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Last Day of IKEA in Moscow
- k12sosse 5y agoThese photos kind of perfectly sum up just how bizarre the situation is.
- oliv__ 5y agoYeah. Between the masks and the war I think people will look back on these pictures 20 years from now and scratch their heads
- oezi 5y agoSadly, it seems more russians are concerned about not getting a BILLY than standing up to Putin.
- esperent 5y agoIt's easy to point the finger when you're not the one facing the very real threat of 15 years in a Russian prison.
- delusional 5y agoThat's a fair point, but the state of their prisons and their political system is their responsibility, right? I have a lot of compassion and empathy for the situation the Russian people are in right now, but they did make the system they are currently living in. If they want it to stop, they are going to have to stop it.
- chayleaf 5y agois it our responsibility that we protested the regime, forcing Putin to ramp up the repressions, to strengthen the police? If so, I guess we should've just stood still and patiently wait for Putin to die of old age instead of attempting to change anything.
- delusional 5y agoThis is going to sound rough, and I don't actually mean it personally. As i said, i have a lot of compassion that this isn't easy, and I'm not sure I'd have the fortitude to do it either, BUT. It is your responsibility that Putin is in a position where he CAN ramp up repressions. YOU are the power he wields, and it's you that have to resist him. Without a population to preside over, the president is nothing. Without an army to fire the tanks, the tanks are just hunks of metal. Again, I don't want this to sound like a blame you. I understand that real life is more scary than some intellectual debate on HN, especially coming from a dude in western Europe, but philosophically I don't see who else holds the blame, because it's sure as hell not ONLY Putin.
- katcher 5y agoPutin is effectively unelected. Their election system is a multi-tiered hoax and just another method of deception. The alcoholic "President" before Putin had actual tanks firing at congress when things didn't go his way. Before that, communist supreme rulers who murdered those who opposed them. And their own party members to get the throne. Before that, Tsars, imperialist supreme rules who murdered those who opposed them. And their own family members to get the throne.
- delusional 5y agoI get it, dictatorship sucks, but the subjects of the dictator are the only people capable of dethroning him. The tanks aren't going to shoot themselves.
- hypertele-Xii 5y agoHow many countries' farmer populations overthrew militant dictators or monarchs at risk of death and dismemberment? All of Europe, pretty much? The entirety of the United States? "oh you can go to prison" is a pretty weak excuse.
- Joeri 5y agoIf spreading “fake news” about Putin could get you locked up for 15 years you might be equally disinclined to protest.
- thih9 5y agoThen again their neighbors have to live with things worse than jail.
- TheSpiceIsLife 5y agoDo you think that's going to stop when probably already over crowded Russian jails fill up with dissidents?
- delusional 5y agoDo you not think it's matter at all? Is history already completely laid out and unchangeable? Is the Russian people without any agency in their own lives and the life of their nation?
- TheSpiceIsLife 5y agoHow much more agency do you think being in jail grants one? No, I don't think Russians have much, if any, agency in the path their nation takes. For that matter, I don't think many Australians have much agency of Australia - all we get is representative democracy, and the selection of candidates seems to be almost entirely self-serving to the point of no longer even pretending to acting on behalf of those they represent. I understand that I'm able and capable to do more, I just not that interested in public life, I have an unsavoury criminal record, and the local media, owned by a media giant, already is quite fond of reminding everyone of things that happened nearly a decade a go any chance they get. I think one of three things is going to happen in Ukraine: either Putin gets what he wants, and Europe are ok with that; he doesn't, and a protracted proxy & guerilla war carries on for possibly decades; or lastly he is deposed by what amounts to an inside job. In neither of these three eventualities does and one, or a group of, average Russian's actions have much, if any, impact. My personal take is that within about three months Russia will have a new leader, although as often is the case in these situations, the new one will likely be worse than the old one.
- dkjaudyeqooe 5y agoOne gets you a bookshelf and the other gets you a jail cell. Do you really blame them?
- mkl95 5y agoA jail cell... or a bounty on your head https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31669061 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31669061
- aftergibson 5y agoJust like when the west stood up to the US Government and stopped the Iraq war? It's easy to point the finger when you're far from the reality.
