14 ms·

I Don't Like Smartphones (2016)

124 points by disadvantage 5y ago

Mikeb85 5y ago
You can't deny how useful smartphones are though...
- onemoresoop 5y ago
  Smartphones are extremely useful tools we have in our pockets. The problem is when we cross the line and instead of tools in our benefit, we become the tools at the hands of the technology. Self control is something that not many of us have or something that many cave in easily at the hands of abusive corporations.
dredmorbius 5y ago
Much of this also applies to tablets, and the comments here apply largely equally: - Data is siloed into apps. If it’s stored locally at all its within app-specific databases. In many cases it’s principally stored on cloud. - Applications cannot interoperate / share data. At best they share URLs or clipboard content. - The filesystem is not univerally user-accessibly. - Application process management means that any app can be closed at any time. Any unsaved state, and there’s frequently a lot, may disappear. Even within apps, content is unstable. E.g., if I am composing a longer comment or post and am researching it in other browser tabs, odds are high the composition itself will be wiped. This is the largest single issue I have. - Linux userland tools are limited. For me this is key to productivity. Termux is very, very, very good for what it does. What it does is still limited, and not available on iOS. - Simple basics such as keyboard-based navigation (see Mozilla Firefox/Android / Fennic/Android). Keyboard implementation in applications themselves is at best inconsistent. This is functionality that’s as old as interactive computing (1960s and before) that is failing. In Pocket, (article archiver) I cannot use the backspace key when writing tags, there is simply no response. In PocetBook (an ebook reader), I cannot enter a space when composing a search, instead the document scrolls. There are other similar issues. - Surveillance and monitoring are pervasive throughout the OS and applications ecosystem. - At the OS and application level, all design intent is focused on consumption and surveillance rather than my own productivity and creation. - Hardware support by OS vendors is limited to a few years for most owners. Google “commits” to three years, which is mostly aspirational as it may be a matter of months, if not no OS updates at all following purchase. Apple does somewhat better here. - The touch-focused interface is imprecise and frustrating, lacking the multi-mode functionality and locational precision of a mouse-based interface. Or the blunt effectiveness of text. In short: I can’t control my own data, I can’t rely on basic input functionality, tools are insanely crippled, decades-old UI/UX conventions are flouted, user state is at peril of being lost at any time, power-tool availability is limited, and surveillance is pervasive. Tablets are a shit productivity environment. Full stop. FWIW: I’m writing this on a tablet. I know its limitations well. In another post I make the case against tablets noting that there is virtually nothing they do which isn't better performed by either a far-more-capable laptop (even a cheap and minimal one) or a dedicated device: a dedicated (and preferably dumb) phone, a still or video camera (now largely the same thing), an audio recorder. Yes, it's a backlash against "convergence", but the gains and wins are huge.
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RunSet 5y ago
Promise: It's like having a computer in your pocket! Reality: It's like having a smart TV in your pocket!
- llampx 5y ago
  Can I steal this?
- deleted 5y ago
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- friedman23 5y ago
  > It's like having a smart TV in your pocket! Only because the platform is artificially locked down.
vernie 5y ago
(2016)
elevanation 5y ago
Yes there are serious problems with smartphones. And smartphones are here to stay. So how do we fix these issues?
- Syonyk 5y ago
  > Yes there are serious problems with smartphones. And they become more serious over time, as we've moved more and more of society and interaction onto them... > And smartphones are here to stay. I don't think this is at all a given, though. If more people start rejecting them in favor of something simpler, with less permissions, that's closer to a legacy communication device, it allows others to consider that, yes, you might be able to get away without one. Or with a less capable one. > So how do we fix these issues? Stop using a smartphone in your personal life, and be at least a slightly vocal "that person," because a lot of other people I've talked to don't like smartphones either for a wide range of options - but don't consider there to be any alternatives. So when I can show off a device that still lets me do voice/text, can check email if I care, has basic mapping, and... not an awful lot else, it's an option that most people quite literally didn't know existed. For more details about the alternatives and what they can/can't do, I've written up some of my thoughts over the last few months of using a KaiOS device here: https://www.sevarg.net/2022/01/22/kaios-bananaphone-flip-iv-experiments/ https://www.sevarg.net/2022/01/22/kaios-bananaphone-flip-iv-...
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    Legacy (style) devices are missing one killer app category: data-based messengers. Without a fully-featured version of WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Line or whatever it is that your friends and family use, you'll be limited to 1:1 chats. Group chats are an app-only feature, and you'll be excluded from those.
    - Syonyk 5y ago
      KaiOS supports WhatsApp. And, at least some of them support group texting somewhat competently, though not the older ones. But the reality is that I'm fine with a lot of my communication being computer-based now (with a keyboard). I still manage some group texts, but tend to only actually contribute if it's something critical ("Can you make this date work?") and skip a lot of the random BSing in the threads. If your requirements are "I want everything I can do on a smartphone, but without a smartphone," you end up in an impossibility, so just find the least offensive black mirror you can and go on with it. But if you're willing to sit back and figure out what actually matters from a phone, and what's a nice-to-have, there are plenty of other options out there.
zwieback 5y ago
When I'm standing on a corner somewhere and I can use GPS, live traffic data, restaurant reviews and simultaneously make call to someone, at that moment I don't think about my beloved PC at home, sorry. You can always use a burner phone with a fake identity if you want to stick it to the man.
- xtanx 5y ago
  > You can always use a burner phone with a fake identity if you want to stick it to the man. You cannot do that everywhere (legally). For example in Greece you are required to give your id to the network provider or they block your sim card.
- r3trohack3r 5y ago
  > You can always use a burner phone with a fake identity if you want to stick it to the man. For the uninformed, living in the U.S., how do I get a burner phone that isn’t associated with my identity? I’ve looked in the past, it’s been a few years admittedly, but it seemed non-trivial.
  - AlwaysRock 5y ago
    You can buy one with cash at most corner stores.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    Getting the phone is easy, just pay cash. Getting the SIM is a bit more tricky, and might involve someone in a dark alley.
  - RandallBrown 5y ago
    Walk in to a convenience store and buy a prepaid phone with cash.
    - ape4 5y ago
      And now its ok to wear a mask while doing that.
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lubesGordi 5y ago
Smartphone UIs are just too slow. Ever used a ps vita? Incredibly fast ui. Once you experience that it's kind of shocking how bad smartphones are. Texting on smartphones is a horrible experience that hasn't improved since 2008.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  I don't know why you're being downvoted. This entirely matches up with my experience of smartphones. If you are running a non-top of the line Android device, random slowdowns are not unusual.
  - anthk 5y ago
    Gaming requires a much faster input polling. Also, Vita's batteries are much worse than the ones for smartphones.
- sgtnoodle 5y ago
