27 ms·

An Experience with Modafinil

209 points by ipnon 5y ago

Flankk 5y ago
Is this person insane? Four hours of sleep and six cups of coffee per day? Lay off the drugs and get a good 8 hours sleep.
- ecshafer 5y ago
  To give them the benefit of the doubt. They say " was dreading a lengthy day at the hospital", which makes me think they may be a MD resident, or similar with horrid schedules.
- senectus1 5y ago
  used to do this a lot. still recovering from it. I suspect my mind is permanently damaged in subtle ways from this behaviour. either that or 47 is "wind down time" for my brain
  - the_only_law 5y ago
    Yeah this is probably not too far from my daily routine, except replace coffees with energy drinks. Though I oversleep significantly on the weekends (normally aided by the effects/after effects of shit that’s worse for my brain). It very obviously has major negative effects, but I just can’t bring myself to change it. I’ve tried once or twice, but I always return to this. If life was a little more flexible, I think I could pull off biphasic sleep and be ok, but when I want to sleep I usually have meetings and when I’m wide awake it’s usual the middle of the night (writing this at 3:25am).
    - senectus1 5y ago
      A bit like exercise you need to : a) be fairly rigid with it b) turn it into a habit. If you don't you're going to have burn out. not just emotionally but physically. I had a fit that the Dr put down to poor sleep and eating habits. It took me weeks to get over the immediate effect of the fit, I felt like I'd been worked over with a baseball bat. I used that recovery time to go cold turkey on caffeine (if I'm going to feel like crap i might as well have a good reason for it), I limit myself to tea only now, and only 1-3 cups a day. I eat a lot better and I go bike riding a few times a week. I get at least 6 1/2 hours a sleep a night, and aim for 7-8. its worth noting that while there is evidence for sleep debt, there is no evidence that oversleeping helps correct it.
- maxerickson 5y ago
  What's wrong with 5 cups of coffee a day?
  - Flankk 5y ago
    Studies show that moderate caffeine consumption (2-4 cups per day) has beneficial health effects. Excess consumption is linked to adverse effects. There is an optimal dose when it comes to caffeine. Building up tolerance to where you need six or more cups is where you get into trouble.
    - TameAntelope 5y ago
      I doubt the studies show such a stark drop off at cup 5 that it's "insane" or anything...
  - CrazyPyroLinux 5y ago
    Missing out on that 6th cup!
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      Coffee doesn't even do anything when you take that much of it all the time.
- andai 5y ago
  They work in a hospital. I hear 4 hours a night is normal in med school. If I'm not mistaken, that same culture of chronic sleep deprivation is also present in hospitals, so they don't seem like an outlier to me. Perhaps someone with more experience can confirm this.
  - nnoitra 5y ago
    It's absurd really. Sleep deprived doctors with heavily impacted short-term memories are making life and death decisions for patients.
- 3a2d29 5y ago
  Only partially related, but I am so surprised that lack of sleep seems to be normalized in the medical industry (or at least appear to be, I am not a doctor). I would think we would want doctor's brains running at 100%
  - a9h74j 5y ago
    Just had a surgery. Was joking with the nurse that they will study the exact temperature for a warm air-blanket and every other variable, but will never study how much sleep a resident needs to get.
Fezzik 5y ago
I’ve wanted to try Modafinil for a long time but I’m too nervous to order it online. My doctor won’t prescribe it to me, saying it is only for extreme narcoleptics, though I think the real reason is that its street value is pretty high… because it works.
- nkozyra 5y ago
  Preface this with whatever caveats necessary: adrafinil is a modafinil prodrug which is unscheduled in the U.S. In other words, it's effectively modafinil in vivo. Secondary note: I was once prescribed modafinil for severe sleeping issues before I knew it had some street/techbro value (maybe it didn't then). My experience was not great. I only took it for three days and then stopped. I would say the effect on wakefulness was very subtle. I think I stayed up until 11 or 12 each night wherein I'd normally be up until 2 unable to sleep. I suppose the difference is I didn't get the late afternoon crash. However, I'd wake up at 4 or 5 with significant itching. To the point that it was hard to go back to sleep. There are some serious side effects to consider that are somewhat related to skin issues and when I reported this to my doctor he seemed concerned and told me to keep an eye out for another week. I just stopped. I've worked hard on sleep habits and it's gotten a lot better naturally. Intuitively, better sleep = better wakefulness/happiness/productivity, but we all tend to fight these uphill battles sometimes. We think if we just put in an extra few hours tonight, we'll be ahead of the game. But instead we end up putting in low-value work and being exhausted the next day, starting the cycle anew. I really didn't find much huge exciting value in my short foray into modafinil, though. If you can work on some natural sleep training or even 5htp/melatonin/whatever works for you, you'll be better off.
  - zucker42 5y ago
    Adrafinil can be bad for your liver, which is a major reason to prefer modafinil despite the fact it's illegal.
    - nkozyra 5y ago
      I did a lot of reading into this after learning my old medication had become the cool thing to do, and the difference between them is largely overblown. Yes, there's slightly more liver metabolism involved but both carry warnings about potential liver damage.
kingcharles 5y ago
Also see this mothership of information: https://www.gwern.net/Modafinil https://www.gwern.net/Modafinil
- jseliger 5y ago
  Was coming here to post the same: Modafinil, used judiciously, is amazing.
brotchie 5y ago
Modafinil is a pretty amazing drug. The come down after one use isn’t too bad. But if you’ve been using it daily for a week, the comedown is BRUTAL: pretty much feel like you have zero energy and feel like laying prone for 8 hours. Once did 48 straight awake on it and felt wide awake 36 hours in… Distinctly remember the 1st time I took it. Was perhaps 8pm at night and I swore it was 8am in the morning and I’d just had an amazing sleep: felt completely wide awake and alert.
- ei8htyfi5e 5y ago
  I took it heavily in grad school. Prescribed off label for adhd. You can be in any state of exhaustion, take a modafinil, and an hour later feel like you just woke up on a Sunday morning after sleeping in. It’s nuts. The military uses it for fighter pilots. You can take it for days and only lose minimal amounts of reaction timing. At my peak, I stayed up for finals for a week straight with maybe 2 hours of sleep total. Don’t lecture me, I know. Anyway, it took 2 days in bed for me to recover after. Brutal. Towards the end of that time period, my brain stopped processing information in the 30 degrees at the edge of my peripheral vision on either side. We were at a restaurant celebrating being done and the waiter kept teleporting into view at around 60 degrees off my center line. Very startling. Done with it now since I don’t have anything nearly that stressful in my life, but back then, it was a godsend. Modafinil has a 15 hour half life so my main complaint was my sleep schedule was about 26-28 hours so I was constantly shifting. Adrafinil is only the active isomer in modafinil so it’s more potent. I didn’t like it as much. Even at a half tab it still kept me up longer than modafinil. Also modafinil makes your pee smell when it’s metabolized whereas adrafinil not nearly as much.
  - marcan_42 5y ago
    Am I the only one thinking there is something seriously wrong with an education system if students have to resort to drugs that keep them awake for a week to succeed in it? I mean I'm not exactly anti-medication but... wow.
    - kfarr 5y ago
smegger001 5y ago
I read this and cant help but think this man a highly irresponsible person. I generally approve of anyone modifying their own consciousness on there own time. And I get what he did ended up harmless and even beneficial, but if you are going to experiment with psychoactive pharmaceuticals, do it on you day off for your first ever does. This guy not only went to work under the influence of drug that he didn't know what the effects on his person would be but did so in job were he is directly treating other people at a hospital. I get where we come form here there is a culture of move fast and break things but maybe not when those things are potentially other people.
- cmiller1 5y ago
  It's Erowid, you can read reports from people on how every drug under the sun feels... they're all irresponsible people.
  - cammikebrown 5y ago
