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My old boss Eric Carlsen used to say, nobody left because of money. They may get more money if they change jobs. But they start looking because they're unhappy

My old boss Eric Carlsen used to say, nobody left because of money. They may get more money if they change jobs. But they start looking because they're unhappy. So when somebody asked for more money, he'd start by asking what was bothering them.

mywittyname 5y ago
...If they are paid or have saved enough, maybe. I just left a job that I loved for a big raise. I have a policy of seriously considering applying for similar jobs that offer salaries well above mine. Turns out, I love this job too, but I get more money.
lkxijlewlf 5y ago
I don't think this is true anymore. Look, most of us here make good money. But look around, things are getting crazy. I think get what you can get while you can get it and sock away as much as you can.
artisanspam 5y ago
I changed jobs last year because I was unhappy that I wasn't making enough money. These two things aren't completely unrelated.
AlwaysRock 5y ago
Depends on how much money. If I can get 50K-100K a year more? (significant if you make under 250K annually) Then I'll probably look around even if I'm fairly happy.
shmatt 5y ago
Well, my landlord raised my rent 40% this year. So you better believe that made me start looking for another job It's nice to think an employees's world revolves around office culture. Until Bright Horizons hand you that $4500 childcare bill (food not included, of course) I could move to a lower COL city. But said job decided not to approve anyone moving to a remote location, we have to be ready for that return to office riiight around the corner
HEmanZ 5y ago
I quite literally just quit and my decision was 90% because of compensation. I more than doubled my pay, which completely changes the material circumstances of my life. Do engineers leave for 10% raises? Probably rarely. But for 50%-100% raises? That seems like a damn good reason to leave.
waffle_maniac 5y ago
If money isn't the issue then you won't mind us flipping salaries, will you, boss?
casralad 5y ago
I worked at a very large corporation that had a pay freeze for years. I didn't leave because of money, I just worked less each year. After more than five years of being underpaid, I was working only a few hours a week. Eventually I got laid off, decent severance. I miss all the spare time I had. I love my current job, but there will come a time when they are no longer willing to increase my pay above inflation (I suspect this year will be a test), and when that happens, I'll leave. Money is the only reason I'm here. Shockingly, I can keep myself occupied and amused without scrum, a non-technical manager, or Jira tickets.
oauea 5y ago
> he'd start by asking what was bothering them lack of money
sam0x17 5y ago
If you're married, you can see the hilarity in this.
dt3ft 5y ago
In my case more money is #1 reason for leaving. My job is just that - a job. I give my all while I’m working, and I expect to be compensated accordingly. I have a family already, I don’t look for another one at work. I keep it professional with a few jokes here and there. My comp affects my retirement, so I act accordingly.
mrkentutbabi 5y ago
I am happy at my current jobs, then a few of the big 5s wanted me to interview, so I interview. Once they give me more money, I will leave.
wanderingmind 5y ago
What's bothering me is the money you pay is not enough to cater for my expenses.
newsclues 5y ago
People whose financial needs are not being met, do leave because of compensation.
joe_the_user 5y ago
My old boss ... used to say, nobody left because of money. Maybe your old boss never worked for minimum wage.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  The only people I know who say that are small business owners trying to give their management employees a pep talk, but not giving them the budget to hire good people.
twojacobtwo 5y ago
I work at a company that pays on the low end for its industry and I have watched no fewer than 10 people (of ~50) leave in the last two years. When I asked each of them why they decided look for another job, they all said they were not making enough to survive/save long term and they needed more money. I have stuck around, despite the low pay, because it is otherwise the best workplace I've ever had and I like the owners, but I have also recently started looking because I need to make more money as well if I am to have a secure future. Maybe people do start looking because they're unhappy, but it seems like a cop-out to say "nobody left because of money", if the reason for the unhappiness is that they're not making enough money.
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minerva23 5y ago
I think the saying has lost its meaning when it's misquoted. Correct phrasing: "Nobody leaves because of their paycheck." Money disparity among coworkers absolutely can lead to dissatisfaction with the employer. Bad culture of annual raises can lead to dissatisfaction. Money disparity with competitors can lead to dissatisfaction with the employer. So, yes, people aren't leaving because they're getting a paycheck, but that's too pedantic, even for me, because it obfuscates the issue so much people misunderstand it and then misquote it.
runako 5y ago
This may be true where switching jobs might buy you a 7% or 12% pay increase. But in a field where switching jobs can result in a 100% or more pay increase, money itself can become a primary motivator. There are people reading this who make $80k that are doing literally the same work as someone else in their town who is making $300k or more. Maybe $80k -> $100k isn't a primary motivator, but $80k -> $300k is more of a "retire earlier" type of motivator.
quickthrower2 5y ago
“What is bothering me is i cannot afford a house in this area and my boss keeps dodging the pay question”
globular-toast 5y ago
Yes, this is true, but the money (or lack thereof) can be the thing making them unhappy. I agree in principle, though. Looking and applying for jobs is stressful. Attending interviews even more so plus it will cost you holiday. People aren't just doing this speculatively just in case they can get a better offer elsewhere. People only go through this if they are thoroughly unhappy in their current position, for whatever reason.
sokoloff 5y ago
~Nobody left because of money so long as the money’s reasonably close. This environment has made it so the money is often not close.
- dumbfounder 5y ago
  This. It's a different game right now. As an employer it's very hard to take everyone's salary up 20% because that's what they might get elsewhere. So you don't. So people leave. But this won't last forever.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    > But this won't last forever. I feel like this quote is relevant, if slightly off topic: "The market can stay irrational longer than you can remain solvent." i.e. You may run out of good candidates long before your competitors stop offering 20% more than you.
    - SuoDuanDao 5y ago
      Plenty of companies are offering 20% more for new hires but aren't willing to bump the pay of their entire workforce by 20% at once, especially since much of the workforce might not be looking. They still may lose their best workers, but they can ramp up to the new budget more gradually.
    - ljm 5y ago
      Give it long enough and something irrational will just become rational. Especially when people have only ever experienced the irrational.
  - NotSammyHagar 5y ago
    Ha. I've heard that for 20 years. And as an employer I don't see it ending soon. There's a boom right now, for sure, and wages are up, but I heard that in 2000 too. There was a slightly drop for a year or 2, but it's been steady upwards movement since then.
