23 ms·

AWS Private 5G

591 points by Trisell 5y ago

ethanpil 5y ago
I wonder if this is a product that was built on top of something they needed to use internally. Makes me wonder how Amazon is using this technology for themselves... Anyone care to speculate?
- vxNsr 5y ago
  One of the podcasts I listen to had AT&T as their sponsor and they would talk about using IoT to make factories and warehouses "smart", so it's possible amazon uses this in their warehouses instead of wifi to connect to the bots and hand terminals.
- the_arun 5y ago
  I see a potential use of it from IoT devices. An eg. a tractor wants to communicate with a central server for commands.
  - bklyn11201 5y ago
    You describe a great use case for LoRaWAN: https://lora-alliance.org/about-lorawan/
  - nicce 5y ago
    I fear what this means in larger scale. All Amazon manufactured physical IoT and hardware could have sidechannel in the future to escape network isolation. They already have this "feature" which expands your home network for neighbor Amazon devices if they need Internet access. And default setting is "ON", not off. How many consumer is aware of that? https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b/?node=21328123011 https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b/?node=21328123011
    - smegsicle 5y ago
      This capability is considered in the design of 5G, see NB-IoT and LTE-M
    - core-utility 5y ago
      It's worth noting that the behavior of Amazon with its commodity consumer products has been notably different than AWS with its customers. The stain on reputation if AWS were to, say, mine data from private S3 buckets would be very hard to remove.
    - vineyardmike 5y ago
      Why would you buy a consumer IoT product and not connect it to the internet? If you’re the kind of person who fears that, you’re probably not the person who uses something like Alexa and smart home stuff.
      - nicce 5y ago
        If the device has not easily removable battery, it starts to be impossible to tell when it collects the data and shares it. Many devices are useful in the local network only, but still they want all-time internet access without real need. Using direct 5G links make it also harder to filter traffic. I don't know, I just don't like the idea that all information must be collected by any means.
        vineyardmike 5y ago
        > Many devices are useful in the local network only no amazon-made device is local only. > I just don't like the idea that all information must be collected by any means. I agree with your sentiment, but most devices don't really have access to much data of concern. I'd be more worried 5g bullshit is used in screens that can send ads over a smart bulb or something.
- GordonS 5y ago
  I would guess it's more aimed at use in large factories, warehouses and yards, where WiFi is not going to be practical. I did a stint as a (software) architect for a large Norwegian engineering company, and at the time they were looking at getting a private 4G network setup, as their facilities were absolutely huge. I did a little research, and quite a few mobile operators actually offer private 4G networks for exactly this use case.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - solarkraft 5y ago
    Could you explain what makes this tech better than Wifi? Does it have better range/deal with interference better? My impression was that the high speed profile of 5G was basically the same as that of Wifi, with exactly the same issues. Am I wrong/is it better in lower speed modes?
    - oretoz 5y ago
      Here are the key differences between 5G and Wifi: 1. Dedicated vs shared spectrum. Though all big countries have shared spectrum initiatives for 5G too but it is still not a free for all like Wifi. So interference-wise 5G might be better for some use cases. Have heard about that in several shipping ports where Private 5G is deployed 2. Security. Due to the usage of SIM but Wifi security is good too 3. Range - though most of 5G is in comparable frequency ranges with Wifi, there is a huge range of powers at which 5G base stations can transmit so range is possibly larger for 5G But it all depends on use-case and there is no clear winner for all situations.
- remus 5y ago
  You could imagine them using it in their warehouses. I imagine getting good coverage with wifi in a huge warehouse could be pretty expensive, maybe 4G/5G works better?
- alexatalktome 5y ago
  No internal use. This is a hype driven white labeling.
benjaminwai 5y ago
I wonder how do they link back to the main network? Would it require a fiber backbone in place as a prerequisite? Or through satellite uplink? i.e., would somewhere really remote, say, the oil rig in the North Sea, be out of luck for such installation?
- sinak 5y ago
  It works over a regular IPSec tunnel I believe.
turtlebits 5y ago
I wonder what the range is for their small cell towers. Would be interesting for off-grid/remote communities (pair with Starlink?). edit: Reading more, it might not be the right use case - doesn't sound like something you use for your phone.
- ahaseeb 5y ago
  It's usable for phone but the biggest use case is data - Do you have any communities in mind
  - turtlebits 5y ago
    You can put the SIM in your phone but then you'll only be part of the private network. I didn't see anything about phone calls/SMS.
kumarski 5y ago
I wonder how many CISOs and CTOs trust Amazon. I'm not sufficiently technical on this front and so I'm probably being a little on the side of paranoia but I don't trust Amazon with my cellular infrastructure.
- emteycz 5y ago
  What makes you trust telcos more?
  - kumarski 5y ago
    Who said I trust telcos more? Waveform.com is worth looking at.
  - DesiLurker 5y ago
    I'd guess mostly their (telcos) incompetence.
  - bastardoperator 5y ago
    They tend to have a track record, where this is a new offering and anyone signing up is ultimately the guinea pig?
- paxys 5y ago
  CTOs of like half the companies on the planet (and 90% of the Fortune 500) which use AWS seem to trust it just fine.
arendtio 5y ago
How is a private 5G network different from wifi from a consumer/business perspective? Does it have a superior range? (Honest question)
- josh_carterPDX 5y ago
  Digital Trends has a good article about this. You can read it here: https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/5g-vs-wi-fi/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/5g-vs-wi-fi/
  - krab 5y ago
    I had the same question as the parent poster, so thanks for the link. Still, I'm confused. The article says that both WiFi 6 and 5G have similar theoretical max speeds. The main difference in the article seems to be that 5G operates on licensed spectrum. But if I understand correctly, this AWS service uses an unlicensed spectrum, so I'm still not sure why would I choose this over WiFi.
    - astrange 5y ago
      5G can handle more clients. WiFi (vaguely) slows down if a slow client connects to the same network as you, rather than a fast client using all the bandwidth. Cellular ISPs also don't do routing the way wifi/wired ISPs do, so your IP address isn't tied to your physical location anymore. That wouldn't apply to private 5G so much though.
      - ahaseeb 5y ago
        +1 authentication is much smoother and quicker
  - solarkraft 5y ago
    It's not really a good article in terms of answering my question what makes 5G a better wireless communication platform than Wifi (besides having a different spectrum - how much does it matter?). When I think about creating a high speed wireless network for my factory/campus I don't think of 5G first, since it appears like it has the speed of Wifi, the range of Wifi (the power efficiency of Wifi?) and way more associated cost for stations, modems and SIM stuff while Wifi APs are pretty cheap and Wifi modems virtually free.
jgalt212 5y ago
Can I just use this as a cheaper (hopefully) home internet connection?
NicoJuicy 5y ago
Which telecom would really want to partner with Amazon?
rajul 5y ago
Super excited about the new edge usecases this could potentially enable
- darklion 5y ago
  Such as?
cinbun8 5y ago
What's the business case for a service like this? Is there anyone on HN that would order this for example?
- flipbrad 5y ago
  If only the linked-to page had a section clearly headed "Use cases" /s
  - cinbun8 5y ago
    I completely missed that
- tyingq 5y ago
  There's use cases further down the page. A fair amount of companies have existing applications that are on-prem and could be made to work with mobile devices this way without having to expose endpoints to the internet. Things like mobile barcode scanners, iot sensors, roving employees with tablets, etc. Edit: Though there are other options: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29395370 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29395370
  - Fomite 5y ago
    There's a ton of research applications with small sensors.
- woofcat 5y ago
  They outline a few cool business cases. I imagine it could be used by mining corps who are often in the middle of no-where. Set up your own cellular tower and give everyone Amazon branded sim cards and it will be a hell of a lot better than Wi-Fi in specific buildings and/or radio only communications.
- hoofhearted 5y ago
  I would imagine that Amazon is already using this service internally to support their Amazon.com marketplace effort. If I were to take a stab at Amazon's internal use case for a private 5g network, I would bet they are using it to manage the communications of the Amazon Logistics applications. Amazon has come to not be held hostage and rely on outside companies for services all throughout their vertical including Fulfillment, Cloud Computing, and Logistics and Delivery. They have abstracted out their core operational dependencies into their own service offerings, so why not a private 5g network next?
nerdbaggy 5y ago
This is fantastic, I wonder what the pricing will be. Cellular stuff is always expensive it seems.
ghshephard 5y ago
Intriguing - but the first three questions that immediately came to mind didn't seem to have an immediate answer. (1) What range/power, (2) Pricing (3) Density/Number of connections? I'd love to see a network architecture that shows how they hop from antenna to antenna as well, and whether it's guaranteed with no interruption to service.
anonymousDan 5y ago
Surely the problem is access to spectrum, or is the idea to rely on unused spectrum bands reserved for local experimental use?
- amarshall 5y ago
  > Convenience of CBRS (Citizens Broadband Radio Service) in the US with no need to acquire spectrum licenses. From: https://d1.awsstatic.com/reInvent/re21-pdp-tier1/private-5g/AWS-Private-5G-Infographic-Final.pdf https://d1.awsstatic.com/reInvent/re21-pdp-tier1/private-5g/...
- detaro 5y ago
  With 5G, many countries have reserved space and/or licensing mechanisms to get spectrum access for small local deployments.
  - ahaseeb 5y ago
    Which other countries have such free spectrum ?
- simplyaccont 5y ago
  it's probably CBRS based system. there are a SAS (spectrum access system) administrators that in charge of managing spectrum so different users won't sit on same frequency. kinda like this https://www.comsearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/cbrs-sas-esc-dsa-diagram.png https://www.comsearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/cbrs-sa...
- foobarian 5y ago
  There is a ton of bandwidth up in the millimeter wave area if line of sight is not too obstructed. One whole GHz is nothing while with legacy WiFi it could be almost half the actual carrier frequency.
- deleted 5y ago
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- kmeisthax 5y ago
parhamn 5y ago
