32 ms·

Why are semi trucks in the US and Europe so different? (2018)

289 points by ushakov 5y ago

njharman 5y ago
https://www.roadprobrands.com/blog-posts/what-happened-to-cabovers https://www.roadprobrands.com/blog-posts/what-happened-to-ca...
pier25 5y ago
Do European trucks make less noise too? I'm from Spain but moved to Mexico 13 years ago. Here it's somewhat common to hear truck noises like when doing engine braking. I don't recall ever hearing that in Spain.
- consp 5y ago
  Maybe automatic vs manual gearboxes?
- bsedlm 5y ago
  As far as I'm aware, in the mexican transport industry is a common practice to overload the trucks as much as possible. This is so widespread that any company which doesn't do it is likely less profitable than all the rest which do overload hence they have to overload to be competitive. I like to frame this in terms of an overruling pragmatism in mexican culture, as long as the truck still goes everything is just fine. I suppose overloaded trucks (under more stress) are louder.
  - xenonite 5y ago
    It would be interesting to factor in the higher maintenance costs, including road maintenance.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  Europe has strict noise regulations that even regular trucks have a hard time meeting, much less a jake brake [1]. In the US these are no problem since such large swaths of the country are unpopulated, but here in Europe you got small villages next to highways all the time. Here, the more expensive hydraulic retarders are the most common brakes (additional to the standard brakes on the wheels, of course). [1]: https://www.verkehrsrundschau.de/nachrichten/nfz-fuhrpark/neue-laermgrenzwerte-sind-eine-herausforderung-fuer-lkw-hersteller-3001163 https://www.verkehrsrundschau.de/nachrichten/nfz-fuhrpark/ne...
  - nixass 5y ago
    Do truck in Europe even use jake brake? I cannot remember I've ever heard one, while in few days in the USA/CA I've heard one every single day on highway
    - mschuster91 5y ago
      It isn't even allowed to put jake brakes on trucks here, the model would not be certified as the noise emission limits have to be adhered at all times during the operation of the vehicle.
      - rootusrootus 5y ago
        Is that true, or just unmuffled jake brakes? It's pretty common in the US for unmuffled jake brakes to be prohibited in populated areas.
  - crottypeter 5y ago
    Another source on the "Jake brake" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_release_engine_brake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_release_engine_bra...
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      And to quote the important part: "Most diesel engines do not have a throttle body, so regardless of throttle setting a full charge of air is always drawn into the cylinders (excluding the valve fitted to certain diesels, such as fire appliances and generators on oil and gas platforms, to prevent diesel engine runaway). Compressed air generated during the compression stroke acts as an air spring to push the piston back down. As such, even with fuel supply cut off and no power strokes taking place, a portion of the energy absorbed by the compression stroke within each cylinder is returned to the crankshaft. This results in very little engine braking being applied to the vehicle. The typical compression brake consists of a hydraulic system using engine oil which transfers the motion of the fuel injector rocker arm to the engine's exhaust valve(s). When activated, the exhaust valve opens very briefly near the engine's top dead center, and releases the compressed air in the cylinder so that the energy is not returned to the crankshaft. If used properly, a compression release brake can assist a vehicle to maintain or even reduce speed with minimal use of the service brakes. The power of this type can be around the same as the engine power." Basically, jake brakes vent the compressed air in the cylinders at the top of the cycle.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  Most of the time engine braking is banned within US city limits, there are signs posted outside of towns "No engine braking".
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    It varies by region, I'm sure, but every sign I've ever seen prohibiting engine braking has been specific that only unmuffled engine braking is prohibited.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      No they aren't allowed whether they are muffled or not if it says "no engine breaking".
- ysangkok 5y ago
  Seems like Mexicans are not punished for taking off the muffler or generally just using 'unsafe' vehicles.
  - reaperducer 5y ago
    Seems like Mexicans are not punished for taking off the muffler or generally just using 'unsafe' vehicles. When I visit Juarez, I'm always surprised to see all of the used school buses that are no longer considered road-worthy in America that area used for all kinds of things. Very often they leave the names of the American schools on the side.
blipvert 5y ago
“I’ve got a semi” means something very different to right-pondians.
dmitriid 5y ago
Finally! Someone who asked and explored this question! I had this same question for years :)
- Kon-Peki 5y ago
  Agreed :) But I'm not quite sure I'm satisfied that this explains why they are so different. It is hard for me to believe that American semi-trucks are more fuel efficient than European ones (fuel is so much more expensive in Europe!), but this article seems to imply that they are.
  - goodcanadian 5y ago
    Aerodynamic efficiency matters much more in North America as average speeds are much higher over much longer distances. Wind resistance increases with the square of speed, so it is entirely possible that American trucks are burning more fuel per mile in spite of being more aerodynamic.
  - dharmab 5y ago
    Cab over is a less aerodynamic shape (it's essentially a box). Conventional designs allow more aero features.
    - kergonath 5y ago
      > Conventional designs allow more aero features. “Conventional” is such a poor label. Convention depends on the context. The conventional form factor here is cab over.
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        Like when Americans talk about a 'full size' car they mean an over-size one in our perspective.
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        Conventional in terms of trucks overall, cabover did not come first for trucks, nor is it a conventional design. It's not uncommon for non-cabover to be referred to as conventional. GP is using the correct terminology. https://www.innomotivesolutions.com/about/blog/item/cab-over-engine-vs-conventional-truck-which-do-you-prefer https://www.innomotivesolutions.com/about/blog/item/cab-over... https://www.smart-trucking.com/cabovers-make-a-comeback/ https://www.smart-trucking.com/cabovers-make-a-comeback/ https://powertorque.com.au/cabover-vs-conventional-and-euro-vs-usa/ https://powertorque.com.au/cabover-vs-conventional-and-euro-...
exabrial 5y ago
The better question is why are Russian trucks and their drivers so different: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_OcK0P9WOs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_OcK0P9WOs
- drpgq 5y ago
  So Optimus Prime was more the European style
  - causi 5y ago
    Cab-over trucks were more common in the US in the past.
    - reaperducer 5y ago
      Cab-over trucks were more common in the US in the past. I remember this, too. I had toy trucks when I was a kid and they were all the snub-nose design. Interestingly, school buses seem to have gone the opposite way. When I was a kid, they had the long nose, but now most that I see are snub-nosed. Does anyone know the term for those little "hopper" trucks that are used at ports and large post offices and such? The ones where the cab of the tractor trailer only exists on the left or right side of the tractor? I've heard that since they don't travel on public roads that they aren't subjected to environmental or safety rules.
      - throwawayboise 5y ago
        Yard tractors or terminal tractors. Sometimes called "yard dogs"
- Tempest1981 5y ago
  Check out the series "Long Way Round" if you have access. It has a Kamaz -- impressive to see the rivers it can cross. https://bestride.com/news/the-kamaz-that-saved-ewan-mcgregor-and-charlie-boorman-the-long-way-round-has-been-abandoned https://bestride.com/news/the-kamaz-that-saved-ewan-mcgregor...
sschueller 5y ago
It's definitely primarily because of the space on the streets. I would not want to try to maneuver a American Semi through Europe.
- frosted-flakes 5y ago
  The article states that it's because of length restrictions. European leangth restrictions include the truck, American restrictions don't.
  - flyingfences 5y ago
    Presumably, though, the length restrictions are due, at least in large part, to [lack of] available space on the streets.
  - the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
    The European length restrictions don't exist because someone hates long trucks but because city and road planers don't need to account for longer trucks than that. This is especially important because of parking. In the EU there are maximum driving hours for truckers which means they often need to take rests and the infrastructure needs to support that.
    - dahfizz 5y ago
      > In the EU there are maximum driving hours for truckers which means they often need to take rests and the infrastructure needs to support that. The same is true in the USA.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
        Specifically: - 14 hour days, maximum - high tolerance of pulled over "resting" trucks - conventional truck designs with builtin bedrooms - state-run and private truck stops along most highways
chayesfss 5y ago
Last point is a big one, geography of roads traveled is vastly different
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  In general, true. However, try driving the spectacularly scenic US550 road through the San Juans in southern Colorado, and note the completely regular semi-trucks negotiating this insane mountain road. I am sure this is not the only example.
blunte 5y ago
What I find surprising is how the majority of semis in Netherlands appear to be very new and presumably in good condition. In Texas, by contrast, few appear to be new and well maintained, while many look quite heavily used. The trailers are even worse. Considering how expensive those things are, who is affording the new trucks in NL? Is it because they are company owned instead of individual (owner-operator)? Where do the worn out NL semis go?
