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Building a modern home in the woods
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- blakesterz 5y agoCool story! I didn't notice it in there, maybe I just missed it, I would be worried about animals getting in the house, I wonder if they designed it to be animal proof? Being up in the woods there, the house must be under constant attack from the woodland creatures. Animals being anything from bees and ants and assorted bugs to squirrels and chipmunks and maybe bears. I have a SMALL woods behind my house and find all of those things have ways to get in without being invited way more often than I like. (Not bears)
- ttul 5y agoThe Pemberton area is besieged by grizzly and black bears constantly. It is a lovely part of the world, and somewhat terrifying.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Scoundreller 5y agoWell, not right now in the dead of winter, no.
- codingdave 5y agoI had fears of that when we moved into our house surrounded not only by woods, but wetlands and farm fields. We were pleasantly surprised how little problems we've had from creatures. We do see animals of all kinds wandering on the property - deer, squirrels, rabbits, racoons, opossum, coyotes, owls, hawks, eagles... you name it. The tracks in the winter are even more evidence that we are surrounded by wildlife. But they honestly aren't a problem. They leave the home alone. We have had one mouse in our first year here. A few ants and flies last summer. Honestly, we had bigger problems in the city. My only guess is that there is such a strong natural ecosystem here that they simply don't need anything from our home, so they are just as happy to leave it to us humans.
- cableshaft 5y agoI live in a suburban city and I've had all of those either in our backyard or just beyond our back yard over the past couple of years (except the eagles). Squirrels, rabbits, an opossum, a skunk, mice, owls, hawks, toads have all been in our backyard before. Deer and coyotes just beyond our back fence. Raccoons I've seen in the neighborhood but not from our backyard. A couple times now I've taken pictures of hawks chilling on our back patio. I have a bird feeder so the birds might attract it. The dogs freak out whenever I inadvertently let them out with animals in the back yard (happened with the skunk and opossum), so I've had to rush out and put myself in between them and the animals to keep them from possibly getting attacked or attacking they animals (they did get skunked). We have a tall fence and do our best to repair holes and gaps, but it doesn't seem to matter much except keep deer and coyotes out of our yard (at least so far).
- ttul 5y agoTL;DR wealthy, privileged white couple in Canada build dream home in the woods thanks to extensive societal advantages which they enjoy. Film at nine.
- balutdev 5y ago
- drenvuk 5y agoI don't think this matters much at all though. It's a pretty cool house and it's not like their pov needs to match everyone else's. You could find interesting stuff here just like someone describing their perfect vanagon/compact apartment/log cabin.
- hackeraccount 5y agoThat's how I feel too but at least I'm disappointed in myself for that which manages to help me feel that I'm better then you which in turns makes me feel just a bit better about me. So, thanks.
- asjldkfin 5y agoIt's amazing how much bitterness and jealousy can be encapsulated in just one sentence. It's almost poetic.
- Splendor 5y agoI guess we can file yours under "callous indifference". Someone complains about the societal issues that allow a couple to build a SECOND mansion like this in the woods while millions of people are homeless and your response is to paint them as "jealous".
- asjldkfin 5y agoOP isn't complaining about societal issues; OP is trying to drag a couple just because they have demonstrated some modicum of success and happen to be "white". They literally mentioned nothing about societal issues, except the implicit racism in their assumption that whiteness somehow inherently detracts from people's accomplishments.
- 0xbadcafebee 5y agoDoesn't the author actually mean postmodern? "Modern home" architecture is from the early-mid 20th century. If you're looking to build a home, do yourself a favor and watch Essential Craftsman's Spec House series (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn4L_aJ1rV4&list=PLRZePj70B4IwyNn1ABhJWmBPeX1hGhyLi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn4L_aJ1rV4&list=PLRZePj70B4...). Your eyeballs will grow wider and wider with all the considerations, but you'll be better informed for it.
- tiborsaas 5y agoMinimalistic or nordic would be a more accurate description. At least that how this style goes on Instagram, Pinterest and AliExpress :)
- frosted-flakes 5y agoThere's Modern, and then there's modern.
- gdubs 5y agoModern is usually referring to mid-20th century in terms of style. Post-modern doesn’t include everything after that — it’s kind of a mess to describe but probably the simplest explanation is that post-modernism is a reaction to modernism. It’s a style full of visual puns, and structural manifestations of literary criticism. “Contemporary” is the more generic umbrella term for things that are modern with a lowercase “m”. Of course, nobody agrees on what Postmodernism is so please feel free to tell me why I’m wrong :)
- nickhalfasleep 5y ago0 words about forest fires or preparing a defensible boundary and setback. Their insurance is going to be fierce.
- balutdev 5y ago
- yawnxyz 5y agothey don't need insurance, they could probably just build another one if the current one burns down...
- intrepidhero 5y agoAnd the house has wood siding with a flat roof and grass growing on the roof! Yikes!
- milesvp 5y agoYeah, I saw those flat roofs, and talk of whistler, and thought what a nightmare. Peaked roofs exist for a reason. I wonder what their snow strategy is? Because one day of rain on top of several feet of snow causes severe structural strain if it can’t just slide down.
- jannyfer 5y agoThe last photo is in snow... I wonder if they actively melt snow on the roof?!
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- qbasic_forever 5y agoWould help explain the 400+ amps of electricity they pull from the grid.
- deleted 5y ago
- fartcannon 5y agoLeaving out the actual financial information makes this post a little useless. Before I can imagine it, I want to know if I can do this or if I need to be a trust fund baby.
- vehemenz 5y agoAccording to the author, the couple acquired the money within 5 years. So yes, this is a wealthy person building with very few constraints. I mean it's still somewhat interesting vicariously. Kind of like the New York Times' house-hunting section, wherein they pretend that an $800,000 walk-up is an entry-level home.
- tomrod 5y agoMy thoughts exactly. This process seems difficult to understand without understanding the costs involved. Many, many people dream of living in the woods. The costs are usually unknown or prohibitive!
- ttul 5y agoThese kids may not have a trust fund, but to have already bought and sold a Vancouver townhouse with enough equity to buy raw land and build a fairly baller house on it… they definitely had parental help.
- gameman144 5y agoOr are working in highly-paid careers. It's definitely not infeasible for a dual tech income to afford this after an early life saving for it.
