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ADHD Accommodations Guide

• blindmute 5y ago
  I have yet to see any real evidence that ADHD exists separately from just having a poor attention span as caused by habits of attention.
  • alexk307 5y ago
    Clinical evidence? Are you a doctor? Have you been doing research into this?
    • blindmute 5y ago
      The clinical evidence that it "exists" is an interpretation of common grouped symptoms... There can be no real proof that it exists or doesn't, because there is no underlying cause that can be tested for. The diagnosis is just a description of symptoms, like a cough and runny nose. It's possible that there is a 'cough and runny nose disorder' which simply causes these symptoms with no other reason, but it's far more likely that you just have a cold. For the purposes of treatment, it's convenient to call these issues, that are all treated together in the same way, ADHD. But there is no evidence that I'm aware of that shows this is anything other than a symptom of poor habits and upbringing, symptoms which could be permanently fixed through lifestyle changes. Now, why do we think ADHD rates seem to correlate with lifelong access to the internet?
      • alexk307 5y ago
        > The clinical evidence that it "exists" is an interpretation of common grouped symptoms... There can be no real proof that it exists or doesn't, because there is no underlying cause that can be tested for. Incorrect. Here are 3 of many studies that show empirical evidence for physical differences in patients diagnosed with ADHD. - https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11682-013-9269-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11682-013-9269-5 - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.558.7056&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.558... - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5884954/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5884954/ > Now, why do we think ADHD rates seem to correlate with lifelong access to the internet? Because we are all connected constantly to a dopamine producing machine that exacerbates ADHD symptoms. You can't see how this correlation could simply be a correlation and not a cause?
        • blindmute 5y ago
          You misunderstand me. Changes in the brain happen from all kinds of behaviors. Some harmful behaviors can change the brain, and then removing those behaviors will change it back. ADHD brain is an explanation of the symptoms, but it does not constitute a cause. People with similar anything in behavior will have similar brain scans in some way. It may very well be the case that bad behaviors modify the brain and cause ADHD symptoms. This does not mean it's a disorder, or needs medicinal treatment, any more than obesity is/does. You can treat obesity by stopping the behaviors that caused it, or exercising, even when obesity has physical changes to the body and brain. This means obesity is a problem, but not a disorder. It can be treated without chemical intervention, and it's not an intrinsic part of the person's life. I have seen no scientific argument why this is not also the case for ADHD. I believe the current treatment methods for ADHD are basically the equivalent of treating obesity with cholesterol medications; that is, it's treating a second order symptom.
  • ZephyrBlu 5y ago
    If ADHD = poor attention span, how do you explain hyperfocus?
  • DarylZero 5y ago
    It has nothing to do with "span" though. It's not even slightly about the time spent paying attention. It's about the object of the attention.
• kova12 5y ago
  Such accommodations might also be quite helpful to people who do not have ADHD
  • toper-centage 5y ago
    Accessibility is for everyone. Everyone is disabled at least sometimes.
  • thomastjeffery 5y ago
    Just like wheelchair ramps and subtitles.
• colordrops 5y ago
  I've organically done almost everything on this list to be productive. Either I've got severe ADHD (which I've suspected since I was young, but have not been diagnosed), or these techniques are valuable to anyone.
  • gumby 5y ago
    That’s one of the great things about the ADA: Anna compaction can help almost anyone. Common examples are crash bars and ramps, but this is an example of another group of accommodations with wider scope.
  • lazide 5y ago
    The tricky part - for most people they would be helpful. If you struggle to function as a ‘normal’ adult without them? Or spend a truly inordinate amount of time and effort compared to your peers doing them just trying to get to the point you're somewhat ‘normal’? That is more than likely ADHD (or something else, but a problem)
    • colordrops 5y ago
      I failed courses in college due to inability to focus. Can't hear what someone is saying directly to me because I'm obsessed with minutiae. Have definitely struggled all my life trying to pay attention and do things. So yeah probably ADHD, but no point in getting it diagnosed now. Almost 50, and have figured out how to be very productive and happy at this point.
      • pksebben 5y ago
        It probably is, but if you have it under control then it's not really disabling, is it? Good job getting there. You're just old enough that you likely had to manage without the social resources to assist, and that's no small thing.
        • thomastjeffery 5y ago
          The question is not, "is it under control?" It's, "are you able to thrive?" There's no sense in living halfway when the other 50% is available. The other issue is that many people with ADHD develop unhealthy coping strategies, which turn into depression and anxiety.
• bestcoder69 5y ago
  If you have ADHD are you any kind of protected class? AFAIK the answer is no (regardless of what the answer _should_ be), so as long as this is the case I'm not divulging s.h.i.t! me: I guess technically I have a disability imaginary boss: oh yeah is it one of <list of job-protected disabilities> me: no imaginary boss: well what are the impacts to your job? me: cant focus or complete tasks as good as my peers who dont have it imaginary boss: should be no problemo at all. especially when i'm in the big stack-ranking-by-another-name meeting later this year me: cool that's what i figured
  • cjbgkagh 5y ago
    My ADHD has a clear genetic cause. I did note that a recent unsolicited Facebook job application request listed accommodations for neurodiversity. I think ADHD helped me become a crazy good programmer, but I seem to have a harder time noticing or caring about other peoples feelings.
    • willhinsa 5y ago
      Not noticing/caring about other people's feelings might be some kind of autism-spectrum disorder comorbidity (from what I understand, ADD/ADHD and autism spectrum disorder occur together pretty frequently[0]) Not a psychiatrist, just wanted to mention it as something you might consider, that you or other people reading this might not be aware of. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4010758/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4010758/
      • cjbgkagh 5y ago
        I think people tend to get too attached to the medical taxonomy which has some clear problems. In my case I think the rationalization of emotions and the dismissal of irrational emotions is a coping mechanism that was brought about by hypersensitivity. Later on I had brain inflammation (CFS/ME) which inhibits emotional response as well a a host of other hormones. I now have effective medication, but I’d still rather not deal with other people’s feelings.
