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Sarco suicide capsule ‘passes legal review’ in Switzerland

ag8 5y ago
> Our aim is to develop an artificial intelligence screening system to establish the person’s mental capacity. I'd like to see how that works!
- criddell 5y ago
  I can imagine it getting into a catch-22 scenario where wanting to die is considered a sign of mental illness and mentally ill people are excluded from using the suicide machine.
  - tomjen3 5y ago
    Then it wouldn't been AI, it would just be the current medical system.
bserge 5y ago
High quality exit bag lol. Actually, I'm surprised no one sells readymade suicide kits. A well made exit bag, or a capsule like this, would be totally legal pretty much anywhere. Hmm, good idea for a business! If I don't use it first :D
paxcoder 5y ago
Pain is a part of life, God is the answer. People belong to God, they have no right to kill themselves. Furthermore, people change their minds when they jump. In short, euthanasia is an abomination
rklaehn 5y ago
Suicide capsules? Reminds me of this short story: https://zerohplovecraft.wordpress.com/2019/09/28/the-green-new-deal/ https://zerohplovecraft.wordpress.com/2019/09/28/the-green-n...
Apocryphon 5y ago
Every day we draw closer to Children of Men https://youtu.be/IacY-MYuQQ0 https://youtu.be/IacY-MYuQQ0 https://youtu.be/QYy80trSPSI https://youtu.be/QYy80trSPSI
gigglesupstairs 5y ago
> A 3D-printed capsule, destined for use in assisted suicide, may legally be operated in Switzerland, according to advice obtained by Exit International, the organisation that developed the ‘Sarco’ machine. > It’s a 3-D printed capsule, activated from the inside by the person intending to die. The machine can be towed anywhere for the death. It can be in an idyllic outdoor setting or in the premises of an assisted suicide organisation, for example. > The person will get into the capsule and lie down. It’s very comfortable. They will be asked a number of questions and when they have answered, they may press the button inside the capsule activating the mechanism in their own time. > The capsule is sitting on a piece of equipment that will flood the interior with nitrogen, rapidly reducing the oxygen level to 1 per cent from 21 per cent. The person will feel a little disoriented and may feel slightly euphoric before they lose consciousness. The whole thing takes about 30 seconds. Death takes place through hypoxia and hypocapnia, oxygen and carbon dioxide deprivation, respectively. There is no panic, no choking feeling.
- annetipasto 5y ago
  this feels like a phenomenal advancement on this front. now if only I could read about it without slipping into existential panic...
  - derbOac 5y ago
    FWIW, this is just automating something that has been in use for some time. The person interviewed has a book and organization advocating for this in various forms for some time.
  - DenisM 5y ago
    Yeah, there is something claustrophobic about this description.
- jonnybgood 5y ago
  What can a person do if they change their mind? I’m assuming it can be stopped. I think about those who jumped from the Golden Gate and survived. Them changing their mind after jumping.
throw03172019 5y ago
I wouldn’t want to be on the QA team here.
- thejackgoode 5y ago
  works on my machine
  - can16358p 5y ago
    They might just test on production.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- sarsway 5y ago
  I heard they have a huge churn rate
MeteorMarc 5y ago
Let,s call this procedure euthanasia instead of suïcide.
- codetrotter 5y ago
  I like the term suicide, because they allow the person whose life it is about do it themselves with a button. Reminds me of the Suicide Booths from Futurama. https://futurama.fandom.com/wiki/Suicide_Booth https://futurama.fandom.com/wiki/Suicide_Booth
- meepmorp 5y ago
  This is literally suicide, as the person within the capsule triggers the thing that kills them. In that way, it's no different than pills or a gun.
  - sprucevoid 5y ago
    I suspect MeteorMarc meant 'euthanasia' in the philosophy sense of a death that is (a1) rationally planned over a period of time and (b1) in the dying persons overall interest. Which can be contrasted with 'suicide' in a sense commonly used in suicide prevention care and research, where the act (a2) often results from temporary cognitive or emotional instability and (b2) is seldom in the dying persons overall interest. You on the other hand perhaps meant to distinguish between the dying person (a) getting assistance vs in dying (b) acting alone. A third termological option is 'assisted dying'. A big complication is that 'euthanasia' comes with quite different historical baggage in different countries.
- schroeding 5y ago
  "Euthanasie", the german word for euthanasia, is *heavily* stained by its meaning during the Nazi era, and the pod is made in (german speaking) switzerland. That's probably one of the main reasons why they called it "suicide capsule", even in english :) Edit: I don't really get why this is downvoted ^^ The link goes to an article that was originaly written in German and only translated by the swiss television station SRF. "Euthanasia" is not a neutral term in German, take a look at the wikipedia entry and how much of the page contains "NS", "Nationalsozialismus" or dates between 1939 and 1945: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasie https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasie It was used as a euphemism by the Nazis, and this still taints it. It has lost much of its original meaning because of this. If you say "Euthanasie" in German, even to someone from switzerland, there is a very high chance people think of it as "the killing of people that disabled, against their will". :/ There is a reason most people use "aktive Sterbehilfe" ("active help to die") instead of "Euthanasie", even though both things mean the same.
detaro 5y ago
> P.N.: Currently a doctor or doctors need to be involved to prescribe the sodium pentobarbital and to confirm the person’s mental capacity. We want to remove any kind of psychiatric review from the process and allow the individual to control the method themselves. Our aim is to develop an artificial intelligence screening system to establish the person’s mental capacity. That sounds like a terrible idea. There are valid concerns about doctor involvement in the process, but AI won't fix those.
- bjt2n3904 5y ago
  This whole thing is a terrible idea. All of it.
  - cadence- 5y ago
    Why? There is no more personal thing than your own life. Why should not we be able to choose when to end it? People will be doing it anyways, just in all the gruesome ways it is usually done. Hopefully this container doubles as a coffin that can be either buried or burnt.
    - otabdeveloper4 5y ago
      You can already kill yourself if you really want to. Nobody can stop you. The whole idea of "assisted suicide" is like Bitcoin - invented for the express purpose of finding and abusing loopholes in the current legal frameworks.
      - kergonath 5y ago
        Sometimes legal frameworks are inhumane, immoral, cruel, and ought to be loopholed. I can think of at least 5 examples right now.
      - gambiting 5y ago
        Yes, someone who is paralyzed from their neck down can easily take their own life, of course. Don't see any issue here. You have to excuse the sarcasm, but if you really can't think of any cases where taking your own life in a dignified manner is not actually possible, then I'm not sure there's any discussion to be had here
politician 5y ago
I’m glad to see this uses nitrogen asphyxiation. It’s the humane alternative. Edit: Clicked the link
- mrshadowgoose 5y ago
  I'm not sure if you're joking, or simply did not read the article. The capsule described in the article is person-sized, and uses nitrogen asphyxiation.
- jack_riminton 5y ago
  When did people stop reading the articles on here? this affliction seems to have spread from Twitter
  - bogwog 5y ago
    It's not even about reading, this guy did not even click the link. If you do, the first thing you see is a picture of the thing.
    - Minor49er 5y ago
      He might have thought it was too big a pill to swallow
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - gwbas1c 5y ago
    The same problem existed on Slashdot 20 years ago. Assuming you have good karma, the easiest thing to do is downvote.
deleted 5y ago
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jasonpeacock 5y ago
Tangentially, this is my frustration with the death penalty - it's way too complicated & error-prone when much simpler, reliable, and humane methods are available like this. Humans are easy to kill, and it's not hard to do so humanely. (Yes, there are many other problems with the death penalty besides the technical execution of it, but you'd think we could at least do that part right.)
- meepmorp 5y ago
  Yeah, with all the problems the US has had acquiring an appropriate cocktail of drugs for lethal injections over the last few years, you'd think someone would look into this kind of thing. Nitrogen is super easy to get.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - sschueller 5y ago
    Or just carbon monoxide. The thing people are so paranoid over in their homes because it is a silent killer.
  - jack_riminton 5y ago
    Some states are experimenting with Nitrogen Article from NYTimes from 2018: https://web.archive.org/web/20210704140110/https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/07/health/death-penalty-nitrogen-executions.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210704140110/https://www.nytim...
  - skocznymroczny 5y ago
    I am not up to date with US lethal injection, but weren't the changes in lethal injections in the US "yeah, it's still a painful death, but we added muscle relaxants so it looks peaceful on the outside and acceptable to the public?"
    - hprotagonist 5y ago
