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Thanks Google. Think I’ll be buying this. I want as little to do with Google’s services as possible in my life, but they really deserve credits for making a mo

by DCKing 5y ago

Thanks Google. Think I’ll be buying this. I want as little to do with Google’s services as possible in my life, but they really deserve credits for making a modern usable smartphone that is reasonably open. There is just one single feature I will be buying this for - the 5 years of software updates. While good image processing is definitely a pro, all of these software you’re presenting features I really don’t give a damn about. Just give me a phone that is meant to last a little while - and allow me to run what I damn please. This looks to be like a continuation of the Pixel 5, which allows you run your own software like /e/OS and CalyxOS aside to just being a lot less of a walled garden on the stock ROM. The Android market is completely dire, and no vendor can be trusted to provide openness, reasonable taste or security updates. They sell you a phone, and once you’ve clicked buy they’ve already stopped caring. So last year I switched to an iPhone 12. I needed to vote with my wallet to get a phone that lasts. But although I get what’s appealing about iPhones and the walled garden, I started feeling claustrophobic. Feeling claustrophobic about what I can tailor about my browser, how easily I can run Game Boy games, what ads I can block, and Apple’s stated intents to actively incriminate you by scanning your photos on a personal device. I will continue to recommend those phones for most people (pending what they’re going to do with trying to incriminate you), but it’s not for me. Finally here’s a seemingly good Android phone with 5 years of support - from the only phone vendor outside of Apple who appears to give a damn about that aspect. Don’t get me wrong: 5 years is still too short in my view, and not as long as Apple provides support for on their stuff [1]. But the market needs change, and I’ll put money towards that. [1]: The iPhone 5S has just hit 8 years of _kernel_ security updates last month with iOS 12.5.5. One can dream on the Android side, but I’ll take 5 years in the current market.