  I suspect there's a technical reason for that, rather than pure incompetence. The PS Vita likely devotes most of its power to its CPU and GPU hardware. Its screen resolution is also relatively low, so it doesn't take very many cycles to render. A smartphone has a tighter power budget. For one thing, the battery is significantly smaller to keep the phone thin. It has to power the cell modem constantly. The display resolution is significantly higher, so there's one or two orders of magnitude more pixels. The PS Vita menu is probably getting re-rendered at 60Hz in a loop that's also sampling for input events. The menu is just another "game". The smartphone menu is probably getting indirectly rendered through an abstraction that allows the framebuffer to only minimally be updated as display elements change. Events are likely coming in asynchronously rather than being polled. The rendered image looks the same, but there was significantly more code in the path vs. the game console. You could eliminate all that complex code and make a phone UI feel snappy like a game, but the power consumption would shoot up and drastically reduce on-time for the same battery size.
  - anthk 5y ago
    Or the opposite. Fast and battery saving UI snappiness, but atrocious I/O on background tasks up to the point of getting your messages and notifications delayed. And notability worse downloads.
ape4 5y ago
I don't think the answer is to totally discard smartphones. Only use the features you want. For privacy/security use a non-Android Linux-based phone.
- Syonyk 5y ago
  > For privacy/security use a non-Android Linux-based phone. I agree entirely, mostly because there's not a huge difference between that and simply not carrying a phone... or your battery is dead unless you carry a bag full of spares. The state of non-Android Linux phones (PinePhone, Librem 5, etc) leaves an awful lot to be desired, and I'll argue that for most of the stuff that actually works on those devices right now, you're better off carrying a random flip phone that works on modern networks, with week+ battery life. They'll do about the same things, but the flip phone is far cheaper and more likely to actually send/receive phone calls if you need it to. I'm glad the non-Android Linux devices exist, I have a PinePhone I'm messing with, but they're not really daily driver grade yet, without quite a bit of pain.
  - pinephoneguy 5y ago
    My Pinephone is a laptop replacement first and a phone second. I almost never make calls so it works well enough.
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    Legacy mobile phones are becoming flaky on modern networks. I had to go up all the way to a phone manufactured circa 2009 to get acceptable call quality and a connection without dropouts.
- Beltalowda 5y ago
  > For privacy/security use a non-Android Linux-based phone. The problem with this is that a lot of services don't make apps for this (banks, gov't services, messenger services, etc.) and that the value of such a phone is hugely reduced. It's basically Microsoft Windows anno ~2000 all over again, except now we can "choose" between Android and iOS (marginally better, I suppose).
beefield 5y ago
I'd like to have a good dumbphone. Here are my requirements: - good keypad (no accidental double presser, clear tactile feedback) - voice calls, SMS - 4g wifi hotspot - power management good enough to not run out of battery when used as a wifi hotspot and plugged in - good ui for the requirements above (e.g. ability to choose whether wifi is shut down if no connected devices) (bonus points for being rugged and waterproof) My previous try, nokia 8110 new version nailed 2 out of those 5, and as a result, I gave up pretty soon. To my knowledge there is no phone in the market at the moment that fills these requirements, and I find it odd.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  I have a similar shopping list and very little that satisfies it. General commentary: - A laptop or e-ink tablet can run other voice comms (Jitsi, Zoom, Skype, etc.) These are also generally more capable systems and convenient to use when seated or established at some location. The dividing line between present-gen phones and smaller tablets (beginning at 6") is ... slim. - SMS is itself not secure and highly problematic. As much as I'd like a dumb phone, I'm not sure I'd trust it to even SMS. Voice comms alone, or support for a secure encrypted messaging system. SMS itself seems too limited to allow an encryption extension, though xmms might suffice. - Splitting the phone and the hotspot functionalities is an option. That's an additional service, but might be preferable. - For the phone, I'd prefer a monochrome display, preferably e-ink, with a backlight or frontlight for low-light conditions. Hardware keyboard similar to the Blackberry, Palm Treo, or Palm Centrol might suffice. - The Psion Series 5 may well have been the perfect mobile communicator. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5 Otherwise, a B&W candy-bar phone along the lines of the Nokia 3310, or a flip phone like the Ericsson T28 or Motorola Razr would be a welcome sight. The feature I'd most appreciate in any of these for the present which wasn't available in their initial deployments is strict whitelist-based call acceptance. Any unknown numbers roll directly to voicemail or are rejected entirely.
- Syonyk 5y ago
  Take a look at the rugged KaiOS devices. They should do what you need. I have a "Flip IV" right now (AT&T sent me one when I hooked up my 8110 to their network because that doesn't support VoLTE), and other than being waterproof, it meets your requirements nicely. There are some waterproof devices with the same features, though.
JCWasmx86 5y ago
The worst thing about smartphones (In my case android) is how closed they are. Rooting is getting more difficult, bootloaders are getting more and more unlockable, SafetyNet and this new Play Integrity API are simply user-hostile. There is absolutely no real rational reason to deny root access. Sure, non-technical people could mess something up, but if you make rooting just a combination of putting it in e.g. the fastboot mode and then running a single command to get root access. (Factory-State: No root-access), nobody would accidentally mess up the phone.
- zbrozek 5y ago
  I don't know why you're getting down-voted. This is a significant regression over the years.
pinephoneguy 5y ago
It's easier than you might think to just go without. I'd highly recommend it.
napolux 5y ago
> They are unequal devices. Smartphones are unapologetically devices for consumption. In this regard they differ critically from PCs, because PCs are equal devices in the sense that the same device is used for creation and consumption. False. I bet the vast majority of content available online is now (think of pics and short videos) created on smartphones. > They are not real network clients. Smartphones have powerful CPUs and fast network connections, except that you aren't actually allowed to use these resources in any meaningful sense, because doing so consumes battery power, and people don't want the precious battery life of their phones drained unnecessarily. Falsy (maybe truee in 2016 when the article was written) ... > They have led to massive centralization. Part of the “cloud” movement is probably driven by the fact that while smartphones have substantial computational resources, you can't actually use them because of battery life. So instead the computation is done in the cloud, creating a dependency on a centralized entity. Maybe true > They have ruined web design. Nope, poor "mobile first" (aka let's apply mobile ui patterns to every other devices) ruined webdesign > There are no secure smartphones. True, like there's no secure PC. Or mac.
- p_j_w 5y ago
  >False. I bet the vast majority of content available online is now (think of pics and short videos) created on smartphones. Even if this isn't true, it's not a great point. Most people didn't use their home PCs to create content anyways, so the ability to create content more or less went to waste.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  If smartphones count as creation machines because they can take pictures and perform some basic editing, then my DSLR or Polaroid camera also counts. Even my pre-smartphone candybar from 2008 would count. Unfortunately, smartphones, due to their form factor, don't actually allow precise editing or manipulation of content - which is what is usually meant by the idea that "smartphones are devices for consumption, and not creation". The same applies to text, to some extent. Yes, you can author a novel on a smartphone, but it's gonna be an excruciating process if you want to do any fine text manipulation at all.
  - 5y ago
Eric_WVGG 5y ago
