute noises like horns, nearby cars, bicycle bells, or people talking/shouting. With regular earbuds they were cranked up to 80% to block out the wind so I couldn’t hear any of the acute sounds I can hear with noise canceling and volume at 20%. Funfact: I ride my motorcycle with actual earplugs. The wind noise at 80mph causes permanent damage after 15min. You hear more of the important stuff with earplugs because they block the wind.
      - rangersanger 5y ago
        What headphones are you using? I’m training for a marathon and it’d probably be wise for me to turn down the volume a bit but running with my bose closed backs sounds miserable
        Swizec 5y ago
        AirPods Pro have worked best of everything I’ve tried
- Buttons840 5y ago
  */5 * * * * osascript -e 'set volume output volume (output volume of (get volume settings))-1' Speaking of tinnitus, and since this is Hacker News: I've entered the above in crontab (crontab -e) on my mac. It lowers the volume a small amount every 5 minutes. I have to press the volume up button once every 30 minutes to keep a roughly equal volume level. This prevents me from accidentally listening to something that is too loud for too long. At the level I usually listen to music, it takes about 2 hours to fade to nothing; it's a linear fade, so after 30 minutes the volume is at 75% my preferred starting volume. If I get lost in my work, the music gradually fades and I avoid realizing many hours later that I've been blasting my ears the whole time. I wish all devices had a mode like this. I haven't investigated how to do this on Linux, but it should be possible there as well I think.
  - nicolas_t 5y ago
    Thanks for this. Really great idea! I normally don't set my headphones that loud but it's happened that I raised the volume during a meeting because someone was talking too quietly and forgot to lower it.
    - Buttons840 5y ago
      Another nice bonus is that if you're listening to a song at room filling volume during the day, and then later at night you want to quietly watch a video, by then the volume will have decayed to zero so you wont be surprised with a really loud video.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    seems like it'd be better served to have some sort of limit on how loud the volume on a device can be set. maybe in the system preferences set MAX = 75%, but in Finder allow the volume to be set at 100% in the UI but the system keeping it limited. make this a per Output setting so when you switch back to Built-in or other external device it is not limited to anything but your buds.
    - grapeskin 5y ago
- noahtallen 5y ago
  Super true. Go to any modern concert, or even most movie theaters, and much of the experience will be well over 80, and even 90db. This is frankly unacceptable. Even the supposedly good standards for audio engineering (Dolby atoms and IMAX) — which specifically make sure theaters are following the spec — are over 90db. A wedding DJ had the music at over 90db in a small venue recently. The last concert I went to, which had good audio engineers, was over 90db for nearly the whole thing. My theory is that audio engineers are mixing live venues after already having hearing loss, thus normalizing hearing damage for everyone else as well. I strongly believe regulation is needed to combat these problems. Firstly, a venue should not be allowed to damage one’s hearing with loud speakers. I think it’d be reasonable to require nearly all of any auditory experience to be under 80db. Secondly, city noise pollution is a huge health problem as well. Most of it comes from car tire noise or strangely loud engines (like Harleys), so preventing that should be a priority. Walk along the waterfront in any city, and the overwhelming audio source is the white noise of car tires on the uncovered freeways. It’s hard to imagine how wonderful these places could be if those sounds were much more muted. I have no problem if you want to have fun with a loud thing, but do it out in the middle of nowhere! Like any kind of pollution, we have a right to live without others negatively affecting us. I think law has not really caught up in these areas of human rights.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    OSHA requires mitigation above 85 db, and yet there aren't anything mentioning it on venues. https://www.osha.gov/noise https://www.osha.gov/noise It's understandable that a movie or song might WANT to get loud at a particular time, but squashing everything to max is not the way to go.
  - bradstewart 5y ago
    It's absolutely wild how loud modern sound systems get, even relatively small ones. I even bring earplugs to weddings at this point because the band is so incredibly loud (out of the amplified speakers).
nicolas_t 5y ago
I've learned the hard way to be very careful about noise when visiting apartments, so I'll try to ask other residents of the building I'm interested in and will do multiple visits at different time of the day to better understand how the noise situation is. Especially important now that I live in Hong Kong where a lot of apartments don't even use double pane windows.
- drstewart 5y ago
  That'd be ideal, but in some markets that's not possible. One of the apartments in question was in SF and I literally had to put my application in <10 minutes into the showing to get the place, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten it. There's no way to do any kind of actual inspection of a unit in those circumstances.
  - nicolas_t 5y ago
    It's a bit similar in HK, what we do though is research the different buildings a few months before our lease is over. That allows us to visit units in those buildings without being pressured to make an offer and once we're seriously looking we have a much better idea of the market.
    - angled 5y ago
      In HK, the further south you go the better it seems to be… bar TST of course! I agree about the lack of double glazing here, if we ever buy, that will be one of the first things I’d try to change. I imagine Penny’s Bay is quiet!
      - nicolas_t 5y ago
        Yes, we moved to Tai Hang which is quite nice in terms of noise (much much better than Kennedy Town where we used to live). We actually get bird chirping at night and early mornings and barely any traffic noise.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
shados 5y ago
Not only do people not care, they actively push down and belittle people who do. They'll say it's just something that's notmaly and anyone trying to change it should move. Most source of noise pollution wouldnt be that hard to fix. Society just doesn't want to.
- throw__away7391 5y ago
  It's because almost all the noise in the modern world is caused by cars and motorcycles, and in the United States are prioritized over all other life forms.
  - Gigachad 5y ago
    Imo it should become regulation that all cars have to have some audio transparency tech like headphones have. Then we would be able to lower the volume of emergency sirens which are obscenely loud to penetrate cars.
    - ben-schaaf 5y ago