      The changes are of the form that nearly every legit manufacturer of the cocktail refuses to produce it for the purposes of capital punishment. https://www.npr.org/2015/03/11/392375383/states-scramble-to-deal-with-shortages-of-execution-drugs https://www.npr.org/2015/03/11/392375383/states-scramble-to-...
errcorrectcode 5y ago
For a second, I thought "capsule" meant "pill." "Pod" would've been a better word. Obligatory: Does it have "quick and painless", "slow and horrible", and "clumsy bludgeoning" settings? What do they do with the bodies?
- mcguire 5y ago
  Given that conceivably you could print the pod yourself, unless the AI automatically notifies someone no one would know so you would sit in a pod full of nitrogen until someone found you.
  - errcorrectcode 5y ago
    It would be better to already have arrangements pre-paid (Edit: in the US, it's called "pre-need" and can save 80-90% of the costs by buying decades before), and the coroner and the mortician notified. Having someone "find" you isn't a very classy way to go out.
  - errcorrectcode 5y ago
    It seems a little impractical to print yourself given the size of the parts. This idea has too many moving components, I don't think it's a good idea. There are already companies who sell dual-use nitrogen equipment for home brewing and "home brewing."
  - LorenPechtel 5y ago
    What actually matters is the nitrogen, not the pod.
    - basicplus2 5y ago
      Yeh i bought some dodgy nitrogen online and i got air! So i am still alive...
- jfrunyon 5y ago
  Or "booth" (shoutout to Futurama) ;)
deadalus 5y ago
Hoping this pill makes it to the Darknet Markets, I want to die but I don't want to experience pain. I just want a painless exit from this world from where I find no meaning or joy.
- meepmorp 5y ago
  You should take a minute to skim the article.
- smeej 5y ago
  From someone who's felt that way before, I strongly recommend going searching for meaning or joy instead, or inventing your own meaning or joy if you can't find anybody else's idea that does it for you. Not saying it'll be easy, or even promising it'll work. I'm just saying I'm glad I gave it a shot. 10/10 would recommend. YMMV.
- timwaagh 5y ago
  I'm sure there's plenty on there that can kill you already. But before you go maybe try a vacation in Thailand or something.
- schroeding 5y ago
  It's not a pill, but a "capsule" in the "Japanese Capsule Hotel" sense. I feel you. I'm the same, honestly. That's probably the biggest danger of these "safe", "easy" suicide methods - some people just don't commit suicide because they are too scared of a cruel death, not because they are attached to life. Stuff like this will lower the probability of such a cruel death, making suicide less scary, raising the probability of pulling though with it. Not an easy topic. But I really hope you can find something in life before you do it, so you don't have to do it ^^'
- bogwog 5y ago
  If you click the link you'll see a picture of it. It's not a pill, it's a giant capsule you step into. Also, I don't know you, but I'm confident that dying is the wrong solution to whatever problems you're having.
cadence- 5y ago
Wow, even better looking than this: https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/023/876/suicidebooth.jpg https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/023/876/sui... More seriously, I like it. I’m always petrified of dying a slow and painful death from some disease that cannot be cured. I would much rather just use this and be done with it.
- iso1210 5y ago
  Go parachuting
  - LorenPechtel 5y ago
    If you're in good enough shape to go parachuting it's unlikely you're in bad enough shape that suicide is a sane answer.
User23 5y ago
It’s neat that Robert Chambers predicted this well over a century ago in The King in Yellow.
- analog31 5y ago
  Socrates drank hemlock.
  - User23 5y ago
    While Plato presents it as a principled stand, it remains that Socrate's death was the result of a judicial conviction and thus isn't exactly a voluntary suicide.
xwdv 5y ago
The next step for such a machine IMO is something that can automatically cremate the corpse inside the machine and vacuum the ashes, dispensing them into either a canister or into some kind of plumbing network for scattering them high into the air where the wind can carry them.
- mleonhard 5y ago
  Immediate cremation would reduce cost. It would also save loved ones from seeing or dealing with the corpse. The blue tinted windows prevent attendees from seeing the body's color change. My mother died after months of agony from cancer. The mortuary staff came and put the corpse in a black plastic bag and wheeled it out of the house on a stretcher. They used an extremely pungent chemical to disinfect the bed. The chemical smell filled the house. At the funeral, I carefully avoided looking at the corpse. I'm thankful that, in my last memories of her, she was alive and showing me tenderness. I think she and all of us involved would have been better off if she could have used a machine like this several weeks earlier. We could have said goodbye, she would push the button, and then it would be over. EDIT: The machine could refrigerate/freeze/preserve the corpse for ceremonies, until burial/cremation. For burial, the pod could be in two parts, the top part is a casket for burial and the bottom part holds the gas delivery system and refrigerator. They could disconnect and bury the casket without ever opening it. This would eliminate the expensive embalming process. It would also reduce the risk of disease transmission from handling the corpse. This could be useful for regular anticipated deaths, too. The patient could spend their last week or so in the pod bed. What would be the psychological impact of that on the patient and the loved ones? I think it could be a positive impact for most people.
  - garaetjjte 5y ago
    >At the funeral, I carefully avoided looking at the corpse. Around here, there's a tradition of placing the corpse in opened coffin and leaving it in the house for 3 days, praying rosary every day. It just seems horrific to me.
bjt2n3904 5y ago
Is suffering a valid reason to end your own life? How much suffering is the threshold where suicide is "medically necessary"? How can it be quantified, what are the units? Does mental anguish count, or only physical suffering? What about existential suffering? This isn't a treatment, and it's certainly not compassionate. Joni Eareckson-Tada is a testament to the wonderful life that can be lived in spite of suffering, and she has much to say on it that is worth a listen.
- owlbynight 5y ago
  Why does someone else's threshold for anguish have anything to do with you?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- f6v 5y ago
  You remind me of people who talk about vaccination without any knowledge of immunology. Don’t you think the countries that have legalized assisted suicide have already devised methods for quantifying suffering? You just have to spend a load of time to study their frameworks.
  - LorenPechtel 5y ago
    No, they haven't--because it can't be quantified, nor would it do any good if it could be. The patient decides what's too much.
- LorenPechtel 5y ago
  You have no way to quantify the suffering without having been there or at least seen the suffering of someone who has. I don't believe the form of the suffering matters, only the untreatability of whatever is causing the suffering. It has to come down to the person--at what point do they feel the suffering is too much, that whatever remaining life they have isn't worth it. Everyone is going to draw the line at a different place and I don't believe there is a right or wrong. I dislike not having the doctors involved, though--many people won't know if there's something that can be done or not.
vmception 5y ago
> His family sees it differently. His mother begs. “I want you to live no matter what.” But that ignores his pain and his dignity, Yoshi says. This is my observation of suicide hotlines and ambiguous generic anti-suicide advice. It seems this conversation is so immature, patronizing and invalidating. I haven’t found people able to articulate their thoughts on the matter as they just invalidate my comments on social media platforms until they are no longer visible. Do things compatible with self-preservation like me, or don’t.
- mcguire 5y ago
  Only something like 10% of suicides are related to chronic or terminal illnesses. One could reasonably assume that most of the rest are suffering from mental illnesses.
  - vmception 5y ago
    Which means what about the messaging, to you.
  - oxfeed65261 5y ago
    Depression is a chronic, and sometimes terminal, illness.
  - LandR 5y ago
    It doesn't make their experience or suffering invalid. If we are to allow suicide for chronic physical pain, then why not for chronic mental pain?
  - LorenPechtel 5y ago
    And how many are that aren't really counted as medical? I know one medical suicide--she never went to the doctor about what drove her to suicide. She didn't have all that long to live anyway and she perfectly well knew a broken hip meant she would never leave bed again.
    - zamadatix 5y ago
bmmayer1 5y ago
Fascinating. It seems interesting that far more innovation has occurred in the service of corporal punishment (from the torture devices of the middle ages to the guillotine to lethal injection) than in the service of suicide (arguably cyanide tablets?).
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jliptzin 5y ago
The capsule itself is interesting, seems like a peaceful and pain free way to die. I don’t understand why they feel they have to replace doctors and psychiatrists with an AI in prescribing the procedure, one of the worst ideas I have ever heard.
- xwdv 5y ago
  Replacing with AI solves the issue of having to wait weeks to see a doctor and also the costs associated with it.
  - schroeding 5y ago
    But so does replacing it with an algorithm that randomly says "yes" or "no" ^^ (Costs shouldn't be an issue, switzerland has pretty good medical insurances AFAIK)
  - jliptzin 5y ago