    Doing drugs doesn’t make you irresponsible. Caffeine is a drug, is drinking coffee irresponsible? I’d argue it’s more responsible to browse Erowid’s reports and see drugs’ effects before trying them out, rather than doing something and not knowing anything about it.
- hervature 5y ago
  Would you say the same thing if it was the person's first time with caffeine? Because Modafinil is a stimulant and used to treat narcolepsy, one could argue that going to work tired and treating people would have been more dangerous. I agree with you that he definitely should have done it prior but this is relatively low on my scale of recklessness. It is not like the effects weren't known. Just the severity of his reaction.
  - smegger001 5y ago
    Entirely different. Caffeine is a very well studied substance with widely known effects, it has been used for literally centuries by a sizeable portion of the human population.
whalesalad 5y ago
My personal experience was that modafinil was actually activated or significantly potentiated by caffeine. The stack together was like speed.
- travisjungroth 5y ago
  Caffeine seems to stack with every stimulant. In my experience, in a way that isn’t really nice.
  - asdff 5y ago
    It makes a great stack with a sativa however. The hippy speedball.
    - travisjungroth 5y ago
      That would be an absolute nightmare for me. I can’t stand cannabis and I doubt an elevated heart rate would make the experience any better.
    - znowcone 5y ago
      Of all stimulants, caffeine must be the worst one to combine with THC. Proper stimulants like amphetamine or methylphenidate on the other hand... A word of warning though, it's much more dangerous and my normal Wednesday (1/8oz weed and 40mg mph) can be your psychosis.
      - pram 5y ago
        Yes I agree, I once drank a load of coffee and did some THC gummies and it caused very unpleasant hallucinations and voices in my head. Also I couldn't fall asleep to make it go away :V
    - gkop 5y ago
      Speedball is a downer plus an upper, you named two uppers..
Trasmatta 5y ago
I sort of fell down the rabbit hole of nootropics over the past year, of which Modafinil is a frequent recommendation. I don't know if I would really recommend nootropics to the average person (because there is risk involved, and many of these substances have had very little in the way of human studies), but it's been an interesting journey. It was kind of a pandemic hobby I picked up. My favorites are Aniracetam and Phenylpiracetam. (Both have become increasingly difficult to source though, despite still being legal in the US.) On top of a stack of supplements (magnesium, vitamin D, zinc, and fish oil).
- symlinkk 5y ago
  Why are those your favorites?
  - Trasmatta 5y ago
    They provide a mild amount of stimulation, motivation, and reduce the barriers for getting into flow. I also notice a bit of a mood boost and anxiolytic effect from both of them. This contrasts with a lot of other nootropics that seem to increase anxiety and irritability.
- Loughla 5y ago
  The only thing that bothers me about nootropics is that so much of the conversation is about productivity. What a weird thing to focus on, especially when we're talking about un-researched brain chemistry impacts. The best combination I found was magnesium, ashwaganda, and green tea extract. It caused massively vivid, lucid dreams. I've never had more fun sleeping, and my sleep health was never better. It had nothing to do with productivity, and was literally just so I could fly and shoot fire out of my hands in my dreams.
  - gkop 5y ago
    Don’t tease us, what’s the precise recipe for “The Waking Life”? (There, I just named your cocktail for you)
burner556 5y ago
My experience is that it keeps you wide awake for a very long time. Highly potent. Absolutely no focusing activity for me like dextroamphetamine / amphetamine / methamphetamine. As a result ADHD treatment value is low. Gave me some nasty joint swelling rather quickly so had to stop using it. If I were to market it I’d call it “clean coffee”
- artdigital 5y ago
  > My experience is that it keeps you wide awake for a very long time. Highly potent. Absolutely no focusing activity for me like dextroamphetamine / amphetamine / methamphetamine. As a result ADHD treatment value is low. Same experience here. Went through a trial period of Modafinil with my doc. It's fantastic for eradicating any trace of tiredness, but it does nothing for focus
- mdorazio 5y ago
  Same experience for me as well - fantastic if I'm extremely tired and need to be awake and semi-productive for an entire day, but does basically nothing for focus. Not even remotely comparable to Adderall. Also like others have mentioned, you need to be careful about when you take it (as soon as you wake up if you want to not sleep like shit at a normal bed time), and if you take it for more than a couple days the come-down can be rough.
01100011 5y ago
If you're bipolar, you probably already know to be careful with drugs, but I just want to reiterate that it also extends to modafinil. I'm type-II bipolar, so it's not too severe, but I could tell the moda was making my manic swings worse. It was subtle, and I didn't realize it until I had a few significant(for me) manic episodes. Stopping it seems to have helped. I was a little worried about 'kindling' and causing a permanent worsening of symptoms but that doesn't seem to have happened.
Jamie9912 5y ago
I bought 160x200mg pills in 2016 and just ran out at the start of this year. Modafinil is fantastic in moderation, I take 100mg whenever I need to be awake for the next 12 hours guaranteed. For me, it's mostly just the anti-sleepy effect, with the side effect of extra concentration.
stephc_int13 5y ago
Tried it a few years ago. It does work. The feeling of laser sharp focus and high energy is quite pleasant and is clearly helping to work for long hours. But it ended up with a severe burn-out in my case. Not 100% sure it was the Modafinil, but retrospectively I think it made me drain my batteries a lot quicker. My advice, if you need to work a lot, the best nootropic you can get is good sleep, healthy food and a bit of caffeine.
- gunshai 5y ago
  I think it's best to schedule breaks and to set strict rules when taking modfinil. For instance I would not recommend taking it after a certain time period after waking up.
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  That's quite likely, because you do not have a clinically significant disorder that needs to be treated. drugs have a U-shape response curve, where those who are already at their personal optimal/best, will usually find risks outweigh benefits. Some even have nothing but side-effects, happens, but rarely.
elipsey 5y ago
Honestly, where does anyone even get it in 2022 USA without paying $200 for a permission slip, and then $500/fill? It's like trying to buy "research chemicals" in the 90's :/
- timy2shoes 5y ago
  You don't get it in the USA.
- chrisco255 5y ago
  Internet pharmacies probably.
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  There are sites that sell online the original blisters from India.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ipnon 5y ago
What's remarkable to me is that modafinil is less toxic than caffeine[0], and possibly even less addictive[1], but we all know which is illegal for recreational use and which is coffee. Regulations are sticky. The FDA follows the precautionary principle. Political game theory incentivizes restricting what the electorate can do rather than giving them more freedoms, and being blamed for whatever harm may fall upon them from their licentiousness. Reversing drug laws specifically seems to require both clear evidence of benefit, and widespread support from the public and media. This leads me to believe that modafinil will takes ages to be rescheduled. [0] https://www.gwern.net/Modafinil#fn28 https://www.gwern.net/Modafinil#fn28 [1] https://www.gwern.net/docs/modafinil/2002-deroche-gamonet.pdf https://www.gwern.net/docs/modafinil/2002-deroche-gamonet.pd...
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  Caffeine would be illegal to possess, if it were invented yesterday. 80% of people couldn't distinguish I.V. cocaine from I.V. caffeine in some study I am unable to locate at the moment, which I think involved Nora Volkow from NIH, either as PI or collaborator.
  - throwawayHN378 5y ago
    As someone who has done a lot of IV cocaine and coffee I find this hard to believe. IV cocaine is one of the most euphoric highs in the world
    - nate_meurer 5y ago
      Better than I.V. coffee you say?
    - Bancakes 5y ago
      Better than coffee enemas you say?
    - tomcam 5y ago
      Serious question. How do you deal with life when you aren’t high on IV coke? That state sounds so good I’d absolutely get addicted first thing.
ck2 5y ago
Note if you are a NCAA athlete or subject to USADA/WADA rules, Modafinil (aka Provigil) is strictly banned in competition. Don't destroy a scholarship/career messing with stuff without knowing the consequences.
ianbutler 5y ago
