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Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of the year
- wayneotau 5y agoSeriously, Germany is shooting itself in the foot and face. SMH
- tut-urut-utut 5y agoGerman energy policies are insane. Shutting down nuclear energy without replacing source. Already planning shut down of coal plants, also without any plans for replacement. And with Green Party in power it can only become worse. But we shouldn’t worry as long as we can import expensive dirty energy from other countries and complain it’s them and not us not doing enough to stop global warning.
- outworlder 5y ago> “From a pure emissions perspective, it was always a questionable idea to shut down German nuclear before the plants have reached the end of their lifetime,” That's very questionable. Unless they have audited and found uncorrectable design flaws, it really doesn't make sense. A lot of the push seems to have come after Fukushima - an entirely different design, in a different country, with different regulation constraints(some of which were actually violated) and in a region subject to severe natural disasters. It's not like the risk to German plants suddenly increased after that event.
- riedel 5y agoThe insane part is only that not enough is done to boost energy distribution from renewables. So many subventions have been dumped into nuclear and the cost for disposal, it makes sense to move out beyond safety concerns. About the time: to there could have been better times but there was a political momentum and I think a majority of German are in support of the transition.
- tut-urut-utut 5y ago> but there was a political momentum and I think a majority of German are in support of the transition. Majority of German media outlets are in support for transition. German private households already pay one of the most expensive electricity in the world. With prices going even more up, I'm not so sure many would be happy to pay even more.
- GravitasFailure 5y agoOr import ridiculous amounts of nuclear power from France.
- DavidKarlas 5y agoPeople keep saying that but looking at https://app.electricitymap.org/zone/FR https://app.electricitymap.org/zone/FR it seems reverse... That is probably happening in summer at nights...
- GravitasFailure 5y agoOh, interesting. I wonder if Germany is more reliant on France for providing a baseload when renewables dip while France relies on Germany for peaking and supplementing daytime loads. Thanks for the website. It'll definitely come in handy. Edit: With Germany shutting down their nukes, I'm curious if them being a net exporter remains true.
- Krasnol 5y agoNuclear is only 12% of the whole mix in Germany.
- GravitasFailure 5y agoIn 2020 Germany exported 18TWh of energy and produced about 61TWh of nuclear. How much renewable capacity has been added in the past year and how much capacity is being taken off line?
- Krasnol 5y agoHow much can you narrow it down to derail the topic even more? Yes, they didn't do much last year. This is because the last Government didn't care or rather even sabotaged the Energiewende but last year wasn't representative for the whole programme. Also, the new Government will push where the last one slept. Everybody who's even remotely interested in Germany knows that. Didn't you?
- lb1lf 5y ago-Well, in fairness you do import clean hydro from Norway, with foreseeable consequences for our utility bills.
- zibzab 5y agoThis was decided longe before the current mess. But it sometimes feels like we should move a bit slower in these matters and be a tiny bit more flexible to not have a huge backlash.
- dvt 5y agoThis is insane to me. Nuclear is the best long-term option for ecologically-friendly energy generation. This is absolutely a bad move, and the coal industry has done a great job of demonizing nuclear power.
- midjji 5y agoIts less the coal industry and just a random quirk of culture.
- _Microft 5y agoWe experienced fallout from Chernobyl (radiation levels of wild boar meat and some mushrooms are still under surveillance today) and we were designated nuclear ground zero in case that the Soviets tried to invade Europe. What attitude towards all things nuclear do you expect to arise from that?
- RivieraKid 5y agoDepends on how rational you are. Unfortunately, people are not very rational on average.
- hutzlibu 5y agoWell, one small accident 35 years ago and far away, that could have been much worse - is still the cause that large areas are contaminated here. It is rational, to be sceptic of such a technology. Most discussions about it are not, sure. Anti-nuclear is a strong dogma in green circles and not to be discussed about - but there are still real reasons, why it became a dogma in the first place. Because nuclear energy is not as save and easy as it was promised. It is heavily subsidized, but socialised the risk - and the current storage solutions to the waste are sub-optimal. So expensive and dangerous. I am open to have them run a bit longer, and rather close the coal plants, but they are not a magic bullet solution.
- arghwhat 5y agoBeing target for nuclear bombs isn't related to nuclear power in the slightest. The fallout sucked, but even that was a minor hiccup compared to the destruction pollution is bringing with it...
