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Putin signs law to seize funds of officials that exceed declared income by $100

205 points by awb 5y ago

rad_gruchalski 5y ago
Searching for those who steal from kleptocrats?
CodeWriter23 5y ago
Seems like it will stop some corruption and force some corrupt officials to use the “stuffed mattress” as a bank technique.
- IYasha 5y ago
  And that's why governments all aroud the worlds are drooling over national cryptos. Push button to confiscate.
  - doctor_eval 5y ago
    They don’t need crypto to do that. They can garnish your bank accounts already.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  A stuffed mattress would be wise for those in the west too. After witnessing the freezing of accounts in Canada, I am making sure to have enough physical cash on hand to pay my mortgage, feed my family, and travel if need be. History is full of examples where physical assets are essential. My wife's family had to flee China after their assets were frozen. Ukrainian and Russians today need to flee and have their assets frozen by their respective governments.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  It will only stop corruption if it is enforced against corrupt officials instead of just those who aren't sufficiently loyal to the party line.
spacedcowboy 5y ago
To be fair, that $100 is now a lot of rubles…
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  Regardless, the buying power of those $100 is still the same in Russia. Only the citizens who only have rubles have lost massive buying power due to hyper inflation.
  - School-Cotton 5y ago
    Not necessarily, since things sold in Russia aren’t denominated in USD. The ruble losing X against USD doesn’t automatically mean that everything becomes higher priced by X immediately (except for imported goods).
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      >since things sold in Russia aren’t denominated in USD. Most important assets are. Valuable assets like real estate and sometimes cars is mostly denominated in USD and sometimes EUR, as the Rubble is too weak and volatile for the general population to bother with it for valuable assets. It's the same in Romania, cars and real estate are denominated in EUR despite nearly everyone in the country being paid in the national currency RON, and, before the creation of the EUR, they were denominated in USD or Deutsch Marks as the national currency was fluctuating like BTC. >The ruble losing X against USD doesn’t automatically mean that everything becomes higher priced by X immediately (except for imported goods) It does, since Russia doesn't really manufacture any high value goods that are in demand on the free market, so it has to import nearly everything apart from basic food, fuels and raw materials. I'm sure Russia can survive just fine without Dutch cheese, US bourbon, Italian designer clothes and French wine imports due to sanctions, but US CPUs, GPUs, iPhones and MacBooks, German car parts and industrial equipment, Swedish trucks, Liechtensteinian dental drills, French Airbuses and Japanese cameras, industrial robots, cutting edge sensors and chips still cost the same amount in USD, EUR and YEN to make but now 2x the price in RUB to import due to the devaluation and Russia needs to import all those things to not go back to the stone age, as they don't manufacture any equivalent domestic alternatives.
NoPie 5y ago
$100 even in roubles now is very low amount for high level functionaries. This law could be used to get rid of undesirable people because you can selectively apply to practically anyone.
- netsharc 5y ago
  I was wondering if Putin wanted to make enemies out of his apparatchiks, but you're right, it's to keep them quiet and subservient. Similar to China's anti-corruption laws, where only the undesirables get investigated and even punished with death. As a bonus maybe the uninformed Russians will now think Putin is cleaning up government, the corrupt middle layer that's ruining his mission to make Russia great again...
- bombcar 5y ago
  Now we can add to the bad idea train “send $150 to random bank accounts in Russia”.
  - bencollier49 5y ago
    Missed your chance there, I think.
    - wereHamster 5y ago
      Still possible, just have to do it via China.
      - bencollier49 5y ago
        Indeed, I guess if you've got a Union Pay card, or whatever it's called.
    - t0mas88 5y ago
      It just got cheaper... It's something like $ 100 now.
- iso1210 5y ago
throwuxiytayq 5y ago
Is this a sign of internal conflict? I don't think Putin would right now bother with signing law that isn't absolutely necessary for putting out some kind of fire.
- Tagbert 5y ago
  Probably a preemptive move to remind those in the government that they are vulnerable and, should they raise their voice about Putin’s activities, they can be swatted down with this law.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    Also, to lower the cost of sanctions on them. If they start rumbling about losing money outside Russia, Putin can just take everything in Russia or not. And if sanctions get removed, that still can happen.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  Just spitballing here, but it's probably a two fold thing: 1. create a law that would probably be popular with most average people because it is anti-corruption on its face, and 2. allow the government to legally go after virtually any public servant in a selective manner to crack down on dissension
punk_ihaq 5y ago
Does Putin himself come under the purview of this law? He's alleged to have a palace worth 100 million rubles on the Black Sea coast.
- Fatnino 5y ago
  It's declared so it's all ok
  - tuukkah 5y ago
    It's not under his name so it's all ok.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Does Putin himself come under the purview of this law? He's alleged to have a palace worth 100 million rubles on the Black Sea coast. Of course not. Anti-corruption measures in places like that are selectively enforced. Go after the little fish to score anti-corruption points, while the big fish are literally above the law.