      Massively reducing car usage is a much better solution with much more wide-spread benefits.
      - Gigachad 5y ago
        That as well. But it does feel very wrong that combustion engine users can emit huge amounts of noise and pollution while sitting in sound proof, HEPA filtered boxes.
        jeffbee 5y ago
        The horn on automobiles should be mounted inside the cabin. They can make it as loud as they need to make it, but the person who hears it the loudest should be the driver.
        5y ago
ne0flex 5y ago
On a somewhat related note, I've been living in NYC for the past 7 years or so. I noticed that whenever I go to visit my parents house in Canada, the lack of noise kind of stresses me out. The first few nights when I try to sleep, it's just too quiet and something feels weird.
ghotli 5y ago
Sometimes out of a similar desire I will wear noise cancelling earbuds inside of noise cancelling over the ear headphones. No music no sound, pure silence. Obviously not a cheap solution but doubling up is better than any earplugs I've ever used.
- jamiek88 5y ago
  I’ve thought about this, does it actually work? I worried there would be weird feedback issues.
  - trentgreene 5y ago
    Works great for me, also see wearing ear plugs inside of noise cancelling head phones
    - quantum_magpie 5y ago
      That's my airplane remedy!
- lkbm 5y ago
  The first time I tried my friend's hearing protection for shooting I was absolutely amazed. I've always gone to headphones built for listening, with the noise cancellation a secondary consideration. Professional grade heading protection is really good. (MPOW HP102A is the only brand/model I personally know, but I suspect if you ask people who hunt, they'll have good recs. A quick Google search finds things with higher "Noise Reduction Rating" ratings.) For sleeping, I used the Bose QuietComfort for a long time. I'm a side-sleeper, so large headphones were a challenge.
- everybodyknows 5y ago
  For a cheap (and zero maintenance) solution, double up plugs inside a pair of hardware store "leaf blower" headphones. Very effective, no dead-battery surprises.
Gigachad 5y ago
I wish we would take car caused health impacts as serious as we did covid. We have a never ending stream of research and yet no one cares. We can’t even take action against modded motorbikes and cars which damage peoples health for zero functional gain.
- sooheon 5y ago
  Humans fear novelty more than actual danger itself. This is also why nuclear consistently fails to gain traction while fossil fuels continue the status quo of killing millions.
- dylan604 5y ago
  I wish we'd turn into something positve the data learned when the world shut down for a few weeks in 2020 to see how clear the air got, how quiet the neighborhoods got, how still the ground got all from the massive amounts of cars not being used.
- Synaesthesia 5y ago
  Maybe we should have a system which looks at human needs first and tries to address them, rather than as a side effect of making profit.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  > as serious as we did covid Is that sarcasm? Human society utterly failed at handling Covid.
- m0llusk 5y ago
  And there have been proposals to make electric cars produce engine noises for safety. It makes sense to consider this, but making loud warning noises seems like a huge problem. This also comes up with back up beepers and garage exit activity warning buzzers.
  - pandemicsoul 5y ago
    God that shit infuriates me. I used to live downtown in a city and only realized after moving into my apartment that I was close enough to hear a crosswalk beeper nearby. Now, I know that it needs to be there for blind accessibility, but I'll never understand why it needed to beep EVERY cycle (basically every minute it would beep for 30 seconds) instead of just when someone pushed the button. It's like, how did no one who set this thing up think about all the people living nearby who'd have to listen to this incessant beeping from 6am to 10pm???
seattle_spring 5y ago
People are so unbelievably disrespectful with noise in the US. Peaceful hike? Here's Katy Perry crackling out of my iPhone at full blast! Luxury apartment at $4k a month? No insulation between units, and the guy above you comes home at 2am and never takes his shoes off. Small country street? Here comes Chad with his straight-piped civic with the muffler removed!
- gotaquestion 5y ago
  Want to go to the beach? Well here's Toby Keith on your left, Christian Radio on your right, Mariachi in front of you, and Ye behind you. I want all beaches to be public, but then I hate public beaches. meirl.
- gonehome 5y ago
  I find by far the biggest disruption in US suburbs is lawn equipment. Suburbs are louder than cities imo because there is always a leaf blower, lawn mower, and weedwacker going at all times during the day within 100 yards of you. Often for hours. Moving from Palo Alto to SF things got way quieter.
  - Forgeties79 5y ago
    It drives me absolutely insane. I can’t record audio virtually anywhere unless I treat the hell out of the room. I shouldn’t have to turn my room into a soundproof bunker to be able to record some voiceovers. It’s ridiculous. My previous home office had spray foam insulation with double layer sheet rock and bass traps on the walls, yet I still had to have a small homemade box around the microphone when I was doing any sort of voice work that wasn’t more informal.
    - gonehome 5y ago
      Yeah - the joke is people say they move to suburbs to get 'peace and quiet' compared to a loud city, but city life is so much quieter (at least where I live). I'm sure that's not always the case, but I really hated the lawn equipment. Sure in a city a loud motorcycle may go by, but that's like 10 seconds of noise? Compared to a revving leaf blower for an hour (and usually there are a bunch of them going). They're even banned in Palo Alto, but it's not enforced.
Karrot_Kream 5y ago
It all comes back to code. Noise abatement materials are not part of most residential building codes in the US because most residential buildings are expected to be single family homes with detached lots. If you don't live in that situation then tough luck. Very little effort is spent politically trying to improve quality of life in any other form of domicile. Concretely I suggest reaching out to your city council and trying to push for using more noise abating materials in code depending on the classification of residence (e.g. for dense residential.) My partner and I live in a condo run by an HOA and noise abatement material (underflooring, between walls, etc) up to certain spec is mandated by our HOA. We only hear our neighbors when they're having drywall work done in the home.
- vegetablepotpie 5y ago
  Calling city council sounds simple. I will say that if you want to get anywhere with local policy, you either need to have money, or lots of people asking for your policy. Both of those things come from organizing, which is a months to years long effort. That’s what you’re signing up for when you want to change laws. You may get better mileage hiring a contractor, if you own a home, or talking to your property manager if you rent for upgrades to your dwelling.
