10 ms·

NYTimes has a pretty good source on this. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-hospitals-near-you.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us

NYTimes has a pretty good source on this. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-hospitals-near-you.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-hospitals-... I'll tell you that here in Chicago, based off data, and anecdotes: really depends on the neighborhood. Vaccinated areas? Doing fine. Undervaccinated areas? Not doing so well. Gosh, it's like vaccines work and that's the way out of this.

colpabar 5y ago
> Gosh, it's like vaccines work and that's the way out of this. You know, I see snarky little comments like this becoming more and more common on this site, and I'd just like to point out that they are not helpful in any way. Who is it directed towards? Do you think you are convincing anyone, or encouraging a productive discussion? I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of people on this website are vaccinated. I know I am. In my opinion, that line is the equivalent of saying "gosh, maybe black people should just stop committing crimes if they don't want to go to jail" or "gosh, maybe gay people should just stop having unprotected sex if they don't want HIV." I am begging you, and everyone else, PLEASE, if you want to make a point, please do it in a respectful way that doesn't assume anyone who disagrees is stupid. If you need to be snarky, go do it on the-site-that-must-not-be-named.
- hooande 5y ago
  It's a commonly accepted fact that vaccines work. We were all vaccinated against multiple viruses as babies for a reason. The fact that he added the word "Gosh" to his comment doesn't make it insulting or target any specific group of people. You're taking great offense over nothing and distracting from a meaningful discussion.
- reanimus 5y ago
  > Who is it directed towards? I imagine toward the people who behave as if vaccines aren't effective, which are nonzero. > In my opinion, that line is the equivalent of saying "gosh, maybe black people should just stop committing crimes if they don't want to go to jail" or "gosh, maybe gay people should just stop having unprotected sex if they don't want HIV." I mean. The latter statement is a thing gay people actually DID say, long before the government told them to. Gay people noticed that it was spread through sex and that condoms work. Not even going to touch the former statement since I don't feel like wading into the criminalization of black people. Suffice to say, not convinced by either of these comparisons. > I am begging you, and everyone else, PLEASE, if you want to make a point, please do it in a respectful way that doesn't assume anyone who disagrees is stupid. If you need to be snarky, go do it on the-site-that-must-not-be-named. I'd label your preceding statement to be snarky, fwiw.
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  I don't think comments like that are meant to convince anyone. There are vanishingly few circumstances other than legitimate medical conflicts that warrant being unvaccinated. Namely, crippling anxiety of planning/scheduling the appointment, or being misled by trusted advisors (Fox Entertainment or doctors who should have their medical license revoked). Other than that, I have very little patience or sympathy.
  - jjeaff 5y ago
    I'm surprised more doctors have not had their license revoked for publicly preaching misinformation. You can have your license revoked for treating a patient when a more specialized expert is available. For example, a dentist can get in trouble for not referring more complex issues to a dental surgeon, periodontist, etc. And yet we have cardiologists and eye doctors and chiropractors telling the public that the vaccine is dangerous and that we would be better off without it. I saw someone mentioned that a doctor/professor from Johns Hopkins was raising concerns about college age kids getting vaccinated. I looked him up. He's a surgical oncologist. Guess what the epidemiologists, virologists, and immunologists at Johns Hopkins are recommending? Oh ya, and the surgical oncologist turned epidemiologist just so happens to have a book about the pandemic that he is pushing right now. I'm sure that has nothing to do with it.
- rnk 5y ago
  I think repeating accurate facts is an important thing. Because the random complaints in incorrect and bizarre negative anti-vax claims pass by without someone addressing them often. What is real and true matters. There's lots of things that are hard to decide, but we know that they're not millions of hidden deaths from getting vaccinated, and we know that there are millions of people protected from dying because they got vaccinated.
- watersb 5y ago
  I actually want to hear good reasons for avoiding vaccinations, because many people care a lot about that. I can understand immuno-compromised people, an underlying medical condition, for whom a vaccine may not work or may be dangerous. Undergoing chemotherapy treatment for cancer? Got it: vaccines won't help you (or anyone else) until you can get past the cancer. I don't agree with an argument from stand-my-ground, my-body-my-choice principles. I could agree with such a line of reasoning, if a personal choice did not present an immediate danger to anyone else. This is a very infectious disease with severe health consequences. No one has control over the outcome, if they choose to infect another person. Maybe it's no big deal for them. Or maybe it wrecks their life, long after the vaccine objector has left the scene. What are some other reasons for avoiding vaccination?
  - endisneigh 5y ago
    Nobody here is advocating for avoiding vaccinations so your entire point is moot.
    - reanimus 5y ago
      I think if we're supposed to treat the position against vaccination being effective as "not stupid", we ought to hear reasons why that is.
      - endisneigh 5y ago
        Even if it’s stupid, what exactly is saying that going to accomplish other than feigning some superiority over the unvaccinated?