- Closi 5y ago
  As well as the other responses, it is very common to lease your fleet in Europe, particularly for 3PL's who will lease the fleet over the duration of their contracts. Most transport is done by 3PL's who will lease the trucks and hire the drivers.
- sumtechguy 5y ago
  You will find that wildly varies in the US too. For example Walmart has very nice trucks. But some random LTL probably has used equipment that is decades old. It comes down to the fact that most of this has a very thin margin. Large private company fleets tend to be newer. Small general delivery tend to be older.
  - intpx 5y ago
    and all of the owner/operators who specifically want pre year 2000 rigs so they don't have to have an ELD.
- orangepurple 5y ago
  > Where do the worn out NL semis go? African countries
- leto_ii 5y ago
  > Where do the worn out NL semis go? Eastern Europe, if I had to guess. I can't say specifically about semis, but in my home country of Romania I've seen quite a lot of Dutch clunker vans/small trucks roaming the streets (you can tell they're Dutch because they still have some of the original branding decals of the companies that used to own them).
jbkiv 5y ago
I remember when Mercedes Benz bought Freightliner, the major US truck manufacturer,in the 80s. The Mercedes Benz engineeers were astonished to see how UN-sophisticated the engineering of Freightliner trucks was. Example: no assisted steering!!! That choice was justified as more macho. I was told that assisted steering was not manly enough...
- kfarr 5y ago
  There can be value in simplicity - fewer things to break and easier to repair.
  - CountSessine 5y ago
    Exactly. The irony of Mercedes-Benz engineers marveling at how unsophisticated a simply-engineered vehicle is brought a smile to my face. Most owner-operator truck drivers want to be able to fix and maintain their trucks on their own, not bring the truck into the dealer every 3 months like some temperamental S-class. Although I guess Mercedes was still pretty reliable back in the 80's.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      MB trucks are an entirely different kettle of fish than the consumer and light transport stuff. It all changes above the 3500 kg mark.
      - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
        In the US their Sprinters compare to the competition about the same way an S-class compares to a Camry. In both cases it's generally considered ill-advised to own it into old age. I wouldn't call that "entirely different"
        jacquesm 5y ago
        Sprinters routinely clock half a million K. You need to maintain them but that goes for all vehicles. And they are still below that 3500 kg limit. It really starts at Atego: https://www.mercedes-benz-trucks.com/nl_NL/models/atego-construction.html https://www.mercedes-benz-trucks.com/nl_NL/models/atego-cons...
YPPH 5y ago
In Australia I've found the European style far more common, contrary what is suggested in the article. While we're on the topic of trucks, I've always had this pointless desire to get a non-synchronous transmission truck driver's licence. I just think it'd be fun learning to drive an 18 speed crash box with double clutching and clutch brakes - something I imagine will soon be a thing of the past. Regrettably, there's no real reason for me to get it. For now, the rational part of my brain is keeping this in check.
- jbothma 5y ago
  The whole article seems full of conjecture and generalisation. A big example: > Another advantage of a conventional cab design is that the truck can be more economical. Surely they usually pull heavier loads, but if there were two trucks, one a cab-over and another one a conventional cab design, and they had the same powertrain and the same cargo, the conventional cab truck would most likely use less fuel. Of course, that is just in theory – in reality there are too many factors to consider. I don't know... power, load and fuel economy is the kind of data that's extremely available about motor vehicles... this is something we can't figure out? Or were they just writing hearsay to push content and get clicks? ("Subscribe to our facebook. Loads of content coming soon!")
  - enragedcacti 5y ago
    > Or were they just writing hearsay to push content and get clicks? I think this is a very uncharitable interpretation. It has been decades in the US and Canada since cab overs fell out of style and thus you can't buy ones that take the same trade-offs as your average conventional truck. Comparing trucks designed for completely different regulatory, geographical, and practical constraints isn't going to net something useful so we have to make estimated guesses. It seems like it would be similar to comparing the fuel economy of an an unladen F-150 with an unladen F-350; They might do similar things but in practice there are so many capability trade-offs that it isn't a particularly interesting thing to do. As they said: > that is just in theory – in reality there are too many factors to consider.
  - zardo 5y ago
jack_riminton 5y ago
I've often wondered why European trucks don't have some sort of mechanism to make them more aerodynamic when they're on the highways i.e. an inflatable nose. The boxy design must cost a fortune in fuel
- noja 5y ago
  You have often wondered why trucks do not come with inflatable noses?
  - jack_riminton 5y ago
    yes
- SkyPuncher 5y ago
  From my understanding, the drag caused by the flat back of the trailer causing a vacuum is much more impactful than the front shape. I believe a "pillow" of air kind of builds up in the front. It also looks like truck in EU are limited to 55mph. When I tow our trailer (just with a normal vehicle), there's minimal difference between fuel economy between 45 and 60. Significant drops come into play at higher speeds.
  - colechristensen 5y ago
    Drag is proportional to the square of speed
    - SkyPuncher 5y ago
      Ah. Yes! I forget about this! In vehicles, there's a lot of additional, interesting factors at play - like engine efficiency.
      - colechristensen 5y ago
        Yes there will be many nonlinear factors which combine to a maximum efficiency speed, which can, to an extent, be chosen by design.
giorgioz 5y ago
I was interested in knowing the price of trucks and did some research: The Volvo VNL 2021 costs around 174.000$ That's the new model shown in the youtube video in the article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nY7Xfu47vw&feature=emb_logo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nY7Xfu47vw&feature=emb_logo Given semi-trucks are so expensive and heavely used I wonder why more companies don't focus autonomous vehicles for semi-trucks rather than robotaxis.
- skyde 5y ago
  maybe because its easier to persuade car owner to buy self-driving car.
- Heliosmaster 5y ago
  Or rail, which is vastly more efficient than trucks (which then could be used only for last-mile)
  - ApolloFortyNine 5y ago
    The US has more rail than any other country in the world. [1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_rail_transport_network_size https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_rail_tr...
    - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
      miles of track per square mile, or alternatively, miles of track per square mile of population above N-per-unit-area would be a much more meaningful statistic.
      - ApolloFortyNine 5y ago
        I'm not sure population is too important here, that stat would just make dense countries look 'better'. In reality if you want to ship something from California to DC by Rail, it really doesn't matter that 95% of those 3000 miles have almost no one living nearby. We're talking about Semi Trucks here, so clearly this conversation is in regards to cargo.
dukeofdoom 5y ago
I was a little curious if there was a difference in honking power. Now that it became political to honk at the world.
Hbruz0 5y ago
Ugh, one of those articles that paraphrases its title 5 times before giving a very short answer...
- SamBam 5y ago
  How can I make a 300 word article into an 800 word article? Actually, I think I just saw a GPT-3 application that allowed you to "lengthen" text.
  - Hokusai 5y ago
    > Actually, I think I just saw a GPT-3 application that allowed you to "lengthen" text. And a browser extension that shrinks it. And the AI wars continue.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
JPKab 5y ago
When I worked construction in my early 20s, I frequently had to drive various large trucks. I FUCKING LOVE the "cab over engine" design. The heightened visibility is everything. My favorite truck was an Isuzu model (don't remember which) that was as elegant as it could possibly be for driving on narrow mountain roads in southern Appalachia (I covered an area surrounding the Smokey Mountains in TN/NC).
- mig39 5y ago
  Those Isuzu trucks are still being made, and are popular in Australia, South Africa, etc. Hit Google Images with "Isuzu Truck" for examples.
bluedino 5y ago
Cab-over designs are used for things like garbage trucks. When I worked in transportation, people said they faded away because of crash-protection. My favorite cab-over semi is from the minibike chase scene in Terminator 2
IHLayman 5y ago
“That is also why Australian highways feature well-known road trains – extremely long distances and straight roads allow semi-trucks to pull up to four trailers.” Driving around double-trailers in Indiana always made me anxious, so I had to see this unnerving statement in its reality, and I found this article [0] that talks about Australian road trains. Evidently they are used on single lane roads in the Outback, which makes sense. But, I am still wondering, as there must be some warehouse to transition to single-trailer loads or else they wouldn’t be able to safely do last-mile delivery? [0]: https://www.smart-trucking.com/australian-road-trains/ https://www.smart-trucking.com/australian-road-trains/
- bombcar 5y ago
  You just park the truck and disconnect the extra trailers, usually there's a lot on the outskirts of town where the local short-haul trucks will take the trailers to their final destination.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  Driving around double-trailers in Indiana always made me anxious A bunch of American states permit triple trailers. Each individual trailer is a little shorter, but seeing all three going around a corner is a bit unnerving. Especially if they're heavy-load trailers that haul stuff like gravel or ore, because those are much longer to spread the weight out.