cobertos 5y ago
> from the only phone vendor outside of Apple who appears to give a damn about that aspect I hope the hardware is solid too. After having 2 Google phones die just outside of warranty to bootlooping, I'm skeptical they'll be able to make them last.
- thecolorblue 5y ago
  Which phones did you have trouble with? I am still using my pixel 3. I was going to upgrade just for more storage (the camera updates are nice too).
  - cobertos 5y ago
    OG Pixel and Nexus 5X IIRC. I'm on a Pixel 3 currently and it's still pretty stable. Wanted to play more with a PinePhone as my next phone though
bredren 5y ago
> that is reasonably open. I am curious if the courts will agree given the evidence of Google secretly paying carriers not to open their own app stores.
tonoto 5y ago
Your text could basically be mine. I'm utterly tired of Google's attitude and how little they really care about their customers. They have really cool tech and solutions, but their total neglectance of the individual but somewhat high attention of activists have made my view of a #1 company down the slope, I guess I would at one point have to try applying for some position to hopefully change my mind on that point. I have a love/hate relationship regarding their Android ecosystem and lack of possibilites to keep an updated phone up to date more than 1-2 years.. so after many years listening to the Apple ambassadors among (okay, mostly non-tech) friends and finally went all-in on the Apple way of doing stuff, bought their "Pro"-version of wireless headset, their smart watch series 7 and their "Pro"-version smartphone series 12 (supplied from my work). I feel totally claustrophobic about the lack of options and what Apple enforces. Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Safari, switching doesn't matter.. everything is Safari/Webkit engine, no firefox extensions. Control volume of an app/media - no way, everything should have the same volume.. so my phone remains muted 24/7 and I hope important stuff vibrates on the watch (which is of course also muted as I cannot clearly select what notifications should sound or not). If it weren't for my old android phone no longer receiveing updates I would switch back to my now three year old phone, at least that one let me unlock my screen with my fingers.. The Apple way is more.. if I, in the middle of the night, want to change track on my Bose Sleepbuds - I cannot do it unless I widely open my eyes and stare on the Apple camera so I am wide awake. But an Android with 5 year lifespan.. then it starts getting interesting again.
- tonoto 5y ago
  ... no Google Pixels for Sweden so no, apparently not for me.
pacman2 5y ago
"Thanks Google. Think I’ll be buying this." Well I wont. I will look for an accumulator replacement for my Pixel one. 700 USD every few years? Quite a bit of money. Screensize? We had a joke in our (European) high school to tease someone: You shoe size develops like 10, 11, 12, coffin for children, coffin for adults, motorboat... Looks like the same thing is happening to cell phone screens.
wvenable 5y ago
Samsung announced 5 years of Android updates months ago. Before that, it was 4 years of updates.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  Is it 5 years of Android updates or 5 years of security updates?
  - bobviolier 5y ago
    Security updates, I am afraid. At least that's what the launch video said.
    - ChemSpider 5y ago
      Security updates (only) is fine. Except a few geeks, nobody I know cares what Android version she has.
      - Leherenn 5y ago
        Especially since lots of components are updated outside Android updates. The browser and many other things will keep on being updated independently.
  - wvenable 5y ago
    For both Google and Samsung, security updates. Google says "Feature drops for at least three years from when the device first became available on the Google Store in the US." on the shop page footnotes. Samsung says you get 3 major Android updates on your devices. Therefore, Samsung is a better deal for updates assuming Google doesn't release a new major Android version every year.
    - kadoban 5y ago
      Does Samsung still take an eternity to do the actual updates once they're available from Goog?
meetups323 5y ago
Do you think Google doesn't scan photos uploaded to its cloud services for CSAM?
- aaomidi 5y ago
  Do you understand how it's different when it's on their servers vs having the functionality to scan for anything they want on your phone? We don't need to have this discussion again. Please go research the hundreds of thousands of discussions and blog posts about how what apple is proposing to do is entirely different.
  - 0des 5y ago
    > We don't need to have this discussion again. There's no need for this tone. People will disagree, and that's what makes this place great.
    - aaomidi 5y ago
      This isn't disagreeing. This is not doing basic reading before commenting.
      - concinds 5y ago
        This is not a case of "not doing basic reading". It's not a settled debate. The anti-CSAM scanning side has advanced a lot of spurious arguments and quite a lot of misinformation, some of which was spread by NGOs and orgs like the EFF (!!!) and more. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28176418 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28176418
  - theshrike79 5y ago
    Yes, I understand. When they scan it on my phone, they don't need to scan it in the cloud. They have one less reason to touch my stuff when it's on their servers. One step closer to full E2EE. Every major cloud provider is already scanning every photo you put up and in most cases without any human review. Your photo gets flagged and it's good bye account. Next step: HN front page to maybe get a human to look at your case.
marcellus23 5y ago
> Apple’s stated intents to actively incriminate you by scanning your photos on a personal device More accurately put, their intent is to scan cloud photos for exact matches with known child pornography material (like every other cloud provider, including Google), and then have the case reviewed by a human only after multiple positives, and only then forwarding the case to law enforcement (based on photos you chose to upload to the cloud)
- artificialLimbs 5y ago
  This is the stated initial iteration.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- darth_avocado 5y ago
  Correct, but there have been known False positives that have hash collisions in this system. That is something to care about considering the trust in law enforcement is eroding day by day
  - theshrike79 5y ago
    The false positives are matches with absolute gibberish generated photos.
- flutas 5y ago
  > their intent is to scan cloud photos corrected: their intent is to scan all photos in your photo library, on your device, including images automatically pulled in from from various sources such as messages, if you have iCloud Photo enabled.
  - simonh 5y ago
    They do not have the ability to scan photos stored on your phone that are not uploaded to iCloud. The scan is only implemented in the iCloud photos upload system.
whichquestion 5y ago
5 years of security updates, 3 years of feature updates. On the page it says on the 12th footnote, "Feature drops for at least 3 years from when the device first became available on the Google Store in the US. Your Pixel will receive feature drops during the applicable Android update and support periods for the phone. See g.co/pixel/updates for details." On https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705 https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705 it says, "Guaranteed Android version updates until at least: October 2024" and "Guaranteed security updates until at least: October 2026" for Pixel 6 and Pixel 6 Pro So they hypothetically could extend it to more than 3 years of feature updates and 5 years of security updates with the nebulous "at least" wording.
- ehsankia 5y ago
  Historically, they have. Older pixels all had 2 year feature 3 year security, but ended up getting 3 year feature+security. Although, after 1-2 year, the features get a bit thinner because a lot of the newer features rely on new hardware that the older phones don't fully have. Sometimes they try to make it work, like how Astrophotography was available on older pixels but didn't work quite as well as on Pixel 4. But in general, they probably put the "at least" because it's hard to guarantee that a feature in 5 years will be backportable to Pixel 6.