    Seems like there’s a more pressing problem to solve if that’s the case. If someone is terminally ill in agonizing pain why does it take weeks to see a doctor for the go ahead for the capsule, and why would that consultation be so expensive?
hliyan 5y ago
For a moment, the catchy trade name and the mention of 3D printing made me worry that this was a startup. Thankfully, Exit International is a non-profit [1]. Imagine if this had been a commercial endeavor: what would one have to resort to, to increase revenue? https://www.exitinternational.net/about-exit/history/ https://www.exitinternational.net/about-exit/history/
- 1f60c 5y ago
  "Before we continue with this assisted suicide, I'd like to thank our sponsor NordVPN"
- sokoloff 5y ago
  > what would one have to resort to, to increase revenue? Well, subscriptions are out…
- garaetjjte 5y ago
  Uh... >Our aim is to develop an artificial intelligence screening system to establish the person’s mental capacity. Naturally there is a lot of scepticism, especially on the part of psychiatrists. But our original conceptual idea is that the person would do an online test and receive a code to access the Sarco.
drakonka 5y ago
I'm glad more options for a peaceful chosen death are becoming available. Between a sudden, unexpected death and dying in pain from a progressive disease, my "ideal" way to die would be chosen death before a progressive disease becomes bad enough to cross some personal threshold of suffering. At the same time, I plan to do whatever I reasonably can to prolong my life (and its quality) for as long as possible. Hopefully by the time this becomes relevant more options like this capsule and others will be readily available. Having said that, his quote about an AI giving you permission to die seems a bit preposterous. The actual method of death he described sounds reasonable, but I don't know that I'd want a machine to permit me to end my own life. Not that having to get a doctor's permission sounds any better. Ideally, nobody should have a say over a life but the individual themselves. I recognize in saying this though that it isn't really that simple, and that there are complex nuances with potential undue influence family members or others surrounding a person can have in the situation.
- LorenPechtel 5y ago
  Yup. There are a lot of ways to die that are worse than dying. Why bother with the pod, though? A big plastic bag and a tank of nitrogen can do the same thing.
- BrandoElFollito 5y ago
  > my "ideal" way to die would be chosen death before a progressive disease becomes bad enough to cross some personal threshold of suffering. It is a long time I wish there was some kind of deice you can implant in your body that would release poison when not responding to some kind of regular request. This would at least solve neurological cases (either degenerative, or alive in a coma which is terrifying, or vegetative state)
ehPReth 5y ago
What’s/where’s the best “available now” service that takes foreigners?
prirun 5y ago
This seems like way too much bother, and it looks expensive. I've read the same thing can be done with a plastic bag over the head and helium gas (maybe nitrogen works just as well). I still believe people should be allowed to have a safe, painless, unmessy death if they want it, for whatever reason. I don't understand why it's such a controversy. Why does a person who wants to leave have to resort to messy, violent methods? Our pets have more access to humane ways to die because of bad situations, than humans.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  > I've read the same thing can be done with a plastic bag over the head and helium gas (maybe nitrogen works just as well). My older brother attempted suicide a few years ago and he tried to asphyxiate himself using nitrogen. When he was found, he was vomiting all over himself. Some part of his plan failed to work, obviously. So I don't know that I'd assume it's a trivial exercise to make a working setup on your own.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
    I'm sorry that happened to your brother, and I hope things are better for him now. I imagine there are probably approaches with complexity between "plastic bag" and "lie-in 3d printed electromechanical apparatus" that would be still be reliable. Particularly, I would imagine a device that seals around the neck but otherwise operates by the same principle would be a lot cheaper and more environmentally friendly to produce. You would have a regulated, switchable input, one arm of which would be the atmosphere and the other arm of which would be a pure nitrogen supply. And then a check valve for output. I hope never to have to use such a device myself . . . dying peacefully in my sleep would be the ideal, like my grandfather did, or of a sudden stroke like my other grandmother and grandfather. But if it comes to pass that I am dying of a painful and debilitating disease, I hope that by then a device like this is easily obtainable.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      > I'm sorry that happened to your brother, and I hope things are better for him now. Yep, that unfortunate time of his life has passed and he is in a much better place. Found someone who helps keep him grounded mentally. Finally qualifies for social security so he isn't struggling just to find a roof to live under. Luckily he was an engineer for many years and so his social security payment isn't half bad. He's going to be okay now, and for that I'm grateful. I agree with your sentiments. I'm glad that I live in Oregon, so we do have assisted suicide as an option. The law makes it somewhat difficult, IMO, but in practice the rules seem to get bent. My father died with assistance a few years back when he had terminal kidney disease. Two nurses came to the house and prepared the pills for him by converting them into a liquid he could drink, they even helped him hold it. He'd have had difficulty doing that himself, so I'm grateful they were willing to help. I don't think the law allows for that much assistance, but maybe I'm wrong. In lieu of euthanasia, I'll pin my hopes on opiates, I guess. A friend of mine passed away about a week ago (cancer) and I had the opportunity to talk with him about three weeks ago -- he was on a significant dose (but not quite lethal) of fentanyl, and he said he had zero pain. They were willing to crank the dose up to whatever it takes -- this seems normal when hospice is involved. No worries about anyone getting addicted. And if the patient inadvertently dies a little early, nobody asks any questions.
guilhas 5y ago
Imagine next year, besides covid vaccines governments, will also be able to mandate suicide pills to save the planet
- fetzu 5y ago
  I wouldn’t worry too much, it sounds like gouvernements are not even able to enforce the « read the article » rule yet; son you probably still have some time ahead of you.
  - guilhas 5y ago
    The same was said about the vaccine mandates
    - fetzu 5y ago
      If you worry that the vaccine might make your reading comprehension worse, don’t.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
It's an interesting new method: hypoxia via nitrogen. I'd prefer this to the drinkable concoctions that put you to sleep after a brief panic of thirst.
- LorenPechtel 5y ago
  It's not new. It's just there isn't a consumer use for nitrogen so it's harder to obtain. Helium has a consumer market in inflating balloons, though. It occurs to me that argon would also work although there isn't a lot of consumer market.
danielovichdk 5y ago
Outrageous. You want me to believe that it's humane to lie in a fucking blue capsule and commit suicide? People need to understand that when and if you really want to kill yourself, this is often done in affect if not the individual is very psychical sick. I don't like this. I think its ethically wrong to have people go away in a plastic box and building an actual product around that. I mean, how inhumane are you trying to make this look? Have people go out in their own bed, have their loved ones next them and have professional medical staff help out during the process.
- xf13d 5y ago
  This is to eliminate the pesky doctor from the situation. Doctors have ethics, morals, and feelings. Doctors, at least ostensibly, agree to "first do no harm". If you take that statement literally that means doctors are obligated to not help a patient commit suicide because killing someone is ostensibly more harm than having them in pain. I know this isn't popular on HN being very pro individual liberty, and I agree people should have control over their own lives, but the inclusion of doctors presents a problem to people who want to enable anyone to kill themselves easily. The sarco is a techno-dystopian solution. Now that the cat is out of the bag, 3d printable, and theoretically reliable, it's only a matter of time before it's used for something other than killing yourself. Or, even worse, it's used to create some new tech startup that starts to approach soylent green. Just throw a nice screen in there with images of pretty scenery and you have the "exit" in the most literal sense. It's humane in theory because the nitrogen provides a painless death. I say in theory because this only works in theory. There have been many failed suicides directed by exit international that demonstrate the method is not as effective as they tout but no one seems to mention the quackery by EI when they talk about them. My concern is these people walk the line between "helping the actual sick have a peaceful death" and "homicidal psychopath" and with this device I believe they are leaning far, far closer to the latter. Creating mass scale suicide devices with the specific intent to end people's lives is immoral and unethical. As stated above, it will only be a matter of time before a company decides to provide suicide-as-a-service.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Yes that was my feeling just about the appearance of the thing. Why does it have to look so cold, alien, sterile?