unethical_ban 5y ago
>In Europe Semi-trucks are limited to 90 km/h Wow! That's slower than almost every freeway speed limit in the United States, barring some urban spots.
- seszett 5y ago
  That's also slower than every freeway speed limit in Europe for cars. Trucks just have a lower speed limit. They are also limited to 80 km/h where cars are limited to 90 km/h.
  - masklinn 5y ago
    IIRC trucks also get special speed limits (usually to 80 or 70) on some difficult highway spots, they also often et additional semi-dedicated “slow vehicle” lanes on climbs.
  - unethical_ban 5y ago
    Interesting. I think parts of the US had truck speed limits, but we no longer have them. Same with night-time speed limits.
- fomine3 5y ago
  Trucks (almost all cabover) are limited to 80km/h in Japan, even in highway limited to 120km/h for cars.
smhg 5y ago
If others are wondering what a road train looks like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_train https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_train
rahoulb 5y ago
I'd never heard of a "semi-truck". I've always known of them as "artics" - short for articulated. Source: my childhood best friend's dad was a truck driver (not artic though) and a day out in the lorry was one of the best things to do in the school holidays. EDIT: I notice the linked article "why are they called semis" actually calls them articulated.
- TylerE 5y ago
  Basically, they're semi trucks because they pull semi trailers... which are trailers with rear axles only
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
TL;DR overall length restrictions. The US had cab-overs too back when we had length restrictions but the marginally more expensive operating cost and greatly reduced operator comfort resulted in conventional trucks taking over once those restrictions were lifted. Applications where length matters a lot still use cabovers.
tgtweak 5y ago
Ford used to make some cab-over semi trucks that were very popular in the US during the 80's and early 90's and resembled very closely the European designs of today. I think it's pretty obvious and comes down to a few things: * European trucks typically run shorter hauls, and do not require a bunk in the cab as often as multi-day cross-country runs. * European Semi's need to accommodate all countries' roads and parking lots. This means the much wider range of nonstandard roads, docks, fueling stations and parking lots extends much farther towards the "small" side. Tight streets and parking lots - making it necessary for the truck to be shorter for tighter turns and parking compatibility. * It has been proven that a cab-forward design is safer for avoiding accidents directly in front of the vehicles, something that is more focused on in the EU. * The least obvious but possibly the most relevant reason why it remains: Having and ingraining differing standards makes it harder for a single competitor to play into the both markets. EU is largely locked down by EU manufacturers since any US manufacturers would have to significantly change their design and production to sell there. The fuel economy point seems to be a distant consideration since the majority of drag economy comes from the trailer and not the tractor.
- martyvis 5y ago
  This Tesla was pushed for half a mile seemingly oblivious to the driver of this conventional cab semi. https://youtu.be/A5GePY23FxI https://youtu.be/A5GePY23FxI
- brainwipe 5y ago
  Although runs appear shorter in the EU, they're still multi-day. Lisbon to Edinburg is a 2000 mile drive. Most drivers kip in their cabs, not at home. IMO it's entirely down to the road networks. Driving across the US is like driving across one very broad road network. Driving across Europe is like driving on many fragmented, narrow road networks.
  - teknopaul 5y ago
    [citation needed] Europe has a network of motorways. Last mile is a different story, probably the whole story.
simonh 5y ago
I'm surprised the article doesn't mention ferries. Many routes in Europe can involve sea transport, particularly UK-Europe, UK-Ireland, Denmark-Norway/Sweden, to islands like Scisily, Corsica and Sardinia. This gives the compactness of the cab-over design a big advantage here.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Often the cabs don't go on the ferries. They drop the trailer at the dock, a separate crew driving yard tractors loads the trailers onto the ferry, and they get unloaded on the other side, where another cab picks them up to continue. This can be more efficient as you don't need space on the ferries for the cabs, and you don't have dozens of drivers waiting around for the ferry to arrive. The yard drivers at the dock are very skilled at quickly getting the trailers on and off the boat, while road drivers would take a lot more time with these manouvers.
  - simonh 5y ago
    This is true for a lot of goods, but if you go on passenger ferries you'll still see tons of commercial trucks streaming in and out of the port. For time sensitive deliveries, like perishable goods, they often need to avoid the delays from handling containers. If anyone remembers Norbert Dentresangle, an iconic french transport company that got re-flagged a few years ago, you'd see their trucks streaming in and out of Dover and on UK motorways all the time.
jenkstom 5y ago
I work for John Christner Trucking. We made it (almost, sorta) to the front page of Hacker News!
devoutsalsa 5y ago
A few months ago I filmed the long lines of trucks in Georgia (the country) waiting to cross the Russian border. Here's lots of Euro-style trucks if you're interested. https://www.instagram.com/p/CUIvO1fIfFV/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CUIvO1fIfFV/
ajmurmann 5y ago
This is what the article should have been: > Maximum length of a truck with a semi-trailer in Europe is 18.75 meters. Some countries have some exceptions, but generally that is the rule. In order to use the maximum of this length for the cargo the tractor unit has to be as short as possible. The best way to achieve that is to mount the cabin over the engine. That's it. Headline with a question and that one paragraph. This article to me is an example of why articles on the modern web are bad. All the rest is there to keep you on the page longer and get better SEO.
- efficax 5y ago
  It's not likely that Europe would move to traditional cab trucks if they relaxed the length rules since they still have to deal with the tighter road and parking conditions of European infrastructure
  - ajmurmann 5y ago
    Given the regulation prevents this counterfactual from being tested at all, this is really just speculation.
  - was_a_dev 5y ago
    European cabs are traditional. At least in Europe
  - Spooky23 5y ago
    Depends on what drives the requirements. The cabin over engine design is probably a bigger PITA to service. If that adds $, people would move away from it. The other thing to consider is driving distance and how it drives design. I would imagine the count of trucks that need sleeper compartments is much higher in the United States, and adopting a design that keeps parts more consistent for sleeper cabin and non-sleeper models probably has manufacturing benefits.
    - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
      >The cabin over engine design is probably a bigger PITA to service not really, the whole cabin lifts up: https://i.imgur.com/pqXW1YH.jpg https://i.imgur.com/pqXW1YH.jpg
abfan1127 5y ago
why do European trailers have 3 axles instead of 2?
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  I have wondered the same thing. My guess is that they use three axles with 6 tires, whereas the common North American trailer has two axles with 8 tires. The axles are mounted on a sled so they can be moved forward or backwards depending on the trailer weight to achieve the required weight distribution. Euro trailers appear to be shorter and probably carry lighter loads, so they need fewer tires and maybe do not need to be adjustable. But not really sure.
  - masklinn 5y ago
    > and probably carry lighter loads The EU standard is 40 tonnes (88000 lbs), usually in 2/3 or 3/2 axle combinations (2/3 usually includes a lifting axle). Some countries have higher limits e.g. Finland allows up to 76t with special permits
davidw 5y ago
I've always been curious what the live-in cabs are like in those big US rigs. Anyone got a good article?
- drewrv 5y ago
  I don't know a good article, but for some reason I was curious at one point and discovered the marketing pages for various big rigs. Marketing materials presumably showcase more flashy features and higher trim levels. Also the /r/Truckers/ subreddit has users post their setup sometimes. But usually those are either "look what I was able to cook" or "check out my gaming setup". https://www.peterbilt.com/trucks/highway/model-579 https://www.peterbilt.com/trucks/highway/model-579 https://www.volvotrucks.us/trucks/vnl/interior/ https://www.volvotrucks.us/trucks/vnl/interior/ https://www.macktrucks.com/trucks/anthem/features/ https://www.macktrucks.com/trucks/anthem/features/
digisign 5y ago
One of my favorite shows as a kid was "B. J. and the Bear" about a trucker and his chimpanzee oddly (now that I think of it) named Bear: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bj+mccay+bear&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bj+mccay+bear&ia=web Yes, the truck is cab-on-top as well. :-D Seems like the engine forward design could be made safer with the ubiquitous vehicle cameras of today, but neither the article nor the Volvo video make mention of them.
kipchak 5y ago
Anecdotally from playing Euro Truck Simulator, shorter trucks are also helpful in German zipper merge lanes, which are quite a bit smaller than typical US merge lanes. This article has a pretty good photo. https://www.ozy.com/the-new-and-the-next/german-roads-are-smarter-than-yours/60839/ https://www.ozy.com/the-new-and-the-next/german-roads-are-sm...
smm11 5y ago
Where I live, the only requirement in a semi truck is an area to store large volumes of meth.
rootusrootus 5y ago