- baby 5y agoFrom what I understand they are still the biggest carbon emitter in the EU…
- foepys 5y agoIt's also the country with the largest population and manufacturing industry.
- makerofspoons 5y agoWill the reactors be mothballed, converted, or torn down? Ideally if political winds change and the reactors are mothballed, could they be restarted? I live near the Fort St. Vrain Generating Station, a nuclear plant converted to gas in the 90s, and I often think about what could have been if it had been made commercially viable earlier in its life.
- sascha_sl 5y agoAll German reactors have run long past their design life span. The ones shut down first are already being decommissioned. Proposing new reactors would be political suicide, unfortunately.
- beders 5y agoHere's a good article to give context about this decision and why Germans - who were affected by Chernobyl, btw - support this. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/history-behind-germanys-nuclear-phase-out https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/history-behind-ge...
- uniqueuid 5y agoThis is an important point. People don't easily forget when they had to avoid fresh fruit, vegetables and meat for a year because it was radioactive.
- RivieraKid 5y agoIt makes the decision to shut down nuclear power plants understandable, but not right.
- this_user 5y agoAnd parents replacing the sand in their children's sandpits. There are parts of southern Germany where you are not supposed to collect mushrooms or hunt and eat game, because there is still enough residual nuclear contamination to be harmful to humans. Proponents of nuclear energy like to pretend that it is almost completely safe. But if we look beyond the, admittedly relatively low, confirmed number of immediate casualties of nuclear accidents, there are serious long-term consequences that remain an issue for decades and more. And Chernobyl was still far from the worst case scenario as most of the fallout hit sparsely populated areas.
- luckylion 5y agoGermans love to be panicked though, I think that's a much larger part of it than actual fallout. The recommendations for self-harvested mushrooms and game are to not eat them excessively in the areas that were affected more strongly. Contrast that with the damage that was done by decades of coal power plants polluting the air you breathe. Coal is more damaging each year than chernobyl was, it just gets much less attention.
- outside1234 5y agoTotally insane - what are they thinking? This is the best chance for climate And what is plan B - more gas from Putin? Insane
- nradov 5y agoUS gas producers would also like to sell them more delivered by LNG tankers.
- rllearneratwork 5y agothey are replacing it mostly with gas from Russia. Great idea! /s
- Animats 5y agoLeaving Germany burning lignite (halfway between peat moss and coal) and buying natural gas from Russia. The worst of both worlds.
- Enginerrrd 5y agoAnd nuclear from France if I'm not mistaken.
- GravitasFailure 5y ago"We no longer produce electricity with coal or nuclear! We just buy it from other countries and then browbeat them about environmental responsibility!" doesn't seem like a sustainable energy policy.
- _ph_ 5y agoGermany is a net exporter of electricity. But Europe has a joint spot market for electricity, which is a good thing for all involved. No longer every country has to supply expensive peak power when surplus of neighbours can be used. And Switzerland and Austria are kind of European storage providers. A 1GW line to Norway went operational recently, which uses Norwegian water power for storage.
- GravitasFailure 5y agoWill Germany remain a net exporter without their nukes, and by getting rid of their nuclear capacity will they be forced to delay shutting down their coal plants?
- AstralStorm 5y agoNet export does not matter when it's at times when nobody wants tp buy it because they have their own renewables... What matters is amount of electricity bought from Germany, not amount of generation ran.
- BenoitP 5y ago
- olivermarks 5y agohttps://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/netherlands-goes-nuclear-in-massive https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/netherlands-goes... Holland is building two new reactors, and 'Energy and electricity prices are at record levels due to Europe’s over-reliance on renewables, inadequate supplies of nuclear energy, and shortages of oil and gas due to under-investment in oil and gas exploration and production. Carbon emissions in Germany rose 25% in the first half of 2020 due in large part to a 25% decline in wind, underscoring the unreliable nature of weather-dependent renewables. In response, both France and Britain have promised a major expansion of nuclear energy.' Very turbulent times in EU energy markets.
- elric 5y agoNot sure whether I agree with the "over-reliance on renewables"-bit. Renewables are a relatively small part of EU energy production. The vast majority is fossil fuel (which is mostly imported from the Middle East or Russia). I can't speak for the rest of the EU, but energy policy in Belgium has been an absolute shitshow for decades now. No one wants to invest in anything. There's NIMBYism everywhere. No one wants any kind of energy production in sight, which is an impossibility in a country the size of paper towel. No one wants to reduce demand. And no one wants to rely on imports; which is ironic, given that we import uranium, oil, and gas ... ?