- howinteresting 5y ago
  Unlike iOS where basic features like the web browser require system updates, Android is modular and updates get pushed through other channels independently of the OS itself.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Which is ok, and if you don’t use Safari then you don’t have to worry about this.
    - howinteresting 5y ago
      I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic here--all iOS browsers are custom skins on top of Safari. Yes I'm aware of WKWebView and how it's not the same as Safari. I'm using the classic meaning of browser skins, dating back to browsers like Maxthon which were wrappers over Trident in exactly the same way.
taylorlapeyre 5y ago
>> Apple’s stated intents to actively incriminate you by scanning your photos on a personal device You do realize that Google also scans your images for CP, and furthermore that Google's current business model is literally surveillance advertisement, right?
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  Sounds like they want to run a degoogled ROM on their device, which is paradoxically much easier with the Google Pixel line than other devices out there.
- bduerst 5y ago
  Just FYI, Google has gone on the record to say they don't use Google Photos commercially for any promotional purposes, unless they ask for the user's explicit permission first. The hoopla with Apple doing on-device scanning is that Apple has invested heavily into marketing it's privacy focus claims.
progbits 5y ago
Definitely agreed, longer software support would be nice. On the other hand the repairability is important too, if you can replace battery and fix a broken screen easily the phone is unlikely to be useful after that many years anyway. I think the previous pixels were reasonably good in that regard (not compared to framework of course). Improving that would be higher priority in my eyes. Software support can always come later: even once the official support is dropped the community can backport AOSP fixes etc.
- meltedcapacitor 5y ago
  AOSP does not help with the mountain of closed vendor blobs at the bottom of the stack.
bung 5y ago
Interesting comment regarding voting with your wallet and choosing Apple for the software. The hardware guys seems really unhappy with Apple's "walled garden".
qwertox 5y ago
Software support is 5 years in security upgrades and 3 in OS upgrades [1] (at minimum, so it depends on their mood). In my case it's -1 year because I prefer to wait up to a year until I get a good deal, and then there's always the option to put LineageOS on the Pixel devices [2]. [1] https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en [2] https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#google https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#google
tdrdt 5y ago
Germany tries to push for a 7 year minimum update policy in the EU. If the EU agrees this will be very interesting for the smartphone market. 5 years of security updates is already great.
- distances 5y ago
  I agree. Three years is clearly too short. After five the battery would usually need replacing, but the devices being what they are, one probably opts for a new phone.
reincarnate0x14 5y ago
> I want as little to do with Google’s services as possible in my life As a Fi and Fiber user, those services have actually been really solid and reasonably priced. Android wise, Calyx maintains a nice de-googled one (https://calyxos.org/install/ https://calyxos.org/install/ ) and they will sell you an unlocked phone at a reasonable price if you are a member. We use one on Google Fi with no issues in any of about 10 countries so far.
- easton_s 5y ago
  I like frictionless Fi is. Phone breaks? No prob. Grab a cheap Moto phone from the Fi store listing, get it in the mail the next day, and setup in 5 mins. Go over on data? No prob. Pay a prorated price at the exact same rate.
  - reincarnate0x14 5y ago
    It's been by far the best phone service I've ever dealt with, although to be fair that is a really low bar. The international pricing was what made me switch over, but everything else has been great since.
  - m0zg 5y ago
    > Go over on data? Or you could be a T-Mobile subscriber and never "go over" on data, even when abroad. It just gets slower, but that's fine most of the time, at least for me. It's amazing to be able to use even slow internet in the butt crack of the world somewhere without paying an extra dime - that's the way it ought to be on all carriers.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      Fi has infinite free slow data too. "Going over" in a way that involves money is only relevant to the first few gigabytes on the $0-60 data plan. (Unlimited Plus is flat $50 of data)
  - shaklee3 5y ago
    That's literally any mvno. Try mint mobile for one far cheaper than fi.
rumblerock 5y ago
As a former Pixel user that switched because I broke the phone and had an extra iPhone in the family, there are a number of reasons I'm heavily considering switching back (had been an Android user since 2009). 1. Spam call screening is nonexistent on the iPhone, and T-Mobile's blocker still lets a ton of them through. In my prior experience Google did a much better job in this department. It would be nice to pick up the phone without a 90% chance of an annoying spam call. 2. Speech to text on iPhone makes a lot of mistakes and Google's latest update looks like they've widened the gap even more. I don't want to handle my phone to text while driving, and when the interpretation is wrong it requires extra keystrokes to try again, correct it, or type the message if urgent. This is unsafe. 3. I find FaceID annoying, and after replacing the iPhone screen because I cracked it, FaceID got noticeably worse. With a fingerprint I can have the phone unlocked before I even pull it out of my pocket, especially these days when we have masks on. Plenty of other sexy features like camera and the customer service line feature are very nice to have, but in my opinion these are major benefits in terms of everyday usability. The overall integration across services is just smoother too, in terms of flows like email -> calendar -> google maps live traffic, or email -> boarding pass QR code. I am and will always be a PC user so I don't benefit from those integrations with Apple products. Making the switch will require ditching Airpods and the Apple Watch, but I think it might be worth it for me.
- ncr100 5y ago
  For 1, and 2 my individual (single data point!) experience through all versions of the Pixel have been great. I've been saddened that Google keeps the Spam filtration feature locked to the Pixel devices. It is a KILLER FEATURE. And for STT - that "just works" 95% of my time that I use it with common vocabulary. The hardware has failed me a couple of times - sudden battery failure, and battery cable tearing with a reasonable, slight fall - though so consider one of the warranty options.
  - ddalex 5y ago
    > I've been saddened that Google keeps the Spam filtration feature locked to the Pixel devices. It is a KILLER FEATURE. Why would anybody share killer features with competition ?
NotPractical 5y ago
> I will continue to recommend those phones for most people (pending what they’re going to do with trying to incriminate you), but it’s not for me. Why? Despite what Apple would have you believe, Pixel phones aren't "more complicated" than iPhones. They're just a little different. For example, I recently had to use an iPhone and the interface was difficult to use, coming from Android. Not because it was inherently confusing, but because I simply wasn't used to it. But I'm sure it would have only taken a few days to adjust.
throwaway81523 5y ago
> 5 years of support I'll wait for the iFixit report on how difficult it is to replace the battery, before believing in a phone lasting that long. Also as usual for the pixels, there is no analog headphone jack. Still I can't believe I'm at least somewhat interested in a $600 phone since I'm not that much of a mobile user. I wonder if they will do a 6A version any time soon. The main difference between the 6 and the 6 pro is the pro adds a telephoto camera, right? Anandtech article is up: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16939/google-announces-pixel-6-pixel-6-pro-the-new-real-flagship-pixels https://www.anandtech.com/show/16939/google-announces-pixel-... I'm still somewhat leaning towards a 5a as my next phone, as it's already more than I want to spend.
