16 ms·

Can you warm yourself with your mind?

241 points by NoRagrets 5y ago

hypertele-Xii 5y ago
Information processing in the brain burns most of the energy we intake. Computation produces heat as a side product. Therefore you can warm yourself with your mind, simply by thinking more.
- ajuc 5y ago
  Is it established that consciously thinking more uses more power? On a CPU with no frequency scaling nor power levels it doesn't matter if you do useful work or while(true) - it takes as much energy to do both.
  - csee 5y ago
    It is established. People tasked with doing a difficult mental task burn a lot more calories. But I don't think it's known if it's the thinking per se, or the stress associated with it.
    - gambiting 5y ago
      We know this affects race car drivers especially - the mental efford of driving the car at high speeds gets their heads to dangerous temperatures. But yes, you are correct - it could be "just" the stress too.
    - anentropic 5y ago
      https://www.science.org/content/article/scientist-busts-myths-about-how-humans-burn-calories-and-why https://www.science.org/content/article/scientist-busts-myth...
  - ben_w 5y ago
    I remember reading (but can’t find references) that watching soap operas burns less calories than watching paint dry because your mind wanders more when you have nothing to engage it, and separately that high-end chess players burned a lot of calories despite sitting almost motionless during their games. The urban legend of “you only use 10% of your brain” isn’t true, but the thing it was based on was closer to the caveat “while relaxing”.
    - neaden 5y ago
      The chess thing was based on a misconception. Someone measured chess players heart rate and saw that it was increased, then compared that pulse rate to athletes training and basically said they must be burning as many calories since they had the same heart rate. This study gives a much more reasonable estimate of calorie expenditure: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23455094_The_stress_of_chess_players_as_a_model_to_study_the_effects_of_psychological_stimuli_on_physiological_responses_An_example_of_substrate_oxidation_and_heart_rate_variability_in_man https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23455094_The_stress...
      - ben_w 5y ago
        Neat, thanks for the update :)
  - can16358p 5y ago
    Don't know if directly related or something else but in cold I can think much more clearly, creative, and have "higher computational output". In heat my brain stops, I can't think clearly and all the ideas are "foggy". I always had this personal and funny analogy in my mind of CPU thermal throttling where brain works more slowly in heat to prevent generating more heat.
- 0_____0 5y ago
  20% is a baseline figure for proportion of calories that go to the brain. If only you could warm yourself by running 3DMark!
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- alfiedotwtf 5y ago
  is this actually true? i would have thought the Gluteus Maximus would burn the most by a factor compared to the brain?
  - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
    Apparently no, it's false, sorry. Looks like it's actually about 20%.
- csee 5y ago
  This is speculation as to whether it explains the effects described in the article.
familymart 5y ago
Ever get super mad? Same thing.
- sebastianconcpt 5y ago
  That is also a way to make the body warm but I think the case is to do it somehow voluntarily and not as an emotional reaction that prepares your body for flight/fight.
  - familymart 5y ago
forgotmypw17 5y ago
I think this article is about the Wim Hof Method, although the site's design kept me from reading it. I've done a workshop with a WHM instructor, and for anyone wanting to try it, there are three key points I would say. (Note, that I am not an instructor myself, I've only done one workshop and practiced myself.) This works not just when going swimming in cold water or taking an ice water dip, but also in cold weather when you're not dressed warm enough to be comfortable. Deep breathing. Not slow, but full and continuous inhaling and exhaling to the boundaries of lung capacity. Physically and mentally relaxing. Shivering is a way to generate heat through motion. To counter it, and stimulate chemical heat generation, relax all the muscles. To relax mentally, something like breath meditation. Mental/visual. Imagine being warm, like on a hot beach laying on the sand. Hope this anecdata helps someone. I wouldn't count on it replacing warm clothes, but it's nice in a pinch.
- mettamage 5y ago
  > Deep breathing. Not slow, but full and continuous inhaling and exhaling to the boundaries of lung capacity. In is full, out is normal. Disclaimer: I've trained 4 days with Wim for one of his landmark experiments. I was one of the guinea pigs.
  - forgotmypw17 5y ago
    Thank you
  - nkzd 5y ago
    Has this experience and things you learned along the way helped you in your life?
    - mettamage 5y ago
      Yep, whenever I do not want to feel cold, I can. Note: I wouldn't describe it as feeling warm. In fact, I'd describe it as a pretty adrenaline-like state [1]. That adrenaline-like state is much more comfortable than feeling cold. It's super practical to have this when you think about it, the weather's got nothing on me! It's really tough for me to feel unhappy about the weather, because whenever I do, I can use my superpower and go from a chilly/shivery person to a person that can suddenly handle -5 degrees celsius in their shorts (with shoes on though). The only thing that still annoys me is rain and hail at times. But as a chilly/shivery person the issue was always cold temperatures for me. That issue is gone. I say it with surprise because I still think it sounds crazy. Before 2014 it had such an impact on my life and suddenly all that misery just drops to zero. Spiritually though, I didn't notice a lot, I'd rather stick to meditation for that. And whatever people may say, IMO, the Wim Hof Method is not a meditation. It's a combination of two breathing techniques + an optimistic trained/taught mentality about the cold being your friend. Oh, I also sometimes use it as a natural painkiller when I don't have one on me and start to get a headhache. You know since the adrenaline-like state includes some actual adrenaline [1] :) One "issue" with the WHM is that you need to keep doing it to stay in the state. It otherwise wains after 5 minutes or so. Because of this, it's impossible for me to be social in a normal sense, since breathing in a very specific way + talking at the same time is about as tough as beatboxing while singing (which I know how to do as well :P). Which means: it requires a lot of practice and trickery. [1] Research shows you get a lot of adrenaline in. It's in the publication I was a guinea pig for: https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/111/20/7379.full.pdf https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/111/20/7379.full.pdf
can16358p 5y ago
I know I can. Just with thoughts and meditation. Actually I though everyone could do it and was surprised that this is even newsworthy. I expose myself to cold since my childhood (check out Wim Hof method for some practical examples and the scientific explanation) and can heat myself when I need it. I remember some memories where I had a dog, he was cold and shaking after swimmimg, embracing him. He still kept shaking and when I thought of a thing that made me feel warm (kind of shivering/vibrating feeling) and goosebumps he immediately stopped shaking. After a few seconds he starts shaking again. Repeat this process on countless occasions, always the same result.
- thanatos519 5y ago
  Nothing beat personal experience, right? If you're in tune with your body, you can warm yourself and others by projecting heat.
  - can16358p 5y ago
    Yup. I totally know what works as I've experienced things myself. But it's kind of hard to set up scientific methodology to prove things with n = (enter convincing amount of subjects) where there are many subjective sides in the experiment (e.g. Thinking of something that makes you shiver/goosebump is hard to apply at scale as for many that is result of something subjective and different for each individual) I'd love to see some organization to set up an experiment though.
    - krageon 5y ago
      > it's kind of hard to set up scientific methodology to prove things Why would you? It works, it's a teachable method. To my mind, the inquiry doesn't have to progress far beyond that. Unless perhaps you value doing things solely for knowledge, which is something academia stopped doing ages ago (and arguably never really did).
    - throwaway675309 5y ago
      False, it's not difficult at all to set up even minimally rigorous scientific experiment. Now you might not like the results that you gather from the experiment, so I would imagine that it's in your best interest to not pursue and gather actual objective evidence. Take an infrared thermometer, point it at the part of your body that you're visualizing heating up. Observe the results. Took me five seconds to come up with this experiment.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sdoering 5y ago
> "results must be interpreted with caution given the low subject number and the fact that both participants practised the g-Tummo like breathing technique." [0] Wim Hof not only claims that his method will keep one warm, but also a lot of other health benefits. Very few of these have any scientific backing. Hyperventilation's effects on inflammatory responses are well known. His claims regarding arthritis, MS or even Parkinson's are not only spurious at best to be kind in wording. I would personally call them bullshit. There is just no scientific evidence at all for these claims. Ensuring through deep breath that your chest muscles are moving and warming and by that warming your blood is nice - but not more. There are no studies scientifically researching the method with multiple subjects. Only studies that look at him (and his twin). So we have "studies" with n=2 and massive claims from him. While he sells his books/seminars/method. People have died attempting the Wim Hof Method (one example [1]). To me - this person is good at PR. Knows how to sell these days. And how to be a personal brand. I have to give credit for that. [0]: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23328940.2017.1329001 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23328940.2017.1... [1]: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/wim-hof-breathing-method-coroner-man-drown-2436121 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/wim-hof-breathing-...