  - tuwtuwtuwtuw 5y ago
    > while the big fish are literally above the law. Which law?
- popilewiz 5y ago
- HWR_14 5y ago
  > He's alleged to have a palace worth 100 million rubles on the Black Sea coast. That wouldn't be in a bank account, so he's safe. It's only following cash into/out of the banking system
- viktorcode 5y ago
  You severely underestimate the cost of the palace. It's in ballpark of a billion USD.
throwthere 5y ago
Title is completely wrong. It's actually: [sum of family's last 3 years income] + 10,000 rubles > [sum of family's account balances]. > the bank accounts of civil servants, as well as members of their families, including minor children, will be checked by the prosecutor’s office. If it turns out that the proceeds from them exceed the total income of the official and his relatives for three years by more than 10,000 rubles, a lawsuit will be filed with the court for the forced withdrawal of these funds to the budget.
- bombcar 5y ago
  Isn’t it more “sum of income” > “sum of inflows”? It seems something relatively easy to check and relatively easy to bypass for those intending to do so.
- callmeal 5y ago
  >[sum of family's last 3 years income] + 10,000 rubles > [sum of family's account balances]. Wowow that is crazy. Anyone who was disciplined about saving/investing and has been doing so for > 5 years will easily meet that criteria!
  - Volundr 5y ago
    Assuming this is anything like the US, capital gains and interest both count as income. Your (probably) not in trouble here simply for being a savvy investor. Obviously, INAL and definitely not a Russian Lawyer.
    - derefr 5y ago
      You missed the key point: it’s lifetime-to-date net worth (heuristic: current bank account balances) vs. recent income. As in, if you make X per year; and you have >3X in savings from Y>3 years of spending (a lot) less than you make and stuffing the difference under a mattress, then all your savings in excess of 3X get confiscated. In other words, similar to people on welfare in America, public servants in Russia are now not allowed to retain assets in excess of a certain limit proportional to their income—even when that income all came directly from their (government) job. This is analogous to a progressive wealth tax, but not the same; as a wealth tax still allows disproportionate wealth growth for the highest-income earners; while the goal of this measure is to leave you with at most exactly three years of however-much you’re currently making, and nothing more, no matter what your assets looked like before that. The key “feature” to observe about this approach, IMHO, is that under this system people who are close to the savings cap already, are incentivized to spend every ruble they make, as any extra “left over” come audit time will be taken away. (It’s a bit like the game-theoretic consequences of yearly-limit insurance coverage, actually!)
ordu 5y ago
Judging by a description, it is a law to imprison any official. Seems that they are going to a gulag now. Putin took all the power, he needs his followers no more. Stalin also did this. Those who do not fear the darkness will be consumed by it.
- danuker 5y ago
  One man can not rule a nation by himself. When his followers are scared or worried enough, they might attempt mutiny.
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    One thing that I don't understand about military structures is that putin is not holding every gun on the ground. All these orders are carried by officers of various ranks, these should be the one to target in order to stop this crisis.
    - adventured 5y ago
      People on the inside perform an internal battle: between knowing that they are part of the evil deeds (war crimes, trials, executions after), being afraid of being murdered/purged by the regime in the meantime, and if it gets bad enough the balance tilts more toward being time to mutiny and get rid of the dictator before he kills us all. A lot of things have to line up to get enough of the apparatus together to remove someone like Putin. Early into the Stalinification process, Putin's insiders will not turn on him, even when he starts to purge them. They'll hold out, hopeful that they're not next, scared, afraid to move; they'll tell themselves that they won't be next because they have been loyal, various rationalizations. You can target these insiders, it doesn't matter, they will not turn on him at this stage. A lot of people will have to die before we arrive at that juncture. Putin's greatest single vulnerability is the FSB, they coup'd the Russian democracy (such that it was, being so embryonic) and installed him, they're among the best positioned to remove him. The question is, why should they. He's one of their own. The oligarchs could perhaps try purchasing his removal in conspiracy with the military or FSB, although it's very unlikely. The military can't be happy with its humiliation in Ukraine and the masses of dead soldiers, which will ultimately be for naught (Putin forced this outcome on them); and I would expect Putin to punish some prominent military leaders for the various failures, which never goes over well with the system broadly.
dehrmann 5y ago
So this is basically a blank check for the government to take funds from any civil servant it wants?
- ineedasername 5y ago
  >wants "Isn't sufficiently loyal" may be more accurate.
- wereHamster 5y ago
  The US has it too, it's called «civil forfeiture»!
  - jkepler 5y ago
    Civil asset forfeiture. Reason.com (a libertarian magazine in the USA) has been reporting on this massive challenge to private property rights in the US for over 40 years: https://reason.com/tag/civil-asset-forfeiture/ https://reason.com/tag/civil-asset-forfeiture/
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dukeofdoom 5y ago