      • 5y ago
• xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
  The thing that most (if not all) people who have ADHD want is to be normal. This works against them, similar to other people with disabilities, in that asking for accomodations feels like admitting defeat. Like you will never make progress in your lifelong struggle. Like you have an incurable disease. While it's cool that workplaces can make such accomodations if requested, it would just be better for fucking everyone if these were available to everyone. That's the real problem with being disabled: you're treated abnormally. Sure, there will always be exceptions, but just recognize humans are not fungible, and be kind. Don't make folks lives harder than they already are.
  • axljjn 5y ago
    As someone that is disabled, I feel like you’re hitting the most important points, but maybe generalizing a little about wanting to be treated normal. More often than not, people have to accept the realities of their disabilities and not being treated normal is absolutely necessary for them to succeed. As for how to go about it, your last words are right on the mark. > … be kind. Don’t make folks lives harder than they already are. I’d add that if they don’t approach their manager/employer about accommodations, their superior should be very careful about how they offer assistance. It really shouldn’t be more than “Hey are you comfortable with your work environment? Is there anything I can do to help you be efficient?” And if they say no, that’s it. Say they can reach out anytime and you’re done.
    • colechristensen 5y ago
      “How can we make your work environment better?” is a question everyone should be asked from time to time.
      • deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  • colechristensen 5y ago
    The thing is that being ADHD is normal. Many people are just maladapted to the work and life style prevalent in city/office living. Instead of the person being broken, it can well be the environment that is.
• aspergsadd 5y ago
  IDK what I have exactly but it’s some combination of Aspergers and ADHD. I can mow through a lot of tasks and projects. When it comes to research or exploring some big problem domain, I can do that really well. If people leave me alone and give me some wide berth to go complete some massive project I can do that fine. Better than fine. I can do projects that 15 people together can’t do, by myself. I typically am able to develop an extremely accurate prediction of the future from the base technology up to the market. However. At this point in my life, it isn’t a matter of “if” I am going to get into severe interpersonal problems and fights with co-workers it is “when.” What has helped me is to have a small group of friends who I use to improve my decision making quality. Left to my own devices, I misunderstand and misinterpret people and this leads to war in many cases. I can’t read peoples intentions, I don’t understand peoples motivations, I can’t understand what “normal and expected behaviors” are. Once I get pissed off at someone, I stay pissed off permanently. That person is “dead” to me. This is apparently typical of people with Aspergers. My favorite analogy is this: “normal people have a wide variety of tools ranging from soft to hard in their toolbox. People with Aspergers open their toolbox and all they have is a hammer.” That is exactly how I feel. Once I lose my composure, I only have a hammer to solve the problem. This leads me to become highly paranoid. When people start annoying me or infringing on me, interfering with my ability to work on my own terms - I start building resentments. I get along really well with older people who have calmed down. Mid career managers and I do not have a great track record. My career has been a nightmare. A lot of great parts. The number one thing that protects me now is having a panel of advisors who have normal brains. Without these advisors, I am literally wandering blind through the land of the humans, unable to understand them. On the surface I often look and act normal, underneath the hood I am a genius and a mess. Working in the modern workplace has been a nightmare. I have come to realize that people like me don’t get to “win” in corporate. Sooner or later, they figure out what I am (different) and it’s over. Highly discriminatory against people like me. My idea of heaven now is not to be promoted, but to be left alone to pursue my interests where they align with the corporation. I tend to have a very massive positive impact at companies where I work. My ideas, creativity, research and insights result in massive wins. But other people always get the credit, never need. I am so misunderstood, it’s my lot in life. I don’t expect to ever have my abilities respected, noticed or rewarded.
  • 5y ago
• wombatmobile 5y ago
  This is a useful post, thank you. I have only recently become aware of what it means to try to work with someone who has ADHD. I’d heard of ADHD but I didn’t know what it was or what the implications were. Then, a project went terribly terribly wrong. I tried to make sense of it through empathic modelling of my colleagues circumstances, but this only made it worse. I was baffled by that, which is when I realised I needed more information about ADHD, because just placing myself in my colleagues shoes didn’t help when we were using very different thought processes. Without a model of ADHD thought processes my attempts at empathy were counter-productive. I’d try to put myself in my colleagues position in order to understand my colleagues feelings but because we have different thought processes this didn’t work at all. I think I’m seeing the limitations of empathy for the first time. Until I have a better working understanding of ADHD, articles like this with practical tips are my best guide.
  • jitl 5y ago
    Thanks for your post, I think you put this really well. Many friends/parents/co-workers in my life have tried empathy alone, and the gap between their empathy and my actions turned into conflict. The most frustrating is well meaning advice like “try using a planner” or “don’t procrastinate” (I’m struggling to come up with good examples here) which to me sounds almost tautological, like someone telling you “just remember not to forget”.
    • totetsu 5y ago
      I have tens of planners scattered about．XD
      • doubled112 5y ago
        Just use a list! Forgot the list... or where I put the list... or what list I needed...
      • ryukafalz 5y ago
        I feel seen. Yes, scattered around my apartment are many many once-used attempts at organizational systems. The trouble is I start trying to use one to remember things and then forget about it!
• throwaway984393 5y ago
  I have a problem of inefficiently over-working. I don't get enough done during the day, so I then pressure myself to keep working to "get something done". Anybody have a coping mechanism for that? When I was in the office I would try to "work hard until lunch", then break, then "work hard until 5", and then go to an after-work class, so I was forced into time boxes. That hasn't worked out so well remotely.
  • Swizec 5y ago
    Don’t have adhd that I know of but always find myself strangely relating to descriptions of it. The timeboxes you describe have worked best for me. I put them on my calendar and have the computer go “ping” when it’s time. And there’s always a workout scheduled after work that forces me to stop. Seems to work well if not better remotely because there’s fewer external distractions to disrupt my timeboxes. The problem with working late is that it just steals energy from tomorrow. Best to say “Fuck it didn’t get anything done today” and try again.
