10 ms·

> They'd also know that pretty much the only condition we're treating nowadays is Covid. This statement might be true for your location but is not true in gene

by lr1970 5y ago

> They'd also know that pretty much the only condition we're treating nowadays is Covid. This statement might be true for your location but is not true in general. Here in New York City hospitalizations due to covid are not very high and going down quickly. Elective surgeries and procedures go on as scheduled. ICUs are not overrun with covid specific cases. Majority of the patients with positive PCR test are hospitalized for medical reasons other than covid. Recorded deaths do not differentiate between "died from covid" and "died while covid positive" making death statistics hard to interpret. In general, compared to the situation on the ground in March-April 2020 this time the covid load on NYC hospital system is lighter. The biggest challenge is staffing shortages in the hospitals due to general burn-out, people being on sick leave due to spreading omicron. Noticeable percentage of nurses were laid off because of the vaccine mandate (i am not judging the mandate, just stating the consequence). SOURCE: several physician relatives and friends working in NYC hospitals (Manhattan, Bronx, Brooklyn).

perardi 5y ago
NYTimes has a pretty good source on this. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-hospitals-near-you.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-hospitals-... I'll tell you that here in Chicago, based off data, and anecdotes: really depends on the neighborhood. Vaccinated areas? Doing fine. Undervaccinated areas? Not doing so well. Gosh, it's like vaccines work and that's the way out of this.
- colpabar 5y ago
  > Gosh, it's like vaccines work and that's the way out of this. You know, I see snarky little comments like this becoming more and more common on this site, and I'd just like to point out that they are not helpful in any way. Who is it directed towards? Do you think you are convincing anyone, or encouraging a productive discussion? I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of people on this website are vaccinated. I know I am. In my opinion, that line is the equivalent of saying "gosh, maybe black people should just stop committing crimes if they don't want to go to jail" or "gosh, maybe gay people should just stop having unprotected sex if they don't want HIV." I am begging you, and everyone else, PLEASE, if you want to make a point, please do it in a respectful way that doesn't assume anyone who disagrees is stupid. If you need to be snarky, go do it on the-site-that-must-not-be-named.
  - hooande 5y ago
    It's a commonly accepted fact that vaccines work. We were all vaccinated against multiple viruses as babies for a reason. The fact that he added the word "Gosh" to his comment doesn't make it insulting or target any specific group of people. You're taking great offense over nothing and distracting from a meaningful discussion.
  - reanimus 5y ago
    > Who is it directed towards? I imagine toward the people who behave as if vaccines aren't effective, which are nonzero. > In my opinion, that line is the equivalent of saying "gosh, maybe black people should just stop committing crimes if they don't want to go to jail" or "gosh, maybe gay people should just stop having unprotected sex if they don't want HIV." I mean. The latter statement is a thing gay people actually DID say, long before the government told them to. Gay people noticed that it was spread through sex and that condoms work. Not even going to touch the former statement since I don't feel like wading into the criminalization of black people. Suffice to say, not convinced by either of these comparisons. > I am begging you, and everyone else, PLEASE, if you want to make a point, please do it in a respectful way that doesn't assume anyone who disagrees is stupid. If you need to be snarky, go do it on the-site-that-must-not-be-named. I'd label your preceding statement to be snarky, fwiw.
  - unethical_ban 5y ago
    I don't think comments like that are meant to convince anyone. There are vanishingly few circumstances other than legitimate medical conflicts that warrant being unvaccinated. Namely, crippling anxiety of planning/scheduling the appointment, or being misled by trusted advisors (Fox Entertainment or doctors who should have their medical license revoked). Other than that, I have very little patience or sympathy.
    - jjeaff 5y ago