xwdv 5y ago
What’s bothering me? Everything is so expensive and I have so little time.
- edoceo 5y ago
  Sounds like a money problem.
bin_bash 5y ago
What a ridiculous statement, of course some people leave because money. They didn't get as big of a stock refresher as they wanted, they looked at levels.fyi, they asked a colleague how much they make, etc. Perhaps some people start looking because they're unhappy and then learn they're underpaid but I personally know many people that started looking because of money—not the other way around.
yardie 5y ago
If people feel like they aren't being fairly compensated they'll definitely leave over the money.
- gxs 5y ago
  This is exactly right and I think a good example of why we shouldn't generalize. I grew up poor - and judge me however you'd like - but I'd put up with less ideal conditions if the pay was worth it. Reminds me of in college when I was a waiter - I typically didn't mind a table's behavior if I knew they were going to tip well.
  - jermaustin1 5y ago
    > but I'd put up with less ideal conditions if the pay was worth it. They are called golden handcuffs for a reason. I think for the majority of people, they will do this. I know I will.
    - NotSammyHagar 5y ago
      The thing is, in today's environment you can almost certainly get more cash comp at another company, almost no matter where you are. The stock can hold you back. The new company will probably give you more, but there will be a cliff. Often you can negotiate for something like giving you the stock money you'd get in the next 6 months as a hire on bonus. If you worked at a company for a few years and they went ipo, that's a different situation.
celtain 5y ago
The first of my friends to switch companies recently may have had another reason, but the rest switched when they heard how much he was making at his new job.
quietthrow 5y ago
He is right but only partially. A lot of people are unhappy about the money they make. you can’t escape your environment where you see someone else doing better than you in some small aspect or area of life but then is generalized to them doing better than you and hence the urge to have more money. Most of the time things start from there and then the unhappiness snowballs to other areas of life
rr808 5y ago
That might have been true in the old days when competitors paid 10, 20, 30% more. Now some tech companies are paying like 2x, 3x, 4x regular dev wages and its a reason to dedicate your life to this.
- WestCoastJustin 5y ago
  Also, for folks who are renting. With the cost of housing going through the roof this is also a driving factor that makes people reassess location/job and if they want to be renting the rest of their lives. Cheaper location and 30% more can go a long way.
- deltaonefour 5y ago
  Its still true as a generality. I would say the majority leave because they are unhappy. Its very rare to get 2x to 4x TC unless you switch to faang, which is not the majority at all.
  - ta1642333313 5y ago
    > which is not the majority at all. It doesnt matter if it's the majority. It only matters on a per individual capability. I am capable of FAANG and thus to keep me my employer(s) must both give me work w/ high value and compensate me accordingly.
    - deltaonefour 5y ago
      We're talking in terms of the general consensus. The topic of this conversation is a POLL attempting to gauge that general consensus. You're switching the topic to be about you and your individual ability. You're obviously the center of this conversation. Good for you.
- NotSammyHagar 5y ago
  Explain what you mean by 2,3,4x more please. You can look at levels.fyi and if you are in a big tech see what the big companies are paying, that sets the market. In my experience the amounts of sometimes shockingly high, but eliminate a few crazy outliers and I see accurate rates. I'm a 20 year experienced principal engineer, and I see rates that match what I get. So what would 2,3,4x mean. Do you mean that much over your current salary, or over the 'market rate'. If someone paid me 2 or 3x my market rate as a principal backend infrastructure engineer, I would take it, but a year ago when I was interviewing, the offers from the big guys were not that different.
guessbest 5y ago
And that's how your old boss used to talk people about getting more money. Kids cost money. Mortgage costs money. Food costs money. And the biggest money trap of all is retirement. If you can't afford to retire from your current job, why stay?
hackitup7 5y ago
Unfortunately not true in my experience – the flow that I hear of happening a lot nowadays: * Employee is happy (enough) * Recruiter reaches out saying "we'll pay you your_current_comp * 2" * Employee thinks "hmmm that seems **ing crazy, I wonder what's going on" * Checks resources like levels.fyi or their network and realizes that they could _theoretically_ make (current_comp * 1.5), and probably pretty easily make (current_comp * 1.5) * This leads to bitterness in some cases, or frank discussions of how to get paid more in others I don't necessarily think that this is a bad thing fwiw but it requires employers to anticipate comp issues as benchmarks change.
diob 5y ago
I think the old generation really bought into this, but the new generation knows it's a load of bull. The poll makes it pretty obvious that compensation is the biggest reason folks leave, and it's the thinking of the old generation who doesn't know how to retain talent (they do, but they keep throwing pizza parties / sending out merch instead). It's a real "it can't be helped" mentality around retention.
- HideousKojima 5y ago
  Strong disagree for me. I'm starting a new job in less than two weeks, but the current job I'm leaving has been the best so far in my career. Wasn't perfect by any means but it exceeded most of my expectations by far. My new job is paying 60% more than my current job, that's my reason for switching and not much else.
  - Osiris 5y ago
    If you were so happy why did you start looking for another job? People don't leave because someone gave them an offer out of the blue. They have to start looking in the first place and whatever triggered that search is what's important.
    - j4yav 5y ago
      Recruiters are constantly contacting people these days. Some companies have reputations for paying well, so when you hear from them you sort of know what is coming.
    - hiq 5y ago
      > why did you start looking for another job? I can think of the following, and there are probably others: 1. To know your market value so that you know what to ask for during your compensation review at your current company. 2. To practice interviewing skills when you don't need them, so that it's easier when you do 3. To network and learn about companies that might be relevant for you in the future (as in, you wouldn't accept an offer now, but if it looks nice you might apply again later, and if it doesn't you might consider it only as a last resort). 2. especially makes sense for coding interviews, and I've been advising the following to a few friends: ideally, one year before you actually want to apply, apply everywhere you can with such interviews. Your results won't matter anyway, you'll be able to apply again one year after, but you'll get a lot of real-world practice and an idea of what you might want to work on.
baskethead 5y ago
I've left jobs I was happy at for more 20% more money. And ended up just as happy.
- Maximus9000 5y ago
  Me too. I left for 25% more money. I'm also still just as happy. Both my new company and old company are excellent places to work.
btgeekboy 5y ago