    • throwaway984393 5y ago
      For me, ADHD is a lot about procrastination, which is basically fear of uncomfortable work forcing me to do something else. I will reflexively open a new tab on my browser and auto-complete some distracting website (hello, HN!) 20 times a day. I have about a billion half-finished projects lying around the house. I finally finished some gifts for a friend recently after fiddling with them for over 2 years.
      • Swizec 5y ago
        Heh yes I do that too. Blocker extensions work a little but they’re too easy to disable “just this once”
        • LesZedCB 5y ago
          `sudo vim /etc/hosts` often not far up the history...
• treeman79 5y ago
  Severe ADHD. Best solution I had was tons of pair programming. A buddy helps so much for keeping me on task. Medication was amazing, but it causes severe Nerve pain. So gave it up.
• jitl 5y ago
  I have ADHD and feel very lucky to find programming so fun/interesting/engaging — if I didn’t love the job I wouldn’t be able to do it. I have about equal problems with under focus in areas outside programming like project management compared to problems with hyper focus when programming. I often end up so focused when programming that I won’t notice people talking to me until they wave a hand in front of my face. I really like Tandem (free app) for a single feature: it will auto-join Zoom meetings on your calendar, and it pops up a BIG bar at the top of your screen about 2 minutes before that slowly counts down. It’s about the only thing I’ve found that gets me into a meeting on the dot instead of 1-2 minutes late. To deal with project management shenanigans like tasking, backlog grooming, prioritization on projects I run, I find it really helpful to “force the issue” by doing a quick 15 minute collaborate re-prioritization session with my project group before any bigger whole team meetings. That’s been a lightweight way to “partner with more organized teammates” without someone turning into my perpetual minder. This is an area where medication helps me too; I really needed medication to get through most of college, but didn’t need it at all to advance from newgrad to senior at Airbnb. As the scope of my work continues to expand and project management becomes a larger part of my role, I’m resuming that part of my treatment. The other killer tool for me has been Notion (disclaimer: I decided to work at Notion after realizing how much it helped me). I used to “lose” a lot more work items when I needed to track them in JIRA; often I gave up waiting for it to load or struggling with the IT department locking down things like bulk changing issues. Being able to write up issues, brainstorm them, and then make fine grained checklists all in one place works a lot better for me then juggling JIRA and Confluence. The same goes for personal life tasks like tracking a job search, shopping for furniture, or indexing home contractors.
  • hsbauauvhabzb 5y ago
    I suspect I have adhd and am getting tested in late jan. One key thing I’ve noticed is that if I like something, I can stay attentive, with breaks, for 10+hours at a time. When I hate something, it’s difficult to even sit for an hour. Is this in line with your experiences?
    • AnthonBerg 5y ago
• u2077 5y ago
  I have so much energy but can only funnel it into things I’m passionate about. Those small boring tasks pile up and cause problems for me, despite the fact that I can work on other things for hours on end.
  • xwolfi 5y ago
    But that's probably not ADHD. I can focus on boring stuff for hours, so I suppose I don't have ADHD. But I have boring tasks piling (in fact I introduced my team the concept of cancelling BS tickets so we just don't do what we think we'll never do instead of piling it forever), and I can work for hours on fun useless things that never turn productive: so I think that's not ADHD, and I think your comment is just every human ever.
    • lazide 5y ago
      The question is - do they pile up to the point they cause distress, sometimes crushing distress, because no matter what, no matter how important it is - until you feel panic, you can’t do it? If they don’t really matter and meh, then that’s fine. But if they do matter, and no matter what you can’t do it? That is when it starts to become a problem. If that sounds familiar, then you might want to get checked.
      • u2077 5y ago
        That sounds familiar, in fact it happened to me this week. I’ve been thrown under the bus quite a few times by letting little things pile up.
    • u2077 5y ago
      I agree that everyone has things they would rather do, but I wasn’t exactly talking about useless things. Difficult or boring tasks are super easy for me if I’m passionate about them. (Rebuilding my website, dealing with customers, etc) I am by no means trying to generalize ADHD, just sharing my personal experiences.
• saddd 5y ago
  I was introduced to all of these techniques at some point throughout my childhood and pre-mid-20s life. None of them really helped me. Prescription amphetamines did, though. It kind of sucks feeling dependent on them to do uninteresting tasks and make it through the less-interesting workdays, but it sure beats being a 25-year-old NEET. Fortunately, as software engineers, we have the privilege of being able to be choosy about our jobs. Which means I can find a new job or team as soon as things stop being fun. I sometimes wonder if I would be capable of doing anything but programming work without completely hating my life. I'd probably be using my prescription every day at that point, instead of 3-4 times a week. "Once a ladder, now a crutch"
  • buscoquadnary 5y ago
    Same here, I've noticed about 18 months or so in I get bored of every gig I've had an because of that have jumped every 2 or 3 years. It has helped in some ones as I've got a lot of exposure but as I get older I'm starting to worry about how sustainable it is, and if I am just doomed to a life of pushing myself through a lot of things with medication.
    • YuccaGloriosa 5y ago
      I have done the same, albeit with no medication for 25 years of working.
  • baby 5y ago
    Just want to point out that a huge part of the workforce is addicted to coffee and can’t be productive without a daily dose of the drug.
    • DarylZero 5y ago
      It doesn't really do anything when you have it that often. They could taper off in a week and be normal.
  • thomastjeffery 5y ago
    There is nothing wrong with depending on medication every day. You have a physiological disorder. Medication is the first line of treatment for ADHD. The second is a mix of cognitive behavioral therapy and medication.