- 2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
  My parents used several handed down iPhones for 6+ years each. I see no reason Google didn’t buy similarly good batteries.
  - throwaway81523 5y ago
    Batteries have to be replaced once in a while, thus the famous story about iphones slowing down as the batteries get weaker. Maybe your parents were lucky or maybe their phones slowed down without their noticing it, or maybe the phones already had replacement batteries when your parents got them? Apple took a significant financial hit the year they offered $29.95 battery replacement since people got their batteries replaced instead of buying new phones that year. I have a family member with an iphone se (2016 model) and it has needed a battery replacement. No big deal with the ifixit kit. But it seems to me, phones with wireless charging seem to have harder to replace batteries a lot of the time. The Pixel 2 is notoriously difficult. So I'll wait to see what happens with the 6. Of course I'm even more interested in a 6a, if they make one of those. I'm enough of a throwback to still want to use wired headphones.
turtlebits 5y ago
Pixel phones have absolutely not been reliable for me. From the Pixel 1 microphone defect to it needing a reboot every few days, and my Pixel 4A boot looping, Google phones are absolutely not reliable IME. (Almost as bad a Razer laptops).
- zik 5y ago
  I have a pixel phone myself and know four other people with them and they've all been perfectly reliable. Not a single issue.
  - alinhan 5y ago
    3 Pixel phones and no issues here either. My old Nexus 5 finally bit the dust only last year.
- sliken 5y ago
  I've had the HTC G1 (first android), G2, every generation of nexus and every generation of pixel. Never had a problem.
soylentnewsorg 5y ago
One doesn't have to dream. Flashing a rom on google-branded phones is so simple, a non-tech person can follow a 5min youtube video to do it. The Nexus 6 from 2014 can have the latest android running on it - not just security updates. And unlike an iphone, it has a build that disables some eyecandy that keeps it actually usable and fast. As I understand it if you run the last supported ios on an iphone 5s, with all the patches, you can take a nap while waiting for the answer slider to draw when you get a call. IS that the dreaming you're talking about? During the nap? I'm a tech guy though. had a nexus 6, now got a pixel2. all custom roms, completely degoogled. In addition to phone tasks, I use the phone for solitaire, basic web reading, and email. I charge once per week. Both phones are extremely easy to flash. No hacking or exploits required.
- Stephen304 5y ago
  I just flashed my pixel 2 to lineage 18 now that it's not receiving updates, and I was disappointed to discover that because of SafetyNet, I can't use Google pay in stores or install the Netflix app. So to me it's still less than ideal.
- calvinmorrison 5y ago
  Yeah I am running CalyxOS on my pixels, works splendid
- josephg 5y ago
  I love the openness of android, and the explicit permission to root your phone. But iphones have amazing longevity. The iphone 5s you mentioned came out in 2013 - which is 8 years ago now. Back then Obama was still in his first term. Maybe it is way too slow to handle the most recent version of iOS, but I'd rather a phone vendor that releases operating system updates for 8 years than a vendor who releases updates for only 2 years (like you get with certain android vendors.) Last year I replaced my iphone 6s with an iphone 12. The thing that astonishes me is that I didn't need to. After a battery replacement, my 5 year old iphone was still running fine. It still runs the latest OS, and it ran every app I threw at it with aplomb. I really only upgraded it as a personal indulgence. Its still in use by a friend. I'm absolutely on board with complaints about apple's lock in. I'm disgusted by some of the documents that came out in the epic court case, and I wish you could easily root iphones. But it feels like a stretch to complain about their longevity.
EastOfTruth 5y ago
> I want as little to do with Google’s services as possible in my life Yet you buy into the most intrusive of them all... an Android device.
ezconnect 5y ago
So positive about something you haven't tried yet. That's like a guerilla marketing piece you wrote there.
0x38B 5y ago
For years, I used an iPad and a Pixel, and now - a Surface running Linux and an iPhone. I always thought iOS had better, higher quality apps, and in some areas, that's true - Procreate for art, first-party games, etc. But I miss powerful, functional apps. I love the way Moon+ Reader tracks every single reading session, time spent and WPM. And nothing on iOS comes close to Smart Audiobook Player, although Bound is decent. My iPhone is a great phone and a poor computer, whereas Android's MiXplorer and Termux empower me to, in a pinch, do whatever I need to do. iOS's best equivalent apps consistently fail to copy files over SMB or SCP (they get killed in the background or just fail), while Apple's Files app can't even write to my writable SMB share that works everywhere else. In short, while my iPhone wins on battery life, speed, and support, the Pixel (and by extension Android) beat it in power and freedom. Perhaps this all proves that Android suits the needs of this power-user and tinkerer better.
DeathArrow 5y ago
>I want as little to do with Google’s services as possible in my life If I buy one I will install LineageOS on it as soon as possible.
DeathArrow 5y ago
>Finally here’s a seemingly good Android phone with 5 years of support - from the only phone vendor outside of Apple who appears to give a damn about that aspect. I've got updates from both Huawei and Xiaomi many years after the phones stopped being sold. I've heard that OnePlus does the same.
grumpyprole 5y ago
I've been tempted by iPhone in the past for precisely this reason. But there's so many things it can't do on the software side. For example, with regard to music, FLAC support is poor and there's missing Bluetooth codecs like LDAC. Call screening, anti-spam and file sync are also not good enough for my needs.
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
> Finally here’s a seemingly good Android phone with 5 years of support - from the only phone vendor outside of Apple who appears to give a damn about that aspect. FairPhone 4 not only promises 5 years of android software updates but also has 5 years of warranty, There are more reasons to trust their words than any of the other phone manufacturers. • They are not profit focused but rather towards sustainability, They have been delivering their promises consistently for 8 years and so it's not an idealistic vaporware. • They produce the most repairable smartphone using components sourced from conflict free areas. Parts for repair are available directly on their site, Parts for FairPhone 1 are still available. • Their factory workers get living wage bonus, Of course do not employ child labor while preaching humanity. • They have first class support for alternate operating systems i.e. We are the owners of what we buy; So support from alternate OS like Linux, Sailfish or even android ROMs like LineageOS could exceed even the official 5 years support. FairPhone4 hardware is competent enough for average daily use, Only drawback I see is that the phone is available only in Europe. Then again Google Pixel phones have been notorious for being available in only couple of countries. [1] https://shop.fairphone.com/en/ https://shop.fairphone.com/en/
- L_226 5y ago
  I bought a Fairphone 3+ 10 weeks ago, and just got a refund because they cannot build any units. I really wanted this, I guess I will continue to wait for the librem5
  - guareber8 5y ago
    I was curious and just checked into the librem5. I am NOT spending $900 on a phone.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      It's not just a phone. It's a full desktop Linux computer with lifetime updates, which you can connect to a screen and keyboard and which runs a desktop OS.
  - Gustomaximus 5y ago