bigDinosaur 5y ago
It's also possible to surface roads such that cars on them are significantly quieter. This is more expensive, but you'd think it'd be done in at least some places in North American style cities. To my knowledge it really is not, although I'd be curious if anyone could tell me if it's used anywhere.
tropdrop 5y ago
It was strange the article focused so much on airport noise when there is another kind of noise pollution for city residents so much more widespread – ambulances/emergency vehicles. I've lived in San Francisco for awhile (and still come back to live there some of the time), and this is the thing that I notice increases my heart rate every time I come back. In SF, they're so loud! Even late in the evening! I didn't pay too much attention to it until my grandmother (living in a different and European country) was on the phone with me one day, and hearing the alarm from a fire truck comme ambulance, she asked – what is that highly disturbing noise? I thought about it and realized she was right. The wail was very disturbing and did make my heart beat faster when I heard it. I wish San Francisco lowered the noise of the ambulances later at night. The noise ricochets off the buildings so much that I wonder if we can't introduce legislation to make the vehicles automatically lower the volume of ambulance noise used when leaving the highway. I understand it needs to be that loud on a busy freeway or LA-esque (very wide) street, but in an alley in Chinatown? Can't we consider the heart palpitations of the residents subjected to it day in day out if they live near either a hospital or a fire department?
- brobinson 5y ago
  I wonder why they don't exclusively use the alternate low-band siren at night. I've heard it a few times in the Bay Area, but it was always in conjunction with the standard siren tone.
- spacemadness 5y ago
  I hate how loud the sirens are in SF. Absolutely obnoxious for how dense of a city it is and there is a complete lack of noise insulation in any housing there. It’s barbaric. However, I have to thank the fire department in my old neighborhood for waiting until they were blocks away from the station before turning on their sirens. So some people are mindful at least.
Beltalowda 5y ago
After months of being effectively homeless I moved in to a new place 3 weeks ago. There's this stupid air ventilation system making noise 24/7 and it's already driving me up the walls, and that's with the windows closed. It's like having a car idle outside your house all day and night. Because it's newly built I couldn't have a viewing; normally I would have just passed, but I was kinda desperate. Been trying to contact them about it for 3 weeks too. At this rate I'd rather lose the deposit than live here for a full year. Road noise a silent hum is fine, but constant "brrrr" is just ... ugh ...
- throwaway378037 5y ago
  With you there buddy. Moved into a place at short notice because I was desperate and squeezed, only to find it is next to the plumbing for the whole building’s heating system. 24/7 noise of radiator pipes and boiler running filling the apartment. And I have the same equation: fuck this shit, not worth it, they can keep my deposit
  - Beltalowda 5y ago
    It's almost €4000 though, so quite a lot :-/ Not the kind of money I can miss at the moment, but we'll see how things are in a few months, and/or if I can convince them to do some sort of deal (although usually these type of real estate types operate according to the Rules Of Acquisition; e.g. "one you have their money, don't give it back").
trutannus 5y ago
I found Iceland to be very quiet as well. Likely since there's so few people to make noise in the first place.
vmception 5y ago
One of my favorite privileges is renting in coveted neighborhoods or propertied for 10-30 days just to see what its really like A “tour” or walkthrough doesn't assist with this at all
pastaguy1 5y ago
This isn't exactly what you mean, but as someone who also has not a great reaction to that type of thing, i can't believe how accepted it's become to just fire up tiktok _anywhere_. I'm aware the internet and phones made noises before tiktok, but something about this app compels people to forget the sound-vironment is a shared space, it seems.
- calvinmorrison 5y ago
  I see you're not a connoisseur of socially-inept subway phone DJ's
bogomipz 5y ago
I feel like the proliferation of cheap and loud bluetooth speakers has contributed to the scourge of noise pollution significantly in the last two years. The parks are filled with them. People also seem to walk and bike around cities confident that everyone around them really wants to hear their music above all else. It's a truly bizarre and recent-ish phenomenon, and it's full-grown adults. I'm guessing the prices maybe hit a tipping point or the personal public soundtrack is now a statement? I'm at a loss for how to explain it.
- InCityDreams 5y ago
  Years ago when boom boxes were popular i remember someone saying "It doesn't matter how cool your music is, someone thinks you're a cunt". So true, still true.
SpicyLemonZest 5y ago
I don't know if it helps you, but as someone who's very annoyed by road noise, one thing I've found makes a huge difference is replacing the window stripping with as much and as thick foam as you can fit. Most apartments are built with thin stripping in the first place and routine maintenance almost never replaces it. The first time I did it, my apartment bedroom at the time went from the loudest I've ever had to the quietest I've ever had.
Sinidir 5y ago
My dream is to build some kind of app to actually give a resonable noise estimate of a place and warn against potential problems. I also struggle a lot with noise pollution. Shity neighbours, random building noises in the dead of night, Buses that accelerate right in front of my window at 6 in the morning, etc.
dt3ft 5y ago
I lived in Switzerland, Zurich for over 6 years and I hardly experienced the peace and quiet in this city. We had people (not a single person but entire packs of skaters) skating down our street at 2 am and that made a ton of noise. Stay away from Rigistrasse :)
patrickk 5y ago