• armchairhacker 5y ago
  ADHD like autism is a spectrum. There are probably completely different “problems” in the brain whose results are all classified as ADHD. Some people with are “inattentive” ADD, others are “hyper-attentive” ADHD. There are also various levels of ADHD. I think everyone has some level of “ADHD”: everyone can understand having trouble starting tasks or forgetting things. These are the symptoms of ADHD. But people diagnosed have them much more severe (sometimes to a flat-out “how?” extent). Some people with ADHD can get by with mental techniques and planners, others really need medication. e.g. having trouble getting up (normal) vs spending hours in bed not realizing any time passed (ADD). Not being able to focus for long (normal) vs losing focus literally every 5 seconds and getting distracted by anything (ADHD).
• mysterydip 5y ago
  I thought I could manage my symptoms, and this was mostly successful, especially at work. That all broke when we had our first child. Routine instantly gone, and every time I got used to a new one, our child grew and changed. "How could you forget to feed/change/etc your own child?" would be my wife's exasperated response. But I started taking more notes and setting more reminders and things were getting better. Then we had twins.
  • jkhdigital 5y ago
    For real, the challenges that ADHD presents at work are nothing compared to what it does at home with a family.
• cjbgkagh 5y ago
  I think there is inherent tension in accommodating both people who need emotional understanding and people who have a physically hard time providing it. I’m not sure it can be or should be resolved. My friends and I are mega nerds and high functioning ADHD. These are the people who I like to build things with. It seems as if we’ve accidentally set up a separatist enclave and It works for us. I think people should play to their strengths to make the most out of their individual situations.
• taurath 5y ago
  Stigma is the biggest problem with conservative managers and business owners deciding people working in the most productive and less stressful way to them makes them a "snowflake", or not management material, or less-than.
• eyelidlessness 5y ago
  It’s surprising and disappointing to me that this—titled “ADHD Accommodations Guide”—buries accommodation recommendations under sub-links and all of the remaining content is advice for, presumably, those of us with ADHD who are trying to work around lack of accommodations. That said, there’s plenty of good advice even if it’s a little inconsistent. It’s also fascinating how much the social part overlaps with challenges faced by Autistic people[1]. For ADHD folks who find some of the advice on multitasking/focus in meetings wanting: it’s absolutely okay to stim (perform some stimulating, often repetitive action) when you find your ability to stay focused isn’t what you need or what’s expected. I have a reputation for spending most of my time in meetings playing minesweeper. It’s not because I’m not engaged, it’s because it helps me stay engaged. I happily stop or mute my mic if the clicking sound is disruptive, but otherwise I’ve continually established with teammates and even clients that having that part of my focus on something mostly mechanical helps me stay in the conversation and productive. 1: Which I increasingly feel confident in the idea that there’s no meaningful distinction and ADHD should/likely eventually will be considered part of the spectrum, but that’s not why I’m commenting.
  • isamuel 5y ago
    Can you explain your footnote? I do not agree. Someone I love is autistic, and it actually sounds exactly backward to me: the ability to command sustained attention is something she enjoys in remarkable surplus, for example.
    • __s 5y ago
      Oddly enough hyperfocus is a symptom of ADHD Besides that, if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism
      • isamuel 5y ago
        Spare me the snotty tone. I was asking a question in good faith and still am. Read what I wrote: I know what hyperfocus is and I chose the verb I chose deliberately.
• mrobot 5y ago
  I have ADHD, and this is why i absolutely hate open-floor offices. I can't get anything done if there are people around me. I am next to worthless. Even if i put on headphones with really loud white noise, i can't help but be distracted by anything that happens. Also, i didn't know to call my problem ADHD for a long time. So, employees or employers first need to recognize there is a problem with ADHD, then they absolutely need to do what the article says and let someone have a private office if they need to come in or work from home.
• anon0n0n 5y ago
  What to do when when the ADHD procrastination issue leads to something being neglected? I've had this with both a roommate, and coworker. When reminded it's genuine embarrassment and apology. But then the problem doesn't get fixed. And repeat. I know it's not intentional. I just want to be able to use the sink. I never really knew how to handle that conversation.
  • chrsig 5y ago
    Try offering to help. No, it's not your responsibility. But if it's something you want done, and the other person is struggling with it (they are, you're just not seeing that part), then help can go a long way. Even just company. It'll also help build your relationship with that person, and they'll most likely want to repay the favor in the future when you could use a hand.
• AJayWalker 5y ago
  I was diagnosed with ADHD/ADD relatively late (about 17). Before the diagnoses I’d tried planners, digital reminders, Pomodoro timers… but the only thing that’s consistently worked is medication. It’s hard to overstate just how much Adderall has improved my life and I’m positive I have a much happier life and higher income because of my altered ability to delay gratification and do long, boring tasks without issue. Highly recommend speaking to a doctor if you think you could benefit.
  • nthngtshr 5y ago
    What kind of doctor do you go to with this? I’ve never gone to anyone other than my primary care doctor and the spectrum of titles mental health professionals have makes it all very confusing to me.
    • briHass 5y ago
      Like AJayWalker said, bring it up with your PCP. Just say: I think I may have AD(H)D, can you give me some recommendations of who to talk to? My PCP had a few, and I had to call around, because some weren't taking new patients. Some PCPs will treat it directly, but many won't. You're better off going to a place that deals with that and other psych issues frequently.
    • AJayWalker 5y ago
      I was lucky to have a teacher refer me to a mental health clinic, where a Licensed Mental Health Counselor was the one to write my prescriptions, rather than a doctor. That may be a good place to start. Otherwise you could bring it up with your primary care provider perhaps.
    • jevyjevjevs 5y ago
      Primary care docs should be able to walk with you on this. After pushing my doc a little bit, he gave me a questionnaire to complete and two weeks later I was starting different medications. There are all kinds of storied on reddit.com/r/adhd of people having issues with their doc. A psychiatrist would have a deeper expertise in managing ADHD if you can get access to one.