      I'm surprised more doctors have not had their license revoked for publicly preaching misinformation. You can have your license revoked for treating a patient when a more specialized expert is available. For example, a dentist can get in trouble for not referring more complex issues to a dental surgeon, periodontist, etc. And yet we have cardiologists and eye doctors and chiropractors telling the public that the vaccine is dangerous and that we would be better off without it. I saw someone mentioned that a doctor/professor from Johns Hopkins was raising concerns about college age kids getting vaccinated. I looked him up. He's a surgical oncologist. Guess what the epidemiologists, virologists, and immunologists at Johns Hopkins are recommending? Oh ya, and the surgical oncologist turned epidemiologist just so happens to have a book about the pandemic that he is pushing right now. I'm sure that has nothing to do with it.
- abduhl 5y ago
  What are the demographics of each of your identified cohorts? For example, if the south side is under vaccinated (whatever that means) and doing poorly then it seems a little disingenuous to act like their medical care wasn’t subpar prior to Covid.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- edmcnulty101 5y ago
  > Vaccinated areas? Doing fine. Undervaccinated areas? Not doing so well. Not accurate AT ALL. NPR has a better source that also gives COVID patient percentage. Marin County, CA and Santa Cruz, CA county have 95% vaccination rates and are doing worse in ICU capacity than Escambia county, FL who has 55% vaccination rates. For most ICUs running at 80 to 90 percent capacity is standard. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/944379919/new-data-reveal-which-hospitals-are-dangerously-full-is-yours https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/9443799... https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-flow/2-healthcare-leaders-talk-icu-capacity-5-sound-bites.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-flow/2-healthc...
  - joshuamorton 5y ago
    > Marin County, CA and Santa Cruz, CA county have 95% vaccination rates and are doing worse in ICU capacity than Escambia county, FL who has 55% vaccination rates. Marin and SC counties have 13% of beds filled by covid patients. Escambia has 21% filled by covid patients. This appears to directly contradict what you claimed.
    - edmcnulty101 5y ago
      We're talking about ICU capacity. That's what flattening the curve is all about. Marin and Santa Cruz have LESS Covid patients and are closer to overflowing than Escambia. Also covid patients only make up 13% of the ICU? Something is odd with your flattening the curve narrative blaming overflow on Covid patients.
      - joshuamorton 5y ago
        Icus in normal times stay at 70% capacity, so covid adding 20-30 percent capacity fills them up. Doing what CA does, flattening the curve and keeping covid induced capacity at 10-15% allows hospitals to continue functioning normally.
        edmcnulty101 5y ago
joshuamorton 5y ago
> Recorded deaths do not differentiate between "died from covid" and "died while covid positive" making death statistics hard to interpret. This has never been true and remains false.
- ya_throw 5y ago
  The UK Government Covid death statistics literally say "deaths with Covid", and are defined as "deaths within 28 days of a positive test". So it is true, and always has been. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths
  - joshuamorton 5y ago
    The next line is "deaths with covid on the death certificate", which is different and is actually a higher number and the more important number, as it deals with people who died of covid induced pneumonia after a multi-week stay in the ICU, but not people who by chance had a heart attack after contracting a mild case.
    - ya_throw 5y ago
      Now there's where we get into interesting territory. The UK significantly relaxed regulations around March 2020, and basically made it very easy to put "Covid" on death certificates. The requirement for a coroner's report in the case of a novel disease (ie, Covid) was also dropped, as well as the requirement to do a Covid test (or even certify the death in person). [1] As a result, it will never be possible to know how many died of specifically Covid, and how many died of a viral-induced pneumonia. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
      - joshuamorton 5y ago
        So can you explain something to me: We know how many people die of non-covid viral induced pneumonia in a normal year (and in a bad year). Most of it is caused by the flu. We also know that covid policies have demonstrably reduced flu rates to some of the lowest ever over the past few years. So what other cause of viral induced pneumonia do you suppose is the one killing everyone?