- shtopointo 5y agoDude works for slack – a quick search reveals that he was one of the early employees. I know nothing about him otherwise, but he doesn't have to come from money, being lucky with the IPO could explain the windfall to afford the house. In other news, it looks pretty (and over the top), but I doubt most of us here will ever be able to afford something like this.
- balutdev 5y ago
- zucked 5y agoThanks for this - I have what you might call champagne taste on a beer budget. I've always wanted to live in a small, but highly efficient house in the woods. You know, something that looks like it came from an architectural magazine. But I am consistently blown away by what even pre-fab homes cost. I clearly don't have the budget that the author does, but the process felt eerily similar to mine so far. It's never mentioned how much acreage was purchased, I don't think. My mental block is anything sub 5 acres where I am looking. My current trouble is that I don't live anywhere near where the property I am looking at is. Getting there is… quite a to-do. I'm leery of putting much trust in a realtor as my eyes/ears given that 1.) the property is cheap enough that their commission will be small potatoes and 2.) they have an incentive to sell you _something_. How does one navigate that part? How much of the soil test/survey/etc was done pre-sales, how much was a contingency, or do you just YOLO it?
- brailsafe 5y ago5.287 acres fwiw. I hope they add some of these details.
- lazide 5y agoUsually the county clerk will have some pointers. Always double check lot lines, plat maps, zoning, permit and ownership history yourself. Use the realtor provided information as helpful pointers to get started, not ‘the truth’. They often aren’t trying to mislead, just not questioning things they are told or that are convenient for them to believe, but there but there are also some outright frauds. Also, pay for your own independent well inspections (it has a well right? If not, uh oh), septic inspections (the soil type is okay for a septic system the county will approve right? If not, uh oh), and walk the property a couple times at different times of the day and night. Sometimes there is a noisy train line, or airport landing patterns change during certain times, and what was a mellow quiet plot can be noisier than LAX during Christmas.
- yawnxyz 5y agowhoa that is a mansion, not a "modern home" I had the opportunity to stay very nice place up in BC last summer — at the price of constant fear that we might need to hop in the car and leave everything behind at any second. And this was in a fairly big town (Kelowna). I can't imagine what the risks are for living in a place like this is...
- 1auralynn 5y agoPretty sure they mean "modern" as in the architectural style. Like "Victorian"
- germinalphrase 5y agoWere you concerned about fire?
- dboat 5y agoYes, everyone in the region was (I live near Kelowna). BC Wildfires last year were apocalyptic.
- mwest217 5y agoPemberton (where this home is located) is much wetter than Kelowna, so I think it's less of an issue. It's similar to the difference in Washington between the west slope of the North Cascades (such as Mt Baker, which holds the worldwide single season snowfall record) and the east slope of the North Cascades, which are dry and have large wildfire seasons.
- lazide 5y agoEven the Olympic peninsula (rain forest) burns periodically. I’ve seen the burn scars from apocalyptic sized fires in central Ontario too. The Amazon burns when someone ‘helps it’ a little. Everywhere dries out enough it will catch fire at least some of the year. If there is forest, there will be fire.
- sswezey 5y agoUgh, the font doesn't scale when zooming, but the pictures do. The font does scale though when changing the container size. The font is massive on a monitor, terrible UX.
- tpmx 5y agoYeah. Also: It sucks that bookmarklets have fallen out of fashion. I just spent a few minutes trying to find a working bookmarklet that changes the font size and failed.
- vehemenz 5y agoAgreed. It is obnoxiously large doesn't scale correctly. The text is too big on a standard 4K monitor or phone. The author used viewport-relative units for body text and (guessing) only tested on a laptop screen. This fixes it: [data-predefined-style="true"] main { font-size: 20px; }
- banga 5y agofont size ∝ A
- agentdrtran 5y agoI loved the big font and overall UX, very minimalist and fit their theme it seems like.
- drewcoo 5y agoAnd that's why smokejumpers need to die every year. Because people need to build luxury homes in the forest.
- lazide 5y agoThey die so that we may truly live! (pounds shields) Seriously though, every NA forest community I’ve seen is similarly screwed. There is a reason the firefights always get seen as heros - those communities would not exist if it wasn’t for them.
- claudiulodro 5y agoThe way to do this if you're not wealthy is to get a cheapo plot of land on the Oregon/Washington coast ($<100k for up to .5 acres) and put a manufactured home on it. It's way simpler, cheaper, and the construction on manufactured homes has improved a lot over the years (they're framed with 2x6s to survive transport, and this makes them sturdier and better insulated than most traditional houses). I did it and it's been great! No complaints. No architectural magazine is going to feature my house though.
- throwaway98211 5y agoWhat manufactured homes did you consider during the process?
- carabiner 5y agoAnother option is kit homes. I've been looking at First Day Cottage and Shelter-Kit. They are designed to be assembled by homeowners, but some people hire contractors. This FDC on Reddit looks extraordinary. https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking/comments/sibihx/first_day_cottage_99_complete/ https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking/comments/sibihx/first_d... https://www.shelter-kit.com/patrick-kit.html https://www.shelter-kit.com/patrick-kit.html
- asavadatti 5y agoAny recommendations on manufactured homes?
- JALTU 5y agoHere's one, see my comment about: https://www.ideabox.us/ https://www.ideabox.us/
- carabiner 5y agoYeah where can I find land like this within 30 minutes of Seattle/Tacoma?
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- taintlaurent 5y ago
- thex10 5y ago> Geothermal wasn’t viable on the slope and with the space we had to work with, so we switched to an air source heat pump for exchange. The bigger issue was that the energy demands for the house, which included hot water heating for the pool and hot tub, outstripped the electrical supply we could get on a rural residential build: 400A. We eventually settled on supplementing our electrical generation with propane, which we had hoped to avoid. High-efficiency electrically powered water boilers and other mechanical systems are more advanced in Europe, but we found that subcontractors were wary of importing anything unfamiliar (and unrated for North America) and prefered to use gas. Huh, as someone who wants one day to build a passive house to live in, this is all very interesting. Sounds like they're not getting quite as modern of a home as they wanted.
- Aeolun 5y ago400A?! My house can make do with 60A, and my previous one with 40A Do they use 350A to heat a swimming pool? Talk about a waste of energy.