> They have ruined web design. But I should probably write a whole article on that. I sure am looking forward to that article, from where I'm sitting they absolutely saved web design. Before mobile, I absolutely could not get any designer to grok that browser windows were flexible things, and most users were not looking at the web on full-screen browsers on desktop displays. The term "responsive design" didn't even exist until the advent of the smartphone, to the best of my knowledge. Hell, we were still looking down the barrel of an eternity of MSIE 6 support until iOS Safari became important. (and the Youtube thing, of course)
- dylan604 5y ago
  And Flash. Don't forget the days of Flash only websites.
  - grishka 5y ago
    I miss those days.
  - the_af 5y ago
    Flash for general websites and for navigation was hellish. But Flash for games? It was a boon. I really enjoyed the early/mid era of Flash games, Kongregate and the like. I'm not arguing for Flash games now, I think there are much better tools today. But back then it was a boon to indie/experimental game developers (and animation artists) and enabled them to develop relatively cheap games and reach a wide audience.
- Beltalowda 5y ago
  Many sites seem designed for two kinds of devices: huge 29" screens, or small 5" screens. If you use a "normal" laptop things often look less than great. It's not uncommon for some fixed header or whatnot to take up a quarter or even a third of the total screen, especially if you like to zoom text a wee bit.
  - vladvasiliu 5y ago
    > Many sites seem designed for two kinds of devices: huge 29" screens, or small 5" screens. I don't know about the 5" screens since I rarely browse the web on my phone, but it's pretty clear to me that most sites are not designed for huge screens. I have a 4K 32" screen, and I've lost count of the number of sites that will expand to take up all the available width and show absurdly long lines of text. And since I'm using a tiling window manager, the window is basically full-screen. One such example: TFA.
dymk 5y ago
> Smartphones are unapologetically devices for consumption Speak for yourself, my phone is for communicating with friends and recording memories. > This cultural equality is diminished by an exodus to devices What the heck is "cultural equality" and what do people using smartphones have to do with it? Does the author think nobody owns a desktop/laptop anymore? > They are not real network clients. Neither is your laptop if you want good battery life. > They have led to massive centralization. Is that why Discord is popular on mobile, and not on desktop? Wait, no, it's popular regardless of platform. --- How does this kind of article make it to the front page of HN, seriously?
- dylan604 5y ago
  >Does the author think nobody owns a desktop/laptop anymore? The number of households where the only compute device is a mobile device is probably higher than you give it credit. I know it was for me. I'm not including "smart" devices or IoT devices. These same households may not even have an internet connection in them so that the mobile device is their only method of data consumption.
  - dymk 5y ago
    Presumably, those households without internet connection don't really have the option of a laptop or desktop then, no? In that case, smartphones seem to be pretty great at giving people the option to participate in the internet. I know hobby animators, artists, and musicians that produce work solely on their smartphone.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      >Presumably, those households without internet connection don't really have the option of a laptop or desktop then, no? While this probably leans to yes more often than not, however, it is 100% totally possible to own/use a laptop/desktop without using the internet. See all of computer history before the internet as an example. You can totally animate, "paint", create music without being online. Again, see all of art history pre-internet.
brimble 5y ago
> Smartphones are unapologetically devices for consumption. In this regard they differ critically from PCs, because PCs are equal devices in the sense that the same device is used for creation and consumption. This means that anyone with a PC can create as well as consume, if they so wish. This cultural equality is diminished by an exodus to devices which can only really be used for consumption. So smartphone companies put so much emphasis on the camera and, to a lesser extent, other built-in input devices, because...? > Smartphones have powerful CPUs and fast network connections, except that you aren't actually allowed to use these resources in any meaningful sense, because doing so consumes battery power, and people don't want the precious battery life of their phones drained unnecessarily. True, and this is a big hurdle for ~every attempt to gain traction with modern peer-to-peer protocols. Approximately no-one wants their smartphone battery to die in four hours flat so they can help serve decentralized YouTube on IPFS. > Part of the “cloud” movement is probably driven by the fact that while smartphones have substantial computational resources, you can't actually use them because of battery life. So instead the computation is done in the cloud, creating a dependency on a centralized entity. They didn't replace PCs, though. "Real" computation (by these standards) availability has continued to grow alongside smartphones. I'm skeptical how many more PCs would have been sold in a world without smartphones, and exactly how much more "creation" would be going on (though nb. I think "smartphones are just consumption devices" is a totally bizarre take disconnected from reality in the first place) > They have ruined web design. Heh. Yes, kinda, but then again several of the best versions of sites (that have multiple versions) are the mobile one. I'm pretty sure web design ruined web design, not smart phones. > They are devices of unclear alignment, or of clear malevolence. Pretty damning that the most popular and widely used computing platform we could come up with, falls under this category. If only non-mobile operating systems weren't almost all completely terrible to use, for normal people. > With a PC, I don't have to perform some arcane operation to actually have control of the device. Do I need to link to a billion search results dispensing the advice, "you're going to want to disable [MS virus scan / selinux / auto-updates / telemetry / et c] using [the command line / the "about" settings page / et c.] or it'll just keep [getting in your way / breaking / misbehaving]", or can I assume everyone's familiar with that?
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zshrdlu 5y ago
They do have at least one redeeming quality: smartphones are a cheap, portable gateway to the internet for millions of people worldwide who cannot possibly access it any other way.
- buzzert 5y ago
  And that's a _good_ thing?
  - dymk 5y ago
    Do you think people should be excluded from communicating with each-other (and the wider world) because they can't afford a PC, or because their country doesn't have good internet infrastructure?
    - buzzert 5y ago
      I can't answer that with a definitive "yes" or "no". Your example is something obviously good, but there are obvious downsides to this equation also. Lately, I've been thinking the world would be much better off without this easily accessible casino/skinner box/echo chamber/surveillance state. A lot of social cohesion problems really started with widespread access to smartphones, in my opinion.
    - JohnWhigham 5y ago
      Not sure if you've noticed, but everyone having a say has eviscerated society and our ability to communicate with one another. We didn't evolve to be part of a global community where everyone knows everything going on and everyone has a say on every conversation going on in the world. The Internet was better when it took a little work to get access to the information you wanted. Egalitarian cries of "Internet for everyone!" have devolved into bullshit that ruthless companies looking for more profits have co-opted. Again, it's not like it would have worked out anyway.
shimonabi 5y ago
My bank blocks by Android version. I tried to put an unrooted Lineage on it, but the banking app closed on start. A lot of people in the Play store are complaining, but every answer of the developer is: "We updated it, try again."
bastardoperator 5y ago
I'll im hearing is that this person doesn't like change.
dustractor 5y ago
Phones used to have tactile buttons you could dial without even looking. They also worked in extreme cold. Touchscreen? Below a certain temperature, the 'buttons' cease to exist.
jdrc 5y ago
Why do we need the responsive mobile web design anymore? Honestly i think it s an unnecessary complication that keeps most of the website content out of view, nullifies zooming, and slows the development of any site . Most phones have great screens , the user can zoom in and out, landscape mode is as big as a laptop screen , it's probably a better experience. Scrolling vertically only is so ... unidimensional