- hammock 5y ago
  >People have died attempting the Wim Hof Method (one example [1]). Does WH recommend using his method for breath-holding underwater? (I don't know) Hyperventilation causing deaths underwater is well-known and not specific to WHM
  - Panino 5y ago
    > Does WH recommend using his method for breath-holding underwater? (I don't know) No, he explicitly says don't do that. Just one example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzCaZQqAs9I&t=56s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzCaZQqAs9I&t=56s
- colordrops 5y ago
  Not having a scientific study backing something by default makes it bullshit? Was mindfulness meditation bullshit until scientists stamped it with their approval? It seems that a proper scientific mindset would declare something neither true nor false until a study is done.
sebastianconcpt 5y ago
An ex I had knew I had a way to do it voluntarily and in cold days she came all over me and asked me to do it so she can "steal" heat from my body.
- winnit 5y ago
  Might be worth rewording that, I guess you mean 'she was all over me'?. 'Came all over me' makes it sound like she ejaculated all over you.
  - sebastianconcpt 5y ago
    Indeed. Can't edit the comment tho. Great native speaking feedback because indeed although she liked it a lot, it wasn't enough to make her squirt.
new_guy 5y ago
Wim Hof is a party trick for children. Pranayama is a science that's thousands of years old. It's much better to go directly to the source than some bastardised commercialised western version: http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath.pdf http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath....
- can16358p 5y ago
  Thanks to that "bastardized commercial" version I'd actually learned about Pranayama, which I probably would have never discovered if there wasn't Wim Hof.
- ben_w 5y ago
  The important difference between “ancients knew a true thing” and “science” is that ancients also believed a lot of things that were not true and didn’t even have a way to find out which was which. Sometimes, and non-scientists everywhere do this, the truth is intermixed with the false so deeply that the truth is even used as evidence for the false.
  - darkerside 5y ago
    The ego of thinking nothing is true until Western science has proven it as such. This reeks of Columbus discovering America.
    - ben_w 5y ago
      > nothing is true until Western science has proven it as such That’s not even remotely what I said. First, true things are true even if no human has learned them. Second, science is not just western. China, India, Japan, both Koreas all have their own space programs, for example. Third, the west was nothing special until it started applying (proto-) scientific methods. Miasma, spontaneous generation, demonology, etc. were all common false beliefs that scientific investigation disabused. Fouth, science doesn’t even try to prove anything true, all it tries to filter out falsehoods to a reasonable likelihood — “Does substance X have an effect?” a non-scientist may imagine a scientist doing some tests and “proving” it works, but the reality is closer to “Null hypothesis means it is indistinguishable from the absence, alternative hypothesis is that it is different from the absence, can we reasonably reject the null hypothesis with this quantity of evidence?” This last one is key, and why the west isn’t e.g. trying to conquer literal Hell in the name of Jehova etc.
microjim 5y ago
Found this part funny: > As I contemplated whether it could help me cope with the cold, it occurred to me that using this sacred technique to avoid discomfort might not be in line with its origins in Buddhism, a religion in which suffering is acknowledged and accepted. Buddhism is all about the complete cessation of suffering, so that part’s not technically correct. The Buddha did talk a lot about renouncing physical comforts and not creating unnecessary suffering in harsh environments, though. The core body temperature part of this phenomenon is actually the less interesting part here. It’s not too mind boggling that activating certain nervous pathways will stimulate certain metabolic activity and perhaps alter blood flow via hormonal means. Where it’s really cool (read: even more practically useful in your everyday life) is to explore the effects on the mind. It’s not controversial to claim that picturing a warm fire inside your body will bring some degree mental comfort in cold or very cold conditions. However for most people, this would hard to sustain. One would look around, see the snow, remember how thin one’s clothing is, and be interrupted with the cold sensations making contact with the skin. Further thoughts about how cold it is are likely to arise, and the nice belly fire and the comfort it provided is no more. One might even start to imagine the lack of warm blood going to the extremities, the cold penetrating down to the bones, and frostbite setting in, even if that's not the case yet. It’s easy to imagine how, with a trained mind, one might have a greater ability to sustain this internal mental fabrication (buddhism calls this saṅkhāra) of an internal fire. Not only strengthening it and maintaining attention on it, but de-prioritising the amount of mental activity devoted to thinking about how cold it is (i.e. mental fabrications around the cold - like it reaching the bones). Why it's useful to explore this, is to consider that in ordinary life we are doing this sort of thing constantly - it's simply that it's to a lesser degree, and in subtler ways. The implications of that to our quality of life are enormous. Ever notice how the world looks different when when something good happens, or you are feeling optimistic, versus when things aren't going so well and you're more pessimistic? The extent to which we put together our experience, and, by extension, how we can begin to have some influence over that as a conscious process is sorely, sorely underestimated.
blunte 5y ago
Writing for the sake of writing. But I'll get to that in a moment... "the dog has to be pushed outside" What? No, if it's that cold, you keep the dog against your body, and you both benefit. Anyway, in these times of competition for attention, the written word is losing. Therefore, it is increasingly important that what is written is succinct and meaningful. This "article" talks about stuff without reaching a conclusion. It's like a trailer for a movie that doesn't exist. Yes, people have demonstrated that they can gain some level of control over their own calorie burn for self-heating. How they do it is still a mystery, just as how much of the mind works is still a mystery. Tell us how. Don't say, "Oh here are some more people who do it" in 2000 words.
- a9dhalaan 5y ago
  Yea, the article quickly lost my attention so i scrolled to the bottom and read the last 2 paragraphs hoping for a meaningful answer to the articles question, but no luck. Can someone who has the time to read this summarize it for the rest of us?
  - nuclearnice1 5y ago
    > succinct has never been the New Yorker house style. I agree more how would be a treat. I assume Kozhevnikov’s agreement to keep the how confidential was an impediment. But a couple things I noted: * G-tummo meditation, she went on, is not a state of relaxation but arousal. She thinks it may increase blood flow to the brain. G-tummo is difficult, requiring years of dedication to master. * Try “visualizing your fingers in hot water, or yourself in a hot environment,” There is more how in the corresponding Plos one article https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0058244 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
    - blunte 5y ago
      Perhaps our natural inability to control our low-level biological systems is on average better at keeping us alive. After all, if we could control any system without really understanding all the interactions and repercussions, we probably would die accidentally more often.
alfanick 5y ago
Anecdotal data [on sample of one, me]: while I don't think I can warm myself with my mind, I clearly can ignore cold. I feel it's cold, but it's not uncomfortable or painful for me. I'm doing this daily since hmm 10 or more years - walking in shorts, t-shirt, almost all year long (something longer if it's cold, cold meaning less than -15C or less than -3C and extremely windy). Similar story with rain - just get wet, it's fine. Hiking, running in one layer instead of 3 layers as most folks would do... It helps me with overheating which I tend to a lot. I have also a simple recipe if I'm actually feeling cold - just do whatever you do faster (your muscles generate a lot of heat as a by-product), no need for extra layers. Lately I also monitor my core body temperature when doing any kind of activities - definitely not getting cold inside even though I'm "underdressed" by popular opinion. (Note I'm also not a risk taker, so in extreme conditions I always have some backup layers with me, in case "do whatever you do faster" method could not be implemented anymore). I wouldn't give anyone any advice out of this though, I'm not a medical professional.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  I have this thought that your mindset will affect your sensitivity and body reaction. If you're eager for something, the cons feel less so, and it probably triggers a positive reaction. When outside in the cold, if I'm mentally low, I start to crumple and shiver.. but when I'm up.. I don't care much and just move more so to get warmer.