by lr1970 5y ago

perardi 5y ago

NYTimes has a pretty good source on this. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-hospitals-near-you.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-hospitals-... I'll tell you that here in Chicago, based off data, and anecdotes: really depends on the neighborhood. Vaccinated areas? Doing fine. Undervaccinated areas? Not doing so well. Gosh, it's like vaccines work and that's the way out of this.

colpabar 5y ago
> Gosh, it's like vaccines work and that's the way out of this. You know, I see snarky little comments like this becoming more and more common on this site, and I'd just like to point out that they are not helpful in any way. Who is it directed towards? Do you think you are convincing anyone, or encouraging a productive discussion? I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of people on this website are vaccinated. I know I am. In my opinion, that line is the equivalent of saying "gosh, maybe black people should just stop committing crimes if they don't want to go to jail" or "gosh, maybe gay people should just stop having unprotected sex if they don't want HIV." I am begging you, and everyone else, PLEASE, if you want to make a point, please do it in a respectful way that doesn't assume anyone who disagrees is stupid. If you need to be snarky, go do it on the-site-that-must-not-be-named.
- hooande 5y ago
  It's a commonly accepted fact that vaccines work. We were all vaccinated against multiple viruses as babies for a reason. The fact that he added the word "Gosh" to his comment doesn't make it insulting or target any specific group of people. You're taking great offense over nothing and distracting from a meaningful discussion.
- reanimus 5y ago
  > Who is it directed towards? I imagine toward the people who behave as if vaccines aren't effective, which are nonzero. > In my opinion, that line is the equivalent of saying "gosh, maybe black people should just stop committing crimes if they don't want to go to jail" or "gosh, maybe gay people should just stop having unprotected sex if they don't want HIV." I mean. The latter statement is a thing gay people actually DID say, long before the government told them to. Gay people noticed that it was spread through sex and that condoms work. Not even going to touch the former statement since I don't feel like wading into the criminalization of black people. Suffice to say, not convinced by either of these comparisons. > I am begging you, and everyone else, PLEASE, if you want to make a point, please do it in a respectful way that doesn't assume anyone who disagrees is stupid. If you need to be snarky, go do it on the-site-that-must-not-be-named. I'd label your preceding statement to be snarky, fwiw.
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  I don't think comments like that are meant to convince anyone. There are vanishingly few circumstances other than legitimate medical conflicts that warrant being unvaccinated. Namely, crippling anxiety of planning/scheduling the appointment, or being misled by trusted advisors (Fox Entertainment or doctors who should have their medical license revoked). Other than that, I have very little patience or sympathy.
  - jjeaff 5y ago
    I'm surprised more doctors have not had their license revoked for publicly preaching misinformation. You can have your license revoked for treating a patient when a more specialized expert is available. For example, a dentist can get in trouble for not referring more complex issues to a dental surgeon, periodontist, etc. And yet we have cardiologists and eye doctors and chiropractors telling the public that the vaccine is dangerous and that we would be better off without it. I saw someone mentioned that a doctor/professor from Johns Hopkins was raising concerns about college age kids getting vaccinated. I looked him up. He's a surgical oncologist. Guess what the epidemiologists, virologists, and immunologists at Johns Hopkins are recommending? Oh ya, and the surgical oncologist turned epidemiologist just so happens to have a book about the pandemic that he is pushing right now. I'm sure that has nothing to do with it.
abduhl 5y ago
What are the demographics of each of your identified cohorts? For example, if the south side is under vaccinated (whatever that means) and doing poorly then it seems a little disingenuous to act like their medical care wasn’t subpar prior to Covid.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
edmcnulty101 5y ago
> Vaccinated areas? Doing fine. Undervaccinated areas? Not doing so well. Not accurate AT ALL. NPR has a better source that also gives COVID patient percentage. Marin County, CA and Santa Cruz, CA county have 95% vaccination rates and are doing worse in ICU capacity than Escambia county, FL who has 55% vaccination rates. For most ICUs running at 80 to 90 percent capacity is standard. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/944379919/new-data-reveal-which-hospitals-are-dangerously-full-is-yours https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/9443799... https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-flow/2-healthcare-leaders-talk-icu-capacity-5-sound-bites.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-flow/2-healthc...
- joshuamorton 5y ago
  > Marin County, CA and Santa Cruz, CA county have 95% vaccination rates and are doing worse in ICU capacity than Escambia county, FL who has 55% vaccination rates. Marin and SC counties have 13% of beds filled by covid patients. Escambia has 21% filled by covid patients. This appears to directly contradict what you claimed.
  - edmcnulty101 5y ago
    We're talking about ICU capacity. That's what flattening the curve is all about. Marin and Santa Cruz have LESS Covid patients and are closer to overflowing than Escambia. Also covid patients only make up 13% of the ICU? Something is odd with your flattening the curve narrative blaming overflow on Covid patients.
    - joshuamorton 5y ago
      Icus in normal times stay at 70% capacity, so covid adding 20-30 percent capacity fills them up. Doing what CA does, flattening the curve and keeping covid induced capacity at 10-15% allows hospitals to continue functioning normally.
      - edmcnulty101 5y ago

joshuamorton 5y ago

> Recorded deaths do not differentiate between "died from covid" and "died while covid positive" making death statistics hard to interpret. This has never been true and remains false.

ya_throw 5y ago
The UK Government Covid death statistics literally say "deaths with Covid", and are defined as "deaths within 28 days of a positive test". So it is true, and always has been. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths
- joshuamorton 5y ago
  The next line is "deaths with covid on the death certificate", which is different and is actually a higher number and the more important number, as it deals with people who died of covid induced pneumonia after a multi-week stay in the ICU, but not people who by chance had a heart attack after contracting a mild case.
  - ya_throw 5y ago
    Now there's where we get into interesting territory. The UK significantly relaxed regulations around March 2020, and basically made it very easy to put "Covid" on death certificates. The requirement for a coroner's report in the case of a novel disease (ie, Covid) was also dropped, as well as the requirement to do a Covid test (or even certify the death in person). [1] As a result, it will never be possible to know how many died of specifically Covid, and how many died of a viral-induced pneumonia. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
    - joshuamorton 5y ago
      So can you explain something to me: We know how many people die of non-covid viral induced pneumonia in a normal year (and in a bad year). Most of it is caused by the flu. We also know that covid policies have demonstrably reduced flu rates to some of the lowest ever over the past few years. So what other cause of viral induced pneumonia do you suppose is the one killing everyone?