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alexwhb 5y ago
I do find it a bit ironic that this person says, "They have ruined web design"... have you seen your site? Anyway... other than that... pretty interesting article.
paxys 5y ago
I find it interesting that people who are against the mainstream technology trends (smartphones, social media, cloud computing, whatever else) of today will always make the argument that the technology available X years ago when they were most comfortable with it was the pinnacle and everything has gone downhill since. While the author is singing praises of a desktop computer with XMPP and self-hosted websites, back then there was a similar movement of people ranting against all this "modern tech" and saying we should just read the newspaper, use telephones to communicate and go out of our houses more. He probably fondly looks back at his late night IRC sessions and LAN parties while there were people writing "I don't like Computers (1996)" articles.
- badsectoracula 5y ago
  Talking in absolutes makes for contradictions indeed. The thing in some areas computers today are much better than they used to be but that doesn't mean everything is better. There are cases where computers are worse. And yes, there were people years ago who were saying similar things, that doesn't mean they were always wrong, it can also mean they were noticing things that others didn't notice or cared about. See, for example, Wirth's plea for lean software in 1995 - software certainly hasn't gone better on that regard since then.
mcbuilder 5y ago
I just got a Google Pixel, after a few years on Samsung devices. I've rooted a few times in the past and just went through the process again. When I have a rooted smartphone I really feel like I have a mini computer in my pocket, otherwise it feels like I have this fancy content consumption and notification tool. I've gone for many month stretches with no phone, and learned to live the old fashioned way again. Arrange meetings, look up directions before leaving, etc. This tended to give me problems in my marriage though as I wasn't available to be contacted while I was out. I was considering a "dumb phone", but I enjoy using slack and having my work calendar available to me, otherwise I will forget meetings.
- clircle 5y ago
  What do you get out of a rooted phone nowadays? I don't think I've rooted an Android phone in 8 or 10 years.
FridayoLeary 5y ago
There's another reason not to like smartphones i saw here a while back. They are surprisingly difficult to use on a fundamental level. A touchscreen is much clunkier then a cursor and mouse. The small screen makes it hard to browse the web and the tiny touch areas means that it's very easy to press the wrong button by mistake. And of course, a smooth, glass screen gives no tactile feedback. The actual device is just a smooth slab of glass and metal and is quite clunky. These are fundamental things that smartphones are very bad at.
spiznnx 5y ago
I think it would be cool if smartphones had a paradigm of user-controlled back-end server. All the push notification registration and compute-intensive or network-intensive operations could run on a home server that a phone is paired to. I already choose apps with an option for a self-hosted backend where possible, but its not the default. And I can't run my own Firebase Cloud Messaging server or my own APNs at all.
- Zanneth 5y ago
  A lot of smartphone users have IoT devices plugged in at home that, for better or for worse, have a persistent connection to the internet. It would be feasible and useful for these devices to act as personal servers for certain kinds of services. In fact I believe Apple already does this with HomeKit, where users’ AppleTVs or HomePods can act as a “hub” to facilitate communication with devices at home from outside the local network.
AshamedCaptain 5y ago
> For example, a disproportionate number of IM (XMPP, etc.) clients for, say, Android, appear to rely on a central server operated by the software maker, with some proprietary protocol between the client and that server, rather than simply implementing the protocol directly. Of note is that old Nokia devices used to allow this (i.e. arbitrary TCP connections including long-lived instant messaging ones) and they reached longer battery lives than any Android device I ever had. They traditionally claim that you just can't have multiple long-lived TCP connections due to the keepalives keeping the radio powered on constantly, as well as the reconnect traffic (due to e.g. roaming) being significant. However, both things are fixed by coealescing all keepalives. Probably this doesn't scale to thousands of connections, but it does definitely scale to a couple tens.
- Karrot_Kream 5y ago
  In 2016 this claim may have made more sense, but today in 2022 several smartphones get a full /64 IPv6 address while your laptops are under however many layers of CGNAT it takes your ISP to give you connectivity by putting in the least effort.
rkagerer 5y ago
I believe there are even online banking applications which reserve the right, in their terms, to detect if a device is “rooted” and refuse to operate on them. This drives me nuts. I want to improve my security posture and user experience by owning and controlling my own phone and breaking its link to the vendor, removing shitty bloatware to reduce the attack surface, etc. I'm happy to take responsibility for applying my own updates / patches. Samsung and Google don't have a monopoly on being competent to secure a device, and as the device ages they do an increasingly shittier job of that than other options out there.
jokoon 5y ago
I find it completely hilarious that I can't use my smartphone to do some programming, even a few lines of python. It's kinda true that unless an app can make money, a quality app has almost zero change of existing, while it's really not true on desktop. The APIs change too often, too much planned obsolescence, etc. I like my smartphone but I agree with this article.
dang 5y ago
Past episodes: I Don't Like Smartphones (2016) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20154965 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20154965 - June 2019 (98 comments) Why I don't like smartphones - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11097994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11097994 - Feb 2016 (281 comments) There are no secure smartphones - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10905643 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10905643 - Jan 2016 (118 comments)
Julesman 5y ago
Oh, the difference between tech nerds and users. No. Users don't modify their phones (or their computers.) Users don't need Windows or some new phone OS so they can do obscure things only 1 in a 10,000 people care about. Industries don't serve tiny minorities of tech savvy users. Most people just want and need a cheap Mac / iPhone. Too bad that doesn't exist.
laurex 5y ago
I also don't like smartphones but I accept reality. So while it won't solve 90% of the article's complaints, I desperately hope we will move out of a time when we have this item that takes us out of live experience and instead, we start building out technology that helps us enjoy our live experiences more fully, especially in regards to communication and attention.
lrvick 5y ago
I have worked in the smartwatch industry and have a background in mobile operating system development. I also run a security consulting business with over a dozen active client relationships at any time. Between the two I developed the feeling I -must- be connected and reachable at all times even when sleeping or on personal time. Recently I reached almost every conclusion this author did independently. Dropped my cell carrier a year ago downgrading my phone to a wifi tablet and ditched even that device as an experiment a few months ago and have no desire to go back now. I am reachable when I choose to be at my desk. No notifications follow me to the bathroom or to the bar table with my friends. I feel like my life is mine again. I am finally -present- in everything I am doing and am finally after over a decade am capable of being alone in my own head without frantically searching for a phone to tell me what to think about. I leave home with no electronics other than sometimes a digital music player and just take note of the world around me. No electronics are allowed in the bedroom at all. +1000 would recommend to anyone. Smartphones and the need to be -constantly- distracted is an unhealthy addiction for most that have a desktop or laptop computer they can access intentionally when needed.