- crismiquelg 5y ago
  This sounds like a dream to me. Feel like I can do the opposite: try to ignore heat while cold... I just start shaking.
- tluyben2 5y ago
  I have the same thing; I can focus and just ignore the cold or the heat. I guess practicing focus and lucid dreaming (both require mental discipline I think) where good for something.
  - alfanick 5y ago
    With heat unfortunately I cannot do as much as with cold - I need moreless two weeks in the heat to acclimate correctly and then my performance is somewhere close to non-hot-weather performance (I'm a runner). But unfortunately at some moment this also stops working when I'm doing some very high effort - active cooling is required (aka splash yourself with water, ice etc). In some conditions (especially hot+humid) human built-in active cooling mechanism also doesn't work well - sweating is awesome, but sweat no longer evaporates effectively in humid conditions. I also say it's easier in cold - you could always put more clothes on you if need them, but in the heat? There is only as much clothes as you can take off. I'd agree it's somehow mental discipline - I can also ignore pain, it's there, but well I don't have to act on it, it does not have to have any reaction. It used to be a cool party trick back when I was a teenager... Again, not a medical professional, if you experience pain, it's body trying to tell you something is wrong, most likely you should listen to it.
mettamage 5y ago
Disclaimer: I've met Wim and was one of his guinea pigs in this experiment [2]. The best proof I have for that is that I've claimed this for years on HN ;-) We trained for 4 days in Poland. The hardest challenge I did was climbing up a mountain in my shorts + shoes + socks for 2.5 hours at -7 degrees. I did not have frostbite in the end, none of us did. We did the Harlem Shake (that was a thing back then). I also asked a ton of questions to the researchers back then. From what I've read, g-tummo is very likely not the Wim Hof Method. I've never trained with a monk claiming to know g-tummo. The son of Wim Hof loudly told me "The Wim Hof Method is not Tummo!" (almost a direct quote from memory, probably paraphrased). So I'd argue that back in 2014 or whenever it was, they were of the opinion it was something else. I'd be willing to bet they've never met a g-tummo monk either :) A good medical YT vid on the WHM [1]. From my experiential point of view: the WHM doesn't warm your body, you simply don't get cold, nor do you feel cold (you're too high on adrenaline to have any normal sense of temperature). Sometimes I did feel a warmth boost, but that's not the main "working thing" behind his method. I use it whenever I need an adrenaline boost, or don't want to feel cold. When is it handy or fun to get an adrenaline boost on purpose (my experience)? 1. When you have a headache (free painkiller when nothing is lying around) 2. When you're at a party (no drugs needed, the WHM is a drug in its own right) 3. When you're having sex (a lot of adrenaline kinda changes your personality a bit :) ) 4. When you're cold [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6EPuUdIC1E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6EPuUdIC1E [2] https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/111/20/7379.full.pdf https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/111/20/7379.full.pdf
- mtalantikite 5y ago
  I'd also agree that Wim Hof breathing is not Tummo, although who knows if there are some similar biological processes that happen as a result of the two methods. My experience with the Wim Hof breathing is similar to yours though, it's a nice reset button and can make your body feel a lot better when you're in pain or feeling cloudy. It's funny that you mention using it for sex, because Tummo is often a preliminary for Karmamudra practice too. As for Tummo, generally there are a lot of preliminary practices you need to go through before being taught it, which can take the practitioner a lot of time and is probably why you don't see it around in lay communities in the west. For instance, the preliminary practice of ngondro can take people something like 6 months in full retreat to finish, or years if mixed in to daily life. The Yuthok Nyingthig lineage of Tibetan medicine practitioners does things on faster timelines though, in my experience. [1] [2] My acupuncturist is a former monk and teaches Tummo to small groups here in NYC from time to time, although he hasn't done it in a while and I didn't find out about him until after the last group of his had started. You'd still probably want to have had a daily meditation practice and some physical yoga asana practice before beginning I'd imagine -- just sitting in the 7-point posture of Vairochana that you see the monks from the article sitting in requires a pretty open body to get into and maintain. The first time I took a course in Tibetan Nejang I had difficulty with maintaining that arm and shoulder position, even after years of sitting every day in padmasana. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuthok_Nyingthig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuthok_Nyingthig [2] https://purelandfarms.com/ https://purelandfarms.com/
PaulHoule 5y ago
I had a psychogenic fever last year and lost about 10 pounds in the course of two weeks that I kept off for months. I've been thinking how to do it again but haven't had a good idea on how. I've tried biofeedback with a thermometer that goes under my tongue but I could really use one that records continuously.
cameronh90 5y ago
I can't warm myself with my mind, but I do get cold when I have an anxiety attack, and I can cause myself pain by thinking about it - pretty much at will, anywhere in my body. Is that a superpower?
njx 5y ago
I meditate almost daily for roughly 2+ hours and during that period I can feel waves of heat passing through the entire body. The solar center is located just below the navel. If you focus in the naval area you can generate heat. I don't practice to generate heat but certainly see that as a side effect. I wonder if these Monks and Yogis can stay warm the entire day or just during the meditation practices
tartoran 5y ago
How about the reverse, can one cool themselves with only the sole power of their mind?
MSFT_Edging 5y ago
I've noticed that when I'm doing a very mentally intensive task, such as focusing all my energy on reading sheet music, converting that to notes, chords, positions, and finger style picking patterns, I warm up considerably. Since I don't keep up with it regularly, every return is very mentally exhausting and I'll end up sweating with no ambient temperature change. I have no doubt its possible to trick the mind into re-regulating.
fristechill 5y ago
Intuitively the converse seems to be true: getting into a hot bath, the muscles relax, the arteries relax and the mind goes merrily off to the races with interesting ideas. Presumably because it is freed from a certain amount of its bodily management duties.
988747 5y ago
Well, certainly you can FEEL warm - it takes just a little practice before you can relax enough for your blood vessels in your skin to expand. Nothing special about this, I've done that many times before, while waiting at the bus stop, for example. Problem is: in the longer term you will die from cold FASTER this way - you are basically just wasting your heat by dispersing it.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
adamsmith143 5y ago
efitz 5y ago
Related, but not the same. I’ve suffered from migraines since puberty. In my teens, I received biofeedback training and it turns out I was pretty good at it. Biofeedback is a relaxation technique; training involves hooking you up to a device that measures galvanic potential in your skin and converts it to an audio tone. Stress and relaxation have opposite effects on a number of measurable body phenomena including skin resistance, skin (extremity) temperature, heart rate, and others. I’ve practiced biofeedback regularly since and can rapidly lower my heart rate and increase my skin temperature at will. I wouldn’t depend on it to ward off frostbite but I usually don’t need gloves and my wife gets jealous that my hands and feet are almost always warm.
grimoald 5y ago
Regarding the Arctic ground squirrels: > the water inside the squirrels becomes a supercooled liquid. Does that mean that if you grab a squirrel and shake it, it freezes instantly?
mproud 5y ago
> G-tummo meditation, she went on, is not a state of relaxation but arousal. This actually makes total sense.
2-718-281-828 5y ago
tummo or not. breating techniques exist for thousands of years. it's a repackaged and simplified interpretation of Pranayama, Tummo, anything he happened to stubmle upon. And WH is not very much scientifically inclined. He has been several times repeating the idea that hyperventilation provides the body with more oxygen. The opposite is true (Bohr effect). Also he reinterpretes subduing an immunological response with beating an infection. His experiment involved a harmless bacteria which causes immunological response but no detrimental effects on health. His son is is Chief Marketing Officer - also obvious from several videos. Of course he'll say whatever benefits the trademark. In one (I think) Vice episode he presents a friend of his with cancer thanking WH for helping him with the method. He died from cancer. WHM is a neat little technique with lots of bells and whistles attached to hit. No more no less. I enjoy applying it from time to time for what it's worth. But don't expect any revelations or enlightenment. And I never had an experience coming even remotely close to a DMT trip. There are many similar techniques btw - they all boil down to hyperventilate, then stop and let CO2 build up (some with lungs empty some with lungs filled) and have oxygen be released to the cells in a little Oxygen shower. The more you read and think about it the less exciting it gets. It's nice - yes - but very limited. Much more healthy in the long run is slow breathing. But it's not as exciting and it's not marketed by a would-be-shaman who rambles on about philosophical ideas and curses all the time.