- martythemaniak 5y ago
  This is an incredibly misinformation-dense post. Accounts were not seized. People who donated over 50 were not targeted. There was no bank run. There was little blowback. Protest rights were not suspended. The emergencies act invocation was passed by parliament and always has a built in expiry.
  - alphabettsy 5y ago
    Check out the comment history. It’s a lot of misinformation.
    - mrlonglong 5y ago
      Maybe ask dang to check him out and take action if needed?
      - Lascaille 5y ago
        Maybe go be a fascist somewhere else?
        mrlonglong 5y ago
        Maybe stop spreading misinformation.
        Lascaille 5y ago
        Having an opinion - which you can justify vaguely logically - about subjective matters and sharing it isn't 'spreading misinformation.' There's a very toxic current of censorship spreading which involves redefining opinions (inherently a subjective matter) as information (inherently an objective matter) in order to justify them being censored on the grounds of 'combating misinformation.' People are free to be wrong and to spread the word of their wrongness. If you take the random words - on a subjective topic! - of a weirdo on the internet to be 'information' then you're a bloody idiot.
trhway 5y ago
As Russian joke these days goes "Russia is going to be the Northern-most of all the Northern Koreas of the world". It took Putin 22 years yet we're here. Last time a KGB guy ran the country - Andropov - it also was tremendous tightening of the screws to the point of total breaking of things and thus resulted in "perestroyka" and all what followed it. Russian officials store huge amount of cash out of banks, so that new law is really just to be used selectively to punish, not to really fight corruption (naturally no surprise here). It is like in USSR - one just couldn't have any large bank account back then, and so all those Party bosses, municipal leaders, police officers, factory directors, etc. had piles of cash and jewelry at homes.
- foverzar 5y ago
  > As Russian joke these days goes "Russia is going to be the Northern-most of all the Northern Koreas of the world". Is there actually such a joke? Seems like there isn't.
  - trhway 5y ago
    Man, I wish I could produce such jokes myself :) anekdot.ru is the last stand of sanity there.
- toyg 5y ago
  > It is like in USSR Except this time it doesn't have even the pretense of working for the common good. Putin has funded the worst sort of racists across Europe for decades.
  - trhway 5y ago
    They supported dictators. Another back to USSR thing -with Western condom brands pulling out of Russia it is going to be only low quality domestic rubber like back then.
- saiya-jin 5y ago
  I recall a case few years ago in Moscow, where they found cca 100 millions $ in flat of some low bureaucrat. Everybody was surprised how on his low position he could amass so much. So yeah, what seems to be happening rapidly now is Russia abandoning last bits of democracy and going full dictatorship quickly. To block any dissent in its beginning by possibility of state terror. Not sure if it will work in 2022, for sure hoping it won't.
option 5y ago
Like any other law in Russia this would apply selectively to those who are against him
rzwitserloot 5y ago
I'm confused. Either this is: [A] You may not save more money in your bank account(s) than 3 * current yearly salary+10k rubles. If your bank account balance is higher, the burden of proof is reversed and you need to prove that you earned it properly. [B] The amount of incoming cash over some unknown period of time, if higher than 3 * salary+10k rubles, means that every cent above that boundary gets confiscated unless you can prove you earned it. For [B], that unknown period of time is rather incredibly important. If it's 'one year' that means this law effectively says: "If you corrupt and crime your way into more money, allright, but, cap yourself at a 2:1 illegal-legal rate; any more than that and the burden of proof reverses and we'll just take the remainder. If it's 3 years though, then this says: Any money you make outside of your salary is capped at ~€50 a year (not 50 thousand, fifty). Any more and we just take it. For [A], hoo boy, that seems like a crazy or desperate move: Steal from those who saved. That really creates a YOLO culture where you just spend every cent you earn immediately, never building anything up because it'll just be taken. That, and everybody will be buying a spacious mattress IMMEDIATELY and will continue to use that as their personal bank for a very very long time. Separately, the 10k rubles rider seems crazy. 10k rubles is, even before the ruble's collapse, something like €/$ 150,-. Even in Russia where yearly salaries are considerably lower than e.g. western europe or the US, €150,- is a rounding error compared to even a low yearly salary, right? Anyone have more details? It sounds like perhaps it's B, over a year, so this just caps corruption at 2:1. Whilst I'm sure that'll have quite an effect on russian society, it's not going to significantly affect anybody other than apparatchicks.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
RivieraKid 5y ago
This whole situation is kind of scary and depressing, big country with nukes and an increasingly unhinged dictator with a strong hold on power. The only possible way out is Putin dying, but he can easily have 10 to 20 more years, which is a long time for him to do more harm.
- trhway 5y ago
  Accidental slip with regional powers splitting instead of fighting to lead the corpse of Russia. Like Chechnya which is there only until Putin sends huge money there, and there is no more money. Or Far East falling in gravitational pull of China without money and power from Moscow.
  - uerobert 5y ago
    Who gets to keep the nukes?
    - trhway 5y ago
      If world plays the cards right this time - nobody.
- AniseAbyss 5y ago