124 points by disadvantage 5y ago

Mikeb85 5y ago

You can't deny how useful smartphones are though...

onemoresoop 5y ago
Smartphones are extremely useful tools we have in our pockets. The problem is when we cross the line and instead of tools in our benefit, we become the tools at the hands of the technology. Self control is something that not many of us have or something that many cave in easily at the hands of abusive corporations.

dredmorbius 5y ago

Much of this also applies to tablets, and the comments here apply largely equally: - Data is siloed into apps. If it’s stored locally at all its within app-specific databases. In many cases it’s principally stored on cloud. - Applications cannot interoperate / share data. At best they share URLs or clipboard content. - The filesystem is not univerally user-accessibly. - Application process management means that any app can be closed at any time. Any unsaved state, and there’s frequently a lot, may disappear. Even within apps, content is unstable. E.g., if I am composing a longer comment or post and am researching it in other browser tabs, odds are high the composition itself will be wiped. This is the largest single issue I have. - Linux userland tools are limited. For me this is key to productivity. Termux is very, very, very good for what it does. What it does is still limited, and not available on iOS. - Simple basics such as keyboard-based navigation (see Mozilla Firefox/Android / Fennic/Android). Keyboard implementation in applications themselves is at best inconsistent. This is functionality that’s as old as interactive computing (1960s and before) that is failing. In Pocket, (article archiver) I cannot use the backspace key when writing tags, there is simply no response. In PocetBook (an ebook reader), I cannot enter a space when composing a search, instead the document scrolls. There are other similar issues. - Surveillance and monitoring are pervasive throughout the OS and applications ecosystem. - At the OS and application level, all design intent is focused on consumption and surveillance rather than my own productivity and creation. - Hardware support by OS vendors is limited to a few years for most owners. Google “commits” to three years, which is mostly aspirational as it may be a matter of months, if not no OS updates at all following purchase. Apple does somewhat better here. - The touch-focused interface is imprecise and frustrating, lacking the multi-mode functionality and locational precision of a mouse-based interface. Or the blunt effectiveness of text. In short: I can’t control my own data, I can’t rely on basic input functionality, tools are insanely crippled, decades-old UI/UX conventions are flouted, user state is at peril of being lost at any time, power-tool availability is limited, and surveillance is pervasive. Tablets are a shit productivity environment. Full stop. FWIW: I’m writing this on a tablet. I know its limitations well. In another post I make the case against tablets noting that there is virtually nothing they do which isn't better performed by either a far-more-capable laptop (even a cheap and minimal one) or a dedicated device: a dedicated (and preferably dumb) phone, a still or video camera (now largely the same thing), an audio recorder. Yes, it's a backlash against "convergence", but the gains and wins are huge.

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RunSet 5y ago

Promise: It's like having a computer in your pocket! Reality: It's like having a smart TV in your pocket!

llampx 5y ago
Can I steal this?
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friedman23 5y ago
> It's like having a smart TV in your pocket! Only because the platform is artificially locked down.

vernie 5y ago

(2016)

elevanation 5y ago

Yes there are serious problems with smartphones. And smartphones are here to stay. So how do we fix these issues?

Syonyk 5y ago
> Yes there are serious problems with smartphones. And they become more serious over time, as we've moved more and more of society and interaction onto them... > And smartphones are here to stay. I don't think this is at all a given, though. If more people start rejecting them in favor of something simpler, with less permissions, that's closer to a legacy communication device, it allows others to consider that, yes, you might be able to get away without one. Or with a less capable one. > So how do we fix these issues? Stop using a smartphone in your personal life, and be at least a slightly vocal "that person," because a lot of other people I've talked to don't like smartphones either for a wide range of options - but don't consider there to be any alternatives. So when I can show off a device that still lets me do voice/text, can check email if I care, has basic mapping, and... not an awful lot else, it's an option that most people quite literally didn't know existed. For more details about the alternatives and what they can/can't do, I've written up some of my thoughts over the last few months of using a KaiOS device here: https://www.sevarg.net/2022/01/22/kaios-bananaphone-flip-iv-experiments/ https://www.sevarg.net/2022/01/22/kaios-bananaphone-flip-iv-...
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  Legacy (style) devices are missing one killer app category: data-based messengers. Without a fully-featured version of WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Line or whatever it is that your friends and family use, you'll be limited to 1:1 chats. Group chats are an app-only feature, and you'll be excluded from those.
  - Syonyk 5y ago
    KaiOS supports WhatsApp. And, at least some of them support group texting somewhat competently, though not the older ones. But the reality is that I'm fine with a lot of my communication being computer-based now (with a keyboard). I still manage some group texts, but tend to only actually contribute if it's something critical ("Can you make this date work?") and skip a lot of the random BSing in the threads. If your requirements are "I want everything I can do on a smartphone, but without a smartphone," you end up in an impossibility, so just find the least offensive black mirror you can and go on with it. But if you're willing to sit back and figure out what actually matters from a phone, and what's a nice-to-have, there are plenty of other options out there.

zwieback 5y ago

When I'm standing on a corner somewhere and I can use GPS, live traffic data, restaurant reviews and simultaneously make call to someone, at that moment I don't think about my beloved PC at home, sorry. You can always use a burner phone with a fake identity if you want to stick it to the man.

xtanx 5y ago
> You can always use a burner phone with a fake identity if you want to stick it to the man. You cannot do that everywhere (legally). For example in Greece you are required to give your id to the network provider or they block your sim card.
r3trohack3r 5y ago
> You can always use a burner phone with a fake identity if you want to stick it to the man. For the uninformed, living in the U.S., how do I get a burner phone that isn’t associated with my identity? I’ve looked in the past, it’s been a few years admittedly, but it seemed non-trivial.
- AlwaysRock 5y ago
  You can buy one with cash at most corner stores.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  Getting the phone is easy, just pay cash. Getting the SIM is a bit more tricky, and might involve someone in a dark alley.
- RandallBrown 5y ago
  Walk in to a convenience store and buy a prepaid phone with cash.
  - ape4 5y ago
    And now its ok to wear a mask while doing that.