A friend of mine has used this before and they did alternating low ~30mg doses that same someone had previously used a similar dose Adderall in highschool and early college and preferred the feeling of Modafinil. They told me they had read multiple studies before hand as well as personal accounts (such as from the venerable https://www.gwern.net/ https://www.gwern.net/). That person told me that the feeling was less intense but enough to keep the significantly longer periods of focus without feeling complete lock-in like you might experience on other similar drugs. That said, they also did say the dehydration was heavy and to keep that in mind. They said the reason they alternated was they had found that given the longer 15 hour-ish half-life they felt effects strong enough the following day that if they dosed again it started making them feel uncomfortable. That said they are typically very sensitive to most substances. They also felt that you should do your dose early enough, 7-8am, so that by the time 1am or so rolls around you can still get mostly a normal sleep. They also told me that one time they had done multiple consecutive doses and the come down depressive like symptoms were just as bad as the same symptoms from coming off consecutive doses of Adderall. They thought that if you're prone to dangerous depression this one might not be for you. They did not endorse doing this but to each their own.
- snek_case 5y ago
  If you do want to use stimulants to boost productivity, it probably has to be a somewhat rare thing. I've had a handful of positive experiences with modafinil when I wasn't taking it regularly. There was this one time, I had a lot of work I needed to do but I kept procrastinating on it. I cleared up my schedule for an entire day and took modafinil in the morning. I started working and just did not stop. I was more productive than ever, all the way until 10PM. At some point during the day my mom called me and I picked up the phone. I had a normal conversation with her that laster multiple minutes, while putting together a graph for a presentation I was working on, and I felt like I was doing both things at once without any loss in efficiency. Normally, I could never have a phone conversation while also focusing on a work task, I felt superhuman in that one moment. BUT... I later got a prescription for modafinil, which I took daily for 3 months. My experience was that you build a tolerance, just as you do with caffeine or with any other stimulant. Initially, I would take it in the morning and feel very focused for most of the day. Eventually, the stimulation would only last until noon or so, at which point I would crash and get extremely irritable. I remember the guy I shared an office with telling me to "just chill" because I kept getting frustrated at a programming issue and cursing. I was getting super pissed off at really minor things. On top of that, there were also side-effects. It made my acne quite a bit worse and my hair much more oily. This is also typical of stimulants in my experience. I reached a point where there was zero benefit to taking modafinil anymore. It just made me have annoying mood swings, so I discontinued it, and went back to coffee, which I gradually reduced to just one coffee a day, and I felt a lot better. I haven't used modafinil in years and I don't really care to push my body like that anymore. My general advice for people who want to try this is that there is unfortunately no free lunch with stimulants. You can use them every once in a while to get an extra boost in focus and energy, but you usually end up more tired later, like you have to pay back a debt to your system. Even just taking a stimulant for one day will lead to a little bit of tolerance buildup. You'll probably feel slightly more tired and unmotivated a day or two or three later.
fortran77 5y ago
I love modafinal. I was able to get a legit prescription for it from a doctor for "Adult ADD" You are _awake_ but not the way caffeine or ritalin do it. You're not buzzing. Just _awake_. However, it didn't do anything for my ADD so I didn't use it for more than a month. For a while I used my remaining supply to de-jet-lag myself after an international flight. (Pre-pandemic, I'd do an international flight about once/month.) It worked well for this. I'd use it to stay awake the first full day I landed, then my clock would be fine.
zapdrive 5y ago
I experimented with Modafinil back in 2013 when I was working on a startup like project, where I had a lot to do in different areas (hardware, software, backend, frontend etc etc). Modafinil really helped me concentrate. But sometimes it was also a "miss". That is, I would focus on something totally unrelated to my project. For instance, one day I spent 6 hours comparing Vegas hotel room prices over different days of a month. The side effects were annoying, to say the least. Itchy ears and eyes, dry mouth, occasional anxiety, talkativeness etc.
visarga 5y ago
Sometimes it causes anxiety borderline with terror. Not worth it.
- throwawayHN378 5y ago
  Sometimes water causes death
  - visarga 5y ago
    It's just a data point, take it or leave it.
    - aaron695 5y ago
barbs 5y ago
I use modafinil occasionally if I know I have a lot of work to do that day, particularly if I'm low on sleep. I have to take it as early as possible, though, otherwise I won't be able to sleep that night until about 2 or 3. It gives me a focus and clarity I wish I have all the time.
idontwantthis 5y ago
Very effective, but quickly diminishing returns for me. If I do one pill a week, that day is awesome. But as soon as I step it up to 2 I'm overwhelmed and might even take a nap I wouldn't have otherwise. This is only 100mg. But the reason I stopped taking it is that I'm just a salaried employee. It doesn't matter if I'm super focused or not. I'm still getting paid the same amount. There's no point in artificially elevating myself.
- jimmaswell 5y ago
  It can pay off to establish a good reputation pulling through on an important tight deadline, but a situation needing that should be the exception.
bruhhh 5y ago
u need a prescription for this, u dont need one for coffee. thats a deal breaker
lgats 5y ago
see also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrafinil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrafinil
phillipsdesign 5y ago
I used to use this when freelancing and a big deadline was approaching, I found it very helpful. It felt like I could get at least twice as much done in a day. However I stopped using it after getting into a minor motorbike accident. Another motorbike was driving on the shoulder (pretty typical in Thailand) and I didn't spot her while turning at an intersection, even after checking both directions. The tunnel vision side-effect is no joke!
thesaintlives 5y ago
Mostly all true. I have taken modafinil quite a bit. You can buy it in India from a chemist for next to nothing. If you take it every day for a couple of weeks in small amounts the efficacy does get less. If you increase the dose you don't get more returns. Used sparingly for study or concentrating it is nice. It is also good if you are tired and have to do some long task that requires little but constant attention - driving or flying for example. Take as much as you need, do your job then sleep, all good. Piracetam is also to be recommended. Again don't do it all the time and be sensible. Smart drugs work but getting something for nothing is always tricky...
- tbdenney 5y ago
  This echoes my experience as well. I take 100mg modafinil on an empty stomach around 10am 2-3 times / week and I feel alert and focused most of the day with no problem falling asleep at night around 10pm. I often "stack" it with 200mg L-theanine and normal amounts of caffeine in the form of tea or coffee. The key for me is taking 7-14 days off completely every few weeks. I don't feel the tired / hangover feeling others have described upon stopping unless I'm really pushing it for some reason taking it every day for a week or more. IMO modafinil is way better than the ADHD drugs which make me feel super stimulated and awake but jittery and less productive overall.
  - thesaintlives 5y ago
    Yep. That sounds about right. Modafinil really works and if you are sensible and has not so many downsides. I had plenty and used it all up. Was about 40p for 50 tablets or more in India. 7-14 days off would be perfect. Ritalin was absolutely horrible, made me feel really weird. Moda just works.
Gehtio 5y ago
I'm taking Ritalin for years and it is super helpful. It puts me much closer to who I want to be than who I would be without it: Im much more motivated to do things I enjoy doing. I stopped taking it half a year ago because I started to get annoyed by my wife do to her slightly messines. Now I need to find the right balance. For me this is the same thing as glasses. We should talk much more open about such things. I do have adhs and hard sleep issues just as a side note.
filmgirlcw 5y ago
