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Acute aerobic exercise to recover from mental exhaustion
- darawk 5y agoI've found this to be true personally. Pre-pandemic I used to go to the gym after work every night. I'd always go in feeling mentally exhausted, and leave feeling mentally refreshed and able to work on some of my side projects for a bit.
- sputknick 5y agoPersonal Anecdote: when I was in an office (before current WFH) and I was mentally exhausted I would go down to the gym, slam slam balls into the floor for 2 minutes without stopping, maybe take a 30 second cold shower, then return to work. Super refreshing and I was gone from my desk a grand total of like 8 minutes.
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- tommiegannert 5y agoSadly I don't frequent a gym anymore, but this is an idea I'd never have thought of. How did you arrive at this ritual?
- renewiltord 5y agoI think the specific exercise may be unique but the act usually isn’t. For instance I do the same with a pair of select tech dumbbells. I find that I have an afternoon sleepiness that is dissipated by this.
- sputknick 5y agoIt was kind of a Goldilocks aerobic exercise. I tried sprinting on the treadmill and found that too aerobic, and I would sweat at my desk afterwards, and I tried bicep curls and found that not aerobic enough and really just an arm workout.
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- saint_angels 5y agodid you try other high intensity exercise and found that slamming balls is superior, or slamming balls was just the first thing that came to mind?
- PragmaticPulp 5y agoI don’t think it really matters all that much. Doing anything is better than doing nothing. Just do any exercise that’s convenient and don’t overthink the details. Make it as easy as possible to get up and do. The more complicated you make it, the less you’ll actually do it.
- sputknick 5y agoI tried sprinting on the treadmill and found that too aerobic, and I would sweat at my desk afterwards, and I tried bicep curls and found that not aerobic enough and really just an arm workout.
- PragmaticPulp 5y agoA quick round of pushups, sit-ups, and air squats is my WFH exercise routine. Do it whenever you’re feeling slow Fromm sitting and it will get your body re-started. Can be done in 1-2 minutes right next to the desk. It doesn’t replace a true gym trip but it comes much closer than I ever would have thought before I started doing it.
- wincy 5y agoI used to go outside of my office and sprint as fast as I could for as long as I could, then cool down with a walk around the block. Then I switched jobs and everyone could see me if I did this so I got embarrassed and stopped. I feel like it really helped, maybe I need to get back into the habit, especially since I’m working from home.
- enduser 5y agoDon't be afraid to set a good example!
- aspaviento 5y agoGoing from a long period of time sitting to immediately perform an explosive exercise is a recipe for getting injured. Muscles and joints will suffer from it on the long term.
- akeck 5y agoI'm on the top floor so my version is to casually walk up and down 4 flights of stairs 3-4 times and then shower. The entire process takes 15-20 minutes. I feel so much better afterwards.
- herodoturtle 5y ago> slam slam balls At first I didn’t realise this was a verb followed by a noun, and thought to myself “damn, these slam slam balls sound like fun!”
- quantified 5y agoA heavy bag nearby is almost ideal too.
- comonoid 5y agoIs it about NIH syndrome?
- helge9210 5y ago30 min at 65-75% of individual V˙O2peak is not a joke.
- aberoham 5y agoV’02peak is an odd phrasing, sounds like it’s a quick approximation of VO2max. [1] For anyone with a mild aerobic base, wouldn’t 65-75% of VO2max be easy to moderate? 1: http://cpxinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/028_BJW-Vo2-Peak-vs-Max-final-2.pdf http://cpxinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/028_B...
- bacro 5y ago30 minutes of aerobic exercise for 1 hour of mental work is what was assessed. Does it have the same benefits if we have 8 hours of mental work instead?
- cableshaft 5y agoWhat, you don't have time to exercise for four hours a day? /s
- maaaaattttt 5y agoBased (only) on the personal experience of going for a run after a day at the computer and then working on a side project, I would say that even after 8 hours you can recover from the mental exhaustion of the day. Not completely, but you would definitely be able to work more/better than without the exercise in between.
- hobo_mark 5y agoAnecdotal of course, but when I used to commute daily by bike, the 30 minute ride in the evening would dissipate the brain fog enough to let me work on side projects almost every day until 2am or so, and the morning ride would wake me up from the slight sleep deprivation. So 1 hour bike (both ways) per 12 or so hours of work (including the "night shift").