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lubesGordi 5y ago

Smartphone UIs are just too slow. Ever used a ps vita? Incredibly fast ui. Once you experience that it's kind of shocking how bad smartphones are. Texting on smartphones is a horrible experience that hasn't improved since 2008.

selfhoster11 5y ago
I don't know why you're being downvoted. This entirely matches up with my experience of smartphones. If you are running a non-top of the line Android device, random slowdowns are not unusual.
- anthk 5y ago
  Gaming requires a much faster input polling. Also, Vita's batteries are much worse than the ones for smartphones.
sgtnoodle 5y ago
I suspect there's a technical reason for that, rather than pure incompetence. The PS Vita likely devotes most of its power to its CPU and GPU hardware. Its screen resolution is also relatively low, so it doesn't take very many cycles to render. A smartphone has a tighter power budget. For one thing, the battery is significantly smaller to keep the phone thin. It has to power the cell modem constantly. The display resolution is significantly higher, so there's one or two orders of magnitude more pixels. The PS Vita menu is probably getting re-rendered at 60Hz in a loop that's also sampling for input events. The menu is just another "game". The smartphone menu is probably getting indirectly rendered through an abstraction that allows the framebuffer to only minimally be updated as display elements change. Events are likely coming in asynchronously rather than being polled. The rendered image looks the same, but there was significantly more code in the path vs. the game console. You could eliminate all that complex code and make a phone UI feel snappy like a game, but the power consumption would shoot up and drastically reduce on-time for the same battery size.
- anthk 5y ago
  Or the opposite. Fast and battery saving UI snappiness, but atrocious I/O on background tasks up to the point of getting your messages and notifications delayed. And notability worse downloads.

ape4 5y ago

I don't think the answer is to totally discard smartphones. Only use the features you want. For privacy/security use a non-Android Linux-based phone.

Syonyk 5y ago
> For privacy/security use a non-Android Linux-based phone. I agree entirely, mostly because there's not a huge difference between that and simply not carrying a phone... or your battery is dead unless you carry a bag full of spares. The state of non-Android Linux phones (PinePhone, Librem 5, etc) leaves an awful lot to be desired, and I'll argue that for most of the stuff that actually works on those devices right now, you're better off carrying a random flip phone that works on modern networks, with week+ battery life. They'll do about the same things, but the flip phone is far cheaper and more likely to actually send/receive phone calls if you need it to. I'm glad the non-Android Linux devices exist, I have a PinePhone I'm messing with, but they're not really daily driver grade yet, without quite a bit of pain.
- pinephoneguy 5y ago
  My Pinephone is a laptop replacement first and a phone second. I almost never make calls so it works well enough.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  Legacy mobile phones are becoming flaky on modern networks. I had to go up all the way to a phone manufactured circa 2009 to get acceptable call quality and a connection without dropouts.
Beltalowda 5y ago
> For privacy/security use a non-Android Linux-based phone. The problem with this is that a lot of services don't make apps for this (banks, gov't services, messenger services, etc.) and that the value of such a phone is hugely reduced. It's basically Microsoft Windows anno ~2000 all over again, except now we can "choose" between Android and iOS (marginally better, I suppose).

beefield 5y ago

I'd like to have a good dumbphone. Here are my requirements: - good keypad (no accidental double presser, clear tactile feedback) - voice calls, SMS - 4g wifi hotspot - power management good enough to not run out of battery when used as a wifi hotspot and plugged in - good ui for the requirements above (e.g. ability to choose whether wifi is shut down if no connected devices) (bonus points for being rugged and waterproof) My previous try, nokia 8110 new version nailed 2 out of those 5, and as a result, I gave up pretty soon. To my knowledge there is no phone in the market at the moment that fills these requirements, and I find it odd.

dredmorbius 5y ago
I have a similar shopping list and very little that satisfies it. General commentary: - A laptop or e-ink tablet can run other voice comms (Jitsi, Zoom, Skype, etc.) These are also generally more capable systems and convenient to use when seated or established at some location. The dividing line between present-gen phones and smaller tablets (beginning at 6") is ... slim. - SMS is itself not secure and highly problematic. As much as I'd like a dumb phone, I'm not sure I'd trust it to even SMS. Voice comms alone, or support for a secure encrypted messaging system. SMS itself seems too limited to allow an encryption extension, though xmms might suffice. - Splitting the phone and the hotspot functionalities is an option. That's an additional service, but might be preferable. - For the phone, I'd prefer a monochrome display, preferably e-ink, with a backlight or frontlight for low-light conditions. Hardware keyboard similar to the Blackberry, Palm Treo, or Palm Centrol might suffice. - The Psion Series 5 may well have been the perfect mobile communicator. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5 Otherwise, a B&W candy-bar phone along the lines of the Nokia 3310, or a flip phone like the Ericsson T28 or Motorola Razr would be a welcome sight. The feature I'd most appreciate in any of these for the present which wasn't available in their initial deployments is strict whitelist-based call acceptance. Any unknown numbers roll directly to voicemail or are rejected entirely.
Syonyk 5y ago
Take a look at the rugged KaiOS devices. They should do what you need. I have a "Flip IV" right now (AT&T sent me one when I hooked up my 8110 to their network because that doesn't support VoLTE), and other than being waterproof, it meets your requirements nicely. There are some waterproof devices with the same features, though.

JCWasmx86 5y ago

The worst thing about smartphones (In my case android) is how closed they are. Rooting is getting more difficult, bootloaders are getting more and more unlockable, SafetyNet and this new Play Integrity API are simply user-hostile. There is absolutely no real rational reason to deny root access. Sure, non-technical people could mess something up, but if you make rooting just a combination of putting it in e.g. the fastboot mode and then running a single command to get root access. (Factory-State: No root-access), nobody would accidentally mess up the phone.

zbrozek 5y ago
I don't know why you're getting down-voted. This is a significant regression over the years.

pinephoneguy 5y ago

It's easier than you might think to just go without. I'd highly recommend it.

napolux 5y ago

> They are unequal devices. Smartphones are unapologetically devices for consumption. In this regard they differ critically from PCs, because PCs are equal devices in the sense that the same device is used for creation and consumption. False. I bet the vast majority of content available online is now (think of pics and short videos) created on smartphones. > They are not real network clients. Smartphones have powerful CPUs and fast network connections, except that you aren't actually allowed to use these resources in any meaningful sense, because doing so consumes battery power, and people don't want the precious battery life of their phones drained unnecessarily. Falsy (maybe truee in 2016 when the article was written) ... > They have led to massive centralization. Part of the “cloud” movement is probably driven by the fact that while smartphones have substantial computational resources, you can't actually use them because of battery life. So instead the computation is done in the cloud, creating a dependency on a centralized entity. Maybe true > They have ruined web design. Nope, poor "mobile first" (aka let's apply mobile ui patterns to every other devices) ruined webdesign > There are no secure smartphones. True, like there's no secure PC. Or mac.

p_j_w 5y ago
>False. I bet the vast majority of content available online is now (think of pics and short videos) created on smartphones. Even if this isn't true, it's not a great point. Most people didn't use their home PCs to create content anyways, so the ability to create content more or less went to waste.
selfhoster11 5y ago
If smartphones count as creation machines because they can take pictures and perform some basic editing, then my DSLR or Polaroid camera also counts. Even my pre-smartphone candybar from 2008 would count. Unfortunately, smartphones, due to their form factor, don't actually allow precise editing or manipulation of content - which is what is usually meant by the idea that "smartphones are devices for consumption, and not creation". The same applies to text, to some extent. Yes, you can author a novel on a smartphone, but it's gonna be an excruciating process if you want to do any fine text manipulation at all.
- 5y ago