I took it for years alongside Dexedrine for ADHD, then my insurance stopped covering it and the cost for Provigil was prohibitively expensive (like $1700 a month), so I went off it. I think the patent expired so you can get a generic now, but unfortunately, getting prescribed it again in addition to the Dexedrine has just been more of a pain than it’s seemed worth. I’ve been able to get Nuvigil (very similar chemically and created for the express purpose of extending the modafanil patent) scripts easily, but it legitimately doesn’t work for me, sadly. Anyway, I feel like I was extremely productive on 400mg of Modafanil a day, and I understand why people have used it for nootropics.
bradhe 5y ago
I used Modafinil almost daily for a few years. It was amazing at times, and some of my projects' success I can attribute directly to Modafinil. One of the main downsides was (what I assume was?) the lactose they use as a binder (if you get the cheap Indian variant at least) wreaked havoc on my digestive tract. Over time I started to get panic attacks, culminating in a finaly, massive, life altering experience. I haven't touched it since. I don't think it was soley due to the drug alone--but it almost certainly didn't help. Modafinil is awesome, but it's not a cure for whatever underlying problem you have.
Ffonts21 5y ago
Modafinil is great while you use it for some specific situations, but it’s a bad idea to take one everyday. From my experience, doing even half dosage everyday made my body feel sick, my muscles were tense all day and overly exhausted. There are other drugs that are way better than modafinil.
- Mezzie 5y ago
  I think it's because of the long half-life: it's about 15 hours. I have over half a bottle from when I was prescribed it (for MS fatigue) and I can definitely still feel in my system after a day. And yeah, if I take it more than, say, 2 days in a row, I start having a bad time.
- davidwritesbugs 5y ago
  like ...?
scandox 5y ago
I found the errors in this text unnerving. They were uncannily glitch-like.
replwoacause 5y ago
So weird... I just had a dream about Modafinil last night for no apparent reason and then I wake up to see this post on HN. What an odd coincidence. I haven't thought about Modafinil in years but back when 'Limitless' came out and I was in my mid-twenties I experimented with it very briefly, along with a host of other "nootropics", but the risk of Stevens-Johnson syndrome put me off of it pretty quickly. It still shocks me when I think about how foolhardy I was to order this Rx drug from overseas.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  from what I've read, SJS is actually triggered by a number of different pharmaceuticals including paracetamol - it's more of a person-caused condition than a medicine-caused condition, if you get what I mean.
iammjm 5y ago
I've been using Modafinil daily for about 2,5 years and I am currently under its effect. I buy it online and pay with Bitcoins. I use armodafinil if I want more focus, and I use modafinil if I am tired. I don't take the full dose, which is 150mg (armodafinil) /200mg (modafinil)- I break the tablets into 4 and pop them if I feel like I am unfocused or tired. In the course of the day, I rarely take more than 1 full dose. For reference, I know of people who take it for narcolepsy who routinely consume 8 full doses a day (200mg x 8). For me it's been a clear net benefit without any noticeable side effects. I think it makes me about 20% "smarter"/"better", let's me learn and achieve more and generally improves my life.
- saganus 5y ago
  I had a friend that liked the effects of Modafinil, but would complain of bad headaches every time they took some. Even less than 1 quarter of tablet would be enough to produce the bad effects. Is that something that happens just to some people or is there a way to avoid the headaches? I'm curious about trying, but since I used to suffer migraines (not anymore fortunately) I am worried that I will have headaches or trigger a migraine.
  - iammjm 5y ago
    I suspect that his headaches might have been due to dehydration - Modafinil does indeed make me pee a little bit more/more often, but since I am drinking water constantly I don't consider this a negative side effect and I also don't suffer consequences such as headaches. But I am fortunately healthy, fit and relatively young (30) and only very rarely suffer headaches. Before I decided to use Modafinil I did research its side effects as well as potential risks and every couple of months I check the newest studies to see if new data came up - TLDR: some people indeed experience some headaches and/or nausea and in very, very rare cases some people experience pretty bad allergic skin reactions. But then again some people die of peanut allergy so... Modafinil has been there since the 70s, there are even some studies about its long-term use (10+ years) and its side effects and it looks pretty chill. I think the English Wiki Page for Modafinil is pretty well researched and a good place to start if you want to read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil
niepiekm 5y ago
Caffeine, cocaine, amphetamine... it all boils down to dopamine: https://podcastnotes.org/huberman-lab/episode-39-controlling-your-dopamine-for-motivation-focus-satisfaction-huberman-lab/ https://podcastnotes.org/huberman-lab/episode-39-controlling... Highly recommended podcast! https://hubermanlab.com/controlling-your-dopamine-for-motivation-focus-and-satisfaction/ https://hubermanlab.com/controlling-your-dopamine-for-motiva...
nfw2 5y ago
Modafinil had only major flaw in my experience, but it was significant enough for me to stop taking it; it made it very difficult to stick to a 24-hour circadian rhythm. To illustrate, if I got a full night sleep, then took modafinil, I would be up for easily 18 hours without feeling any urge to sleep...which seems great until it's 5am, and you need to be at work again in 4 hours. The apparent solution to the problem is just take modafinil again in the morning. This worked for a while, but there's a limit to how much modafinil can cover a sleep debt. While modafinil had a strong effect preventing the symptoms of sleep deprivation, it had an even stronger effect blocking the capacity to sleep. Modafinil can lead to a very strange and unpleasant feeling of desperately needing to sleep and not being able to.
- ghufran_syed 5y ago
  Some people try taking a smaller dose to shorten the duration of action
  - nfw2 5y ago
    Like most drugs, finding and sticking to the right dose is made more difficult by ever-increasing tolerance. I'm not saying there's no way around the insomnia problem with proper planning and self-control, but for me the easiest solution was just stop taking it.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- mdellavo 5y ago
  I was taking Armodafinil for a bit and this was my experience - it was too strong and would lead to insomnia for me.
- anonymousDan 5y ago
  Ha, I had a friend who had the exact same problem when writing up his PhD thesis. His solution? Take modafinil just before going to bed - he would then sleep through the first 8 hours or so and wake up fully charged. By the time he got to the end of the day it would be wearing off and he would repeat the whole process. He did that for about a month straight I think. Having said that he was a bit nuts in general!
HouseOfBagels 5y ago
Modafinil user of 4+ years speaking from experience, the benefits of this drug outweigh the risks and adverse reaction in my case. I was prescribed Vyvanse but quit it (flushed the remainder of the pills in the bottle down the toilet), I had to stop when I felt the clammy hands, cold sweat and heart palpitations. On top of that, it made me feel like a zombie. Modafinil provided me with the calmness to concentrate and ability to stick to something for hours on end without the feeling of depletion after hours of taken an amphetamine, with the only adverse reaction being a foul smell in urine.
benji_is_me 5y ago
Unlike most of the commentors here, I was prescribed Modafinil (200 mg) and felt no change at all from taking it.
bitcurious 5y ago
Just to have a diverging pov, I tried prescribed off-label modafinil for ADHD, because I was concerned about potential dependency on Adderall. It wasn’t nearly as effective as adderall, and it gave me a general sense of unease, like something about me was slightly off but not in a way I could pin down. Very uncomfortable. Ended up throwing away most of the bottle.
tvanantwerp 5y ago
I experimented with modafinil for a week once. Early on, it seemed great—I was productive and had a good mood. By the end of the week, I really didn't feel any different from baseline, and it was exacerbating my bad habit of clenching my jaw during focused work, leading to soreness in my face by the end of the day. I did not perceive the benefits to be enough to continue.
thatoneguy 5y ago
Modafinil is simply amazing for jet lag, too. And by "simply amazing" I really mean "the cure" at least for me.
PraetorianGourd 5y ago
Some drugs, based on anecdotes, are great. Others, based on anecdotes will literally kill you. Maybe there is a reason drug trials are not based on some Rando on the internet