by DCKing 5y ago

cobertos 5y ago

> from the only phone vendor outside of Apple who appears to give a damn about that aspect I hope the hardware is solid too. After having 2 Google phones die just outside of warranty to bootlooping, I'm skeptical they'll be able to make them last.

thecolorblue 5y ago
Which phones did you have trouble with? I am still using my pixel 3. I was going to upgrade just for more storage (the camera updates are nice too).
- cobertos 5y ago
  OG Pixel and Nexus 5X IIRC. I'm on a Pixel 3 currently and it's still pretty stable. Wanted to play more with a PinePhone as my next phone though

bredren 5y ago

> that is reasonably open. I am curious if the courts will agree given the evidence of Google secretly paying carriers not to open their own app stores.

tonoto 5y ago

Your text could basically be mine. I'm utterly tired of Google's attitude and how little they really care about their customers. They have really cool tech and solutions, but their total neglectance of the individual but somewhat high attention of activists have made my view of a #1 company down the slope, I guess I would at one point have to try applying for some position to hopefully change my mind on that point. I have a love/hate relationship regarding their Android ecosystem and lack of possibilites to keep an updated phone up to date more than 1-2 years.. so after many years listening to the Apple ambassadors among (okay, mostly non-tech) friends and finally went all-in on the Apple way of doing stuff, bought their "Pro"-version of wireless headset, their smart watch series 7 and their "Pro"-version smartphone series 12 (supplied from my work). I feel totally claustrophobic about the lack of options and what Apple enforces. Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Safari, switching doesn't matter.. everything is Safari/Webkit engine, no firefox extensions. Control volume of an app/media - no way, everything should have the same volume.. so my phone remains muted 24/7 and I hope important stuff vibrates on the watch (which is of course also muted as I cannot clearly select what notifications should sound or not). If it weren't for my old android phone no longer receiveing updates I would switch back to my now three year old phone, at least that one let me unlock my screen with my fingers.. The Apple way is more.. if I, in the middle of the night, want to change track on my Bose Sleepbuds - I cannot do it unless I widely open my eyes and stare on the Apple camera so I am wide awake. But an Android with 5 year lifespan.. then it starts getting interesting again.

tonoto 5y ago
... no Google Pixels for Sweden so no, apparently not for me.