Curious if anyone is familiar: if you could purchase these for your home and all your devices that have wifi chips also have 5g chips, how do you choose between 5g and wifi for your home? Would 5g make sense in wifi-like deployments? Any reason this tech hasn’t merged?
- NikolaeVarius 5y ago
  You test them
verelo 5y ago
I'd love to set this up for my rural community. I've got a good connection but many people have no cell service, no dsl lines, no cable...literally nothing. Until something like starlink is ubiquitous i feel like this could go a long way to solving their problems.
- ahaseeb 5y ago
  Can you email me haseeb@haseebawan.com - I would love to talk about it since we're working on solving this
- bradley_taunt 5y ago
  Came here to say exactly this. Out in rural Canada (Ontario) it is extremely difficult to find reliable, fast, unlimited access. With Starlink delaying a good deal of preorders, something like this could be great.
  - ahaseeb 5y ago
    It isn't replacement to Starlink because you need a backhaul. You can however take one Starlink and use it to distribute among others. Bottleneck is the backhaul
- technobabbler 5y ago
  I don't think this solves the last-mile problem. You still have to provide (get) internet connectivity; Amazon just relays that landline to 5G. And in rural areas, 5G probably doesn't give you enough range anyhow. Have you considered mesh revenue-share networks like Althea (https://www.althea.net/ https://www.althea.net/)? There's a nonprofit one too operating in several cities, but I can't remember what it's called.
  - aero-glide2 5y ago
    Starlink could be that backhaul. Future terminals will have 1Gbps.
    - 5y ago
ACAVJW4H 5y ago
Open Source software stack to run private LTE/5G with SDR https://github.com/srsran/srsRAN https://github.com/srsran/srsRAN
- XMPPwocky 5y ago
  For folks who have actually set up srsRAN for anything besides a trivial configuration w/ one eNB and manual management of most things (and even then), the value-add of having Amazon worry about most of that stuff is clear. It's, ah, ... complicated. This is a bit like responding to, say, the original announcement of EC2 with a link to download a Linux distribution.
jack_riminton 5y ago
I feel like this has come off the back of Amazon creating their own 5G for their warehouses and robots. Can any Amazon employees confirm this?
- alexatalktome 5y ago
  Can confirm there’s no internal use. It’s a fresh project to capitalize on 5g hype. They’re working with a partner for hardware but redoing their software. So it’s a pretty low-touch white label job. They have internal use planned but it was started explicitly for sale to external customers not internal.
mfer 5y ago
I wonder which smart TV provider will be the first to use this instead of home wifi where people can disable or black hole connectivity.
- pokoleo 5y ago
  Some smart TVs already ship with sim cards. It just requires a deal with AT&T/Tmo/etc.
- pantulis 5y ago
  Don't think that's the use case. how would AWS deploy a base station to my home? But you have a real point, and AWS already solved that with the 3G enabled Kindles by having carrier agreements. Why not doing that with Smart TVs?
  - vxNsr 5y ago
    > But you have a real point, and AWS already solved that with the 3G enabled Kindles by having carrier agreements. Amazon regretted that pretty soon after they did it, people hacked their kindles to be hotspots and it became an arms race amazon didn't wanna play.
    - jjoonathan 5y ago
      Was that a big problem? I thought it was a single-intern sized problem.
      - kfarr 5y ago
        Yeah tbh not hard to search for high bandwidth users abusing system and dealing with it on a case by case basis
    - cptskippy 5y ago
      5G E2E Slicing will prevent such scenarios. The SIM will be bound to a network slice and restrictions will be dictated by the carrier.
fredliu 5y ago
Spectrum questions aside (which obviously one of the biggest one), could this enable running Helium 5G on AWS? -- Edit: I don't own any Helium, just curious from tech side what this new AWS service could offer. Not sure the downvotes are particularly about Helium or any crypto related discussion.
- op00to 5y ago
  Why do peole care about helium so much?
  - paxys 5y ago
    People care about the value of their magic tokens and are spamming them in every online discussion in an effort to bring in more bag holders.
    - tradertef 5y ago
      Agree. "awareness" drives people to own their token which will make them money.
  - joewadcan 5y ago
    Or because it solves an incentive problem which has kept millions of people with sub par networks to choose from.
- 2bluesc 5y ago
  Probably not if the Helium 5G offering is similar to their LoRaWan stuff. Due to some security issues with the Helium LoRaWAN proof-of-coverage, only authorized hotspots/access points are allowed to participate. Helium manages this by issuing keys or certificates (IDK which it is) via the Decentralized Wireless Alliance[0]. I think it's highly unlikely Amazon would deploy Helium enabled 5G radios. [0] https://dewi.org/ https://dewi.org/
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FemmeAndroid 5y ago
I'd love to see _some_ pricing estimates. There's a good amount I'd pay to get something like this for some rural communities, but it's unclear if I'm anywhere near able to afford it.
- ahaseeb 5y ago
  I would love to connect on this. Do you've any rural communities in mind ?
- jcims 5y ago
  Probably a small outpost deployment + RF gear, so (guessing) $500K up front and $10-20k/mo. I don't know if it's possible to get RDOF grants for individual communities but that might cover some of it.
  - pid-1 5y ago
    Aren't small cells significantly cheaper?
  - throwthere 5y ago
    In addition to the gear, would you have to license the spectrum from someone? I think the fcc already auctioned it all off? Or does that not apply here? Any idea what that would cost?
    - jcims 5y ago
      I don’t know the details there. Presumably there would be at least be cost for someone to maintain the paperwork and equipment certification. There’s a couple comments in here about this being on CBRS, possibly more info there.
      - saltminer 5y ago
        Per https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/ https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/ it is, indeed, CBRS. And it seems like if you have other frequencies in your possession, you can use those, too.
the_arun 5y ago
Does this need an "id" (phone number) to communicate in 5G?
- AlexandrB 5y ago
  Almost certainly not a phone number. I think 3G/4G use IMSI[1] as the customer identifier. You only get a phone number if you're going to be doing voice calls over the carrier's network. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_mobile_subscriber_identity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_mobile_subscribe...
epa 5y ago
How does this compare to Helium 5G? https://www.helium.com/5G https://www.helium.com/5G
- bogwog 5y ago
  > Blockchain Hard pass
  - Spivak 5y ago
    It's actually not that bad. It's basically just a payment for providing verifiable wireless coverage to an area. If you want access to the network you buy it with VerizonBucks and people who provide coverage get them. In this case the only reason for the blockchain is really because global payments are hard.
- paxys 5y ago
  The biggest difference seems to be that aside from dropping some buzzwords like blockchain that page gives no description for what Helium 5G actually is or what the intended use cases for it are.
  - vmception 5y ago
    Kind of interesting how it stops being a buzzword when you understand why the word is being used, more interesting to watch other people be allergic to some words. That landing page is sparse but Helium and other wireless networks are using blockchains as a rollout strategy. Basically people invest in radio hardware because they think they can earn more in the blockchain token, don't worry as the radios are low power and most networks especially Helium's doesn't allow people to hoard radios, you earn less if there are other radios in the coverage zone. Other radios are the nodes which report your adherence to the network rules, the blockchain automatically pays out. Thats the supply side. The demand is people and organizations buying the token to buy send data over this network. With Helium I believe thats a one way conversion: Helium tokens -> data. But the receiving radio gets paid in new Helium from the blockchain's issuance, if it received any data then thats a bonus added to its payout allowance (but its not 1:1 to the amount of Helium tokens burned). So its kind of fun to think that the availability of this wireless network will have some service buying this digital commodity as an overhead cost and extending service to people that don't know Helium is one of the network routes behind the scenes. There are some IOT device that use the Helium network, I think some of the rideshare scooters use it already for over a year.
henvic 5y ago
They could've called it AWS Infinidash Mobile.
- Invictus0 5y ago
  There has never been any humor in Amazon's culture.
tyingq 5y ago
Probably worth noting that the regular cell providers can also provide SIMS that dump the end device into your existing, normal private network rather than the internet. I don't know how this service differs in pricing, so it's hard to quantify when this AWS service would be a better idea outside of coverage issues.
- maccolgan 5y ago
  I would assume that'd be so nickle and dimed by CISPs (probably trying to milk the enterprise cow) that nobody either knows or cares about that.
  - tyingq 5y ago
    They do have to compete with one another, and potential customers usually already have leverage with other things they do with the same carrier, like WAN links, MPLS, corporate owned mobile contracts, etc.
- paxys 5y ago
  Dedicated base stations are the difference here. There's a huge need for private communication networks outside of urban areas where there is bad cell coverage – think oil fields, docks, industrial estates, ranches, war zones.
  - tyingq 5y ago
    Yes, sure...that's what I meant by "coverage issues". I wasn't sure everyone was aware of the route-to-my-private-network option that doesn't require a VPN, etc.
drewda 5y ago
Is this a competitor to Twilio's managed SIM card service? That's been my go-to in recent years whenever we need to provide cell data connectivity to a small number of devices.
- alexatalktome 5y ago
  No this is a Antenae-as-a-service
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throwawaymanbot 5y ago
They love 5G because their mesh neighborhood spyveillance BS works even better without the need for WiFi permissions.
nixpulvis 5y ago
How long until Amazon takes on the existing cell companies?
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Doesn't have the margins to make it attractive. An M2M/IoT MVNO though? That'd be cool to see, more competition in the space drives down prices.
  - vineyardmike 5y ago
    Yea because amazon isn't used to entering markets with small margins. /s
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      If mean, if AWS is dragging retail fulfillment around, do they need more anchors around their neck? Operating a nationwide cellular carrier is HARD, even when dumping the capex on tower management REITs and outsourcing all of your cellular infra to Ericsson. Seems easier to write a check and plug into someone else doing the schlep (ATT is best suited for this imho), maybe buy Twilio and have them do it.
      - vineyardmike 5y ago