- sto_hristo 5y agoTry the Vietnam proxy war. And any sensible and rational being with non-zero knowledge of Iraq and Saddam's transgressions against humanity should support the Iraq war which was all about toppling him. Since you're clearly not one of those, here's some homework to get you started: Halabja massacre, Kuwait invasion.
- jessaustin 5y agoDon't forget those babies getting thrown out of those incubators!
- cudgy 5y agoWord was Sadam killed 10,000 people during his reign, which is certainly abominable. US attack on Iraq killed over 10,000 people in several days
- aftergibson 5y agoHere's some for yourself to contemplate: The IBC project has recorded a range of at least 185,194 – 208,167 total violent civilian deaths through June 2020 in their database. Was this a justifying cost to toppling him? Was the decision the American Government's to make? Those events you mention are also a full 13 years before the war in Iraq started, why the delay, why end the gulf war? If my memory recalls, there was a lot of noise around WMDs at the time and questionable evidence for justification.
- sto_hristo 5y agoA lot of innocent civilians die in the process of toppling any eternal psychopathic dictator with firm grip on their country. The bloodbath of WW2 could have been completely avoided if Hitler was simply allowed to take a bunch of countries and kill some minorities. If that works for you then there is something awfully twisted about you. This, however, doesn't work for people under those regimes - the ones that actually get burned. Also, chemical weapons are WMDs - something Saddam had and used. More homework for you: Operation Opera. Left alone, this guy would be a more psychotic ME DPRK. It's hard to imagine that DPRK itself doesn't come close to Iraq under Saddam.
- egao1980 5y agoIt's actually not the last day but a temporary suspension. Russian market is quite large and attractive to likes of IKEA and they will try to return when the hype is over. But some would be displaced by that time by the other companies. We've seen this in 2014-2015.
- xvilka 5y agoWell, IKEA leaving is not a big issue - making furniture is easy and doesn't require high-tech. Thus, in one year or two nobody will even remember them. The industries that require technology, like electronics, biotechnology, healthcare - those will be permanently crippled, maybe completely eliminated.
- erichocean 5y agoPerhaps Russia can get electronics, biotechnology, and healthcare supplies where the US gets their's: China. Are Russia and China on good terms these days? Does Russia have anything to trade with China for yuan so they can buy those Chinese goods? I guess we'll find out. Or maybe the US tries to sanction China for freely trading with those evil Russians? Interesting times ahead…
- nine_k 5y agoChina produces a lot of interesting stuff! India, by the way, too. They are big trade partner of Moscow. China gladly buys a lot of Russian oil and natural gas, for instance. But China still can't produce certain high-end things. Say, a high-end server-class CPU is sort of problematic, event though ARM architecture allows to produce capable server CPUs. A powerful enough GPU is even harder to come by. I did not hear about high-capacity Chinese HDDs either. I suppose a lot of industries have such high-end goods that only 2-3 "Western" companies figured out how to produce. The embargo will hit hard in areas where such goods make a difference. I only hope that the embargo will be lifted soon, because the current regime in Russia seems unsustainable.
- erichocean 5y agoTrue, but China buys all of those "high-end things" in enormous quantities already. Can't they just resell them to Russia, if Russians (or anyone else) want to buy them? Without sanctioning China, I really don't see how the US and her allies can prevent most "normal" goods from making their way (eventually) to Russia. Hell, even IKEA is in China.
- mkl95 5y agoLife just became extremely boring for Russians.
- dpq 5y agoQuite the opposite, life became too exciting, in a bad way. Mr. Putin: invade and trash one country, get the second one trashed for free.
- mkl95 5y agoIt must be a bit shocking to lose access to basically every service that requires interacting with a Western economy while your country expects you to go about as usual. If you live in North Korea chances are you don't know any better. But Russians had access to the same things we do until a few days ago.
- chmod600 5y agoWondering out loud: Maybe a lot of these international brands exiting is more useful than some of the other sanctions. It hits the more wealthy, who lose a sense of status and feel left out of the world. That can't be good for Putin who is seeking glory.
- antishatter 5y agoThe Cold War ended when McDonald’s went up in red square. Now what?