I see cabover trucks (or at least trucks with snubby little noses) all the time in the US, in the city. I only occasionally see a traditional tractor trailer anywhere other than major roads and highways, because they're a great big PITA to maneuver. I assume that they have some significant advantages on the freeway, or they wouldn't remain popular for that.
Aardwolf 5y ago
US trucks have a more ornate design, while European ones are blockier I find this very similar to US vs EU fridges: US ones are metallic, rounded and bulky, European ones are, in new kitchens, integrated behind cabinet doors that look the same as the other cabinets, a more minimalist design. But then why does software/apps from the US look so minimalist like the European fridges?
- fleddr 5y ago
  Johny Ive did it.
mcguire 5y ago
Geeze. You have to go all the way to the bottom to find the answer. "Maximum length of a truck with a semi-trailer in Europe is 18.75 meters. Some countries have some exceptions, but generally that is the rule. In order to use the maximum of this length for the cargo the tractor unit has to be as short as possible. The best way to achieve that is to mount the cabin over the engine." Cab-overs have no other advantages, and everything else the article talks about is a side-effect of the length limit.
- 762236 5y ago
  The funny part is when you go to the 4th photo down and look into the passenger-side window. Got to wonder whether the author did that on purpose, or didn't notice.
- zardo 5y ago
  > Cab-overs have no other advantages That's not true. Lower overall length is an advantage for maneuvering in city streets and parking lots, which is why you see medium duty COE vehicles (mostly trucks but semi-tractors as well) in some parts of the US making local deliveries. It also provides a visibility advantage that reduces the accident rate.
  - aeharding 5y ago
    However the US still has relatively huge trucks delivering and navigating our urban environments that have many pedestrians and bicyclists. It's really frustrating how the US has too many urban streets designed for accommodating oversized trucks. It's really dangerous because the side affect of accommodating huge trucks is high speeds of passenger vehicles. https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/design-controls/design-vehicle/ https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/desi...
- Closi 5y ago
  > Cab-overs have no other advantages, and everything else the article talks about is a side-effect of the length limit. There are definitely other advantages, such as that cabovers can generally navigate into tighter spots because of it's tighter turning radius. Yard space is usually very limited and roads more narrow and windy than America, so this is definitely a benefit. I've seen some crazy tight turns on some unreasonably tiny country roads here in the UK that I can't imagine could be done with a vehicle 2 meters longer.
kristo 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
slackfan 5y ago
both designs are equally good a blocking road.
tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
Answer to the question in the title, hidden deep inside the article: Length limits. "Maximum length of a truck with a semi-trailer in Europe is 18.75 meters." so length is at a premium that cannot be outweighed by the other benefits of the "classic" US style design. Higher speeds and bigger roads are other reasons to have the US truck in the US but not Europe (among many other advantages of the design) but the stated fact that "European style" trucks were much more common in the US when the US still had length limits indicates that the length limit is the deciding factor.
mastazi 5y ago
> Finally, roads in US and Europe are very different as well. Cities in US have wide streets and interstate highways are very straight and wide. In Europe trucks have to deal with narrow streets, winding country roads and cramped parking spaces. Most comments in this thread are underestimating this point. I grew up in Italy (where virtually all trucks are cabover), and I now live in Australia (where conventional cabs are common). The road conditions are completely different. Can you imagine a conventional driving through Florence? Obviously it wouldn't be ideal.
- ajmurmann 5y ago
  There are also lots of European trucks that can't drive everywhere in Florence. There were roads in Borgia, Spain my navigation system sent me down in a rented passenger car where I literally want able to turn because it was too narrow. Till the regulation is gone, everything else is just speculation about what would happen without it.
Robotbeat 5y ago
I think the efficiency impact is important over the highway. There’s a pretty big drag difference. Drag being about half of the force needed for the engine to overcome at highways speeds in the US. Especially if you’re already making efforts to reduce rolling resistance, drag can make a significant impact on the range of electric Semis (plus of course the operating costs and time to recharge and cost and lifetime of the battery). These things are easy to overlook if you’re just using diesel, but they matter a lot for electric. A cab-over semi might have a combined drag coefficient of over 0.7, whereas the Tesla Semi is around 0.35. So the 500 mile range of the Tesla Semi may be just 375 miles if using a conventional European cab-over design. That reduces the life of the battery as well, increases the proportion of the time spent charging, the cost per mile to charge, etc. And it can’t just be compensated with a bigger battery, either, because the vehicle is already near or at the weight limit. Drag actually matters.
twic 5y ago
It's perhaps notable that Optimus Prime's vehicle mode is traditionally a cab-over tractor, but in the films, he's conventional-cab. I assume that reflects Japanese and American understanding of what lorries look like. I wonder if American kids who had the toys were baffled by his strange appearance.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  When Optimus Prime came out 38 years ago, cab over tractor was much more common. BJ and the Bear, a popular (well, as I remember) early 80s TV show, had the protagonist in such a truck: https://www.gobytrucknews.com/b-j-and-the-bear-truck-still-a-hit/123 https://www.gobytrucknews.com/b-j-and-the-bear-truck-still-a...
oblio 5y ago
I find it funny that in US English we've reached a point where the big trucks are called "semi" (as in, "half") and the pick-up trucks, which are the smallest trucks you can make, are simply called "trucks".
Camillo 5y ago
> This is what conventional cab trucks look like – these are much more common in US, Australia and elsewhere outside Europe. Where, exactly? Do an image search for "China truck" or "Japan truck", and they're cab-over-engine.
williamsmj 5y ago
Length restrictions are generally looser in the US, but there's one very notable exception: 53' trailers may pass through NYC to Long Island on a couple of highways, but may not make pickups or deliveries anywhere in NYC https://www.dot.ny.gov/about-nysdot/faq/are-53-foot-long-trailers-allowed-in-nyc https://www.dot.ny.gov/about-nysdot/faq/are-53-foot-long-tra.... 53' trailers are pretty much the standard large trailer in the US. They are recognizable because they have a little "53" written on the side. Don't bother reporting it to the NYPD if you see one though. They pretty much refuse to enforce laws meant to make NYC safer for its non-driving residents.
- notch656a 5y ago
  Lol do you know how unsafe it would be for 'non-driving' residents if trailers can't unload food and necessary items to NYC? Non-driving residents depend on semi as much or more than anyone, since non-drivers rarely have the means to transport heavy loads without driving (some may have a team of pack dogs or horses I suppose). >They pretty much refuse to enforce laws meant to make NYC [undeliverable by standard trailers] Good.
  - bobbylarrybobby 5y ago
    Or, you know, they could use shorter trucks. What a concept. It's nice of you to opine on how traffic enforcement should happen in a place you (clearly) don't live. The NYPD choose not to enforce traffic laws across the board, and it leads to some dire consequences. In any case, whether or not longer trucks would be better for New York, the decision has already been made that they're not allowed. It's not up to the NYPD to second guess the law.
    - notch656a 5y ago
      Do you live in the entire city of NYC? Or do you just like opining on what the entire rest of the boroughs should do? How practical do you really think it is for the entire country to make special considerations for some special snowflakes that can't handle the standard trailer everyone else uses? If you don't like the long trailers, you're free to choose to not shop at grocery stores and other places that may be using them. Free market and all, maybe someone can open up a store than only unloads cargo from short trailers, we can experiment on what is more successful. If the NYPD enforced (were somehow able to) every single law at every moment to everyone, New Yorkers would be crying to go back to discretionary enforcement in no time.
wraptile 5y ago
Isn't field of view much better in the European version? I've only been a passanger in an EU semi and I was itching to drive it, because just how high you were and how much you could see! It reminded me of the Homer's car from the Simpsons - ugly but you can't help but wonder how pleasant it would be to operate.
quickthrower2 5y ago
I always wondered this too. Australia seems to have the American style truck too. I find them a bit more fun and less “serious looking” than the European ones.
da39a3ee 5y ago
I think European lorry drivers mostly sleep in the beds above the driving area no? Where do US truck drivers sleep?
ehnto 5y ago
We have a mix here in Australia, which makes sense I think. I wonder if the long nose form factor gives any benfits for road trains. Long, long distance and big power requirements often on dirt roads. Perhaps you get some stability and comfort benefits. Moreso I think you just don't have to figure out how to stuff all that power in a tight form factor, which is just easier.
prometheus76 5y ago
Another significant advantage to the conventional design over cabover designs is the heat issue. The heat coming off the engine is significant, and if you can move the cab behind the engine instead of over it, it's much easier to keep the cabin cool in the summer. Large parts of the US have significantly hotter summers than those found in Europe, so this is a big issue for much of the US.