209 points by ipnon 5y ago

Is this person insane? Four hours of sleep and six cups of coffee per day? Lay off the drugs and get a good 8 hours sleep.

ecshafer 5y ago
To give them the benefit of the doubt. They say " was dreading a lengthy day at the hospital", which makes me think they may be a MD resident, or similar with horrid schedules.
senectus1 5y ago
used to do this a lot. still recovering from it. I suspect my mind is permanently damaged in subtle ways from this behaviour. either that or 47 is "wind down time" for my brain
- the_only_law 5y ago
  Yeah this is probably not too far from my daily routine, except replace coffees with energy drinks. Though I oversleep significantly on the weekends (normally aided by the effects/after effects of shit that’s worse for my brain). It very obviously has major negative effects, but I just can’t bring myself to change it. I’ve tried once or twice, but I always return to this. If life was a little more flexible, I think I could pull off biphasic sleep and be ok, but when I want to sleep I usually have meetings and when I’m wide awake it’s usual the middle of the night (writing this at 3:25am).
  - senectus1 5y ago
    A bit like exercise you need to : a) be fairly rigid with it b) turn it into a habit. If you don't you're going to have burn out. not just emotionally but physically. I had a fit that the Dr put down to poor sleep and eating habits. It took me weeks to get over the immediate effect of the fit, I felt like I'd been worked over with a baseball bat. I used that recovery time to go cold turkey on caffeine (if I'm going to feel like crap i might as well have a good reason for it), I limit myself to tea only now, and only 1-3 cups a day. I eat a lot better and I go bike riding a few times a week. I get at least 6 1/2 hours a sleep a night, and aim for 7-8. its worth noting that while there is evidence for sleep debt, there is no evidence that oversleeping helps correct it.
maxerickson 5y ago
What's wrong with 5 cups of coffee a day?
- Flankk 5y ago
  Studies show that moderate caffeine consumption (2-4 cups per day) has beneficial health effects. Excess consumption is linked to adverse effects. There is an optimal dose when it comes to caffeine. Building up tolerance to where you need six or more cups is where you get into trouble.
  - TameAntelope 5y ago
    I doubt the studies show such a stark drop off at cup 5 that it's "insane" or anything...
- CrazyPyroLinux 5y ago
  Missing out on that 6th cup!
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    Coffee doesn't even do anything when you take that much of it all the time.
andai 5y ago
They work in a hospital. I hear 4 hours a night is normal in med school. If I'm not mistaken, that same culture of chronic sleep deprivation is also present in hospitals, so they don't seem like an outlier to me. Perhaps someone with more experience can confirm this.
- nnoitra 5y ago
  It's absurd really. Sleep deprived doctors with heavily impacted short-term memories are making life and death decisions for patients.
3a2d29 5y ago
Only partially related, but I am so surprised that lack of sleep seems to be normalized in the medical industry (or at least appear to be, I am not a doctor). I would think we would want doctor's brains running at 100%
- a9h74j 5y ago
  Just had a surgery. Was joking with the nurse that they will study the exact temperature for a warm air-blanket and every other variable, but will never study how much sleep a resident needs to get.

Fezzik 5y ago

I’ve wanted to try Modafinil for a long time but I’m too nervous to order it online. My doctor won’t prescribe it to me, saying it is only for extreme narcoleptics, though I think the real reason is that its street value is pretty high… because it works.

nkozyra 5y ago
Preface this with whatever caveats necessary: adrafinil is a modafinil prodrug which is unscheduled in the U.S. In other words, it's effectively modafinil in vivo. Secondary note: I was once prescribed modafinil for severe sleeping issues before I knew it had some street/techbro value (maybe it didn't then). My experience was not great. I only took it for three days and then stopped. I would say the effect on wakefulness was very subtle. I think I stayed up until 11 or 12 each night wherein I'd normally be up until 2 unable to sleep. I suppose the difference is I didn't get the late afternoon crash. However, I'd wake up at 4 or 5 with significant itching. To the point that it was hard to go back to sleep. There are some serious side effects to consider that are somewhat related to skin issues and when I reported this to my doctor he seemed concerned and told me to keep an eye out for another week. I just stopped. I've worked hard on sleep habits and it's gotten a lot better naturally. Intuitively, better sleep = better wakefulness/happiness/productivity, but we all tend to fight these uphill battles sometimes. We think if we just put in an extra few hours tonight, we'll be ahead of the game. But instead we end up putting in low-value work and being exhausted the next day, starting the cycle anew. I really didn't find much huge exciting value in my short foray into modafinil, though. If you can work on some natural sleep training or even 5htp/melatonin/whatever works for you, you'll be better off.
- zucker42 5y ago
  Adrafinil can be bad for your liver, which is a major reason to prefer modafinil despite the fact it's illegal.
  - nkozyra 5y ago
    I did a lot of reading into this after learning my old medication had become the cool thing to do, and the difference between them is largely overblown. Yes, there's slightly more liver metabolism involved but both carry warnings about potential liver damage.

kingcharles 5y ago

Also see this mothership of information: https://www.gwern.net/Modafinil https://www.gwern.net/Modafinil

jseliger 5y ago
Was coming here to post the same: Modafinil, used judiciously, is amazing.

brotchie 5y ago

Modafinil is a pretty amazing drug. The come down after one use isn’t too bad. But if you’ve been using it daily for a week, the comedown is BRUTAL: pretty much feel like you have zero energy and feel like laying prone for 8 hours. Once did 48 straight awake on it and felt wide awake 36 hours in… Distinctly remember the 1st time I took it. Was perhaps 8pm at night and I swore it was 8am in the morning and I’d just had an amazing sleep: felt completely wide awake and alert.

ei8htyfi5e 5y ago
I took it heavily in grad school. Prescribed off label for adhd. You can be in any state of exhaustion, take a modafinil, and an hour later feel like you just woke up on a Sunday morning after sleeping in. It’s nuts. The military uses it for fighter pilots. You can take it for days and only lose minimal amounts of reaction timing. At my peak, I stayed up for finals for a week straight with maybe 2 hours of sleep total. Don’t lecture me, I know. Anyway, it took 2 days in bed for me to recover after. Brutal. Towards the end of that time period, my brain stopped processing information in the 30 degrees at the edge of my peripheral vision on either side. We were at a restaurant celebrating being done and the waiter kept teleporting into view at around 60 degrees off my center line. Very startling. Done with it now since I don’t have anything nearly that stressful in my life, but back then, it was a godsend. Modafinil has a 15 hour half life so my main complaint was my sleep schedule was about 26-28 hours so I was constantly shifting. Adrafinil is only the active isomer in modafinil so it’s more potent. I didn’t like it as much. Even at a half tab it still kept me up longer than modafinil. Also modafinil makes your pee smell when it’s metabolized whereas adrafinil not nearly as much.
- marcan_42 5y ago
  Am I the only one thinking there is something seriously wrong with an education system if students have to resort to drugs that keep them awake for a week to succeed in it? I mean I'm not exactly anti-medication but... wow.
  - kfarr 5y ago

smegger001 5y ago

I read this and cant help but think this man a highly irresponsible person. I generally approve of anyone modifying their own consciousness on there own time. And I get what he did ended up harmless and even beneficial, but if you are going to experiment with psychoactive pharmaceuticals, do it on you day off for your first ever does. This guy not only went to work under the influence of drug that he didn't know what the effects on his person would be but did so in job were he is directly treating other people at a hospital. I get where we come form here there is a culture of move fast and break things but maybe not when those things are potentially other people.