• kampsduac 5y ago
  I have ADHD (probably - I am diagnosed but don't fully trust the diagnosis testing). I think it makes me struggle more with general programming, but I thrive with creative engineering thinking: things like challenging the status quo, sharing motivational energy at the right time, and hyper focusing when I construct an environment to do so efficiently. I think all of the accommodations listed would benefit a general workforce, and do not consider it a disability accommodations guide, but rather a best practice guide.
• no-dr-onboard 5y ago
  Not to self promote, but IME remote, asynchronous focused/promoting workplaces tend to work out pretty well for the neurodivergent. IMO, working groups should be established to promote this kind of knowledge to benefit this community.
• nthngtshr 5y ago
  Is there any good books for people new to ADHD diagnosis?
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
• YuccaGloriosa 5y ago
  I would like to be in a work environment where things make sense. An environment where colleagues and managers don't make seemingly irrational decisions. I get things done when I am left to get on with them. I don't like it when I question tasks I am given, and it is interpreted as me not understanding it. I understand it just fine. I'm baffled by the vague and inaccurate definitions of the tasks. I then question whether it is me missing something obvious, or them missing the essence of it. It's not me. It's everyone else that has the issues. It's all relative.
• Apocryphon 5y ago
  This is an excellent guide. Some thoughts on ADHD as a social phenomenon: I’ve seen more comments on HN recently about the disorder, and people sharing their experiences. I personally believe that it’s more commonplace than seen, and my personal theory is that maybe many people have it on the lower end of the spectrum, and thus are high functioning. But I’m also wondering that if the characteristic symptoms of ADHD also exist beyond the neurological condition and maybe people who have other disorders might also experience ADHD symptoms and thus self-diagnose it? In my own limited experience, the common diagnostic process seems awfully lax, while the rigorous version takes hours and costs thousands to undertake. So could there also be a lot of people being misdiagnosed? I’m also wondering if it’s possible to manifest ADHD symptoms or even start thinking like someone with it, due to the environmental factors of modern life, specifically continuous attention-diverting digital lifestyles. Finally, for whatever reason ADHD is currently the internet condition en vogue, much like self-diagnosing Asperger’s was in the 2000s and identifying as an introvert was a few years ago, see this recent tweet skewering a fatuous graphic attributing a common non-ADHD related issue to ADHD: https://twitter.com/juchemane/status/1473045475444109320 https://twitter.com/juchemane/status/1473045475444109320
  • lazide 5y ago
    A core part of ADHD diagnosis is if the patterns have been present since you were a kid. It also requires there be a struggle or problem with the patterns that cause issues with normal living and functioning. The industry in general (well, the part of it HN folks have tended to be from), is maturing and that can bring folks to have to seriously face these issues. It isn’t as new and shiny as it once was. Also, stress from the pandemic and burnout and very non-ADHD friendly circumstances have been turning the screws and making it significantly more painful - which also highlights it.
• jevyjevjevs 5y ago
  I got diagnosed with ADHD 3 months ago after discovering a) my daughter had it and b) that it's highly hereditary. Probably the best introduction to ADHD is a 1.5 lecture by Dr. Russell Barkley, a top researcher in this area. It's technical, empowering and fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzhbAK1pdPM&list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzhbAK1pdPM&list=PLzBixSjmbc... Looking back in my life, I've built sophisticated TODO list and second brain systems to help me manage. Now it's obvious that it's because my working memory is poor because of my neurodivergency. Omnifocus (for GTD) and Obsidian (to be an extension of my brain) are my goto for leveraging my ADHD superpower. If you're looking for a community to learn more for yourself or for someone else: reddit.com/r/adhd is a great place to start.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • rmbyrro 5y ago
    If I may suggest, check your magnesium blood levels (and your daughter's). Magnesium deficiency is also associated with symptoms similar to ADHD. Even for people who really have ADHD, several studies show that magnesium supplementation greatly improves many issues.
    • 1_player 5y ago
      Magnesium helps a bit, but sugar in my experience is ADHD in powder form. The least carbs I eat, the better my brain functions. On a complete carnivore (i.e. zero carb) diet experiment, after the initial adaptation, my focus and motivation is increased 10-fold. But then I get bored, I cheat and I go into a deep unmotivated funk for a week. It makes sense, as ADHD is mostly a dopamine-system imbalance, and carbs tend to increase the levels of tryptophan (serotonin), while proteins increase tyrosine (dopamine). The higher the levels of one, the lower the levels of the other. I'm a layman, this is my pet theory, but there's definitely not enough focus on the dietary aspect of mental health in my opinion.
      • tgaj 5y ago
• fluster 5y ago
  Does anybody have advice for dealing with oncall (for all the software people out there)? My issues are light as they go, and I’m pretty productive for things with timeframes longer than a week, but managing a ticket queue is just brutal, and basically impossible once I end up with pager-induced sleep deprivation. Long-term I think I just need a job that doesn’t involve a lot of ticket management, but switching isn’t an option at the moment, and I need to find something to reduce the amount of slack other people have to pick up.
  • stephenboyd 5y ago
    Oncall shifts shouldn't be so burdensome, even for neurotypical people. That sounds like a real systemic problem. What is happening that regularly requires all the emergency tickets?
  • xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
    I agree with sibling comment, the environment sounds bad. If you need to chat with someone about it let me know, I'm happy to talk through things. Unrelated, I actually love oncall work. If I get woken for something pointlessly, I fix it immediately. I'm a night person by nature, so staying up until 3am fixing a but and the sleeping during the day feels great. It's a constant stream of shiny things to chase and fix.