amriksohata 5y ago
Tummo is nothing but another type of Yoga that originated from India before Tibet, from Hindu sages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo Tummo is also a tantric practice for inner heat, developed around the concept of the female deity.[1][3][4] It is found in the Six Dharmas of Naropa, Lamdre, Kalachakra. and Anuyoga teachings of Vajrayana. The purpose of tummo is to gain control over body processes during the completion stage of 'highest yoga tantra' (Anuttarayoga Tantra) or Anuyoga.
borroka 5y ago
From the fascinating book "Autohypnosis and Autogenic Training" by Dr. Klaus Thomas (not available in English, I translated it) Temperature adaptation It has long been known, especially thanks to WEIZSÄCKER's experiments of over 100 years ago, that under hypnosis the feeling of well-being and skin reactions are determined not by the actual external temperature but by the subjective setting. Exercise under progressively more difficult conditions is not presupposed. Spectacular demonstrations are particularly dangerous in this field. If the hypnotist for "stage requirements" makes his subject face enormous temperature changes in the space of a few minutes (in one case I personally observed 60 degrees Celsius), profuse sweating with copious elimination of liquid is followed by a sensation of intense cold: a drastic procedure that, in addition to exposing to infection, almost necessarily involves more serious diseases, rheumatic for example. Instead, gradual habituation gives rise to almost absolute independence from external temperatures. For example, for over 20 years I have endured the hot-humid climate of the Earth's most torrid areas and extreme temperature changes without feeling ill or getting sick. I can safely say this having lived in the tropics for several months. Therefore, I will report how my gradual adaptation unfolded. Since 1945 I have eliminated my hat or cap in winter. If necessary (even while walking) I would repeat: "Ears, nose and skin of the head are and remain pleasantly warm." After two years, I was forced to cover my ears for a few minutes only infrequently, at times of extreme cold. Since 1946 gradual elimination of the coat with the formula: "The skin is pleasantly warm, the cold is strongly indifferent to me". Since 1948 the stimulating action of the cold air on the skin gives me pleasure; since 1949 I have not contracted a cold since a stay of no more than thirty minutes in the cold air, while a stay in a relaxed sitting position in a too cool working environment is still unpleasant for me. Since 1950 elimination of gloves, at first with the formula: "Hands stay pleasantly warm". After two years, adaptation to the temperature was established automatically, without the formula. In total, it took me seven years to achieve almost absolute independence from the outside temperature. For sensitive individuals, special complementary formulas are recommended, for example: "The air ride leaves me completely indifferent". In the humid heat of the tropics, the formula renders good services: "The skin stays dry and cool". When it is very hot, sweating, as a natural defense mechanism, should not be suppressed; therefore the formula is indicated: "Sweat leaves me completely indifferent". In a patient threatened by the danger of overheating (heat stroke) the self-induced deep sleep acted favorably. In 1960, during a car trip of many hours through the Sahara desert, with a temperature inside the car of more than 80 degrees, I was helped by the formulas: "I feel good, pleasantly calm and cool >> and "I sleep hard and deeply">. Typical phenomenon, during the whole trip extremely realistic iced drinks. On arrival, I was the only one (out of 20 participants) who was free of ailments. After drinking twelve bottles of ice-cold lemonade, I was immediately able to work, while all the others had to go to bed. The most important general formulas would be: "The skin remains pleasantly cool" "Heat is strongly indifferent to me". The effects of autogenic training on temperature adaptation in people who have been practicing for years can be summarized as follows: Low or high temperatures are not bothersome; additional clothing or air conditioning systems, at least for time-limited temperature changes, are unnecessary; common colds or infections do not occur or become very rare (to the author, for 25 years).
koreanguy 5y ago
autohnacc 5y ago
There is a meditation technique common in Europe called Autogenic Training that is focused on warming up parts of the body as its central technique. There's a lot of evidence for its efficacy.
- borroka 5y ago
  Warmth is the second (and fifth) of the six steps of "basic" AT: heaviness of limbs, warmth all over thee body, heart beating strong and regularly, breathing (many formulas), warm solar plexus (or irradiating heat), cool forehead, with the optional warm head and shoulders before the cool forehead. I've been trying for a few years to get friends engage with TA, given the extraordinary benefits I've gained from regular practice (I've thought about writing a simple guide to TA, something that is missing in English), but “meditation practice" in the broad sense seems to capture people's imaginations better. Oddly enough, I might add, since TA is easy to understand and "scientific," while meditation is rooted in an anachronistic spirituality, with sources, even modern ones, that are largely incomprehensible*, and gurus/guides that are terribly unappealing and look like they are living outside this world. *Right Concentration was recommended for understanding jhanas, but I found it a very challenging reading. I mean, we teach general relativity to ambitious high school students, I am sure we can do better with meditation/jhanas etc.
btdmaster 5y ago
Reminds me of imaginary exercise: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1597701/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1597701/
ppsreejith 5y ago
A recent reddit video seems relevant here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/sx7bym/an_indian_yogi_filmed_by_indian_army_personnel/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/sx7by... From the title: > An Indian Yogi filmed by Indian Army personnel while patrolling in the Himalayas. The Yogi can be seen Meditating, chanting the name of God and bursting with ecstasy while being accompanied by a dog in the beyond survival clime of Himalayas.
sto_hristo 5y ago
As a kid in the kindergarten, we were miserable commies and there wasn't heating all the time in the winter. I vividly remember how one time our "caregiver" round us up in a semicircle around her and she started mumbling how we will begin feeling heat as she was extending her hand towards us. I felt getting warmer and warmer. Then we went to bed for our afternoon nap under the horrifying sounds of an opera singer woman.
dudeinhawaii 5y ago
Yes? I have an unfortunate, strange, condition where I can get extremely warm/hot just by thinking about something exciting or novel. This isn't "turning red", as there are no external changes. I can sit down to listen to music, close my eyes, and think up some tolkien-esque battle to go with the music and instantly jump a perceived 20+ degrees and yet register no change on a thermometer. I'm guessing it's my brain triggering some kind of adrenal reaction. In this state (which lasts 5-15 minutes), I can go outside shirtless in 23F weather (sub-freezing) and it feels like a balmy 70F. My outer senses don't go numb, but I have the odd experience of not experiencing cold. It's almost as if my sense of touch is overloaded in these moments. I don't feel any numbness, but I don't really feel anything at all. It's like my brain stops caring about the sense of touch or temperature and I feel everything in a very dull, flat way -- the dial turned to 1. Incredibly cold things like touching and handling a block of ice feel like room temperature. I also don't get red or have any symptoms you'd associate with the exposure to the cold. I'm probably dying of something rare and don't know it as it comes on with any overly stressful or exciting experience. It makes intimacy interesting -- "baby I'm on fire".
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
97s 5y ago
I don't understand a lot of the almost violent levels of dislike towards WHM. Sure Wim is a very odd person and is very excited about this thing that has helped him in his life and he is now profiting off it. Does that not describe almost all of us when we discover something great and then also make money off it? I believe, and this could be wrong but I have read a good bit of his stuff; the "WHM helps such and such problem", is mostly based off his students who have came and said that they felt better after practicing cold and breath techniques. Wim never claims to be a scientist, in fact many times when someone asks him a direct question he says something along the lines of, "I don't know, that is up to the scientist to discover", I am just here to guide. One of the comments below talked about how Wim's friend had cancer, and then he said WHM helped him with his cancer, but then he died from cancer. This is such a moot and pointless comment to make. Doctors every single day help people with cancer and they still die. Does that mean the effort to help was worthless? Should one not attempt any safe methods that are mostly harmless and have some known benefits when facing a terminally ill sickness? No one dying of cancer is going to be harmed by holding their breath and taking a few cold showers, if anything it probably brings some relief to the constant pain that is chemo and cancer treatments (speaking from experience).