pengaru 5y ago
Am I alone in wishing the person in the photo would climb in for a live demonstration?
krisoft 5y ago
I think this device is designed to provoke a conversation rather than to solve the problem it says it sets out to solve. There is no reason it has to look like a futuristic coffin. Most people breath only through their nostrils and mouth. A simple mask could do the same job this huge contraption is sets out to do. Except you couldn’t exhibit a scuba mask hooked up to a nitrogen tank in a museum. It wouldn’t have the same visual impact and scifi otherworldlyness.
- jsn 5y ago
  Yeah, this is seriously overengineered. A cellophane hood with elastic collar and a nitrogen nasal cannula is all it takes.
  - majkinetor 5y ago
    That must be exactly how most people envision their death: with cellophane hood and elastic collar.
    - jsn 5y ago
      Hmm, interesting. Are you speaking from experience? Because I definitely am. I watched my mother die a very slow, very painful death from cancer several years ago. I can assure you she would be absolutely genuinely happy to get that cellophane hood and that nitrogen cannula. And, having seen what I've seen, I will also take the hood over some very real alternatives in a heartbeat. Playing dress up with this ridiculously futuristic glass coffin toy instead seems somewhat preposterous when you are facing death.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
“ There is no panic, no choking feeling. “ I’m amazed the author of the article was able to determine this. May they rest in peace.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  The panic/choking feeling comes from a buildup of CO2 in the air and body, not lack of oxygen. We know from experiments/accidents that when CO2 saturation does not happen, people don't feel like they are choking or can't breath even if they are not getting any oxygen.
  - aaronmdjones 5y ago
    Right. Humans don't have a blood oxygen sensing system; you can be trained to recognise the signs of hypoxia (as divers, military pilots, and astronauts are), but there's no physiological alarm for it. This has resulted in many accidental recreational and commercial deaths, where e.g. divers hyperventilate beforehand to extend their time underwater (purging more CO2, so they can stave off that chest-crushing feeling of needing to breathe right now) which leads to blackout and drowning because you ran out of oxygen before the high blood CO2 sensing kicked in, or someone walking into an inert gas storage tank to perform maintenance (mistakenly believing that it had been purged), and just dropping on the spot and asphyxiating with no warning.
- DominikPeters 5y ago
  The reaction to nitrogen is well-understood: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation
  - nosianu 5y ago
    Some comments mentioned that some people who attempted to use nitrogen had problems. According to the Wikipedia a fast switch to breathing a nitrogen and no oxygen atmosphere has "no symptoms at all", but when it happens slowly what happens to people varies: > a slow decrease in oxygen breathing gas content has effects which are quite variable.[5] By contrast, suddenly breathing pure inert gas causes oxygen levels in the blood to fall precipitously, and may lead to unconsciousness in only a few breaths, with no symptoms at all.[3] They cite scuba diving rebreather accidents as one source for experiences. I think there should be people to tell the tale if they got rescued, "never dive alone", after all, and ships for divers should be equipped for emergencies. I guess other than observation of someone committing suicide with this method we may actually have personal experience stories. I looked into this when I had a huge health scare that changed my life (it "only" was heavy metal poisoning and after lots of chelators I'm doing very well, better than before), and nitrogen was what I considered because I saw a chance to actually get my hands on some, compared to drugs. Bad thoughts, but I'll still keep it in mind in case I ever need it. Living through all the heavy metal issues was bad enough but at least I had hope. If it's similar or worse problems or even pain with no hope I don't want to have to endure.
newintellectual 5y ago
Simple fact: everybody dies. The remaining question is whether you have any control over it.
bobthechef 5y ago
The nihilistic culture of death is well established, so I'm surprised it took this long or if this thing can truly be said to be "new".
duxup 5y ago
There was PBS Frontline episode about a man who after being diagnosed with ALS traveled to Switzerland to die. They follow him until the very end. Very powerful episode, I still remember it vividly. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/suicidetourist/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/suicidetourist/
scruple 5y ago
But weed is still illegal over there, right?
- fetzu 5y ago
  Because weed goes hand-in-hand with assisted suicide how? Not illegal, CBD/low THC (-1%) cannabis has been legal for a while, and « weed » can be prescribed medically.
questiondev 5y ago
my anxiety is getting the best of me whenever i see this type of stuff i always think of how a state can abuse it to get rid of people legally and use an excuse. but then again i am extremely distrusting of new “progress” in general.
cambaceres 5y ago
I wonder how they test these.
qualudeheart 5y ago
I find this very depressing.
- BrandoElFollito 5y ago
  I find it very reassuring that there is a place around me where I can do this (I am in France, and have Switzerland, the Netherlands and BElgium nearby).
aaron695 5y ago
This is 100% because of Futurama. But we'll ignore that? Sure it's a funny meme, and I'm happy for memes to become real even at the cost of human lives, 200 million dollar movies also cost a lot of lives. But I'm not going to pretend I'm stupid just so we as a species can meme off a cartoon show without mentioning it. Own it. It ok it's off Futurama and a lot of people love Futurama and it was originally dystopian. We also love dystopian, probably more for other people though. FYI Nitschke's The Deliverance Machine has been used legally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_device https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_device you could see it at art galleries. Wiki says the British Science Museum has the one that was used on people.
isodev 5y ago
Excellent! Every person should have the right to make the choice for themselves.
amne 5y ago
Has anyone heard from the QA team?
charles_f 5y ago
> A 3D-printed capsule How is the 3d printing of any relevance? Is as relevant a claim as "a lipo powered capsule" or "a raspberry pi controlled capsule"
diveanon 5y ago
Just in time for millenials to start thinking about retirement. In all serious though, my family does not age well and I have actively thought about this as an end of life option vs decades of mental degredation. I doubt it will ever be available in the United States.
thuccess129 5y ago
Expect to find its way on battlefield in total war next between machines and humans.
guilhas 5y ago
I would be more in favour of legal guns instead of assisted suicide or euthanasia
Terry_Roll 5y ago
So nobody asks to be born. Religion tells you that some psychologically twisted individuals invented god because they recognised the best way to destroy someone is let their conscience do it. God is an extremist because not only did he/it/she/whatever/a-z invent the utopian paradise called heaven, he also invented the other extreme nightmare called hell. God does pestilence, disease & suffering like no other, yet if he is all powerful and all knowing, why the need to treat his followers like he does? Religions, Royalty & Govt's will always exist as long as stupid people exist to support them. Mindless breeding as over populated the planet. Nobody has the right, nor does science have the right to dig into my privacy, yet its being stolen by countless entities whether I like it or not. Modern medicine has been and still is, just academic conformity justifying experimentation based on the current knowledge and theories. We dont live in a meritocracy but more like an oligarchy. You can know to much and then go, is that it too life? Meh! Fed up with the unimaginative cycles forced onto us. Even Hollywood is out of ideas so is now doing gender reversal - Ghostbusters! Facebook and social media in general tells me who I should avoid. There is no peace and quiet anymore, its hard to escape the constant background noise of vehicles and technology. The air stinks with pollution. Food is crap and processed too much. Produce is no longer healthy. Too much surveillance. I see Disney or Pixar was on the money with Wall-E I couldnt bring kids into the world today like it is today. I didnt realise how many legal ways there are too kill people, but its very clever! Too much conformity, in academia, govts, media, its all become too alike, but Rat Utopia aka Behavioral sink explains what we are seeing & experiencing from those in charge. Lost the urge to fight, and thats probably the most significant factor, its the basic instinct the military know how to develop and control. After all basic training is a test to see if you can control yourself on the drill square with some drill sargeant shouting and spitting into your ears and face to see if you will react or not. The military do violence the best, its their job to know everything about it in case of war and this also means ignoring the laws and rules when fighting for survival. Why would someone want to suicide/euthanise themselves and involve anyone else, beyond disposal of the body. Why does science need to know why someone wants to end their life, surely they should recognise its none of their business so why should lawyers, judges, doctors, politicians get involved. Why should they control your life???
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ag8 5y ago