  "big country with nukes and an increasingly unhinged dictator with a strong hold on power" So basically Stalin? The history of Russia is bleak it is not as if the Putin situation is a new phenomenon. If this was happening in my country people would be setting themselves on fire and jumping off buildings in Russia it's just another Monday.
- Bayart 5y ago
  You're quite optimistic, thinking Putin dying is good enough. The Russians have been swamped in nationalistic rhetoric for ages. Who's to say that Putin going away won't just help reform Russia into a state that's more efficient at implementing an imperialistic agenda ?
david12345 5y ago
Mikhail Saltykov-Shchedrin: “the severity of Russian laws is alleviated by the lack of obligation to fulfil them”
- dntrkv 5y ago
  They’re just slowly building up enough of these laws so that when the time comes, they can enforce them selectively. Old Soviet tactic.
onion2k 5y ago
I'd wager this is a law that means Putin's regime is 'legally' able to remove officials he doesn't like due to 'corruption'. People who toe the party line and pander to their bosses won't be looked at. Everyone else goes to prison. It's cementing his power in a time when a lot of officials are likely considering whether he's really the best leader to have in power right now.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > Putin's regime is 'legally' able to remove officials he doesn't like due to 'corruption' This has been true since 2003 [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky#Criminal_charges_and_incarceration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky#Criminal_...
  - MrDisposable 5y ago
    Yes, but now he can apply the same principle to literally every bureaucrat, with minimal effort.
- MrDisposable 5y ago
  This exactly.
ok123456 5y ago
Is this going to apply to his watch collection?
- pelasaco 5y ago
  Yes, interesting. How could an official and public servant become one of the richest man in the World just with his salary, right?
- ithkuil 5y ago
  No it's only bank account. The solution is clearly to buy watches like the Hublot Putin has
sAbakumoff 5y ago
It's usual BS that they do to keep their polling numbers. In addition, it's a tool to keep those officials loyal to Putin's regime. It's fragile, it barely holds. The coup is near.
sega_sai 5y ago
It is absolutely clear what is going on. The economic situation is going to be extremely dire very-very soon. I.e. the USD/RUB exchange rate fell by 50% and likely will fall much more. They already introduced limits how much you can buy in grocery stores (sugar etc.), so they'll need additional enemies to blame other than the West, Ukraine, nazis etc. The selected corrupt officials are a good target, since there are plenty of them. Obviously only those identified to be not loyal enough will be selected. The exact text of the law and numbers does not really matter here, as there is no real independent court/justice or any kind of rule of law.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  Will they see a french revolution type event with mass beheadings in Moscow though? Any other time I would have laughed at the thought, not so sure now…
  - upsidesinclude 5y ago
    You mean Russian revolution type event, I'm certain
epiphanitus 5y ago
The source of this article seems kind of dodgy. - I haven't found a credible source corroborating the claim made in this article. - Their FB page has surprisingly little traffic for a news site and their twitter account was suspended recently. https://www.facebook.com/then24dotcom/ https://www.facebook.com/then24dotcom/ https://twitter.com/then24dotcom https://twitter.com/then24dotcom - Their contact email is...not one you would expect for a legitimate news site (celebsbabe @ $major_mail_provider). Edit: formatting
- awb 5y ago
  Here’s a US mainstream source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-signs-law-seize-illegal-143210095.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-signs-law-seize-illegal...
  - epiphanitus 5y ago
    The original source was probably a front. This new source is better, but their source is Russian State TV. I would be interested in whether the law actually exists, and if so whether it is really applied consistently without exceptions for 'special' people.
anothernewdude 5y ago
Is there any reason at all that this wouldn't immediately cause a run on the banks?
MrDisposable 5y ago
This is a message to mid-level bureaucrats: stay loyal and don't get any ideas, or else we'll look into your spending history.
- tsol 5y ago
  I was trying to figure out why the passed this law now. That makes sense-- as a tool to ensure loyalty. Otherwise, with all the already existing pressure coming from the falling value of the ruble, I don't know what use Putin would have of scaring his officials. Putin himself certainly already has enough money to weather any storm himself.
  - MrDisposable 5y ago
    > I was trying to figure out why the passed this law now. Because now he won't be facing any resistance (anyone opposing the law would be deemed unpatriotic and dealt with accordingly). And also because he doesn't want to bribe them anymore, he wants to force them into obedience. > I don't know what use Putin would have of scaring his officials. He doesn't want anyone to revolt.
- pxtail 5y ago
  At same time this is also populist message to Putin supporters among regular working class citizens "see? our grand leader gonna finally shake them pesky rich thieves!"
Ourgon 5y ago
Putin is among the richest people in the world with an estimated worth of ~200 billion USD. His salary is half than that of the Swedish PM so if this law takes power they'll have to arrest him.
peter303 5y ago
I suspect Putin would lose all his bank accounts under these rules.
freddealmeida 5y ago
I think this is to remove officials that are making money on the side through corrupt practices. Wish we would do this in the US and Canada. I bet Biden would be in some trouble.