pacman2 5y ago

"Thanks Google. Think I’ll be buying this." Well I wont. I will look for an accumulator replacement for my Pixel one. 700 USD every few years? Quite a bit of money. Screensize? We had a joke in our (European) high school to tease someone: You shoe size develops like 10, 11, 12, coffin for children, coffin for adults, motorboat... Looks like the same thing is happening to cell phone screens.

wvenable 5y ago

Samsung announced 5 years of Android updates months ago. Before that, it was 4 years of updates.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
Is it 5 years of Android updates or 5 years of security updates?
- bobviolier 5y ago
  Security updates, I am afraid. At least that's what the launch video said.
  - ChemSpider 5y ago
    Security updates (only) is fine. Except a few geeks, nobody I know cares what Android version she has.
    - Leherenn 5y ago
      Especially since lots of components are updated outside Android updates. The browser and many other things will keep on being updated independently.
- wvenable 5y ago
  For both Google and Samsung, security updates. Google says "Feature drops for at least three years from when the device first became available on the Google Store in the US." on the shop page footnotes. Samsung says you get 3 major Android updates on your devices. Therefore, Samsung is a better deal for updates assuming Google doesn't release a new major Android version every year.
  - kadoban 5y ago
    Does Samsung still take an eternity to do the actual updates once they're available from Goog?

meetups323 5y ago

Do you think Google doesn't scan photos uploaded to its cloud services for CSAM?

aaomidi 5y ago
Do you understand how it's different when it's on their servers vs having the functionality to scan for anything they want on your phone? We don't need to have this discussion again. Please go research the hundreds of thousands of discussions and blog posts about how what apple is proposing to do is entirely different.
- 0des 5y ago
  > We don't need to have this discussion again. There's no need for this tone. People will disagree, and that's what makes this place great.
  - aaomidi 5y ago
    This isn't disagreeing. This is not doing basic reading before commenting.
    - concinds 5y ago
      This is not a case of "not doing basic reading". It's not a settled debate. The anti-CSAM scanning side has advanced a lot of spurious arguments and quite a lot of misinformation, some of which was spread by NGOs and orgs like the EFF (!!!) and more. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28176418 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28176418
- theshrike79 5y ago
  Yes, I understand. When they scan it on my phone, they don't need to scan it in the cloud. They have one less reason to touch my stuff when it's on their servers. One step closer to full E2EE. Every major cloud provider is already scanning every photo you put up and in most cases without any human review. Your photo gets flagged and it's good bye account. Next step: HN front page to maybe get a human to look at your case.

marcellus23 5y ago

> Apple’s stated intents to actively incriminate you by scanning your photos on a personal device More accurately put, their intent is to scan cloud photos for exact matches with known child pornography material (like every other cloud provider, including Google), and then have the case reviewed by a human only after multiple positives, and only then forwarding the case to law enforcement (based on photos you chose to upload to the cloud)

artificialLimbs 5y ago
This is the stated initial iteration.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
darth_avocado 5y ago
Correct, but there have been known False positives that have hash collisions in this system. That is something to care about considering the trust in law enforcement is eroding day by day
- theshrike79 5y ago
  The false positives are matches with absolute gibberish generated photos.
flutas 5y ago
> their intent is to scan cloud photos corrected: their intent is to scan all photos in your photo library, on your device, including images automatically pulled in from from various sources such as messages, if you have iCloud Photo enabled.
- simonh 5y ago
  They do not have the ability to scan photos stored on your phone that are not uploaded to iCloud. The scan is only implemented in the iCloud photos upload system.

whichquestion 5y ago

5 years of security updates, 3 years of feature updates. On the page it says on the 12th footnote, "Feature drops for at least 3 years from when the device first became available on the Google Store in the US. Your Pixel will receive feature drops during the applicable Android update and support periods for the phone. See g.co/pixel/updates for details." On https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705 https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705 it says, "Guaranteed Android version updates until at least: October 2024" and "Guaranteed security updates until at least: October 2026" for Pixel 6 and Pixel 6 Pro So they hypothetically could extend it to more than 3 years of feature updates and 5 years of security updates with the nebulous "at least" wording.

ehsankia 5y ago
Historically, they have. Older pixels all had 2 year feature 3 year security, but ended up getting 3 year feature+security. Although, after 1-2 year, the features get a bit thinner because a lot of the newer features rely on new hardware that the older phones don't fully have. Sometimes they try to make it work, like how Astrophotography was available on older pixels but didn't work quite as well as on Pixel 4. But in general, they probably put the "at least" because it's hard to guarantee that a feature in 5 years will be backportable to Pixel 6.
howinteresting 5y ago
Unlike iOS where basic features like the web browser require system updates, Android is modular and updates get pushed through other channels independently of the OS itself.
- ericmay 5y ago
  Which is ok, and if you don’t use Safari then you don’t have to worry about this.
  - howinteresting 5y ago
    I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic here--all iOS browsers are custom skins on top of Safari. Yes I'm aware of WKWebView and how it's not the same as Safari. I'm using the classic meaning of browser skins, dating back to browsers like Maxthon which were wrappers over Trident in exactly the same way.

taylorlapeyre 5y ago

>> Apple’s stated intents to actively incriminate you by scanning your photos on a personal device You do realize that Google also scans your images for CP, and furthermore that Google's current business model is literally surveillance advertisement, right?