289 points by ushakov 5y ago

https://www.roadprobrands.com/blog-posts/what-happened-to-cabovers https://www.roadprobrands.com/blog-posts/what-happened-to-ca...

pier25 5y ago

Do European trucks make less noise too? I'm from Spain but moved to Mexico 13 years ago. Here it's somewhat common to hear truck noises like when doing engine braking. I don't recall ever hearing that in Spain.

consp 5y ago
Maybe automatic vs manual gearboxes?
bsedlm 5y ago
As far as I'm aware, in the mexican transport industry is a common practice to overload the trucks as much as possible. This is so widespread that any company which doesn't do it is likely less profitable than all the rest which do overload hence they have to overload to be competitive. I like to frame this in terms of an overruling pragmatism in mexican culture, as long as the truck still goes everything is just fine. I suppose overloaded trucks (under more stress) are louder.
- xenonite 5y ago
  It would be interesting to factor in the higher maintenance costs, including road maintenance.
mschuster91 5y ago
Europe has strict noise regulations that even regular trucks have a hard time meeting, much less a jake brake [1]. In the US these are no problem since such large swaths of the country are unpopulated, but here in Europe you got small villages next to highways all the time. Here, the more expensive hydraulic retarders are the most common brakes (additional to the standard brakes on the wheels, of course). [1]: https://www.verkehrsrundschau.de/nachrichten/nfz-fuhrpark/neue-laermgrenzwerte-sind-eine-herausforderung-fuer-lkw-hersteller-3001163 https://www.verkehrsrundschau.de/nachrichten/nfz-fuhrpark/ne...
- nixass 5y ago
  Do truck in Europe even use jake brake? I cannot remember I've ever heard one, while in few days in the USA/CA I've heard one every single day on highway
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    It isn't even allowed to put jake brakes on trucks here, the model would not be certified as the noise emission limits have to be adhered at all times during the operation of the vehicle.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      Is that true, or just unmuffled jake brakes? It's pretty common in the US for unmuffled jake brakes to be prohibited in populated areas.
- crottypeter 5y ago
  Another source on the "Jake brake" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_release_engine_brake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_release_engine_bra...
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    And to quote the important part: "Most diesel engines do not have a throttle body, so regardless of throttle setting a full charge of air is always drawn into the cylinders (excluding the valve fitted to certain diesels, such as fire appliances and generators on oil and gas platforms, to prevent diesel engine runaway). Compressed air generated during the compression stroke acts as an air spring to push the piston back down. As such, even with fuel supply cut off and no power strokes taking place, a portion of the energy absorbed by the compression stroke within each cylinder is returned to the crankshaft. This results in very little engine braking being applied to the vehicle. The typical compression brake consists of a hydraulic system using engine oil which transfers the motion of the fuel injector rocker arm to the engine's exhaust valve(s). When activated, the exhaust valve opens very briefly near the engine's top dead center, and releases the compressed air in the cylinder so that the energy is not returned to the crankshaft. If used properly, a compression release brake can assist a vehicle to maintain or even reduce speed with minimal use of the service brakes. The power of this type can be around the same as the engine power." Basically, jake brakes vent the compressed air in the cylinders at the top of the cycle.
hunterb123 5y ago
Most of the time engine braking is banned within US city limits, there are signs posted outside of towns "No engine braking".
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  It varies by region, I'm sure, but every sign I've ever seen prohibiting engine braking has been specific that only unmuffled engine braking is prohibited.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    No they aren't allowed whether they are muffled or not if it says "no engine breaking".
ysangkok 5y ago
Seems like Mexicans are not punished for taking off the muffler or generally just using 'unsafe' vehicles.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  Seems like Mexicans are not punished for taking off the muffler or generally just using 'unsafe' vehicles. When I visit Juarez, I'm always surprised to see all of the used school buses that are no longer considered road-worthy in America that area used for all kinds of things. Very often they leave the names of the American schools on the side.

blipvert 5y ago

“I’ve got a semi” means something very different to right-pondians.

dmitriid 5y ago

Finally! Someone who asked and explored this question! I had this same question for years :)

Kon-Peki 5y ago
Agreed :) But I'm not quite sure I'm satisfied that this explains why they are so different. It is hard for me to believe that American semi-trucks are more fuel efficient than European ones (fuel is so much more expensive in Europe!), but this article seems to imply that they are.
- goodcanadian 5y ago
  Aerodynamic efficiency matters much more in North America as average speeds are much higher over much longer distances. Wind resistance increases with the square of speed, so it is entirely possible that American trucks are burning more fuel per mile in spite of being more aerodynamic.
- dharmab 5y ago
  Cab over is a less aerodynamic shape (it's essentially a box). Conventional designs allow more aero features.
  - kergonath 5y ago
    > Conventional designs allow more aero features. “Conventional” is such a poor label. Convention depends on the context. The conventional form factor here is cab over.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      Like when Americans talk about a 'full size' car they mean an over-size one in our perspective.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      Conventional in terms of trucks overall, cabover did not come first for trucks, nor is it a conventional design. It's not uncommon for non-cabover to be referred to as conventional. GP is using the correct terminology. https://www.innomotivesolutions.com/about/blog/item/cab-over-engine-vs-conventional-truck-which-do-you-prefer https://www.innomotivesolutions.com/about/blog/item/cab-over... https://www.smart-trucking.com/cabovers-make-a-comeback/ https://www.smart-trucking.com/cabovers-make-a-comeback/ https://powertorque.com.au/cabover-vs-conventional-and-euro-vs-usa/ https://powertorque.com.au/cabover-vs-conventional-and-euro-...

exabrial 5y ago

The better question is why are Russian trucks and their drivers so different: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_OcK0P9WOs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_OcK0P9WOs

drpgq 5y ago
So Optimus Prime was more the European style
- causi 5y ago
  Cab-over trucks were more common in the US in the past.
  - reaperducer 5y ago
    Cab-over trucks were more common in the US in the past. I remember this, too. I had toy trucks when I was a kid and they were all the snub-nose design. Interestingly, school buses seem to have gone the opposite way. When I was a kid, they had the long nose, but now most that I see are snub-nosed. Does anyone know the term for those little "hopper" trucks that are used at ports and large post offices and such? The ones where the cab of the tractor trailer only exists on the left or right side of the tractor? I've heard that since they don't travel on public roads that they aren't subjected to environmental or safety rules.
    - throwawayboise 5y ago
      Yard tractors or terminal tractors. Sometimes called "yard dogs"
Tempest1981 5y ago
Check out the series "Long Way Round" if you have access. It has a Kamaz -- impressive to see the rivers it can cross. https://bestride.com/news/the-kamaz-that-saved-ewan-mcgregor-and-charlie-boorman-the-long-way-round-has-been-abandoned https://bestride.com/news/the-kamaz-that-saved-ewan-mcgregor...

sschueller 5y ago

It's definitely primarily because of the space on the streets. I would not want to try to maneuver a American Semi through Europe.

frosted-flakes 5y ago
The article states that it's because of length restrictions. European leangth restrictions include the truck, American restrictions don't.
- flyingfences 5y ago
  Presumably, though, the length restrictions are due, at least in large part, to [lack of] available space on the streets.
- the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
  The European length restrictions don't exist because someone hates long trucks but because city and road planers don't need to account for longer trucks than that. This is especially important because of parking. In the EU there are maximum driving hours for truckers which means they often need to take rests and the infrastructure needs to support that.
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    > In the EU there are maximum driving hours for truckers which means they often need to take rests and the infrastructure needs to support that. The same is true in the USA.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
      Specifically: - 14 hour days, maximum - high tolerance of pulled over "resting" trucks - conventional truck designs with builtin bedrooms - state-run and private truck stops along most highways

chayesfss 5y ago

Last point is a big one, geography of roads traveled is vastly different

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
In general, true. However, try driving the spectacularly scenic US550 road through the San Juans in southern Colorado, and note the completely regular semi-trucks negotiating this insane mountain road. I am sure this is not the only example.

blunte 5y ago

What I find surprising is how the majority of semis in Netherlands appear to be very new and presumably in good condition. In Texas, by contrast, few appear to be new and well maintained, while many look quite heavily used. The trailers are even worse. Considering how expensive those things are, who is affording the new trucks in NL? Is it because they are company owned instead of individual (owner-operator)? Where do the worn out NL semis go?