- jakewins 5y agoAre you in EU? Recall North America uses 120VAC, so a 400A service is equivalent to 200A in the EU
- danachow 5y agoMost residential electrical service in the US is 200A or well below that. Especially if you have a place with gas heat, hot water, dryer, range you do not need that much. But even with electric appliances and a typical pool heater, 200A is plenty. 400A service in the US is the purview of the very wealthy for their Taj Mahals - which is obviously overrepresented here - but that's a fucking distorted view point if you think it's the norm.
- EricE 5y agoNA Houses still get 240 delivered to them - so yeah, 400A is huge.
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- Edman274 5y agoThe rich are different from you and me. (Yes, they have more money.)
- pmdulaney 5y agoSimply beautiful! You -- and your children, especially -- will be completely different people as a result of living in that home.
- MezzoDelCammin 5y ago"The bigger issue was that the energy demands for the house, which included hot water heating for the pool and hot tub, outstripped the electrical supply we could get on a rural residential build: 400A" Am I the only one who almost spit out his coffee when reading this paragraph? I mean, building a remote home in the middle of a forest is a cool idea, sure. But then end up feeding the whole thing with 400A worth of electricity? And when the current is too high, end up supplementing with a propane generator? Am I missing something? As a European, I'm used to way more modest figures for family homes - maybe 400V @ 25A plus gas for heating.
- intrepidhero 5y agoI'm from the US and I was shocked they needed 400A plus propane. We draw more current then you guys because our voltage is lower but still, 200A services are pretty standard for large rural homes.
- Scoundreller 5y agoMy thought is that power can go out for days at a time after a big storm, so propane is mostly a backup electricity/aux heat source. Maybe they have a heat pump setup which switches to propane when it gets really cold. Wood is there, but somebody needs to feed it. And people inevitably get old or lazy about it and depend more and more on the convenient heat sources available.
- danans 5y ago> I was shocked they needed 400A Seconded. I recently completed an all electric high performance remodel, and with 200A service, I can power a heat pump, heat pump water heater, all electric kitchen and laundry, and an EV charger, with Amps to spare. This is in the mild Bay Area, and my heat pump draws about 6A (15A breaker). The largest loads are EV and cooktop/stove. A 3000sqft custom house built to high performance standards (airtight and well insulated) can be space heated in a cold climate with a heat pump that draws no more than 24A (40A breaker) using a heat pump. At that load a modern heat pump will make 40kBTU of heat. There are many examples of this across Canada. I just now read that they have an outdoor heated pool, though, so crazy as it sounds they are presumably using electricity to heat it. > plus propane. Apart from backup water heating when the power goes out, their hot tub will waste huge amounts of energy, so propane might be operationally cheaper than electricity.
- slingnow 5y agoCan someone please retitle this to "Building a multi-million dollar mansion in the woods"? "Modern home" makes it sound quaint and interesting. Instead this is just someone throwing a lot of money at a giant dwelling.
- sdflhasjd 5y agoYes, I was hoping for something more insightful around DIY, costs and sustainability. Instead it's an article with some nice pictures that mostly boils down to "pay someone else to do it" and I almost laughed when I got to the bit where they were using too much electricity and their solution is just to burn more gas :/
- drecoe 5y agoIf this sort of thing interests you but you can't afford a multi-million dollar build I'd recommend checking out Theron Humphrey's work building a modern lakeside home in Montana (https://www.thiswildidea.com/casa https://www.thiswildidea.com/casa). He built a simple, modern and affordable (think low 6 figure) home and did a good amount of the work himself while sharing info on the process. Apparently he's embarking on a new build this year in Arizona and sharing more in-depth info on his youtube.
- CalRobert 5y agoI haven't used them myself (I live in Europe) but in the US there are companies that will build passive houses and ship them to you in parts. https://www.phoenixhaus.com/ https://www.phoenixhaus.com/ comes to mind. I took a similar approach to building a new house on a field in Ireland - my house was built in Latvia and assembled in a week or so by a local crew.
- trosi 5y agoCare to share which company you bought it from? I am also based in Europe and have been thinking about a similar project.
- ggcdn 5y agoInteresting read, who hasn't dreamt of doing something like this (perhaps at different scales). I've started saving for a parcel of land in the Kootenays to build a.. ahem... much less grandiose dwelling for weekend getaways. I would invest in a couple of these [0] [0] http://www.onestopfire.com/sprinklers.htm http://www.onestopfire.com/sprinklers.htm
- brailsafe 5y agoThe Kootenays are beautiful and it's probable that you'll find a less costly piece of land. Good luck
- louis___ 5y agoSo sad to see a somewhat wild area got uglied with a shiny, propane-powered mansion. Poor birds will just fly away from this spot
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- a3w 5y agoDon't. Woods need to burn down every once in a while, or they will burn down for good.
- nathias 5y agowhy do people find these abject squares beautiful?
- toastedwedge 5y agoIt's different from traditional square houses. Most houses are a big box with a sloping roof, so anything that deviates from that expectation is interesting (for some). My 2¢ from observation. I could be completely wrong, too.
- wffurr 5y agoI had a similar thought; why design a pile of boxes like that? Seems weird to me.
- tiborsaas 5y agoI don't know, but it's beautiful. Maybe because of the ratios, maybe because it looks so intentional, it relaxes me. At the same time, I find these boxes horrible: https://nlc.p3k.hu/uploads/2019/07/ferencvarosi-helytorteneti-gyujtemeny-jozsef-attila-lakotelep-1024x755.jpg https://nlc.p3k.hu/uploads/2019/07/ferencvarosi-helytortenet...
- ajuc 5y agoI wonder why people always post commieblocks photographed in a cloudy day in the winter. Usually also just after they were built so no trees yet. In reality that's how they look like (3 photos from 3 different districts in my city): https://spoldzielnialsm.pl/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Obecnie_3_800.jpg https://spoldzielnialsm.pl/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Obecni... https://d-art.ppstatic.pl/kadry/k/r/1/7e/04/5ed7c0329f818_o_large.jpg https://d-art.ppstatic.pl/kadry/k/r/1/7e/04/5ed7c0329f818_o_... https://d-art.ppstatic.pl/kadry/k/r/1/79/a3/52da7c5466e91_o_large.jpg https://d-art.ppstatic.pl/kadry/k/r/1/79/a3/52da7c5466e91_o_... And frankly, they are much better designed than most modern neighborhoods built today in my country. A school, healthcare, some local shops, library, park, playground, sport infrastructure in 10 minute walking distance and public transport making it possible not to have a car. Also - for the CO2 emissions that canadian house causes you could comfortably support about 100 families living in the commieblocks. With no fancy solar panels nor heatpumps.