- danielodievich 5y agoI went to that McDonalds about 3 months after it opened, it was a well planned family outings. It still is one of my favorite stories that I tell. The line was about an hour long. Once you got within 15 minutes of the doors, there were helpers who helped people who have never been with explanations of what to expect and how to order, and helped one plan an order. I got in and ordered a hamburger and Coke, and I remember being right next to a tall black guy which was still quite exotic there who was also ordering something. Our orders must have gotten crossed because I got cheesburger and clear Coke, which I was really surprised about and I now know was Sprite (and I actually like it more than Coke because of that first taste, even though I don't drink any). The meal was served with real metal cutlery and there were even plates involved that you could put your meal on, and was quite good. The government's allowing McDonalds to open was apparently stipulated on them sourcing their food locally, so the meat was actually meat, and tomatoes on the cheeseburger actually were tasting like something. We took the box that the hamburgers came from home to reuse, it was a sturdy paper box, but the cutlery you had to return. Definitely the best tasting McDonalds meal I ever had. The USA experience when I landed here in 1995 was just completely from another planet.
- burner556 5y agoThanks for sharing your experience! I really enjoyed reading it. Hope you like it here despite our problems and have a great weekend !
- 5y ago
- kyriakos 5y agoThey say every crisis is an opportunity. This could be a great opportunity for Russian owned brands to establish themselves and thrive later when the crisis is hopefully resolved.
- thelastknowngod 5y agoAnta is doing exactly this. With major labels refusing to use Xinjiang cotton, Anta has said they have no problem with it and are building an empire based on forced labor.
- drewcon 5y agoSure…but more than likely Russia is about to become thunderdome.
- kyriakos 5y agoI don't like getting into politics, but I believe the current situation is temporary, either will end up with a major political change in Russia or with a new cold war. Whichever the case for the local economy its like hitting the reset button.
- Galanwe 5y ago> either will end up with a major political change in Russia or with a new cold war. Agree for the former, but not with the latter. Though scientific and military advancements by Russia were possible during the cold war, in its current state and with the new sanctions, I don't think Russia will be able to cope with the rest of the world. IMHO it's more like there will be either a regime change or a new North Korea.
- threeseed 5y agoPutin is 69 in a country where average age at death is 73. So the most likely scenario is that the status quo remains until he passes away. At which point there would be an opportunity for a clean reset in relations.
- okareaman 5y agoI admire that Russians seems to be able to accept their fate and hope for a better future. I'm afraid this same scenario in a large American city would be pandemonium.
- antishatter 5y ago
- Borrible 5y agoYou mean hope for a better furniture, I suppose.
- Underphil 5y agoThey have not accepted their fate, at all. They just have no easy way to cheat that fate without getting arrested or imprisoned.
- AceyMan 5y agountil the LEOs don't get paid. Then, what ducks do they give? [thank you, spellchecker]. it may turn out to be the Paycheck Revolution (assuming rubles are worth anything within the borders in two weeks).
- Svoka 5y ago
- rr808 5y agoWhat I'm curious about all the sanctions is what if Russia changes? Say Putin quits or is killed and the replacement withdraws from Ukraine. Are we back on again?
- jacquesm 5y agoFor me the line to cross would be that Russia gives up their nuclear arms. They have shown that they are willing to use these for extortion rather than as a last means of defense, which I think should be enough to cause them to have to give these up.
- bagels 5y agoWhy would they ever give them up? Unless they get so thoroughly routed in a war that they have no choice, it just won't happen because it is the end of sovereignty.
- jacquesm 5y agoThere are plenty of sovereign countries that do not have nuclear weapons. It would be the end of the imperialist ambitions.
- ZeroGravitas 5y agoI feel like Russia breaking up into smaller states and then each state joining the eu on a long timescale once they meet various civic legal and economic targets is the kind of boring solution that will be fought for years and then happen once all other options have been exhausted. This war is really about Ukraine (even the Russian speaking parts, the anti-Nato, Anti-EU people in Ukraine) thinking they'd rather be part of the EU once they get their civic society sorted than immediately be a corrupt part of Russia.
- raverbashing 5y agoI'd favour putting the eastern Russia parts under the umbrella of China if they weren't happy to go buddy buddy with Putin. So I dunno, give it to Japan. Or Korea. Gift Koningsberg to Ukraine.