Closi 5y ago
As well as the other responses, it is very common to lease your fleet in Europe, particularly for 3PL's who will lease the fleet over the duration of their contracts. Most transport is done by 3PL's who will lease the trucks and hire the drivers.
sumtechguy 5y ago
You will find that wildly varies in the US too. For example Walmart has very nice trucks. But some random LTL probably has used equipment that is decades old. It comes down to the fact that most of this has a very thin margin. Large private company fleets tend to be newer. Small general delivery tend to be older.
- intpx 5y ago
  and all of the owner/operators who specifically want pre year 2000 rigs so they don't have to have an ELD.
orangepurple 5y ago
> Where do the worn out NL semis go? African countries
leto_ii 5y ago
> Where do the worn out NL semis go? Eastern Europe, if I had to guess. I can't say specifically about semis, but in my home country of Romania I've seen quite a lot of Dutch clunker vans/small trucks roaming the streets (you can tell they're Dutch because they still have some of the original branding decals of the companies that used to own them).

jbkiv 5y ago

I remember when Mercedes Benz bought Freightliner, the major US truck manufacturer,in the 80s. The Mercedes Benz engineeers were astonished to see how UN-sophisticated the engineering of Freightliner trucks was. Example: no assisted steering!!! That choice was justified as more macho. I was told that assisted steering was not manly enough...

kfarr 5y ago
There can be value in simplicity - fewer things to break and easier to repair.
- CountSessine 5y ago
  Exactly. The irony of Mercedes-Benz engineers marveling at how unsophisticated a simply-engineered vehicle is brought a smile to my face. Most owner-operator truck drivers want to be able to fix and maintain their trucks on their own, not bring the truck into the dealer every 3 months like some temperamental S-class. Although I guess Mercedes was still pretty reliable back in the 80's.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    MB trucks are an entirely different kettle of fish than the consumer and light transport stuff. It all changes above the 3500 kg mark.
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      In the US their Sprinters compare to the competition about the same way an S-class compares to a Camry. In both cases it's generally considered ill-advised to own it into old age. I wouldn't call that "entirely different"
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        Sprinters routinely clock half a million K. You need to maintain them but that goes for all vehicles. And they are still below that 3500 kg limit. It really starts at Atego: https://www.mercedes-benz-trucks.com/nl_NL/models/atego-construction.html https://www.mercedes-benz-trucks.com/nl_NL/models/atego-cons...

YPPH 5y ago

In Australia I've found the European style far more common, contrary what is suggested in the article. While we're on the topic of trucks, I've always had this pointless desire to get a non-synchronous transmission truck driver's licence. I just think it'd be fun learning to drive an 18 speed crash box with double clutching and clutch brakes - something I imagine will soon be a thing of the past. Regrettably, there's no real reason for me to get it. For now, the rational part of my brain is keeping this in check.

jbothma 5y ago
The whole article seems full of conjecture and generalisation. A big example: > Another advantage of a conventional cab design is that the truck can be more economical. Surely they usually pull heavier loads, but if there were two trucks, one a cab-over and another one a conventional cab design, and they had the same powertrain and the same cargo, the conventional cab truck would most likely use less fuel. Of course, that is just in theory – in reality there are too many factors to consider. I don't know... power, load and fuel economy is the kind of data that's extremely available about motor vehicles... this is something we can't figure out? Or were they just writing hearsay to push content and get clicks? ("Subscribe to our facebook. Loads of content coming soon!")
- enragedcacti 5y ago
  > Or were they just writing hearsay to push content and get clicks? I think this is a very uncharitable interpretation. It has been decades in the US and Canada since cab overs fell out of style and thus you can't buy ones that take the same trade-offs as your average conventional truck. Comparing trucks designed for completely different regulatory, geographical, and practical constraints isn't going to net something useful so we have to make estimated guesses. It seems like it would be similar to comparing the fuel economy of an an unladen F-150 with an unladen F-350; They might do similar things but in practice there are so many capability trade-offs that it isn't a particularly interesting thing to do. As they said: > that is just in theory – in reality there are too many factors to consider.
- zardo 5y ago

jack_riminton 5y ago

I've often wondered why European trucks don't have some sort of mechanism to make them more aerodynamic when they're on the highways i.e. an inflatable nose. The boxy design must cost a fortune in fuel

noja 5y ago
You have often wondered why trucks do not come with inflatable noses?
- jack_riminton 5y ago
  yes
SkyPuncher 5y ago
From my understanding, the drag caused by the flat back of the trailer causing a vacuum is much more impactful than the front shape. I believe a "pillow" of air kind of builds up in the front. It also looks like truck in EU are limited to 55mph. When I tow our trailer (just with a normal vehicle), there's minimal difference between fuel economy between 45 and 60. Significant drops come into play at higher speeds.
- colechristensen 5y ago
  Drag is proportional to the square of speed
  - SkyPuncher 5y ago
    Ah. Yes! I forget about this! In vehicles, there's a lot of additional, interesting factors at play - like engine efficiency.
    - colechristensen 5y ago
      Yes there will be many nonlinear factors which combine to a maximum efficiency speed, which can, to an extent, be chosen by design.

giorgioz 5y ago

I was interested in knowing the price of trucks and did some research: The Volvo VNL 2021 costs around 174.000$ That's the new model shown in the youtube video in the article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nY7Xfu47vw&feature=emb_logo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nY7Xfu47vw&feature=emb_logo Given semi-trucks are so expensive and heavely used I wonder why more companies don't focus autonomous vehicles for semi-trucks rather than robotaxis.

skyde 5y ago
maybe because its easier to persuade car owner to buy self-driving car.
Heliosmaster 5y ago
Or rail, which is vastly more efficient than trucks (which then could be used only for last-mile)
- ApolloFortyNine 5y ago
  The US has more rail than any other country in the world. [1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_rail_transport_network_size https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_rail_tr...
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    miles of track per square mile, or alternatively, miles of track per square mile of population above N-per-unit-area would be a much more meaningful statistic.
    - ApolloFortyNine 5y ago
      I'm not sure population is too important here, that stat would just make dense countries look 'better'. In reality if you want to ship something from California to DC by Rail, it really doesn't matter that 95% of those 3000 miles have almost no one living nearby. We're talking about Semi Trucks here, so clearly this conversation is in regards to cargo.

dukeofdoom 5y ago

I was a little curious if there was a difference in honking power. Now that it became political to honk at the world.

Hbruz0 5y ago

Ugh, one of those articles that paraphrases its title 5 times before giving a very short answer...

SamBam 5y ago
How can I make a 300 word article into an 800 word article? Actually, I think I just saw a GPT-3 application that allowed you to "lengthen" text.
- Hokusai 5y ago
  > Actually, I think I just saw a GPT-3 application that allowed you to "lengthen" text. And a browser extension that shrinks it. And the AI wars continue.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

JPKab 5y ago

When I worked construction in my early 20s, I frequently had to drive various large trucks. I FUCKING LOVE the "cab over engine" design. The heightened visibility is everything. My favorite truck was an Isuzu model (don't remember which) that was as elegant as it could possibly be for driving on narrow mountain roads in southern Appalachia (I covered an area surrounding the Smokey Mountains in TN/NC).

mig39 5y ago
Those Isuzu trucks are still being made, and are popular in Australia, South Africa, etc. Hit Google Images with "Isuzu Truck" for examples.

bluedino 5y ago

Cab-over designs are used for things like garbage trucks. When I worked in transportation, people said they faded away because of crash-protection. My favorite cab-over semi is from the minibike chase scene in Terminator 2

IHLayman 5y ago

“That is also why Australian highways feature well-known road trains – extremely long distances and straight roads allow semi-trucks to pull up to four trailers.” Driving around double-trailers in Indiana always made me anxious, so I had to see this unnerving statement in its reality, and I found this article [0] that talks about Australian road trains. Evidently they are used on single lane roads in the Outback, which makes sense. But, I am still wondering, as there must be some warehouse to transition to single-trailer loads or else they wouldn’t be able to safely do last-mile delivery? [0]: https://www.smart-trucking.com/australian-road-trains/ https://www.smart-trucking.com/australian-road-trains/

bombcar 5y ago
You just park the truck and disconnect the extra trailers, usually there's a lot on the outskirts of town where the local short-haul trucks will take the trailers to their final destination.
reaperducer 5y ago
Driving around double-trailers in Indiana always made me anxious A bunch of American states permit triple trailers. Each individual trailer is a little shorter, but seeing all three going around a corner is a bit unnerving. Especially if they're heavy-load trailers that haul stuff like gravel or ore, because those are much longer to spread the weight out.

unethical_ban 5y ago

>In Europe Semi-trucks are limited to 90 km/h Wow! That's slower than almost every freeway speed limit in the United States, barring some urban spots.

seszett 5y ago
That's also slower than every freeway speed limit in Europe for cars. Trucks just have a lower speed limit. They are also limited to 80 km/h where cars are limited to 90 km/h.
- masklinn 5y ago
  IIRC trucks also get special speed limits (usually to 80 or 70) on some difficult highway spots, they also often et additional semi-dedicated “slow vehicle” lanes on climbs.
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  Interesting. I think parts of the US had truck speed limits, but we no longer have them. Same with night-time speed limits.
fomine3 5y ago
Trucks (almost all cabover) are limited to 80km/h in Japan, even in highway limited to 120km/h for cars.

smhg 5y ago

If others are wondering what a road train looks like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_train https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_train

rahoulb 5y ago

I'd never heard of a "semi-truck". I've always known of them as "artics" - short for articulated. Source: my childhood best friend's dad was a truck driver (not artic though) and a day out in the lorry was one of the best things to do in the school holidays. EDIT: I notice the linked article "why are they called semis" actually calls them articulated.