- anm89 5y agoThis is a dream of mine. I recently started talking to architects about getting started on the design process of a similar but smaller and simpler home and I was blown away by how much more expensive it was to build a home of this quality than what I'd been reading online. It looks like as of 2022, you are looking at about probably $600-800/sqft to build something like this for my smaller simpler version. Potentially over $1000 / sqft to match the quality in the post
- tuckerpo 5y agotl;dr have a lot of dosh.
- Gravityloss 5y agoIs there a post about the technology of the house? I'm interested especially in energy conservation technology like insulation, windows, heating solution, foundation etc...
- jfk13 5y agoI wouldn't necessarily look to someone who thinks their house needs a 400A power supply for energy conservation wisdom.
- Gravityloss 5y agoI wasn't looking for wisdom but potential explanation...
- bradlys 5y agoBuild channel by Matt Risinger on YouTube is good.
- Gravityloss 5y agoI meant explanation why this particular house consumes so much energy... Anyway a rhetorical question as the article was mostly about the visual and social aspects.
- georgewfraser 5y agoIt’s too bad they didn’t share their final costs, there’s very little public info on how much custom builds like this really cost. I think people are a little embarrassed by how much they spent and so they don’t want to reveal it.
- totalview 5y agoBetter title: Bragging about how big of a modern American mansion we can build in the woods
- jacquesm 5y agoThe carbon footprint of this individual is off the scale. He's got a funny idea of what 'low impact' means. Low impact is a well insulated residential flat. This is extreme impact.
- xienze 5y agoHe probably figures hey, I’ve got solar and I’m paying extra for hydro power, so I’m more carbon-neutral than you are!
- StillBored 5y agoHard to call it modern with those kinds of energy demands. I'm on a similar path, but a large part of the plan is to have a minimal footprint. I have access to a community well and electricity, but the goal to make it self sufficient enough to be off grid, while maintaining a reasonable lifestyle. So instead of a heated pool/etc the money would be going into solar arrays and batteries and a well. Plus, pools suck, sure its a lot of fun for the kids a few weeks of the year, but they tend to sit unused most of the time, while consuming electricity, chemicals, etc. I have a heater that broke a few years ago, and i haven't bothered to fix it because getting out of an outdoor heated pool when its 60F or colder just isn't something most people enjoy. So I just stopped heating it long before it broke.
- mizay7 5y agoAlways intrigued by this idea. But the thing that I never see addressed in these discussions: what's the plan for schooling? just do small local rural schools? do online supplementation? This is the sticking point that keeps me from going far down this path.
- greedo 5y agoMy kids are grown, but when I think of building in the woods/mountains, I'm now thinking of medical services.
- Ekaros 5y agoI would also think about services in general. Then again I suppose that as European my travel tolerances are much lower.
- ziggus 5y agoIt appears that this is a second home, not their primary residence.
- bradlys 5y agoYep. It’s weird because it definitely sounded like it was their primary home from the article. But - it sounds like it’s just a ski resort home that’s a bit far from the resorts…
- adamcharnock 5y agoI've done this in Portugal, but on a smaller scale and pretty much with only my own labor. I purchased 6 hectares (15 acres) for mid-5-figures. I've built an A-frame studio house for around €10k (excl tools), and installed a 5kw solar system for about another €10k. The house has air conditioning and underfloor heating (water-based, heated using wood from the land). I've also brought a 50-year-old tractor and started a rural ISP. AMA, I guess? House: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sx8hj9s4u7n6ef9/My%20house.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/sx8hj9s4u7n6ef9/My%20house.jpg?dl=... ISP: https://gardunha.net/en/ https://gardunha.net/en/ ----- Just to add some thoughts that the questions below prompted. I've realised that I really enjoy infrastructure projects. I get to be sat in my little house and phone up huge telecommunication companies and ask for things. Our provider lit up 250km of fibre to our local single-track train station. I get to do lots of stuff where I think, "errr.... am I allowed to do this?", and I love it. The large providers are skeptical at first, but once they realise you are registered with the national telecoms regulator they realise that you're actually serious and get onboard. They were bemused, but they went with it. I think they actually found it nice to work with a mom-and-pop organisation for a change.
- hankchinaski 5y agoWhich area of portugal is this? I was looking to do exactly the same. Buy a cheap land and build a small house myself. I am just wary or property tax, bureaucracy and construction costs. Would love to read blogpost about your experience on this
- adamcharnock 5y agoI'm in Central Portugal. It is the Gardunha region (known for its cherry growing). Between Fundao, Castelo Branco, and Penamacor. I don't think property tax is a big deal. Bureaucracy is a PITA, but accountants, lawyers, and architects are cheap. Use them and it'll all be easier, and likely cheaper in the long run. Construction costs are going up around here. The price I heard 4 years ago was €500-€750/m2 of house construction minimum. Land should cost around €1/m2, although it will be more if it has a habitable house or is being sold as 'you can build a house here' plot. I got planning permission (via an architect) to build a 300m2 house on an agricultural-only plot of land, although I didn't go through with it. Rules vary by region, but around here you can fairly easily get planning permission if you own more than 2ha of land. Get in touch if you want to talk more! Email is on my website. (asking questions here is also great)
- gigatexal 5y agomy takeaway: it sure is nice to be rich. nice home; kudos but is this really HN material ;-)
- carabiner 5y agoThis is HN male oriented wealth porn. Just as some women fantasize about dream weddings and pore over the NYTimes Vows section, or some teens watch influencers give tours of their high-rise apartments, we have HN men who really, really want an ultra modern mansion in the woods. The craving for luxury is universal and it's no surprise this guy is a senior engineer at Slack. Seriously, what an extraordinary house.
- shtopointo 5y agoGoogle "climate change site:https://johnnyrodgers.is/ https://johnnyrodgers.is/"
- DeRock 5y agoI did that and found: https://johnnyrodgers.is/On-Earth https://johnnyrodgers.is/On-Earth I honestly cannot connect the person who wrote the above with the one who designed and built what is an absurdly inefficient unnatural mansion in what used to be some pristine wilderness. Talk about cognitive dissonance.