        Retail is basically cost-neutral at this point. I have a theory that they operate at a loss just to avoid taxes (because that delta is basically free) and spend that to stay extra competitive. Amazon's whole MO is huge CapEx and selling it for cash flow. If they have the credit, why not finance it. They're already building satellite ground stations and a fleet to beam internet down to earth, this could easily supplement or build a market for that. They'd probably benefit from lots of cheap and available internet for their logistics network, but its probably not expensive enough to justify alone, but maybe by leveraging AWS sales they can prop up cash flow enough to cover costs. Not that they're doing this, of course, just that i don't think it should be ruled out.
Raed667 5y ago
Now imagine a future where every device you buy is connected to the internet wirelessly, whether you like it or not.
- throw03172019 5y ago
  Is that time already here? Fridges, washing machines, dishwashers, TVs etc.
  - Raed667 5y ago
    Not yet. All of those still require wifi or bluetooth. They ask the user to do the setup.
  - r00fus 5y ago
    Don't they require wifi? This effort (and Amazon Sidewalk) are trying to bypass that.
  - rzzzt 5y ago
    No.
  - d4mi3n 5y ago
    Yes. Many devices will ask for a network or create a mesh network over wifi/bluetooth/zigby if one isn't presented to them.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    Automobiles is the one you're looking for.
- stopagephobia 5y ago
  Then we start jailbreaking them to use as free modems and cost people who make that huge amounts of money, then they will stop.
  - brendoelfrendo 5y ago
    You assume a future where internet is ubiquitous and fee and not a future where every device you own comes with the burden of a perpetual subscription in order to function.
milesward 5y ago
This is such a dick move. Ex-AWS superstars built https://www.soracom.io/ https://www.soracom.io/, made AWS folks aware, who balked at a deal. Example 1198170892703973...
- ec109685 5y ago
  Tons of companies are in this space, e.g. https://www.verizon.com/about/news/verizon-business-launches-on-site-5g https://www.verizon.com/about/news/verizon-business-launches... So it seems odd to call out AWS that they should have partnered with soracom or they aren't being ethical.
  - deleted 5y ago
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  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    I think the idea is that AWS is slimy for rejecting a deal with a startup and then launching a competitive product. There's a difference between independently coming up with an idea versus transparently copying someone else's idea. Of course, we can't be certain that the AWS folks who launched Private 5g were even aware of the Soracom deal offer, but the optics certainly aren't favorable.
    - milesward 5y ago
      ... a startup founded entirely by prior successful team members, all friendlies.
- milesward 5y ago
  As in, I'd love to see how much english from the marketing/docs/etc are just straight lifted from Soracom.
  - 5y ago
sbisson 5y ago
Catching up with Azure, I see. Edge Zones has been available since May. https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/solutions/private-multi-access-edge-compute-mec/#overview https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/solutions/private-multi-ac...
- stossie 5y ago
  Different products, Azure offering competes against AWS Wavelength.
  - sbisson 5y ago
    See Azure Private Edge Zones, part of the full product. Azure is offering both network-provided and private 5G as options in the same service.
- p0rkbelly 5y ago
  I think that is the same as AWS Wavelength which launched in 2019. https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/12/announcing-aws-wavelength-delivering-ultra-low-latency-applications-5g/ https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/12/announcin...
axegon_ 5y ago
I'm curious to find out where this would be available. I spent about two years in an ISP provider and any service you wanted to add that involved telecom services required a million and one licenses and government permissions, most of which took months if not years.
- ahaseeb 5y ago
  It's available across US
simonebrunozzi 5y ago
Not sure how big the market will be for something like this; apart from, well, drug cartels in Mexico </joking>. 5G uses multiple bands, and the most useful, and highest throughput one, doesn't have a great range (high band, 24 GHz and up). So, perhaps you use 5G tech/devices but not use that, and instead focus on low band (600–900 MHz, few kilometers of range)? Would a mining company use this to oversee a large property? Would a large cattle operation benefit?
- josh_carterPDX 5y ago
  Tacoma, WA is planning on deploying a private 5G network to make port operations more efficient. You can imagine containers coming in and out of ports are slowed when someone has to physically inspect them for damage. There are a few companies using AI to detect damaged containers and having a higher bandwidth allows those images to be more clear which in turn allows the AI to be more accurate.
  - simonebrunozzi 5y ago
    But it wouldn't use high band! So, why not just stick with 4G devices (cheaper, more tested), and existing solutions?
    - josh_carterPDX 5y ago
      Not sure I agree here. 5G offers lower latency and more bandwidth. Also, what I've outlined is just one use case. If we're talking about a port there are multiple layers of operations in which a high speed network could make things move more efficiently. So while 4G might be less expensive it also would only incrementally improve current operations. I would imagine this is the same for other use cases in which there are multiple layers of needed high bandwidth.
- jeffwask 5y ago
  It's been said that every dollar on the internet has been made by unbundling and rebundling products. In the US, cellular started as a service that was dominated by regional players and now it's essentially a 3 company monopoly. In the same way FinTech's have gone after traditional banks, I can see business models of providing regional or niche cell phone services.
WORMS_EAT_WORMS 5y ago
Become a telecom as a service! Super cool. For those who are glancing over, this is a big deal. 5G isn't really like 4G upgraded. It's more its own thing. I believe this has been available though for a while and many telecoms have partnerships with FAANG beyond Amazon. With 5G you can essentially split a network into multiple partitions and scale them independently on-demand called Network Slicing. (like cloud computing but just the network). This could be extremely useful for security. Maybe even the death of VPNs. This is also useful for scaling network resources to services as they need it. Short-term, things like "Tesla Free Network" could exist for their self-driving cars. Or, Uber offering free fast Internet to their drivers or a truly private device. Long-term, I am concerned about the emergence of private networks with different access. Such as a "Google Network" or a "Netflix Network" that offer different services or privacy levels at different costs. It's a crazy, scary, but also fun direction we are going. Edit: Final comment. If you think this might be the death of AT&T with independent providers, think again . Amazon & Co. and others like Google are bringing their developer platform, while the telecoms offer their infrastructure. It's a gross partnership that makes sense. When you send bits over the network -- everyone will be getting paid except you.
- ribosometronome 5y ago
  Please excuse my vast ignorance but wouldn't Tesla, Uber or whomever need to deploy a massive network of 5g towers for that? Or is more that Tesla/Uber/etc could much more easily become an MVNO-like-provider because of network slicing?
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    For those at home reading this... MVNO = "Mobile Virtual Network Operator". Aka a network that doesn't have its own wireless infrastructure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operato...
  - WORMS_EAT_WORMS 5y ago
    The second comment. The telecoms via 5G have been positioning themselves to rent their infrastructure on-demand. The AWS partnership is this but Amazon then re-extending it to developers on their platform as part of their "Cloud" offerings. I doubt Amazon has many towers of their own here and are almost entirely through one of the telecoms.
javajosh 5y ago
Sounds like they are selling Wifi++ - what confuses me is how/why Amazon is involved, apart from selling the hardware. Is there a subscription piece? The implication of this product concerns me, although maybe it's just a communication issue. Amazon is selling this as an Amazon product, but wifi isn't an Amazon product, nor is 5G. They are retailing the gear to put up a 5G network - so why call it a "product" and roll it out like this?
- detaro 5y ago
  Presumably they sell network management/operation/maintenance/... as a service. (Similar to how cloud-managed wifi stuff is a thing, except mobile networks are more complex)
- jcrawfordor 5y ago
  The 5G architecture (and LTE for the most part, but 5G was designed ground-up this way) makes very heavy use of remote resources. An actual 5G base station (and most new LTE base stations) is somewhat like an SDR with very little actual protocol logic locally, it connects to a remote controller that handles all of the "business logic." It's an important change because for various reasons, some good and some not so good, the architecture of these networks is really quite complicated and a base station needs a lot of "support services" to function. Making them all remote is basically the change that allowed cell base stations to go from 120sqft concrete huts to the "microcells" we have today where the equipment fits in a pole-mount cabinet. So the value proposition here is that Amazon is operating the actual network, which is not a small thing. You just have to install the radio hardware.
  - javajosh 5y ago
    Thanks for the clarifications! I still have questions - there is no "business logic" in my wifi router, so why would there be such a thing in a 5G base station? What is the analog to a wifi router calling out to a "remote controller" to handle "business logic"? A base station needs "support services" to function - what are those? Presumably the complexity of 5G vs Wifi comes from it's cell nature, and the nodes need to know about each other and connected devices to deal with a handoff (which implies at least limited multiplexing). But I don't see why this behavior would require a server-side component and a subscription. Shouldn't the 5G nodes be smart enough to deal with this without phoning home?
alexatalktome 5y ago
Heard it may not launch soon because the project is so stressful employees may quit before it’s done. Lots of weekend work and lying management.
eliseumds 5y ago
I still don't get why AWS keeps using images to display textual content. It's inaccessible and it looks terrible on mobile devices.
joewadcan 5y ago
Are they using Magma[1]? I couldn't tell from their sparse FAQ[2]. The Magma community is strong and they're making great progress on the open standard. 1 Magma - Facebook built 5G hotspot platform: https://www.magmacore.org/ https://www.magmacore.org/ 2 AWS FAQ - https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/ https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/
- ocean_id 5y ago
  They don't. As a matter of fact i'm here to see if the name company involved in this project is going to leak.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
unixhero 5y ago
Which countries???
no_time 5y ago
>Run a smart manufacturing facility >Enable business-critical applications I'm not sure what manufacturing facility are they talking about but at the places I know you will get ridiculed for even entertaining the idea of controlling infrastructure over anything but good old copper or fiber. And they are right.
- wantsanagent 5y ago
  There are a lot of places that use RFID, Bluetooth and WiFi for equipment tracking, tote tracking, part tracking etc. Each has its pros and cons so I imagine there is space for 5g as well.