TylerE 5y ago
Basically, they're semi trucks because they pull semi trailers... which are trailers with rear axles only

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

TL;DR overall length restrictions. The US had cab-overs too back when we had length restrictions but the marginally more expensive operating cost and greatly reduced operator comfort resulted in conventional trucks taking over once those restrictions were lifted. Applications where length matters a lot still use cabovers.

tgtweak 5y ago

Ford used to make some cab-over semi trucks that were very popular in the US during the 80's and early 90's and resembled very closely the European designs of today. I think it's pretty obvious and comes down to a few things: * European trucks typically run shorter hauls, and do not require a bunk in the cab as often as multi-day cross-country runs. * European Semi's need to accommodate all countries' roads and parking lots. This means the much wider range of nonstandard roads, docks, fueling stations and parking lots extends much farther towards the "small" side. Tight streets and parking lots - making it necessary for the truck to be shorter for tighter turns and parking compatibility. * It has been proven that a cab-forward design is safer for avoiding accidents directly in front of the vehicles, something that is more focused on in the EU. * The least obvious but possibly the most relevant reason why it remains: Having and ingraining differing standards makes it harder for a single competitor to play into the both markets. EU is largely locked down by EU manufacturers since any US manufacturers would have to significantly change their design and production to sell there. The fuel economy point seems to be a distant consideration since the majority of drag economy comes from the trailer and not the tractor.

martyvis 5y ago
This Tesla was pushed for half a mile seemingly oblivious to the driver of this conventional cab semi. https://youtu.be/A5GePY23FxI https://youtu.be/A5GePY23FxI
brainwipe 5y ago
Although runs appear shorter in the EU, they're still multi-day. Lisbon to Edinburg is a 2000 mile drive. Most drivers kip in their cabs, not at home. IMO it's entirely down to the road networks. Driving across the US is like driving across one very broad road network. Driving across Europe is like driving on many fragmented, narrow road networks.
- teknopaul 5y ago
  [citation needed] Europe has a network of motorways. Last mile is a different story, probably the whole story.

simonh 5y ago

I'm surprised the article doesn't mention ferries. Many routes in Europe can involve sea transport, particularly UK-Europe, UK-Ireland, Denmark-Norway/Sweden, to islands like Scisily, Corsica and Sardinia. This gives the compactness of the cab-over design a big advantage here.

throwawayboise 5y ago
Often the cabs don't go on the ferries. They drop the trailer at the dock, a separate crew driving yard tractors loads the trailers onto the ferry, and they get unloaded on the other side, where another cab picks them up to continue. This can be more efficient as you don't need space on the ferries for the cabs, and you don't have dozens of drivers waiting around for the ferry to arrive. The yard drivers at the dock are very skilled at quickly getting the trailers on and off the boat, while road drivers would take a lot more time with these manouvers.
- simonh 5y ago
  This is true for a lot of goods, but if you go on passenger ferries you'll still see tons of commercial trucks streaming in and out of the port. For time sensitive deliveries, like perishable goods, they often need to avoid the delays from handling containers. If anyone remembers Norbert Dentresangle, an iconic french transport company that got re-flagged a few years ago, you'd see their trucks streaming in and out of Dover and on UK motorways all the time.

jenkstom 5y ago

I work for John Christner Trucking. We made it (almost, sorta) to the front page of Hacker News!

devoutsalsa 5y ago

A few months ago I filmed the long lines of trucks in Georgia (the country) waiting to cross the Russian border. Here's lots of Euro-style trucks if you're interested. https://www.instagram.com/p/CUIvO1fIfFV/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CUIvO1fIfFV/

ajmurmann 5y ago

This is what the article should have been: > Maximum length of a truck with a semi-trailer in Europe is 18.75 meters. Some countries have some exceptions, but generally that is the rule. In order to use the maximum of this length for the cargo the tractor unit has to be as short as possible. The best way to achieve that is to mount the cabin over the engine. That's it. Headline with a question and that one paragraph. This article to me is an example of why articles on the modern web are bad. All the rest is there to keep you on the page longer and get better SEO.

efficax 5y ago
It's not likely that Europe would move to traditional cab trucks if they relaxed the length rules since they still have to deal with the tighter road and parking conditions of European infrastructure
- ajmurmann 5y ago
  Given the regulation prevents this counterfactual from being tested at all, this is really just speculation.
- was_a_dev 5y ago
  European cabs are traditional. At least in Europe
- Spooky23 5y ago
  Depends on what drives the requirements. The cabin over engine design is probably a bigger PITA to service. If that adds $, people would move away from it. The other thing to consider is driving distance and how it drives design. I would imagine the count of trucks that need sleeper compartments is much higher in the United States, and adopting a design that keeps parts more consistent for sleeper cabin and non-sleeper models probably has manufacturing benefits.
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    >The cabin over engine design is probably a bigger PITA to service not really, the whole cabin lifts up: https://i.imgur.com/pqXW1YH.jpg https://i.imgur.com/pqXW1YH.jpg

abfan1127 5y ago

why do European trailers have 3 axles instead of 2?

throwawayboise 5y ago
I have wondered the same thing. My guess is that they use three axles with 6 tires, whereas the common North American trailer has two axles with 8 tires. The axles are mounted on a sled so they can be moved forward or backwards depending on the trailer weight to achieve the required weight distribution. Euro trailers appear to be shorter and probably carry lighter loads, so they need fewer tires and maybe do not need to be adjustable. But not really sure.
- masklinn 5y ago
  > and probably carry lighter loads The EU standard is 40 tonnes (88000 lbs), usually in 2/3 or 3/2 axle combinations (2/3 usually includes a lifting axle). Some countries have higher limits e.g. Finland allows up to 76t with special permits

davidw 5y ago

I've always been curious what the live-in cabs are like in those big US rigs. Anyone got a good article?

drewrv 5y ago
I don't know a good article, but for some reason I was curious at one point and discovered the marketing pages for various big rigs. Marketing materials presumably showcase more flashy features and higher trim levels. Also the /r/Truckers/ subreddit has users post their setup sometimes. But usually those are either "look what I was able to cook" or "check out my gaming setup". https://www.peterbilt.com/trucks/highway/model-579 https://www.peterbilt.com/trucks/highway/model-579 https://www.volvotrucks.us/trucks/vnl/interior/ https://www.volvotrucks.us/trucks/vnl/interior/ https://www.macktrucks.com/trucks/anthem/features/ https://www.macktrucks.com/trucks/anthem/features/

digisign 5y ago

One of my favorite shows as a kid was "B. J. and the Bear" about a trucker and his chimpanzee oddly (now that I think of it) named Bear: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bj+mccay+bear&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bj+mccay+bear&ia=web Yes, the truck is cab-on-top as well. :-D Seems like the engine forward design could be made safer with the ubiquitous vehicle cameras of today, but neither the article nor the Volvo video make mention of them.

kipchak 5y ago

Anecdotally from playing Euro Truck Simulator, shorter trucks are also helpful in German zipper merge lanes, which are quite a bit smaller than typical US merge lanes. This article has a pretty good photo. https://www.ozy.com/the-new-and-the-next/german-roads-are-smarter-than-yours/60839/ https://www.ozy.com/the-new-and-the-next/german-roads-are-sm...

smm11 5y ago

Where I live, the only requirement in a semi truck is an area to store large volumes of meth.

rootusrootus 5y ago

I see cabover trucks (or at least trucks with snubby little noses) all the time in the US, in the city. I only occasionally see a traditional tractor trailer anywhere other than major roads and highways, because they're a great big PITA to maneuver. I assume that they have some significant advantages on the freeway, or they wouldn't remain popular for that.