      - colpabar 5y ago
        My point is that if you insinuate that anyone who holds that position is stupid through sarcasm and snarky comments, you are never going to hear those reasons, because no one will want to engage with you.
        reanimus 5y ago
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  > You know, I see snarky little comments like this becoming more and more common on this site, and I'd just like to point out that they are not helpful in any way. It just represents a general fatigue that a lot of people have with the anti vaxxers. That we have hard numbers that vaccines actually work seems to be irrelevant to them, so maybe they would be convinced by snark and sarcasm instead? > In my opinion, that line is the equivalent of saying "gosh, maybe black people should just stop committing crimes if they don't want to go to jail" or "gosh, maybe gay people should just stop having unprotected sex if they don't want HIV." You are comparing getting a couple of free shots at the pharmacy to much more complicated lifestyle circumstances.
  - wallacoloo 5y ago
    > It just represents a general fatigue that a lot of people have with the anti vaxxers. That we have hard numbers that vaccines actually work seems to be irrelevant to them, so why maybe they would be convinced by snark and sarcasm instead? and you think this is an experience unique to your viewpoint? do you think the people reading your words who have vaguely opposing views might not also be fatigued when your group flatly denies their concerns as irrelevant? if you find yourself in an us-vs-them mindset and decide to ditch empathy, all you do is widen the divide.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      > do you think the people reading your words who have vaguely opposing views might not also be fatigued when your group flatly denies their concerns as irrelevant? In the sense that a conspiracy theorist or a crank gets tired of people not believing them, yes, I guess they are annoyed. I just little empathy for them: I want this pandemic to be over, and they are getting in the way of that. Barring that, I hope that they can take responsibility for their choices without forcing the consequences on everyone else.
      - wallacoloo 5y ago
        > I have little empathy for them, however: I want this pandemic to be over, and they are getting in the way of that. funny, because most everyone i know wants this too, and it’s always “the other side” which prevents the pandemic from “being over”. from a person standing in the middle, it appears that it’s the divide which blocks this, whereas from deep behind lines i guess it looks like everyone past that divide is blocking things. well good luck winning a battle in the modern world through force of will. there’s a reason the world powers generally don’t conduct large wars openly these days, and that many conflicts are instead resolved via international agreements (especially of trade). if you do discover a way to resolve the social woes in life without leveraging pro-social behaviors (like cooperation/empathy), write me and share your findings so that i in turn can better the state of our society. and if you spot the inherent contradiction of the previous sentence, i’ll buy you a beer.
- perardi 5y ago
- EFreethought 5y ago
- watwut 5y ago
  > I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of people on this website are vaccinated. I am not so sure. HN is the most "covid is just a flu, masks and respirators dont matter, teachers should teach when sick with covid those lazy bastards" place I regularly visit. I would be surprised if vaccination rates did not followed the same general political alignement.
  - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
    HN, whatever it's faults is not just one side on this (or many other) political battles. Encryption is probably the only thing that most people on HN agree with.
abduhl 5y ago
What are the demographics of each of your identified cohorts? For example, if the south side is under vaccinated (whatever that means) and doing poorly then it seems a little disingenuous to act like their medical care wasn’t subpar prior to Covid.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
edmcnulty101 5y ago
> Vaccinated areas? Doing fine. Undervaccinated areas? Not doing so well. Not accurate AT ALL. NPR has a better source that also gives COVID patient percentage. Marin County, CA and Santa Cruz, CA county have 95% vaccination rates and are doing worse in ICU capacity than Escambia county, FL who has 55% vaccination rates. For most ICUs running at 80 to 90 percent capacity is standard. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/944379919/new-data-reveal-which-hospitals-are-dangerously-full-is-yours https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/9443799... https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-flow/2-healthcare-leaders-talk-icu-capacity-5-sound-bites.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-flow/2-healthc...
- joshuamorton 5y ago
  > Marin County, CA and Santa Cruz, CA county have 95% vaccination rates and are doing worse in ICU capacity than Escambia county, FL who has 55% vaccination rates. Marin and SC counties have 13% of beds filled by covid patients. Escambia has 21% filled by covid patients. This appears to directly contradict what you claimed.
  - edmcnulty101 5y ago
    We're talking about ICU capacity. That's what flattening the curve is all about. Marin and Santa Cruz have LESS Covid patients and are closer to overflowing than Escambia. Also covid patients only make up 13% of the ICU? Something is odd with your flattening the curve narrative blaming overflow on Covid patients.
    - joshuamorton 5y ago
      Icus in normal times stay at 70% capacity, so covid adding 20-30 percent capacity fills them up. Doing what CA does, flattening the curve and keeping covid induced capacity at 10-15% allows hospitals to continue functioning normally.
      - edmcnulty101 5y ago