- kizer 5y ago
  Why? There are undoubtedly wireless components to the infrastructure's network already. If everything could just beam to a single tower what's the issue?
  - no_time 5y ago
    >undoubtedly wireless components to the infrastructure's network already. Yeah, the free guest wifi in the meeting rooms. Believe me, out in the field it's all copper and fiber, held together by mountains of cisco switches. The facility in question is an oil refinery.
    - kizer 5y ago
      Yeah… but why? You’re telling me what is the case currently but I’m wondering why the copper, fiber, and switches can’t be replaced by the 5G solution.
- cesarb 5y ago
  An obvious use case would be controlling a fleet of AGVs; forcing them all to be tethered could be very limiting.
- ABeeSea 5y ago
  Amazon has deployed wirelessly controlled KIVA robots in the warehouses for over a decade.
vmception 5y ago
Would be awesome to see them make a proposal to authenticate to the Helium network, I believe they intend to also support private 5g? anyway Amazon could handle the logistics to rollout hardware much better than existing manufacturers on the Helium network.
kizer 5y ago
So is this basically an alternative to lots of spread out WiFi routers? Like a university could get rid of all the routers in all the buildings and just have one or two of the "towers" Amazon would provide?
savant_penguin 5y ago
Why would telecoms offer a service that could compete with their own?
a-dub 5y ago
so i'm guessing this means they use 5g in their warehouses for the their robots/cameras/etc and they've turned it into a product? it's still a little unclear to me when 5g becomes a better option than 802.11. the standard bands are just a little faster than lte (which 802.11 outperforms) and the mmwave high bandwidth stuff requires line of sight with no occlusion. 802.11 seems better all around, it can work at high bandwidth without the line of sight requirements... especially considering that most mobile devices are designed to switch between 802.11 and mobile.
- supertrope 5y ago
  Think of the scenarios where Wi-Fi performance suffers. A sports stadium or music concert with thousands or tens of thousands of people. You make a phone call over Wi-Fi and the other person complains "you're breaking up." A convention floor with hundreds of booths. An auditorium with hundreds of people with an open laptop. LTE and 5G have much more consistent latency, and can provide true quality of service mechanisms. Wi-Fi has 802.11e that moves VoIP packets to the front of a series of queues but this is only a probabilistic process not a guaranteed time slot every 20ms. Of course licensed channels are an important part of this carrier grade experience and Wi-Fi on a low duty cycle 5GHz channel is often good enough.
IMSAI8080 5y ago
What radio spectrum does it use for a private 5G network? Isn't it all expensively purchased by the phone companies already?
- s800 5y ago
  AFAIK, this is CBRS as a Service, which means it uses the 3.5GHz PAL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_Broadband_Radio_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_Broadband_Radio_Servi... https://www.fcc.gov/35-ghz-band-overview https://www.fcc.gov/35-ghz-band-overview
  - IMSAI8080 5y ago
    Thank you
yayr 5y ago
How does this work from a regulatory standpoint? Most countries license frequency bands to dedicated operators under very specific conditions. These operators usually pay a lot of money for that and need to provide a certain degree of public coverage.
bhewes 5y ago
This would be useful in oil and gas fields that have a ton of IOT on them.
djfergus 5y ago
Q: What spectrum does AWS Private 5G support? By default, AWS Private 5G uses shared spectrum like Citizens Broadband Radio Service (CBRS) in the US.
laserbeam 5y ago
It seems everyone here is confused. Here's the official FAQ, and it has 0 marketing garbage. https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/ https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/ There's no "telecom as a service", and there's no "5g can be split into multiple networks" nonsense. Amazon is just selling 5g access points and hardware (just like you would install wifi), and rents you a private connection for that hardware to AWS, and management of that network from AWS. Basically.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  So it's kind of like a VLAN except it's strapped onto the 5G network of the various providers of 5G service via hotspots. Kind of like my 4G security system piggybacks on the network but isn't really callable by a regular old cell phone.
  - FateOfNations 5y ago
    No it's not. It's more like a wifi access point, a hardware device that sets up a private network. The public providers aren't involved in your 5G network at all (unless you are using them for internet uplink at the facility, but that is independent of the private network. AWS handles all the complicated 5G software stack in the cloud though.
- taf2 5y ago
  I'm still kinda of confused... does that mean we could say get a simcard and make voice calls via this network? insert sim card into mobile phone android/iphone and make phone calls?
  - laserbeam 5y ago
    Unsure. But private LTE is already a thing where you can install your own towers onprem and configure your devices to connect to those towers instead of the ones of your standard AT&T provider (or whatever). I don't think there's any magic voodoo involved. I assume there's a way to configure 5G capable devices to connect to some local physical network you set up at a factory. I don't expect this is for telephony, but rather a faster (I guess it's faster...) wifi. But who knows. Maybe if you install your own telephony servers or whatever you could call people on that network. Unsure anyone would care about that unrealistic usecase.
Ballu 5y ago
Let me put my perspective, coming from a guy who is involved in private Cellular networking (US as well as other countries): 1) Private 5G can be deployed either with licensed operator (Cellular provider) or in CBRS band (CBRS band is opened by FCC for the private cellular deployment). It can be used free or paid, different options. (Fees is minimal). 2) CBRS still doesnt support 5G. No idea how AWS will provide. But even if it is private 4G, for the end user it doesnt matter. 3) Your available bandwidth is limited by the air waves bandwidth you are using, nit by 4G or 5G. Per enterprise, CBRS band is limited to LTE equivalent band (20MHz). Total CBRS band is 200MHz, if I am not wrong). You are not going to get giga speed just because its 5G. 4) Not all phones support CBRS band. You will be limited to CBRS band support in handset feature. 5) Each end device will need SIM (SIM card either physical or virtual). Its not like your laptop will be connected with private 4G or 5G. You will need modem as well as SIM card (unless your devices support these features). 6) Its really for small geographic reason. Its not that easy to take the equipment with you and start using. (like in car or train etc). 7) There is a concept of SAS server, that's why AWS device needs to be connected to this server in cloud (There are SAS license holders, to them). Once you install the system and that is connected to the SAS server, first you get the frequency band which is open in your area. If some one using that band (another CBRS player), you are out of luck (ask me , who has to call different teams when deploy in lab). PLus, there are scenarios when these licenses can be revoked (if you are using free band). The law enforcement can ask FCC to use the band temporarily. GCC can revoke your lic and stop the system. What AWS did is big, but for enterprises.
- laserbeam 5y ago
  Is thei FAQ in line with your understanding? You might be more capable than me at parsing it for all I can understand is: "You will receive all the AWS Private 5G hardware (including SIM cards) and software you need to deploy your private cellular network and connect devices to your applications." I translate that to: we sell 5G access points as an alternative to wifi access points. Am I wrong? Cause if I am right I fail to see the bigness of it. I just see it as something reasonable. https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/ https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/
  - 5y ago
atlgator 5y ago
Will this let me build out a 5G network near my mom's house in the sticks?
lawwantsin17 5y ago
Everyone quick, Amazon now wants us to pay to help build out its cellular infra. Jump on the inflated prices, quick!
htrp 5y ago
From the conversation I had, you don't need a spectrum license and Amazon ships you the equipment. The killer app is that there is no per device costs and you pay based on your usage. Unfortunately, no mention of actual pricing.
Digory 5y ago
Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1865/ https://xkcd.com/1865/ Which seems to be true for me. Despite having semi-pro levels of wifi gear and a "fiber" provider at home, I can often get transfers work by turning 'off' the wifi and going to LTE. If I were a campus IT administrator, it probably makes a lot of sense to get rid of wifi costs.
8ytecoder 5y ago
I think people are missing the point on what this is about. It's not about telecom at all. 5G is being looked at as an alternative to WiFi in certain environments - large retail stores, warehouses, ...etc. Basically anything where you need large scale WiFi mesh setups and the devices are controlled by a single entity.
- ipdashc 5y ago
  Why though? What's the advantage of this over Wi-Fi?
  - supertrope 5y ago
    If you need consistently low latency, high uptime, have security requirements, or need extended range. And don't mind paying more. ATMs, credit card machines, alarm systems, EV chargers, phones, etc. are often on cellular connections.
- ahaseeb 5y ago
  Authentication, security & efficiency. Handoff time between multiple Wi-Fi nodes is terrible, security can be compromised much easier since by end of the day it's just a password
imwillofficial 5y ago
The number of people completely missing what this service does either means they did not read the article, or the article was very poor in clairity. For those who were mistaken, which was it?
commoner 5y ago
The first major client using this service is Boost Mobile, which was acquired by Dish Network from Sprint as a condition of the T-Mobile/Sprint merger: https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/dishs-rouanne-says-aws-5g-deal-will-let-it-become-network-networks https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/dishs-rouanne-says-aws-5g-...
londons_explore 5y ago
So who does all the necessary spectrum licensing and allocation?
cbsmith 5y ago
Once again 5G's brand overloading leads to as much confusion as clarification. Yes, just as with LTE, CBRS is one of the bands (specifically n48) allocated for 5GNR. The GAA tier is pretty open for anyone to use, with all the good & the bad that comes with that. Apple added n48 with the iPhone 11, and a lot of other popular phones support either LTE or 5G on that band. In effect, CBRS 5G is like WiFi with better range.
throwbigdata 5y ago
Finally! Toll quality ATM PVCs to the desktop!
ram_rattle 5y ago
AWS for telecom will be really opex heavy, though its a boon for small players,MVNO etc but who wants to keep paying aws every month for something they are going to run for ever.
a5withtrrs 5y ago
This seems a lot like competition for 'Azure for Operators' offering from Microsoft.
vijaykodam 5y ago
Nokia has been the pioneer in Private wireless networks. They have already deployed production ready private LTE / 5G systems in ports and factories. For more info: https://dac.nokia.com/private-wireless/ https://dac.nokia.com/private-wireless/ Disclaimer: I work for Nokia.