205 points by awb 5y ago

Searching for those who steal from kleptocrats?

Seems like it will stop some corruption and force some corrupt officials to use the “stuffed mattress” as a bank technique.

IYasha 5y ago
And that's why governments all aroud the worlds are drooling over national cryptos. Push button to confiscate.
- doctor_eval 5y ago
  They don’t need crypto to do that. They can garnish your bank accounts already.
s1artibartfast 5y ago
A stuffed mattress would be wise for those in the west too. After witnessing the freezing of accounts in Canada, I am making sure to have enough physical cash on hand to pay my mortgage, feed my family, and travel if need be. History is full of examples where physical assets are essential. My wife's family had to flee China after their assets were frozen. Ukrainian and Russians today need to flee and have their assets frozen by their respective governments.
ineedasername 5y ago
It will only stop corruption if it is enforced against corrupt officials instead of just those who aren't sufficiently loyal to the party line.

spacedcowboy 5y ago

To be fair, that $100 is now a lot of rubles…

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
Regardless, the buying power of those $100 is still the same in Russia. Only the citizens who only have rubles have lost massive buying power due to hyper inflation.
- School-Cotton 5y ago
  Not necessarily, since things sold in Russia aren’t denominated in USD. The ruble losing X against USD doesn’t automatically mean that everything becomes higher priced by X immediately (except for imported goods).
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >since things sold in Russia aren’t denominated in USD. Most important assets are. Valuable assets like real estate and sometimes cars is mostly denominated in USD and sometimes EUR, as the Rubble is too weak and volatile for the general population to bother with it for valuable assets. It's the same in Romania, cars and real estate are denominated in EUR despite nearly everyone in the country being paid in the national currency RON, and, before the creation of the EUR, they were denominated in USD or Deutsch Marks as the national currency was fluctuating like BTC. >The ruble losing X against USD doesn’t automatically mean that everything becomes higher priced by X immediately (except for imported goods) It does, since Russia doesn't really manufacture any high value goods that are in demand on the free market, so it has to import nearly everything apart from basic food, fuels and raw materials. I'm sure Russia can survive just fine without Dutch cheese, US bourbon, Italian designer clothes and French wine imports due to sanctions, but US CPUs, GPUs, iPhones and MacBooks, German car parts and industrial equipment, Swedish trucks, Liechtensteinian dental drills, French Airbuses and Japanese cameras, industrial robots, cutting edge sensors and chips still cost the same amount in USD, EUR and YEN to make but now 2x the price in RUB to import due to the devaluation and Russia needs to import all those things to not go back to the stone age, as they don't manufacture any equivalent domestic alternatives.

NoPie 5y ago

$100 even in roubles now is very low amount for high level functionaries. This law could be used to get rid of undesirable people because you can selectively apply to practically anyone.

netsharc 5y ago
I was wondering if Putin wanted to make enemies out of his apparatchiks, but you're right, it's to keep them quiet and subservient. Similar to China's anti-corruption laws, where only the undesirables get investigated and even punished with death. As a bonus maybe the uninformed Russians will now think Putin is cleaning up government, the corrupt middle layer that's ruining his mission to make Russia great again...
bombcar 5y ago
Now we can add to the bad idea train “send $150 to random bank accounts in Russia”.
- bencollier49 5y ago
  Missed your chance there, I think.
  - wereHamster 5y ago
    Still possible, just have to do it via China.
    - bencollier49 5y ago
      Indeed, I guess if you've got a Union Pay card, or whatever it's called.
  - t0mas88 5y ago
    It just got cheaper... It's something like $ 100 now.
iso1210 5y ago

throwuxiytayq 5y ago

Is this a sign of internal conflict? I don't think Putin would right now bother with signing law that isn't absolutely necessary for putting out some kind of fire.

Tagbert 5y ago
Probably a preemptive move to remind those in the government that they are vulnerable and, should they raise their voice about Putin’s activities, they can be swatted down with this law.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  Also, to lower the cost of sanctions on them. If they start rumbling about losing money outside Russia, Putin can just take everything in Russia or not. And if sanctions get removed, that still can happen.
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
Just spitballing here, but it's probably a two fold thing: 1. create a law that would probably be popular with most average people because it is anti-corruption on its face, and 2. allow the government to legally go after virtually any public servant in a selective manner to crack down on dissension

punk_ihaq 5y ago

Does Putin himself come under the purview of this law? He's alleged to have a palace worth 100 million rubles on the Black Sea coast.