I'm quite happy with the work environment of my current job. But I bet I can earn more money, so I'm interviewing. I'm specifically only applying to companies I'd really like to work for, though - I'm not trying to keep myself afloat. After all, why not? It's not like you have to take a day or two off to potentially fly out for the on-site these days. It's been years since I played the interview game, so I need to keep my skills sharp. And if I get a better offer at a company I'd like to work for, why not take it? If the offer's not better, I can politely decline.
lapsedacademic 5y ago
Is that true anymore? Everyone I know is always on the job market, even folks who haven't jumped employers in 10+ years are regularly in idle conversation with the job market. But, the honest answer to your boss's question: what bothers me is trading my time for money. My comp doubled. I can now afford to stop working in 3-5 years instead of 10+ years. I think this attitude has become much more common in the last 5-10 years.
- greedo 5y ago
  I think this is something that varies with age. At 30, I was very aggressive in seeking better pay and more interesting opportunities. 20+ years later, I'm pretty much near the peak of my salary band in my region, and the work and environment is good enough to stay. I also have the typical roots put down; home, friends familiarity with my community. Disrupting that would be very stressful and the rewards would have to be commensurate. So why would I bother jumping to a new job for a 10% increase? I think the Great Resignation is really for industries that have had stereotypically low compensation, coupled with shitty environments. And I'm glad that people in those industries have a lot more leverage to make things better for themselves.
  - warcher 5y ago
    Hard disagree there: remote is opening coastal salary bands up to people outside the coasts. This is apocalyptic. People in the bay are way way way better paid, and not really that much better (they all came from someplace else, remember? Y’all didn’t get every good dev in Kansas, just the ones that wanted to move.)
    - greedo 5y ago
      You're assuming my pay is markedly lower (for my role) than what I'd make on one of the coasts. It might be 10-15% lower, but not enough to compensate for shifting teams, getting accustomed to a new company/boss etc. Now if someone offers me 2x/3x?
      - 5y ago
Aaronstotle 5y ago
I would leave any job if the competition offers a significant raise. I don't think this attitude is very prevalent nowadays.
CodeMage 5y ago
Honest question: did he say how often the answer was "I need more money"? Most of the times I changed jobs, it was for reasons not related to money, but there was this one time that I actually needed more and ended up leaving because of that. Ironically, it was one of the best jobs I ever had, but you can't actually pay for your newborn's healthcare with job satisfaction.
geofft 5y ago
I think this may only be technically true in a way that is unhelpful as a model for either employers or employees, and I'm not sure it's still true in the current day. The immediate thing that caused me to start looking for a new job, most recently, was that I had a performance review / bonus conversation that went poorly (for me). It's a little hard to distinguish whether the thing that made me unhappy was getting the feedback of "We don't value the things you want to do with your career" or getting the feedback of "and, therefore, we will dock your pay." (In fairness to them, it's not clear the things I wanted to do with my career were in fact valuable to them.) However, once I started looking, I discovered I was being seriously underpaid, and I really should have already been looking for new jobs. There's just a bootstrapping problem here - you don't know your market value until you start getting offers, and you have to start looking in order to start getting offers. With new norms about talking about pay (this very website is a good spot, for software engineers) and sites like levels.fyi, I suspect I would have come to this conclusion a little earlier, on the basis of money. It's hard to estimate your market value but you now have a better idea of what the ballpark is. (I suppose the other option is to continually be "looking," whether or not you have an active desire to leave. I know some people do that. But I personally find that exhausting.)
jzb 5y ago
That's a pervasive story that lots of people want to be true, but I can tell you firsthand it's not something you should bank on. I've definitely left jobs because money and only money. I've definitely watched co-workers and friends do the same. There's definitely a ratio of job satisfaction / money where more money won't cancel out a toxic work environment (there's no reasonable amount of money that would persuade me to work for certain companies or return to certain jobs) -- but generally, I'm in it for the money. That's why it's a job and not a hobby. I got a mortgage, a family, and retirement to think about. I generally write off my work hours as an investment in those things. If I start a salary conversation with my manager about more money and they rejoin with "what's bothering you?" that's not gonna go well. Now I want more money and you're being dismissive about it.
- pm90 5y ago
  A thing that has contributed to this is that public company executives are required to disclose their compensation. So it becomes really easy for employees to know if they’re being shafted if execs are being given a ton of rewards while their own salary is frozen.
- spamizbad 5y ago
  I think its more like nobody is leaving jobs just to paltry 5-10% pay bumps. Naturally people are far more likely to leave if we're talking like a 20% or more bump, even if they're satisfied where they are.
- meddlin 5y ago
  Yep, gotta agree. I picked up and moved 500 miles because of money. Sure, ATX is a tech hub and all that jazz. I moved from a place where top-end after 10 years was $80k-100k/yr, and there were few jobs to pick from. I moved and got 2.5x's my old salary. Now I'm looking at starting my own thing and moving back. Why? Because money. (real estate) Yes, family would be close again. But when comparable homes are $600k vs. $275k...c'mon, I'm ready for these tech hubs to not be as necessary.
- NotSammyHagar 5y ago
  You can answer this with a little more nuance as a manager. I'd say "Let's talk about that, and also talk about what might be bothering you about working here". As others have said, for some people it's about money (need more or you are way underpaid), or you have things you hate about your job. When you've got 10 or 15 years exp as a dev in the big tech cities, in my experience you expect to be paid market rates as an automatic thing but also you accumulate money over your career so it gets to be less important; I at least far more want more interesting work and no shitty work relationships wrt boss or time expectations. Being paid market rate is just the start, and that's easier to clarify. It's much much harder to know about the work situations you will be going into. I'm currently thinking of quitting my job after my 1 year stock comes in. My company is way over-working me and although I'm well paid in a sense at market rates, the job is not what I thought I was getting when I came there. I really struggled with how to answer my peers when they ask me about working there. I gave a mostly neutral recommendation.
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subsubzero 5y ago
*nobody who was well compensated left their role due to money. If I can leave my job right now and make 30% more than my current salary for doing the same work as my current company is only giving out 3%-4% a year max pay increases than I am a fool for staying.
agumonkey 5y ago
