14 ms·

Some good books on the general topic that I've read over the years are Debt: The First 5000 Years by Graeber: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5

Some good books on the general topic that I've read over the years are Debt: The First 5000 Years by Graeber: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years Money: The True Story of a Made-Up Thing by Goldstein (also of NPR's Planet Money): * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50358103-money https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50358103-money * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Goldstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Goldstein And The Power of Gold: The History of an Obsession by Bernstein: > In this exciting book, the late Peter L. Bernstein tells the story of history's most coveted, celebrated, and inglorious asset: gold. From the ancient fascinations of Moses and Midas through the modern convulsions caused by the gold standard and its aftermath, gold has led many of its most eager and proud possessors to a bad end. And while the same cycle of obsession and desperation may reverberate in today's fast-moving, electronically-driven markets, the role of gold in shaping human history is the striking feature of this tumultuous tale. Such is the power of gold. * https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Power+of+Gold:+The+History+of+an+Obsession,+2nd+Edition-p-9781118270103 https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Power+of+Gold:+The+History+o... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_L._Bernstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_L._Bernstein Bernstein was also the author of Against The Gods: The Remarkable Story of Risk.

jonahbenton 5y ago
The Nature of Money, Geoffrey Ingham, predates Bitcoin and the financial crisis, but it is still the most incisive theoretical discussion of money I've read. If Debt: The First 5000 Years is undergrad, The Nature of Money is grad.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  Any comment on Ingham's Money: ideology, history, politics?
- vishnugupta 5y ago
  +1. You beat me to posting it. As you rightly pointed out it’s not an easy read. I also recommend “The Invention of Coinage and the Monetization of Ancient Greece”. It succinctly covers second order effects of money. I got a good understanding of histories of phenomena that we take for granted such as salary. It’s fascinating to read about the transition. As a meta, I’ve been fortunate to witness a similar momentous transition computers and internet/communication. I wonder what other transition we are going through right now.
  - herodoturtle 5y ago
    > I also recommend “The Invention of Coinage and the Monetization of Ancient Greece”. Seconded ^_^
- cyber_kinetist 5y ago
  Nice recommendation, I've added to my reading list. I have read Graeber's Debt and it's a great book but always thought that it left out many so questions unanswered. His anthropological treatment of money is quite nice until feudalism, but when he starts explaining the start of the Enlightenment and the gold standard in Europe things seemed very rushed and inadequately explained. Also it only touches upon our current system (post-Bretton Woods neoliberalism) briefly in the last chapter, which was a letdown since I though Graeber would have many comments about our current configuration of society.
bedobi 5y ago
ceh123 5y ago
Big ups for Bernstein, Against The Gods was a fantastic read and I can’t wait to read Power of Gold. Another book I’d like to throw into the mix here: Central Banking 101 [0] Fantastic overview of how the current central banking system works, written post-Covid so it has some context for the extensive QE that’s been happening over the last 2 years. Author worked on the Fed’s trading desk for over a decade in various capacities so he has a deep experiential knowledge of the plumbing in action. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Central-Banking-101-Joseph-Wang/dp/0999136747 https://www.amazon.com/Central-Banking-101-Joseph-Wang/dp/09...
- WinterMount223 5y ago
  I found Bernstein’s Against The Gods shallow and blasphemous.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > Fantastic overview of how the current central banking system works If anyone wants a quick '101' primer on monetary systems, Cullen Roche has a good paper: * https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1905625 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1905625 As does the Bank of England: * https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/m...
unmole 5y ago
> Debt: The First 5000 Years by Graeber Graber misinterprets the history and ideas of mainstream economics, calls the safest securities on the planet a debt that will never be paid and spins bizarre conspiracy theories about the Iraq invasion. You might learn about the quaint cultural practices of remote tribes but I strongly disagree that it is a good book to understand money in the real world. A far better resource is Perry Mehrling's Economics of Money and Banking course: https://www.ineteconomics.org/education/courses/the-economics-of-money-banking https://www.ineteconomics.org/education/courses/the-economic...
- Lammy 5y ago
  > a debt that will never be paid I can totally get down for this interpretation. When you think of Humanity (collectively-singular) as an entity destined to invent everything, we will obviously eventually invent the concepts of money, interest, debt, etc. The money can reproduce faster than Humanity can, so we're effectively in debt to ourself and have spent so many years trying to pay it off that we've forgotten we're truly One.
  - unmole 5y ago
    Debt only makes sense if there are at least two entities involved. If you think of humanity as a single entity, there can't be any debt: You can't be in debt to yourself! And that is not what Graber is talking about. The point was about US Treasuries. Everyone treats them as cash equivalents because nobody believes that the US Government will default. But Graber says and I quote: > American imperial power is based on a debt that will never-can never-be repaid. Its national debt has become a promise, not just to its own people, but to the nations of the entire world, that everyone knows will not be kept. And this is the kind of nonsense that is sprinkled all over the book.
    - crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
      So then there's a plan to pay it all back?
Proven 5y ago
pseingatl 5y ago
Don't forget: 𝙏𝙝𝙚 𝙂𝙧𝙖𝙢𝙢𝙖𝙧 𝙤𝙛 𝙈𝙤𝙣𝙚𝙮, by Felouz (Andalus Publishing)
OtomotO 5y ago
The best one is still "das Kapital" ;)
- hef19898 5y ago
  I know why you get downvoted. People tend to forget, so, that Marx actually was a pretty good, and respected, economist. And when he came up with "Das Kapital" it was one way of interpreting the nascent, unlimited capitalism of the industrial revolution. It's a pitty he was co-opted by people like Lenin or Trotzky. Less for what these two were or did, but more for the fact that they led to unlimited communism and Stalinism. Because of that, Western society tends to discard Marx. Looking around, seeing VC capital burning start-ups unhinging industries through capital alone, seeing a raising gig industry, I think Marx is as relevant as he ever was.
  - tcmart14 5y ago
    Not to mention, Marx was fascinated with capitalism and credits much to capitalism. He was a student of Ricardo and Smith. He respected both men deeply. In fact, a lot of Marx's work is an extension of Smith's own ideas and the use of Smith's own language and phrases. It is just, Marx comes to a conclusion that Capitalism has it's limits as a liberating force and thus develops his own ideas of socialism to take the reigns from Capitalism and continue the march of progress. In the critiques Marx has of Capitalism, they are even shared with Smith or deeply influenced by Smith's own struggles with issues that can become present in Capitalism. We see a lot of Marx's basic ideals parroted by people without people realizing it. My favorite is Tucker Carlson listeners who spit on Marx. The idea of an elite with money/resource control controlling politics is literally straight out of Marx's writings and is a talking point Tucker Carlson likes to use.
    - LudwigNagasena 5y ago
      > In fact, a lot of Marx's work is an extension of Smith's own ideas and the use of Smith's own language and phrases. Yes, Marx took the bad parts out of Smith and Ricardo and made a weird theory based on his reification of labor and value. > We see a lot of Marx's basic ideals parroted by people without people realizing it. My favorite is Tucker Carlson listeners who spit on Marx. The idea of an elite with money/resource control controlling politics is literally straight out of Marx's writings and is a talking point Tucker Carlson likes to use. Does Marx have a monopoly on this idea? It is a very trivial thing to believe, you don’t need Marx for that.
schnitzelstoat 5y ago
I'd strongly recommend The Ascent of Money by Niall Ferguson: * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2714607-the-ascent-of-money https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2714607-the-ascent-of-mo... I found the historical context made it much easier to understand, and while I'm not a fan of Ferguson's politics - he is an excellent historian of finance.
- tazjin 5y ago
  This is the same one who tried his hand on epidemiology? If so, I'm gonna stay very far away from that book - there's enough authors out there that second chances in a case like this really are not required.
  - BallyBrain 5y ago
    Similar name different guy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_Ferguson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_Ferguson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Ferguson_(epidemiologist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Ferguson_(epidemiologist)

