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Apple’s approach to China remains the most disappointing (and hypocritical) thing about the company. When privacy really matters for the users that need it most

Apple’s approach to China remains the most disappointing (and hypocritical) thing about the company. When privacy really matters for the users that need it most, Apple sells them out for continued access to the Chinese market. https://stratechery.com/2021/the-information-on-apple-in-china-apples-deal-evaluating-apples-china-risk/ https://stratechery.com/2021/the-information-on-apple-in-chi...

ISL 5y ago
Is Stratechery's paywall new? I'm surprised to see one from an author who writes in a voice that aspires to reach the world.
- dcwca 5y ago
  Worth the subscription fee for sure
- gonehome 5y ago
  Ah I didn't realize this was a daily one (I subscribe) - he does a mixture of free and not free. I think the subscription is worth it though.
- divbzero 5y ago
  Having the financial means to develop and maintain his voice seems like a reasonable part of that aspiration. The author is fully supported by his work with Stratechery. [1] [1]: https://stratechery.com/about/ https://stratechery.com/about/
- mdekkers 5y ago
  I pay for Stratechery. It’s absolutely worth it. Top tier analysis.
pbhjpbhj 5y ago
I assumed it was firstly access to Chinese manufacturing. They can probably still make humongous profits without the Chinese market, but presumably their global sales rely on first manufacturing in China?
- brandall10 5y ago
  China is their number 1 market to expand. If market cap is to go up, China is instrumental there. If anything, continuing to manufacture in China is likely required for that market expansion. Otherwise I feel they would have started to diversify to other, less politically tenuous markets.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Yep, and it's likely that China is the only place they could actually manufacture their products. China isn't the cheapest place to make things anymore, and it hasn't been in a long time - that's been supplanted by Bangladesh, Vietnam, etc. It's even within spitting distance to manufacture in the US. Companies manufacture complex electronics products in China because everyone manufactures there. The skills are there, factories are there - but most importantly, the supply chains are there. You can drive a truck from factory to factory to pick up all the pieces you need. Then drop the truck off at Foxconn. They'll make the products and you can put them back into the truck and drop them off at the port or rail yard. That's not something you can just replace overnight.
  - tooltalk 5y ago
    Samsung is the largest smartphone-maker in the world (and has been for much of past 10+ years). They ceased all their phone-making operation in China and left for Vietnam a couple of years ago (also most recently closed their last display, shipbuilding operation) -- along with 200+ suppliers, plus 20+ new domestic suppliers created there along the way. Now, most of Samsung phones are made in Vietnam and their output there accounts for some 30% of Vietnam's export and 20% of their GDP (2019). I'm very skeptical that China is the only place Apple can make their products. Sure, Apple doesn't actually "manufacture" anything -- the company outsourced it to Taiwnese CM's like Foxconn, Wistron, and others who have cleary demonstrated that they have no competence, experience, or even desire to build things outside China (see Foxconn's misadventures in Brazil, Wisconsin US). But that shouldnt' be surprising considering that their business model entirely depends on ginormous state subsidies and seemingly unlimited supply of young, unskilled laborers from rural China. Also consider the fact that most critical, high-value components come from not China, but South Korea, Japan, the US (some via TSMC in Taiwan) -- China still makes less than 5% of all chips produced globally (as of 2019 according to US SIA). Of course, they are all assembled/packaged there, but China's contribution to this whole process still accounts for less than 4% of overall value. I just don't buy the argument that China as the world's electronic supply-chain can't be replaced.
polack 5y ago
Just like Google that bent over backwards to please the Chinese censorship and their persecution. Then when Google failed in China (domestic competitors was better) they tried to exit "gracefully" by claiming it's due the Chinese hacking them and pretending it's about ethics...
echelon 5y ago
A Reddit comment [1] on this same article really hit home, > Mr. Cook has watched China's middle class grow to four hundred million while watching the domestic middle class shrink. Like GM, which sells more cars in China than the USA, Apple knows where the market opportunities reside. America needs growth again, whether that's immigration, childbirth and childcare subsidies, or seeking to merge with other democratic nations (Australia, Korea, Japan, Taiwan). America needs to onshore manufacturing of critical chemicals and components. Steel. Electronics. America needs education that is equitable, but it also needs to let academically or extracurricularly gifted students advance to special placement. I want America to be #1. Free speech, being critical of government, and even having the ability to run for president are rights that every person should have. edit: [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/rb2774/comment/hnmdaml/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/rb2774/comment/...
- mempko 5y ago
  China simply invested more in their people than USA it seems. You now see American business people like Elon Musk promote divestment from the USA in his attack on government deficits.
  - justinator 5y ago
    > China simply invested more in their people than USA it seems So long as you're not Muslim.
    - dirtyid 5y ago
      Technically, especially Muslims. The per capita amount spent on securitization, reeducation, labour transfer (jobs programs) for the purpose of sinicizating restive muslims population is massive.
    - autosharp 5y ago
      Those camps didn't build themselves.
    - 5y ago
loudtieblahblah 5y ago
every company - from privacy advocates to those cashing in on social justice - bow to China. Every, last one of them.
hereforphone 5y ago
I have a secret to share. Apple and others may virtual signal but at the end of the day it's all about profits. If you believed otherwise you were mislead. "Think Different" is just a commercial slogan.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- wyattpeak 5y ago
  I find this attitude, as common as it is, a bit of a non-argument. Every company is motivated by profits, and yet I have vastly different opinions on the behaviours of different companies. Even when you have one ultimate goal, there are a thousand different ways to go about it, including to behave in ways I find admirable in order to secure my business going forward. It's fairly irrelevant to me why you're behaving the way you are, so long as you are.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    > Every company is motivated by profits, and yet I have vastly different opinions on the behaviours of different companies. Wrong, it is survival bias. Not every company is motivated by profits, but the ones that survive long enough for you to notice are. If the company isn't motivated by profits, is simply doesn't last long enough to be a major player.
    - wyattpeak 5y ago
      That's fair, I should clarify: every public is motivated by profits. I don't actually think it's survivorship bias, my local coffee shop is good to me for little other reason than the owner and I get on well, and they're not likely to go out of business any time soon. I just didn't specify my point well enough.
      - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        Your little coffee shop goes out of business if they don't attract enough business, if they have competitors that provide a better product for example. But even then, you are rewarding their good behavior directly, if you want to scale that up, you and and a bunch of your friends will need to stop buying Apple products to let them know you find their behavior to not be of your liking (and become patrons of the companies that do conform to your moral values). But scaling morality is hard without some sort of restricted market intervention.
Lamad123 5y ago
But they need slave labor from China and fuerdai's money.
8bitsrule 5y ago
So much for throwing a sledgehammer at Big Brother. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I]
- jjtheblunt 5y ago
  i think Big Brother there is the IBM PC, dominant at the time.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  This ad aged like milk, considering they stood for a while as The Biggest Brother.
- kaidon 5y ago
  I have to throw a sledgehammer at the 'T' key on my 2018 Macbook Pro for it to work because of this forsaken butterfly keyboard.
  - errcorrectcode 5y ago
    Hackintosh time with a Lenovo.