> Our aim is to develop an artificial intelligence screening system to establish the person’s mental capacity. I'd like to see how that works!

criddell 5y ago
I can imagine it getting into a catch-22 scenario where wanting to die is considered a sign of mental illness and mentally ill people are excluded from using the suicide machine.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  Then it wouldn't been AI, it would just be the current medical system.

bserge 5y ago

High quality exit bag lol. Actually, I'm surprised no one sells readymade suicide kits. A well made exit bag, or a capsule like this, would be totally legal pretty much anywhere. Hmm, good idea for a business! If I don't use it first :D

paxcoder 5y ago

Pain is a part of life, God is the answer. People belong to God, they have no right to kill themselves. Furthermore, people change their minds when they jump. In short, euthanasia is an abomination

rklaehn 5y ago

Suicide capsules? Reminds me of this short story: https://zerohplovecraft.wordpress.com/2019/09/28/the-green-new-deal/ https://zerohplovecraft.wordpress.com/2019/09/28/the-green-n...

Apocryphon 5y ago

Every day we draw closer to Children of Men https://youtu.be/IacY-MYuQQ0 https://youtu.be/IacY-MYuQQ0 https://youtu.be/QYy80trSPSI https://youtu.be/QYy80trSPSI

gigglesupstairs 5y ago

> A 3D-printed capsule, destined for use in assisted suicide, may legally be operated in Switzerland, according to advice obtained by Exit International, the organisation that developed the ‘Sarco’ machine. > It’s a 3-D printed capsule, activated from the inside by the person intending to die. The machine can be towed anywhere for the death. It can be in an idyllic outdoor setting or in the premises of an assisted suicide organisation, for example. > The person will get into the capsule and lie down. It’s very comfortable. They will be asked a number of questions and when they have answered, they may press the button inside the capsule activating the mechanism in their own time. > The capsule is sitting on a piece of equipment that will flood the interior with nitrogen, rapidly reducing the oxygen level to 1 per cent from 21 per cent. The person will feel a little disoriented and may feel slightly euphoric before they lose consciousness. The whole thing takes about 30 seconds. Death takes place through hypoxia and hypocapnia, oxygen and carbon dioxide deprivation, respectively. There is no panic, no choking feeling.

annetipasto 5y ago
this feels like a phenomenal advancement on this front. now if only I could read about it without slipping into existential panic...
- derbOac 5y ago
  FWIW, this is just automating something that has been in use for some time. The person interviewed has a book and organization advocating for this in various forms for some time.
- DenisM 5y ago
  Yeah, there is something claustrophobic about this description.
jonnybgood 5y ago
What can a person do if they change their mind? I’m assuming it can be stopped. I think about those who jumped from the Golden Gate and survived. Them changing their mind after jumping.

throw03172019 5y ago

I wouldn’t want to be on the QA team here.

thejackgoode 5y ago
works on my machine
- can16358p 5y ago
  They might just test on production.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
sarsway 5y ago
I heard they have a huge churn rate

MeteorMarc 5y ago

Let,s call this procedure euthanasia instead of suïcide.

codetrotter 5y ago
I like the term suicide, because they allow the person whose life it is about do it themselves with a button. Reminds me of the Suicide Booths from Futurama. https://futurama.fandom.com/wiki/Suicide_Booth https://futurama.fandom.com/wiki/Suicide_Booth
meepmorp 5y ago
This is literally suicide, as the person within the capsule triggers the thing that kills them. In that way, it's no different than pills or a gun.
- sprucevoid 5y ago
  I suspect MeteorMarc meant 'euthanasia' in the philosophy sense of a death that is (a1) rationally planned over a period of time and (b1) in the dying persons overall interest. Which can be contrasted with 'suicide' in a sense commonly used in suicide prevention care and research, where the act (a2) often results from temporary cognitive or emotional instability and (b2) is seldom in the dying persons overall interest. You on the other hand perhaps meant to distinguish between the dying person (a) getting assistance vs in dying (b) acting alone. A third termological option is 'assisted dying'. A big complication is that 'euthanasia' comes with quite different historical baggage in different countries.
schroeding 5y ago
"Euthanasie", the german word for euthanasia, is *heavily* stained by its meaning during the Nazi era, and the pod is made in (german speaking) switzerland. That's probably one of the main reasons why they called it "suicide capsule", even in english :) Edit: I don't really get why this is downvoted ^^ The link goes to an article that was originaly written in German and only translated by the swiss television station SRF. "Euthanasia" is not a neutral term in German, take a look at the wikipedia entry and how much of the page contains "NS", "Nationalsozialismus" or dates between 1939 and 1945: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasie https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasie It was used as a euphemism by the Nazis, and this still taints it. It has lost much of its original meaning because of this. If you say "Euthanasie" in German, even to someone from switzerland, there is a very high chance people think of it as "the killing of people that disabled, against their will". :/ There is a reason most people use "aktive Sterbehilfe" ("active help to die") instead of "Euthanasie", even though both things mean the same.

detaro 5y ago

> P.N.: Currently a doctor or doctors need to be involved to prescribe the sodium pentobarbital and to confirm the person’s mental capacity. We want to remove any kind of psychiatric review from the process and allow the individual to control the method themselves. Our aim is to develop an artificial intelligence screening system to establish the person’s mental capacity. That sounds like a terrible idea. There are valid concerns about doctor involvement in the process, but AI won't fix those.

bjt2n3904 5y ago
This whole thing is a terrible idea. All of it.
- cadence- 5y ago
  Why? There is no more personal thing than your own life. Why should not we be able to choose when to end it? People will be doing it anyways, just in all the gruesome ways it is usually done. Hopefully this container doubles as a coffin that can be either buried or burnt.
  - otabdeveloper4 5y ago
    You can already kill yourself if you really want to. Nobody can stop you. The whole idea of "assisted suicide" is like Bitcoin - invented for the express purpose of finding and abusing loopholes in the current legal frameworks.
    - kergonath 5y ago
      Sometimes legal frameworks are inhumane, immoral, cruel, and ought to be loopholed. I can think of at least 5 examples right now.
    - gambiting 5y ago
      Yes, someone who is paralyzed from their neck down can easily take their own life, of course. Don't see any issue here. You have to excuse the sarcasm, but if you really can't think of any cases where taking your own life in a dignified manner is not actually possible, then I'm not sure there's any discussion to be had here

politician 5y ago

I’m glad to see this uses nitrogen asphyxiation. It’s the humane alternative. Edit: Clicked the link

mrshadowgoose 5y ago
I'm not sure if you're joking, or simply did not read the article. The capsule described in the article is person-sized, and uses nitrogen asphyxiation.
jack_riminton 5y ago
When did people stop reading the articles on here? this affliction seems to have spread from Twitter
- bogwog 5y ago
  It's not even about reading, this guy did not even click the link. If you do, the first thing you see is a picture of the thing.
  - Minor49er 5y ago
    He might have thought it was too big a pill to swallow
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- gwbas1c 5y ago
  The same problem existed on Slashdot 20 years ago. Assuming you have good karma, the easiest thing to do is downvote.

