10 ms·

A Death-Aware Career Plan

75 points by KentBeck 5y ago

rhv 5y ago
There is one thing that might change the time value calculation and make a big payoff in decades be worth much more than a dollar today. That would life/health extension technology & medicine. When it starts becoming available, it will cost millions.
taraskuzyk 5y ago
anyone else getting 404 not found on the article? clicking the link redirects me to HN. not surprised if everyone who upvoted so far just saw the title and the username :)
- klodolph 5y ago
  I saw the article, but closed it when it started talking about something called “NFTweets”. As far as I can tell, the lesson is, “I might die, so I should work on NFTweets, which has some shot at giving me financial independence before I die, so I can spend more time on my true passion, which is watching Marvel movies and drinking craft beer.” I made the last part up… apologies for the cynicism, I just observe that the kind of people who fill up their time with hustle to make money often don’t know what to do with their time once they’ve made enough money to be independent. Retirement takes some people by surprise. No judgment for how people want to live their lives, but if you plan on spending your retirement not working, you should probably get some preview of that beforehand so you know what you like. A lot of people want to spend more time with others after they retire. It turns out that if you spend all your time at work, and you retire, you don’t have a lot of other people in your social network to spend time with. Hence, Marvel movies and craft beer.
  - dang 5y ago
    Ok, but please don't post unsubstantive comments here. Edit: when I replied, the entire text of your comment was: I saw the article, but closed it when it started talking about something called “NFTweets”. I appreciate that you expanded it, but please don't do stealth edits that deprive existing replies of their context. That's not fair to other users—not the replier (whose comment's meaning is now lost) nor the readers (who can no longer understand the thread properly). The simple fix is to mark your edit as an edit, like I did here.
    - Igelau 5y ago
      Brusque is not the same as unsubstantive. I see value in being forewarned that there will be shilling for NFTs, and I'm certain I'm not alone in that. It changes everything about the way you read the article.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - klodolph 5y ago
      I realized it was unsubstantive. Sometimes I delete the comment and rewrite it, sometimes I decide to write in some extra text. It’s a judgment call which one I do. My thought process is, “Oh, that is a bit too unclear, now that I read it, isn’t it?” If I think it just needs a small clarification, I’ll edit in the clarification. If it needs major clarification, I’ll delete and resubmit. I don’t always make the right call. I know that. Sometimes a minor addition blows up into a massive chunk of text, because I realize the “minor addition” isn’t enough to make the comment stand on its own, so it needs a “minor” addition, and I make another judgment call. Reminds me of “simple” changes at work that balloon into massive, quarter-long projects. It sneaks up on me. Sentences and paragraphs that look great have a way of seeming woefully deficient once you hit that “submit” button. I firmly believe that the ephemerality of context is inevitable, and live with it. I understand that this is my personal take on context on HN… is context ephemeral? Or should we do what we can to save it? How much effort do we do to save context in the moment so it can be decided? My personal strategy of dealing with this is on HN to quote the parent comment if I feel the context is important. On my blog, I don’t just link to web pages, but copy in quotes. If you feel strongly about this, I would love to hear that elaborated, although I know you’re busy.
  - magneticnorth 5y ago
    From the article - "how many of my remaining days will I wake up and ask, “What do I want to do today?” I had a stretch of almost a year pre-Gusto where I got to ask that question most days. Glorious. I want more of those" It sounds like the author did, indeed, get a preview of their retirement life and found it fulfilling, and now they're working to get back there.
- neonate 5y ago
  http://web.archive.org/web/20211111161025/https://medium.com/@kentbeck_7670/death-a-career-plan-475d78491d8a http://web.archive.org/web/20211111161025/https://medium.com...
bla3 5y ago
Not sure NFTs should be part of your retirement plan.
- KentBeck 5y ago
  They're convex--small investment, small chance of a large return. Also, I've been curious what mechanism will fund creators creating & NFTs seem like a contender.
  - random314 5y ago
    What do you mean by convex?
    - simonebrunozzi 5y ago
      https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/convexity.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/convexity.asp
- UncleOxidant 5y ago
  > I’m going to try minting my more popular tweets as NFTs I totally don't get this. They're tweets meaning that they're already out there. There's no scarcity here. Am I missing something?
  - freejazz 5y ago
    There's no scarcity for any NFTs because they are all trivially replicated. The only thing you ever have is entry on the blockchain that you own the NFT. That's as true for a NFT of a tweet or an NFT of a bored ape.
  - llimos 5y ago
    You're missing the fact that enough people see value there to be willing to pay for it, therefore it might be worth selling it. That's all "value" is. I do agree that it's stupid. But it's the buyers who are stupid, not the sellers.
jimbokun 5y ago
I'm actually slightly surprised Kent Beck is not financially independent at 60. I would have assumed he had gotten some equity somewhere along the way that would have had a big upside.
- AutumnCurtain 5y ago
  At 60, in a country and industry that has experienced unrivaled growth over his lifetime. It is surprising given that a very basic balanced stock portfolio over that time frame should have returned phenomenal results.
- bdavisx 5y ago
  >equity somewhere along the way that would have had a big upside That's more about luck than hard work and good ideas.
  - jimbokun 5y ago
    True, but with the amount of opportunities that come along with Being Kent Beck I would have thought he would have gotten lucky at least once over his career. Or even just negotiated the level of salary that invested in a safe index fund would mean money wouldn't be a problem once hitting no penalty IRA withdrawal age.
- adfgaertyqer 5y ago
  This is a person whose retirement plan includes NFTs but not mutual funds. I am not surprised.
  - dang 5y ago