Eric_WVGG 5y ago

> They have ruined web design. But I should probably write a whole article on that. I sure am looking forward to that article, from where I'm sitting they absolutely saved web design. Before mobile, I absolutely could not get any designer to grok that browser windows were flexible things, and most users were not looking at the web on full-screen browsers on desktop displays. The term "responsive design" didn't even exist until the advent of the smartphone, to the best of my knowledge. Hell, we were still looking down the barrel of an eternity of MSIE 6 support until iOS Safari became important. (and the Youtube thing, of course)

dylan604 5y ago
And Flash. Don't forget the days of Flash only websites.
- grishka 5y ago
  I miss those days.
- the_af 5y ago
  Flash for general websites and for navigation was hellish. But Flash for games? It was a boon. I really enjoyed the early/mid era of Flash games, Kongregate and the like. I'm not arguing for Flash games now, I think there are much better tools today. But back then it was a boon to indie/experimental game developers (and animation artists) and enabled them to develop relatively cheap games and reach a wide audience.
Beltalowda 5y ago
Many sites seem designed for two kinds of devices: huge 29" screens, or small 5" screens. If you use a "normal" laptop things often look less than great. It's not uncommon for some fixed header or whatnot to take up a quarter or even a third of the total screen, especially if you like to zoom text a wee bit.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  > Many sites seem designed for two kinds of devices: huge 29" screens, or small 5" screens. I don't know about the 5" screens since I rarely browse the web on my phone, but it's pretty clear to me that most sites are not designed for huge screens. I have a 4K 32" screen, and I've lost count of the number of sites that will expand to take up all the available width and show absurdly long lines of text. And since I'm using a tiling window manager, the window is basically full-screen. One such example: TFA.

dymk 5y ago

> Smartphones are unapologetically devices for consumption Speak for yourself, my phone is for communicating with friends and recording memories. > This cultural equality is diminished by an exodus to devices What the heck is "cultural equality" and what do people using smartphones have to do with it? Does the author think nobody owns a desktop/laptop anymore? > They are not real network clients. Neither is your laptop if you want good battery life. > They have led to massive centralization. Is that why Discord is popular on mobile, and not on desktop? Wait, no, it's popular regardless of platform. --- How does this kind of article make it to the front page of HN, seriously?

dylan604 5y ago
>Does the author think nobody owns a desktop/laptop anymore? The number of households where the only compute device is a mobile device is probably higher than you give it credit. I know it was for me. I'm not including "smart" devices or IoT devices. These same households may not even have an internet connection in them so that the mobile device is their only method of data consumption.
- dymk 5y ago
  Presumably, those households without internet connection don't really have the option of a laptop or desktop then, no? In that case, smartphones seem to be pretty great at giving people the option to participate in the internet. I know hobby animators, artists, and musicians that produce work solely on their smartphone.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    >Presumably, those households without internet connection don't really have the option of a laptop or desktop then, no? While this probably leans to yes more often than not, however, it is 100% totally possible to own/use a laptop/desktop without using the internet. See all of computer history before the internet as an example. You can totally animate, "paint", create music without being online. Again, see all of art history pre-internet.

brimble 5y ago

> Smartphones are unapologetically devices for consumption. In this regard they differ critically from PCs, because PCs are equal devices in the sense that the same device is used for creation and consumption. This means that anyone with a PC can create as well as consume, if they so wish. This cultural equality is diminished by an exodus to devices which can only really be used for consumption. So smartphone companies put so much emphasis on the camera and, to a lesser extent, other built-in input devices, because...? > Smartphones have powerful CPUs and fast network connections, except that you aren't actually allowed to use these resources in any meaningful sense, because doing so consumes battery power, and people don't want the precious battery life of their phones drained unnecessarily. True, and this is a big hurdle for ~every attempt to gain traction with modern peer-to-peer protocols. Approximately no-one wants their smartphone battery to die in four hours flat so they can help serve decentralized YouTube on IPFS. > Part of the “cloud” movement is probably driven by the fact that while smartphones have substantial computational resources, you can't actually use them because of battery life. So instead the computation is done in the cloud, creating a dependency on a centralized entity. They didn't replace PCs, though. "Real" computation (by these standards) availability has continued to grow alongside smartphones. I'm skeptical how many more PCs would have been sold in a world without smartphones, and exactly how much more "creation" would be going on (though nb. I think "smartphones are just consumption devices" is a totally bizarre take disconnected from reality in the first place) > They have ruined web design. Heh. Yes, kinda, but then again several of the best versions of sites (that have multiple versions) are the mobile one. I'm pretty sure web design ruined web design, not smart phones. > They are devices of unclear alignment, or of clear malevolence. Pretty damning that the most popular and widely used computing platform we could come up with, falls under this category. If only non-mobile operating systems weren't almost all completely terrible to use, for normal people. > With a PC, I don't have to perform some arcane operation to actually have control of the device. Do I need to link to a billion search results dispensing the advice, "you're going to want to disable [MS virus scan / selinux / auto-updates / telemetry / et c] using [the command line / the "about" settings page / et c.] or it'll just keep [getting in your way / breaking / misbehaving]", or can I assume everyone's familiar with that?

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zshrdlu 5y ago

They do have at least one redeeming quality: smartphones are a cheap, portable gateway to the internet for millions of people worldwide who cannot possibly access it any other way.

buzzert 5y ago
And that's a _good_ thing?
- dymk 5y ago
  Do you think people should be excluded from communicating with each-other (and the wider world) because they can't afford a PC, or because their country doesn't have good internet infrastructure?
  - buzzert 5y ago
    I can't answer that with a definitive "yes" or "no". Your example is something obviously good, but there are obvious downsides to this equation also. Lately, I've been thinking the world would be much better off without this easily accessible casino/skinner box/echo chamber/surveillance state. A lot of social cohesion problems really started with widespread access to smartphones, in my opinion.
  - JohnWhigham 5y ago
    Not sure if you've noticed, but everyone having a say has eviscerated society and our ability to communicate with one another. We didn't evolve to be part of a global community where everyone knows everything going on and everyone has a say on every conversation going on in the world. The Internet was better when it took a little work to get access to the information you wanted. Egalitarian cries of "Internet for everyone!" have devolved into bullshit that ruthless companies looking for more profits have co-opted. Again, it's not like it would have worked out anyway.

shimonabi 5y ago

My bank blocks by Android version. I tried to put an unrooted Lineage on it, but the banking app closed on start. A lot of people in the Play store are complaining, but every answer of the developer is: "We updated it, try again."

bastardoperator 5y ago

I'll im hearing is that this person doesn't like change.

dustractor 5y ago

Phones used to have tactile buttons you could dial without even looking. They also worked in extreme cold. Touchscreen? Below a certain temperature, the 'buttons' cease to exist.