colpabar 5y ago

> Gosh, it's like vaccines work and that's the way out of this. You know, I see snarky little comments like this becoming more and more common on this site, and I'd just like to point out that they are not helpful in any way. Who is it directed towards? Do you think you are convincing anyone, or encouraging a productive discussion? I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of people on this website are vaccinated. I know I am. In my opinion, that line is the equivalent of saying "gosh, maybe black people should just stop committing crimes if they don't want to go to jail" or "gosh, maybe gay people should just stop having unprotected sex if they don't want HIV." I am begging you, and everyone else, PLEASE, if you want to make a point, please do it in a respectful way that doesn't assume anyone who disagrees is stupid. If you need to be snarky, go do it on the-site-that-must-not-be-named.

hooande 5y ago
It's a commonly accepted fact that vaccines work. We were all vaccinated against multiple viruses as babies for a reason. The fact that he added the word "Gosh" to his comment doesn't make it insulting or target any specific group of people. You're taking great offense over nothing and distracting from a meaningful discussion.
reanimus 5y ago
> Who is it directed towards? I imagine toward the people who behave as if vaccines aren't effective, which are nonzero. > In my opinion, that line is the equivalent of saying "gosh, maybe black people should just stop committing crimes if they don't want to go to jail" or "gosh, maybe gay people should just stop having unprotected sex if they don't want HIV." I mean. The latter statement is a thing gay people actually DID say, long before the government told them to. Gay people noticed that it was spread through sex and that condoms work. Not even going to touch the former statement since I don't feel like wading into the criminalization of black people. Suffice to say, not convinced by either of these comparisons. > I am begging you, and everyone else, PLEASE, if you want to make a point, please do it in a respectful way that doesn't assume anyone who disagrees is stupid. If you need to be snarky, go do it on the-site-that-must-not-be-named. I'd label your preceding statement to be snarky, fwiw.
unethical_ban 5y ago
I don't think comments like that are meant to convince anyone. There are vanishingly few circumstances other than legitimate medical conflicts that warrant being unvaccinated. Namely, crippling anxiety of planning/scheduling the appointment, or being misled by trusted advisors (Fox Entertainment or doctors who should have their medical license revoked). Other than that, I have very little patience or sympathy.
- jjeaff 5y ago
  I'm surprised more doctors have not had their license revoked for publicly preaching misinformation. You can have your license revoked for treating a patient when a more specialized expert is available. For example, a dentist can get in trouble for not referring more complex issues to a dental surgeon, periodontist, etc. And yet we have cardiologists and eye doctors and chiropractors telling the public that the vaccine is dangerous and that we would be better off without it. I saw someone mentioned that a doctor/professor from Johns Hopkins was raising concerns about college age kids getting vaccinated. I looked him up. He's a surgical oncologist. Guess what the epidemiologists, virologists, and immunologists at Johns Hopkins are recommending? Oh ya, and the surgical oncologist turned epidemiologist just so happens to have a book about the pandemic that he is pushing right now. I'm sure that has nothing to do with it.
rnk 5y ago
I think repeating accurate facts is an important thing. Because the random complaints in incorrect and bizarre negative anti-vax claims pass by without someone addressing them often. What is real and true matters. There's lots of things that are hard to decide, but we know that they're not millions of hidden deaths from getting vaccinated, and we know that there are millions of people protected from dying because they got vaccinated.
watersb 5y ago
I actually want to hear good reasons for avoiding vaccinations, because many people care a lot about that. I can understand immuno-compromised people, an underlying medical condition, for whom a vaccine may not work or may be dangerous. Undergoing chemotherapy treatment for cancer? Got it: vaccines won't help you (or anyone else) until you can get past the cancer. I don't agree with an argument from stand-my-ground, my-body-my-choice principles. I could agree with such a line of reasoning, if a personal choice did not present an immediate danger to anyone else. This is a very infectious disease with severe health consequences. No one has control over the outcome, if they choose to infect another person. Maybe it's no big deal for them. Or maybe it wrecks their life, long after the vaccine objector has left the scene. What are some other reasons for avoiding vaccination?
- endisneigh 5y ago
  Nobody here is advocating for avoiding vaccinations so your entire point is moot.
  - reanimus 5y ago
    I think if we're supposed to treat the position against vaccination being effective as "not stupid", we ought to hear reasons why that is.
    - endisneigh 5y ago
      Even if it’s stupid, what exactly is saying that going to accomplish other than feigning some superiority over the unvaccinated?
    - colpabar 5y ago
      My point is that if you insinuate that anyone who holds that position is stupid through sarcasm and snarky comments, you are never going to hear those reasons, because no one will want to engage with you.
      - reanimus 5y ago
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
> You know, I see snarky little comments like this becoming more and more common on this site, and I'd just like to point out that they are not helpful in any way. It just represents a general fatigue that a lot of people have with the anti vaxxers. That we have hard numbers that vaccines actually work seems to be irrelevant to them, so maybe they would be convinced by snark and sarcasm instead? > In my opinion, that line is the equivalent of saying "gosh, maybe black people should just stop committing crimes if they don't want to go to jail" or "gosh, maybe gay people should just stop having unprotected sex if they don't want HIV." You are comparing getting a couple of free shots at the pharmacy to much more complicated lifestyle circumstances.
- wallacoloo 5y ago
  > It just represents a general fatigue that a lot of people have with the anti vaxxers. That we have hard numbers that vaccines actually work seems to be irrelevant to them, so why maybe they would be convinced by snark and sarcasm instead? and you think this is an experience unique to your viewpoint? do you think the people reading your words who have vaguely opposing views might not also be fatigued when your group flatly denies their concerns as irrelevant? if you find yourself in an us-vs-them mindset and decide to ditch empathy, all you do is widen the divide.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    > do you think the people reading your words who have vaguely opposing views might not also be fatigued when your group flatly denies their concerns as irrelevant? In the sense that a conspiracy theorist or a crank gets tired of people not believing them, yes, I guess they are annoyed. I just little empathy for them: I want this pandemic to be over, and they are getting in the way of that. Barring that, I hope that they can take responsibility for their choices without forcing the consequences on everyone else.
    - wallacoloo 5y ago
      > I have little empathy for them, however: I want this pandemic to be over, and they are getting in the way of that. funny, because most everyone i know wants this too, and it’s always “the other side” which prevents the pandemic from “being over”. from a person standing in the middle, it appears that it’s the divide which blocks this, whereas from deep behind lines i guess it looks like everyone past that divide is blocking things. well good luck winning a battle in the modern world through force of will. there’s a reason the world powers generally don’t conduct large wars openly these days, and that many conflicts are instead resolved via international agreements (especially of trade). if you do discover a way to resolve the social woes in life without leveraging pro-social behaviors (like cooperation/empathy), write me and share your findings so that i in turn can better the state of our society. and if you spot the inherent contradiction of the previous sentence, i’ll buy you a beer.
perardi 5y ago
EFreethought 5y ago
watwut 5y ago
> I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of people on this website are vaccinated. I am not so sure. HN is the most "covid is just a flu, masks and respirators dont matter, teachers should teach when sick with covid those lazy bastards" place I regularly visit. I would be surprised if vaccination rates did not followed the same general political alignement.
- disgruntledphd2 5y ago
  HN, whatever it's faults is not just one side on this (or many other) political battles. Encryption is probably the only thing that most people on HN agree with.