• beckman466 5y ago
  my favorite source on both ADHD and ADD is Dr. Gabor Maté. i've learned so much from both his free lectures on Youtube, as well as his book 'Scattered Minds'. the blurb on his website has some great points: "Scattered Minds: The Origins and Healing of Attention Deficit Disorder – published in the U.S. as Scattered: How Attention Deficit Disorder Originates And What You Can Do About It – is written from the inside by a doctor who himself has Attention Deficit Disorder. It offers a completely new perspective on ADD and a new approach to helping children and adults living with the problems Attention Deficit Disorder presents. - Demonstrates that ADD is not an inherited illness, but a reversible impairment, a developmental delay Explains that in ADD, circuits in the brain whose job is emotional self-regulation and attention control fail to develop in infancy—and why - Shows how “tuning out” and distractibility are the psychological products of life experience, from in utero onwards - Allows parents to understand what makes their ADD children tick, and adults with ADD to gain insights into their emotions and behaviors - Expresses optimism about neurological development even in adulthood - Presents a program of how to promote this development in children and adults alike" source: https://drgabormate.com/book/scattered-minds/ https://drgabormate.com/book/scattered-minds/ this is an author and expert definitely worth exploring.
  • KerrAvon 5y ago
    I’m skeptical of a random dude claiming to have found the source of all ADHD and that it can be universally unlearned. Seems pretty similar to the concept of homosexuality being considered a lifestyle choice.
• baby 5y ago
  What really annoys me with ADHD is that it often paints a binary word with people who can focus and people who cannot. In reality it’s like everything else, it’s a spectrum.
  • nefitty 5y ago
    I'm diagnosed. I think the underlying nutrition/chemical baselines of individuals need to be studied. It makes no sense to lump all these symptoms under one label. I guess that's just the state of psychiatry though... Could some model of the brain be made for machine learning tools to play with?
    • baby 5y ago
      Also, does it matter? People are all different. The only thing that puts importance on these arbitrary differentiators is if you can integrate with the arbitrary rules that we created
      • nefitty 5y ago
        I think it matters in terms of treatment plans. Sinus issues can cause ADHD symptoms. Nutrient deficiencies can cause them. Brain damage. Immune problems. And so on. If we were better able to uncover what helps move people toward their preferred homeostatic state, it would reduce a lot of suffering. As it is, we spray and pray, shotgun blasting people's brains with amphetamines, bupropion, methylphenidate... What I imagine is a spreadsheet with all of the values we uncover that affect an individual's state of mind. I guess that would be a simulation of human physiology and I'm curious if that's being worked on at all...
        • baby 5y ago
          If there’s an actual root cause that is treatable and that creates harm to your body, then sure
• giantg2 5y ago
  My god... checklists, templates, and instructions should not be ADHD accommodations. These should just be good general business practices afforded to every employee. I've been asking for this type of stuff and consistent work (not full stack in multiple stacks/languages for 8+ apps), and it's like the people in power just don't care.
  • steveklabnik 5y ago
    It can be true that something is useful for all, but especially useful for some. This is a common theme in disability accommodations; they often are useful/helpful for abled people too.
    • giantg2 5y ago
      I think they are more than just useful. I think the reproducibility, regulatory, and continuity aspects of having documented instructions, templates, and checklists are vital to a business.
• lil_dispaches 5y ago
  As a millennial that lucked out of the psych-diagnostic phase of Western Upbringing (thanks Mom!), I don't know if I am autistic, ADHD, Bipolar, or any of it, but I can say this: ADHD is a power trait for understanding the modern world. You probably need to be ADHD in the future.
  • nefitty 5y ago
    I agree. People who can sip from firehoses of information are going to be rewarded. I have a feeling that anything that requires long-chunks of attention has a high chance of being automatable.
    • 1_player 5y ago
      My ability to skim read has worked wonders for my career. I can't sit and read an article or book from top to bottom, but I estimate I consume 10x as much information daily than the average person. It's a blessing and a curse.
• FemmeAndroid 5y ago
  About two years ago, I read a comment on here about the signs that you might have ADHD. I already knew that I had ADHD — I’d been diagnosed and treated in my late teens. However, the medication had done a number on me and after a year or so I’d dropped it completely. I’m in my thirties now, and was stuck at home during lockdown with my then pregnant wife. I’m a working developer, but I knew my work was inconsistent. I blamed myself, and had mostly forgotten the diagnosis. Living and working in the same house as me had made my wife begin to notice just how much ADHD affected me day to day, and was starting to become frustrated with it. Immediately after reading the comment on here, I created a doctors appointment. I ended up going back on Adderall, but when discussing dosage I asked for the lowest dose possible. 5mg. My doctor told me it was a child’s dose (not in a mean or demeaning way,) and was happy to start me there. I’m still at 5mg. It hasn’t made living with me the easiest, for sure. But according to my wife it’s been a huge improvement. I’m so much more focused and capable. I really cannot overstate the improvement at home. My wife is less nervous about distractions and issues related to having a newborn being taken care of by a wife with ADHD. Of course, it’s helped at work as well. I’ve been more productive than I previously thought possible. I’ve also just learned so much more and read so much more. Earlier this year, I ended up realizing that I’d like to try interviewing for the first time in years. Within a month, I’d doubled my salary. That last part is probably the least reproducible thing. But I do think I was essentially accepting a salary level I could live with because I knew I was an inconsistent employee and my employer was letting it slide. Obviously, everyone’s body and mind are different. This isn’t meant as an unreserved ad for ADHD medication. Living with someone who could give me her perspective I’m really helped — I probably wouldn’t have stuck with it had she not been able to articulate a marked improvement within a few weeks. Still, this single recommendation to go to the doctor and talk about ADHD was the single biggest life improvement me or my family could have ever received.
  • pksebben 5y ago
    Man, does that ever resonate. I had years of just beating myself up over not being good enough before I caved and went back on my meds, and since then I have come to believe that the combination of the kinds of lateral thinking and hyperfocus that are endemic to add, with the crutch of adderall, actually grant me significant advantages that neurotypical types lack. My .emacs is my pride and joy and it does most of my work for me. If being on adderall is a little new to you, and you're on such a low dose, might I recommend supplementing with chelated magnesium and agmatine sulfate. These are vitamins that (somehow - I knew for a little while how when I was researching them but tbh that knowledge has flown the coop since) will suppress the development of a tolerance, if taken daily alongside the adderall. One of the pitfalls of being medicated with this stuff is that you're kind of on a steady uphill slope that eventually, if you get to where I am (15mg x 3 / day) means that when you need to take a break, you become more or less an obnoxious vegetable. Don't freak out - it's a looong slope (and probably not as dire an outcome as I may have made it sound), but you can make it longer with these to help mitigate, and you'll be thanking yourself for avoiding hard crashes.