ISL 5y ago

Is Stratechery's paywall new? I'm surprised to see one from an author who writes in a voice that aspires to reach the world.

dcwca 5y ago
Worth the subscription fee for sure
gonehome 5y ago
Ah I didn't realize this was a daily one (I subscribe) - he does a mixture of free and not free. I think the subscription is worth it though.
divbzero 5y ago
Having the financial means to develop and maintain his voice seems like a reasonable part of that aspiration. The author is fully supported by his work with Stratechery. [1] [1]: https://stratechery.com/about/ https://stratechery.com/about/
mdekkers 5y ago
I pay for Stratechery. It’s absolutely worth it. Top tier analysis.

pbhjpbhj 5y ago

I assumed it was firstly access to Chinese manufacturing. They can probably still make humongous profits without the Chinese market, but presumably their global sales rely on first manufacturing in China?

brandall10 5y ago
China is their number 1 market to expand. If market cap is to go up, China is instrumental there. If anything, continuing to manufacture in China is likely required for that market expansion. Otherwise I feel they would have started to diversify to other, less politically tenuous markets.
arcticbull 5y ago
Yep, and it's likely that China is the only place they could actually manufacture their products. China isn't the cheapest place to make things anymore, and it hasn't been in a long time - that's been supplanted by Bangladesh, Vietnam, etc. It's even within spitting distance to manufacture in the US. Companies manufacture complex electronics products in China because everyone manufactures there. The skills are there, factories are there - but most importantly, the supply chains are there. You can drive a truck from factory to factory to pick up all the pieces you need. Then drop the truck off at Foxconn. They'll make the products and you can put them back into the truck and drop them off at the port or rail yard. That's not something you can just replace overnight.
- tooltalk 5y ago
  Samsung is the largest smartphone-maker in the world (and has been for much of past 10+ years). They ceased all their phone-making operation in China and left for Vietnam a couple of years ago (also most recently closed their last display, shipbuilding operation) -- along with 200+ suppliers, plus 20+ new domestic suppliers created there along the way. Now, most of Samsung phones are made in Vietnam and their output there accounts for some 30% of Vietnam's export and 20% of their GDP (2019). I'm very skeptical that China is the only place Apple can make their products. Sure, Apple doesn't actually "manufacture" anything -- the company outsourced it to Taiwnese CM's like Foxconn, Wistron, and others who have cleary demonstrated that they have no competence, experience, or even desire to build things outside China (see Foxconn's misadventures in Brazil, Wisconsin US). But that shouldnt' be surprising considering that their business model entirely depends on ginormous state subsidies and seemingly unlimited supply of young, unskilled laborers from rural China. Also consider the fact that most critical, high-value components come from not China, but South Korea, Japan, the US (some via TSMC in Taiwan) -- China still makes less than 5% of all chips produced globally (as of 2019 according to US SIA). Of course, they are all assembled/packaged there, but China's contribution to this whole process still accounts for less than 4% of overall value. I just don't buy the argument that China as the world's electronic supply-chain can't be replaced.