Germany too. You can find noise maps[1] with measurements for all kinds of noise, including car noise, aircraft noise, industrial noise, etc. This allows you to make a more informed decision when renting or buying a new home. In the area around Frankfurt airport (FRA) there is ongoing noise monitoring[2] to make sure that the noise doesn't constantly exceed the agreed limits. The aircraft can only fly between 6am-11pm daily, in one of Europe's busiest airports. The local residents won a court case against the airport, so they are entitled to free triple-glazed windows, and a device installed into the wall to extract CO2-heavy air from the house interior (important for sealed off bedrooms). There are restrictions on noisy activities you can do at certain hours[3], such as hoovering your place, blasting your Hi-Fi or car stereo. Initially, I thought it was overly restrictive, but it's the best way of ensuring people can live densely and not go insane from inconsiderate neighbours. Finally, apartments are generally thick concrete walls with high-quality windows and doors, both interior and exterior. Interior doors are usually solid material, with a rubber-lined bezel creating an acoustic and thermal seal between the door and the frame. I wasn't used to that before moving to Germany, it's quite impressive and definitely improves your living quality in an apartment. [1] https://laerm.hessen.de/mapapps/resources/apps/laerm/index.html?lang=en https://laerm.hessen.de/mapapps/resources/apps/laerm/index.h... [2] https://www.fraport.com/en/environment/noise-abatement.html https://www.fraport.com/en/environment/noise-abatement.html [3] https://www.german-way.com/many-kinds-of-noise-vielerlei-laerm/ https://www.german-way.com/many-kinds-of-noise-vielerlei-lae...
- ricardobayes 5y ago
  Central Europe rocks. They are the best places for quality housing with tons of insulation and people are generally pretty respectful of each other.
- mft_ 5y ago
  Yep. A big road near us (2-3 lanes in each direction; also a major route into a large city) recently dropped from an 80km/h limit to 60km/h - and I understand the reason is noise pollution for nearby residents.
  - bombcar 5y ago
lemax 5y ago
Noise is also a big part of certain cultures/contexts though. Blanket rules around noise levels could be unfair if they don't provide a venue for noisey folks somewhere. In Brooklyn, for example, there are neighborhoods and entire buildings that revolve around loudness, inhabited by musicians, artists, and boisterous young people who stay up all hours. For example, in the McKibbin lofts in Bushwick, Brooklyn, like many buildings in the area, people are implicitly party to a social contract of accepting noise levels unacceptable to most people. If noise becomes more regulated, room must be kept for the nuances and exceptions that are culturally significant to smaller communities within larger cities. A lot of important cultural production comes out of these spaces.
- shados 5y ago
  Noise should be zoned like construction is (ok, probably better). Some cities have intricately designed noise ordinances that account for this, but most just have some kind of blanket "After 11pm no more than 50db". Sometimes they'll add "or 5db above ambient". At my previous place, the noise ordinance was the same if you lived in a residential neighborhood in the middle of nowhere, or in the bustling middle of a commercial district. In lieu of nuances, the city enforcers would just use their own opinions and discretion on enforcement, which generally left people unhappy on both side. Just have "loud" parts of town and "quiet" parts of town. Then people can live where it suits them. Enforce it appropriately (so if someone live in the loud part and bitch about noise, tell them to move. If someone is loud in the quiet part, fine the shit out of them). Though generally "quiet" areas get gentrified, and prices rise a lot, because they are far more in demand from people with more money (read: older and/or privileged), so I guess that wouldn't work so well.
vihren 5y ago
I have the same problem. I have recently moved to Switzerland and I am so grateful for the culture here. Noise is not tolerated, as it should be.
- Foobar8568 5y ago
  If only, it really depends where you live. We have an alarm going on any times during the day and night, police is not interested and agency doesn't care much. Same problem with skaters when it's sunny. No really, people just don't care. Swiss german might be different tho.
cjbgkagh 5y ago
Some people are more noise intolerant than others so normal people may not be as bothered by noise. I have a genetic mutation, a form of hEDS, which has a high degree of noise intolerance. It’s unfortunate for me that housing bubble has made it so expensive to buy and soundproof a place. I keep waiting for the market to deflate and it keeps not happening. Dogs are the worst for me. I don’t know how other people can sleep through that. Drives me nuts. I have thought seriously about moving to Switzerland.
seer 5y ago
I think you'll be very interested in the "Not Just Bikes" channel as he talks a lot about urban planing. There's a lot of political will and momentum for making living spaces ... livable in Europe. Places like The Netherlands and Denmark in particular. A video specifically about noise pollution and how European cities are trying to solve it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8
brainzap 5y ago
hearing decreases or changes with age (see story on children and handdryer)
sampo 5y ago
> Switzerland. A beautifully peaceful and quiet country. I visited a research institute in Garmish, Southern Germany. The building was next to a cow pasture, and all cows had really loud cowbells, constant noise even with windows closed. Does this happen in Switzerland, too?
bingohbangoh 5y ago
Lithuania is also spectacularly quiet
newbamboo 5y ago
“would have to deal with it for a year.” Who can afford to move every year with rent inflation at 25 yoy? Clearly you aren’t living in the gilded state with its luxurious rent control provisions.
throwaway378037 5y ago
For what it’s worth I empathise so deeply with you here. I have what I believe is referred to as sensory processing disorder, or hypersensitivity, but I would call normal and reasonable noise-caused stress. At my last address I struggled with helicopters hovering overhead all day. I just moved into a new place and have building plumbing running 24/7 next to my flat. Over time I’ve accustomed to wearing either NC headphones or earplugs every hour of the day, but it just upsets me so much to have to do that. Yet nobody takes it seriously and I’m considered ‘weird’, or told that I’ll ‘get used to it’. Well, I don’t. I’ve taken to using float tanks for occasional hours of total silence and I’m once again looking for a new place to live, and considering leaving to go live in a cabin in the woods or something..
hinkley 5y ago
We occasionally talk here about when it's appropriate to abort an interview cycle early, and the most recent anecdote I have is walking into a place with a ridiculously loud ventilation system that was bad enough that I could feel it affecting my ability to think. I ended up phoning in about half of that interview and felt guilty for wasting their time. Something I've noticed about real estate agents and especially leasing agents is that they tend to try to keep the conversation up, and in an empty house that can be a couple decibels louder than normal conversation. If you have a partner, take them with you and collude so that the more sensitive person can escape to the other end of the space and just listen. If you are single, take a friend who is 'helping you' house/apartment hunt and use them as a meat shield. Something I keep saying I'll do and never actually do is take a day off and just be in the neighborhood outside, because some places are quiet during business hours and a cacophony during rush hour or due to night life.