CameronNemo 5y ago
Sounds like they want to run a degoogled ROM on their device, which is paradoxically much easier with the Google Pixel line than other devices out there.
bduerst 5y ago
Just FYI, Google has gone on the record to say they don't use Google Photos commercially for any promotional purposes, unless they ask for the user's explicit permission first. The hoopla with Apple doing on-device scanning is that Apple has invested heavily into marketing it's privacy focus claims.

progbits 5y ago

Definitely agreed, longer software support would be nice. On the other hand the repairability is important too, if you can replace battery and fix a broken screen easily the phone is unlikely to be useful after that many years anyway. I think the previous pixels were reasonably good in that regard (not compared to framework of course). Improving that would be higher priority in my eyes. Software support can always come later: even once the official support is dropped the community can backport AOSP fixes etc.

meltedcapacitor 5y ago
AOSP does not help with the mountain of closed vendor blobs at the bottom of the stack.

bung 5y ago

Interesting comment regarding voting with your wallet and choosing Apple for the software. The hardware guys seems really unhappy with Apple's "walled garden".

qwertox 5y ago

Software support is 5 years in security upgrades and 3 in OS upgrades [1] (at minimum, so it depends on their mood). In my case it's -1 year because I prefer to wait up to a year until I get a good deal, and then there's always the option to put LineageOS on the Pixel devices [2]. [1] https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en [2] https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#google https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#google

tdrdt 5y ago

Germany tries to push for a 7 year minimum update policy in the EU. If the EU agrees this will be very interesting for the smartphone market. 5 years of security updates is already great.

distances 5y ago
I agree. Three years is clearly too short. After five the battery would usually need replacing, but the devices being what they are, one probably opts for a new phone.

reincarnate0x14 5y ago

> I want as little to do with Google’s services as possible in my life As a Fi and Fiber user, those services have actually been really solid and reasonably priced. Android wise, Calyx maintains a nice de-googled one (https://calyxos.org/install/ https://calyxos.org/install/ ) and they will sell you an unlocked phone at a reasonable price if you are a member. We use one on Google Fi with no issues in any of about 10 countries so far.

easton_s 5y ago
I like frictionless Fi is. Phone breaks? No prob. Grab a cheap Moto phone from the Fi store listing, get it in the mail the next day, and setup in 5 mins. Go over on data? No prob. Pay a prorated price at the exact same rate.
- reincarnate0x14 5y ago
  It's been by far the best phone service I've ever dealt with, although to be fair that is a really low bar. The international pricing was what made me switch over, but everything else has been great since.
- m0zg 5y ago
  > Go over on data? Or you could be a T-Mobile subscriber and never "go over" on data, even when abroad. It just gets slower, but that's fine most of the time, at least for me. It's amazing to be able to use even slow internet in the butt crack of the world somewhere without paying an extra dime - that's the way it ought to be on all carriers.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    Fi has infinite free slow data too. "Going over" in a way that involves money is only relevant to the first few gigabytes on the $0-60 data plan. (Unlimited Plus is flat $50 of data)
- shaklee3 5y ago
  That's literally any mvno. Try mint mobile for one far cheaper than fi.

rumblerock 5y ago

As a former Pixel user that switched because I broke the phone and had an extra iPhone in the family, there are a number of reasons I'm heavily considering switching back (had been an Android user since 2009). 1. Spam call screening is nonexistent on the iPhone, and T-Mobile's blocker still lets a ton of them through. In my prior experience Google did a much better job in this department. It would be nice to pick up the phone without a 90% chance of an annoying spam call. 2. Speech to text on iPhone makes a lot of mistakes and Google's latest update looks like they've widened the gap even more. I don't want to handle my phone to text while driving, and when the interpretation is wrong it requires extra keystrokes to try again, correct it, or type the message if urgent. This is unsafe. 3. I find FaceID annoying, and after replacing the iPhone screen because I cracked it, FaceID got noticeably worse. With a fingerprint I can have the phone unlocked before I even pull it out of my pocket, especially these days when we have masks on. Plenty of other sexy features like camera and the customer service line feature are very nice to have, but in my opinion these are major benefits in terms of everyday usability. The overall integration across services is just smoother too, in terms of flows like email -> calendar -> google maps live traffic, or email -> boarding pass QR code. I am and will always be a PC user so I don't benefit from those integrations with Apple products. Making the switch will require ditching Airpods and the Apple Watch, but I think it might be worth it for me.

ncr100 5y ago
For 1, and 2 my individual (single data point!) experience through all versions of the Pixel have been great. I've been saddened that Google keeps the Spam filtration feature locked to the Pixel devices. It is a KILLER FEATURE. And for STT - that "just works" 95% of my time that I use it with common vocabulary. The hardware has failed me a couple of times - sudden battery failure, and battery cable tearing with a reasonable, slight fall - though so consider one of the warranty options.
- ddalex 5y ago
  > I've been saddened that Google keeps the Spam filtration feature locked to the Pixel devices. It is a KILLER FEATURE. Why would anybody share killer features with competition ?