• leoh 5y ago
  I have wondered if I have had ADHD or not. I like the suggestions. I also feel that confronting and healing wounds, such as wounds related to being bullied growing up or having a difficult upbringing may be very helpful for relieving ADHD symptoms. Being blunt, for example, is a symptom of ADHD; it is also, I feel, a reaction against years of feeling unheard -- something I think that can be confronted and healed so that one learns how to express themselves healthfully and in a wholesome way, without feeling unheard, but also without being overly confrontational.
• faangiq 5y ago
  How about low IQ accommodations?
• y3sh 5y ago
  I discovered in my 30s that I have ADHD. In reading this Im surprised at how many of these techniques I discovered out of trial, error, and necessity. Most are great like headphones, writing things down, blocking out distractions, but the long boring task one fascinates me. For me it actually helps to turn on some video series I’m mildly interested in while doing that long boring task. In-office was so much harder because I could never try having Netflix open. I’m a professor now and allow students particular freedoms along these lines, like wearing headphones or skipping lecture for the recorded one. I recently had a student who was able to participate more and keep up with the lecture much better by looking down and slowly maintaining a game on his phone.
  • pksebben 5y ago
    I wish I had had you as a professor. Such a struggle to work around notions of "what normal folks should be able to do". The worst of it was, when I would go to rectify things that got done late or needed extra work, it was all "yeah sure, here's this thing you can do and these deadlines and you'll need to schedule time with me to review during this weird window of time and make sure to fill out these other forms". All of a sudden my late work consists of new scheduling, bureaucracy, and extra deadlines. Throws hands in air
  • tikhonj 5y ago
    > I’m a professor now and allow students particular freedoms along these lines, like wearing headphones or skipping lecture for the recorded one. I recently had a student who was able to participate more and keep up with the lecture much better by looking down and slowly maintaining a game on his phone. Man, I do the same thing. Zoom meetings have been great for this because I can do that to help me pay attention while still looking like I'm paying attention for the other person on the call. It's funny because it first almost felt like deception, but really it's the opposite: I'm paying more attention than if I weren't doing anything else and worrying about my body language instead...
• cloudedcordial 5y ago
  The guide is only good for people who have received a diagnosis or are aware of their own behaviour. For the folks who don't aware of their own ADHD behaviour, they think it's completely normal to interrupt, to feel restless, to blame the job to be so boring, to plan for the immediate need instead of long term etc A close family member exhibit the ADHD behaviour. Growing up, I thought that the normal adults are all restless talk over other people and only think short term. I unconsciously mimic the behaviour. The traits really hurt me during my early career because the traits come across as non-professional and blunt to others. I've since identified those traits and fixed my own behaviour. I've since advanced my career and increased my income quite a bit. I brought up the topic with the family member and was interrupted.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• adamkochanowicz 5y ago
  > "Recording (on a tape recorder, or your smart phone) “notes-to-self” or meetings instead of taking copious notes at meetings" I have ADHD. I was surprised to see this one. When I stopped typing and (only) recording meetings and started writing notes by hand, it forced me to pay attention and think through what I was writing. Research backs this up as well. In fact, I rarely look back on my notes. The mental process in the moment of writing it down is far more important in my opinion.
• natovan 5y ago
  No thank you. I'm still in denial stage.
• vidoc 5y ago
  I find it extremely interesting that ADHD is basically a United States thing, I had never heard of this thing in Europe, but in the US, it is actually talked about like it's an actual pathology, that can be actually diagnosed, and treated of course, surprise surprise, with Ritalin/Adderal. No doubt that we are not all cognitively equal, but I am a personally convinced it is a total scam invented to put people on drugs.
  • lazide 5y ago
    One of the worst cases of ADHD I've personally seen was from someone from Bulgaria. I have neighbors who have it who are Russian. The difference is, in those cultures you just 'try harder' or drink yourself into a stupor/early death if you can't fit in. The US at least gives folks options.
    • vidoc 5y ago
      > One of the worst cases of ADHD I've personally seen was from someone from Bulgaria. I have neighbors who have it who are Russian. Sure, millions of people, myself included, do have attention deficit issues, but the question is whether it is an actual pathology or something socio-educo-cultural. The very diagnostic seems to be extremely controversial amongst scientists, according to google. My bulshit meter is activated because again, while people with troubles of attention can be found everywhere, the United States is about the only country where ADHD is a thing. PS: in terms of options, cocaine works as well and for sale everywhere in the world.
      • lazide 5y ago
        If something is clearly causing severe life issues in both places (as in clear issues with mental well being, same everything in that sense), but one writes it off as ‘whatever, they’re losers’ and the the other gives treatment and helps - I don’t think it’s that it isn’t a pathology in the place that just calls them losers and refuses to do anything. Since a pathology is a disease (aka something not working) and all. And it clearly isn’t working in either place. There is a reason why life expectancy is dramatically shorter for men in Eastern Europe, it isn’t just ADHD that gets this treatment. And suggested illegal street drugs of unknown potency or other problems is somehow better than regulated and tested stimulants is more than a bit bizarre.
• sjatkins 5y ago
  Making someone with ADHD inhabit an open plan office is cruel and unusual punishment. Hell, it is so for any knowledge work without ADHD. That has been known ever since the Peopleware book came out so many years ago. Let these folks work at home.