- wink 5y agoThe thing I miss most about working from home for 2 years now are the bike commutes. But on the other hand I hate exercise and contrary to what most sibling comments were writing I don't believe in workouts and exercises making you feel better. People are different, and for me only cycling works - and hiking, but I guess that comes with fresh air and being away from the city, and it's not something that is doable in short spurts.
- CoastalCoder 5y agoAssuming that the article's conclusions are sound, I wonder what think/exercise schedule would maximize a developer's productivity. (I'm not assuming that a single schedule is applicable to all circumstances or persons.)
- spaetzleesser 5y agoI often think the the imbalance between mental effort and physical effort in modern office jobs causes a lot of problems. Some of my happiest days were when I trained boxing and weights 2 hours six times a week. It's hard to be depressed or anxious when you are physically exhausted and the feeling of physical strength just makes you feel better. Working out to the point of exhaustion feels like a "reset" for body and mind. Eating is another thing. When I hike the whole day or backpack for days my eating gets naturally balanced without effort. I eat what I need and that's it. When I work for 10 hours a day at a desk I start craving junk food and have to be careful not to put on weight. And not moving much is physically exhausting. I think that's because in the past usually when you had a lot of mental stress you were under physical threat (e.g. chased by a predator or enemy) and therefore probably needed physical energy. So we react to the typical modern workplace stress by wanting more energy but we never use it. Any ideas for a career that balances physical and mental effort better (and pays well)? A few years ago I worked near a place where they shot a lot of movie scenes and film production seemed pretty attractive. They spend a lot of time in the office planning things but then they go out for extended periods of time and do the actual shoot.
- mellavora 5y agoPlumber.
- bgroat 5y agoMilitary special forces or playing a team sport at a high-level? Those folks are SMART
- spaetzleesser 5y agoProbably not viable choices for us skinny nerds :)
- bgroat 5y agoThe think about getting muscular is that it's I thing you can just decide to do. Decide + gruelling work. But it is a choice (to be candid, one I haven't executed on yet)
- eitland 5y ago> While widespread strategies to recover from mental exhaustion (i.e., watching TV) are non-effective, I worked for a startup from 2015 to 2017. During that time I'd sometimes work 10-14 hours for 2-3 days in a row. When I was tired after lunch I'd just tell my colleagues I was tired and would take a gaming break and then go play 1 or 2 maps of CS:GO in casual mode before working 5-7 hours more after the brain fog had lifted. It actually worked very well back then. Not exactly the same as TV since was very active and not relaxing but I feel it was worth mentioning since to counter the idea that only physical exercise can work. Later I figured out that if I just drop breakfast I don't get hit by brain fog after lunch. This is funny since every health specialist have always told how important a correct breakfast is to stay sharp during the day. During the pandemic I tried this again but stopped it since now it seems 20 minutes of gaming just wastes 40 minutes of my day. There are some obvious between now and then but I have no clear idea which of them are responsible for why it worked back then but not now. (During the pandemic I worked from home, I also don't eat breakfast mot days and I am older now.)
- curiousllama 5y agoIf you ever want to do breakfast again, try dropping the carbs. Had a similar problem, and greek yogurt for breakfast solved it for me.
- g19fanatic 5y ago+1 for dropping the carbs to leave the fog behind. I used to do a large, sometimes carb heavy breakfast (french toast was my goto... with syrup of course). Brain fog killed me. Switched to 2 strips of bacon and 3 eggs instead (bacon done in the microwave, so easy) and that fog has lifted!
- m3kw9 5y agoIt sound funny but it seems like playing cs go for you at the time was equivalent of a mind calming meditation. Especially play easy mode where you get kill streaks which can remotivate you
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- colincooke 5y agoI can totally relate to this, working from home and having an exercise bike has done wonderful things for my work. One thing I'm curious of (and might be tackled in a follow-up) is if shorter bursts of exercise (perhaps more intense) are just as effective? In their experiment they find that 30 minutes of moderate exercise is effective. I'd be curious to compare that with for example 10 minutes of high intensity exercise?
- bavell 5y agoHIIT (high intensity interval training) is a very time efficient way of getting a great workout with lots of benefits. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_trai...
- rybosworld 5y agoI'm skeptical this can be implemented into a schedule where you do mental work for multiple hours a day.