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jasonpeacock 5y ago

Tangentially, this is my frustration with the death penalty - it's way too complicated & error-prone when much simpler, reliable, and humane methods are available like this. Humans are easy to kill, and it's not hard to do so humanely. (Yes, there are many other problems with the death penalty besides the technical execution of it, but you'd think we could at least do that part right.)

meepmorp 5y ago
Yeah, with all the problems the US has had acquiring an appropriate cocktail of drugs for lethal injections over the last few years, you'd think someone would look into this kind of thing. Nitrogen is super easy to get.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- sschueller 5y ago
  Or just carbon monoxide. The thing people are so paranoid over in their homes because it is a silent killer.
- jack_riminton 5y ago
  Some states are experimenting with Nitrogen Article from NYTimes from 2018: https://web.archive.org/web/20210704140110/https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/07/health/death-penalty-nitrogen-executions.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210704140110/https://www.nytim...
- skocznymroczny 5y ago
  I am not up to date with US lethal injection, but weren't the changes in lethal injections in the US "yeah, it's still a painful death, but we added muscle relaxants so it looks peaceful on the outside and acceptable to the public?"
  - hprotagonist 5y ago
    The changes are of the form that nearly every legit manufacturer of the cocktail refuses to produce it for the purposes of capital punishment. https://www.npr.org/2015/03/11/392375383/states-scramble-to-deal-with-shortages-of-execution-drugs https://www.npr.org/2015/03/11/392375383/states-scramble-to-...

errcorrectcode 5y ago

For a second, I thought "capsule" meant "pill." "Pod" would've been a better word. Obligatory: Does it have "quick and painless", "slow and horrible", and "clumsy bludgeoning" settings? What do they do with the bodies?

mcguire 5y ago
Given that conceivably you could print the pod yourself, unless the AI automatically notifies someone no one would know so you would sit in a pod full of nitrogen until someone found you.
- errcorrectcode 5y ago
  It would be better to already have arrangements pre-paid (Edit: in the US, it's called "pre-need" and can save 80-90% of the costs by buying decades before), and the coroner and the mortician notified. Having someone "find" you isn't a very classy way to go out.
- errcorrectcode 5y ago
  It seems a little impractical to print yourself given the size of the parts. This idea has too many moving components, I don't think it's a good idea. There are already companies who sell dual-use nitrogen equipment for home brewing and "home brewing."
- LorenPechtel 5y ago
  What actually matters is the nitrogen, not the pod.
  - basicplus2 5y ago
    Yeh i bought some dodgy nitrogen online and i got air! So i am still alive...
jfrunyon 5y ago
Or "booth" (shoutout to Futurama) ;)

deadalus 5y ago

Hoping this pill makes it to the Darknet Markets, I want to die but I don't want to experience pain. I just want a painless exit from this world from where I find no meaning or joy.

meepmorp 5y ago
You should take a minute to skim the article.
smeej 5y ago
From someone who's felt that way before, I strongly recommend going searching for meaning or joy instead, or inventing your own meaning or joy if you can't find anybody else's idea that does it for you. Not saying it'll be easy, or even promising it'll work. I'm just saying I'm glad I gave it a shot. 10/10 would recommend. YMMV.
timwaagh 5y ago
I'm sure there's plenty on there that can kill you already. But before you go maybe try a vacation in Thailand or something.
schroeding 5y ago
It's not a pill, but a "capsule" in the "Japanese Capsule Hotel" sense. I feel you. I'm the same, honestly. That's probably the biggest danger of these "safe", "easy" suicide methods - some people just don't commit suicide because they are too scared of a cruel death, not because they are attached to life. Stuff like this will lower the probability of such a cruel death, making suicide less scary, raising the probability of pulling though with it. Not an easy topic. But I really hope you can find something in life before you do it, so you don't have to do it ^^'
bogwog 5y ago
If you click the link you'll see a picture of it. It's not a pill, it's a giant capsule you step into. Also, I don't know you, but I'm confident that dying is the wrong solution to whatever problems you're having.

cadence- 5y ago

Wow, even better looking than this: https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/023/876/suicidebooth.jpg https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/023/876/sui... More seriously, I like it. I’m always petrified of dying a slow and painful death from some disease that cannot be cured. I would much rather just use this and be done with it.

iso1210 5y ago
Go parachuting
- LorenPechtel 5y ago
  If you're in good enough shape to go parachuting it's unlikely you're in bad enough shape that suicide is a sane answer.

User23 5y ago

It’s neat that Robert Chambers predicted this well over a century ago in The King in Yellow.

analog31 5y ago
Socrates drank hemlock.
- User23 5y ago
  While Plato presents it as a principled stand, it remains that Socrate's death was the result of a judicial conviction and thus isn't exactly a voluntary suicide.

xwdv 5y ago

The next step for such a machine IMO is something that can automatically cremate the corpse inside the machine and vacuum the ashes, dispensing them into either a canister or into some kind of plumbing network for scattering them high into the air where the wind can carry them.

mleonhard 5y ago
Immediate cremation would reduce cost. It would also save loved ones from seeing or dealing with the corpse. The blue tinted windows prevent attendees from seeing the body's color change. My mother died after months of agony from cancer. The mortuary staff came and put the corpse in a black plastic bag and wheeled it out of the house on a stretcher. They used an extremely pungent chemical to disinfect the bed. The chemical smell filled the house. At the funeral, I carefully avoided looking at the corpse. I'm thankful that, in my last memories of her, she was alive and showing me tenderness. I think she and all of us involved would have been better off if she could have used a machine like this several weeks earlier. We could have said goodbye, she would push the button, and then it would be over. EDIT: The machine could refrigerate/freeze/preserve the corpse for ceremonies, until burial/cremation. For burial, the pod could be in two parts, the top part is a casket for burial and the bottom part holds the gas delivery system and refrigerator. They could disconnect and bury the casket without ever opening it. This would eliminate the expensive embalming process. It would also reduce the risk of disease transmission from handling the corpse. This could be useful for regular anticipated deaths, too. The patient could spend their last week or so in the pod bed. What would be the psychological impact of that on the patient and the loved ones? I think it could be a positive impact for most people.
- garaetjjte 5y ago
  >At the funeral, I carefully avoided looking at the corpse. Around here, there's a tradition of placing the corpse in opened coffin and leaving it in the house for 3 days, praying rosary every day. It just seems horrific to me.

bjt2n3904 5y ago

Is suffering a valid reason to end your own life? How much suffering is the threshold where suicide is "medically necessary"? How can it be quantified, what are the units? Does mental anguish count, or only physical suffering? What about existential suffering? This isn't a treatment, and it's certainly not compassionate. Joni Eareckson-Tada is a testament to the wonderful life that can be lived in spite of suffering, and she has much to say on it that is worth a listen.

owlbynight 5y ago
Why does someone else's threshold for anguish have anything to do with you?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
f6v 5y ago
You remind me of people who talk about vaccination without any knowledge of immunology. Don’t you think the countries that have legalized assisted suicide have already devised methods for quantifying suffering? You just have to spend a load of time to study their frameworks.
- LorenPechtel 5y ago
  No, they haven't--because it can't be quantified, nor would it do any good if it could be. The patient decides what's too much.
LorenPechtel 5y ago
You have no way to quantify the suffering without having been there or at least seen the suffering of someone who has. I don't believe the form of the suffering matters, only the untreatability of whatever is causing the suffering. It has to come down to the person--at what point do they feel the suffering is too much, that whatever remaining life they have isn't worth it. Everyone is going to draw the line at a different place and I don't believe there is a right or wrong. I dislike not having the doctors involved, though--many people won't know if there's something that can be done or not.

vmception 5y ago

> His family sees it differently. His mother begs. “I want you to live no matter what.” But that ignores his pain and his dignity, Yoshi says. This is my observation of suicide hotlines and ambiguous generic anti-suicide advice. It seems this conversation is so immature, patronizing and invalidating. I haven’t found people able to articulate their thoughts on the matter as they just invalidate my comments on social media platforms until they are no longer visible. Do things compatible with self-preservation like me, or don’t.

mcguire 5y ago
Only something like 10% of suicides are related to chronic or terminal illnesses. One could reasonably assume that most of the rest are suffering from mental illnesses.
- vmception 5y ago
  Which means what about the messaging, to you.
- oxfeed65261 5y ago
  Depression is a chronic, and sometimes terminal, illness.
- LandR 5y ago
  It doesn't make their experience or suffering invalid. If we are to allow suicide for chronic physical pain, then why not for chronic mental pain?
- LorenPechtel 5y ago
  And how many are that aren't really counted as medical? I know one medical suicide--she never went to the doctor about what drove her to suicide. She didn't have all that long to live anyway and she perfectly well knew a broken hip meant she would never leave bed again.
  - zamadatix 5y ago

bmmayer1 5y ago

Fascinating. It seems interesting that far more innovation has occurred in the service of corporal punishment (from the torture devices of the middle ages to the guillotine to lethal injection) than in the service of suicide (arguably cyanide tablets?).

deleted 5y ago

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jliptzin 5y ago

The capsule itself is interesting, seems like a peaceful and pain free way to die. I don’t understand why they feel they have to replace doctors and psychiatrists with an AI in prescribing the procedure, one of the worst ideas I have ever heard.