The sociological aspects are always prime to me. When I find a rhythm, a place and a group, a lot of my minds goes relaxed. Even if the job is boring, even if the pay is lame. And yeah every time you get sad or suffering at your job you get the reflex to want to be compensated for the pain. Or you can even think of sabotaging the place a bit. I actually left a fake job paid very well because of the toxicity.
xibalba 5y ago
A former boss of mine said something similar: "People don't quit a company, they quit their manager."
- reedjosh 5y ago
  > Former boss ...
- rgj 5y ago
  I had an employee who used to tell me: “there are only two people in my life that I have explicitly chosen to be with: my wife - and you”
- david-gpu 5y ago
  People quit for all sorts of reasons. I really liked my managers at Qualcomm (Rick Hammerstone and Edu Metz), but NVidia came along and I had always wanted to see how they managed to be so dominant in the industry. There were other reasons for me to quit, but my managers definitely weren't one.
- eatbitseveryday 5y ago
  True for me in one situation. Worked for a large corporation and could not find any lateral movement within, either. Had to leave the entire company because I was growing frustrated (after too long - 1.5 years) with my manager appeasing his bosses at the expense of focusing on the career growth (learning, responsibility, impact) of his direct reports.
pnathan 5y ago
A review of the housing market should disabuse one of this notion in a very big hurry. Sure, after a point, it's not about the money.
dbish 5y ago
This is simply not true in many cases I’ve seen and experienced first hand. There are a lot of interesting problems and people to work with, many times the pay is the final deal breaker or maker when deciding between options (and when deciding to leave).
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helen___keller 5y ago
To examine this a different way: I have not ever gone a year in this industry without having to deal with some bullshit that made me annoyed / frustrated for multiple weeks. But when my pay is good, I am much more likely to push through the bullshit and get back to the good stuff. When the pay is bad, I start thinking about touching up the resume and sending it around. The corollary is that if I know I’m severely underpaid, I’ll probably be out the door within a year even if I am mostly content with the job. I’m 7 years into my career and this corollary has proven correct for 3 job changes now.
ThrowAway5483 5y ago
I just left my job at one FAANG for another FAANG. I felt like I was under-compensated and talked to my manager, they said "well, go get another offer and show you're worth more". I went and got an offer that was nearly 60% higher and at a higher ladder level. My manager and director tried to retain me, but upper management "did not want to play that game", which I guess is a nice way of saying I'm not worth that much to the company. I did get a nice raise and a big bonus and a big refresher but it wasn't anything near the other offer. Now, I kinda liked my job and team - but TBH it wasn't the most amazing role ever - let's say it was 7.5/10. If all things were equal or the difference was insignificant I would have stayed probably. I wonder how much I would need to love my job to have stayed regardless of having such a higher offer.
- mcv 5y ago
  This time, upper management was right and your manager was a fool. Once you have another offer, you're already halfway out the door. Encouraging employees to find other offers before they get a raise is encouraging employees to leave. If you want to keep them, just give them the raise.
  - oblio 5y ago
    The direct manager probably couldn't do that and he was blunt about what kind of proof he needed to show up the line to get upper management moving. It's just that the offer received was above anything allowed from the top level.
tlogan 5y ago
Maybe that was true in old days when jobs also give you some security. Covid proved that there is no “job security”: as soon as your employee runs into a little bit of revenue trouble, the lay offs will start. So money is very very important.
karaterobot 5y ago
People leave some jobs because of money: low paying jobs, generally. But I think this statement is more correct than not. If people are quitting successive jobs for incremental pay raises, it probably means they hate things other than their salary, but don't believe those things are going to improve.
whoomp12342 5y ago
well, if you are massively underpaid... you will leave just for money
jokethrowaway 5y ago
In the past when people where spending 15 years in a company and the market was less competitive, yes. Job hopping is the new default for engineers, most people after a few years in the industry realise their value goes up every once and then and that they can leverage that to get a salary bump.
- chasd00 5y ago
  below the age of 35-40, i don't feel like you should stay at one job more than 2-3 years. How do you know what's out there if you're not trying other things out? Once you've been around the block a few times it's then time to settle down, dig in, and drain as much cash to your checking account as possible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem
4ec0755f5522 5y ago
Yeaaaahhhh no. People leave because of money. People are leaving for money. And they would be stupid not to. Because companies have no loyalty. You are a human resource to be used up like any other. Like gasoline. The second they can save a few pennies this quarter you are gone. People used to stay for their pension. No pensions now. You have to fund your own retirement and that takes money. I run my personal finances like a business. Whenever companies say "we're a family" or "we don't want someone only focused on money" I hear "we only hire morons". I an cognizant of cashflow, taxes, I'm very heavily invested and I take all of it very, very seriously in terms of structure, diversification, opportunity, tax efficiency, profits. Like any business should! Income is my biggest revenue stream and therefore the most important factor for my success a/k/a the success of my business (which is me). If I leave I'm leaving for money. My relationship with my employer is a business one. I don't understand why managers / HR think it's some kind of therapy one. Your manager wants to talk about feelings? I don't write contracts for fun and friendship, they are for business and employment is a business relationship. I have an actual life that I am living and this business relationship is about money it is absolutely not my whole life and I'm more than happy to take my skills elsewhere for more. I cannot fathom someone getting so wrapped up in their job as their identity that they literally pay money to the company to do it (by staying in a lower-paying position) but I guess it can happen, e.g. people go work for Apple which notoriously underpays as well as being kind of a poor work environment, but people still flock to them due to brand reputation. I don't have feelings about the companies I work for. I have strong feelings about the code I write, I strive for highest possible quality given the constraints. But who I am is the person who writes that kind of code, not who I write it for.
tonmoy 5y ago
That doesn’t make any sense for my case. I always kept talking with recruiters just to see what’s available and as soon as there was a chance for a significant raise I took it
sodapopcan 5y ago
I recently left because of money. I loved where I was at but I'm 40, I don't have a partner, and I want to buy a house already. I'm Canadian and got a job with a US company which worked out to be an almost 50% increase, so nothing they really could have done, unfortunately. Well, I also really wanted to write Elixir professionally, and now I am! :) So it's not 100% true that it was all about the money.