- VadimPR 5y agoWork 8h, go to gym, work more on hobbies at home. Fits well for me for years - physical exercise, either aerobic or anaerobic, is a great mental reset for me that's worked for years.
- pmarreck 5y agoOne of the single biggest errors I’ve had to unlearn being taught in my life is that “exercise is for the body and mainly for athletes” instead of (or perhaps along with) “exercise is also for the mind if you’re a nerd” ;) (Naturally, the mind is part of the body, but the mental benefits are drastically under-emphasized!) Morning exercise a few times a week (at Orangetheory, in my case) lead to fairly large productivity boosts. My head feels so much clearer and I seem to have a lot more focus on tap, and just raw motivation to get things done or what I call “mental oomph”.
- CaptArmchair 5y agoAs the Roman poet Juvenal once wrote: "Mens sana in corpore sano" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_sana_in_corpore_sano https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_sana_in_corpore_sano
- brimble 5y agoGods of the Copybook Headers. (edit: Head ings, of course) They may be old fuddy-duddies, but damned if they aren't right more often than not. Even when we'd rather they weren't.
- User23 5y agoOne of the quickest adaptations to physical activity is that your motor neurons get better at firing and recruiting motor units. There’s evidence that these benefits spill over to the entire CNS.
- cpncrunch 5y agoWhen the article talks about "mental exhaustion", it is talking about short-term mental fatigue from the likes of working too long on a mental task. It is not talking about chronic fatigue or burnout due to chronic stress, or ME/CFS, for which exercise may cause worsening of symptoms. In that case stress reduction is likely the better solution, and exercise managed so you are not doing too little or too much. Making this comment because I suffered (and recovered from) ME/CFS myself.
- PragmaticPulp 5y agoME/CFS is defined by post-exertional malaise, so by definition it wouldn’t be improved by exertion. Burnout, however, does tend to respond positively to exercise over time. Burnout and ME/CFS are very different conditions. > Making this comment because I suffered (and recovered from) ME/CFS myself. How were you able to recover from ME/CFS? It seems spontaneous recovery does happen to some, though for others it is a chronic condition that will likely require some future medical advances to overcome.
- cpncrunch 5y ago>ME/CFS is defined by post-exertional malaise, so by definition it wouldn’t be improved by exertion. That's not quite true, because it isn't all exertion that causes PEM. Generally it is only doing too much that triggers it.
- trevormcneal 5y agocan you explain what is ME/CFS and how you recovered ?
- PragmaticPulp 5y agoME/CFS is a chronic condition characterized by debilitating fatigue and, specifically, post-exertional malaise. Patients who suffer from ME/CFS will have very debilitating negative reactions to any exertion past a certain threshold. The negative reaction can be delayed by 24 hours in some and it can be severe enough to make jobs or daily activities anywhere from difficult to nearly impossible. Importantly, the delayed worsening can clearly be measured by light exercise testing. It isn’t the same as normal post-exercise recovery or soreness. It’s far worse and can even be triggered by strenuous mental activity (perhaps energy expenditure in general). For many, it has a distinct viral trigger. They can be fine and healthy one week, then become chronic CFS sufferers after an infection with a number of notable viruses (EBV is common). Sound familiar? It has a lot of parallels to “Long COVID”, but it just never got the same attention because it’s not attached to a global pandemic in the 24/7 news cycle.
- ninesnines 5y agoThis is quite interesting -- I think digging into how long this would be efficient for would be interesting. I often feel that the most refreshed I feel is if I combine high intensity aerobics with the outdoors -- something about the ocean or forest always bring peace and makes me feel focused for the rest of the day. It would be nice to dig into how setting us also helps.
- iandanforth 5y agoHow was a nap not one of the compared strategies? A nap that doesn't enter deep sleep (~ <20 minutes) has lots of support for this kind of recovery.
- ibnishak 5y agoAlso meditation
- hnthrowaway0315 5y agoJust browsed through the Abstract. Some unrelated thoughts: I think the issue that most people won't gather up the will to do aerobic exercise after they are mentally exhausted -- even that they know it works to some extent. Following this, I believe, without scientific proof, that genius (or others who can contribute significantly more than other people) have their mind wired completely different from other people. For example, I know people who are super smart, super energetic, and (in the context of OP article) can switch between tasks efficiently. They don't seem to need cooldown, they always have the will to do something as long as they know it's good for them. In one sentence, they are more like machines. I wonder if there is a way for ordinary people to achieve that "machine-like" mentality. I'm curious to learn from your experience if you are able to grow from a "weak-minded" people to a "strong-will" one, however painfully. So far I haven't seen one example.
