14 ms·
Brutal OS reached milestone 4
- dec0dedab0de 5y agoWhat is that hardware in the cover image? Is it even real?
- p_l 5y agoIt was a design study from Soviet Union in I think 1980s, but no real hardware got built.
- taspeotis 5y agoIn most modern browsers you can right click an image and send it to Google to reverse image search it for you. https://www.reddit.com/r/DesignPorn/comments/ei1pa8/sphinx_soviet_computer_prototype_designed_by/ https://www.reddit.com/r/DesignPorn/comments/ei1pa8/sphinx_s... https://kbd.news/Project-Sphinx-711.html https://kbd.news/Project-Sphinx-711.html
- amelius 5y agoIt looks cool but the keyboard is almost square, making it difficult to touch the keys in the top row while still resting your hands. A flat aspect ratio (like most keyboards have) would be better. It's easier to move your fingers over large distances horizontally than vertically; see also the piano keyboard.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- 0des 5y ago
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y agoErgonomics are important, and ignoring or powering through something that can injure you is a poor choice.
- 0des 5y agoYou know what you're doing right now. Stop it. We are not dainty wristed aliens yet. I love velcro shoes and elastic waistbands as much as the next guy, but this is bordering on comedy. How do you people lift a coffee cup with a straight face while saying this type of stuff?
- neurotrace 5y agoYou're right. Lifting a coffee cup with poor ergonomics isn't going to cause any injuries. Typing for hundreds of hours over many years in a poor position can lead to problems such as RSI.
- HailTheGreenOne 5y agoClearly you have never actually earned money by typing.
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago> You know what you're doing right now. Stop it. I'm raising valid disagreement in good faith. I don't think I will. > We are not dainty wristed aliens yet. I love velcro shoes and elastic waistbands as much as the next guy, but this is bordering on comedy. How do you people lift a coffee cup with a straight face while saying this type of stuff? While I'm glad your massive hulk wrists are totally immune to RSI, the rest of us mere mortals have to deal with ergonomic issues if we spend any significant time on a keyboard. It's not a matter of strength; lifting a coffee cup once is fine, lifting it a thousand times a day at increasingly awkward angles is a lovely recipe for injury.
- 7xhonks 5y agovv cool! I got it to build and run except I couldnt get the mouse to move, but still seems very neat. Hope I can try contributing a bit!
- monax 5y agoPrevious milestones: 1: https://brutal.smnx.sh/articles/milestone-1 https://brutal.smnx.sh/articles/milestone-1 2: https://brutal.smnx.sh/articles/milestone-2 https://brutal.smnx.sh/articles/milestone-2 3: https://brutal.smnx.sh/articles/milestone-3 https://brutal.smnx.sh/articles/milestone-3
- kome 5y agoI don't know why, but I love everything about it. And I just discovered it.
- monax 5y agoGlad you like it :)
- tangus 5y agoI wonder if January 11 was a Thuesday or a Thuersday...
- dark-star 5y agoA Thuersday, obviously... They're not only redesigning the OS, they're also redesigning the calendar (and font kerning too, it seems)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ianai 5y agoIt’s not UNIX but it “is” UNIX? That’s kind of all I got out of the about. Glad to see new OS design in 2022!
- monax 5y agoThe idea is to take all the concepts we like about UNIX and iterate on them. It's UNIX as if it was invented now. For example, let's have a C compiler but let's add lambda and a more complete type system. Or let's have a shell, but let's have full ide like autocomplete to it. Or instead of plain text, let's use JSON
- ianai 5y agoSick. How far along is it? Any chance of bringing in Plan9 type ideas/concepts? Ie being able to mount remote compute resources similar to mounting file systems in UNIX? (As the one real plan9-ism in mind at the moment.)
- monax 5y agoWe are still early in development; it still lacks proper filesystem and networking support
- humanrebar 5y agoA language like C but with lambdas isn't really C, not that that's a bad thing. I was a little surprised that a compiler was in scope given the amount of other work that needed to be written and (hopefully) supported, though I guess that's a different issue.
- PolCPP 5y agoThat kerning on that "hello world" vector font demo though
- monax 5y agoYeah kerning is still WIP
- rwmj 5y agoHonestly the amount of crazy code involved in Linux font rendering[1], and then you get to CJKV support[2], it's mind-boggling. Even then, it's nowhere near as good as macOS :-/ [1] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/pango https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/pango & https://github.com/harfbuzz/harfbuzz https://github.com/harfbuzz/harfbuzz [2] https://www.amazon.co.uk/CJKV-Information-Processing-Ken-Lunde/dp/1565922247 https://www.amazon.co.uk/CJKV-Information-Processing-Ken-Lun...
- 1MachineElf 5y agoIf it had kerning, then would it still be brutalist?
- smilespray 5y agoIn this case, keming is a more appropriate term.
- 5y ago
- ricardobeat 5y agoThe OS looks quite interesting, but the GUI library caught my attention - hope there are plans to make it available separately.
- mysterydip 5y agoThey said it runs on macOS and linux, so I would assume so
- supercyp 5y agoThe gui library is able to be used on Linux. But For the moment we can’t do hardware acceleration (but it is still really fast without it).
- encryptluks2 5y agoAre you planning on supporting Vulkan?
- konart 5y agoThat Soviet PC though... Shame we'll never see it.
