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Tech investors can’t get enough of Europe’s fizzing startup scene
- arthurcolle 5y agoI really like that Rocket Investments group that just copies existing products and launches them in into LATAM/Emerging markets. I think this is a German group - does anyone have any info on them?
- thenthenthen 5y agoThey are from berlin (rocket internet). Cant find it anywhere but heard a rumor they once sold a german ebay clone to Google for big $$$ by pretending to be a huge company. They hired a aircraft hangar for the occassion
- aledalgrande 5y agowow, guess due diligence wasn't in fashion at the time
- leobg 5y agoYeah. They started out in the early 2000s by selling overpriced ringtone subscriptions to minors, essentially.
- nicooo 5y agoThat was already their second gig. They made their first millions by copying eBay for Germany and selling it back to eBay 100 days after incorporation.
- SkyMarshal 5y agoHeadlines like this sound more like they're trying to convince the reader of something that isn't actually happening.
- 1cvmask 5y agohttps://archive.md/SsgdQ https://archive.md/SsgdQ
- 1cvmask 5y agoFunny they didn’t mention UI Path and some others like Darktrace, Deliveroo, Getir, Trendyol etc… : https://sifted.eu/articles/europe-unicorns-2021/ https://sifted.eu/articles/europe-unicorns-2021/ https://sifted.eu/articles/uipath-seed-investors/ https://sifted.eu/articles/uipath-seed-investors/
- code51 5y agoLooks like Getir has proven the business model locally but considering their latest moves in the UK, their main goal is capturing the European market. I have doubts about the whole instant-delivery space though. Profit margins are probably not large enough to make the business sustainable. The scenario looks like winner-takes-all or at least hold your breath until IPO.
- bschne 5y ago> “Now Spotify is the winner in music streaming, Klarna is the winner in buy-now-pay-later and UiPath is the winner in robotic process automation—they’re all European,” he says.
- nostrebored 5y ago> Klarna is the winner in BNPL lol what a bold and wrong statement
- MikeKusold 5y agoSwedish Klarna is privately valued at 45.6B. US Affirm is publicly valued at 34.55B. AUS Afterpay is publicly valued at 31.19. I don’t think it is a bold statement. All the major competitors are pretty close.
- WJW 5y agoI don't really have a horse in this race, but surely the big credit card companies are the big dogs in the "buy now pay later" market? Or is there some highly tech-specific submarket these days?
- secondcoming 5y agoAn article from earlier today seems to decry Europe's startup scene [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29316357 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29316357
- skohan 5y agoI've worked on startups in the US and Europe, and there definitely are differences. Say what you want about the US, but the general risk tolerance and attitude of forgiveness around failure are a good match for startup culture.
- arthur_sav 5y agoMain issue in the EU is still compensation. They are pretty stingy with equity and salary. And risk wise, yes, US tends to swing for the fences more often which produces unicorns. EU tends to go more traditional and safe routes (aka boring).
- alecco 5y agoWhat's the point of high compensation when most of it will end up getting taxed away? If you combine employee/employer taxes/contributions it gets to 80%. Add a huge amount of regulations and unions to the mix. There are some exceptions in places like Bulgaria, Belarus, or Poland. But they have much higher barriers like language and climate.
- oblio 5y ago> If you combine employee/employer taxes/contributions it gets to 80%. Where are you getting that crazy number? US salary overhead is slightly higher than Denmark's (which I think is the highest in OECD), despite the supposedly low rates in the US you hear about. In most of Europe at very high salaries the overhead is about 50%, maybe a bit more, which is basically what it is in the US in most states. The main thing is that the US just pays a <<ton>> more. So there's more left at the end :-)
- Zealotux 5y agoSo uh... How do I get in the club? Because I could use a few millions.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoSell a dream to those with deep pockets and shallow expectations. The dream and equity sold is the product.
- lumost 5y agoIsn’t this fundamentally the best strategy when money is free? Scarcity/speculation should dominate returns.
- johnebgd 5y agoHave ability to believe lies.
- mrweasel 5y agoPretty interesting question. I know at least one company which have burned more than $5mil in VC funding over ten years, and they only have a semi stable prototype built on 15 years old tech (which they claim is an actual product). Clearly there’s money to be had, but how to get them is the question.
- xyzzyz 5y ago$5M over 10 years? I forgot how to count that low.
- mrweasel 5y agoYeah, I know, not a lot for a Silicon Valley startup. It's still a ton of money else where in the world. In Denmark, $100.000 will buy you a top notch developer for a year. HN always assume Facebook, Twitter and Uber when talking startups, but the vast majority of startups in Europe are going to be much smaller, and $5M over 10 years is something that would be a godsend to most startups.
- trutannus 5y ago> Skype, was in 2011 bought for $8.5bn by Microsoft Figured Estonia would make it into this at some point.
- varjag 5y agoEstonia was where its Sweidsh and Danish co-founders outsourced the development.
- zz865 5y agoI thought fizz means eventually to fizzle out and disappear.
- jetrink 5y agoIn this context, it's an allusion to carbonated drinks and is a different way to say 'bubbly.'
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- rexreed 5y agoIt's an unfortunate use of term, because while fizzy does mean bubbly and frothy, it can also mean unsustainable because the fizz in drinks never lasts. Author should have / could have used the title "Tech Investors can't get enough of Europe's growing startup scene". Would have conveyed a much less bubbly / frothy / transient nature.
- echelon 5y agoMy mind jumped to "fizzling out" before the "fizz" = "frothy" or "fizz is just temporary" associations kicked in. This is definitely a poor choice of adjective.
- escapecharacter 5y agoThey have to say fizzing because not all of the startups are in the Champagne region of France.