  • sio8ohPi 5y ago
    I've got ADHD and actually found the opposite for me. Work from home was disastrous because there are so many potential distractions at home, and little accountability. I would see some dust and go get a broom to sweep, or go brush my teeth in case I forgot, or get food, or take "just five minutes" (soon 30) to check social media, or decide I need to make my bed. Any frustration or roadblock meant I would find something to derail me, and this all contributed to depression that made it even harder to focus on work. Going back to the office was a huge boon for me, even before starting medication. I'm currently the only person on my team working 100% from office, and I would walk barefoot over broken glass to my open plan office before I would ever willing return to working from home. I'm not sure if you've got ADHD; I know there's a lot of variation in personal experience. I've heard similar sentiments from multiple people with ADHD regarding working from home, although I think I'm a bit of a freak for tolerating open plan offices well.
• openfuture 5y ago
  I'm painfully ADHD. Extreme. But I have slowly realized that what was actually hurting me is the belief that there is a way to "waste time" ... when I actually relax then I take pretty good care of myself and my surroundings. Of course the modern world is not exactly a place where people relax so I doubt many have realized this. For me yoga is an absolute blessing, I stay away from all amphetamines (never drank coffee) although I did try it a couple of times so I know how it works and I'm glad I don't do it to meet deadlines or further "my career". Anyway, although I can never predict what I will do or how much I will get done it seems that I am steadily accomplishing more as I learn to relax. Accepting some of my bad habits has made them easier to manage and hopefully let go of eventually and engineering my environment so that I make smaller circles when I'm trying to avoid things has also helped. Most of all though I think what allows me to relax is that I have obtained a sufficient level of skill to survive and I am curious to learn more, even though I am a NDTM I am still converging, all the DTMs are puzzled by my behaviour but I arrive in similar places nevertheless. My credentials / certifications don't necessarily match the things I know, which can be annoying. I wish the evaluation system was decoupled from the education system. I believe philosophy is the most important tool to better your condition and computer science, scratch that, lisp! is an amazing gateway into philosophy... Evolving to extinction is not intelligence.
  • kortex 5y ago
    > NDTM Non deterministic Turing machine?
    • deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
• chrischen 5y ago
  I’ve been diagnosed with ADHD (inattentive subtype) and I’m not sure how well understood the professionals have of this thing. While I had problems focusing on uninteresting things (school, SAT tests, even my own code when I didn’t 100% believe in it), I’ve mostly managed to remove this problem by only working on interesting things (dropping out of college, starting a company, being the shot caller, etc). But then if this is the solution can we really call it a disorder?
  • thomastjeffery 5y ago
    It's a spectrum like autism. I am farther along that spectrum than you, and can't even get myself to get through (or started on) projects that I'm excited about most of the time. And that's what makes it a disorder. The threshold may be vague, but it's not something we can just rule out as inconvenient but manageable under ideal circumstances.
    • chrischen 5y ago
      Well they gave me pills and I'm a little worried about how liberally they hand out ADHD medicine because I know people who have become addicted or dependent on it to function. The psychologist neither put me on a spectrum (it was just a binary diagnosis) nor did anything more than the IQ test + questionnaire combo for the diagnosis. I also know people who went and paid the money to get the diagnosis just to get the drugs so they could study harder (maybe they were actually on the spectrum too but it didn't seem like it). I don't doubt you when you say you have it worse and that it's a disorder, but I don't think the professionals have their shit together for this either. If I had taken the drugs I'd probably be stuck leading a normal life, addicted to Adderal, or worse not on medication and failing to achieve any goals. In either case for me personally the doctors didn't have the answer.
      • thomastjeffery 5y ago
        I could find you a dozen stories of people with severe ADHD who were denied medication, and a dozen more who had to jump through ridiculous hoops to fill their prescriptions. Taking a prescribed dosage with the intent to improve your life very rarely leads to addiction. Medication is only one half of the solution. The other half is cognitive behavioral therapy. Using both together has been shown by peer reviewed studies to be very effective for most patients.
• zubspace 5y ago
  I recently heard about OCPD, Obsessive–compulsive personality disorder [1]. I strongly believe, that someone I know very well falls into that category. There are a lot of habits which align. like the need for lists, strong moral compass, unability to accept the approach of others, micromanagement. But also disorganisation in some aspects of life. That person also went to lots of different therapies in life but mainly to treat other aspects, like depression and self-doubt. And nobody ever diagnosed OCPD or ADHD. But the person himself thinks that it could very much be ADHD. The thing is, how do you correctly diagnose ADHD? How can you be sure? What's the most significant trait? Is it a problem if someone gets treated (and medicated) with diagnosed ADHD without having it? [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_personality_disorder https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive...
• a_t48 5y ago
  All of this talk is making me kick myself internally for (un)successfully procrastinating actually filling out the survey to start the diagnosis process for ADHD. :)
  • corobo 5y ago
    When I asked for the referral (last year) they said I'd never handed the forms in when I checked back in 2017 Terrible process, not being able to run the gauntlet first try should be one of the tests honestly
  • jclulow 5y ago
    It is almost cruel the extent to which the ADHD evaluation process for adults is structured. There are so many laborious steps and appointments and diagnostic procedures and so on. One is likely, by virtue of the ADHD, already struggling just to get through work and personal obligations already; adding on top an incredibly dull and complex multistep process, coloured as it is by an apparent moral panic about prescribing low grade amphetamines, is really not a fantastic standard of care.
• iovrthoughtthis 5y ago
  a lot of these are just ways to support the employee meet the needs of the business i would love to see some ways a business can adapt to better meet the needs of employees with executive function disorders
• mgaunard 5y ago
  As someone on the Autism spectrum, I tried some of that advice in a workplace where colleagues were repeatedly complaining about my behaviour. While there were small improvements, it never felt like it really fixed the "problem". I think the only solution is to ensure you work with like-minded people.
• bratwurst3000 5y ago
  Hey thanks to everyone for sharing your stories. In many i can reflect my own life. It rly helps to know people have the same struggle and are still kind of mastering themself through their journey. And that some of you are getting the recognition at work or are recognizing people with adhd and trying to integrate us.