- c7DJTLrn 5y agoSeems like more people are rushing to IKEA than to protest.
- deltaoneseven 5y ago
- bitwise101 5y agoGo visit the homepage of this newspaper. It's crazy, there's no clear reference to war or attacks. This article on Ikea is just an attempt to tell the desperation without breaking the censorship law.
- ranieuwe 5y agoThey were told to censor or be sued. They removed any postings of war after that. Novaya Gazeta is a newspaper critical of current Russian affairs.
- dillondoyle 5y agoSued? Sounds like far worse.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- deepsun 5y ago15 years imprisonment to anyone related.
- bitwise101 5y agoYes, I understood immediately the position of the newspaper browsing a bit the site. There are a lot of comments here talking about Ikea, Russian alternatives and business opportunities. I think they are somehow missing the point
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- squarefoot 5y agoThey know they risk a lot more than being sued. Novaya Gazeta is also the newspaper the journalist, and Putin's strong critic, Anna Politkovskaya wrote for before being murdered on Oct 7 2006. Note that Oct 7 is the birthday of Vladimir Putin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya
- tiku 5y agoI was wondering, how much of a percentage of visitors knows about the war and is against it?
- usr1106 5y agoA very high percentage. You are in Moscow and the customers have income well over Russian median. They speak foreign languages. There are over 100 millions over Russians that live in a very different world, for those the percentage will be different.
- bigDinosaur 5y agoOn the other hand, does the political opinion of anyone in Russia actually matter outside of Moscow?
- d1sxeyes 5y agoMassively. Those people are majority Putin appeals to to win elections.
- pvaldes 5y agoAn Mango, H&M and many other. They say that foreign companies operating in Russia were required by the Putin's government to change their euros for rubles in three days if they want to stand open. Closing is the logical choice.
- Aeolun 5y agoSo all the companies collectively shrugged their shoulders and said “Ok, bye.” I really don’t know what he was going for here.
- delegate 5y agoPhotos of queues in shops and empty shelves is the only resistance left. Any non-official information about the war is punishable with 15 years in prison camps. What's happening in Ukraine is a tragedy, but what's happening in Russia as a result of sanctions is quite tragic in itself. Currency is in free fall, hundreds of companies closed shops and offices, many will lose their jobs, etc. This will hit marriages and relationships. Men become depressed and paralyzed when they lose their incomes. So just like in the 90s, the economic collapse will hit women of Russia hard. The smartest and most beautiful women - aka the ones used to live in abundance who got all the attention, etc will try to leave the country. 'Russian' is now quite a bad word for anyone in Europe, so women will have a hard time finding and maintaining European men (of course any men will take a beautiful woman for sex, but providing for her long term is another thing). They say war is men protecting their women and children from the invading men. But in this situation there will be Russian women who leave their men for foreign men. As much as I disagree with Russia's actions and even if the majority of Russians support the war (are afraid of the criminals running the country), I still feel sad for what these families are about to experience this year.
- _ph_ 5y agoYes, I do feel sad for the Russian population. From the start of the invasion, I knew how much collateral damage Russia would take and that the damage done would last for decades. But then, the country of Russia is invading and destroying Ukraine right now. Just because no one bombs Russia, you cannot assume there are not damages to the country. The obvious way out would be massive public resistance to end this quickly. Also, this should be a warning to any people who currently feel the temptation to elect a government which is basically fighting democracy. The effect in Russia is obvious, but it isn't as if there aren't such tendencies in other countries. Just watch which political parties try to discredit free media and you have a good first indicator.
- 2xpress 5y agoMaybe you got down-voted by pissed-off Russian men, but your prediction regarding what will happen in the Russian society is spot on. The problem with the alcoholism and prostitution over there has already been pretty bad, but now it will of course get much much worse. Unfortunately, so far in history Russia has only been a one huge long tragedy. Navalny gave a speech at his kangaroo trial that his wish is that Russia be happy. Maybe some day they might eventually figure out how to make that happen. But maybe not. 50 / 50 chance perhaps. But the next best thing would be that Russia does not spread tragedy to all other countries with radioactive fallout, and also no way to say for sure if that might happen or not, but does look likely.