    Personal attacks will get you banned here. No more of this please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: since your account has already been breaking the site guidelines repeatedly, I've banned it. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
tengbretson 5y ago
It seems odd that a discussion about facing your death would contain more references to NFTs than to your family.
- tuckerpo 5y ago
  This is how your brain operates on big tech futurism larping.
  - dang 5y ago
    Please don't post name-calling or shallow dismissals to HN. Even if you don't feel you owe an article better, you owe this community better if you're participating in it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - redis_mlc 5y ago
    > big tech futurism larping Best description of HN ever! Bonus, you even pissed off dang. lol.
magneticnorth 5y ago
A little bit in the same vein, I'm a big fan of the "rich, broke, or dead" retirement calculator - in addition to telling you the odds your money will run out by age X, it includes the odds you'll be dead by then. I feel like it helps me put my retirement savings in a bit better perspective, as someone who also doesn't want to work in a corporate job until I die. https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/ https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/ An important caveat: the probabilities are based on historical back-testing, and the degree to which the past accurately predicts the future is difficult to estimate.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  How can I get the grey wedge to be smaller on that chart?
  - oaktrout 5y ago
    If you are asking about increasing longevity, it's mostly about taking care of yourself (rather than some magic pill or supplement). Don't smoke, exercise, maintain a healthy weight, get the recommended cancer screenings (e.g. mammograms and colonoscopies), find a reason to live (communities, family, purpose).
  - magneticnorth 5y ago
    If that's a UI question, you can choose "healthy nonsmoker" in the mortality table drop-down, or uncheck "death" to remove it entirely and get a more-standard retirement calculator that assumes you're living at whatever age you calculate out to. If you mean you want to decrease your odds of death, then "healthy nonsmoker" is also a good start, and there's a very deep rabbit-hole you can go into on longevity research, though no real option to uncheck "death" yet.
- omgwtfbyobbq 5y ago
  Thank you for that link. It validates my hunch that holding mostly equities and reducing spending during lean times can be better than holding equities/bonds and maintaining spending.
adamredwoods 5y ago
They should define death-aware career plan a little better. This seems to be an investment driven piece for someone with plenty of money. I don't feel NFTs or crypto are logical choices, feels like gambling. I would rather incrementally invest in ETFs, and/or start a business that I have a little more control over. If you want work to be worthwhile, consider helping non-profits. You will be paid less, but the goal is altruistic, not money.
- wrs 5y ago
  He’s not saying he’ll invest in NFTs. He’s saying he wants to put his writing into NFTs so people will read it. It’s kind of like teaching philosophy with TikTok videos because that’s where the audience is. (At least I think that’s what he saying!)
roughly 5y ago
I feel like the thing missing or not conveyed here is a purpose. Between my last job and the current one, I took a lot of time off to figure out what I was doing and why - more broadly, what is the purpose of my life? What is the impact I want to have in my limited time here? I found an answer to that, and it's made all the difference for me - I know why I'm doing what I'm doing, I know that my work makes a difference, and that makes the rest of this much easier. If I suddenly had $50M, I would still be working in the space I'm in. Simultaneously, it's given me balance. I don't have the same frantic energy I had before - I'm doing meaningful work, I'm in this for the long haul, and I can't do this alone, so I can pace myself instead of panicking that I need to keep studying so I can reach my next career milestone. The philosophers were right - find your meaning.
- phuff 5y ago
  What are you working on now that was different between the last one and this one?
  - dayjah 5y ago
    GP's comment resounds heavily with me. I took time off to consider who I am, what I want my "legacy" to be (other than bad puns), etc. My answer to your question is: B2C consumer internet -> Cancer research.
  - roughly 5y ago
    I was a programmer and manager at a large tech co in a space that became increasingly problematic over the last ~5 years or so. In the time off, I decided that climate change was the issue that mattered most to me - I felt I would feel guilty at the end of my life if I didn't at least try to do something in that space. Given that and my set of skills and general beliefs about the world, I wound up in SynBio, which I think has the promise of providing both the ability to significantly shift how we build our world and also the tools to repair the damage we've done so far. I'm now working as a programmer in a company in that space, learning amazing science from amazing people, and seeing the impact of my work on helping advance their work. I'm learning a ton every day, I'm excited to go to work, and I feel like even if we don't succeed as a field as I'm hoping we will, at least I tried.
actually_a_dog 5y ago
Hypothetically, where would "societal collapse" fall in this framework? I'm thinking that you'd just consider it the same as "sudden death," if it happens, assign it a prior probability distribution, update that prior every year or so, and act accordingly.
Traster 5y ago
It took me a couple of read-throughs of this to really see what he's trying to say about NFTs, and (having been skeptical elsewhere about NFTs) I kind of understand what he's saying. He thinks that everyone is obsessed with NFTs, he thinks he has wisdom to share, by packaging up his wisdom into NFTs he can smuggle his wisdom to a wider audience. Am I getting that right? If that really is what he's doing I think it fits much better into a conversation about how you do stuff that interests you whilst still working, than in a conversation aobut financial freedom.
excalibur 5y ago
> A dollar today is worth infinitely more to me than a dollar after I’m dead. Either you're single or you're about to be.
gota 5y ago
Side comment - the visualization linked from flowingdata is absolutely cool (and to me much more interesting than the linked article) https://flowingdata.com/2015/09/23/years-you-have-left-to-live-probably/ https://flowingdata.com/2015/09/23/years-you-have-left-to-li... I wish there was a dashboard where you could input more data about yourself (diet, habits, family health history, location) and watch the animation change accordingly
black_13 5y ago
What the fuck is a scaler?