mywittyname 5y ago

...If they are paid or have saved enough, maybe. I just left a job that I loved for a big raise. I have a policy of seriously considering applying for similar jobs that offer salaries well above mine. Turns out, I love this job too, but I get more money.

lkxijlewlf 5y ago

I don't think this is true anymore. Look, most of us here make good money. But look around, things are getting crazy. I think get what you can get while you can get it and sock away as much as you can.

artisanspam 5y ago

I changed jobs last year because I was unhappy that I wasn't making enough money. These two things aren't completely unrelated.

AlwaysRock 5y ago

Depends on how much money. If I can get 50K-100K a year more? (significant if you make under 250K annually) Then I'll probably look around even if I'm fairly happy.

shmatt 5y ago

Well, my landlord raised my rent 40% this year. So you better believe that made me start looking for another job It's nice to think an employees's world revolves around office culture. Until Bright Horizons hand you that $4500 childcare bill (food not included, of course) I could move to a lower COL city. But said job decided not to approve anyone moving to a remote location, we have to be ready for that return to office riiight around the corner

HEmanZ 5y ago

I quite literally just quit and my decision was 90% because of compensation. I more than doubled my pay, which completely changes the material circumstances of my life. Do engineers leave for 10% raises? Probably rarely. But for 50%-100% raises? That seems like a damn good reason to leave.

waffle_maniac 5y ago

If money isn't the issue then you won't mind us flipping salaries, will you, boss?

casralad 5y ago

I worked at a very large corporation that had a pay freeze for years. I didn't leave because of money, I just worked less each year. After more than five years of being underpaid, I was working only a few hours a week. Eventually I got laid off, decent severance. I miss all the spare time I had. I love my current job, but there will come a time when they are no longer willing to increase my pay above inflation (I suspect this year will be a test), and when that happens, I'll leave. Money is the only reason I'm here. Shockingly, I can keep myself occupied and amused without scrum, a non-technical manager, or Jira tickets.

oauea 5y ago

> he'd start by asking what was bothering them lack of money

sam0x17 5y ago

If you're married, you can see the hilarity in this.

dt3ft 5y ago

In my case more money is #1 reason for leaving. My job is just that - a job. I give my all while I’m working, and I expect to be compensated accordingly. I have a family already, I don’t look for another one at work. I keep it professional with a few jokes here and there. My comp affects my retirement, so I act accordingly.

mrkentutbabi 5y ago

I am happy at my current jobs, then a few of the big 5s wanted me to interview, so I interview. Once they give me more money, I will leave.

wanderingmind 5y ago

What's bothering me is the money you pay is not enough to cater for my expenses.

newsclues 5y ago

People whose financial needs are not being met, do leave because of compensation.

joe_the_user 5y ago

My old boss ... used to say, nobody left because of money. Maybe your old boss never worked for minimum wage.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
The only people I know who say that are small business owners trying to give their management employees a pep talk, but not giving them the budget to hire good people.

twojacobtwo 5y ago

I work at a company that pays on the low end for its industry and I have watched no fewer than 10 people (of ~50) leave in the last two years. When I asked each of them why they decided look for another job, they all said they were not making enough to survive/save long term and they needed more money. I have stuck around, despite the low pay, because it is otherwise the best workplace I've ever had and I like the owners, but I have also recently started looking because I need to make more money as well if I am to have a secure future. Maybe people do start looking because they're unhappy, but it seems like a cop-out to say "nobody left because of money", if the reason for the unhappiness is that they're not making enough money.

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minerva23 5y ago

I think the saying has lost its meaning when it's misquoted. Correct phrasing: "Nobody leaves because of their paycheck." Money disparity among coworkers absolutely can lead to dissatisfaction with the employer. Bad culture of annual raises can lead to dissatisfaction. Money disparity with competitors can lead to dissatisfaction with the employer. So, yes, people aren't leaving because they're getting a paycheck, but that's too pedantic, even for me, because it obfuscates the issue so much people misunderstand it and then misquote it.

runako 5y ago

This may be true where switching jobs might buy you a 7% or 12% pay increase. But in a field where switching jobs can result in a 100% or more pay increase, money itself can become a primary motivator. There are people reading this who make $80k that are doing literally the same work as someone else in their town who is making $300k or more. Maybe $80k -> $100k isn't a primary motivator, but $80k -> $300k is more of a "retire earlier" type of motivator.

quickthrower2 5y ago

“What is bothering me is i cannot afford a house in this area and my boss keeps dodging the pay question”

globular-toast 5y ago

Yes, this is true, but the money (or lack thereof) can be the thing making them unhappy. I agree in principle, though. Looking and applying for jobs is stressful. Attending interviews even more so plus it will cost you holiday. People aren't just doing this speculatively just in case they can get a better offer elsewhere. People only go through this if they are thoroughly unhappy in their current position, for whatever reason.

sokoloff 5y ago

~Nobody left because of money so long as the money’s reasonably close. This environment has made it so the money is often not close.

dumbfounder 5y ago
This. It's a different game right now. As an employer it's very hard to take everyone's salary up 20% because that's what they might get elsewhere. So you don't. So people leave. But this won't last forever.
- falcolas 5y ago
  > But this won't last forever. I feel like this quote is relevant, if slightly off topic: "The market can stay irrational longer than you can remain solvent." i.e. You may run out of good candidates long before your competitors stop offering 20% more than you.
  - SuoDuanDao 5y ago
    Plenty of companies are offering 20% more for new hires but aren't willing to bump the pay of their entire workforce by 20% at once, especially since much of the workforce might not be looking. They still may lose their best workers, but they can ramp up to the new budget more gradually.
  - ljm 5y ago
    Give it long enough and something irrational will just become rational. Especially when people have only ever experienced the irrational.
- NotSammyHagar 5y ago
  Ha. I've heard that for 20 years. And as an employer I don't see it ending soon. There's a boom right now, for sure, and wages are up, but I heard that in 2000 too. There was a slightly drop for a year or 2, but it's been steady upwards movement since then.