Aardwolf 5y ago

US trucks have a more ornate design, while European ones are blockier I find this very similar to US vs EU fridges: US ones are metallic, rounded and bulky, European ones are, in new kitchens, integrated behind cabinet doors that look the same as the other cabinets, a more minimalist design. But then why does software/apps from the US look so minimalist like the European fridges?

fleddr 5y ago
Johny Ive did it.

mcguire 5y ago

Geeze. You have to go all the way to the bottom to find the answer. "Maximum length of a truck with a semi-trailer in Europe is 18.75 meters. Some countries have some exceptions, but generally that is the rule. In order to use the maximum of this length for the cargo the tractor unit has to be as short as possible. The best way to achieve that is to mount the cabin over the engine." Cab-overs have no other advantages, and everything else the article talks about is a side-effect of the length limit.

762236 5y ago
The funny part is when you go to the 4th photo down and look into the passenger-side window. Got to wonder whether the author did that on purpose, or didn't notice.
zardo 5y ago
> Cab-overs have no other advantages That's not true. Lower overall length is an advantage for maneuvering in city streets and parking lots, which is why you see medium duty COE vehicles (mostly trucks but semi-tractors as well) in some parts of the US making local deliveries. It also provides a visibility advantage that reduces the accident rate.
- aeharding 5y ago
  However the US still has relatively huge trucks delivering and navigating our urban environments that have many pedestrians and bicyclists. It's really frustrating how the US has too many urban streets designed for accommodating oversized trucks. It's really dangerous because the side affect of accommodating huge trucks is high speeds of passenger vehicles. https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/design-controls/design-vehicle/ https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/desi...
Closi 5y ago
> Cab-overs have no other advantages, and everything else the article talks about is a side-effect of the length limit. There are definitely other advantages, such as that cabovers can generally navigate into tighter spots because of it's tighter turning radius. Yard space is usually very limited and roads more narrow and windy than America, so this is definitely a benefit. I've seen some crazy tight turns on some unreasonably tiny country roads here in the UK that I can't imagine could be done with a vehicle 2 meters longer.

kristo 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

slackfan 5y ago

both designs are equally good a blocking road.

tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago

Answer to the question in the title, hidden deep inside the article: Length limits. "Maximum length of a truck with a semi-trailer in Europe is 18.75 meters." so length is at a premium that cannot be outweighed by the other benefits of the "classic" US style design. Higher speeds and bigger roads are other reasons to have the US truck in the US but not Europe (among many other advantages of the design) but the stated fact that "European style" trucks were much more common in the US when the US still had length limits indicates that the length limit is the deciding factor.

mastazi 5y ago

> Finally, roads in US and Europe are very different as well. Cities in US have wide streets and interstate highways are very straight and wide. In Europe trucks have to deal with narrow streets, winding country roads and cramped parking spaces. Most comments in this thread are underestimating this point. I grew up in Italy (where virtually all trucks are cabover), and I now live in Australia (where conventional cabs are common). The road conditions are completely different. Can you imagine a conventional driving through Florence? Obviously it wouldn't be ideal.

ajmurmann 5y ago
There are also lots of European trucks that can't drive everywhere in Florence. There were roads in Borgia, Spain my navigation system sent me down in a rented passenger car where I literally want able to turn because it was too narrow. Till the regulation is gone, everything else is just speculation about what would happen without it.

Robotbeat 5y ago

I think the efficiency impact is important over the highway. There’s a pretty big drag difference. Drag being about half of the force needed for the engine to overcome at highways speeds in the US. Especially if you’re already making efforts to reduce rolling resistance, drag can make a significant impact on the range of electric Semis (plus of course the operating costs and time to recharge and cost and lifetime of the battery). These things are easy to overlook if you’re just using diesel, but they matter a lot for electric. A cab-over semi might have a combined drag coefficient of over 0.7, whereas the Tesla Semi is around 0.35. So the 500 mile range of the Tesla Semi may be just 375 miles if using a conventional European cab-over design. That reduces the life of the battery as well, increases the proportion of the time spent charging, the cost per mile to charge, etc. And it can’t just be compensated with a bigger battery, either, because the vehicle is already near or at the weight limit. Drag actually matters.

twic 5y ago

It's perhaps notable that Optimus Prime's vehicle mode is traditionally a cab-over tractor, but in the films, he's conventional-cab. I assume that reflects Japanese and American understanding of what lorries look like. I wonder if American kids who had the toys were baffled by his strange appearance.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
When Optimus Prime came out 38 years ago, cab over tractor was much more common. BJ and the Bear, a popular (well, as I remember) early 80s TV show, had the protagonist in such a truck: https://www.gobytrucknews.com/b-j-and-the-bear-truck-still-a-hit/123 https://www.gobytrucknews.com/b-j-and-the-bear-truck-still-a...

oblio 5y ago

I find it funny that in US English we've reached a point where the big trucks are called "semi" (as in, "half") and the pick-up trucks, which are the smallest trucks you can make, are simply called "trucks".

Camillo 5y ago

> This is what conventional cab trucks look like – these are much more common in US, Australia and elsewhere outside Europe. Where, exactly? Do an image search for "China truck" or "Japan truck", and they're cab-over-engine.

williamsmj 5y ago

Length restrictions are generally looser in the US, but there's one very notable exception: 53' trailers may pass through NYC to Long Island on a couple of highways, but may not make pickups or deliveries anywhere in NYC https://www.dot.ny.gov/about-nysdot/faq/are-53-foot-long-trailers-allowed-in-nyc https://www.dot.ny.gov/about-nysdot/faq/are-53-foot-long-tra.... 53' trailers are pretty much the standard large trailer in the US. They are recognizable because they have a little "53" written on the side. Don't bother reporting it to the NYPD if you see one though. They pretty much refuse to enforce laws meant to make NYC safer for its non-driving residents.

notch656a 5y ago
Lol do you know how unsafe it would be for 'non-driving' residents if trailers can't unload food and necessary items to NYC? Non-driving residents depend on semi as much or more than anyone, since non-drivers rarely have the means to transport heavy loads without driving (some may have a team of pack dogs or horses I suppose). >They pretty much refuse to enforce laws meant to make NYC [undeliverable by standard trailers] Good.
- bobbylarrybobby 5y ago
  Or, you know, they could use shorter trucks. What a concept. It's nice of you to opine on how traffic enforcement should happen in a place you (clearly) don't live. The NYPD choose not to enforce traffic laws across the board, and it leads to some dire consequences. In any case, whether or not longer trucks would be better for New York, the decision has already been made that they're not allowed. It's not up to the NYPD to second guess the law.
  - notch656a 5y ago
    Do you live in the entire city of NYC? Or do you just like opining on what the entire rest of the boroughs should do? How practical do you really think it is for the entire country to make special considerations for some special snowflakes that can't handle the standard trailer everyone else uses? If you don't like the long trailers, you're free to choose to not shop at grocery stores and other places that may be using them. Free market and all, maybe someone can open up a store than only unloads cargo from short trailers, we can experiment on what is more successful. If the NYPD enforced (were somehow able to) every single law at every moment to everyone, New Yorkers would be crying to go back to discretionary enforcement in no time.

wraptile 5y ago

Isn't field of view much better in the European version? I've only been a passanger in an EU semi and I was itching to drive it, because just how high you were and how much you could see! It reminded me of the Homer's car from the Simpsons - ugly but you can't help but wonder how pleasant it would be to operate.

quickthrower2 5y ago

I always wondered this too. Australia seems to have the American style truck too. I find them a bit more fun and less “serious looking” than the European ones.

da39a3ee 5y ago

I think European lorry drivers mostly sleep in the beds above the driving area no? Where do US truck drivers sleep?

ehnto 5y ago

We have a mix here in Australia, which makes sense I think. I wonder if the long nose form factor gives any benfits for road trains. Long, long distance and big power requirements often on dirt roads. Perhaps you get some stability and comfort benefits. Moreso I think you just don't have to figure out how to stuff all that power in a tight form factor, which is just easier.

prometheus76 5y ago

Another significant advantage to the conventional design over cabover designs is the heat issue. The heat coming off the engine is significant, and if you can move the cab behind the engine instead of over it, it's much easier to keep the cabin cool in the summer. Large parts of the US have significantly hotter summers than those found in Europe, so this is a big issue for much of the US.