75 points by KentBeck 5y ago

rhv 5y ago

There is one thing that might change the time value calculation and make a big payoff in decades be worth much more than a dollar today. That would life/health extension technology & medicine. When it starts becoming available, it will cost millions.

taraskuzyk 5y ago

anyone else getting 404 not found on the article? clicking the link redirects me to HN. not surprised if everyone who upvoted so far just saw the title and the username :)

klodolph 5y ago
I saw the article, but closed it when it started talking about something called “NFTweets”. As far as I can tell, the lesson is, “I might die, so I should work on NFTweets, which has some shot at giving me financial independence before I die, so I can spend more time on my true passion, which is watching Marvel movies and drinking craft beer.” I made the last part up… apologies for the cynicism, I just observe that the kind of people who fill up their time with hustle to make money often don’t know what to do with their time once they’ve made enough money to be independent. Retirement takes some people by surprise. No judgment for how people want to live their lives, but if you plan on spending your retirement not working, you should probably get some preview of that beforehand so you know what you like. A lot of people want to spend more time with others after they retire. It turns out that if you spend all your time at work, and you retire, you don’t have a lot of other people in your social network to spend time with. Hence, Marvel movies and craft beer.
- dang 5y ago
  Ok, but please don't post unsubstantive comments here. Edit: when I replied, the entire text of your comment was: I saw the article, but closed it when it started talking about something called “NFTweets”. I appreciate that you expanded it, but please don't do stealth edits that deprive existing replies of their context. That's not fair to other users—not the replier (whose comment's meaning is now lost) nor the readers (who can no longer understand the thread properly). The simple fix is to mark your edit as an edit, like I did here.
  - Igelau 5y ago
    Brusque is not the same as unsubstantive. I see value in being forewarned that there will be shilling for NFTs, and I'm certain I'm not alone in that. It changes everything about the way you read the article.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - klodolph 5y ago
    I realized it was unsubstantive. Sometimes I delete the comment and rewrite it, sometimes I decide to write in some extra text. It’s a judgment call which one I do. My thought process is, “Oh, that is a bit too unclear, now that I read it, isn’t it?” If I think it just needs a small clarification, I’ll edit in the clarification. If it needs major clarification, I’ll delete and resubmit. I don’t always make the right call. I know that. Sometimes a minor addition blows up into a massive chunk of text, because I realize the “minor addition” isn’t enough to make the comment stand on its own, so it needs a “minor” addition, and I make another judgment call. Reminds me of “simple” changes at work that balloon into massive, quarter-long projects. It sneaks up on me. Sentences and paragraphs that look great have a way of seeming woefully deficient once you hit that “submit” button. I firmly believe that the ephemerality of context is inevitable, and live with it. I understand that this is my personal take on context on HN… is context ephemeral? Or should we do what we can to save it? How much effort do we do to save context in the moment so it can be decided? My personal strategy of dealing with this is on HN to quote the parent comment if I feel the context is important. On my blog, I don’t just link to web pages, but copy in quotes. If you feel strongly about this, I would love to hear that elaborated, although I know you’re busy.
- magneticnorth 5y ago
  From the article - "how many of my remaining days will I wake up and ask, “What do I want to do today?” I had a stretch of almost a year pre-Gusto where I got to ask that question most days. Glorious. I want more of those" It sounds like the author did, indeed, get a preview of their retirement life and found it fulfilling, and now they're working to get back there.
neonate 5y ago
http://web.archive.org/web/20211111161025/https://medium.com/@kentbeck_7670/death-a-career-plan-475d78491d8a http://web.archive.org/web/20211111161025/https://medium.com...