- sam_lowry_ 5y agoSecond that. As much as I disagree with N-VA, I am tempted to vote for it because it has consistent environment policy and people like Zuhal Demir to enforce it.
- phicoh 5y agoIt is extermely unlikely that The Netherlands will build two new reactors. My interpretation is that two political parties keep bringing up nuclear power to basically derail the discussion on how the Dutch government is not doing enough with respect to green energy. Given the costs at Hinkley Point C, Olkiluoto 3, Flamanville 3, it very unlikely that any political party will actually sign off on building one. Furthermore, starting to build a nuclear power plant doesn't help the 2030 goals one bit. And those are already hard to reach.
- domenkozar 5y agoYou probably never heard about Bhopal disaster, one of the world's worst industrial disasters, killing 3787 people.
- avsteele 5y agoPlease correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that nuclear doesn't ramp up/down very well either. Most nuclear plants use fission for the base load but gas or other fossil fuel generators for the variable part. Since in Germany green power in the form of solar/wind are even more variable, this makes Nuclear + Solar/Wind a bad combo. Wind and solar don't even make sense for Germany given their climate/geography. Germany should ditch the green and use its amazing engineering to build better nuclear reactors, IMO.
- uniqueuid 5y ago52% of Germany's energy production in 2021 was from renewables [1], which are productive now, don't need decades of planning and construction, have zero costs for waste and a perfectly clear risk profile for the next centuries. I don't see how wind and solar don't make sense. [1] https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2021/09/PE21_429_43312.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2021/09/PE21_429_43312.html
- cure 5y ago> I don't see how wind and solar don't make sense. Wind and solar make total sense. All we need to do is overbuild wind/solar generation + invest in energy storage capacity. This can be done relatively quickly, certainly much more quickly than building new nuclear plants.
- nradov 5y agoWhat kind of grid scale storage can be built quickly?
- merb 5y agohydro, but thats also something we do not built because it's not environment friendly (takes a lot of space and kills species living there and might need to move people). keep in mind we are not china they basically do everything lately to grow their energy, hydro, nuclear, wind, solar the full mix, something which would not be possible in germany, because people would go full madness, heck even wind already is something that some people do not like.
- randomopining 5y agoGreat timing, right as Russia is cranking to tear us apart from the europeans through energy and any other means available.
- cmarschner 5y agoThe sentiment on HN on this topic has traditionally been negative, and comments that support the move get downvoted. The fear of nuclear energy is deeply rooted in Germany and cannot be simply ignored. The "Anti AKW" (anti nuclear power) movement was huge since the 80s, it predates the fear of global warming, and it was at the core of what became the Green party. And Merkel, who has a doctorate quantum chemistry, came to the conclusion that nuclear power is too risky. And this sentiment had the backing of the parliament. And the parliament had the backing of the population. These are the facts. It is likely that her party, traditionally pro nuclear, will change its opinion now that she's stepped down. But they're not in power for at least the next 4 years, and the new governing coalition has agreed on nuclear being a non-option for energy policy.
- adolph 5y agoDoes "Green" have the same set of meanings in Germany as in the US? Gerhard Fritz Kurt Schröder . . . served as the chancellor of Germany from 1998 to 2005, during which his most important political initiative was Agenda 2010. As Chancellor, he led a coalition government of his Social Democratic Party of Germany and the Alliance 90/The Greens. . . . Schröder has been chairman of Russian energy company Rosneft since 2017. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der PJSC Rosneft Oil Company (Russian: Росне́фть, tr. Rosnéft', IPA: [ˌrosˈnʲeftʲ] stylized as ROSNEFT) is a Russian integrated energy company headquartered in Moscow. Rosneft specializes in the exploration, extraction, production, refining, transport, and sale of petroleum, natural gas, and petroleum products. The company is controlled by the Russian government through the Rosneftegaz holding company. Its name is a portmanteau of the Russian words Rossiyskaya neft (Russian: Российская нефть, lit. 'Russian oil'). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosneft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosneft
- uniqueuid 5y agoSchröder is a social democrat, not a green. His schmoozing with Russia is not characteristic of the German green party.