The_rationalist 5y ago

ggm 5y ago

When earbuds came on the market, Audiologists said "this is going to be a disaster in 20 years time" and guess what: tinnitus and high frequency hearing loss levels are through the roof. I think its to one side of your concern, but related: we truly don't socialize the needed guarding of our eardrums. It's a vicious cycle: unexpected mechanical noises stop us sleeping, leads to weight gain, diabetes, heart problems, high BP which in turn feeds tinnitus, hearing loss... I wake early for other reasons. Sunrise birdsong is lovely. But dump-truck and recycling truck noises are pretty clashy.

eliseumds 5y ago
Yep, I joined the tinnitus bandwagon in the beginning of the pandemic. I was locked up at home and neighbouring dogs wouldn't shut up all day, so I resorted to earplugs and here I am now. Surprisingly I met at least 5 other people with the same problem recently, and they were all told by doctors that it was due to stress and not earplugs/headphones. I call it BS.
- nanidin 5y ago
  Earplugs gave you tinnitus? Do you mean earbuds? Earplugs are typically hearing PPE.
  - eliseumds 5y ago
    I've done pretty much everything I could imagine to try to identify the root cause, no doctor could give a reasonable diagnosis. My tinnitus started after a night with earplugs, but it could have been a coincidence since I also used noise-cancelled Sony headphones. Who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - Zircom 5y ago
      Not to be rude but you ascribing an equal likelihood of causing tinnitus to one night of using earplugs(which BLOCK sound from your ears) vs presumably regular/sustained use of noise cancelling headphones(which BLAST sound into your ears) borders on ridiculousness and make me think you're just trolling..
      - Izkata 5y ago
        Earplugs go into the ear similar to earbuds, but are squishy and meant to be rolled thin so you can get them in a bit further (then they decompress halfway inside your ear and fill in the gaps). If you push them in too far I imagine they can damage the eardrum, which could cause tinnitus. After trying earplugs myself a few months ago, I decided it was too risky to sleep with them due to the pressure I felt in my ear (the one against the pillow) when I lay on my side.
        AngryData 5y ago
        You would have to push your ear plugs in so far that you couldn't take them out to get anywhere near the eardrum though.
      - Panoramix 5y ago
        My tinnitus started after a night out with earplugs. Basically the earplugs pushed wax buildup deep into my eardrum. It took quite a while to remove that wax, and while that improved things a lot, the tinnitus stayed after that.
- helloooooooo 5y ago
  I got pretty bad tinnitus due to stress induced bruxism. Identifying the source of the stress that caused it was difficult, but it turned out it was video games! So I stopped playing them so much, and the tinnitus went away
- dylan604 5y ago
  Of all of the years as a DJ using headphones in loud settings, all of the concerts, all of the events with loud amplified sound systems, etc, I was able to avoid tinnitus. It wasn't until I was driving and was t-boned in my side of the car with a side impact airbag going off. I walked away from the car with nothing more than a few scratches from flying glass, this lovely ringing in the ear, and this lousy t-shirt.
  - sebow 5y ago
    As a concert attender I probably recall the event that was the most likely cause which gave me tinnitus. It was an EDM concert where the front speakers sounded very 'rough' and also the stupid decision on my (& my friends) part to stay as close in the front as possible, for more than 1 hour. I think close impacts from airwaves (crashes, staying close to speakers, etc) are the most popular cause, as listening 'responsibly' on headphones did not gave me tinnitus before, nor did my usual edm concert attendance (excepting obviously the following couple of days). The eardrum can recover but once it's been 'cracked' remedies are very rare (if they exist at all, haven't researched).
Swizec 5y ago
> When earbuds came on the market I switched to active noise cancelling headphones and earbuds several years ago (2015-ish) primarily because they enable me to keep volume at like 20% and still get the benefits of sound isolation. It's been a huge revolution for me personally. Running for 2 hours used to give me an ear-ache. Now it's perfect. The improvement in comfort from music-at-the-office is even bigger. 8 hours was a lot and sound isolation is really important to me. I can't focus if I can hear other humans and eating noises make me wanna punch people.
- hiptobecubic 5y ago
  I hope you aren't running with ear plugs and noise cancelling headphones or have some dedicated safe place to run.
  - Swizec 5y ago
    I’ve tested and thanks to the low volume I can hear more than I did with normal earbuds. Noise cancelling is great at blocking out constant sounds like wind and background traffic, but it doesn’t do much for acute noises like horns, nearby cars, bicycle bells, or people talking/shouting. With regular earbuds they were cranked up to 80% to block out the wind so I couldn’t hear any of the acute sounds I can hear with noise canceling and volume at 20%. Funfact: I ride my motorcycle with actual earplugs. The wind noise at 80mph causes permanent damage after 15min. You hear more of the important stuff with earplugs because they block the wind.
    - rangersanger 5y ago
      What headphones are you using? I’m training for a marathon and it’d probably be wise for me to turn down the volume a bit but running with my bose closed backs sounds miserable
      - Swizec 5y ago
        AirPods Pro have worked best of everything I’ve tried
Buttons840 5y ago
*/5 * * * * osascript -e 'set volume output volume (output volume of (get volume settings))-1' Speaking of tinnitus, and since this is Hacker News: I've entered the above in crontab (crontab -e) on my mac. It lowers the volume a small amount every 5 minutes. I have to press the volume up button once every 30 minutes to keep a roughly equal volume level. This prevents me from accidentally listening to something that is too loud for too long. At the level I usually listen to music, it takes about 2 hours to fade to nothing; it's a linear fade, so after 30 minutes the volume is at 75% my preferred starting volume. If I get lost in my work, the music gradually fades and I avoid realizing many hours later that I've been blasting my ears the whole time. I wish all devices had a mode like this. I haven't investigated how to do this on Linux, but it should be possible there as well I think.
- nicolas_t 5y ago
  Thanks for this. Really great idea! I normally don't set my headphones that loud but it's happened that I raised the volume during a meeting because someone was talking too quietly and forgot to lower it.
  - Buttons840 5y ago
    Another nice bonus is that if you're listening to a song at room filling volume during the day, and then later at night you want to quietly watch a video, by then the volume will have decayed to zero so you wont be surprised with a really loud video.
- dylan604 5y ago
  seems like it'd be better served to have some sort of limit on how loud the volume on a device can be set. maybe in the system preferences set MAX = 75%, but in Finder allow the volume to be set at 100% in the UI but the system keeping it limited. make this a per Output setting so when you switch back to Built-in or other external device it is not limited to anything but your buds.
  - grapeskin 5y ago
noahtallen 5y ago
Super true. Go to any modern concert, or even most movie theaters, and much of the experience will be well over 80, and even 90db. This is frankly unacceptable. Even the supposedly good standards for audio engineering (Dolby atoms and IMAX) — which specifically make sure theaters are following the spec — are over 90db. A wedding DJ had the music at over 90db in a small venue recently. The last concert I went to, which had good audio engineers, was over 90db for nearly the whole thing. My theory is that audio engineers are mixing live venues after already having hearing loss, thus normalizing hearing damage for everyone else as well. I strongly believe regulation is needed to combat these problems. Firstly, a venue should not be allowed to damage one’s hearing with loud speakers. I think it’d be reasonable to require nearly all of any auditory experience to be under 80db. Secondly, city noise pollution is a huge health problem as well. Most of it comes from car tire noise or strangely loud engines (like Harleys), so preventing that should be a priority. Walk along the waterfront in any city, and the overwhelming audio source is the white noise of car tires on the uncovered freeways. It’s hard to imagine how wonderful these places could be if those sounds were much more muted. I have no problem if you want to have fun with a loud thing, but do it out in the middle of nowhere! Like any kind of pollution, we have a right to live without others negatively affecting us. I think law has not really caught up in these areas of human rights.
- bombcar 5y ago
  OSHA requires mitigation above 85 db, and yet there aren't anything mentioning it on venues. https://www.osha.gov/noise https://www.osha.gov/noise It's understandable that a movie or song might WANT to get loud at a particular time, but squashing everything to max is not the way to go.
- bradstewart 5y ago
  It's absolutely wild how loud modern sound systems get, even relatively small ones. I even bring earplugs to weddings at this point because the band is so incredibly loud (out of the amplified speakers).

nicolas_t 5y ago

I've learned the hard way to be very careful about noise when visiting apartments, so I'll try to ask other residents of the building I'm interested in and will do multiple visits at different time of the day to better understand how the noise situation is. Especially important now that I live in Hong Kong where a lot of apartments don't even use double pane windows.