xwdv 5y ago
Replacing with AI solves the issue of having to wait weeks to see a doctor and also the costs associated with it.
- schroeding 5y ago
  But so does replacing it with an algorithm that randomly says "yes" or "no" ^^ (Costs shouldn't be an issue, switzerland has pretty good medical insurances AFAIK)
- jliptzin 5y ago
  Seems like there’s a more pressing problem to solve if that’s the case. If someone is terminally ill in agonizing pain why does it take weeks to see a doctor for the go ahead for the capsule, and why would that consultation be so expensive?

hliyan 5y ago

For a moment, the catchy trade name and the mention of 3D printing made me worry that this was a startup. Thankfully, Exit International is a non-profit [1]. Imagine if this had been a commercial endeavor: what would one have to resort to, to increase revenue? https://www.exitinternational.net/about-exit/history/ https://www.exitinternational.net/about-exit/history/

1f60c 5y ago
"Before we continue with this assisted suicide, I'd like to thank our sponsor NordVPN"
sokoloff 5y ago
> what would one have to resort to, to increase revenue? Well, subscriptions are out…
garaetjjte 5y ago
Uh... >Our aim is to develop an artificial intelligence screening system to establish the person’s mental capacity. Naturally there is a lot of scepticism, especially on the part of psychiatrists. But our original conceptual idea is that the person would do an online test and receive a code to access the Sarco.

drakonka 5y ago

I'm glad more options for a peaceful chosen death are becoming available. Between a sudden, unexpected death and dying in pain from a progressive disease, my "ideal" way to die would be chosen death before a progressive disease becomes bad enough to cross some personal threshold of suffering. At the same time, I plan to do whatever I reasonably can to prolong my life (and its quality) for as long as possible. Hopefully by the time this becomes relevant more options like this capsule and others will be readily available. Having said that, his quote about an AI giving you permission to die seems a bit preposterous. The actual method of death he described sounds reasonable, but I don't know that I'd want a machine to permit me to end my own life. Not that having to get a doctor's permission sounds any better. Ideally, nobody should have a say over a life but the individual themselves. I recognize in saying this though that it isn't really that simple, and that there are complex nuances with potential undue influence family members or others surrounding a person can have in the situation.

LorenPechtel 5y ago
Yup. There are a lot of ways to die that are worse than dying. Why bother with the pod, though? A big plastic bag and a tank of nitrogen can do the same thing.
BrandoElFollito 5y ago
> my "ideal" way to die would be chosen death before a progressive disease becomes bad enough to cross some personal threshold of suffering. It is a long time I wish there was some kind of deice you can implant in your body that would release poison when not responding to some kind of regular request. This would at least solve neurological cases (either degenerative, or alive in a coma which is terrifying, or vegetative state)

ehPReth 5y ago

What’s/where’s the best “available now” service that takes foreigners?

prirun 5y ago

This seems like way too much bother, and it looks expensive. I've read the same thing can be done with a plastic bag over the head and helium gas (maybe nitrogen works just as well). I still believe people should be allowed to have a safe, painless, unmessy death if they want it, for whatever reason. I don't understand why it's such a controversy. Why does a person who wants to leave have to resort to messy, violent methods? Our pets have more access to humane ways to die because of bad situations, than humans.

rootusrootus 5y ago
> I've read the same thing can be done with a plastic bag over the head and helium gas (maybe nitrogen works just as well). My older brother attempted suicide a few years ago and he tried to asphyxiate himself using nitrogen. When he was found, he was vomiting all over himself. Some part of his plan failed to work, obviously. So I don't know that I'd assume it's a trivial exercise to make a working setup on your own.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  I'm sorry that happened to your brother, and I hope things are better for him now. I imagine there are probably approaches with complexity between "plastic bag" and "lie-in 3d printed electromechanical apparatus" that would be still be reliable. Particularly, I would imagine a device that seals around the neck but otherwise operates by the same principle would be a lot cheaper and more environmentally friendly to produce. You would have a regulated, switchable input, one arm of which would be the atmosphere and the other arm of which would be a pure nitrogen supply. And then a check valve for output. I hope never to have to use such a device myself . . . dying peacefully in my sleep would be the ideal, like my grandfather did, or of a sudden stroke like my other grandmother and grandfather. But if it comes to pass that I am dying of a painful and debilitating disease, I hope that by then a device like this is easily obtainable.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    > I'm sorry that happened to your brother, and I hope things are better for him now. Yep, that unfortunate time of his life has passed and he is in a much better place. Found someone who helps keep him grounded mentally. Finally qualifies for social security so he isn't struggling just to find a roof to live under. Luckily he was an engineer for many years and so his social security payment isn't half bad. He's going to be okay now, and for that I'm grateful. I agree with your sentiments. I'm glad that I live in Oregon, so we do have assisted suicide as an option. The law makes it somewhat difficult, IMO, but in practice the rules seem to get bent. My father died with assistance a few years back when he had terminal kidney disease. Two nurses came to the house and prepared the pills for him by converting them into a liquid he could drink, they even helped him hold it. He'd have had difficulty doing that himself, so I'm grateful they were willing to help. I don't think the law allows for that much assistance, but maybe I'm wrong. In lieu of euthanasia, I'll pin my hopes on opiates, I guess. A friend of mine passed away about a week ago (cancer) and I had the opportunity to talk with him about three weeks ago -- he was on a significant dose (but not quite lethal) of fentanyl, and he said he had zero pain. They were willing to crank the dose up to whatever it takes -- this seems normal when hospice is involved. No worries about anyone getting addicted. And if the patient inadvertently dies a little early, nobody asks any questions.

guilhas 5y ago

Imagine next year, besides covid vaccines governments, will also be able to mandate suicide pills to save the planet

fetzu 5y ago
I wouldn’t worry too much, it sounds like gouvernements are not even able to enforce the « read the article » rule yet; son you probably still have some time ahead of you.
- guilhas 5y ago
  The same was said about the vaccine mandates
  - fetzu 5y ago
    If you worry that the vaccine might make your reading comprehension worse, don’t.

SavantIdiot 5y ago

It's an interesting new method: hypoxia via nitrogen. I'd prefer this to the drinkable concoctions that put you to sleep after a brief panic of thirst.

LorenPechtel 5y ago
It's not new. It's just there isn't a consumer use for nitrogen so it's harder to obtain. Helium has a consumer market in inflating balloons, though. It occurs to me that argon would also work although there isn't a lot of consumer market.

danielovichdk 5y ago

Outrageous. You want me to believe that it's humane to lie in a fucking blue capsule and commit suicide? People need to understand that when and if you really want to kill yourself, this is often done in affect if not the individual is very psychical sick. I don't like this. I think its ethically wrong to have people go away in a plastic box and building an actual product around that. I mean, how inhumane are you trying to make this look? Have people go out in their own bed, have their loved ones next them and have professional medical staff help out during the process.

xf13d 5y ago
This is to eliminate the pesky doctor from the situation. Doctors have ethics, morals, and feelings. Doctors, at least ostensibly, agree to "first do no harm". If you take that statement literally that means doctors are obligated to not help a patient commit suicide because killing someone is ostensibly more harm than having them in pain. I know this isn't popular on HN being very pro individual liberty, and I agree people should have control over their own lives, but the inclusion of doctors presents a problem to people who want to enable anyone to kill themselves easily. The sarco is a techno-dystopian solution. Now that the cat is out of the bag, 3d printable, and theoretically reliable, it's only a matter of time before it's used for something other than killing yourself. Or, even worse, it's used to create some new tech startup that starts to approach soylent green. Just throw a nice screen in there with images of pretty scenery and you have the "exit" in the most literal sense. It's humane in theory because the nitrogen provides a painless death. I say in theory because this only works in theory. There have been many failed suicides directed by exit international that demonstrate the method is not as effective as they tout but no one seems to mention the quackery by EI when they talk about them. My concern is these people walk the line between "helping the actual sick have a peaceful death" and "homicidal psychopath" and with this device I believe they are leaning far, far closer to the latter. Creating mass scale suicide devices with the specific intent to end people's lives is immoral and unethical. As stated above, it will only be a matter of time before a company decides to provide suicide-as-a-service.
throwawayboise 5y ago
Yes that was my feeling just about the appearance of the thing. Why does it have to look so cold, alien, sterile?