bla3 5y ago

Not sure NFTs should be part of your retirement plan.

KentBeck 5y ago
They're convex--small investment, small chance of a large return. Also, I've been curious what mechanism will fund creators creating & NFTs seem like a contender.
- random314 5y ago
  What do you mean by convex?
  - simonebrunozzi 5y ago
    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/convexity.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/convexity.asp
UncleOxidant 5y ago
> I’m going to try minting my more popular tweets as NFTs I totally don't get this. They're tweets meaning that they're already out there. There's no scarcity here. Am I missing something?
- freejazz 5y ago
  There's no scarcity for any NFTs because they are all trivially replicated. The only thing you ever have is entry on the blockchain that you own the NFT. That's as true for a NFT of a tweet or an NFT of a bored ape.
- llimos 5y ago
  You're missing the fact that enough people see value there to be willing to pay for it, therefore it might be worth selling it. That's all "value" is. I do agree that it's stupid. But it's the buyers who are stupid, not the sellers.

jimbokun 5y ago

I'm actually slightly surprised Kent Beck is not financially independent at 60. I would have assumed he had gotten some equity somewhere along the way that would have had a big upside.

AutumnCurtain 5y ago
At 60, in a country and industry that has experienced unrivaled growth over his lifetime. It is surprising given that a very basic balanced stock portfolio over that time frame should have returned phenomenal results.
bdavisx 5y ago
>equity somewhere along the way that would have had a big upside That's more about luck than hard work and good ideas.
- jimbokun 5y ago
  True, but with the amount of opportunities that come along with Being Kent Beck I would have thought he would have gotten lucky at least once over his career. Or even just negotiated the level of salary that invested in a safe index fund would mean money wouldn't be a problem once hitting no penalty IRA withdrawal age.
adfgaertyqer 5y ago
This is a person whose retirement plan includes NFTs but not mutual funds. I am not surprised.
- dang 5y ago
  Personal attacks will get you banned here. No more of this please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: since your account has already been breaking the site guidelines repeatedly, I've banned it. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

tengbretson 5y ago

It seems odd that a discussion about facing your death would contain more references to NFTs than to your family.

tuckerpo 5y ago
This is how your brain operates on big tech futurism larping.
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't post name-calling or shallow dismissals to HN. Even if you don't feel you owe an article better, you owe this community better if you're participating in it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  > big tech futurism larping Best description of HN ever! Bonus, you even pissed off dang. lol.

magneticnorth 5y ago

A little bit in the same vein, I'm a big fan of the "rich, broke, or dead" retirement calculator - in addition to telling you the odds your money will run out by age X, it includes the odds you'll be dead by then. I feel like it helps me put my retirement savings in a bit better perspective, as someone who also doesn't want to work in a corporate job until I die. https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/ https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/ An important caveat: the probabilities are based on historical back-testing, and the degree to which the past accurately predicts the future is difficult to estimate.