drstewart 5y ago
That'd be ideal, but in some markets that's not possible. One of the apartments in question was in SF and I literally had to put my application in <10 minutes into the showing to get the place, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten it. There's no way to do any kind of actual inspection of a unit in those circumstances.
- nicolas_t 5y ago
  It's a bit similar in HK, what we do though is research the different buildings a few months before our lease is over. That allows us to visit units in those buildings without being pressured to make an offer and once we're seriously looking we have a much better idea of the market.
  - angled 5y ago
    In HK, the further south you go the better it seems to be… bar TST of course! I agree about the lack of double glazing here, if we ever buy, that will be one of the first things I’d try to change. I imagine Penny’s Bay is quiet!
    - nicolas_t 5y ago
      Yes, we moved to Tai Hang which is quite nice in terms of noise (much much better than Kennedy Town where we used to live). We actually get bird chirping at night and early mornings and barely any traffic noise.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

shados 5y ago

Not only do people not care, they actively push down and belittle people who do. They'll say it's just something that's notmaly and anyone trying to change it should move. Most source of noise pollution wouldnt be that hard to fix. Society just doesn't want to.

throw__away7391 5y ago
It's because almost all the noise in the modern world is caused by cars and motorcycles, and in the United States are prioritized over all other life forms.
- Gigachad 5y ago
  Imo it should become regulation that all cars have to have some audio transparency tech like headphones have. Then we would be able to lower the volume of emergency sirens which are obscenely loud to penetrate cars.
  - ben-schaaf 5y ago
    Massively reducing car usage is a much better solution with much more wide-spread benefits.
    - Gigachad 5y ago
      That as well. But it does feel very wrong that combustion engine users can emit huge amounts of noise and pollution while sitting in sound proof, HEPA filtered boxes.
      - jeffbee 5y ago
        The horn on automobiles should be mounted inside the cabin. They can make it as loud as they need to make it, but the person who hears it the loudest should be the driver.
        5y ago

ne0flex 5y ago

On a somewhat related note, I've been living in NYC for the past 7 years or so. I noticed that whenever I go to visit my parents house in Canada, the lack of noise kind of stresses me out. The first few nights when I try to sleep, it's just too quiet and something feels weird.

ghotli 5y ago

Sometimes out of a similar desire I will wear noise cancelling earbuds inside of noise cancelling over the ear headphones. No music no sound, pure silence. Obviously not a cheap solution but doubling up is better than any earplugs I've ever used.

jamiek88 5y ago
I’ve thought about this, does it actually work? I worried there would be weird feedback issues.
- trentgreene 5y ago
  Works great for me, also see wearing ear plugs inside of noise cancelling head phones
  - quantum_magpie 5y ago
    That's my airplane remedy!
lkbm 5y ago
The first time I tried my friend's hearing protection for shooting I was absolutely amazed. I've always gone to headphones built for listening, with the noise cancellation a secondary consideration. Professional grade heading protection is really good. (MPOW HP102A is the only brand/model I personally know, but I suspect if you ask people who hunt, they'll have good recs. A quick Google search finds things with higher "Noise Reduction Rating" ratings.) For sleeping, I used the Bose QuietComfort for a long time. I'm a side-sleeper, so large headphones were a challenge.
everybodyknows 5y ago
For a cheap (and zero maintenance) solution, double up plugs inside a pair of hardware store "leaf blower" headphones. Very effective, no dead-battery surprises.

Gigachad 5y ago

I wish we would take car caused health impacts as serious as we did covid. We have a never ending stream of research and yet no one cares. We can’t even take action against modded motorbikes and cars which damage peoples health for zero functional gain.

sooheon 5y ago
Humans fear novelty more than actual danger itself. This is also why nuclear consistently fails to gain traction while fossil fuels continue the status quo of killing millions.
dylan604 5y ago
I wish we'd turn into something positve the data learned when the world shut down for a few weeks in 2020 to see how clear the air got, how quiet the neighborhoods got, how still the ground got all from the massive amounts of cars not being used.
Synaesthesia 5y ago
Maybe we should have a system which looks at human needs first and tries to address them, rather than as a side effect of making profit.
goodpoint 5y ago
> as serious as we did covid Is that sarcasm? Human society utterly failed at handling Covid.
m0llusk 5y ago
And there have been proposals to make electric cars produce engine noises for safety. It makes sense to consider this, but making loud warning noises seems like a huge problem. This also comes up with back up beepers and garage exit activity warning buzzers.
- pandemicsoul 5y ago
  God that shit infuriates me. I used to live downtown in a city and only realized after moving into my apartment that I was close enough to hear a crosswalk beeper nearby. Now, I know that it needs to be there for blind accessibility, but I'll never understand why it needed to beep EVERY cycle (basically every minute it would beep for 30 seconds) instead of just when someone pushed the button. It's like, how did no one who set this thing up think about all the people living nearby who'd have to listen to this incessant beeping from 6am to 10pm???

seattle_spring 5y ago

People are so unbelievably disrespectful with noise in the US. Peaceful hike? Here's Katy Perry crackling out of my iPhone at full blast! Luxury apartment at $4k a month? No insulation between units, and the guy above you comes home at 2am and never takes his shoes off. Small country street? Here comes Chad with his straight-piped civic with the muffler removed!

gotaquestion 5y ago
Want to go to the beach? Well here's Toby Keith on your left, Christian Radio on your right, Mariachi in front of you, and Ye behind you. I want all beaches to be public, but then I hate public beaches. meirl.
gonehome 5y ago
I find by far the biggest disruption in US suburbs is lawn equipment. Suburbs are louder than cities imo because there is always a leaf blower, lawn mower, and weedwacker going at all times during the day within 100 yards of you. Often for hours. Moving from Palo Alto to SF things got way quieter.
- Forgeties79 5y ago
  It drives me absolutely insane. I can’t record audio virtually anywhere unless I treat the hell out of the room. I shouldn’t have to turn my room into a soundproof bunker to be able to record some voiceovers. It’s ridiculous. My previous home office had spray foam insulation with double layer sheet rock and bass traps on the walls, yet I still had to have a small homemade box around the microphone when I was doing any sort of voice work that wasn’t more informal.
  - gonehome 5y ago
    Yeah - the joke is people say they move to suburbs to get 'peace and quiet' compared to a loud city, but city life is so much quieter (at least where I live). I'm sure that's not always the case, but I really hated the lawn equipment. Sure in a city a loud motorcycle may go by, but that's like 10 seconds of noise? Compared to a revving leaf blower for an hour (and usually there are a bunch of them going). They're even banned in Palo Alto, but it's not enforced.