pengaru 5y ago

Am I alone in wishing the person in the photo would climb in for a live demonstration?

krisoft 5y ago

I think this device is designed to provoke a conversation rather than to solve the problem it says it sets out to solve. There is no reason it has to look like a futuristic coffin. Most people breath only through their nostrils and mouth. A simple mask could do the same job this huge contraption is sets out to do. Except you couldn’t exhibit a scuba mask hooked up to a nitrogen tank in a museum. It wouldn’t have the same visual impact and scifi otherworldlyness.

jsn 5y ago
Yeah, this is seriously overengineered. A cellophane hood with elastic collar and a nitrogen nasal cannula is all it takes.
- majkinetor 5y ago
  That must be exactly how most people envision their death: with cellophane hood and elastic collar.
  - jsn 5y ago
    Hmm, interesting. Are you speaking from experience? Because I definitely am. I watched my mother die a very slow, very painful death from cancer several years ago. I can assure you she would be absolutely genuinely happy to get that cellophane hood and that nitrogen cannula. And, having seen what I've seen, I will also take the hood over some very real alternatives in a heartbeat. Playing dress up with this ridiculously futuristic glass coffin toy instead seems somewhat preposterous when you are facing death.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

“ There is no panic, no choking feeling. “ I’m amazed the author of the article was able to determine this. May they rest in peace.

throwawayboise 5y ago
The panic/choking feeling comes from a buildup of CO2 in the air and body, not lack of oxygen. We know from experiments/accidents that when CO2 saturation does not happen, people don't feel like they are choking or can't breath even if they are not getting any oxygen.
- aaronmdjones 5y ago
  Right. Humans don't have a blood oxygen sensing system; you can be trained to recognise the signs of hypoxia (as divers, military pilots, and astronauts are), but there's no physiological alarm for it. This has resulted in many accidental recreational and commercial deaths, where e.g. divers hyperventilate beforehand to extend their time underwater (purging more CO2, so they can stave off that chest-crushing feeling of needing to breathe right now) which leads to blackout and drowning because you ran out of oxygen before the high blood CO2 sensing kicked in, or someone walking into an inert gas storage tank to perform maintenance (mistakenly believing that it had been purged), and just dropping on the spot and asphyxiating with no warning.
DominikPeters 5y ago
The reaction to nitrogen is well-understood: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation
- nosianu 5y ago
  Some comments mentioned that some people who attempted to use nitrogen had problems. According to the Wikipedia a fast switch to breathing a nitrogen and no oxygen atmosphere has "no symptoms at all", but when it happens slowly what happens to people varies: > a slow decrease in oxygen breathing gas content has effects which are quite variable.[5] By contrast, suddenly breathing pure inert gas causes oxygen levels in the blood to fall precipitously, and may lead to unconsciousness in only a few breaths, with no symptoms at all.[3] They cite scuba diving rebreather accidents as one source for experiences. I think there should be people to tell the tale if they got rescued, "never dive alone", after all, and ships for divers should be equipped for emergencies. I guess other than observation of someone committing suicide with this method we may actually have personal experience stories. I looked into this when I had a huge health scare that changed my life (it "only" was heavy metal poisoning and after lots of chelators I'm doing very well, better than before), and nitrogen was what I considered because I saw a chance to actually get my hands on some, compared to drugs. Bad thoughts, but I'll still keep it in mind in case I ever need it. Living through all the heavy metal issues was bad enough but at least I had hope. If it's similar or worse problems or even pain with no hope I don't want to have to endure.

newintellectual 5y ago

Simple fact: everybody dies. The remaining question is whether you have any control over it.

bobthechef 5y ago

The nihilistic culture of death is well established, so I'm surprised it took this long or if this thing can truly be said to be "new".

duxup 5y ago

There was PBS Frontline episode about a man who after being diagnosed with ALS traveled to Switzerland to die. They follow him until the very end. Very powerful episode, I still remember it vividly. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/suicidetourist/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/suicidetourist/

scruple 5y ago

But weed is still illegal over there, right?

fetzu 5y ago
Because weed goes hand-in-hand with assisted suicide how? Not illegal, CBD/low THC (-1%) cannabis has been legal for a while, and « weed » can be prescribed medically.

questiondev 5y ago

my anxiety is getting the best of me whenever i see this type of stuff i always think of how a state can abuse it to get rid of people legally and use an excuse. but then again i am extremely distrusting of new “progress” in general.

cambaceres 5y ago

I wonder how they test these.

qualudeheart 5y ago

I find this very depressing.

BrandoElFollito 5y ago
I find it very reassuring that there is a place around me where I can do this (I am in France, and have Switzerland, the Netherlands and BElgium nearby).

aaron695 5y ago

This is 100% because of Futurama. But we'll ignore that? Sure it's a funny meme, and I'm happy for memes to become real even at the cost of human lives, 200 million dollar movies also cost a lot of lives. But I'm not going to pretend I'm stupid just so we as a species can meme off a cartoon show without mentioning it. Own it. It ok it's off Futurama and a lot of people love Futurama and it was originally dystopian. We also love dystopian, probably more for other people though. FYI Nitschke's The Deliverance Machine has been used legally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_device https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_device you could see it at art galleries. Wiki says the British Science Museum has the one that was used on people.

isodev 5y ago

Excellent! Every person should have the right to make the choice for themselves.

amne 5y ago

Has anyone heard from the QA team?

charles_f 5y ago

> A 3D-printed capsule How is the 3d printing of any relevance? Is as relevant a claim as "a lipo powered capsule" or "a raspberry pi controlled capsule"

diveanon 5y ago

Just in time for millenials to start thinking about retirement. In all serious though, my family does not age well and I have actively thought about this as an end of life option vs decades of mental degredation. I doubt it will ever be available in the United States.

thuccess129 5y ago

Expect to find its way on battlefield in total war next between machines and humans.

guilhas 5y ago

I would be more in favour of legal guns instead of assisted suicide or euthanasia

Terry_Roll 5y ago

So nobody asks to be born. Religion tells you that some psychologically twisted individuals invented god because they recognised the best way to destroy someone is let their conscience do it. God is an extremist because not only did he/it/she/whatever/a-z invent the utopian paradise called heaven, he also invented the other extreme nightmare called hell. God does pestilence, disease & suffering like no other, yet if he is all powerful and all knowing, why the need to treat his followers like he does? Religions, Royalty & Govt's will always exist as long as stupid people exist to support them. Mindless breeding as over populated the planet. Nobody has the right, nor does science have the right to dig into my privacy, yet its being stolen by countless entities whether I like it or not. Modern medicine has been and still is, just academic conformity justifying experimentation based on the current knowledge and theories. We dont live in a meritocracy but more like an oligarchy. You can know to much and then go, is that it too life? Meh! Fed up with the unimaginative cycles forced onto us. Even Hollywood is out of ideas so is now doing gender reversal - Ghostbusters! Facebook and social media in general tells me who I should avoid. There is no peace and quiet anymore, its hard to escape the constant background noise of vehicles and technology. The air stinks with pollution. Food is crap and processed too much. Produce is no longer healthy. Too much surveillance. I see Disney or Pixar was on the money with Wall-E I couldnt bring kids into the world today like it is today. I didnt realise how many legal ways there are too kill people, but its very clever! Too much conformity, in academia, govts, media, its all become too alike, but Rat Utopia aka Behavioral sink explains what we are seeing & experiencing from those in charge. Lost the urge to fight, and thats probably the most significant factor, its the basic instinct the military know how to develop and control. After all basic training is a test to see if you can control yourself on the drill square with some drill sargeant shouting and spitting into your ears and face to see if you will react or not. The military do violence the best, its their job to know everything about it in case of war and this also means ignoring the laws and rules when fighting for survival. Why would someone want to suicide/euthanise themselves and involve anyone else, beyond disposal of the body. Why does science need to know why someone wants to end their life, surely they should recognise its none of their business so why should lawyers, judges, doctors, politicians get involved. Why should they control your life???

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