cmiller1 5y ago
It's Erowid, you can read reports from people on how every drug under the sun feels... they're all irresponsible people.
- cammikebrown 5y ago
  Doing drugs doesn’t make you irresponsible. Caffeine is a drug, is drinking coffee irresponsible? I’d argue it’s more responsible to browse Erowid’s reports and see drugs’ effects before trying them out, rather than doing something and not knowing anything about it.
hervature 5y ago
Would you say the same thing if it was the person's first time with caffeine? Because Modafinil is a stimulant and used to treat narcolepsy, one could argue that going to work tired and treating people would have been more dangerous. I agree with you that he definitely should have done it prior but this is relatively low on my scale of recklessness. It is not like the effects weren't known. Just the severity of his reaction.
- smegger001 5y ago
  Entirely different. Caffeine is a very well studied substance with widely known effects, it has been used for literally centuries by a sizeable portion of the human population.

whalesalad 5y ago

My personal experience was that modafinil was actually activated or significantly potentiated by caffeine. The stack together was like speed.

travisjungroth 5y ago
Caffeine seems to stack with every stimulant. In my experience, in a way that isn’t really nice.
- asdff 5y ago
  It makes a great stack with a sativa however. The hippy speedball.
  - travisjungroth 5y ago
    That would be an absolute nightmare for me. I can’t stand cannabis and I doubt an elevated heart rate would make the experience any better.
  - znowcone 5y ago
    Of all stimulants, caffeine must be the worst one to combine with THC. Proper stimulants like amphetamine or methylphenidate on the other hand... A word of warning though, it's much more dangerous and my normal Wednesday (1/8oz weed and 40mg mph) can be your psychosis.
    - pram 5y ago
      Yes I agree, I once drank a load of coffee and did some THC gummies and it caused very unpleasant hallucinations and voices in my head. Also I couldn't fall asleep to make it go away :V
  - gkop 5y ago
    Speedball is a downer plus an upper, you named two uppers..

Trasmatta 5y ago

I sort of fell down the rabbit hole of nootropics over the past year, of which Modafinil is a frequent recommendation. I don't know if I would really recommend nootropics to the average person (because there is risk involved, and many of these substances have had very little in the way of human studies), but it's been an interesting journey. It was kind of a pandemic hobby I picked up. My favorites are Aniracetam and Phenylpiracetam. (Both have become increasingly difficult to source though, despite still being legal in the US.) On top of a stack of supplements (magnesium, vitamin D, zinc, and fish oil).

symlinkk 5y ago
Why are those your favorites?
- Trasmatta 5y ago
  They provide a mild amount of stimulation, motivation, and reduce the barriers for getting into flow. I also notice a bit of a mood boost and anxiolytic effect from both of them. This contrasts with a lot of other nootropics that seem to increase anxiety and irritability.
Loughla 5y ago
The only thing that bothers me about nootropics is that so much of the conversation is about productivity. What a weird thing to focus on, especially when we're talking about un-researched brain chemistry impacts. The best combination I found was magnesium, ashwaganda, and green tea extract. It caused massively vivid, lucid dreams. I've never had more fun sleeping, and my sleep health was never better. It had nothing to do with productivity, and was literally just so I could fly and shoot fire out of my hands in my dreams.
- gkop 5y ago
  Don’t tease us, what’s the precise recipe for “The Waking Life”? (There, I just named your cocktail for you)

burner556 5y ago

My experience is that it keeps you wide awake for a very long time. Highly potent. Absolutely no focusing activity for me like dextroamphetamine / amphetamine / methamphetamine. As a result ADHD treatment value is low. Gave me some nasty joint swelling rather quickly so had to stop using it. If I were to market it I’d call it “clean coffee”

artdigital 5y ago
> My experience is that it keeps you wide awake for a very long time. Highly potent. Absolutely no focusing activity for me like dextroamphetamine / amphetamine / methamphetamine. As a result ADHD treatment value is low. Same experience here. Went through a trial period of Modafinil with my doc. It's fantastic for eradicating any trace of tiredness, but it does nothing for focus
mdorazio 5y ago
Same experience for me as well - fantastic if I'm extremely tired and need to be awake and semi-productive for an entire day, but does basically nothing for focus. Not even remotely comparable to Adderall. Also like others have mentioned, you need to be careful about when you take it (as soon as you wake up if you want to not sleep like shit at a normal bed time), and if you take it for more than a couple days the come-down can be rough.

01100011 5y ago

If you're bipolar, you probably already know to be careful with drugs, but I just want to reiterate that it also extends to modafinil. I'm type-II bipolar, so it's not too severe, but I could tell the moda was making my manic swings worse. It was subtle, and I didn't realize it until I had a few significant(for me) manic episodes. Stopping it seems to have helped. I was a little worried about 'kindling' and causing a permanent worsening of symptoms but that doesn't seem to have happened.

Jamie9912 5y ago

I bought 160x200mg pills in 2016 and just ran out at the start of this year. Modafinil is fantastic in moderation, I take 100mg whenever I need to be awake for the next 12 hours guaranteed. For me, it's mostly just the anti-sleepy effect, with the side effect of extra concentration.

stephc_int13 5y ago

Tried it a few years ago. It does work. The feeling of laser sharp focus and high energy is quite pleasant and is clearly helping to work for long hours. But it ended up with a severe burn-out in my case. Not 100% sure it was the Modafinil, but retrospectively I think it made me drain my batteries a lot quicker. My advice, if you need to work a lot, the best nootropic you can get is good sleep, healthy food and a bit of caffeine.

gunshai 5y ago
I think it's best to schedule breaks and to set strict rules when taking modfinil. For instance I would not recommend taking it after a certain time period after waking up.
inter_netuser 5y ago
That's quite likely, because you do not have a clinically significant disorder that needs to be treated. drugs have a U-shape response curve, where those who are already at their personal optimal/best, will usually find risks outweigh benefits. Some even have nothing but side-effects, happens, but rarely.

elipsey 5y ago

Honestly, where does anyone even get it in 2022 USA without paying $200 for a permission slip, and then $500/fill? It's like trying to buy "research chemicals" in the 90's :/

timy2shoes 5y ago
You don't get it in the USA.
chrisco255 5y ago
Internet pharmacies probably.
xyzzyz 5y ago
There are sites that sell online the original blisters from India.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ipnon 5y ago

What's remarkable to me is that modafinil is less toxic than caffeine[0], and possibly even less addictive[1], but we all know which is illegal for recreational use and which is coffee. Regulations are sticky. The FDA follows the precautionary principle. Political game theory incentivizes restricting what the electorate can do rather than giving them more freedoms, and being blamed for whatever harm may fall upon them from their licentiousness. Reversing drug laws specifically seems to require both clear evidence of benefit, and widespread support from the public and media. This leads me to believe that modafinil will takes ages to be rescheduled. [0] https://www.gwern.net/Modafinil#fn28 https://www.gwern.net/Modafinil#fn28 [1] https://www.gwern.net/docs/modafinil/2002-deroche-gamonet.pdf https://www.gwern.net/docs/modafinil/2002-deroche-gamonet.pd...

inter_netuser 5y ago
Caffeine would be illegal to possess, if it were invented yesterday. 80% of people couldn't distinguish I.V. cocaine from I.V. caffeine in some study I am unable to locate at the moment, which I think involved Nora Volkow from NIH, either as PI or collaborator.
- throwawayHN378 5y ago
  As someone who has done a lot of IV cocaine and coffee I find this hard to believe. IV cocaine is one of the most euphoric highs in the world
  - nate_meurer 5y ago
    Better than I.V. coffee you say?
  - Bancakes 5y ago
    Better than coffee enemas you say?
  - tomcam 5y ago
    Serious question. How do you deal with life when you aren’t high on IV coke? That state sounds so good I’d absolutely get addicted first thing.