241 points by NoRagrets 5y ago

Information processing in the brain burns most of the energy we intake. Computation produces heat as a side product. Therefore you can warm yourself with your mind, simply by thinking more.

ajuc 5y ago
Is it established that consciously thinking more uses more power? On a CPU with no frequency scaling nor power levels it doesn't matter if you do useful work or while(true) - it takes as much energy to do both.
- csee 5y ago
  It is established. People tasked with doing a difficult mental task burn a lot more calories. But I don't think it's known if it's the thinking per se, or the stress associated with it.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    We know this affects race car drivers especially - the mental efford of driving the car at high speeds gets their heads to dangerous temperatures. But yes, you are correct - it could be "just" the stress too.
  - anentropic 5y ago
    https://www.science.org/content/article/scientist-busts-myths-about-how-humans-burn-calories-and-why https://www.science.org/content/article/scientist-busts-myth...
- ben_w 5y ago
  I remember reading (but can’t find references) that watching soap operas burns less calories than watching paint dry because your mind wanders more when you have nothing to engage it, and separately that high-end chess players burned a lot of calories despite sitting almost motionless during their games. The urban legend of “you only use 10% of your brain” isn’t true, but the thing it was based on was closer to the caveat “while relaxing”.
  - neaden 5y ago
    The chess thing was based on a misconception. Someone measured chess players heart rate and saw that it was increased, then compared that pulse rate to athletes training and basically said they must be burning as many calories since they had the same heart rate. This study gives a much more reasonable estimate of calorie expenditure: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23455094_The_stress_of_chess_players_as_a_model_to_study_the_effects_of_psychological_stimuli_on_physiological_responses_An_example_of_substrate_oxidation_and_heart_rate_variability_in_man https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23455094_The_stress...
    - ben_w 5y ago
      Neat, thanks for the update :)
- can16358p 5y ago
  Don't know if directly related or something else but in cold I can think much more clearly, creative, and have "higher computational output". In heat my brain stops, I can't think clearly and all the ideas are "foggy". I always had this personal and funny analogy in my mind of CPU thermal throttling where brain works more slowly in heat to prevent generating more heat.
0_____0 5y ago
20% is a baseline figure for proportion of calories that go to the brain. If only you could warm yourself by running 3DMark!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
alfiedotwtf 5y ago
is this actually true? i would have thought the Gluteus Maximus would burn the most by a factor compared to the brain?
- hypertele-Xii 5y ago
  Apparently no, it's false, sorry. Looks like it's actually about 20%.
csee 5y ago
This is speculation as to whether it explains the effects described in the article.

familymart 5y ago

Ever get super mad? Same thing.

sebastianconcpt 5y ago
That is also a way to make the body warm but I think the case is to do it somehow voluntarily and not as an emotional reaction that prepares your body for flight/fight.
- familymart 5y ago

forgotmypw17 5y ago

I think this article is about the Wim Hof Method, although the site's design kept me from reading it. I've done a workshop with a WHM instructor, and for anyone wanting to try it, there are three key points I would say. (Note, that I am not an instructor myself, I've only done one workshop and practiced myself.) This works not just when going swimming in cold water or taking an ice water dip, but also in cold weather when you're not dressed warm enough to be comfortable. Deep breathing. Not slow, but full and continuous inhaling and exhaling to the boundaries of lung capacity. Physically and mentally relaxing. Shivering is a way to generate heat through motion. To counter it, and stimulate chemical heat generation, relax all the muscles. To relax mentally, something like breath meditation. Mental/visual. Imagine being warm, like on a hot beach laying on the sand. Hope this anecdata helps someone. I wouldn't count on it replacing warm clothes, but it's nice in a pinch.

mettamage 5y ago
> Deep breathing. Not slow, but full and continuous inhaling and exhaling to the boundaries of lung capacity. In is full, out is normal. Disclaimer: I've trained 4 days with Wim for one of his landmark experiments. I was one of the guinea pigs.
- forgotmypw17 5y ago
  Thank you
- nkzd 5y ago
  Has this experience and things you learned along the way helped you in your life?
  - mettamage 5y ago
    Yep, whenever I do not want to feel cold, I can. Note: I wouldn't describe it as feeling warm. In fact, I'd describe it as a pretty adrenaline-like state [1]. That adrenaline-like state is much more comfortable than feeling cold. It's super practical to have this when you think about it, the weather's got nothing on me! It's really tough for me to feel unhappy about the weather, because whenever I do, I can use my superpower and go from a chilly/shivery person to a person that can suddenly handle -5 degrees celsius in their shorts (with shoes on though). The only thing that still annoys me is rain and hail at times. But as a chilly/shivery person the issue was always cold temperatures for me. That issue is gone. I say it with surprise because I still think it sounds crazy. Before 2014 it had such an impact on my life and suddenly all that misery just drops to zero. Spiritually though, I didn't notice a lot, I'd rather stick to meditation for that. And whatever people may say, IMO, the Wim Hof Method is not a meditation. It's a combination of two breathing techniques + an optimistic trained/taught mentality about the cold being your friend. Oh, I also sometimes use it as a natural painkiller when I don't have one on me and start to get a headhache. You know since the adrenaline-like state includes some actual adrenaline [1] :) One "issue" with the WHM is that you need to keep doing it to stay in the state. It otherwise wains after 5 minutes or so. Because of this, it's impossible for me to be social in a normal sense, since breathing in a very specific way + talking at the same time is about as tough as beatboxing while singing (which I know how to do as well :P). Which means: it requires a lot of practice and trickery. [1] Research shows you get a lot of adrenaline in. It's in the publication I was a guinea pig for: https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/111/20/7379.full.pdf https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/111/20/7379.full.pdf

can16358p 5y ago

I know I can. Just with thoughts and meditation. Actually I though everyone could do it and was surprised that this is even newsworthy. I expose myself to cold since my childhood (check out Wim Hof method for some practical examples and the scientific explanation) and can heat myself when I need it. I remember some memories where I had a dog, he was cold and shaking after swimmimg, embracing him. He still kept shaking and when I thought of a thing that made me feel warm (kind of shivering/vibrating feeling) and goosebumps he immediately stopped shaking. After a few seconds he starts shaking again. Repeat this process on countless occasions, always the same result.

thanatos519 5y ago
Nothing beat personal experience, right? If you're in tune with your body, you can warm yourself and others by projecting heat.
- can16358p 5y ago
  Yup. I totally know what works as I've experienced things myself. But it's kind of hard to set up scientific methodology to prove things with n = (enter convincing amount of subjects) where there are many subjective sides in the experiment (e.g. Thinking of something that makes you shiver/goosebump is hard to apply at scale as for many that is result of something subjective and different for each individual) I'd love to see some organization to set up an experiment though.
  - krageon 5y ago
    > it's kind of hard to set up scientific methodology to prove things Why would you? It works, it's a teachable method. To my mind, the inquiry doesn't have to progress far beyond that. Unless perhaps you value doing things solely for knowledge, which is something academia stopped doing ages ago (and arguably never really did).
  - throwaway675309 5y ago
    False, it's not difficult at all to set up even minimally rigorous scientific experiment. Now you might not like the results that you gather from the experiment, so I would imagine that it's in your best interest to not pursue and gather actual objective evidence. Take an infrared thermometer, point it at the part of your body that you're visualizing heating up. Observe the results. Took me five seconds to come up with this experiment.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

sdoering 5y ago

> "results must be interpreted with caution given the low subject number and the fact that both participants practised the g-Tummo like breathing technique." [0] Wim Hof not only claims that his method will keep one warm, but also a lot of other health benefits. Very few of these have any scientific backing. Hyperventilation's effects on inflammatory responses are well known. His claims regarding arthritis, MS or even Parkinson's are not only spurious at best to be kind in wording. I would personally call them bullshit. There is just no scientific evidence at all for these claims. Ensuring through deep breath that your chest muscles are moving and warming and by that warming your blood is nice - but not more. There are no studies scientifically researching the method with multiple subjects. Only studies that look at him (and his twin). So we have "studies" with n=2 and massive claims from him. While he sells his books/seminars/method. People have died attempting the Wim Hof Method (one example [1]). To me - this person is good at PR. Knows how to sell these days. And how to be a personal brand. I have to give credit for that. [0]: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23328940.2017.1329001 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23328940.2017.1... [1]: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/wim-hof-breathing-method-coroner-man-drown-2436121 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/wim-hof-breathing-...