polack 5y ago

Just like Google that bent over backwards to please the Chinese censorship and their persecution. Then when Google failed in China (domestic competitors was better) they tried to exit "gracefully" by claiming it's due the Chinese hacking them and pretending it's about ethics...

echelon 5y ago

A Reddit comment [1] on this same article really hit home, > Mr. Cook has watched China's middle class grow to four hundred million while watching the domestic middle class shrink. Like GM, which sells more cars in China than the USA, Apple knows where the market opportunities reside. America needs growth again, whether that's immigration, childbirth and childcare subsidies, or seeking to merge with other democratic nations (Australia, Korea, Japan, Taiwan). America needs to onshore manufacturing of critical chemicals and components. Steel. Electronics. America needs education that is equitable, but it also needs to let academically or extracurricularly gifted students advance to special placement. I want America to be #1. Free speech, being critical of government, and even having the ability to run for president are rights that every person should have. edit: [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/rb2774/comment/hnmdaml/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/rb2774/comment/...

mempko 5y ago
China simply invested more in their people than USA it seems. You now see American business people like Elon Musk promote divestment from the USA in his attack on government deficits.
- justinator 5y ago
  > China simply invested more in their people than USA it seems So long as you're not Muslim.
  - dirtyid 5y ago
    Technically, especially Muslims. The per capita amount spent on securitization, reeducation, labour transfer (jobs programs) for the purpose of sinicizating restive muslims population is massive.
  - autosharp 5y ago
    Those camps didn't build themselves.
  - 5y ago

loudtieblahblah 5y ago

every company - from privacy advocates to those cashing in on social justice - bow to China. Every, last one of them.

hereforphone 5y ago

I have a secret to share. Apple and others may virtual signal but at the end of the day it's all about profits. If you believed otherwise you were mislead. "Think Different" is just a commercial slogan.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
wyattpeak 5y ago
I find this attitude, as common as it is, a bit of a non-argument. Every company is motivated by profits, and yet I have vastly different opinions on the behaviours of different companies. Even when you have one ultimate goal, there are a thousand different ways to go about it, including to behave in ways I find admirable in order to secure my business going forward. It's fairly irrelevant to me why you're behaving the way you are, so long as you are.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  > Every company is motivated by profits, and yet I have vastly different opinions on the behaviours of different companies. Wrong, it is survival bias. Not every company is motivated by profits, but the ones that survive long enough for you to notice are. If the company isn't motivated by profits, is simply doesn't last long enough to be a major player.
  - wyattpeak 5y ago
    That's fair, I should clarify: every public is motivated by profits. I don't actually think it's survivorship bias, my local coffee shop is good to me for little other reason than the owner and I get on well, and they're not likely to go out of business any time soon. I just didn't specify my point well enough.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      Your little coffee shop goes out of business if they don't attract enough business, if they have competitors that provide a better product for example. But even then, you are rewarding their good behavior directly, if you want to scale that up, you and and a bunch of your friends will need to stop buying Apple products to let them know you find their behavior to not be of your liking (and become patrons of the companies that do conform to your moral values). But scaling morality is hard without some sort of restricted market intervention.

Lamad123 5y ago

But they need slave labor from China and fuerdai's money.

8bitsrule 5y ago

So much for throwing a sledgehammer at Big Brother. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I]

jjtheblunt 5y ago
i think Big Brother there is the IBM PC, dominant at the time.
smoldesu 5y ago
This ad aged like milk, considering they stood for a while as The Biggest Brother.
kaidon 5y ago
I have to throw a sledgehammer at the 'T' key on my 2018 Macbook Pro for it to work because of this forsaken butterfly keyboard.
- errcorrectcode 5y ago
  Hackintosh time with a Lenovo.