- jdrc 5y agoThese kind of photos always impress me about the number of people who are on their phones. We dont live in countries anymore, we live in screens with our legs on some kind of ground. I hope it's not irreversibly long until these stores can be reopened. We should stop pretending we re living in the cold war era, world is always new. Russia has shown itself to be an irresponsible holder of nukes. After the fall of putin regime it has to rejoin the rest of the world as just a 'country'
- neverminder 5y agoThey may be spending much less time on their phones soon. The apps in Russia are shutting down like falling dominoes. Same goes for phone sales.
- nirav72 5y agoI wonder if the reliance on external services for apps to function will eventually force Russia to accelerate isolating their internet infrastructure. I know they've been attempting to do that. But now this might be the impetus.
- waffleiron 5y ago> Russia has shown itself to be an irresponsible holder of nukes. In which way, so far only a single country has used nuclear weapons in war, and it’s not Russia.
- jdrc 5y agoin using the rules-based order (its right to threaten people with nukes) to break this rules-based order
- Aeolun 5y agoTo be fair, they just happened to be the only ones with nukes at the time. Someone had to try it sometime to figure out exactly how horrible it would be. It’s much preferable that it happened with a 20kt bomb, as opposed to a 20Mt one.
- sakopov 5y agoNot sure yet if this is shaping up to be another round of wild 90s or Stalinist times in Russia. It's kind of looking like a bizarre mix of both with political incarcerations back in play and government shutting down press. To piss away 2 decades of progress in 1 week is pretty unbelievable. Hard to believe that Putin did not see this coming...
- _HMCB_ 5y agoYou ever get the feeling people will finally say enough is enough?
- sAbakumoff 5y agoContemporary Russia started with the line to McDonald's in 1990, and ended with the line to Ikea in 2022.
- nikolay 5y agoHow is Russia losing by having one less importer? By the way, I still see ads of McDonald's, KFC, and M&Ms on Russian TV. I think this would actually improve Russia's economy. And the TV is actually constantly reporting on the war. I bought an online subscription just so that I can see the Russian state's points. By US censoring Russia, they made it fair so that Russia censors back in response, i.e. hurting the Russians in Russia to hypothetically hurt Russians outside of Russia - it was the typicall knee-jerk and "mee too" move that does nothing positive at the end.
- d1sxeyes 5y agoSeems a bit disingenuous to run adverts asking for contributions like: 'Делаем честную журналистику вместе с вами' Tell us you need help, but don't make claims that you clearly aren't fulfilling.
- IYasha 5y agoReading all these comments on every side (US, UA, RU, etc.) I mostly see the same - people discuss anything except key questions: why did US sanction the military action (what makes them)? Why did Russian Federation changed its course of actions so radically in 2017? Why did RU change its coat of arms on money? Did the SU really cease to exist? What was considered "Russia" during last 100-500 years (and what US)? It's one of a few "countries" that influence the whole world and those processes didn't start a decade or a hundred years ago. And current conflict is a publicly visible link in the long and entangled chain of geopolitical moves. There are great analytics in both US/RU who dug deep to the roots of WW2 and many other wars who are being equally hated by both US and RU governments/deep state. And I sincerely hope there'll be more understanding people. We just need to seriously catch up. Wars are made to cut human population, divide and disperse people. Please don't get dragged into that. I have friends from all around the world, and I WANT to have friends from all around the world, and I will. (sorry, I'm not in a position to answer those questions directly, I just want people of all nations to think globally, regardless of pen-drawn borders, otherwise, one by one...)
- abandonliberty 5y agoI got lost in your word soup. Messy writing often implies messy thinking. Beware conspiracy theories. Yes, there's almost always more going on than you see in the news. Russia's strategy has stayed remarkably true to The Foundations of Geopolitics, a 25-year old book. One of it's core principles is dividing the US from Europe. Nato is a clear threat to that. >Ukraine should be annexed by Russia . . . Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible. >The United Kingdom . . . should be cut off from Europe. >France should be encouraged to form a bloc with Germany >The book stresses the "continental Russian–Islamic alliance" >Georgia should be dismembered. . . Georgia's independent policies are unacceptable. >Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
- YaBomm 5y ago