- VadimPR 5y agoRoutines do wonders. It's only hard the first few times, afterwards it becomes second nature to go and workout after work. It also helps that I've never, ever regretted doing a workout - you always feel amazing.
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- fartcannon 5y agoThat's not true for everyone. I find the routine of exercise unbearable. It's the primary reason I give up and take months long breaks. Additionally, do you have kids? Have you ever tried working out and then immediately chasing around a toddler? I regret it every time. The exercise, not the toddler.
- gunfighthacksaw 5y agoAnother testament to the power of routines: if you get disrupted for whatever reason (travel, vacation, extreme cold, bout of depression) the new routine of not exercising itself becomes second nature.
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- ewilliamsh 5y agoWould this support the idea of exercising at the end of day vs early morning ? ( if you have to choose one )
- fjfaase 5y agoIf I understand the paper correctly, I have been doing the right thing with biking to the office every day :-). My bike ride takes about 24 minutes one way. I have always looked for jobs at a biking distance from my home.
- swah 5y agoAnd it really works better this way. If you just ride around the same block 10 times and then arrive at you job (at home, say) it doesn't feel as good.
- spaetzleesser 5y agoI had this situation when I lived in Munich. 20 minutes biking through mostly forest. I have never felt that connected to nature since then. After a while you feel humidity, temperature, learn weather patterns,know what animals do. It was really good for the soul.
- pepp 5y agoMy most effective method for relieving brain fog is doing a few songs in beat saber @ PSVR, works surprisingly well and hasn't failed me so far. If I feel sluggish and in a generally negative mood on a day when we're having friends or family over for dinner or whatever, my wife makes me play beat saber and it really does help a lot! My ADHD can make it hard for me to just boot up the playstation, even if I need it and I know it will help, so having a loving wife is great too :)
- justsocrateasin 5y agoEntirely anecdotal, but a lot of professional endurance sports athletes / ultra distance athletes are also high performing PhD candidates/professors/academics. It's kind of weird - if you watch the documentary about the Barkley Marathons, the winners are usually some kind of math/engineering PhD candidate. Another anecdote - As a kid I was "hyperactive" and struggled a lot in school until my freshman year. Coincidentally, my problems of hyperactivity and poor grades both stopped at almost the exact time I started doing "competitive" endurance sports. I was just now diagnosed with ADHD as an adult in my mid twenties. My diagnosis probably took so long because I've been "self medicating" with exercise for the last ~10-15 years. I definitely believe the results of this study and I've found them true in my own life. I've consistently used exercise as a reset from studying / working, and often attributed consistent exercise as a key to my productivity.
- Grambo 5y agoReminds me of the fact that Alan Turing was a world class distance runner. He would sometimes run commute 40 miles for meetings.
- 83457 5y agoNow that's a unique excuse when arriving late for meetings.
- swah 5y agoActually, driving time probably has a much higher variation...
- babyshake 5y agoThat's about 1.5 marathons each way for a meeting?
- herodoturtle 5y agoOnly if it’s Turing Complete.
- ck2 5y agoThe keyword there is "aerobic". Weight lifting is not aerobic, it is anaerobic. If you run/cycle/etc beyond your lactate threshold heartrate, you've now switched from aerobic to anaerobic. Easy to google for more info if this seems interesting/important to you, just a "heads up" to the concept.
- User23 5y ago> Weight lifting is not aerobic, it is anaerobic. Heavy low repetition lifting is anaerobic, but around 15-20+ repetitions with lighter weights it becomes aerobic.
- all2 5y agoSuper sets of 80+ reps is definitely cardio, especially on legs day.
- ck2 5y agoWhat's your heart rate after the first 20 or so? If it's beyond 70% max heart rate, you are likely going anaerobic, muscles and heart start switch from fat to glycogen to ATP as the demand increases. It's like a runner doing "speed work" on a track. First 800 relatively "easy". By the eight repeat, not so much.