591 points by Trisell 5y ago

I wonder if this is a product that was built on top of something they needed to use internally. Makes me wonder how Amazon is using this technology for themselves... Anyone care to speculate?

vxNsr 5y ago
One of the podcasts I listen to had AT&T as their sponsor and they would talk about using IoT to make factories and warehouses "smart", so it's possible amazon uses this in their warehouses instead of wifi to connect to the bots and hand terminals.
the_arun 5y ago
I see a potential use of it from IoT devices. An eg. a tractor wants to communicate with a central server for commands.
- bklyn11201 5y ago
  You describe a great use case for LoRaWAN: https://lora-alliance.org/about-lorawan/
- nicce 5y ago
  I fear what this means in larger scale. All Amazon manufactured physical IoT and hardware could have sidechannel in the future to escape network isolation. They already have this "feature" which expands your home network for neighbor Amazon devices if they need Internet access. And default setting is "ON", not off. How many consumer is aware of that? https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b/?node=21328123011 https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b/?node=21328123011
  - smegsicle 5y ago
    This capability is considered in the design of 5G, see NB-IoT and LTE-M
  - core-utility 5y ago
    It's worth noting that the behavior of Amazon with its commodity consumer products has been notably different than AWS with its customers. The stain on reputation if AWS were to, say, mine data from private S3 buckets would be very hard to remove.
  - vineyardmike 5y ago
    Why would you buy a consumer IoT product and not connect it to the internet? If you’re the kind of person who fears that, you’re probably not the person who uses something like Alexa and smart home stuff.
    - nicce 5y ago
      If the device has not easily removable battery, it starts to be impossible to tell when it collects the data and shares it. Many devices are useful in the local network only, but still they want all-time internet access without real need. Using direct 5G links make it also harder to filter traffic. I don't know, I just don't like the idea that all information must be collected by any means.
      - vineyardmike 5y ago
        > Many devices are useful in the local network only no amazon-made device is local only. > I just don't like the idea that all information must be collected by any means. I agree with your sentiment, but most devices don't really have access to much data of concern. I'd be more worried 5g bullshit is used in screens that can send ads over a smart bulb or something.
GordonS 5y ago
I would guess it's more aimed at use in large factories, warehouses and yards, where WiFi is not going to be practical. I did a stint as a (software) architect for a large Norwegian engineering company, and at the time they were looking at getting a private 4G network setup, as their facilities were absolutely huge. I did a little research, and quite a few mobile operators actually offer private 4G networks for exactly this use case.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- solarkraft 5y ago
  Could you explain what makes this tech better than Wifi? Does it have better range/deal with interference better? My impression was that the high speed profile of 5G was basically the same as that of Wifi, with exactly the same issues. Am I wrong/is it better in lower speed modes?
  - oretoz 5y ago
    Here are the key differences between 5G and Wifi: 1. Dedicated vs shared spectrum. Though all big countries have shared spectrum initiatives for 5G too but it is still not a free for all like Wifi. So interference-wise 5G might be better for some use cases. Have heard about that in several shipping ports where Private 5G is deployed 2. Security. Due to the usage of SIM but Wifi security is good too 3. Range - though most of 5G is in comparable frequency ranges with Wifi, there is a huge range of powers at which 5G base stations can transmit so range is possibly larger for 5G But it all depends on use-case and there is no clear winner for all situations.
remus 5y ago
You could imagine them using it in their warehouses. I imagine getting good coverage with wifi in a huge warehouse could be pretty expensive, maybe 4G/5G works better?
alexatalktome 5y ago
No internal use. This is a hype driven white labeling.

benjaminwai 5y ago

I wonder how do they link back to the main network? Would it require a fiber backbone in place as a prerequisite? Or through satellite uplink? i.e., would somewhere really remote, say, the oil rig in the North Sea, be out of luck for such installation?

sinak 5y ago
It works over a regular IPSec tunnel I believe.

turtlebits 5y ago

I wonder what the range is for their small cell towers. Would be interesting for off-grid/remote communities (pair with Starlink?). edit: Reading more, it might not be the right use case - doesn't sound like something you use for your phone.

ahaseeb 5y ago
It's usable for phone but the biggest use case is data - Do you have any communities in mind
- turtlebits 5y ago
  You can put the SIM in your phone but then you'll only be part of the private network. I didn't see anything about phone calls/SMS.

kumarski 5y ago

I wonder how many CISOs and CTOs trust Amazon. I'm not sufficiently technical on this front and so I'm probably being a little on the side of paranoia but I don't trust Amazon with my cellular infrastructure.

emteycz 5y ago
What makes you trust telcos more?
- kumarski 5y ago
  Who said I trust telcos more? Waveform.com is worth looking at.
- DesiLurker 5y ago
  I'd guess mostly their (telcos) incompetence.
- bastardoperator 5y ago
  They tend to have a track record, where this is a new offering and anyone signing up is ultimately the guinea pig?
paxys 5y ago
CTOs of like half the companies on the planet (and 90% of the Fortune 500) which use AWS seem to trust it just fine.

arendtio 5y ago

How is a private 5G network different from wifi from a consumer/business perspective? Does it have a superior range? (Honest question)

josh_carterPDX 5y ago
Digital Trends has a good article about this. You can read it here: https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/5g-vs-wi-fi/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/5g-vs-wi-fi/
- krab 5y ago
  I had the same question as the parent poster, so thanks for the link. Still, I'm confused. The article says that both WiFi 6 and 5G have similar theoretical max speeds. The main difference in the article seems to be that 5G operates on licensed spectrum. But if I understand correctly, this AWS service uses an unlicensed spectrum, so I'm still not sure why would I choose this over WiFi.
  - astrange 5y ago
    5G can handle more clients. WiFi (vaguely) slows down if a slow client connects to the same network as you, rather than a fast client using all the bandwidth. Cellular ISPs also don't do routing the way wifi/wired ISPs do, so your IP address isn't tied to your physical location anymore. That wouldn't apply to private 5G so much though.
    - ahaseeb 5y ago
      +1 authentication is much smoother and quicker
- solarkraft 5y ago
  It's not really a good article in terms of answering my question what makes 5G a better wireless communication platform than Wifi (besides having a different spectrum - how much does it matter?). When I think about creating a high speed wireless network for my factory/campus I don't think of 5G first, since it appears like it has the speed of Wifi, the range of Wifi (the power efficiency of Wifi?) and way more associated cost for stations, modems and SIM stuff while Wifi APs are pretty cheap and Wifi modems virtually free.

jgalt212 5y ago

Can I just use this as a cheaper (hopefully) home internet connection?

NicoJuicy 5y ago

Which telecom would really want to partner with Amazon?

rajul 5y ago

Super excited about the new edge usecases this could potentially enable

darklion 5y ago
Such as?

cinbun8 5y ago

What's the business case for a service like this? Is there anyone on HN that would order this for example?

flipbrad 5y ago
If only the linked-to page had a section clearly headed "Use cases" /s
- cinbun8 5y ago
  I completely missed that
tyingq 5y ago
There's use cases further down the page. A fair amount of companies have existing applications that are on-prem and could be made to work with mobile devices this way without having to expose endpoints to the internet. Things like mobile barcode scanners, iot sensors, roving employees with tablets, etc. Edit: Though there are other options: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29395370 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29395370
- Fomite 5y ago
  There's a ton of research applications with small sensors.
woofcat 5y ago
They outline a few cool business cases. I imagine it could be used by mining corps who are often in the middle of no-where. Set up your own cellular tower and give everyone Amazon branded sim cards and it will be a hell of a lot better than Wi-Fi in specific buildings and/or radio only communications.
hoofhearted 5y ago
I would imagine that Amazon is already using this service internally to support their Amazon.com marketplace effort. If I were to take a stab at Amazon's internal use case for a private 5g network, I would bet they are using it to manage the communications of the Amazon Logistics applications. Amazon has come to not be held hostage and rely on outside companies for services all throughout their vertical including Fulfillment, Cloud Computing, and Logistics and Delivery. They have abstracted out their core operational dependencies into their own service offerings, so why not a private 5g network next?

nerdbaggy 5y ago

This is fantastic, I wonder what the pricing will be. Cellular stuff is always expensive it seems.

ghshephard 5y ago

Intriguing - but the first three questions that immediately came to mind didn't seem to have an immediate answer. (1) What range/power, (2) Pricing (3) Density/Number of connections? I'd love to see a network architecture that shows how they hop from antenna to antenna as well, and whether it's guaranteed with no interruption to service.

anonymousDan 5y ago

Surely the problem is access to spectrum, or is the idea to rely on unused spectrum bands reserved for local experimental use?

amarshall 5y ago
> Convenience of CBRS (Citizens Broadband Radio Service) in the US with no need to acquire spectrum licenses. From: https://d1.awsstatic.com/reInvent/re21-pdp-tier1/private-5g/AWS-Private-5G-Infographic-Final.pdf https://d1.awsstatic.com/reInvent/re21-pdp-tier1/private-5g/...
detaro 5y ago
With 5G, many countries have reserved space and/or licensing mechanisms to get spectrum access for small local deployments.
- ahaseeb 5y ago
  Which other countries have such free spectrum ?
simplyaccont 5y ago
it's probably CBRS based system. there are a SAS (spectrum access system) administrators that in charge of managing spectrum so different users won't sit on same frequency. kinda like this https://www.comsearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/cbrs-sas-esc-dsa-diagram.png https://www.comsearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/cbrs-sa...
foobarian 5y ago
There is a ton of bandwidth up in the millimeter wave area if line of sight is not too obstructed. One whole GHz is nothing while with legacy WiFi it could be almost half the actual carrier frequency.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kmeisthax 5y ago

parhamn 5y ago

Curious if anyone is familiar: if you could purchase these for your home and all your devices that have wifi chips also have 5g chips, how do you choose between 5g and wifi for your home? Would 5g make sense in wifi-like deployments? Any reason this tech hasn’t merged?