xwdv 5y ago

What’s bothering me? Everything is so expensive and I have so little time.

edoceo 5y ago
Sounds like a money problem.

bin_bash 5y ago

What a ridiculous statement, of course some people leave because money. They didn't get as big of a stock refresher as they wanted, they looked at levels.fyi, they asked a colleague how much they make, etc. Perhaps some people start looking because they're unhappy and then learn they're underpaid but I personally know many people that started looking because of money—not the other way around.

yardie 5y ago

If people feel like they aren't being fairly compensated they'll definitely leave over the money.

gxs 5y ago
This is exactly right and I think a good example of why we shouldn't generalize. I grew up poor - and judge me however you'd like - but I'd put up with less ideal conditions if the pay was worth it. Reminds me of in college when I was a waiter - I typically didn't mind a table's behavior if I knew they were going to tip well.
- jermaustin1 5y ago
  > but I'd put up with less ideal conditions if the pay was worth it. They are called golden handcuffs for a reason. I think for the majority of people, they will do this. I know I will.
  - NotSammyHagar 5y ago
    The thing is, in today's environment you can almost certainly get more cash comp at another company, almost no matter where you are. The stock can hold you back. The new company will probably give you more, but there will be a cliff. Often you can negotiate for something like giving you the stock money you'd get in the next 6 months as a hire on bonus. If you worked at a company for a few years and they went ipo, that's a different situation.

celtain 5y ago

The first of my friends to switch companies recently may have had another reason, but the rest switched when they heard how much he was making at his new job.

quietthrow 5y ago

He is right but only partially. A lot of people are unhappy about the money they make. you can’t escape your environment where you see someone else doing better than you in some small aspect or area of life but then is generalized to them doing better than you and hence the urge to have more money. Most of the time things start from there and then the unhappiness snowballs to other areas of life

rr808 5y ago

That might have been true in the old days when competitors paid 10, 20, 30% more. Now some tech companies are paying like 2x, 3x, 4x regular dev wages and its a reason to dedicate your life to this.

WestCoastJustin 5y ago
Also, for folks who are renting. With the cost of housing going through the roof this is also a driving factor that makes people reassess location/job and if they want to be renting the rest of their lives. Cheaper location and 30% more can go a long way.
deltaonefour 5y ago
Its still true as a generality. I would say the majority leave because they are unhappy. Its very rare to get 2x to 4x TC unless you switch to faang, which is not the majority at all.
- ta1642333313 5y ago
  > which is not the majority at all. It doesnt matter if it's the majority. It only matters on a per individual capability. I am capable of FAANG and thus to keep me my employer(s) must both give me work w/ high value and compensate me accordingly.
  - deltaonefour 5y ago
    We're talking in terms of the general consensus. The topic of this conversation is a POLL attempting to gauge that general consensus. You're switching the topic to be about you and your individual ability. You're obviously the center of this conversation. Good for you.
NotSammyHagar 5y ago
Explain what you mean by 2,3,4x more please. You can look at levels.fyi and if you are in a big tech see what the big companies are paying, that sets the market. In my experience the amounts of sometimes shockingly high, but eliminate a few crazy outliers and I see accurate rates. I'm a 20 year experienced principal engineer, and I see rates that match what I get. So what would 2,3,4x mean. Do you mean that much over your current salary, or over the 'market rate'. If someone paid me 2 or 3x my market rate as a principal backend infrastructure engineer, I would take it, but a year ago when I was interviewing, the offers from the big guys were not that different.

guessbest 5y ago

And that's how your old boss used to talk people about getting more money. Kids cost money. Mortgage costs money. Food costs money. And the biggest money trap of all is retirement. If you can't afford to retire from your current job, why stay?

hackitup7 5y ago

Unfortunately not true in my experience – the flow that I hear of happening a lot nowadays: * Employee is happy (enough) * Recruiter reaches out saying "we'll pay you your_current_comp * 2" * Employee thinks "hmmm that seems **ing crazy, I wonder what's going on" * Checks resources like levels.fyi or their network and realizes that they could _theoretically_ make (current_comp * 1.5), and probably pretty easily make (current_comp * 1.5) * This leads to bitterness in some cases, or frank discussions of how to get paid more in others I don't necessarily think that this is a bad thing fwiw but it requires employers to anticipate comp issues as benchmarks change.

diob 5y ago

I think the old generation really bought into this, but the new generation knows it's a load of bull. The poll makes it pretty obvious that compensation is the biggest reason folks leave, and it's the thinking of the old generation who doesn't know how to retain talent (they do, but they keep throwing pizza parties / sending out merch instead). It's a real "it can't be helped" mentality around retention.

HideousKojima 5y ago
Strong disagree for me. I'm starting a new job in less than two weeks, but the current job I'm leaving has been the best so far in my career. Wasn't perfect by any means but it exceeded most of my expectations by far. My new job is paying 60% more than my current job, that's my reason for switching and not much else.
- Osiris 5y ago
  If you were so happy why did you start looking for another job? People don't leave because someone gave them an offer out of the blue. They have to start looking in the first place and whatever triggered that search is what's important.
  - j4yav 5y ago
    Recruiters are constantly contacting people these days. Some companies have reputations for paying well, so when you hear from them you sort of know what is coming.
  - hiq 5y ago
    > why did you start looking for another job? I can think of the following, and there are probably others: 1. To know your market value so that you know what to ask for during your compensation review at your current company. 2. To practice interviewing skills when you don't need them, so that it's easier when you do 3. To network and learn about companies that might be relevant for you in the future (as in, you wouldn't accept an offer now, but if it looks nice you might apply again later, and if it doesn't you might consider it only as a last resort). 2. especially makes sense for coding interviews, and I've been advising the following to a few friends: ideally, one year before you actually want to apply, apply everywhere you can with such interviews. Your results won't matter anyway, you'll be able to apply again one year after, but you'll get a lot of real-world practice and an idea of what you might want to work on.

baskethead 5y ago

I've left jobs I was happy at for more 20% more money. And ended up just as happy.