- shtopointo 5y agoYup...
- jkestner 5y agoI wish there were more detailed blogs on the building process. I really liked this construction blog with estimates and final numbers by category that educate you on how plans meet reality. https://ahousebythepark.com/journal/ https://ahousebythepark.com/journal/
- thecrumb 5y agoThis should be title 'Hiring someone else to build a modern home in the wood (if you have a lot of money)'
- dleslie 5y agoWe recently moved from Vancouver to the Island; and made a similar calculus about locations at which to live. I have a friend who ended up with 160+ acres in the interior, whereas I've settled on a quarter acre on the central island. There's a reason for this difference... What's I found _conspicuously_ absent from the author's considerations was anything at all regarding their children. Elementary schools, family doctors, even the local density of children near to their age. Houses in the woods are lovely for a family to visit for some of the year, and are lovely for reclusive adults; but they severely restrict the opportunities to fulfill the needs of children.
- lazide 5y agoDual income no kids maybe?
- dleslie 5y agoThey have two kids, it's shown in the article, and mentioned.
- reducesuffering 5y agoIn the article it's also mentioned that it's a second / ski home. They still have a duplex in the city.
- prteja11 5y agoHow much did this quarter acre cost on central island if you don’t mind sharing? And is it a good location for schooling young kids (5/6 yr olds)?
- dleslie 5y agoNo problem. Roughly 700k CAD. I'm half a block from a pump park and playground, a block from the elementary school, and two blocks from the ocean. Not city blocks, mind you. Each block is roughly large enough to hold 4 acres of land. For my young kids it's night and day; they are much happier than when they were living in Vancouver. We have a large house with enough rooms for everyone to have their own; more yard than we know what to do with; and the kids are safe to run around outside without being heavily monitored. Unlike where we left, where they shared a tiny bedroom, the parks had to be swept for broken glass and used needles, and we had no yard to speak of. There are gangs of roving kids all over the place, every evening and weekend; it's totally unlike living in the big city. The only downside is that family doctors are hard to come by; you basically can't access non-emergency health care without one, either, as there's only one drop in clinic for the entire region. But that's a province-wide crisis that the NDP government seems happy to ignore.
- chimen 5y agoWhat's modern about that house? Ridiculous amount of electricity required, flat roof in an area where snow is expected for a big portion of the year, heated outside pool, very remote but VERY dependant on electricity, internet and TV must be fun. It all starts kicking in pretty fast once you move in and realise your kids grow up alone because there's nobody in their age group for miles, no days when you feel like doing nothing (especially in the winter), no way your kids can play outside (in the wilderness) unsupervised, no way can they play outside when it's darker - so many WTF's and ifs there. That's something I would build when I retire and grow sick of the world. Even asylums can be "modern" I'll give you that.
- ilamont 5y agoI was thinking about the kids, too. Children need real and regular contact with classmates and peers, as the pandemic has demonstrated. Having a luxe bedroom and a heated pool in the middle of the wilderness doesn't make up for extended periods of loneliness and isolation.
- lariati 5y agoIt is modern as in modernist style of design. I don't get it though either. That style is for flexing and showing off to other people. In that location I would want a baddass log cabin.
- cols 5y agoBeautiful house and there was a day I would have been extremely jealous but... I live in Oregon and in 2020 chose to (was not officially in an evac zone but the smoke was awful) evacuate when the horrible Beachie Creek and Lionshead [0] fires ripped through the Santiam Canyon. Houses that my wife and I had looked at possibly purchasing were torched, as well as some of the most pristine ancient forest I've seen [1]. My outlook about living in the forest drastically changed after these events. The Beachie Creek fire reached 130,000 acres overnight at a growth rate of 2.77 acres per SECOND. [2]. You couldn't pay me enough money to live in a forest at this point. It's just too damn dangerous. Also, the flat roof seems problematic. Everyone I know in the PNW who has owned a flat roof has had issues with it due to pooling water. That far north, I imagine snow accumulation would also be a really big problem in terms of stress on the roof. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santiam_Fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santiam_Fire [1] - https://www.opb.org/article/2021/09/02/oregon-field-guide-opal-creek-after-beachie-creek-fire/ https://www.opb.org/article/2021/09/02/oregon-field-guide-op... [2] - https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/7001/ https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/7001/
- rootusrootus 5y agoFunny, I've actually considered buying property in that area now that it's been cleared of houses. With a bit of planning, it should be possible to make it more resistant to another wildfire roaring through. I'd still build myself a couple of contingency plans anyway, of course, and buy good insurance.
- cols 5y agoGood luck to you! It is truly beautiful out there, even still. If you clear out an acre or two around your house and have some kind of fire line you'd probably be fine. I'd be concerned about the road to your house and how accessible it is to a major hwy. Several folks died after being trapped on North Fork Rd and it's not hard to see why. It's a super tight, two lane road that goes for miles and miles. After the fire started, there were apparently miles of treefall up and down the road. No way you get out from that even on a dirt bike.
- anonAndOn 5y agoA hot tub is easily super insulated, brominated and locked up but I'm pretty sure a heated outdoor pool in the mountains is going to end up costing him far more time and money than he budgeted for, especially if there are no pool services in the area.
- astockwell 5y agoTo all the questions about including costs, the only blog I've ever come across that was transparent and honest about costs of building a custom home was Mike Davidson in http://ahousebythepark.com/journal/ http://ahousebythepark.com/journal/ Granted this was 2010-2012 on a super-desirable WA plot, and inflation has probably 2-3x'ed, but still, it's a very interesting read and a good model for how to disclose costs and still maintain a modicum of humility.
- GnarfGnarf 5y agoBig Achilles Heel: plowing the road to clear the snow so you can get to the hospital when somebody's appendix is about to burst.
- m0ngr31 5y agoTypically you plow right after it snows.
- GnarfGnarf 5y agoDo you have any idea what it's going to cost to do your own private plowing of a road that long and remote?
- m0ngr31 5y agoWell I do it already. About 1,000 feet for me right now. Once you have a tractor, it's just fuel and time.
- brailsafe 5y agoHelicopters bro
- tamaharbor 5y agoWow, rough crowd.