ck2 5y ago

Note if you are a NCAA athlete or subject to USADA/WADA rules, Modafinil (aka Provigil) is strictly banned in competition. Don't destroy a scholarship/career messing with stuff without knowing the consequences.

ianbutler 5y ago

A friend of mine has used this before and they did alternating low ~30mg doses that same someone had previously used a similar dose Adderall in highschool and early college and preferred the feeling of Modafinil. They told me they had read multiple studies before hand as well as personal accounts (such as from the venerable https://www.gwern.net/ https://www.gwern.net/). That person told me that the feeling was less intense but enough to keep the significantly longer periods of focus without feeling complete lock-in like you might experience on other similar drugs. That said, they also did say the dehydration was heavy and to keep that in mind. They said the reason they alternated was they had found that given the longer 15 hour-ish half-life they felt effects strong enough the following day that if they dosed again it started making them feel uncomfortable. That said they are typically very sensitive to most substances. They also felt that you should do your dose early enough, 7-8am, so that by the time 1am or so rolls around you can still get mostly a normal sleep. They also told me that one time they had done multiple consecutive doses and the come down depressive like symptoms were just as bad as the same symptoms from coming off consecutive doses of Adderall. They thought that if you're prone to dangerous depression this one might not be for you. They did not endorse doing this but to each their own.

snek_case 5y ago
If you do want to use stimulants to boost productivity, it probably has to be a somewhat rare thing. I've had a handful of positive experiences with modafinil when I wasn't taking it regularly. There was this one time, I had a lot of work I needed to do but I kept procrastinating on it. I cleared up my schedule for an entire day and took modafinil in the morning. I started working and just did not stop. I was more productive than ever, all the way until 10PM. At some point during the day my mom called me and I picked up the phone. I had a normal conversation with her that laster multiple minutes, while putting together a graph for a presentation I was working on, and I felt like I was doing both things at once without any loss in efficiency. Normally, I could never have a phone conversation while also focusing on a work task, I felt superhuman in that one moment. BUT... I later got a prescription for modafinil, which I took daily for 3 months. My experience was that you build a tolerance, just as you do with caffeine or with any other stimulant. Initially, I would take it in the morning and feel very focused for most of the day. Eventually, the stimulation would only last until noon or so, at which point I would crash and get extremely irritable. I remember the guy I shared an office with telling me to "just chill" because I kept getting frustrated at a programming issue and cursing. I was getting super pissed off at really minor things. On top of that, there were also side-effects. It made my acne quite a bit worse and my hair much more oily. This is also typical of stimulants in my experience. I reached a point where there was zero benefit to taking modafinil anymore. It just made me have annoying mood swings, so I discontinued it, and went back to coffee, which I gradually reduced to just one coffee a day, and I felt a lot better. I haven't used modafinil in years and I don't really care to push my body like that anymore. My general advice for people who want to try this is that there is unfortunately no free lunch with stimulants. You can use them every once in a while to get an extra boost in focus and energy, but you usually end up more tired later, like you have to pay back a debt to your system. Even just taking a stimulant for one day will lead to a little bit of tolerance buildup. You'll probably feel slightly more tired and unmotivated a day or two or three later.

fortran77 5y ago

I love modafinal. I was able to get a legit prescription for it from a doctor for "Adult ADD" You are _awake_ but not the way caffeine or ritalin do it. You're not buzzing. Just _awake_. However, it didn't do anything for my ADD so I didn't use it for more than a month. For a while I used my remaining supply to de-jet-lag myself after an international flight. (Pre-pandemic, I'd do an international flight about once/month.) It worked well for this. I'd use it to stay awake the first full day I landed, then my clock would be fine.

zapdrive 5y ago

I experimented with Modafinil back in 2013 when I was working on a startup like project, where I had a lot to do in different areas (hardware, software, backend, frontend etc etc). Modafinil really helped me concentrate. But sometimes it was also a "miss". That is, I would focus on something totally unrelated to my project. For instance, one day I spent 6 hours comparing Vegas hotel room prices over different days of a month. The side effects were annoying, to say the least. Itchy ears and eyes, dry mouth, occasional anxiety, talkativeness etc.

visarga 5y ago

Sometimes it causes anxiety borderline with terror. Not worth it.

throwawayHN378 5y ago
Sometimes water causes death
- visarga 5y ago
  It's just a data point, take it or leave it.
  - aaron695 5y ago

barbs 5y ago

I use modafinil occasionally if I know I have a lot of work to do that day, particularly if I'm low on sleep. I have to take it as early as possible, though, otherwise I won't be able to sleep that night until about 2 or 3. It gives me a focus and clarity I wish I have all the time.

idontwantthis 5y ago

Very effective, but quickly diminishing returns for me. If I do one pill a week, that day is awesome. But as soon as I step it up to 2 I'm overwhelmed and might even take a nap I wouldn't have otherwise. This is only 100mg. But the reason I stopped taking it is that I'm just a salaried employee. It doesn't matter if I'm super focused or not. I'm still getting paid the same amount. There's no point in artificially elevating myself.

jimmaswell 5y ago
It can pay off to establish a good reputation pulling through on an important tight deadline, but a situation needing that should be the exception.

bruhhh 5y ago

u need a prescription for this, u dont need one for coffee. thats a deal breaker

lgats 5y ago

see also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrafinil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrafinil

phillipsdesign 5y ago

I used to use this when freelancing and a big deadline was approaching, I found it very helpful. It felt like I could get at least twice as much done in a day. However I stopped using it after getting into a minor motorbike accident. Another motorbike was driving on the shoulder (pretty typical in Thailand) and I didn't spot her while turning at an intersection, even after checking both directions. The tunnel vision side-effect is no joke!

thesaintlives 5y ago

Mostly all true. I have taken modafinil quite a bit. You can buy it in India from a chemist for next to nothing. If you take it every day for a couple of weeks in small amounts the efficacy does get less. If you increase the dose you don't get more returns. Used sparingly for study or concentrating it is nice. It is also good if you are tired and have to do some long task that requires little but constant attention - driving or flying for example. Take as much as you need, do your job then sleep, all good. Piracetam is also to be recommended. Again don't do it all the time and be sensible. Smart drugs work but getting something for nothing is always tricky...

tbdenney 5y ago
This echoes my experience as well. I take 100mg modafinil on an empty stomach around 10am 2-3 times / week and I feel alert and focused most of the day with no problem falling asleep at night around 10pm. I often "stack" it with 200mg L-theanine and normal amounts of caffeine in the form of tea or coffee. The key for me is taking 7-14 days off completely every few weeks. I don't feel the tired / hangover feeling others have described upon stopping unless I'm really pushing it for some reason taking it every day for a week or more. IMO modafinil is way better than the ADHD drugs which make me feel super stimulated and awake but jittery and less productive overall.
- thesaintlives 5y ago
  Yep. That sounds about right. Modafinil really works and if you are sensible and has not so many downsides. I had plenty and used it all up. Was about 40p for 50 tablets or more in India. 7-14 days off would be perfect. Ritalin was absolutely horrible, made me feel really weird. Moda just works.