hammock 5y ago
>People have died attempting the Wim Hof Method (one example [1]). Does WH recommend using his method for breath-holding underwater? (I don't know) Hyperventilation causing deaths underwater is well-known and not specific to WHM
- Panino 5y ago
  > Does WH recommend using his method for breath-holding underwater? (I don't know) No, he explicitly says don't do that. Just one example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzCaZQqAs9I&t=56s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzCaZQqAs9I&t=56s
colordrops 5y ago
Not having a scientific study backing something by default makes it bullshit? Was mindfulness meditation bullshit until scientists stamped it with their approval? It seems that a proper scientific mindset would declare something neither true nor false until a study is done.

sebastianconcpt 5y ago

An ex I had knew I had a way to do it voluntarily and in cold days she came all over me and asked me to do it so she can "steal" heat from my body.

winnit 5y ago
Might be worth rewording that, I guess you mean 'she was all over me'?. 'Came all over me' makes it sound like she ejaculated all over you.
- sebastianconcpt 5y ago
  Indeed. Can't edit the comment tho. Great native speaking feedback because indeed although she liked it a lot, it wasn't enough to make her squirt.

new_guy 5y ago

Wim Hof is a party trick for children. Pranayama is a science that's thousands of years old. It's much better to go directly to the source than some bastardised commercialised western version: http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath.pdf http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath....

can16358p 5y ago
Thanks to that "bastardized commercial" version I'd actually learned about Pranayama, which I probably would have never discovered if there wasn't Wim Hof.
ben_w 5y ago
The important difference between “ancients knew a true thing” and “science” is that ancients also believed a lot of things that were not true and didn’t even have a way to find out which was which. Sometimes, and non-scientists everywhere do this, the truth is intermixed with the false so deeply that the truth is even used as evidence for the false.
- darkerside 5y ago
  The ego of thinking nothing is true until Western science has proven it as such. This reeks of Columbus discovering America.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    > nothing is true until Western science has proven it as such That’s not even remotely what I said. First, true things are true even if no human has learned them. Second, science is not just western. China, India, Japan, both Koreas all have their own space programs, for example. Third, the west was nothing special until it started applying (proto-) scientific methods. Miasma, spontaneous generation, demonology, etc. were all common false beliefs that scientific investigation disabused. Fouth, science doesn’t even try to prove anything true, all it tries to filter out falsehoods to a reasonable likelihood — “Does substance X have an effect?” a non-scientist may imagine a scientist doing some tests and “proving” it works, but the reality is closer to “Null hypothesis means it is indistinguishable from the absence, alternative hypothesis is that it is different from the absence, can we reasonably reject the null hypothesis with this quantity of evidence?” This last one is key, and why the west isn’t e.g. trying to conquer literal Hell in the name of Jehova etc.

microjim 5y ago

Found this part funny: > As I contemplated whether it could help me cope with the cold, it occurred to me that using this sacred technique to avoid discomfort might not be in line with its origins in Buddhism, a religion in which suffering is acknowledged and accepted. Buddhism is all about the complete cessation of suffering, so that part’s not technically correct. The Buddha did talk a lot about renouncing physical comforts and not creating unnecessary suffering in harsh environments, though. The core body temperature part of this phenomenon is actually the less interesting part here. It’s not too mind boggling that activating certain nervous pathways will stimulate certain metabolic activity and perhaps alter blood flow via hormonal means. Where it’s really cool (read: even more practically useful in your everyday life) is to explore the effects on the mind. It’s not controversial to claim that picturing a warm fire inside your body will bring some degree mental comfort in cold or very cold conditions. However for most people, this would hard to sustain. One would look around, see the snow, remember how thin one’s clothing is, and be interrupted with the cold sensations making contact with the skin. Further thoughts about how cold it is are likely to arise, and the nice belly fire and the comfort it provided is no more. One might even start to imagine the lack of warm blood going to the extremities, the cold penetrating down to the bones, and frostbite setting in, even if that's not the case yet. It’s easy to imagine how, with a trained mind, one might have a greater ability to sustain this internal mental fabrication (buddhism calls this saṅkhāra) of an internal fire. Not only strengthening it and maintaining attention on it, but de-prioritising the amount of mental activity devoted to thinking about how cold it is (i.e. mental fabrications around the cold - like it reaching the bones). Why it's useful to explore this, is to consider that in ordinary life we are doing this sort of thing constantly - it's simply that it's to a lesser degree, and in subtler ways. The implications of that to our quality of life are enormous. Ever notice how the world looks different when when something good happens, or you are feeling optimistic, versus when things aren't going so well and you're more pessimistic? The extent to which we put together our experience, and, by extension, how we can begin to have some influence over that as a conscious process is sorely, sorely underestimated.

blunte 5y ago

Writing for the sake of writing. But I'll get to that in a moment... "the dog has to be pushed outside" What? No, if it's that cold, you keep the dog against your body, and you both benefit. Anyway, in these times of competition for attention, the written word is losing. Therefore, it is increasingly important that what is written is succinct and meaningful. This "article" talks about stuff without reaching a conclusion. It's like a trailer for a movie that doesn't exist. Yes, people have demonstrated that they can gain some level of control over their own calorie burn for self-heating. How they do it is still a mystery, just as how much of the mind works is still a mystery. Tell us how. Don't say, "Oh here are some more people who do it" in 2000 words.

a9dhalaan 5y ago
Yea, the article quickly lost my attention so i scrolled to the bottom and read the last 2 paragraphs hoping for a meaningful answer to the articles question, but no luck. Can someone who has the time to read this summarize it for the rest of us?
- nuclearnice1 5y ago
  > succinct has never been the New Yorker house style. I agree more how would be a treat. I assume Kozhevnikov’s agreement to keep the how confidential was an impediment. But a couple things I noted: * G-tummo meditation, she went on, is not a state of relaxation but arousal. She thinks it may increase blood flow to the brain. G-tummo is difficult, requiring years of dedication to master. * Try “visualizing your fingers in hot water, or yourself in a hot environment,” There is more how in the corresponding Plos one article https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0058244 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
  - blunte 5y ago
    Perhaps our natural inability to control our low-level biological systems is on average better at keeping us alive. After all, if we could control any system without really understanding all the interactions and repercussions, we probably would die accidentally more often.

alfanick 5y ago

Anecdotal data [on sample of one, me]: while I don't think I can warm myself with my mind, I clearly can ignore cold. I feel it's cold, but it's not uncomfortable or painful for me. I'm doing this daily since hmm 10 or more years - walking in shorts, t-shirt, almost all year long (something longer if it's cold, cold meaning less than -15C or less than -3C and extremely windy). Similar story with rain - just get wet, it's fine. Hiking, running in one layer instead of 3 layers as most folks would do... It helps me with overheating which I tend to a lot. I have also a simple recipe if I'm actually feeling cold - just do whatever you do faster (your muscles generate a lot of heat as a by-product), no need for extra layers. Lately I also monitor my core body temperature when doing any kind of activities - definitely not getting cold inside even though I'm "underdressed" by popular opinion. (Note I'm also not a risk taker, so in extreme conditions I always have some backup layers with me, in case "do whatever you do faster" method could not be implemented anymore). I wouldn't give anyone any advice out of this though, I'm not a medical professional.