abduhl 5y ago

What are the demographics of each of your identified cohorts? For example, if the south side is under vaccinated (whatever that means) and doing poorly then it seems a little disingenuous to act like their medical care wasn’t subpar prior to Covid.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

edmcnulty101 5y ago

> Vaccinated areas? Doing fine. Undervaccinated areas? Not doing so well. Not accurate AT ALL. NPR has a better source that also gives COVID patient percentage. Marin County, CA and Santa Cruz, CA county have 95% vaccination rates and are doing worse in ICU capacity than Escambia county, FL who has 55% vaccination rates. For most ICUs running at 80 to 90 percent capacity is standard. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/944379919/new-data-reveal-which-hospitals-are-dangerously-full-is-yours https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/9443799... https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-flow/2-healthcare-leaders-talk-icu-capacity-5-sound-bites.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-flow/2-healthc...

joshuamorton 5y ago
> Marin County, CA and Santa Cruz, CA county have 95% vaccination rates and are doing worse in ICU capacity than Escambia county, FL who has 55% vaccination rates. Marin and SC counties have 13% of beds filled by covid patients. Escambia has 21% filled by covid patients. This appears to directly contradict what you claimed.
- edmcnulty101 5y ago
  We're talking about ICU capacity. That's what flattening the curve is all about. Marin and Santa Cruz have LESS Covid patients and are closer to overflowing than Escambia. Also covid patients only make up 13% of the ICU? Something is odd with your flattening the curve narrative blaming overflow on Covid patients.
  - joshuamorton 5y ago
    Icus in normal times stay at 70% capacity, so covid adding 20-30 percent capacity fills them up. Doing what CA does, flattening the curve and keeping covid induced capacity at 10-15% allows hospitals to continue functioning normally.
    - edmcnulty101 5y ago