NikolaeVarius 5y ago
You test them

verelo 5y ago

I'd love to set this up for my rural community. I've got a good connection but many people have no cell service, no dsl lines, no cable...literally nothing. Until something like starlink is ubiquitous i feel like this could go a long way to solving their problems.

ahaseeb 5y ago
Can you email me haseeb@haseebawan.com - I would love to talk about it since we're working on solving this
bradley_taunt 5y ago
Came here to say exactly this. Out in rural Canada (Ontario) it is extremely difficult to find reliable, fast, unlimited access. With Starlink delaying a good deal of preorders, something like this could be great.
- ahaseeb 5y ago
  It isn't replacement to Starlink because you need a backhaul. You can however take one Starlink and use it to distribute among others. Bottleneck is the backhaul
technobabbler 5y ago
I don't think this solves the last-mile problem. You still have to provide (get) internet connectivity; Amazon just relays that landline to 5G. And in rural areas, 5G probably doesn't give you enough range anyhow. Have you considered mesh revenue-share networks like Althea (https://www.althea.net/ https://www.althea.net/)? There's a nonprofit one too operating in several cities, but I can't remember what it's called.
- aero-glide2 5y ago
  Starlink could be that backhaul. Future terminals will have 1Gbps.
  - 5y ago

ACAVJW4H 5y ago

Open Source software stack to run private LTE/5G with SDR https://github.com/srsran/srsRAN https://github.com/srsran/srsRAN

XMPPwocky 5y ago
For folks who have actually set up srsRAN for anything besides a trivial configuration w/ one eNB and manual management of most things (and even then), the value-add of having Amazon worry about most of that stuff is clear. It's, ah, ... complicated. This is a bit like responding to, say, the original announcement of EC2 with a link to download a Linux distribution.

jack_riminton 5y ago

I feel like this has come off the back of Amazon creating their own 5G for their warehouses and robots. Can any Amazon employees confirm this?

alexatalktome 5y ago
Can confirm there’s no internal use. It’s a fresh project to capitalize on 5g hype. They’re working with a partner for hardware but redoing their software. So it’s a pretty low-touch white label job. They have internal use planned but it was started explicitly for sale to external customers not internal.

mfer 5y ago

I wonder which smart TV provider will be the first to use this instead of home wifi where people can disable or black hole connectivity.

pokoleo 5y ago
Some smart TVs already ship with sim cards. It just requires a deal with AT&T/Tmo/etc.
pantulis 5y ago
Don't think that's the use case. how would AWS deploy a base station to my home? But you have a real point, and AWS already solved that with the 3G enabled Kindles by having carrier agreements. Why not doing that with Smart TVs?
- vxNsr 5y ago
  > But you have a real point, and AWS already solved that with the 3G enabled Kindles by having carrier agreements. Amazon regretted that pretty soon after they did it, people hacked their kindles to be hotspots and it became an arms race amazon didn't wanna play.
  - jjoonathan 5y ago
    Was that a big problem? I thought it was a single-intern sized problem.
    - kfarr 5y ago
      Yeah tbh not hard to search for high bandwidth users abusing system and dealing with it on a case by case basis
  - cptskippy 5y ago
    5G E2E Slicing will prevent such scenarios. The SIM will be bound to a network slice and restrictions will be dictated by the carrier.

fredliu 5y ago

Spectrum questions aside (which obviously one of the biggest one), could this enable running Helium 5G on AWS? -- Edit: I don't own any Helium, just curious from tech side what this new AWS service could offer. Not sure the downvotes are particularly about Helium or any crypto related discussion.

op00to 5y ago
Why do peole care about helium so much?
- paxys 5y ago
  People care about the value of their magic tokens and are spamming them in every online discussion in an effort to bring in more bag holders.
  - tradertef 5y ago
    Agree. "awareness" drives people to own their token which will make them money.
- joewadcan 5y ago
  Or because it solves an incentive problem which has kept millions of people with sub par networks to choose from.
2bluesc 5y ago
Probably not if the Helium 5G offering is similar to their LoRaWan stuff. Due to some security issues with the Helium LoRaWAN proof-of-coverage, only authorized hotspots/access points are allowed to participate. Helium manages this by issuing keys or certificates (IDK which it is) via the Decentralized Wireless Alliance[0]. I think it's highly unlikely Amazon would deploy Helium enabled 5G radios. [0] https://dewi.org/ https://dewi.org/

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FemmeAndroid 5y ago

I'd love to see _some_ pricing estimates. There's a good amount I'd pay to get something like this for some rural communities, but it's unclear if I'm anywhere near able to afford it.

ahaseeb 5y ago
I would love to connect on this. Do you've any rural communities in mind ?
jcims 5y ago
Probably a small outpost deployment + RF gear, so (guessing) $500K up front and $10-20k/mo. I don't know if it's possible to get RDOF grants for individual communities but that might cover some of it.
- pid-1 5y ago
  Aren't small cells significantly cheaper?
- throwthere 5y ago
  In addition to the gear, would you have to license the spectrum from someone? I think the fcc already auctioned it all off? Or does that not apply here? Any idea what that would cost?
  - jcims 5y ago
    I don’t know the details there. Presumably there would be at least be cost for someone to maintain the paperwork and equipment certification. There’s a couple comments in here about this being on CBRS, possibly more info there.
    - saltminer 5y ago
      Per https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/ https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/ it is, indeed, CBRS. And it seems like if you have other frequencies in your possession, you can use those, too.

the_arun 5y ago

Does this need an "id" (phone number) to communicate in 5G?

AlexandrB 5y ago
Almost certainly not a phone number. I think 3G/4G use IMSI[1] as the customer identifier. You only get a phone number if you're going to be doing voice calls over the carrier's network. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_mobile_subscriber_identity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_mobile_subscribe...

epa 5y ago

How does this compare to Helium 5G? https://www.helium.com/5G https://www.helium.com/5G

bogwog 5y ago
> Blockchain Hard pass
- Spivak 5y ago
  It's actually not that bad. It's basically just a payment for providing verifiable wireless coverage to an area. If you want access to the network you buy it with VerizonBucks and people who provide coverage get them. In this case the only reason for the blockchain is really because global payments are hard.
paxys 5y ago
The biggest difference seems to be that aside from dropping some buzzwords like blockchain that page gives no description for what Helium 5G actually is or what the intended use cases for it are.
- vmception 5y ago
  Kind of interesting how it stops being a buzzword when you understand why the word is being used, more interesting to watch other people be allergic to some words. That landing page is sparse but Helium and other wireless networks are using blockchains as a rollout strategy. Basically people invest in radio hardware because they think they can earn more in the blockchain token, don't worry as the radios are low power and most networks especially Helium's doesn't allow people to hoard radios, you earn less if there are other radios in the coverage zone. Other radios are the nodes which report your adherence to the network rules, the blockchain automatically pays out. Thats the supply side. The demand is people and organizations buying the token to buy send data over this network. With Helium I believe thats a one way conversion: Helium tokens -> data. But the receiving radio gets paid in new Helium from the blockchain's issuance, if it received any data then thats a bonus added to its payout allowance (but its not 1:1 to the amount of Helium tokens burned). So its kind of fun to think that the availability of this wireless network will have some service buying this digital commodity as an overhead cost and extending service to people that don't know Helium is one of the network routes behind the scenes. There are some IOT device that use the Helium network, I think some of the rideshare scooters use it already for over a year.

henvic 5y ago

They could've called it AWS Infinidash Mobile.

Invictus0 5y ago
There has never been any humor in Amazon's culture.

tyingq 5y ago

Probably worth noting that the regular cell providers can also provide SIMS that dump the end device into your existing, normal private network rather than the internet. I don't know how this service differs in pricing, so it's hard to quantify when this AWS service would be a better idea outside of coverage issues.

maccolgan 5y ago
I would assume that'd be so nickle and dimed by CISPs (probably trying to milk the enterprise cow) that nobody either knows or cares about that.
- tyingq 5y ago
  They do have to compete with one another, and potential customers usually already have leverage with other things they do with the same carrier, like WAN links, MPLS, corporate owned mobile contracts, etc.
paxys 5y ago
Dedicated base stations are the difference here. There's a huge need for private communication networks outside of urban areas where there is bad cell coverage – think oil fields, docks, industrial estates, ranches, war zones.
- tyingq 5y ago
  Yes, sure...that's what I meant by "coverage issues". I wasn't sure everyone was aware of the route-to-my-private-network option that doesn't require a VPN, etc.

drewda 5y ago

Is this a competitor to Twilio's managed SIM card service? That's been my go-to in recent years whenever we need to provide cell data connectivity to a small number of devices.

alexatalktome 5y ago
No this is a Antenae-as-a-service

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throwawaymanbot 5y ago

They love 5G because their mesh neighborhood spyveillance BS works even better without the need for WiFi permissions.

nixpulvis 5y ago

How long until Amazon takes on the existing cell companies?

toomuchtodo 5y ago
Doesn't have the margins to make it attractive. An M2M/IoT MVNO though? That'd be cool to see, more competition in the space drives down prices.
- vineyardmike 5y ago
  Yea because amazon isn't used to entering markets with small margins. /s
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    If mean, if AWS is dragging retail fulfillment around, do they need more anchors around their neck? Operating a nationwide cellular carrier is HARD, even when dumping the capex on tower management REITs and outsourcing all of your cellular infra to Ericsson. Seems easier to write a check and plug into someone else doing the schlep (ATT is best suited for this imho), maybe buy Twilio and have them do it.
    - vineyardmike 5y ago
      Retail is basically cost-neutral at this point. I have a theory that they operate at a loss just to avoid taxes (because that delta is basically free) and spend that to stay extra competitive. Amazon's whole MO is huge CapEx and selling it for cash flow. If they have the credit, why not finance it. They're already building satellite ground stations and a fleet to beam internet down to earth, this could easily supplement or build a market for that. They'd probably benefit from lots of cheap and available internet for their logistics network, but its probably not expensive enough to justify alone, but maybe by leveraging AWS sales they can prop up cash flow enough to cover costs. Not that they're doing this, of course, just that i don't think it should be ruled out.