- mywacaday 5y agoWhat is it, thought it was a render?
- El_RIDO 5y agoThat's Project SPHINX: https://www.inexhibit.com/case-studies/project-sphinx-when-the-ussr-tried-to-change-the-computer/ https://www.inexhibit.com/case-studies/project-sphinx-when-t...
- rsecora 5y agoSoviet computer: https://www.inexhibit.com/case-studies/project-sphinx-when-the-ussr-tried-to-change-the-computer/ https://www.inexhibit.com/case-studies/project-sphinx-when-t...
- sylware 5y agoWhere is their "brutal toolchain" (not GNU, not LLVM) able to bootstrap build their OS from kernel to user space? (sarcasm). I wish they prove me wrong.
- monax 5y agoWorking on it https://github.com/brutal-org/brutal/tree/main/sources/libs/cc https://github.com/brutal-org/brutal/tree/main/sources/libs/... It as already has some neat feature like C2json
- sylware 5y agoThey are doing it the right way. But we should not get ahead of ourselves, let's wait for them to fully self-bootstrap 'brutal' with their toolchain.
- 0des 5y agoVery cool project, and i want that hardware badly... But... Please add some margin on your article before someone gets hurt
- monax 5y agoThanks, I'm fixing it asap
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- NoGravitas 5y agoI believe that is a Soviet Project SPHINX system - a design for a smart home network that never actually got produced due to the fall of the Soviet Union. https://blog.adafruit.com/2021/12/13/project-sphinx-when-the-ussr-tried-to-change-the-personal-computer-forever-vintagecomputing-design/ https://blog.adafruit.com/2021/12/13/project-sphinx-when-the...
- 0des 5y agoEven if it only involves stuffing a raspberry pi into something, I want to yell at someone over the phone from my penthouse office in front of that thing while 80s power-montage music plays.
- eternityforest 5y agoThat's amazing! I didn't even know displays like that existed at the time. I wonder where we would be now if that had gone according to plan.
- Brian_K_White 5y agoI love this.
- einpoklum 5y ago> BRUTAL is an operating system built from scratch in modern C. Modern as in C11? > BRUTAL is built on top of a capabilty based micro-kernel. Their own, or somebody else's? Why can't they just say which? > BRUTAL targets x86_64, i686, RISC-V and ARM. Ok, a decent set of targets, certainly for starting out with. > BRUTAL exposes its features to developers through clean APIs. Which are listed where? > BRUTAL features a rich and modern C library complete with fibers, custom allocators, generic data structures, and more... Did they reimplement the entire C library? Added a backed/port for an existing library? I like Brutalism in design, don't like Minimalism in documentation. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=brutalism&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=brutalism&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=im...
- monax 5y agoHi, Sorry if our doc is not fully fleshed out yet, the project is still in the early stages, and APIs and idioms keep changing rapidly. > Modern as in C11? As in bleeding-edge C23 > Their own, or somebody else's? Why can't they just say which? Our own > Which are listed where? We have a Doxygen doc but it's not published yet. > Did they reimplement the entire C library? Yes Hopes this answers your questions
- ianai 5y agoThis is really awesome. I'll definitely be following the development of this OS! You figure you'll keep with the bleeding edge C standards for the future? Also, if someone wanted to build compatibility layers out to other FOSS OSes into the system somewhere would that be tolerated? For example drivers from other OSes could massively improve quality of life and usability.
- einpoklum 5y agoThanks for the prompt response and +1 for me. But... why spell this out _here_? Add that info to your documentation. For a new OS to be adopted, good documentation is probably even more important than good performance :-P > As in bleeding-edge C23 Well... looking at what's coming C23: https://en.cppreference.com/w/c/23 https://en.cppreference.com/w/c/23 I see mostly syntactic sugar and a few adoptions from POSIX; and C17 didn't change much either. So, for me, this is basically C11 - which I still find very modern and does not seem that widely adopted TBH. So good on you. (But make sure to support code in older C standard versions.) Also, I doubt that it is really a good idea to reimplement libc. I would assume taking on even more work than the already huge effort that is an OS would either slow you down or reduce quality. IIRC, when Linux got started, Torvalds ported gcc along with glibc and also bash. Could you explain your choice of a different direction?
- nyx_land 5y agoIt's cool and all that there seem to be more alternative OSes gaining momentum recently with things like this and SerenityOS and it's definitely impressive how much work people have put into them, but I can't for the life of me understand why you would go through the massive task of trying to make your own OS and then just copy Unix. These are 60 year old ideas that were largely born out of hardware constraints -- we have the ability to experiment with different design ideas now.
- ianai 5y agoThere's a lot to be said for ideas which hit it so "on the nail" in the IT world that they manage to stick around for so many decades. An alternative take, too, could be basing an OS on bleeding edge C23 and new releases into the future should act as something of a modern baseline of the UNIX standard. That could be used as a starting point or comparison for future OS development. Or, perhaps at worst, it probably makes the developers very aware of how the current *nix flavors could be improved from the lowest levels on up.
- 0235005 5y agoIs there a discord server or where does community gathers? This projects seems really cool and I would like to contribute.
- monax 5y agoyes :) https://discord.com/invite/gamGsfg https://discord.com/invite/gamGsfg
- systemvoltage 5y agoNot Brutal enough. We have rounded corners in the UI.