Fatnino 5y ago
It's declared so it's all ok
- tuukkah 5y ago
  It's not under his name so it's all ok.
tablespoon 5y ago
> Does Putin himself come under the purview of this law? He's alleged to have a palace worth 100 million rubles on the Black Sea coast. Of course not. Anti-corruption measures in places like that are selectively enforced. Go after the little fish to score anti-corruption points, while the big fish are literally above the law.
- tuwtuwtuwtuw 5y ago
  > while the big fish are literally above the law. Which law?
popilewiz 5y ago
HWR_14 5y ago
> He's alleged to have a palace worth 100 million rubles on the Black Sea coast. That wouldn't be in a bank account, so he's safe. It's only following cash into/out of the banking system
viktorcode 5y ago
You severely underestimate the cost of the palace. It's in ballpark of a billion USD.

throwthere 5y ago

Title is completely wrong. It's actually: [sum of family's last 3 years income] + 10,000 rubles > [sum of family's account balances]. > the bank accounts of civil servants, as well as members of their families, including minor children, will be checked by the prosecutor’s office. If it turns out that the proceeds from them exceed the total income of the official and his relatives for three years by more than 10,000 rubles, a lawsuit will be filed with the court for the forced withdrawal of these funds to the budget.

bombcar 5y ago
Isn’t it more “sum of income” > “sum of inflows”? It seems something relatively easy to check and relatively easy to bypass for those intending to do so.
callmeal 5y ago
>[sum of family's last 3 years income] + 10,000 rubles > [sum of family's account balances]. Wowow that is crazy. Anyone who was disciplined about saving/investing and has been doing so for > 5 years will easily meet that criteria!
- Volundr 5y ago
  Assuming this is anything like the US, capital gains and interest both count as income. Your (probably) not in trouble here simply for being a savvy investor. Obviously, INAL and definitely not a Russian Lawyer.
  - derefr 5y ago
    You missed the key point: it’s lifetime-to-date net worth (heuristic: current bank account balances) vs. recent income. As in, if you make X per year; and you have >3X in savings from Y>3 years of spending (a lot) less than you make and stuffing the difference under a mattress, then all your savings in excess of 3X get confiscated. In other words, similar to people on welfare in America, public servants in Russia are now not allowed to retain assets in excess of a certain limit proportional to their income—even when that income all came directly from their (government) job. This is analogous to a progressive wealth tax, but not the same; as a wealth tax still allows disproportionate wealth growth for the highest-income earners; while the goal of this measure is to leave you with at most exactly three years of however-much you’re currently making, and nothing more, no matter what your assets looked like before that. The key “feature” to observe about this approach, IMHO, is that under this system people who are close to the savings cap already, are incentivized to spend every ruble they make, as any extra “left over” come audit time will be taken away. (It’s a bit like the game-theoretic consequences of yearly-limit insurance coverage, actually!)

ordu 5y ago

Judging by a description, it is a law to imprison any official. Seems that they are going to a gulag now. Putin took all the power, he needs his followers no more. Stalin also did this. Those who do not fear the darkness will be consumed by it.

danuker 5y ago
One man can not rule a nation by himself. When his followers are scared or worried enough, they might attempt mutiny.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  One thing that I don't understand about military structures is that putin is not holding every gun on the ground. All these orders are carried by officers of various ranks, these should be the one to target in order to stop this crisis.
  - adventured 5y ago
    People on the inside perform an internal battle: between knowing that they are part of the evil deeds (war crimes, trials, executions after), being afraid of being murdered/purged by the regime in the meantime, and if it gets bad enough the balance tilts more toward being time to mutiny and get rid of the dictator before he kills us all. A lot of things have to line up to get enough of the apparatus together to remove someone like Putin. Early into the Stalinification process, Putin's insiders will not turn on him, even when he starts to purge them. They'll hold out, hopeful that they're not next, scared, afraid to move; they'll tell themselves that they won't be next because they have been loyal, various rationalizations. You can target these insiders, it doesn't matter, they will not turn on him at this stage. A lot of people will have to die before we arrive at that juncture. Putin's greatest single vulnerability is the FSB, they coup'd the Russian democracy (such that it was, being so embryonic) and installed him, they're among the best positioned to remove him. The question is, why should they. He's one of their own. The oligarchs could perhaps try purchasing his removal in conspiracy with the military or FSB, although it's very unlikely. The military can't be happy with its humiliation in Ukraine and the masses of dead soldiers, which will ultimately be for naught (Putin forced this outcome on them); and I would expect Putin to punish some prominent military leaders for the various failures, which never goes over well with the system broadly.

dehrmann 5y ago

So this is basically a blank check for the government to take funds from any civil servant it wants?

ineedasername 5y ago
>wants "Isn't sufficiently loyal" may be more accurate.
wereHamster 5y ago
The US has it too, it's called «civil forfeiture»!
- jkepler 5y ago
  Civil asset forfeiture. Reason.com (a libertarian magazine in the USA) has been reporting on this massive challenge to private property rights in the US for over 40 years: https://reason.com/tag/civil-asset-forfeiture/ https://reason.com/tag/civil-asset-forfeiture/