Raed667 5y ago

Now imagine a future where every device you buy is connected to the internet wirelessly, whether you like it or not.

throw03172019 5y ago
Is that time already here? Fridges, washing machines, dishwashers, TVs etc.
- Raed667 5y ago
  Not yet. All of those still require wifi or bluetooth. They ask the user to do the setup.
- r00fus 5y ago
  Don't they require wifi? This effort (and Amazon Sidewalk) are trying to bypass that.
- rzzzt 5y ago
  No.
- d4mi3n 5y ago
  Yes. Many devices will ask for a network or create a mesh network over wifi/bluetooth/zigby if one isn't presented to them.
- kube-system 5y ago
  Automobiles is the one you're looking for.
stopagephobia 5y ago
Then we start jailbreaking them to use as free modems and cost people who make that huge amounts of money, then they will stop.
- brendoelfrendo 5y ago
  You assume a future where internet is ubiquitous and fee and not a future where every device you own comes with the burden of a perpetual subscription in order to function.

milesward 5y ago

This is such a dick move. Ex-AWS superstars built https://www.soracom.io/ https://www.soracom.io/, made AWS folks aware, who balked at a deal. Example 1198170892703973...

ec109685 5y ago
Tons of companies are in this space, e.g. https://www.verizon.com/about/news/verizon-business-launches-on-site-5g https://www.verizon.com/about/news/verizon-business-launches... So it seems odd to call out AWS that they should have partnered with soracom or they aren't being ethical.
- deleted 5y ago
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- deleted 5y ago
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- throwaway894345 5y ago
  I think the idea is that AWS is slimy for rejecting a deal with a startup and then launching a competitive product. There's a difference between independently coming up with an idea versus transparently copying someone else's idea. Of course, we can't be certain that the AWS folks who launched Private 5g were even aware of the Soracom deal offer, but the optics certainly aren't favorable.
  - milesward 5y ago
    ... a startup founded entirely by prior successful team members, all friendlies.
milesward 5y ago
As in, I'd love to see how much english from the marketing/docs/etc are just straight lifted from Soracom.
- 5y ago

sbisson 5y ago

Catching up with Azure, I see. Edge Zones has been available since May. https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/solutions/private-multi-access-edge-compute-mec/#overview https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/solutions/private-multi-ac...

stossie 5y ago
Different products, Azure offering competes against AWS Wavelength.
- sbisson 5y ago
  See Azure Private Edge Zones, part of the full product. Azure is offering both network-provided and private 5G as options in the same service.
p0rkbelly 5y ago
I think that is the same as AWS Wavelength which launched in 2019. https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/12/announcing-aws-wavelength-delivering-ultra-low-latency-applications-5g/ https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/12/announcin...

axegon_ 5y ago

I'm curious to find out where this would be available. I spent about two years in an ISP provider and any service you wanted to add that involved telecom services required a million and one licenses and government permissions, most of which took months if not years.

ahaseeb 5y ago
It's available across US

simonebrunozzi 5y ago

Not sure how big the market will be for something like this; apart from, well, drug cartels in Mexico </joking>. 5G uses multiple bands, and the most useful, and highest throughput one, doesn't have a great range (high band, 24 GHz and up). So, perhaps you use 5G tech/devices but not use that, and instead focus on low band (600–900 MHz, few kilometers of range)? Would a mining company use this to oversee a large property? Would a large cattle operation benefit?

josh_carterPDX 5y ago
Tacoma, WA is planning on deploying a private 5G network to make port operations more efficient. You can imagine containers coming in and out of ports are slowed when someone has to physically inspect them for damage. There are a few companies using AI to detect damaged containers and having a higher bandwidth allows those images to be more clear which in turn allows the AI to be more accurate.
- simonebrunozzi 5y ago
  But it wouldn't use high band! So, why not just stick with 4G devices (cheaper, more tested), and existing solutions?
  - josh_carterPDX 5y ago
    Not sure I agree here. 5G offers lower latency and more bandwidth. Also, what I've outlined is just one use case. If we're talking about a port there are multiple layers of operations in which a high speed network could make things move more efficiently. So while 4G might be less expensive it also would only incrementally improve current operations. I would imagine this is the same for other use cases in which there are multiple layers of needed high bandwidth.
jeffwask 5y ago
It's been said that every dollar on the internet has been made by unbundling and rebundling products. In the US, cellular started as a service that was dominated by regional players and now it's essentially a 3 company monopoly. In the same way FinTech's have gone after traditional banks, I can see business models of providing regional or niche cell phone services.

WORMS_EAT_WORMS 5y ago

Become a telecom as a service! Super cool. For those who are glancing over, this is a big deal. 5G isn't really like 4G upgraded. It's more its own thing. I believe this has been available though for a while and many telecoms have partnerships with FAANG beyond Amazon. With 5G you can essentially split a network into multiple partitions and scale them independently on-demand called Network Slicing. (like cloud computing but just the network). This could be extremely useful for security. Maybe even the death of VPNs. This is also useful for scaling network resources to services as they need it. Short-term, things like "Tesla Free Network" could exist for their self-driving cars. Or, Uber offering free fast Internet to their drivers or a truly private device. Long-term, I am concerned about the emergence of private networks with different access. Such as a "Google Network" or a "Netflix Network" that offer different services or privacy levels at different costs. It's a crazy, scary, but also fun direction we are going. Edit: Final comment. If you think this might be the death of AT&T with independent providers, think again . Amazon & Co. and others like Google are bringing their developer platform, while the telecoms offer their infrastructure. It's a gross partnership that makes sense. When you send bits over the network -- everyone will be getting paid except you.

ribosometronome 5y ago
Please excuse my vast ignorance but wouldn't Tesla, Uber or whomever need to deploy a massive network of 5g towers for that? Or is more that Tesla/Uber/etc could much more easily become an MVNO-like-provider because of network slicing?
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  For those at home reading this... MVNO = "Mobile Virtual Network Operator". Aka a network that doesn't have its own wireless infrastructure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operato...
- WORMS_EAT_WORMS 5y ago
  The second comment. The telecoms via 5G have been positioning themselves to rent their infrastructure on-demand. The AWS partnership is this but Amazon then re-extending it to developers on their platform as part of their "Cloud" offerings. I doubt Amazon has many towers of their own here and are almost entirely through one of the telecoms.

javajosh 5y ago

Sounds like they are selling Wifi++ - what confuses me is how/why Amazon is involved, apart from selling the hardware. Is there a subscription piece? The implication of this product concerns me, although maybe it's just a communication issue. Amazon is selling this as an Amazon product, but wifi isn't an Amazon product, nor is 5G. They are retailing the gear to put up a 5G network - so why call it a "product" and roll it out like this?

detaro 5y ago
Presumably they sell network management/operation/maintenance/... as a service. (Similar to how cloud-managed wifi stuff is a thing, except mobile networks are more complex)
jcrawfordor 5y ago
The 5G architecture (and LTE for the most part, but 5G was designed ground-up this way) makes very heavy use of remote resources. An actual 5G base station (and most new LTE base stations) is somewhat like an SDR with very little actual protocol logic locally, it connects to a remote controller that handles all of the "business logic." It's an important change because for various reasons, some good and some not so good, the architecture of these networks is really quite complicated and a base station needs a lot of "support services" to function. Making them all remote is basically the change that allowed cell base stations to go from 120sqft concrete huts to the "microcells" we have today where the equipment fits in a pole-mount cabinet. So the value proposition here is that Amazon is operating the actual network, which is not a small thing. You just have to install the radio hardware.
- javajosh 5y ago
  Thanks for the clarifications! I still have questions - there is no "business logic" in my wifi router, so why would there be such a thing in a 5G base station? What is the analog to a wifi router calling out to a "remote controller" to handle "business logic"? A base station needs "support services" to function - what are those? Presumably the complexity of 5G vs Wifi comes from it's cell nature, and the nodes need to know about each other and connected devices to deal with a handoff (which implies at least limited multiplexing). But I don't see why this behavior would require a server-side component and a subscription. Shouldn't the 5G nodes be smart enough to deal with this without phoning home?

alexatalktome 5y ago

Heard it may not launch soon because the project is so stressful employees may quit before it’s done. Lots of weekend work and lying management.

eliseumds 5y ago

I still don't get why AWS keeps using images to display textual content. It's inaccessible and it looks terrible on mobile devices.

joewadcan 5y ago

Are they using Magma[1]? I couldn't tell from their sparse FAQ[2]. The Magma community is strong and they're making great progress on the open standard. 1 Magma - Facebook built 5G hotspot platform: https://www.magmacore.org/ https://www.magmacore.org/ 2 AWS FAQ - https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/ https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/

ocean_id 5y ago
They don't. As a matter of fact i'm here to see if the name company involved in this project is going to leak.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

unixhero 5y ago

Which countries???

no_time 5y ago

>Run a smart manufacturing facility >Enable business-critical applications I'm not sure what manufacturing facility are they talking about but at the places I know you will get ridiculed for even entertaining the idea of controlling infrastructure over anything but good old copper or fiber. And they are right.