jonahbenton 5y ago

The Nature of Money, Geoffrey Ingham, predates Bitcoin and the financial crisis, but it is still the most incisive theoretical discussion of money I've read. If Debt: The First 5000 Years is undergrad, The Nature of Money is grad.

throw0101a 5y ago
Any comment on Ingham's Money: ideology, history, politics?
vishnugupta 5y ago
+1. You beat me to posting it. As you rightly pointed out it’s not an easy read. I also recommend “The Invention of Coinage and the Monetization of Ancient Greece”. It succinctly covers second order effects of money. I got a good understanding of histories of phenomena that we take for granted such as salary. It’s fascinating to read about the transition. As a meta, I’ve been fortunate to witness a similar momentous transition computers and internet/communication. I wonder what other transition we are going through right now.
- herodoturtle 5y ago
  > I also recommend “The Invention of Coinage and the Monetization of Ancient Greece”. Seconded ^_^
cyber_kinetist 5y ago
Nice recommendation, I've added to my reading list. I have read Graeber's Debt and it's a great book but always thought that it left out many so questions unanswered. His anthropological treatment of money is quite nice until feudalism, but when he starts explaining the start of the Enlightenment and the gold standard in Europe things seemed very rushed and inadequately explained. Also it only touches upon our current system (post-Bretton Woods neoliberalism) briefly in the last chapter, which was a letdown since I though Graeber would have many comments about our current configuration of society.

bedobi 5y ago

ceh123 5y ago

Big ups for Bernstein, Against The Gods was a fantastic read and I can’t wait to read Power of Gold. Another book I’d like to throw into the mix here: Central Banking 101 [0] Fantastic overview of how the current central banking system works, written post-Covid so it has some context for the extensive QE that’s been happening over the last 2 years. Author worked on the Fed’s trading desk for over a decade in various capacities so he has a deep experiential knowledge of the plumbing in action. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Central-Banking-101-Joseph-Wang/dp/0999136747 https://www.amazon.com/Central-Banking-101-Joseph-Wang/dp/09...