- subpixel 5y agoThis reminds me a lot of time I spend reading Dwell magazine a decade ago. Since that time, I've moved past the point where building such a house is impossible for me financially, but I've also moved past the point where such a house is attractive to me. I saved up a lot of back issues of Dwell thinking I'd refer to them when building a dream home, and in a move a few years ago I threw them out. It felt exactly like what I imagine throwing out an adult magazine collection might feel like - oddly relieving. Like airbrushed nude photos in Playboy (showing my age, I know), grand home schemes of all kinds are a pursuit of perfection. But nothing is perfect, or stays that way very long, and the higher your expectation and expense in relation to objects-as-happiness, the greater the disappointment. I really am a sucker for innovative architecture, but for me, innovation is about dealing with constraints, not conquering nature and heating your pool at all costs.
- vonseel 5y agoYeah, it blew my mind that having a pool was so important to someone in a cold place like Canada. We have a pool in Texas and while it was installed with propane heating 30 years ago, the heating has really never been used as it’s not efficient to do so. I can’t imagine how much it would cost to heat a pool in the author’s climate.
- stickfigure 5y agoA pool heater just expands the swimming season. You don't heat it year 'round, but it may be the difference between a 4-month pool and a 6-month pool. Also it's fun to throw parties with a nighttime 90 degree pool. Our pool costs about an hour and $10 to increase each degree. Sometimes it's worth it.
- dan-robertson 5y agoWell it’s cold in the winter but I thought Vancouver was reasonably warm in the summer.
- Tiktaalik 5y agoIn the central and eastern parts of Canada the summers can get scorching hot and humid and a pool would be lovely to have. In this particular part of Canada though, more known for its mild summers, not so much. In Vancouver there's honestly maybe only two weeks in july when it's hot enough when you'd really appreciate a pool. Now this is a bit inland, so maybe it gets hotter, but still, yeah it's a luxury that is not gonna be used often.
- sdze 5y agoNo Costs listed. Didn't read it.
- flooow 5y agoI ctrl-F for 'cost', then for '$', nothing. Close tab.
- kerneloftruth 5y agoI think you're supposed to just be mesmerized by (and envious of) these wonderful people. Quite a "hey, look at us" piece.
- thatfrenchguy 5y agoFirst comment from my partner was “I don’t know if this is the Parasite house of an Apple Store” :-). But really, so many weird decisions here that make no sense: why would you put your kid’s bed next to your bedroom in a new build? Why the bathrooms next to the bedrooms for your kid? Why cement floors and no floor heating? How did you end up at 400A/96kw of service (my car charges slower than that!). Why not building a indoor pool instead of a outdoor one? Feels a lot like your architect and contractors saw you had too much tech money and not enough common sense. That, and the fake pretending to care about the environment when you live in the middle of nowhere and have a heated outdoor pool with 96kw of service in Canada is just astounding!
- carabiner 5y agoIt's the REI HQ: https://www.geekwire.com/2020/facebook-buys-reis-new-hq-367m-expanding-seattle-area-footprint-3m-square-feet/ https://www.geekwire.com/2020/facebook-buys-reis-new-hq-367m...
- glxxyz 5y agoThat exposed wood with no rain protection will age terribly. I've seen quite a few houses for sale with this sort of design that probably looked good new too.
- m_ke 5y agoThat's not true, if you have spacers behind the wood it should dry properly and last a long time. See https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-001-the-perfect-wall https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-001-t...
- turtlebits 5y agoWithout overhangs and gutters, you are going to have a lot more water exposure to your siding, windows and doors which will definitely affect longevity. In a snow climate, this is even worse. The concerning part is all the exposed windows, which aren't sealed to the framing at the bottom. There's a much larger chance of water ingress.
- david38 5y ago
- alfor 5y agoThe form is incredibly inefficient. It look a bit like design magazine, but the price you pay for that is incredible. Look at the surface area of exterior walls and roofs compared to the inside volume! A design like a four square would probably cost 1/3-1/2 of this for the same volume and be way easier to heat.
- carabiner 5y agoStrong resemblance can be seen to the former REI headquarters building in Bellevue, WA: https://www.geekwire.com/2020/facebook-buys-reis-new-hq-367m-expanding-seattle-area-footprint-3m-square-feet/ https://www.geekwire.com/2020/facebook-buys-reis-new-hq-367m...
- deltaonefour 5y agoKind of off topic, but anybody know how I would gain the skills of building a house from scratch without quitting my day job as a developer?
- mikeg8 5y agoFirst step is to thoroughly understand the building process and sequence of construction as well as all the materials, fasteners, tools, etc. Then for building, start small with a chicken coop or shed with relatively low risk if the build goes south. Going from zero to house without serious supervision from experience builders is a recipe for a failed structure. Check out Larry Haun's books as well as the Essential Craftsman Youtube channel where he films an entire house build. Also the Build Channel with Matt Risinger is great for more advance topics.
- anonAndOn 5y agoYou're going to need to figure out what trades you want to do and what ones you'll need/want to hire out. Volunteer to work on other people's projects for free (or beer) to see what you enjoy working on. For example, Habitat for Humanity and other home building charities often need bodies and can be a good way to sample different aspects of a build. Then, start small and try your hand at something simple like a shed. Once you've shelled out for all of the tools you'll need to build a shed, you're well on your way to the investment in tools you'll need to build a home and can decide from there whether to proceed.
- brailsafe 5y agoThis is a great suggestion. I'd probably add some level of preliminary education, but do you know if Habitat helps with or requires that?
- anonAndOn 5y agoMy limited experience with Habitat is they will train you on the job for whatever they're doing that day. If you can drive a nail or use a miter saw, you'll be greatly appreciated.
- rootusrootus 5y agoThis is something sort of like what I want to do, though I think my budget is probably an order of magnitude smaller.
- belval 5y ago> BC Hydro’s solar payback plan is regressive: generation on grid-tied installations only allows you to pay your bill down to $0. You cannot earn money or credit for producing more than you use. It's not regressive, it's because BC is not California and peak power consumption in the mid-late afternoon is not a thing. Paying people to feed the grid when the sun shine just doesn't make sense in that region. I'm usually pretty cool with these success blog post, but something about this one really makes me angry. It feels like the author just consider himself to be above the people that actually lives there.
- runjake 5y agoI did not know software engineers could get this rich. It seems outlandish. That house must have cost a fortune. Or am I just way under-paid compared to the rest of you? Also, who checked off on the flat roofs in that location?