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

dukeofdoom 5y ago

martythemaniak 5y ago
This is an incredibly misinformation-dense post. Accounts were not seized. People who donated over 50 were not targeted. There was no bank run. There was little blowback. Protest rights were not suspended. The emergencies act invocation was passed by parliament and always has a built in expiry.
- alphabettsy 5y ago
  Check out the comment history. It’s a lot of misinformation.
  - mrlonglong 5y ago
    Maybe ask dang to check him out and take action if needed?
    - Lascaille 5y ago
      Maybe go be a fascist somewhere else?
      - mrlonglong 5y ago
        Maybe stop spreading misinformation.
        Lascaille 5y ago
        Having an opinion - which you can justify vaguely logically - about subjective matters and sharing it isn't 'spreading misinformation.' There's a very toxic current of censorship spreading which involves redefining opinions (inherently a subjective matter) as information (inherently an objective matter) in order to justify them being censored on the grounds of 'combating misinformation.' People are free to be wrong and to spread the word of their wrongness. If you take the random words - on a subjective topic! - of a weirdo on the internet to be 'information' then you're a bloody idiot.

trhway 5y ago

As Russian joke these days goes "Russia is going to be the Northern-most of all the Northern Koreas of the world". It took Putin 22 years yet we're here. Last time a KGB guy ran the country - Andropov - it also was tremendous tightening of the screws to the point of total breaking of things and thus resulted in "perestroyka" and all what followed it. Russian officials store huge amount of cash out of banks, so that new law is really just to be used selectively to punish, not to really fight corruption (naturally no surprise here). It is like in USSR - one just couldn't have any large bank account back then, and so all those Party bosses, municipal leaders, police officers, factory directors, etc. had piles of cash and jewelry at homes.

foverzar 5y ago
> As Russian joke these days goes "Russia is going to be the Northern-most of all the Northern Koreas of the world". Is there actually such a joke? Seems like there isn't.
- trhway 5y ago
  Man, I wish I could produce such jokes myself :) anekdot.ru is the last stand of sanity there.
toyg 5y ago
> It is like in USSR Except this time it doesn't have even the pretense of working for the common good. Putin has funded the worst sort of racists across Europe for decades.
- trhway 5y ago
  They supported dictators. Another back to USSR thing -with Western condom brands pulling out of Russia it is going to be only low quality domestic rubber like back then.
saiya-jin 5y ago
I recall a case few years ago in Moscow, where they found cca 100 millions $ in flat of some low bureaucrat. Everybody was surprised how on his low position he could amass so much. So yeah, what seems to be happening rapidly now is Russia abandoning last bits of democracy and going full dictatorship quickly. To block any dissent in its beginning by possibility of state terror. Not sure if it will work in 2022, for sure hoping it won't.

option 5y ago

Like any other law in Russia this would apply selectively to those who are against him

rzwitserloot 5y ago

I'm confused. Either this is: [A] You may not save more money in your bank account(s) than 3 * current yearly salary+10k rubles. If your bank account balance is higher, the burden of proof is reversed and you need to prove that you earned it properly. [B] The amount of incoming cash over some unknown period of time, if higher than 3 * salary+10k rubles, means that every cent above that boundary gets confiscated unless you can prove you earned it. For [B], that unknown period of time is rather incredibly important. If it's 'one year' that means this law effectively says: "If you corrupt and crime your way into more money, allright, but, cap yourself at a 2:1 illegal-legal rate; any more than that and the burden of proof reverses and we'll just take the remainder. If it's 3 years though, then this says: Any money you make outside of your salary is capped at ~€50 a year (not 50 thousand, fifty). Any more and we just take it. For [A], hoo boy, that seems like a crazy or desperate move: Steal from those who saved. That really creates a YOLO culture where you just spend every cent you earn immediately, never building anything up because it'll just be taken. That, and everybody will be buying a spacious mattress IMMEDIATELY and will continue to use that as their personal bank for a very very long time. Separately, the 10k rubles rider seems crazy. 10k rubles is, even before the ruble's collapse, something like €/$ 150,-. Even in Russia where yearly salaries are considerably lower than e.g. western europe or the US, €150,- is a rounding error compared to even a low yearly salary, right? Anyone have more details? It sounds like perhaps it's B, over a year, so this just caps corruption at 2:1. Whilst I'm sure that'll have quite an effect on russian society, it's not going to significantly affect anybody other than apparatchicks.

deleted 5y ago
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RivieraKid 5y ago

This whole situation is kind of scary and depressing, big country with nukes and an increasingly unhinged dictator with a strong hold on power. The only possible way out is Putin dying, but he can easily have 10 to 20 more years, which is a long time for him to do more harm.

trhway 5y ago
Accidental slip with regional powers splitting instead of fighting to lead the corpse of Russia. Like Chechnya which is there only until Putin sends huge money there, and there is no more money. Or Far East falling in gravitational pull of China without money and power from Moscow.
- uerobert 5y ago
  Who gets to keep the nukes?
  - trhway 5y ago
    If world plays the cards right this time - nobody.
AniseAbyss 5y ago
"big country with nukes and an increasingly unhinged dictator with a strong hold on power" So basically Stalin? The history of Russia is bleak it is not as if the Putin situation is a new phenomenon. If this was happening in my country people would be setting themselves on fire and jumping off buildings in Russia it's just another Monday.
Bayart 5y ago
You're quite optimistic, thinking Putin dying is good enough. The Russians have been swamped in nationalistic rhetoric for ages. Who's to say that Putin going away won't just help reform Russia into a state that's more efficient at implementing an imperialistic agenda ?