WinterMount223 5y ago
I found Bernstein’s Against The Gods shallow and blasphemous.
throw0101a 5y ago
> Fantastic overview of how the current central banking system works If anyone wants a quick '101' primer on monetary systems, Cullen Roche has a good paper: * https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1905625 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1905625 As does the Bank of England: * https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/m...

unmole 5y ago

> Debt: The First 5000 Years by Graeber Graber misinterprets the history and ideas of mainstream economics, calls the safest securities on the planet a debt that will never be paid and spins bizarre conspiracy theories about the Iraq invasion. You might learn about the quaint cultural practices of remote tribes but I strongly disagree that it is a good book to understand money in the real world. A far better resource is Perry Mehrling's Economics of Money and Banking course: https://www.ineteconomics.org/education/courses/the-economics-of-money-banking https://www.ineteconomics.org/education/courses/the-economic...

Lammy 5y ago
> a debt that will never be paid I can totally get down for this interpretation. When you think of Humanity (collectively-singular) as an entity destined to invent everything, we will obviously eventually invent the concepts of money, interest, debt, etc. The money can reproduce faster than Humanity can, so we're effectively in debt to ourself and have spent so many years trying to pay it off that we've forgotten we're truly One.
- unmole 5y ago
  Debt only makes sense if there are at least two entities involved. If you think of humanity as a single entity, there can't be any debt: You can't be in debt to yourself! And that is not what Graber is talking about. The point was about US Treasuries. Everyone treats them as cash equivalents because nobody believes that the US Government will default. But Graber says and I quote: > American imperial power is based on a debt that will never-can never-be repaid. Its national debt has become a promise, not just to its own people, but to the nations of the entire world, that everyone knows will not be kept. And this is the kind of nonsense that is sprinkled all over the book.
  - crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
    So then there's a plan to pay it all back?

Proven 5y ago

pseingatl 5y ago

Don't forget: 𝙏𝙝𝙚 𝙂𝙧𝙖𝙢𝙢𝙖𝙧 𝙤𝙛 𝙈𝙤𝙣𝙚𝙮, by Felouz (Andalus Publishing)

OtomotO 5y ago

The best one is still "das Kapital" ;)

hef19898 5y ago
I know why you get downvoted. People tend to forget, so, that Marx actually was a pretty good, and respected, economist. And when he came up with "Das Kapital" it was one way of interpreting the nascent, unlimited capitalism of the industrial revolution. It's a pitty he was co-opted by people like Lenin or Trotzky. Less for what these two were or did, but more for the fact that they led to unlimited communism and Stalinism. Because of that, Western society tends to discard Marx. Looking around, seeing VC capital burning start-ups unhinging industries through capital alone, seeing a raising gig industry, I think Marx is as relevant as he ever was.
- tcmart14 5y ago
  Not to mention, Marx was fascinated with capitalism and credits much to capitalism. He was a student of Ricardo and Smith. He respected both men deeply. In fact, a lot of Marx's work is an extension of Smith's own ideas and the use of Smith's own language and phrases. It is just, Marx comes to a conclusion that Capitalism has it's limits as a liberating force and thus develops his own ideas of socialism to take the reigns from Capitalism and continue the march of progress. In the critiques Marx has of Capitalism, they are even shared with Smith or deeply influenced by Smith's own struggles with issues that can become present in Capitalism. We see a lot of Marx's basic ideals parroted by people without people realizing it. My favorite is Tucker Carlson listeners who spit on Marx. The idea of an elite with money/resource control controlling politics is literally straight out of Marx's writings and is a talking point Tucker Carlson likes to use.
  - LudwigNagasena 5y ago
    > In fact, a lot of Marx's work is an extension of Smith's own ideas and the use of Smith's own language and phrases. Yes, Marx took the bad parts out of Smith and Ricardo and made a weird theory based on his reification of labor and value. > We see a lot of Marx's basic ideals parroted by people without people realizing it. My favorite is Tucker Carlson listeners who spit on Marx. The idea of an elite with money/resource control controlling politics is literally straight out of Marx's writings and is a talking point Tucker Carlson likes to use. Does Marx have a monopoly on this idea? It is a very trivial thing to believe, you don’t need Marx for that.

schnitzelstoat 5y ago

I'd strongly recommend The Ascent of Money by Niall Ferguson: * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2714607-the-ascent-of-money https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2714607-the-ascent-of-mo... I found the historical context made it much easier to understand, and while I'm not a fan of Ferguson's politics - he is an excellent historian of finance.

tazjin 5y ago
This is the same one who tried his hand on epidemiology? If so, I'm gonna stay very far away from that book - there's enough authors out there that second chances in a case like this really are not required.
- BallyBrain 5y ago
  Similar name different guy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_Ferguson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_Ferguson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Ferguson_(epidemiologist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Ferguson_(epidemiologist)