- brailsafe 5y agoWould be nice if they were a little more transparent about these numbers instead of being incredibly vague. Salaries in Vancouver have not kept up with housing costs.
- lazide 5y agoYou’d probably just get really angry - likely well north of $1m in raw construction costs.
- brailsafe 5y agoI can see why it would make some ppl angry, but I know how much the house is worth, and it's not much different in the city, but in terms of what it takes to get it done in $$ I haven't a clue, so it's something to be curious about. If anything, it would be a consolation if the development costs were not that far removed from the current value, meaning the person has a lot of money (obviously) but didn't necessarily make out with crazy short term profits. With that information, you can kind start to think through whether or not it'd be feasible to do it at a smaller scale given some of the fixed costs in preparing the land and so on.
- bradlys 5y agoAs soon as they started talking about paying cash + HELOC against their duplex in the city - I knew this guy had a fuck load of money. This isn’t your average dude - it’s someone who got rich off of tech. If you’re not in that ballpark - not likely worth thinking about tbh. Watch builder videos on YouTube if you want to get an idea of how much this costs.
- 5y ago
- rexreed 5y agoThere's a fetish for tiny homes, a fetish for semi-off-grid living, a fetish for impractical homes in impractical places. YouTube is full of these projects. Curiously many tiny homes and impractical off-grid home projects seem to be abandoned and turn into half-built or mostly-compromised results. I'd attach some links to those YouTube channels, but I don't want to send them any traffic because at this point it has become less about the home and more about the fetish.
- porknubbins 5y agoThis house and lot are incredible and I would love to build a modern home in the woods, but I feel like this article was missing a disclaimer somewhere "Step 1 be rich" - even though land in Canada may not be super expensive this project was clearly in the one to several million dollar range.
- dan-robertson 5y agoSure but step 1 is reasonably attainable for lots of people working in tech in North America. It seems like a ‘have (two?) good tech jobs for a while and get a bit lucky’ money rather than ‘inherit some enormous fortune’ money.
- porknubbins 5y agoYes its not an outrageous amount, I was just expecting something more diy/homesteading from “Building a home in the woods” then it was more hire contractors and an architech and build a massive modern house in the woods.
- notatoad 5y agoThe whole tone of this article with respect to money is really frustrating. The guy is obviously very wealthy, but doesn't want to admit it. he really wants to feel as if he's sharing the struggles that normal people have, like getting a mortgage, but the "struggle" is just a vanity thing for him - he wants to feel like he's still normal, so he's pretending to have financial worries that he doesn't actually have to have. if he could just admit that he built a silly house because he's rich AF and he can, it'd be a lot more respectable.
- tiku 5y agoWish I could do that in my country.. a piece of land is very expensive here if there is a permit to build a house on it.
- freetime2 5y agoI have often dreamed about buying a vacation property. But when I seriously consider it, the idea of owning a second property stresses me out. There is the time and money investment to buy and maintain the property. Then there is the worry about a home being vacant most of the time - is a pipe going to burst or is someone going to break into it? And there is the guilt when you aren’t using it - would we realistically be able to visit even once per month? Perhaps if I were significantly wealthier, the financial burden would be less and I could pay someone else to deal with any issues that arise. But for now, I feel like a second home would own me more than I own it.
- kgran 5y agoNow imagine you're hiking in the woods and, all of a sudden, you reach a fence with a sign "PRIVATE PROPERTY NO TRESPASSING". Years go by and even more rich people build such homes in the woods. Now you're hiking in the woods, constantly passing through gravel roads leading to these properties and hearing traffic noise of a more major road where some cars from some of these houses went to fill the propane tank, buy food supplies or whatever.
- glxxyz 5y agoI didn't build it but I live in a modern home in the woods. Just outside Toronto, surrounded by trees about 600 metres from the nearest road or house. Modern as in built 5 years ago but not a 'modern' design like the article. A flat roof without eaves looks great but is impractical in Canada. As well as protecting the walls and footings from rain, eaves allow the low winter sun to shine through the windows, but keep out the high summer sun (trees block the low summer sun for us). The only connected service we have is electricity, I'm planning to add a barn with solar panels on the roof so we may not need that soon.
- incanus77 5y agoIt's funny, at first glance of that top photo, I was sure I had seen it in a Blender tutorial video and it might even be the same (rendered) image). But no, I found it and although the layout is strikingly similar, it's not it. Photo: https://cortex.persona.co/w/768/i/dee5ee05cc81d757e22f2338abdc9f45ced6d661a2eef8139b50b26ff3740b28/IMG_4649.JPG https://cortex.persona.co/w/768/i/dee5ee05cc81d757e22f2338ab... Render: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyXRBu7gn2o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyXRBu7gn2o (0:36 in)
- brailsafe 5y agoThat Slack money must be nice ;) With no intention of attacking the author, but as someone renting in Vancouver, I think excluding costs while regularly hinting that they didn't have much of a budget seems a bit off, if not even just to add a transparent datapoint to the corpus of potential Canadian/Vancouver salaries that have been stagnating for years, while Johnny and his family likely saw massive appreciation on their duplex between what seems like 2014 and now. It's not easy to support a family in this city, so no matter how much you make, owning anything and having two children is going to be tight, and I wouldn't assume you're being disingenuous about that, but if you're cool, break down the actual overall costs. Not necessarily what the specific contractors charged you, but probably an approximation of what your take home salary is and what it cost to build. It wouldn't be terribly difficult to geogeuss the location and property assessment, but it would be slightly more charitable to be upfront. > A lot of people dream of building a modern home. Or rather, a lot of people dream of living in a modern home. A place of their own, with the people they love, surrounded by functional beauty and considerate form. A lot of people in this city, even in tech, couldn't dream of owning anything, but this article has the potential to be inspiring. The median salary earned in Vancouver at a tolerable savings rate would require 35 years to own a detached home. > I hope you’re able to fulfill your own dreams too. Well... Edit: It was trivial to track this information down, it's named in the article. I won't reveal the address, but I'll add the cost of land and current value of the property if the author doesn't. Overall the property gained at least 1.8M in taxable value as far as public records are concerned, but it would be awesome to get a sense of what it actually cost to build.