Karrot_Kream 5y ago

It all comes back to code. Noise abatement materials are not part of most residential building codes in the US because most residential buildings are expected to be single family homes with detached lots. If you don't live in that situation then tough luck. Very little effort is spent politically trying to improve quality of life in any other form of domicile. Concretely I suggest reaching out to your city council and trying to push for using more noise abating materials in code depending on the classification of residence (e.g. for dense residential.) My partner and I live in a condo run by an HOA and noise abatement material (underflooring, between walls, etc) up to certain spec is mandated by our HOA. We only hear our neighbors when they're having drywall work done in the home.

vegetablepotpie 5y ago
Calling city council sounds simple. I will say that if you want to get anywhere with local policy, you either need to have money, or lots of people asking for your policy. Both of those things come from organizing, which is a months to years long effort. That’s what you’re signing up for when you want to change laws. You may get better mileage hiring a contractor, if you own a home, or talking to your property manager if you rent for upgrades to your dwelling.

bigDinosaur 5y ago

It's also possible to surface roads such that cars on them are significantly quieter. This is more expensive, but you'd think it'd be done in at least some places in North American style cities. To my knowledge it really is not, although I'd be curious if anyone could tell me if it's used anywhere.

tropdrop 5y ago

It was strange the article focused so much on airport noise when there is another kind of noise pollution for city residents so much more widespread – ambulances/emergency vehicles. I've lived in San Francisco for awhile (and still come back to live there some of the time), and this is the thing that I notice increases my heart rate every time I come back. In SF, they're so loud! Even late in the evening! I didn't pay too much attention to it until my grandmother (living in a different and European country) was on the phone with me one day, and hearing the alarm from a fire truck comme ambulance, she asked – what is that highly disturbing noise? I thought about it and realized she was right. The wail was very disturbing and did make my heart beat faster when I heard it. I wish San Francisco lowered the noise of the ambulances later at night. The noise ricochets off the buildings so much that I wonder if we can't introduce legislation to make the vehicles automatically lower the volume of ambulance noise used when leaving the highway. I understand it needs to be that loud on a busy freeway or LA-esque (very wide) street, but in an alley in Chinatown? Can't we consider the heart palpitations of the residents subjected to it day in day out if they live near either a hospital or a fire department?

brobinson 5y ago
I wonder why they don't exclusively use the alternate low-band siren at night. I've heard it a few times in the Bay Area, but it was always in conjunction with the standard siren tone.
spacemadness 5y ago
I hate how loud the sirens are in SF. Absolutely obnoxious for how dense of a city it is and there is a complete lack of noise insulation in any housing there. It’s barbaric. However, I have to thank the fire department in my old neighborhood for waiting until they were blocks away from the station before turning on their sirens. So some people are mindful at least.

Beltalowda 5y ago

After months of being effectively homeless I moved in to a new place 3 weeks ago. There's this stupid air ventilation system making noise 24/7 and it's already driving me up the walls, and that's with the windows closed. It's like having a car idle outside your house all day and night. Because it's newly built I couldn't have a viewing; normally I would have just passed, but I was kinda desperate. Been trying to contact them about it for 3 weeks too. At this rate I'd rather lose the deposit than live here for a full year. Road noise a silent hum is fine, but constant "brrrr" is just ... ugh ...

throwaway378037 5y ago
With you there buddy. Moved into a place at short notice because I was desperate and squeezed, only to find it is next to the plumbing for the whole building’s heating system. 24/7 noise of radiator pipes and boiler running filling the apartment. And I have the same equation: fuck this shit, not worth it, they can keep my deposit
- Beltalowda 5y ago
  It's almost €4000 though, so quite a lot :-/ Not the kind of money I can miss at the moment, but we'll see how things are in a few months, and/or if I can convince them to do some sort of deal (although usually these type of real estate types operate according to the Rules Of Acquisition; e.g. "one you have their money, don't give it back").

trutannus 5y ago

I found Iceland to be very quiet as well. Likely since there's so few people to make noise in the first place.

vmception 5y ago

One of my favorite privileges is renting in coveted neighborhoods or propertied for 10-30 days just to see what its really like A “tour” or walkthrough doesn't assist with this at all

pastaguy1 5y ago

This isn't exactly what you mean, but as someone who also has not a great reaction to that type of thing, i can't believe how accepted it's become to just fire up tiktok _anywhere_. I'm aware the internet and phones made noises before tiktok, but something about this app compels people to forget the sound-vironment is a shared space, it seems.

calvinmorrison 5y ago
I see you're not a connoisseur of socially-inept subway phone DJ's

bogomipz 5y ago

I feel like the proliferation of cheap and loud bluetooth speakers has contributed to the scourge of noise pollution significantly in the last two years. The parks are filled with them. People also seem to walk and bike around cities confident that everyone around them really wants to hear their music above all else. It's a truly bizarre and recent-ish phenomenon, and it's full-grown adults. I'm guessing the prices maybe hit a tipping point or the personal public soundtrack is now a statement? I'm at a loss for how to explain it.

InCityDreams 5y ago
Years ago when boom boxes were popular i remember someone saying "It doesn't matter how cool your music is, someone thinks you're a cunt". So true, still true.

SpicyLemonZest 5y ago

I don't know if it helps you, but as someone who's very annoyed by road noise, one thing I've found makes a huge difference is replacing the window stripping with as much and as thick foam as you can fit. Most apartments are built with thin stripping in the first place and routine maintenance almost never replaces it. The first time I did it, my apartment bedroom at the time went from the loudest I've ever had to the quietest I've ever had.