Maximus9000 5y ago
Me too. I left for 25% more money. I'm also still just as happy. Both my new company and old company are excellent places to work.

btgeekboy 5y ago

I'm quite happy with the work environment of my current job. But I bet I can earn more money, so I'm interviewing. I'm specifically only applying to companies I'd really like to work for, though - I'm not trying to keep myself afloat. After all, why not? It's not like you have to take a day or two off to potentially fly out for the on-site these days. It's been years since I played the interview game, so I need to keep my skills sharp. And if I get a better offer at a company I'd like to work for, why not take it? If the offer's not better, I can politely decline.

lapsedacademic 5y ago

Is that true anymore? Everyone I know is always on the job market, even folks who haven't jumped employers in 10+ years are regularly in idle conversation with the job market. But, the honest answer to your boss's question: what bothers me is trading my time for money. My comp doubled. I can now afford to stop working in 3-5 years instead of 10+ years. I think this attitude has become much more common in the last 5-10 years.

greedo 5y ago
I think this is something that varies with age. At 30, I was very aggressive in seeking better pay and more interesting opportunities. 20+ years later, I'm pretty much near the peak of my salary band in my region, and the work and environment is good enough to stay. I also have the typical roots put down; home, friends familiarity with my community. Disrupting that would be very stressful and the rewards would have to be commensurate. So why would I bother jumping to a new job for a 10% increase? I think the Great Resignation is really for industries that have had stereotypically low compensation, coupled with shitty environments. And I'm glad that people in those industries have a lot more leverage to make things better for themselves.
- warcher 5y ago
  Hard disagree there: remote is opening coastal salary bands up to people outside the coasts. This is apocalyptic. People in the bay are way way way better paid, and not really that much better (they all came from someplace else, remember? Y’all didn’t get every good dev in Kansas, just the ones that wanted to move.)
  - greedo 5y ago
    You're assuming my pay is markedly lower (for my role) than what I'd make on one of the coasts. It might be 10-15% lower, but not enough to compensate for shifting teams, getting accustomed to a new company/boss etc. Now if someone offers me 2x/3x?
    - 5y ago

Aaronstotle 5y ago

I would leave any job if the competition offers a significant raise. I don't think this attitude is very prevalent nowadays.

CodeMage 5y ago

Honest question: did he say how often the answer was "I need more money"? Most of the times I changed jobs, it was for reasons not related to money, but there was this one time that I actually needed more and ended up leaving because of that. Ironically, it was one of the best jobs I ever had, but you can't actually pay for your newborn's healthcare with job satisfaction.

geofft 5y ago

I think this may only be technically true in a way that is unhelpful as a model for either employers or employees, and I'm not sure it's still true in the current day. The immediate thing that caused me to start looking for a new job, most recently, was that I had a performance review / bonus conversation that went poorly (for me). It's a little hard to distinguish whether the thing that made me unhappy was getting the feedback of "We don't value the things you want to do with your career" or getting the feedback of "and, therefore, we will dock your pay." (In fairness to them, it's not clear the things I wanted to do with my career were in fact valuable to them.) However, once I started looking, I discovered I was being seriously underpaid, and I really should have already been looking for new jobs. There's just a bootstrapping problem here - you don't know your market value until you start getting offers, and you have to start looking in order to start getting offers. With new norms about talking about pay (this very website is a good spot, for software engineers) and sites like levels.fyi, I suspect I would have come to this conclusion a little earlier, on the basis of money. It's hard to estimate your market value but you now have a better idea of what the ballpark is. (I suppose the other option is to continually be "looking," whether or not you have an active desire to leave. I know some people do that. But I personally find that exhausting.)

jzb 5y ago

That's a pervasive story that lots of people want to be true, but I can tell you firsthand it's not something you should bank on. I've definitely left jobs because money and only money. I've definitely watched co-workers and friends do the same. There's definitely a ratio of job satisfaction / money where more money won't cancel out a toxic work environment (there's no reasonable amount of money that would persuade me to work for certain companies or return to certain jobs) -- but generally, I'm in it for the money. That's why it's a job and not a hobby. I got a mortgage, a family, and retirement to think about. I generally write off my work hours as an investment in those things. If I start a salary conversation with my manager about more money and they rejoin with "what's bothering you?" that's not gonna go well. Now I want more money and you're being dismissive about it.

pm90 5y ago
A thing that has contributed to this is that public company executives are required to disclose their compensation. So it becomes really easy for employees to know if they’re being shafted if execs are being given a ton of rewards while their own salary is frozen.
spamizbad 5y ago
I think its more like nobody is leaving jobs just to paltry 5-10% pay bumps. Naturally people are far more likely to leave if we're talking like a 20% or more bump, even if they're satisfied where they are.
meddlin 5y ago
Yep, gotta agree. I picked up and moved 500 miles because of money. Sure, ATX is a tech hub and all that jazz. I moved from a place where top-end after 10 years was $80k-100k/yr, and there were few jobs to pick from. I moved and got 2.5x's my old salary. Now I'm looking at starting my own thing and moving back. Why? Because money. (real estate) Yes, family would be close again. But when comparable homes are $600k vs. $275k...c'mon, I'm ready for these tech hubs to not be as necessary.
NotSammyHagar 5y ago
You can answer this with a little more nuance as a manager. I'd say "Let's talk about that, and also talk about what might be bothering you about working here". As others have said, for some people it's about money (need more or you are way underpaid), or you have things you hate about your job. When you've got 10 or 15 years exp as a dev in the big tech cities, in my experience you expect to be paid market rates as an automatic thing but also you accumulate money over your career so it gets to be less important; I at least far more want more interesting work and no shitty work relationships wrt boss or time expectations. Being paid market rate is just the start, and that's easier to clarify. It's much much harder to know about the work situations you will be going into. I'm currently thinking of quitting my job after my 1 year stock comes in. My company is way over-working me and although I'm well paid in a sense at market rates, the job is not what I thought I was getting when I came there. I really struggled with how to answer my peers when they ask me about working there. I gave a mostly neutral recommendation.