sokoloff 5y ago
How can I get the grey wedge to be smaller on that chart?
- oaktrout 5y ago
  If you are asking about increasing longevity, it's mostly about taking care of yourself (rather than some magic pill or supplement). Don't smoke, exercise, maintain a healthy weight, get the recommended cancer screenings (e.g. mammograms and colonoscopies), find a reason to live (communities, family, purpose).
- magneticnorth 5y ago
  If that's a UI question, you can choose "healthy nonsmoker" in the mortality table drop-down, or uncheck "death" to remove it entirely and get a more-standard retirement calculator that assumes you're living at whatever age you calculate out to. If you mean you want to decrease your odds of death, then "healthy nonsmoker" is also a good start, and there's a very deep rabbit-hole you can go into on longevity research, though no real option to uncheck "death" yet.
omgwtfbyobbq 5y ago
Thank you for that link. It validates my hunch that holding mostly equities and reducing spending during lean times can be better than holding equities/bonds and maintaining spending.

adamredwoods 5y ago

They should define death-aware career plan a little better. This seems to be an investment driven piece for someone with plenty of money. I don't feel NFTs or crypto are logical choices, feels like gambling. I would rather incrementally invest in ETFs, and/or start a business that I have a little more control over. If you want work to be worthwhile, consider helping non-profits. You will be paid less, but the goal is altruistic, not money.

wrs 5y ago
He’s not saying he’ll invest in NFTs. He’s saying he wants to put his writing into NFTs so people will read it. It’s kind of like teaching philosophy with TikTok videos because that’s where the audience is. (At least I think that’s what he saying!)

roughly 5y ago

I feel like the thing missing or not conveyed here is a purpose. Between my last job and the current one, I took a lot of time off to figure out what I was doing and why - more broadly, what is the purpose of my life? What is the impact I want to have in my limited time here? I found an answer to that, and it's made all the difference for me - I know why I'm doing what I'm doing, I know that my work makes a difference, and that makes the rest of this much easier. If I suddenly had $50M, I would still be working in the space I'm in. Simultaneously, it's given me balance. I don't have the same frantic energy I had before - I'm doing meaningful work, I'm in this for the long haul, and I can't do this alone, so I can pace myself instead of panicking that I need to keep studying so I can reach my next career milestone. The philosophers were right - find your meaning.

phuff 5y ago
What are you working on now that was different between the last one and this one?
- dayjah 5y ago
  GP's comment resounds heavily with me. I took time off to consider who I am, what I want my "legacy" to be (other than bad puns), etc. My answer to your question is: B2C consumer internet -> Cancer research.
- roughly 5y ago
  I was a programmer and manager at a large tech co in a space that became increasingly problematic over the last ~5 years or so. In the time off, I decided that climate change was the issue that mattered most to me - I felt I would feel guilty at the end of my life if I didn't at least try to do something in that space. Given that and my set of skills and general beliefs about the world, I wound up in SynBio, which I think has the promise of providing both the ability to significantly shift how we build our world and also the tools to repair the damage we've done so far. I'm now working as a programmer in a company in that space, learning amazing science from amazing people, and seeing the impact of my work on helping advance their work. I'm learning a ton every day, I'm excited to go to work, and I feel like even if we don't succeed as a field as I'm hoping we will, at least I tried.

actually_a_dog 5y ago

Hypothetically, where would "societal collapse" fall in this framework? I'm thinking that you'd just consider it the same as "sudden death," if it happens, assign it a prior probability distribution, update that prior every year or so, and act accordingly.

Traster 5y ago

It took me a couple of read-throughs of this to really see what he's trying to say about NFTs, and (having been skeptical elsewhere about NFTs) I kind of understand what he's saying. He thinks that everyone is obsessed with NFTs, he thinks he has wisdom to share, by packaging up his wisdom into NFTs he can smuggle his wisdom to a wider audience. Am I getting that right? If that really is what he's doing I think it fits much better into a conversation about how you do stuff that interests you whilst still working, than in a conversation aobut financial freedom.

excalibur 5y ago

> A dollar today is worth infinitely more to me than a dollar after I’m dead. Either you're single or you're about to be.

gota 5y ago

Side comment - the visualization linked from flowingdata is absolutely cool (and to me much more interesting than the linked article) https://flowingdata.com/2015/09/23/years-you-have-left-to-live-probably/ https://flowingdata.com/2015/09/23/years-you-have-left-to-li... I wish there was a dashboard where you could input more data about yourself (diet, habits, family health history, location) and watch the animation change accordingly

black_13 5y ago

What the fuck is a scaler?