- reducesuffering 5y ago
- PhilTri 5y ago
- mullingitover 5y agoDepending on how things go with what is widely believed to be an impending Russian invasion of Ukraine, with hostilities potentially spilling beyond that sphere, I have to wonder if this will go into the history books as another historic strategic blunder for Germany. Surrendering a large amount of your domestic energy production, placing your fate in the hands of a hostile power is a real head scratcher.
- fsh 5y agoI am afraid this thread is going to be heavy on strongly held opinions and very light on facts and figures. In a futile attempt to compensate, here is the history of gross electricity production in Germany [1]. And here is the electricity import/export statistics [2]. [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Energymix_Germany.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Energymi... [2] https://www.bmwi.de/Redaktion/DE/Infografiken/Energie/stromaustausch-mit-nachbarlaendern.jpg https://www.bmwi.de/Redaktion/DE/Infografiken/Energie/stroma...
- marvinblum 5y agoIt's worth noting that we pay for both, import and export of electricity in Germany. This is due to the failed* energy transition ("Energiewende") into renewable production. We pay for our overproduction on sunny and windy days, because the electricity _has_ to be bought by network providers. * inefficient and too expensive
- _Microft 5y agoInteractive live charts can be found at https://energy-charts.info/?l=en https://energy-charts.info/?l=en Direct link to charts: https://energy-charts.info/charts/power/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&stacking=stacked_absolute_area https://energy-charts.info/charts/power/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&...
- Luc 5y agoOne wonders how much better those charts would have looked with a rational investment into a climate-neutral, self-reliant form of electricity production, i.e. dozens of new nuclear reactors. I think the merit of this idea will become clear among the public when the price of electricity becomes an election issue.
- progbits 5y agoWhile we are adding charts: [1] shows carbon intensity (g CO2e / kWH) per country for EU. [1] https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/daviz/co2-emission-intensity-9/#tab-googlechartid_googlechartid_googlechartid_chart_1111 https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/daviz/co2-emission-i...
- 5y ago
- rvnx 5y agoWhat if we ban all cryptocurrencies mining in order to save energy ?
- quickthrower2 5y agoThere is no “we” that can do this, no world government. Also by implication there is a lost of bad energy uses we must prohibit. What else is on the list?
- scotty79 5y agoWhat if we raise price of energy to the level where mining cryptocurrency is barely profitable and even that only in times of peak production from renewables and subsidize consumers directly so they can purchase reasonable amount of energy priced that way for their own use?
- KingMachiavelli 5y agoWho is a reasonable consumer? Industries like steel refinement are basically just energy cost arbitrage just like Bitcoin but you get steel instead of Bitcoin. Plus crypto dynamically changes the mining difficulty.
- scotty79 5y agoNot sure if you can rampup/rampdown steel refining quickly enough to provide on demand buffer load for renewables.
- scotty79 5y ago> Who is a reasonable consumer? I wouldn't phrase it like that. I wouldn't split customers in reasonable and unreasonable ones. I'd just estimate how much energy each person uses on average, both for heating or running devices and in the products they purchase. Then I'd bring up energy price to a level where it's barely profitable to mine crypyo. I'd do that by taxing energy manufacturers. Then I'd calculate how this increase will increase cost of living to average person. And pay out every person basic income at level high enough to compensate for this price hike. Taxes might be used to steer energy sector rowards greener energy sources. Companies can adapt to any energy price. Subsidizing exports might be needed to keep your exports globally competitive. Taxing imports according to energy consumed in their production might be needed to provide fair competition between imports and locally manufactered goods locally
- uniqueuid 5y agoPlease remember that nuclear energy makes up 12% of Germany's overall power production [1]. Yes we do import nuclear power from France. But this is not going to be a game-changer and might be even possible to offset with clean sources. [1] https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2021/09/PE21_429_43312.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2021/09/PE21_429_43312.html
- barney54 5y agoAverages do not matter when you need to keep the heat and lights on. Wholesale electricity rates are already 5 times as high as last winter. What matters is what generation can produce electricity when you need it and starting here in 10 days you will need more production.
- uniqueuid 5y agoYou're completely right on this problem, of course. Just as a cynical observation, we'll see how price-sensitive consumer energy demand really is.