agumonkey 5y ago
I have this thought that your mindset will affect your sensitivity and body reaction. If you're eager for something, the cons feel less so, and it probably triggers a positive reaction. When outside in the cold, if I'm mentally low, I start to crumple and shiver.. but when I'm up.. I don't care much and just move more so to get warmer.
crismiquelg 5y ago
This sounds like a dream to me. Feel like I can do the opposite: try to ignore heat while cold... I just start shaking.
tluyben2 5y ago
I have the same thing; I can focus and just ignore the cold or the heat. I guess practicing focus and lucid dreaming (both require mental discipline I think) where good for something.
- alfanick 5y ago
  With heat unfortunately I cannot do as much as with cold - I need moreless two weeks in the heat to acclimate correctly and then my performance is somewhere close to non-hot-weather performance (I'm a runner). But unfortunately at some moment this also stops working when I'm doing some very high effort - active cooling is required (aka splash yourself with water, ice etc). In some conditions (especially hot+humid) human built-in active cooling mechanism also doesn't work well - sweating is awesome, but sweat no longer evaporates effectively in humid conditions. I also say it's easier in cold - you could always put more clothes on you if need them, but in the heat? There is only as much clothes as you can take off. I'd agree it's somehow mental discipline - I can also ignore pain, it's there, but well I don't have to act on it, it does not have to have any reaction. It used to be a cool party trick back when I was a teenager... Again, not a medical professional, if you experience pain, it's body trying to tell you something is wrong, most likely you should listen to it.

mettamage 5y ago

Disclaimer: I've met Wim and was one of his guinea pigs in this experiment [2]. The best proof I have for that is that I've claimed this for years on HN ;-) We trained for 4 days in Poland. The hardest challenge I did was climbing up a mountain in my shorts + shoes + socks for 2.5 hours at -7 degrees. I did not have frostbite in the end, none of us did. We did the Harlem Shake (that was a thing back then). I also asked a ton of questions to the researchers back then. From what I've read, g-tummo is very likely not the Wim Hof Method. I've never trained with a monk claiming to know g-tummo. The son of Wim Hof loudly told me "The Wim Hof Method is not Tummo!" (almost a direct quote from memory, probably paraphrased). So I'd argue that back in 2014 or whenever it was, they were of the opinion it was something else. I'd be willing to bet they've never met a g-tummo monk either :) A good medical YT vid on the WHM [1]. From my experiential point of view: the WHM doesn't warm your body, you simply don't get cold, nor do you feel cold (you're too high on adrenaline to have any normal sense of temperature). Sometimes I did feel a warmth boost, but that's not the main "working thing" behind his method. I use it whenever I need an adrenaline boost, or don't want to feel cold. When is it handy or fun to get an adrenaline boost on purpose (my experience)? 1. When you have a headache (free painkiller when nothing is lying around) 2. When you're at a party (no drugs needed, the WHM is a drug in its own right) 3. When you're having sex (a lot of adrenaline kinda changes your personality a bit :) ) 4. When you're cold [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6EPuUdIC1E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6EPuUdIC1E [2] https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/111/20/7379.full.pdf https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/111/20/7379.full.pdf

mtalantikite 5y ago
I'd also agree that Wim Hof breathing is not Tummo, although who knows if there are some similar biological processes that happen as a result of the two methods. My experience with the Wim Hof breathing is similar to yours though, it's a nice reset button and can make your body feel a lot better when you're in pain or feeling cloudy. It's funny that you mention using it for sex, because Tummo is often a preliminary for Karmamudra practice too. As for Tummo, generally there are a lot of preliminary practices you need to go through before being taught it, which can take the practitioner a lot of time and is probably why you don't see it around in lay communities in the west. For instance, the preliminary practice of ngondro can take people something like 6 months in full retreat to finish, or years if mixed in to daily life. The Yuthok Nyingthig lineage of Tibetan medicine practitioners does things on faster timelines though, in my experience. [1] [2] My acupuncturist is a former monk and teaches Tummo to small groups here in NYC from time to time, although he hasn't done it in a while and I didn't find out about him until after the last group of his had started. You'd still probably want to have had a daily meditation practice and some physical yoga asana practice before beginning I'd imagine -- just sitting in the 7-point posture of Vairochana that you see the monks from the article sitting in requires a pretty open body to get into and maintain. The first time I took a course in Tibetan Nejang I had difficulty with maintaining that arm and shoulder position, even after years of sitting every day in padmasana. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuthok_Nyingthig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuthok_Nyingthig [2] https://purelandfarms.com/ https://purelandfarms.com/

PaulHoule 5y ago

I had a psychogenic fever last year and lost about 10 pounds in the course of two weeks that I kept off for months. I've been thinking how to do it again but haven't had a good idea on how. I've tried biofeedback with a thermometer that goes under my tongue but I could really use one that records continuously.

cameronh90 5y ago

I can't warm myself with my mind, but I do get cold when I have an anxiety attack, and I can cause myself pain by thinking about it - pretty much at will, anywhere in my body. Is that a superpower?

njx 5y ago

I meditate almost daily for roughly 2+ hours and during that period I can feel waves of heat passing through the entire body. The solar center is located just below the navel. If you focus in the naval area you can generate heat. I don't practice to generate heat but certainly see that as a side effect. I wonder if these Monks and Yogis can stay warm the entire day or just during the meditation practices

tartoran 5y ago

How about the reverse, can one cool themselves with only the sole power of their mind?

MSFT_Edging 5y ago

I've noticed that when I'm doing a very mentally intensive task, such as focusing all my energy on reading sheet music, converting that to notes, chords, positions, and finger style picking patterns, I warm up considerably. Since I don't keep up with it regularly, every return is very mentally exhausting and I'll end up sweating with no ambient temperature change. I have no doubt its possible to trick the mind into re-regulating.

fristechill 5y ago

Intuitively the converse seems to be true: getting into a hot bath, the muscles relax, the arteries relax and the mind goes merrily off to the races with interesting ideas. Presumably because it is freed from a certain amount of its bodily management duties.

988747 5y ago

Well, certainly you can FEEL warm - it takes just a little practice before you can relax enough for your blood vessels in your skin to expand. Nothing special about this, I've done that many times before, while waiting at the bus stop, for example. Problem is: in the longer term you will die from cold FASTER this way - you are basically just wasting your heat by dispersing it.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

adamsmith143 5y ago

efitz 5y ago

Related, but not the same. I’ve suffered from migraines since puberty. In my teens, I received biofeedback training and it turns out I was pretty good at it. Biofeedback is a relaxation technique; training involves hooking you up to a device that measures galvanic potential in your skin and converts it to an audio tone. Stress and relaxation have opposite effects on a number of measurable body phenomena including skin resistance, skin (extremity) temperature, heart rate, and others. I’ve practiced biofeedback regularly since and can rapidly lower my heart rate and increase my skin temperature at will. I wouldn’t depend on it to ward off frostbite but I usually don’t need gloves and my wife gets jealous that my hands and feet are almost always warm.

grimoald 5y ago

Regarding the Arctic ground squirrels: > the water inside the squirrels becomes a supercooled liquid. Does that mean that if you grab a squirrel and shake it, it freezes instantly?

mproud 5y ago

> G-tummo meditation, she went on, is not a state of relaxation but arousal. This actually makes total sense.