jdrc 5y ago

Why do we need the responsive mobile web design anymore? Honestly i think it s an unnecessary complication that keeps most of the website content out of view, nullifies zooming, and slows the development of any site . Most phones have great screens , the user can zoom in and out, landscape mode is as big as a laptop screen , it's probably a better experience. Scrolling vertically only is so ... unidimensional

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alexwhb 5y ago

I do find it a bit ironic that this person says, "They have ruined web design"... have you seen your site? Anyway... other than that... pretty interesting article.

paxys 5y ago

I find it interesting that people who are against the mainstream technology trends (smartphones, social media, cloud computing, whatever else) of today will always make the argument that the technology available X years ago when they were most comfortable with it was the pinnacle and everything has gone downhill since. While the author is singing praises of a desktop computer with XMPP and self-hosted websites, back then there was a similar movement of people ranting against all this "modern tech" and saying we should just read the newspaper, use telephones to communicate and go out of our houses more. He probably fondly looks back at his late night IRC sessions and LAN parties while there were people writing "I don't like Computers (1996)" articles.

badsectoracula 5y ago
Talking in absolutes makes for contradictions indeed. The thing in some areas computers today are much better than they used to be but that doesn't mean everything is better. There are cases where computers are worse. And yes, there were people years ago who were saying similar things, that doesn't mean they were always wrong, it can also mean they were noticing things that others didn't notice or cared about. See, for example, Wirth's plea for lean software in 1995 - software certainly hasn't gone better on that regard since then.

mcbuilder 5y ago

I just got a Google Pixel, after a few years on Samsung devices. I've rooted a few times in the past and just went through the process again. When I have a rooted smartphone I really feel like I have a mini computer in my pocket, otherwise it feels like I have this fancy content consumption and notification tool. I've gone for many month stretches with no phone, and learned to live the old fashioned way again. Arrange meetings, look up directions before leaving, etc. This tended to give me problems in my marriage though as I wasn't available to be contacted while I was out. I was considering a "dumb phone", but I enjoy using slack and having my work calendar available to me, otherwise I will forget meetings.

clircle 5y ago
What do you get out of a rooted phone nowadays? I don't think I've rooted an Android phone in 8 or 10 years.

FridayoLeary 5y ago

There's another reason not to like smartphones i saw here a while back. They are surprisingly difficult to use on a fundamental level. A touchscreen is much clunkier then a cursor and mouse. The small screen makes it hard to browse the web and the tiny touch areas means that it's very easy to press the wrong button by mistake. And of course, a smooth, glass screen gives no tactile feedback. The actual device is just a smooth slab of glass and metal and is quite clunky. These are fundamental things that smartphones are very bad at.

spiznnx 5y ago

I think it would be cool if smartphones had a paradigm of user-controlled back-end server. All the push notification registration and compute-intensive or network-intensive operations could run on a home server that a phone is paired to. I already choose apps with an option for a self-hosted backend where possible, but its not the default. And I can't run my own Firebase Cloud Messaging server or my own APNs at all.

Zanneth 5y ago
A lot of smartphone users have IoT devices plugged in at home that, for better or for worse, have a persistent connection to the internet. It would be feasible and useful for these devices to act as personal servers for certain kinds of services. In fact I believe Apple already does this with HomeKit, where users’ AppleTVs or HomePods can act as a “hub” to facilitate communication with devices at home from outside the local network.

AshamedCaptain 5y ago

> For example, a disproportionate number of IM (XMPP, etc.) clients for, say, Android, appear to rely on a central server operated by the software maker, with some proprietary protocol between the client and that server, rather than simply implementing the protocol directly. Of note is that old Nokia devices used to allow this (i.e. arbitrary TCP connections including long-lived instant messaging ones) and they reached longer battery lives than any Android device I ever had. They traditionally claim that you just can't have multiple long-lived TCP connections due to the keepalives keeping the radio powered on constantly, as well as the reconnect traffic (due to e.g. roaming) being significant. However, both things are fixed by coealescing all keepalives. Probably this doesn't scale to thousands of connections, but it does definitely scale to a couple tens.

Karrot_Kream 5y ago
In 2016 this claim may have made more sense, but today in 2022 several smartphones get a full /64 IPv6 address while your laptops are under however many layers of CGNAT it takes your ISP to give you connectivity by putting in the least effort.

rkagerer 5y ago

I believe there are even online banking applications which reserve the right, in their terms, to detect if a device is “rooted” and refuse to operate on them. This drives me nuts. I want to improve my security posture and user experience by owning and controlling my own phone and breaking its link to the vendor, removing shitty bloatware to reduce the attack surface, etc. I'm happy to take responsibility for applying my own updates / patches. Samsung and Google don't have a monopoly on being competent to secure a device, and as the device ages they do an increasingly shittier job of that than other options out there.

jokoon 5y ago

I find it completely hilarious that I can't use my smartphone to do some programming, even a few lines of python. It's kinda true that unless an app can make money, a quality app has almost zero change of existing, while it's really not true on desktop. The APIs change too often, too much planned obsolescence, etc. I like my smartphone but I agree with this article.

dang 5y ago

Past episodes: I Don't Like Smartphones (2016) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20154965 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20154965 - June 2019 (98 comments) Why I don't like smartphones - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11097994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11097994 - Feb 2016 (281 comments) There are no secure smartphones - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10905643 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10905643 - Jan 2016 (118 comments)

Julesman 5y ago

Oh, the difference between tech nerds and users. No. Users don't modify their phones (or their computers.) Users don't need Windows or some new phone OS so they can do obscure things only 1 in a 10,000 people care about. Industries don't serve tiny minorities of tech savvy users. Most people just want and need a cheap Mac / iPhone. Too bad that doesn't exist.

laurex 5y ago

I also don't like smartphones but I accept reality. So while it won't solve 90% of the article's complaints, I desperately hope we will move out of a time when we have this item that takes us out of live experience and instead, we start building out technology that helps us enjoy our live experiences more fully, especially in regards to communication and attention.

lrvick 5y ago

I have worked in the smartwatch industry and have a background in mobile operating system development. I also run a security consulting business with over a dozen active client relationships at any time. Between the two I developed the feeling I -must- be connected and reachable at all times even when sleeping or on personal time. Recently I reached almost every conclusion this author did independently. Dropped my cell carrier a year ago downgrading my phone to a wifi tablet and ditched even that device as an experiment a few months ago and have no desire to go back now. I am reachable when I choose to be at my desk. No notifications follow me to the bathroom or to the bar table with my friends. I feel like my life is mine again. I am finally -present- in everything I am doing and am finally after over a decade am capable of being alone in my own head without frantically searching for a phone to tell me what to think about. I leave home with no electronics other than sometimes a digital music player and just take note of the world around me. No electronics are allowed in the bedroom at all. +1000 would recommend to anyone. Smartphones and the need to be -constantly- distracted is an unhealthy addiction for most that have a desktop or laptop computer they can access intentionally when needed.