- medo-bear 5y agothis is paywalled for me
- chillel 5y agohttp://archive.today/SsgdQ http://archive.today/SsgdQ
- jp57 5y ago"fizzing" and "fizzling" are too similar.
- bingohbangoh 5y agothey should've said "bubbling tech scene"
- kyleblarson 5y agoCame here to say that. I read it as 'fizzling' and immediately thought the title was sarcastic.
- 0des 5y agoThen the reader could associate it with a tech-bubble.
- mynegation 5y agor/whoosh
- bingohbangoh 5y agoidk if "red hot" would be any better -- bubbling is what first came to mind
- bryanrasmussen 5y agogassy
- dr_dshiv 5y agoNo really, it’s about to pop
- asdfman123 5y agoIt has to come from the fizzing region of France, otherwise it's just a sparkling startup.
- 0des 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- brezelgoring 5y agoHere is the archive link: https://archive.md/SsgdQ https://archive.md/SsgdQ
- outside1234 5y agoWow, so content free. What companies are representative of this new scene? Don't get me wrong - I'd love this trend - but I just don't see it yet.
- endymi0n 5y agoTL;DR: They aren't as visible on average because there's not such a big prevalence of outliers (even if we do have some, such as Spotify). EU creates 39% of global startups, but only 14% of unicorns. Success rate It's historically much more revenue than growth focused, but there's quite a lot of successful startups over here as well. It ties in closely with the local culture of "Mittelstand" and a far larger share of SMB's/family businesses than bigcorps in the US. https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/technology-media-and-telecommunications/our-insights/europes-start-up-ecosystem-heating-up-but-still-facing-challenges https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/technology-media-and-tel...
- NicoJuicy 5y agoEg. Someone i met through a friend: OTA Insight. ( I'm not related to the scene)
- boringg 5y agoWhen I want investment news on the hottest global markets I go to the economist for the cutting edge trends.
- jbverschoor 5y agoSo which "startups" are they talking about? If they're talking about scaleups, sure. Less risky.
- gardaani 5y agoSlush, one of the Europe's largest startup events, is happening next week (1-2 Dec 2021) in Finland. The program contains lots of interesting talks and they will be streamed. Definitely something anyone interested in European startup scene should follow. https://www.slush.org/events/helsinki/agenda-2021/#/ https://www.slush.org/events/helsinki/agenda-2021/#/
- mariushn 5y agoThanks! Can't find streaming info in the main menu & FAQ. Will it be streamed publicly or only for ticket holders? Is there any page with details?
- gardaani 5y agoIt might be this page: https://www.slush.org/events/slush-live-stream/ https://www.slush.org/events/slush-live-stream/ I think they will be streamed publicly. Currently, it contains streams from 2019. Year 2020 the event was canceled.
- 1270018080 5y agoEuropean countries still pay a solid 80% less than in America. How can they ever get talent?
- CraftingLinks 5y agoBecause we don't want to live in US. Because we dont like US culture. Because there's more to quality if living than just raw dollars.
- jowdones 5y agoBecause European talent is largely confined to EU so gotta take what's being offered.
- poisonborz 5y agoThis is asked in like every thread about Europe. Read about income tax and the social services states provide in the EU. I'm happily giving up that "80%" for those.
- tompccs 5y agoBecause the talent can't get into America because of its terrible immigration system.
- yoran 5y agoIt's paradoxical that entrepreneurship is less of a thing in the EU than in the US. After all, Europeans can afford a lot more risk than Americans. There's a strong safety net in the form of social security. Health insurance is not tied to your employer. European university graduates don't start with lives with several $100k in debt, while having gotten an education of similar quality. Maybe the culture is shifting?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- marmaduke 5y agoAt least for France, there is less to recommend doing a startup than in the US. The social security regime is worse (than for others eg employees, govt workers), the tax schemes are complex and penalizing at the low end, and the amount a company has to pay an employee is near double what the employee sees in the bank, because near half goes to support the social security net. I’ve been here a decade and wouldn’t start one, even after doing autoentrepreneur unless it was the only choice.
- sokoloff 5y agoIf you’re stuck in France, could you not start a company anyway and only hire remote workers from outside of France?
- vkou 5y ago> and the amount a company has to pay an employee is near double what the employee sees in the bank, because near half goes to support the social security net In dollar values, in the US, that same amount will go to pay for health insurance and benefits and social security and medicare taxes. Combined with lower wages, and your overall payroll expenses will still be much lower in France. There aren't a lot of senior engineers making north of $300,000 USD/year in France. But there are a lot in SV.
- andreyk 5y agoI'd guess a lot of it is cultural - I believe much of Europe also has a far less workaholic culture than the US, with more emphasis on living life and whatnot. And I'm sure there are other factors (France's labor laws presumably make things harder, although that's a barely informed guess on my part).
- zeristor 5y agoMeta, Amazon, Google, Tesla: MAGGOT Arse, that ‘o’ is in the wrong place.
- difosfor 5y ago> Sequoia .. announced last year that it would open their first European office in London Interesting since the UK left the EU. But I guess they like the banking environment there? Still, I expect quite some red tape if they actually want to invest in EU companies from there.
- callamdelaney 5y agoWhy would they want to invest in EU companies when 90% of EU innovation is based in London?
- throaway1990 5y agoCommunist europe's startups? All they ('companies') do is get free handouts from Brussels and govt agencies.
- throaway1990 5y agoThere have been grand total of two good companies worth anyone's pity have come from Netherlands, ASML and NXP both spinoffs/offshoots of Phillips. The Netherlands is the last bastion of entreprenuership and innovation in deeply communist and anti-innovation, anti-rich and anti-prosperity EU. Not sure how long before Netherlands nationalizes their big companies.