- Mandatum 5y agoThis is the type of house that gets published in architecture and "Home" magazines as inspiration. The thing is most of those houses do a bit of media and advertising to help pay costs. It's partly sponsored and used by architects to sell their services. The "FU Money" emanating from this article is palpable. Good for OP - it's amazing, but boy sometimes the shit you read from tech folk is so detached from the regular every-day experience of regular people. "Building a modern home in the woods", really?
- 5y ago
- d23 5y agoI wish he mentioned the total cost. It's nice that this amount of information is provided for those that would want to do similar, but by the same token, I'd need some sort of ballpark cost estimate to know whether I should even begin thinking about something like this.
- bradlys 5y agoIt’s likely $1m minimum. Assessed value was $1.8m. I can’t imagine that home being less than $1m just for construction costs. $250/sqft for custom is a reasonable floor - and that’s for a pretty basic house. This is quite upscale with some weird ass options and a finicky customer - so the design and construction firm are going to take them for a ride. This guy has a lot of tech money. He speaks of financial prudence but it’s more that he was eyeballing 8 figure when he could only afford 7 figure. That’s the level he’s playing at.
- dpatru 5y agoThanks for posting this. It’s a beautiful house. I’m sorry for all the negativity.
- turtlebits 5y agoIt's just another nice house, there's nothing interesting about the house build. No real construction details. It is "modern" in architecture, but makes a lot of aesthetic choices over function (flat roof, no overhangs, a heated pool in a cold climate).
- twobitshifter 5y agoFlat roofs can be functional. As the sq footage grows the area and volume needed for a pitched roof will grow much more. At the extreme of a 12:12 pitch you’d have 40% more materials for the roof and you’d create 50% more volume within the house. Additionally the space of the flat roof can be functional and used as an outdoor living space, unlike a typical pitched roof.
- Ansil849 5y agoWhy is there no mention of the total cost of this?
- shmerl 5y agoLooks very open. Would you get bears like wandering into the house?
- nhoughto 5y agoInteresting write up, a not comparable example as my house build was nothing like this scale or cost (I imagine), but during building our house it was interesting to observe where problems came from and how they could be fixed. The architects -> engineering -> builder handoff is obviously the most lossy, tons of context/intent/purpose is lost in these steps, and normal way incentives align doesn't help with each group being sympathetic to the greater mission, the more they care or clarify etc the more time things take / cost incurred. It is natural to assume everyone is thinking the same as you and will be motivated because you are paying them, but they rarely are, they care less about the result than you do so staying on top of the details you care about throughout the process is a must. What worked great for us was to have the builder part of the architecture design process and inject their learnings of how to actually build the thing along the way, rather than trying to bolt it on at the end. This isn't normally the way things work as normally architectural drawings are a primary input to a tender process to find a builder.. so is a bit cart before horse but we already had a builder so could avoid that.
- hbarka 5y agoI love your tidy website. Peeked under and found persona.co and Cargo Site Builder. How do you like it?
- blhack 5y agoIf you're interested in this sort of thing, there is a youtuber called "Essential Craftsman" who did a lengthy (multi-year) series going through, in exquisite detail, the process of building a house. He is a general contractor who did or oversaw almost all of the work himself. It covers everything from finding land, to prepping it, goes into a tremendous amount of detail about framing, and concrete work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn4L_aJ1rV4&list=PLRZePj70B4IwyNn1ABhJWmBPeX1hGhyLi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn4L_aJ1rV4&list=PLRZePj70B4... Seriously cannot recommend this enough. It's a treasure that he created all of this and put it onto youtube for free.
- yoyopa 5y agowow look at all these obstacles we overcame by being rich
- moralestapia 5y agoWish the author shared numbers regarding the cost of the lot + construction, etc...
- doublepower 5y agoWe're about to embark on a similar (less fancy) project on San Juan Island in WA. The architect we're working with built a more modest, energy efficient home (designated ZERH, zero energy ready home) similar to what we're shooting for. Her blog is wonderfully detailed about building choices, complexity, tradeoffs, etc: https://www.domaindesignarchitects.com/blog https://www.domaindesignarchitects.com/blog
- bogomipz 5y agoWhat a beautiful home and and setting. I was curious about a couple of design choices given the environment though: Wouldn't the flat roof be problematic in area with significant snow accumulation? Wouldn't the amount of glass also be problematic in terms heating efficiency? Would a home like this require significant maintenance? As fantastic as that roof is, wouldn't it also require constant landscaping? Similarly with the pool, I'm wondering if maintaining a pool in the forrest with no barrier or fencing like this would be almost a daily undertaking.
- cheesedoodle 5y agoBuilding a house is an incredible feat, the caveats of it are hard to understand for the casual bystander. There's a lot of comments here criticizing this project based on personal preferences, it's great that you managed to create something you are satisfied with! My experience from building our first, and so far only, house are quite different. Having a limited budget (unlike what the blog post let you believe) was extremely stressful due to a large number of economical factors hard to foresee as a novice developer. Land development comes with so many gotchas and bills needs to be paid, else, the build stops. Groundwork are most important and the economical impact will be great. We also had the romanticised view of "minimal site disruption", and modeled the house for it. In the end, the result was inevitable "site disruption" anyway. Make choices based on what you want, not based on whats there, the site will be so different anyway, it might be better to "create a new one" from start. I can relate to the post. It took us 5 years from buying land, design grandios, re design more down to earth, permits, sourcing materials and finding-, firing-, re-hiring- local contractors, digging and building, until we finally where finished with the body and interior of a house. The sheer effort in doing this is astounding. We live in a beautiful one of kind house as a result. The one of kind also brings problems; Flat roof, Shu shogiban facade, oiled hardwood floors, limestone, large fixed windows, mosaic tiles. We have it all; great to look at and too feel, not so great when salt from outside makes stains on limestone, dogs make large pee stains on oiled floors, windows unreachable to be cleaned, tiles collecting dirt and open floor plans supporting sound travel more than we could previously understand. In retrospect, it's very easy to make the wrong decisions, how ever prepared you previously thought you were, as new decisions needs to be made a la minute onsite, all the time. The author seems well read about the technical part of their house, I cant help but feel they where overrun by contractors deciding what and what not should be installed. It is a shame they could not find a solution the geothermal heating. Nothing is said about ventilation or insulation. Not much feels "modern" to this build except the shape of it.
- RichardHeart 5y agoThe first site I've met where I can't reduce the size of the text by zooming out.