- globalise83 5y agoIt seems to me that that the harms from power generation increases only in logarithmic proportion to the amount of energy generated for nuclear (adding a few more hundred tonnes of waste to an existing storage facility doesn't really increase harm all that much), in linear proportions for renewables (more hills must be covered with wind turbines to generate more energy), and for fossil fuels the harm is to some degree in an exponential relationship due to the feedback effects of increasing carbon dioxide. Unfortunately I don't think the world is in a position to give up nuclear just yet, and Germany certainly isn't.
- shariat 5y agoCalifornia is doing the same insane thing, unbelievable, this is worse than denying climate change
- RivieraKid 5y agoThis is not just about Germany, it affects energy and gas prices across Europe and it makes Europe more dependant on Russia.
- yakshaving_jgt 5y agoFrustrating. Also ironic, the idea that climate activists are a significant cause of climate change.
- nkmnz 5y agoprice of 1MWh on Dec 21 2020: 45€ price of 1MWh on Dec 21 2021: 316€ https://www.wiwo.de/my/unternehmen/energie/knappheitspreise-der-strompreis-wahnsinn-in-fuenf-grafiken/27880418.html?ticket=ST-5628165-3RGd6lKKiSVP4bP1ndtU-cas01.example.org https://www.wiwo.de/my/unternehmen/energie/knappheitspreise-...
- stefan_ 5y agoprice of 1MWh on Dec 23 2021 in France: >400€ https://www.services-rte.com/en/view-data-published-by-rte/france-spot-electricity-exchange.html https://www.services-rte.com/en/view-data-published-by-rte/f... Spot markets be spotting, we can play this game all day long.
- nkmnz 5y agoConcrats, you've discovered that we have a (somewhat) unified electricity market in Europe, so of course prices are highly correlated. So what game do you think can be played all day long? Pretend that everything is good because we have the momentary luxury to pay absurd premiums on Russian gas so that Mr. Putin can pay for his power play?
- LunaSea 5y agoIt's that high in France because Germany is knee deep in gas plants. So much for a European partner ...
- smotah 5y agoIndeed, that's a consequence of how the price is artificially calculated within the European electricity market. To avoid providing advantage to electricity resellers having providers with lower production costs the price is calculated according to the price of the last connected plant at any given time within the interconnected grid. It's most of the time natural gas or coal plants because of the "flexibility" needs. The cost of electricity production in France is currently lower than Germany, but the resell price is currently close due to those market rules.
- 5y ago
- RivieraKid 5y agoWhat I don't understand is that Merkel is allegedly smart, yet she made this decision.
- this_user 5y agoShe didn't, her predecessor did.
- cmarschner 5y agoShe changed course when she took over and supported nuclear first, then changed her assessment after Fukushima.
- Krasnol 5y agoShe did not support nuclear...she did not stop the exit before Fukushima. She just moved it a few years back. Something she took back after Fukushima.
- reducesuffering 5y agoThen you also don't understand politics. Politicians are very constrained by what their populace wants or they're voted out.
- yosito 5y agoThe obvious reasons this is bad are that it increases German dependence on Russian oil and burning fossil fuels for energy. What are the arguments in favor of it, from the point of view of the German politicians and/or activists that are pushing for it? It has to be more thought out than "Nuclear bad". I'm just trying to understand.
- YinLuck- 5y ago
- ojagodzinski 5y ago> What are the arguments in favor of it, from the point of view of the German politicians and/or activists that are pushing for it? There isnt any, there is only strong coal lobby, russian propaganda against nuclear and lots of stupid people that use Charnobyl as an argument.
- toper-centage 5y agoThese are very old power plants that need to be decommissioned.
- sitkack 5y agoConvert EVs to have 10kw+ of grid intertied inverters. Build GWhr capacity batteries at the old nuclear facilities. Those facilities should at least be kept in warm standby. Machines switched off will rot and the whole steam and electricity aspect of a nuke plant is the same regardless of where the steam comes from. Sad, but we should work with what we have.
- AstralStorm 5y agoAnd how will you drive the discharged car in the morning? It's a non-starter proposition.
- sitkack 5y agoThe car needs to be at 100% to get to work?