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subsubzero 5y ago

*nobody who was well compensated left their role due to money. If I can leave my job right now and make 30% more than my current salary for doing the same work as my current company is only giving out 3%-4% a year max pay increases than I am a fool for staying.

agumonkey 5y ago

The sociological aspects are always prime to me. When I find a rhythm, a place and a group, a lot of my minds goes relaxed. Even if the job is boring, even if the pay is lame. And yeah every time you get sad or suffering at your job you get the reflex to want to be compensated for the pain. Or you can even think of sabotaging the place a bit. I actually left a fake job paid very well because of the toxicity.

xibalba 5y ago

A former boss of mine said something similar: "People don't quit a company, they quit their manager."

reedjosh 5y ago
> Former boss ...
rgj 5y ago
I had an employee who used to tell me: “there are only two people in my life that I have explicitly chosen to be with: my wife - and you”
david-gpu 5y ago
People quit for all sorts of reasons. I really liked my managers at Qualcomm (Rick Hammerstone and Edu Metz), but NVidia came along and I had always wanted to see how they managed to be so dominant in the industry. There were other reasons for me to quit, but my managers definitely weren't one.
eatbitseveryday 5y ago
True for me in one situation. Worked for a large corporation and could not find any lateral movement within, either. Had to leave the entire company because I was growing frustrated (after too long - 1.5 years) with my manager appeasing his bosses at the expense of focusing on the career growth (learning, responsibility, impact) of his direct reports.

pnathan 5y ago

A review of the housing market should disabuse one of this notion in a very big hurry. Sure, after a point, it's not about the money.

dbish 5y ago

This is simply not true in many cases I’ve seen and experienced first hand. There are a lot of interesting problems and people to work with, many times the pay is the final deal breaker or maker when deciding between options (and when deciding to leave).

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helen___keller 5y ago

To examine this a different way: I have not ever gone a year in this industry without having to deal with some bullshit that made me annoyed / frustrated for multiple weeks. But when my pay is good, I am much more likely to push through the bullshit and get back to the good stuff. When the pay is bad, I start thinking about touching up the resume and sending it around. The corollary is that if I know I’m severely underpaid, I’ll probably be out the door within a year even if I am mostly content with the job. I’m 7 years into my career and this corollary has proven correct for 3 job changes now.

ThrowAway5483 5y ago

I just left my job at one FAANG for another FAANG. I felt like I was under-compensated and talked to my manager, they said "well, go get another offer and show you're worth more". I went and got an offer that was nearly 60% higher and at a higher ladder level. My manager and director tried to retain me, but upper management "did not want to play that game", which I guess is a nice way of saying I'm not worth that much to the company. I did get a nice raise and a big bonus and a big refresher but it wasn't anything near the other offer. Now, I kinda liked my job and team - but TBH it wasn't the most amazing role ever - let's say it was 7.5/10. If all things were equal or the difference was insignificant I would have stayed probably. I wonder how much I would need to love my job to have stayed regardless of having such a higher offer.

mcv 5y ago
This time, upper management was right and your manager was a fool. Once you have another offer, you're already halfway out the door. Encouraging employees to find other offers before they get a raise is encouraging employees to leave. If you want to keep them, just give them the raise.
- oblio 5y ago
  The direct manager probably couldn't do that and he was blunt about what kind of proof he needed to show up the line to get upper management moving. It's just that the offer received was above anything allowed from the top level.

tlogan 5y ago

Maybe that was true in old days when jobs also give you some security. Covid proved that there is no “job security”: as soon as your employee runs into a little bit of revenue trouble, the lay offs will start. So money is very very important.

karaterobot 5y ago

People leave some jobs because of money: low paying jobs, generally. But I think this statement is more correct than not. If people are quitting successive jobs for incremental pay raises, it probably means they hate things other than their salary, but don't believe those things are going to improve.

whoomp12342 5y ago

well, if you are massively underpaid... you will leave just for money

jokethrowaway 5y ago

In the past when people where spending 15 years in a company and the market was less competitive, yes. Job hopping is the new default for engineers, most people after a few years in the industry realise their value goes up every once and then and that they can leverage that to get a salary bump.

chasd00 5y ago
below the age of 35-40, i don't feel like you should stay at one job more than 2-3 years. How do you know what's out there if you're not trying other things out? Once you've been around the block a few times it's then time to settle down, dig in, and drain as much cash to your checking account as possible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem

4ec0755f5522 5y ago

Yeaaaahhhh no. People leave because of money. People are leaving for money. And they would be stupid not to. Because companies have no loyalty. You are a human resource to be used up like any other. Like gasoline. The second they can save a few pennies this quarter you are gone. People used to stay for their pension. No pensions now. You have to fund your own retirement and that takes money. I run my personal finances like a business. Whenever companies say "we're a family" or "we don't want someone only focused on money" I hear "we only hire morons". I an cognizant of cashflow, taxes, I'm very heavily invested and I take all of it very, very seriously in terms of structure, diversification, opportunity, tax efficiency, profits. Like any business should! Income is my biggest revenue stream and therefore the most important factor for my success a/k/a the success of my business (which is me). If I leave I'm leaving for money. My relationship with my employer is a business one. I don't understand why managers / HR think it's some kind of therapy one. Your manager wants to talk about feelings? I don't write contracts for fun and friendship, they are for business and employment is a business relationship. I have an actual life that I am living and this business relationship is about money it is absolutely not my whole life and I'm more than happy to take my skills elsewhere for more. I cannot fathom someone getting so wrapped up in their job as their identity that they literally pay money to the company to do it (by staying in a lower-paying position) but I guess it can happen, e.g. people go work for Apple which notoriously underpays as well as being kind of a poor work environment, but people still flock to them due to brand reputation. I don't have feelings about the companies I work for. I have strong feelings about the code I write, I strive for highest possible quality given the constraints. But who I am is the person who writes that kind of code, not who I write it for.

tonmoy 5y ago

That doesn’t make any sense for my case. I always kept talking with recruiters just to see what’s available and as soon as there was a chance for a significant raise I took it

sodapopcan 5y ago

I recently left because of money. I loved where I was at but I'm 40, I don't have a partner, and I want to buy a house already. I'm Canadian and got a job with a US company which worked out to be an almost 50% increase, so nothing they really could have done, unfortunately. Well, I also really wanted to write Elixir professionally, and now I am! :) So it's not 100% true that it was all about the money.