david12345 5y ago

Mikhail Saltykov-Shchedrin: “the severity of Russian laws is alleviated by the lack of obligation to fulfil them”

dntrkv 5y ago
They’re just slowly building up enough of these laws so that when the time comes, they can enforce them selectively. Old Soviet tactic.

onion2k 5y ago

I'd wager this is a law that means Putin's regime is 'legally' able to remove officials he doesn't like due to 'corruption'. People who toe the party line and pander to their bosses won't be looked at. Everyone else goes to prison. It's cementing his power in a time when a lot of officials are likely considering whether he's really the best leader to have in power right now.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> Putin's regime is 'legally' able to remove officials he doesn't like due to 'corruption' This has been true since 2003 [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky#Criminal_charges_and_incarceration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky#Criminal_...
- MrDisposable 5y ago
  Yes, but now he can apply the same principle to literally every bureaucrat, with minimal effort.
MrDisposable 5y ago
This exactly.

ok123456 5y ago

Is this going to apply to his watch collection?

pelasaco 5y ago
Yes, interesting. How could an official and public servant become one of the richest man in the World just with his salary, right?
ithkuil 5y ago
No it's only bank account. The solution is clearly to buy watches like the Hublot Putin has

sAbakumoff 5y ago

It's usual BS that they do to keep their polling numbers. In addition, it's a tool to keep those officials loyal to Putin's regime. It's fragile, it barely holds. The coup is near.

sega_sai 5y ago

It is absolutely clear what is going on. The economic situation is going to be extremely dire very-very soon. I.e. the USD/RUB exchange rate fell by 50% and likely will fall much more. They already introduced limits how much you can buy in grocery stores (sugar etc.), so they'll need additional enemies to blame other than the West, Ukraine, nazis etc. The selected corrupt officials are a good target, since there are plenty of them. Obviously only those identified to be not loyal enough will be selected. The exact text of the law and numbers does not really matter here, as there is no real independent court/justice or any kind of rule of law.

mensetmanusman 5y ago
Will they see a french revolution type event with mass beheadings in Moscow though? Any other time I would have laughed at the thought, not so sure now…
- upsidesinclude 5y ago
  You mean Russian revolution type event, I'm certain

epiphanitus 5y ago

The source of this article seems kind of dodgy. - I haven't found a credible source corroborating the claim made in this article. - Their FB page has surprisingly little traffic for a news site and their twitter account was suspended recently. https://www.facebook.com/then24dotcom/ https://www.facebook.com/then24dotcom/ https://twitter.com/then24dotcom https://twitter.com/then24dotcom - Their contact email is...not one you would expect for a legitimate news site (celebsbabe @ $major_mail_provider). Edit: formatting

awb 5y ago
Here’s a US mainstream source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-signs-law-seize-illegal-143210095.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-signs-law-seize-illegal...
- epiphanitus 5y ago
  The original source was probably a front. This new source is better, but their source is Russian State TV. I would be interested in whether the law actually exists, and if so whether it is really applied consistently without exceptions for 'special' people.

anothernewdude 5y ago

Is there any reason at all that this wouldn't immediately cause a run on the banks?

MrDisposable 5y ago

This is a message to mid-level bureaucrats: stay loyal and don't get any ideas, or else we'll look into your spending history.

tsol 5y ago
I was trying to figure out why the passed this law now. That makes sense-- as a tool to ensure loyalty. Otherwise, with all the already existing pressure coming from the falling value of the ruble, I don't know what use Putin would have of scaring his officials. Putin himself certainly already has enough money to weather any storm himself.
- MrDisposable 5y ago
  > I was trying to figure out why the passed this law now. Because now he won't be facing any resistance (anyone opposing the law would be deemed unpatriotic and dealt with accordingly). And also because he doesn't want to bribe them anymore, he wants to force them into obedience. > I don't know what use Putin would have of scaring his officials. He doesn't want anyone to revolt.
pxtail 5y ago
At same time this is also populist message to Putin supporters among regular working class citizens "see? our grand leader gonna finally shake them pesky rich thieves!"

Ourgon 5y ago

Putin is among the richest people in the world with an estimated worth of ~200 billion USD. His salary is half than that of the Swedish PM so if this law takes power they'll have to arrest him.

peter303 5y ago

I suspect Putin would lose all his bank accounts under these rules.

freddealmeida 5y ago

I think this is to remove officials that are making money on the side through corrupt practices. Wish we would do this in the US and Canada. I bet Biden would be in some trouble.