- reducesuffering 5y agoNon-starter? It's the actual grid battery storage solution a decade from now. EV owners will be able to pull and push electricity to the grid, incentivized by $. When the grid needs base load, $ paid to EV owners pushing electricity to the grid will keep rising until market equilibrium. Users can get notifications on a mobile app for certain $/kwh they'll be willing to receive to have their car go from 100% -> 60%, especially as battery storage gets larger and many people end up with 400 mile capacities where 90% of the time they use 50 miles during the day. Have a long trip coming up? Don't push electricity those days... Especially with WFH (charge EV during day, give to grid at night, end up making $)
- danny_codes 5y agoAlso I suspect private car ownership will dwindle as full self-driving replaces human drivers. In this world (10-20 years from now) future-Uber will own fleets of self-driving EV taxis. The company will derive additional profit from acting as grid storage.
- petre 5y agoUnfortunately Germany's medium term decarbonization plan relies on Russian gas. The Greens could throw a wrench into this plan and sabotage it like they did with nuclear energy. But then the question is what do they put in its place? And the answer is almost always: coal.
- petermcneeley 5y agoNothing is important here except the price. Markets are based on supply demand. If the demand is not going to diminish the supply must increase. If this does not happen there will almost certainly be harm to the economy.
- dekervin 5y agoThe nuclear issue is fascinating to watch unfold, over the years. I didn't expect the rational pro-nuclear to be almost as religious as their opponents. Which makes them also refuse to engage in debate. So, here is one of the thoughts that crossed my mind (and I am well aware there are counter arguments to it ). With its high density of energy and perceived higher potential to harm its surrounding environment, nuclear power requires a level of State Capacity and stability that is not found over half of the planet. It is not obvious that it can be a widespread, long term alternative for most of the world economies. With that in mind, isn't it better if some of the wealthier countries basically front the cost and explore completely alternative (nuclear-free) systems for all the others ? Even if we globally end up with an energy mix ? Curious to hear opinions with that point of view in mind.
- RaitoBezarius 5y ago> It is not obvious that nuclear energy can be a widespread, long term alternative for most of the world economies. This problem is also known as nuclear proliferation and, as far as I know, is known to people building nuclear reactors. Small nuclear reactors takes them in account: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_modular_reactor#Nuclear_Proliferation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_modular_reactor#Nuclear_...> ; nuclear smuggling is also monitored: <https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/pressreleases/iaea-database-shows-continued-incidents-of-trafficking-and-loss-of-control-of-nuclear-and-other-radioactive-material https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/pressreleases/iaea-database-...> Unpopular opinion: I do not think it is possible to get rid of the inherent risk of nuclear proliferation, even without building nuclear reactors in non-wealthy countries. Multiple reasons : * Non-wealthy countries wants to be first-class countries, at some point, they will desire to move on to "energy upgrades", beyond international community (read: wealthy countries), who has the right to refuse them to build such infrastructure? * Villains will move on to harder targets, but will move on, even if it requires using countries already using nuclear and are actually "non-wealthy" (for some reasonable definition) It might not be feasible to guarantee the right levels of security for these scenarios, but we can take them in account and work out nuclear reactor models which limits as much as possible the inherent risks. Consider this bad metaphor: as we are writing more and more software, some of them are increasingly critical to users, therefore, we invest in different levels of guaranteeing software is working as intended (e.g. formal methods, etc.). I see no absolute reason to not pursue the same avenue here, indeed, I even learned about nuclear reactor startups which are applying modern technology to a safer nuclear ecosystem.
- gpvos 5y agoIt is fascinating to see how Germany is shutting down nuclear and encouraging natural gas (while still using lignite, of all things, phasing it out only slowly), while the Netherlands is starting to reduce its use of gas and investigating building new nuclear plants.
- eschulz 5y agoOne German bets on nuclear while another German bets against nuclear. Time will tell which one was wise (maybe both?).
- authed 5y agoIf the BBB plan passed and was purely focused on home solar systems, a large majority of homes in the US would be covered with solar panels.
- drdmi 5y agoWhy are so many here pro-nuclear? How do you solve the problems that come with increasing use of nuclear reactors? 1. handling nuclear waste 2. knowledge transfer of breeding technology which is also used for creating plutonium for atom bombs
- dekervin 5y agoIt's so lopsided you'd think every hacker news reader moonlight as an engineer at a nuclear plant. I count 5 "insane" on that page already. German policies are insane, California is insane,... you get the drift.