Gehtio 5y ago

I'm taking Ritalin for years and it is super helpful. It puts me much closer to who I want to be than who I would be without it: Im much more motivated to do things I enjoy doing. I stopped taking it half a year ago because I started to get annoyed by my wife do to her slightly messines. Now I need to find the right balance. For me this is the same thing as glasses. We should talk much more open about such things. I do have adhs and hard sleep issues just as a side note.

filmgirlcw 5y ago

I took it for years alongside Dexedrine for ADHD, then my insurance stopped covering it and the cost for Provigil was prohibitively expensive (like $1700 a month), so I went off it. I think the patent expired so you can get a generic now, but unfortunately, getting prescribed it again in addition to the Dexedrine has just been more of a pain than it’s seemed worth. I’ve been able to get Nuvigil (very similar chemically and created for the express purpose of extending the modafanil patent) scripts easily, but it legitimately doesn’t work for me, sadly. Anyway, I feel like I was extremely productive on 400mg of Modafanil a day, and I understand why people have used it for nootropics.

bradhe 5y ago

I used Modafinil almost daily for a few years. It was amazing at times, and some of my projects' success I can attribute directly to Modafinil. One of the main downsides was (what I assume was?) the lactose they use as a binder (if you get the cheap Indian variant at least) wreaked havoc on my digestive tract. Over time I started to get panic attacks, culminating in a finaly, massive, life altering experience. I haven't touched it since. I don't think it was soley due to the drug alone--but it almost certainly didn't help. Modafinil is awesome, but it's not a cure for whatever underlying problem you have.

Ffonts21 5y ago

Modafinil is great while you use it for some specific situations, but it’s a bad idea to take one everyday. From my experience, doing even half dosage everyday made my body feel sick, my muscles were tense all day and overly exhausted. There are other drugs that are way better than modafinil.

Mezzie 5y ago
I think it's because of the long half-life: it's about 15 hours. I have over half a bottle from when I was prescribed it (for MS fatigue) and I can definitely still feel in my system after a day. And yeah, if I take it more than, say, 2 days in a row, I start having a bad time.
davidwritesbugs 5y ago
like ...?

scandox 5y ago

I found the errors in this text unnerving. They were uncannily glitch-like.

replwoacause 5y ago

So weird... I just had a dream about Modafinil last night for no apparent reason and then I wake up to see this post on HN. What an odd coincidence. I haven't thought about Modafinil in years but back when 'Limitless' came out and I was in my mid-twenties I experimented with it very briefly, along with a host of other "nootropics", but the risk of Stevens-Johnson syndrome put me off of it pretty quickly. It still shocks me when I think about how foolhardy I was to order this Rx drug from overseas.

beaconstudios 5y ago
from what I've read, SJS is actually triggered by a number of different pharmaceuticals including paracetamol - it's more of a person-caused condition than a medicine-caused condition, if you get what I mean.

iammjm 5y ago

I've been using Modafinil daily for about 2,5 years and I am currently under its effect. I buy it online and pay with Bitcoins. I use armodafinil if I want more focus, and I use modafinil if I am tired. I don't take the full dose, which is 150mg (armodafinil) /200mg (modafinil)- I break the tablets into 4 and pop them if I feel like I am unfocused or tired. In the course of the day, I rarely take more than 1 full dose. For reference, I know of people who take it for narcolepsy who routinely consume 8 full doses a day (200mg x 8). For me it's been a clear net benefit without any noticeable side effects. I think it makes me about 20% "smarter"/"better", let's me learn and achieve more and generally improves my life.

saganus 5y ago
I had a friend that liked the effects of Modafinil, but would complain of bad headaches every time they took some. Even less than 1 quarter of tablet would be enough to produce the bad effects. Is that something that happens just to some people or is there a way to avoid the headaches? I'm curious about trying, but since I used to suffer migraines (not anymore fortunately) I am worried that I will have headaches or trigger a migraine.
- iammjm 5y ago
  I suspect that his headaches might have been due to dehydration - Modafinil does indeed make me pee a little bit more/more often, but since I am drinking water constantly I don't consider this a negative side effect and I also don't suffer consequences such as headaches. But I am fortunately healthy, fit and relatively young (30) and only very rarely suffer headaches. Before I decided to use Modafinil I did research its side effects as well as potential risks and every couple of months I check the newest studies to see if new data came up - TLDR: some people indeed experience some headaches and/or nausea and in very, very rare cases some people experience pretty bad allergic skin reactions. But then again some people die of peanut allergy so... Modafinil has been there since the 70s, there are even some studies about its long-term use (10+ years) and its side effects and it looks pretty chill. I think the English Wiki Page for Modafinil is pretty well researched and a good place to start if you want to read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil

niepiekm 5y ago

Caffeine, cocaine, amphetamine... it all boils down to dopamine: https://podcastnotes.org/huberman-lab/episode-39-controlling-your-dopamine-for-motivation-focus-satisfaction-huberman-lab/ https://podcastnotes.org/huberman-lab/episode-39-controlling... Highly recommended podcast! https://hubermanlab.com/controlling-your-dopamine-for-motivation-focus-and-satisfaction/ https://hubermanlab.com/controlling-your-dopamine-for-motiva...

nfw2 5y ago

Modafinil had only major flaw in my experience, but it was significant enough for me to stop taking it; it made it very difficult to stick to a 24-hour circadian rhythm. To illustrate, if I got a full night sleep, then took modafinil, I would be up for easily 18 hours without feeling any urge to sleep...which seems great until it's 5am, and you need to be at work again in 4 hours. The apparent solution to the problem is just take modafinil again in the morning. This worked for a while, but there's a limit to how much modafinil can cover a sleep debt. While modafinil had a strong effect preventing the symptoms of sleep deprivation, it had an even stronger effect blocking the capacity to sleep. Modafinil can lead to a very strange and unpleasant feeling of desperately needing to sleep and not being able to.

ghufran_syed 5y ago
Some people try taking a smaller dose to shorten the duration of action
- nfw2 5y ago
  Like most drugs, finding and sticking to the right dose is made more difficult by ever-increasing tolerance. I'm not saying there's no way around the insomnia problem with proper planning and self-control, but for me the easiest solution was just stop taking it.
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mdellavo 5y ago
I was taking Armodafinil for a bit and this was my experience - it was too strong and would lead to insomnia for me.
anonymousDan 5y ago
Ha, I had a friend who had the exact same problem when writing up his PhD thesis. His solution? Take modafinil just before going to bed - he would then sleep through the first 8 hours or so and wake up fully charged. By the time he got to the end of the day it would be wearing off and he would repeat the whole process. He did that for about a month straight I think. Having said that he was a bit nuts in general!

HouseOfBagels 5y ago

Modafinil user of 4+ years speaking from experience, the benefits of this drug outweigh the risks and adverse reaction in my case. I was prescribed Vyvanse but quit it (flushed the remainder of the pills in the bottle down the toilet), I had to stop when I felt the clammy hands, cold sweat and heart palpitations. On top of that, it made me feel like a zombie. Modafinil provided me with the calmness to concentrate and ability to stick to something for hours on end without the feeling of depletion after hours of taken an amphetamine, with the only adverse reaction being a foul smell in urine.

benji_is_me 5y ago

Unlike most of the commentors here, I was prescribed Modafinil (200 mg) and felt no change at all from taking it.

bitcurious 5y ago

Just to have a diverging pov, I tried prescribed off-label modafinil for ADHD, because I was concerned about potential dependency on Adderall. It wasn’t nearly as effective as adderall, and it gave me a general sense of unease, like something about me was slightly off but not in a way I could pin down. Very uncomfortable. Ended up throwing away most of the bottle.

tvanantwerp 5y ago

I experimented with modafinil for a week once. Early on, it seemed great—I was productive and had a good mood. By the end of the week, I really didn't feel any different from baseline, and it was exacerbating my bad habit of clenching my jaw during focused work, leading to soreness in my face by the end of the day. I did not perceive the benefits to be enough to continue.

thatoneguy 5y ago

Modafinil is simply amazing for jet lag, too. And by "simply amazing" I really mean "the cure" at least for me.

PraetorianGourd 5y ago

Some drugs, based on anecdotes, are great. Others, based on anecdotes will literally kill you. Maybe there is a reason drug trials are not based on some Rando on the internet