2-718-281-828 5y ago

tummo or not. breating techniques exist for thousands of years. it's a repackaged and simplified interpretation of Pranayama, Tummo, anything he happened to stubmle upon. And WH is not very much scientifically inclined. He has been several times repeating the idea that hyperventilation provides the body with more oxygen. The opposite is true (Bohr effect). Also he reinterpretes subduing an immunological response with beating an infection. His experiment involved a harmless bacteria which causes immunological response but no detrimental effects on health. His son is is Chief Marketing Officer - also obvious from several videos. Of course he'll say whatever benefits the trademark. In one (I think) Vice episode he presents a friend of his with cancer thanking WH for helping him with the method. He died from cancer. WHM is a neat little technique with lots of bells and whistles attached to hit. No more no less. I enjoy applying it from time to time for what it's worth. But don't expect any revelations or enlightenment. And I never had an experience coming even remotely close to a DMT trip. There are many similar techniques btw - they all boil down to hyperventilate, then stop and let CO2 build up (some with lungs empty some with lungs filled) and have oxygen be released to the cells in a little Oxygen shower. The more you read and think about it the less exciting it gets. It's nice - yes - but very limited. Much more healthy in the long run is slow breathing. But it's not as exciting and it's not marketed by a would-be-shaman who rambles on about philosophical ideas and curses all the time.

amriksohata 5y ago

Tummo is nothing but another type of Yoga that originated from India before Tibet, from Hindu sages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo Tummo is also a tantric practice for inner heat, developed around the concept of the female deity.[1][3][4] It is found in the Six Dharmas of Naropa, Lamdre, Kalachakra. and Anuyoga teachings of Vajrayana. The purpose of tummo is to gain control over body processes during the completion stage of 'highest yoga tantra' (Anuttarayoga Tantra) or Anuyoga.

borroka 5y ago

From the fascinating book "Autohypnosis and Autogenic Training" by Dr. Klaus Thomas (not available in English, I translated it) Temperature adaptation It has long been known, especially thanks to WEIZSÄCKER's experiments of over 100 years ago, that under hypnosis the feeling of well-being and skin reactions are determined not by the actual external temperature but by the subjective setting. Exercise under progressively more difficult conditions is not presupposed. Spectacular demonstrations are particularly dangerous in this field. If the hypnotist for "stage requirements" makes his subject face enormous temperature changes in the space of a few minutes (in one case I personally observed 60 degrees Celsius), profuse sweating with copious elimination of liquid is followed by a sensation of intense cold: a drastic procedure that, in addition to exposing to infection, almost necessarily involves more serious diseases, rheumatic for example. Instead, gradual habituation gives rise to almost absolute independence from external temperatures. For example, for over 20 years I have endured the hot-humid climate of the Earth's most torrid areas and extreme temperature changes without feeling ill or getting sick. I can safely say this having lived in the tropics for several months. Therefore, I will report how my gradual adaptation unfolded. Since 1945 I have eliminated my hat or cap in winter. If necessary (even while walking) I would repeat: "Ears, nose and skin of the head are and remain pleasantly warm." After two years, I was forced to cover my ears for a few minutes only infrequently, at times of extreme cold. Since 1946 gradual elimination of the coat with the formula: "The skin is pleasantly warm, the cold is strongly indifferent to me". Since 1948 the stimulating action of the cold air on the skin gives me pleasure; since 1949 I have not contracted a cold since a stay of no more than thirty minutes in the cold air, while a stay in a relaxed sitting position in a too cool working environment is still unpleasant for me. Since 1950 elimination of gloves, at first with the formula: "Hands stay pleasantly warm". After two years, adaptation to the temperature was established automatically, without the formula. In total, it took me seven years to achieve almost absolute independence from the outside temperature. For sensitive individuals, special complementary formulas are recommended, for example: "The air ride leaves me completely indifferent". In the humid heat of the tropics, the formula renders good services: "The skin stays dry and cool". When it is very hot, sweating, as a natural defense mechanism, should not be suppressed; therefore the formula is indicated: "Sweat leaves me completely indifferent". In a patient threatened by the danger of overheating (heat stroke) the self-induced deep sleep acted favorably. In 1960, during a car trip of many hours through the Sahara desert, with a temperature inside the car of more than 80 degrees, I was helped by the formulas: "I feel good, pleasantly calm and cool >> and "I sleep hard and deeply">. Typical phenomenon, during the whole trip extremely realistic iced drinks. On arrival, I was the only one (out of 20 participants) who was free of ailments. After drinking twelve bottles of ice-cold lemonade, I was immediately able to work, while all the others had to go to bed. The most important general formulas would be: "The skin remains pleasantly cool" "Heat is strongly indifferent to me". The effects of autogenic training on temperature adaptation in people who have been practicing for years can be summarized as follows: Low or high temperatures are not bothersome; additional clothing or air conditioning systems, at least for time-limited temperature changes, are unnecessary; common colds or infections do not occur or become very rare (to the author, for 25 years).

koreanguy 5y ago

autohnacc 5y ago

There is a meditation technique common in Europe called Autogenic Training that is focused on warming up parts of the body as its central technique. There's a lot of evidence for its efficacy.

borroka 5y ago
Warmth is the second (and fifth) of the six steps of "basic" AT: heaviness of limbs, warmth all over thee body, heart beating strong and regularly, breathing (many formulas), warm solar plexus (or irradiating heat), cool forehead, with the optional warm head and shoulders before the cool forehead. I've been trying for a few years to get friends engage with TA, given the extraordinary benefits I've gained from regular practice (I've thought about writing a simple guide to TA, something that is missing in English), but “meditation practice" in the broad sense seems to capture people's imaginations better. Oddly enough, I might add, since TA is easy to understand and "scientific," while meditation is rooted in an anachronistic spirituality, with sources, even modern ones, that are largely incomprehensible*, and gurus/guides that are terribly unappealing and look like they are living outside this world. *Right Concentration was recommended for understanding jhanas, but I found it a very challenging reading. I mean, we teach general relativity to ambitious high school students, I am sure we can do better with meditation/jhanas etc.

btdmaster 5y ago

Reminds me of imaginary exercise: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1597701/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1597701/

ppsreejith 5y ago

A recent reddit video seems relevant here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/sx7bym/an_indian_yogi_filmed_by_indian_army_personnel/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/sx7by... From the title: > An Indian Yogi filmed by Indian Army personnel while patrolling in the Himalayas. The Yogi can be seen Meditating, chanting the name of God and bursting with ecstasy while being accompanied by a dog in the beyond survival clime of Himalayas.

sto_hristo 5y ago

As a kid in the kindergarten, we were miserable commies and there wasn't heating all the time in the winter. I vividly remember how one time our "caregiver" round us up in a semicircle around her and she started mumbling how we will begin feeling heat as she was extending her hand towards us. I felt getting warmer and warmer. Then we went to bed for our afternoon nap under the horrifying sounds of an opera singer woman.

dudeinhawaii 5y ago

Yes? I have an unfortunate, strange, condition where I can get extremely warm/hot just by thinking about something exciting or novel. This isn't "turning red", as there are no external changes. I can sit down to listen to music, close my eyes, and think up some tolkien-esque battle to go with the music and instantly jump a perceived 20+ degrees and yet register no change on a thermometer. I'm guessing it's my brain triggering some kind of adrenal reaction. In this state (which lasts 5-15 minutes), I can go outside shirtless in 23F weather (sub-freezing) and it feels like a balmy 70F. My outer senses don't go numb, but I have the odd experience of not experiencing cold. It's almost as if my sense of touch is overloaded in these moments. I don't feel any numbness, but I don't really feel anything at all. It's like my brain stops caring about the sense of touch or temperature and I feel everything in a very dull, flat way -- the dial turned to 1. Incredibly cold things like touching and handling a block of ice feel like room temperature. I also don't get red or have any symptoms you'd associate with the exposure to the cold. I'm probably dying of something rare and don't know it as it comes on with any overly stressful or exciting experience. It makes intimacy interesting -- "baby I'm on fire".

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

97s 5y ago

I don't understand a lot of the almost violent levels of dislike towards WHM. Sure Wim is a very odd person and is very excited about this thing that has helped him in his life and he is now profiting off it. Does that not describe almost all of us when we discover something great and then also make money off it? I believe, and this could be wrong but I have read a good bit of his stuff; the "WHM helps such and such problem", is mostly based off his students who have came and said that they felt better after practicing cold and breath techniques. Wim never claims to be a scientist, in fact many times when someone asks him a direct question he says something along the lines of, "I don't know, that is up to the scientist to discover", I am just here to guide. One of the comments below talked about how Wim's friend had cancer, and then he said WHM helped him with his cancer, but then he died from cancer. This is such a moot and pointless comment to make. Doctors every single day help people with cancer and they still die. Does that mean the effort to help was worthless? Should one not attempt any safe methods that are mostly harmless and have some known benefits when facing a terminally ill sickness? No one dying of cancer is going to be harmed by holding their breath and taking a few cold showers, if anything it probably brings some relief to the constant pain that is chemo and cancer treatments (speaking from experience).