wantsanagent 5y ago
There are a lot of places that use RFID, Bluetooth and WiFi for equipment tracking, tote tracking, part tracking etc. Each has its pros and cons so I imagine there is space for 5g as well.
kizer 5y ago
Why? There are undoubtedly wireless components to the infrastructure's network already. If everything could just beam to a single tower what's the issue?
- no_time 5y ago
  >undoubtedly wireless components to the infrastructure's network already. Yeah, the free guest wifi in the meeting rooms. Believe me, out in the field it's all copper and fiber, held together by mountains of cisco switches. The facility in question is an oil refinery.
  - kizer 5y ago
    Yeah… but why? You’re telling me what is the case currently but I’m wondering why the copper, fiber, and switches can’t be replaced by the 5G solution.
cesarb 5y ago
An obvious use case would be controlling a fleet of AGVs; forcing them all to be tethered could be very limiting.
ABeeSea 5y ago
Amazon has deployed wirelessly controlled KIVA robots in the warehouses for over a decade.

vmception 5y ago

Would be awesome to see them make a proposal to authenticate to the Helium network, I believe they intend to also support private 5g? anyway Amazon could handle the logistics to rollout hardware much better than existing manufacturers on the Helium network.

kizer 5y ago

So is this basically an alternative to lots of spread out WiFi routers? Like a university could get rid of all the routers in all the buildings and just have one or two of the "towers" Amazon would provide?

savant_penguin 5y ago

Why would telecoms offer a service that could compete with their own?

a-dub 5y ago

so i'm guessing this means they use 5g in their warehouses for the their robots/cameras/etc and they've turned it into a product? it's still a little unclear to me when 5g becomes a better option than 802.11. the standard bands are just a little faster than lte (which 802.11 outperforms) and the mmwave high bandwidth stuff requires line of sight with no occlusion. 802.11 seems better all around, it can work at high bandwidth without the line of sight requirements... especially considering that most mobile devices are designed to switch between 802.11 and mobile.

supertrope 5y ago
Think of the scenarios where Wi-Fi performance suffers. A sports stadium or music concert with thousands or tens of thousands of people. You make a phone call over Wi-Fi and the other person complains "you're breaking up." A convention floor with hundreds of booths. An auditorium with hundreds of people with an open laptop. LTE and 5G have much more consistent latency, and can provide true quality of service mechanisms. Wi-Fi has 802.11e that moves VoIP packets to the front of a series of queues but this is only a probabilistic process not a guaranteed time slot every 20ms. Of course licensed channels are an important part of this carrier grade experience and Wi-Fi on a low duty cycle 5GHz channel is often good enough.

IMSAI8080 5y ago

What radio spectrum does it use for a private 5G network? Isn't it all expensively purchased by the phone companies already?

s800 5y ago
AFAIK, this is CBRS as a Service, which means it uses the 3.5GHz PAL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_Broadband_Radio_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_Broadband_Radio_Servi... https://www.fcc.gov/35-ghz-band-overview https://www.fcc.gov/35-ghz-band-overview
- IMSAI8080 5y ago
  Thank you

yayr 5y ago

How does this work from a regulatory standpoint? Most countries license frequency bands to dedicated operators under very specific conditions. These operators usually pay a lot of money for that and need to provide a certain degree of public coverage.

bhewes 5y ago

This would be useful in oil and gas fields that have a ton of IOT on them.

djfergus 5y ago

Q: What spectrum does AWS Private 5G support? By default, AWS Private 5G uses shared spectrum like Citizens Broadband Radio Service (CBRS) in the US.

laserbeam 5y ago

It seems everyone here is confused. Here's the official FAQ, and it has 0 marketing garbage. https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/ https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/ There's no "telecom as a service", and there's no "5g can be split into multiple networks" nonsense. Amazon is just selling 5g access points and hardware (just like you would install wifi), and rents you a private connection for that hardware to AWS, and management of that network from AWS. Basically.

stjohnswarts 5y ago
So it's kind of like a VLAN except it's strapped onto the 5G network of the various providers of 5G service via hotspots. Kind of like my 4G security system piggybacks on the network but isn't really callable by a regular old cell phone.
- FateOfNations 5y ago
  No it's not. It's more like a wifi access point, a hardware device that sets up a private network. The public providers aren't involved in your 5G network at all (unless you are using them for internet uplink at the facility, but that is independent of the private network. AWS handles all the complicated 5G software stack in the cloud though.
taf2 5y ago
I'm still kinda of confused... does that mean we could say get a simcard and make voice calls via this network? insert sim card into mobile phone android/iphone and make phone calls?
- laserbeam 5y ago
  Unsure. But private LTE is already a thing where you can install your own towers onprem and configure your devices to connect to those towers instead of the ones of your standard AT&T provider (or whatever). I don't think there's any magic voodoo involved. I assume there's a way to configure 5G capable devices to connect to some local physical network you set up at a factory. I don't expect this is for telephony, but rather a faster (I guess it's faster...) wifi. But who knows. Maybe if you install your own telephony servers or whatever you could call people on that network. Unsure anyone would care about that unrealistic usecase.

Ballu 5y ago

Let me put my perspective, coming from a guy who is involved in private Cellular networking (US as well as other countries): 1) Private 5G can be deployed either with licensed operator (Cellular provider) or in CBRS band (CBRS band is opened by FCC for the private cellular deployment). It can be used free or paid, different options. (Fees is minimal). 2) CBRS still doesnt support 5G. No idea how AWS will provide. But even if it is private 4G, for the end user it doesnt matter. 3) Your available bandwidth is limited by the air waves bandwidth you are using, nit by 4G or 5G. Per enterprise, CBRS band is limited to LTE equivalent band (20MHz). Total CBRS band is 200MHz, if I am not wrong). You are not going to get giga speed just because its 5G. 4) Not all phones support CBRS band. You will be limited to CBRS band support in handset feature. 5) Each end device will need SIM (SIM card either physical or virtual). Its not like your laptop will be connected with private 4G or 5G. You will need modem as well as SIM card (unless your devices support these features). 6) Its really for small geographic reason. Its not that easy to take the equipment with you and start using. (like in car or train etc). 7) There is a concept of SAS server, that's why AWS device needs to be connected to this server in cloud (There are SAS license holders, to them). Once you install the system and that is connected to the SAS server, first you get the frequency band which is open in your area. If some one using that band (another CBRS player), you are out of luck (ask me , who has to call different teams when deploy in lab). PLus, there are scenarios when these licenses can be revoked (if you are using free band). The law enforcement can ask FCC to use the band temporarily. GCC can revoke your lic and stop the system. What AWS did is big, but for enterprises.

laserbeam 5y ago
Is thei FAQ in line with your understanding? You might be more capable than me at parsing it for all I can understand is: "You will receive all the AWS Private 5G hardware (including SIM cards) and software you need to deploy your private cellular network and connect devices to your applications." I translate that to: we sell 5G access points as an alternative to wifi access points. Am I wrong? Cause if I am right I fail to see the bigness of it. I just see it as something reasonable. https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/ https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/faqs/
- 5y ago

atlgator 5y ago

Will this let me build out a 5G network near my mom's house in the sticks?

lawwantsin17 5y ago

Everyone quick, Amazon now wants us to pay to help build out its cellular infra. Jump on the inflated prices, quick!

htrp 5y ago

From the conversation I had, you don't need a spectrum license and Amazon ships you the equipment. The killer app is that there is no per device costs and you pay based on your usage. Unfortunately, no mention of actual pricing.

Digory 5y ago

Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1865/ https://xkcd.com/1865/ Which seems to be true for me. Despite having semi-pro levels of wifi gear and a "fiber" provider at home, I can often get transfers work by turning 'off' the wifi and going to LTE. If I were a campus IT administrator, it probably makes a lot of sense to get rid of wifi costs.

8ytecoder 5y ago

I think people are missing the point on what this is about. It's not about telecom at all. 5G is being looked at as an alternative to WiFi in certain environments - large retail stores, warehouses, ...etc. Basically anything where you need large scale WiFi mesh setups and the devices are controlled by a single entity.

ipdashc 5y ago
Why though? What's the advantage of this over Wi-Fi?
- supertrope 5y ago
  If you need consistently low latency, high uptime, have security requirements, or need extended range. And don't mind paying more. ATMs, credit card machines, alarm systems, EV chargers, phones, etc. are often on cellular connections.
ahaseeb 5y ago
Authentication, security & efficiency. Handoff time between multiple Wi-Fi nodes is terrible, security can be compromised much easier since by end of the day it's just a password

imwillofficial 5y ago

The number of people completely missing what this service does either means they did not read the article, or the article was very poor in clairity. For those who were mistaken, which was it?

commoner 5y ago

The first major client using this service is Boost Mobile, which was acquired by Dish Network from Sprint as a condition of the T-Mobile/Sprint merger: https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/dishs-rouanne-says-aws-5g-deal-will-let-it-become-network-networks https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/dishs-rouanne-says-aws-5g-...

londons_explore 5y ago

So who does all the necessary spectrum licensing and allocation?

cbsmith 5y ago

Once again 5G's brand overloading leads to as much confusion as clarification. Yes, just as with LTE, CBRS is one of the bands (specifically n48) allocated for 5GNR. The GAA tier is pretty open for anyone to use, with all the good & the bad that comes with that. Apple added n48 with the iPhone 11, and a lot of other popular phones support either LTE or 5G on that band. In effect, CBRS 5G is like WiFi with better range.

throwbigdata 5y ago

Finally! Toll quality ATM PVCs to the desktop!

ram_rattle 5y ago

AWS for telecom will be really opex heavy, though its a boon for small players,MVNO etc but who wants to keep paying aws every month for something they are going to run for ever.

a5withtrrs 5y ago

This seems a lot like competition for 'Azure for Operators' offering from Microsoft.

vijaykodam 5y ago

Nokia has been the pioneer in Private wireless networks. They have already deployed production ready private LTE / 5G systems in ports and factories. For more info: https://dac.nokia.com/private-wireless/ https://dac.nokia.com/private-wireless/ Disclaimer: I work for Nokia.