- User23 5y agoYou’re absolutely right. It surprised me the first time I wore a heart rate monitor for a near max effort deadlift. Maxed out my heart rate in a mere five reps. On the other hand I’ve done high rep air squats and while I wasn’t wearing a monitor, it felt very much like the cardio zone.
- all2 5y agoI need a new heartrate monitor. I typically do about 100 reps for a given muscle group, and I think it would be good to see how my heart rate responds.
- onemoresoop 5y agoIf time for gym is limited, I recommend getting a rebounder at home. It is low impact and the workout doesn't feel too hard, but as soon as you're done jumping for about 10 minutes you can feel it throughout the body. 10 minutes a day in the morning does make a big difference in my experience. I recommend a non-spring bungee cord based rebounder, perhaps a used better brand would do. But if you can run and don't have joint issues, sprints can put you in the best shape possible in about two weeks.
- friedman23 5y agoI personally find that the exercise doesn't even need to be "acute". When I'm feeling mentally tired I just drink water or eat a piece of fruit and go outdoors and walk for a bit and my mental energy just comes back.
- zeku 5y agoJust want to add to this thread: Walking. Just take a walk no need for something special! If we are talking a workout routine then that's different, but if it's just a mental reset after a challenging couple hours of work then go on a 15 min walk!
- wincy 5y agoPre Covid my entire team would go on walks once a day, even when it was cold out. I really miss those 15-20 minute excursions, I feel like we all really bonded during our walks and it was a good opportunity to hash out weird things about work and complexity since we had nothing better to do than pick each other’s brains.
- hasbot 5y agoAbsolutely. Walking is the cheapest, easiest effective exercise there is. Unfortunately so much of the US is not conducive to safe walking. For example, neighborhoods without sidewalks.
- rmbyrro 5y agoInteresting. I wonder if this could be a preventive measure. If I anticipate a likely exhaustion period, would prior aerobic exercise help to prevent or mitigate it?
- Khelavaster 5y ago...But not from "tiredness", according to the paper!
- stakkur 5y agoI walk every day, and I get these results. I nearly always feel more energized, focused, and relaxed afterward. When I don't walk, I really notice the difference.
- virgulino 5y ago>Subsequently, they were randomized to one of three treatments: 30 min of moderate aerobic exercise on a cycle ergometer, 30 min of a simple lower body stretching routine (= active control treatment) or watching a popular sitcom (= passive control treatment). Watching sitcoms stresses me out. And I hate most of them.
- ok123456 5y agoI work out every day after work. I've noticed there's no relationship between 'metal exhaustion' and being too physically exhausted to workout. It doesn't matter how "tough" your day was. It has no real impact on your physical ability there, and you will not feel as "tired" when you leave.
- emerged 5y agoI generally split my day up to alternate between physical activity, rational/logical projects/work, and creative activity. I do think while you engage in one the others are getting at least some amount of rest.
- TurkishPoptart 5y agoWhat is the exercise to do? Jumping jacks? Pushups?
- juancn 5y agoThis feels right. When the brain fog hits, I need to workout to clear it. It works every time (you still feel tired, but you can concentrate).
- tryitnow 5y agoHmmm. Two issues stand out for me. 1. If I'm understanding this correctly, it seems like the active control (stretching) performed worse than the so-called passive control (watching a "popular sitcom"). The Cohen's d for the active control ranged from 0.214 to 0.737, and 0.102 - 0.286 for the passive control. So watching a "popular sitcom" is closer to aerobic activity in its effect on recovery? 2. The abstract says the passive control was watching a "popular sitcom", this is weird. Does this mean the researchers picked a show for the subjects to watch? That doesn't make any sense, if I had to watch a show I didn't select that would be annoying and possibly interfere with recovery. But maybe the researchers didn't A Cohen's d of 0.2 is considered small and the values for the passive controls top out at 0.286, and apparently there's even a negative relationship with restlessness. My bet is that if someone tried to do a similar study but instead of picking a sitcom for the subject they allowed the subjects to simply watching whatever TV they would like to watch at the moment, the effect size would disappear. I am assuming I'm just missing something here, but from my fairly basic, non-expert understanding, it's not possible to draw the conclusions that the authors drew. Furthermore, the design seemed flawed from the beginning (although kudos for providing an active control). The main issue seems to be that their passive control wasn't really passive, it was making subject watch a show that they might not normally watch for relaxation purposes.