- rob_c 5y agoSlow clap... Popularism strikes again
- mikaeluman 5y agoMuch of Europe is following in Germanys steps I am afraid. I can only speak for Sweden. We had for the longest time the most solid energy base with hydro power in the north and nuclear in the south. Policy has since decades been anti-nuclear though but it really accelerated 2016. Basically nuclear power gets heavy tax and fee penalties while wind gets the reverse treatment. If you check https://www.svk.se/om-kraftsystemet/kontrollrummet/ https://www.svk.se/om-kraftsystemet/kontrollrummet/ you can see the result. Nuclear and hydro still supply all power - but we now have an erratic additional source of wind power that has such volatility that it can spike its production and reverse in just a day. It's completely uncontrollable and so can't provide a stable base for industry nor homes or offices. Meanwhile, with nuclear plants now being taken offline, southern Sweden is paying a multiple of higher prices than Northern Sweden. This is exacerbated by other countries in Europe making similar faulty decisions - notably Germany - meaning that even if Sweden produces energy to export on a good day, prices are high. Northern Sweden is for now safe because there is no bandwidth to transfer the energy produced in an efficient way. I only hope that the election this year will see policy change to normal again, with a renewed focus on nuclear. Nuclear needs no subsidies, it just needs to not be penalized by inane policies, taxes and bureaucratic nonsense. During the summer, when less energy is needed, Sweden even had to start its old oil based power plant. The solution is similar in Europe where reliance on natural gas from Russia is becoming normal, in particular for Germany. In Sweden we have at least come far enough to recognize this as a crisis and the so called environmental party will probably be booted out of the Riksdag come September.
- mongol 5y agoThe strangest thing is that it got so far. We had a nuclear-friendly prime minister, or at least one that could judge the benefits of nuclear, and he happened to forget all about it as time passed (Löfven)
- smotah 5y ago> Much of Europe is following in Germanys steps I am afraid. There's still hope, it is to be expected than the gas price surge and geopolitical implications of dependencies will make people realize than it's not conceivable to shut down nuclear power. That's not even taking into account the global warming considerations. After closing a reactor to please the greens, the French government will hopefully come back in it's right mind by finishing it's EPR and building more (complete nuclear plants replacement is needed right now to anticipate the end of life of the current fleet). The United Kingdom is expected to have a new EPR to enter service. Finland finally powered theirs two days ago. Nuclear phase out of Belgium seems unrealistic and The Netherlands is evaluating the possibility of building two plants. France, Poland and Hungary are in favor of including nuclear power in the green taxonomy. It's a big deal because nearly all of Poland's electricity production is from coal. Since building new plants is expensive and takes time, it should starts right now and be subsidized like new renewables, as Europe will need to replace it's old reactors in just some decades, while committing to CO2 emissions reduction. Germany seems like a lost cause, though.
- smsm42 5y agoCertain Mr. Putin will be opening a lot of champagne this New Year, as it seems.
- pezzana 5y agoThis may sound like a big deal, but Germany only currently consumes about 12% of its electricity from nuclear power, according to: https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-c... Solar and wind have increased, while hydrocarbons are neutral to declining.
- locallost 5y agoOne aspect of nuclear that is almost never mentioned is the disposal of the waste. The owners of Germany's nuclear power plants paid 24 billion in 2017 to rid themselves of the responsibility for it. It will cost the country an estimated 170 billion for temporary and permanent solutions, and the money is now invested in a fund to grow it. It was criticised by Greenpeace as insufficiently small. The government and even the Greens accepted this as there was a danger the companies would try to weasel out of paying anything. What happens if a company goes bankrupt? The management of the waste becomes the responsibility of the society. A lot of countries (even the US) don't have a permanent solution for the storage of nuclear waste and some of the temporary ones were already reported leaking.
- amai 5y agoGermany could reduce its total CO2 emissions by 10% simply by shutting down only three lignite power plants: Neurath, Niederaußem, Jänischwalde. These three alone produce 81 Million tons of CO2 per year: https://energy-charts.info/charts/emissions/chart.htm?l=de&c=DE&year=-1&source=lignite https://energy-charts.info/charts/emissions/chart.htm?l=de&c... It is really unclear to me why everyone is talking about shutting down nuclear power plants, but nobody talks about shutting down lignite power plants. See also https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ac13f1 https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ac13f1