Sinidir 5y ago

My dream is to build some kind of app to actually give a resonable noise estimate of a place and warn against potential problems. I also struggle a lot with noise pollution. Shity neighbours, random building noises in the dead of night, Buses that accelerate right in front of my window at 6 in the morning, etc.

dt3ft 5y ago

I lived in Switzerland, Zurich for over 6 years and I hardly experienced the peace and quiet in this city. We had people (not a single person but entire packs of skaters) skating down our street at 2 am and that made a ton of noise. Stay away from Rigistrasse :)

patrickk 5y ago

Germany too. You can find noise maps[1] with measurements for all kinds of noise, including car noise, aircraft noise, industrial noise, etc. This allows you to make a more informed decision when renting or buying a new home. In the area around Frankfurt airport (FRA) there is ongoing noise monitoring[2] to make sure that the noise doesn't constantly exceed the agreed limits. The aircraft can only fly between 6am-11pm daily, in one of Europe's busiest airports. The local residents won a court case against the airport, so they are entitled to free triple-glazed windows, and a device installed into the wall to extract CO2-heavy air from the house interior (important for sealed off bedrooms). There are restrictions on noisy activities you can do at certain hours[3], such as hoovering your place, blasting your Hi-Fi or car stereo. Initially, I thought it was overly restrictive, but it's the best way of ensuring people can live densely and not go insane from inconsiderate neighbours. Finally, apartments are generally thick concrete walls with high-quality windows and doors, both interior and exterior. Interior doors are usually solid material, with a rubber-lined bezel creating an acoustic and thermal seal between the door and the frame. I wasn't used to that before moving to Germany, it's quite impressive and definitely improves your living quality in an apartment. [1] https://laerm.hessen.de/mapapps/resources/apps/laerm/index.html?lang=en https://laerm.hessen.de/mapapps/resources/apps/laerm/index.h... [2] https://www.fraport.com/en/environment/noise-abatement.html https://www.fraport.com/en/environment/noise-abatement.html [3] https://www.german-way.com/many-kinds-of-noise-vielerlei-laerm/ https://www.german-way.com/many-kinds-of-noise-vielerlei-lae...

ricardobayes 5y ago
Central Europe rocks. They are the best places for quality housing with tons of insulation and people are generally pretty respectful of each other.
mft_ 5y ago
Yep. A big road near us (2-3 lanes in each direction; also a major route into a large city) recently dropped from an 80km/h limit to 60km/h - and I understand the reason is noise pollution for nearby residents.
- bombcar 5y ago

lemax 5y ago

Noise is also a big part of certain cultures/contexts though. Blanket rules around noise levels could be unfair if they don't provide a venue for noisey folks somewhere. In Brooklyn, for example, there are neighborhoods and entire buildings that revolve around loudness, inhabited by musicians, artists, and boisterous young people who stay up all hours. For example, in the McKibbin lofts in Bushwick, Brooklyn, like many buildings in the area, people are implicitly party to a social contract of accepting noise levels unacceptable to most people. If noise becomes more regulated, room must be kept for the nuances and exceptions that are culturally significant to smaller communities within larger cities. A lot of important cultural production comes out of these spaces.

shados 5y ago
Noise should be zoned like construction is (ok, probably better). Some cities have intricately designed noise ordinances that account for this, but most just have some kind of blanket "After 11pm no more than 50db". Sometimes they'll add "or 5db above ambient". At my previous place, the noise ordinance was the same if you lived in a residential neighborhood in the middle of nowhere, or in the bustling middle of a commercial district. In lieu of nuances, the city enforcers would just use their own opinions and discretion on enforcement, which generally left people unhappy on both side. Just have "loud" parts of town and "quiet" parts of town. Then people can live where it suits them. Enforce it appropriately (so if someone live in the loud part and bitch about noise, tell them to move. If someone is loud in the quiet part, fine the shit out of them). Though generally "quiet" areas get gentrified, and prices rise a lot, because they are far more in demand from people with more money (read: older and/or privileged), so I guess that wouldn't work so well.

vihren 5y ago

I have the same problem. I have recently moved to Switzerland and I am so grateful for the culture here. Noise is not tolerated, as it should be.

Foobar8568 5y ago
If only, it really depends where you live. We have an alarm going on any times during the day and night, police is not interested and agency doesn't care much. Same problem with skaters when it's sunny. No really, people just don't care. Swiss german might be different tho.

cjbgkagh 5y ago

Some people are more noise intolerant than others so normal people may not be as bothered by noise. I have a genetic mutation, a form of hEDS, which has a high degree of noise intolerance. It’s unfortunate for me that housing bubble has made it so expensive to buy and soundproof a place. I keep waiting for the market to deflate and it keeps not happening. Dogs are the worst for me. I don’t know how other people can sleep through that. Drives me nuts. I have thought seriously about moving to Switzerland.

seer 5y ago

I think you'll be very interested in the "Not Just Bikes" channel as he talks a lot about urban planing. There's a lot of political will and momentum for making living spaces ... livable in Europe. Places like The Netherlands and Denmark in particular. A video specifically about noise pollution and how European cities are trying to solve it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8

brainzap 5y ago

hearing decreases or changes with age (see story on children and handdryer)

sampo 5y ago

> Switzerland. A beautifully peaceful and quiet country. I visited a research institute in Garmish, Southern Germany. The building was next to a cow pasture, and all cows had really loud cowbells, constant noise even with windows closed. Does this happen in Switzerland, too?

bingohbangoh 5y ago

Lithuania is also spectacularly quiet

newbamboo 5y ago

“would have to deal with it for a year.” Who can afford to move every year with rent inflation at 25 yoy? Clearly you aren’t living in the gilded state with its luxurious rent control provisions.

throwaway378037 5y ago

For what it’s worth I empathise so deeply with you here. I have what I believe is referred to as sensory processing disorder, or hypersensitivity, but I would call normal and reasonable noise-caused stress. At my last address I struggled with helicopters hovering overhead all day. I just moved into a new place and have building plumbing running 24/7 next to my flat. Over time I’ve accustomed to wearing either NC headphones or earplugs every hour of the day, but it just upsets me so much to have to do that. Yet nobody takes it seriously and I’m considered ‘weird’, or told that I’ll ‘get used to it’. Well, I don’t. I’ve taken to using float tanks for occasional hours of total silence and I’m once again looking for a new place to live, and considering leaving to go live in a cabin in the woods or something..

hinkley 5y ago

We occasionally talk here about when it's appropriate to abort an interview cycle early, and the most recent anecdote I have is walking into a place with a ridiculously loud ventilation system that was bad enough that I could feel it affecting my ability to think. I ended up phoning in about half of that interview and felt guilty for wasting their time. Something I've noticed about real estate agents and especially leasing agents is that they tend to try to keep the conversation up, and in an empty house that can be a couple decibels louder than normal conversation. If you have a partner, take them with you and collude so that the more sensitive person can escape to the other end of the space and just listen. If you are single, take a friend who is 'helping you' house/apartment hunt and use them as a meat shield. Something I keep saying I'll do and never actually do is take a day off and just be in the neighborhood outside, because some places are quiet during business hours and a cacophony during rush hour or due to night life.