NotPractical 5y ago

> I will continue to recommend those phones for most people (pending what they’re going to do with trying to incriminate you), but it’s not for me. Why? Despite what Apple would have you believe, Pixel phones aren't "more complicated" than iPhones. They're just a little different. For example, I recently had to use an iPhone and the interface was difficult to use, coming from Android. Not because it was inherently confusing, but because I simply wasn't used to it. But I'm sure it would have only taken a few days to adjust.

throwaway81523 5y ago

> 5 years of support I'll wait for the iFixit report on how difficult it is to replace the battery, before believing in a phone lasting that long. Also as usual for the pixels, there is no analog headphone jack. Still I can't believe I'm at least somewhat interested in a $600 phone since I'm not that much of a mobile user. I wonder if they will do a 6A version any time soon. The main difference between the 6 and the 6 pro is the pro adds a telephoto camera, right? Anandtech article is up: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16939/google-announces-pixel-6-pixel-6-pro-the-new-real-flagship-pixels https://www.anandtech.com/show/16939/google-announces-pixel-... I'm still somewhat leaning towards a 5a as my next phone, as it's already more than I want to spend.

2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
My parents used several handed down iPhones for 6+ years each. I see no reason Google didn’t buy similarly good batteries.
- throwaway81523 5y ago
  Batteries have to be replaced once in a while, thus the famous story about iphones slowing down as the batteries get weaker. Maybe your parents were lucky or maybe their phones slowed down without their noticing it, or maybe the phones already had replacement batteries when your parents got them? Apple took a significant financial hit the year they offered $29.95 battery replacement since people got their batteries replaced instead of buying new phones that year. I have a family member with an iphone se (2016 model) and it has needed a battery replacement. No big deal with the ifixit kit. But it seems to me, phones with wireless charging seem to have harder to replace batteries a lot of the time. The Pixel 2 is notoriously difficult. So I'll wait to see what happens with the 6. Of course I'm even more interested in a 6a, if they make one of those. I'm enough of a throwback to still want to use wired headphones.

turtlebits 5y ago

Pixel phones have absolutely not been reliable for me. From the Pixel 1 microphone defect to it needing a reboot every few days, and my Pixel 4A boot looping, Google phones are absolutely not reliable IME. (Almost as bad a Razer laptops).

zik 5y ago
I have a pixel phone myself and know four other people with them and they've all been perfectly reliable. Not a single issue.
- alinhan 5y ago
  3 Pixel phones and no issues here either. My old Nexus 5 finally bit the dust only last year.
sliken 5y ago
I've had the HTC G1 (first android), G2, every generation of nexus and every generation of pixel. Never had a problem.

soylentnewsorg 5y ago

One doesn't have to dream. Flashing a rom on google-branded phones is so simple, a non-tech person can follow a 5min youtube video to do it. The Nexus 6 from 2014 can have the latest android running on it - not just security updates. And unlike an iphone, it has a build that disables some eyecandy that keeps it actually usable and fast. As I understand it if you run the last supported ios on an iphone 5s, with all the patches, you can take a nap while waiting for the answer slider to draw when you get a call. IS that the dreaming you're talking about? During the nap? I'm a tech guy though. had a nexus 6, now got a pixel2. all custom roms, completely degoogled. In addition to phone tasks, I use the phone for solitaire, basic web reading, and email. I charge once per week. Both phones are extremely easy to flash. No hacking or exploits required.

Stephen304 5y ago
I just flashed my pixel 2 to lineage 18 now that it's not receiving updates, and I was disappointed to discover that because of SafetyNet, I can't use Google pay in stores or install the Netflix app. So to me it's still less than ideal.
calvinmorrison 5y ago
Yeah I am running CalyxOS on my pixels, works splendid
josephg 5y ago
I love the openness of android, and the explicit permission to root your phone. But iphones have amazing longevity. The iphone 5s you mentioned came out in 2013 - which is 8 years ago now. Back then Obama was still in his first term. Maybe it is way too slow to handle the most recent version of iOS, but I'd rather a phone vendor that releases operating system updates for 8 years than a vendor who releases updates for only 2 years (like you get with certain android vendors.) Last year I replaced my iphone 6s with an iphone 12. The thing that astonishes me is that I didn't need to. After a battery replacement, my 5 year old iphone was still running fine. It still runs the latest OS, and it ran every app I threw at it with aplomb. I really only upgraded it as a personal indulgence. Its still in use by a friend. I'm absolutely on board with complaints about apple's lock in. I'm disgusted by some of the documents that came out in the epic court case, and I wish you could easily root iphones. But it feels like a stretch to complain about their longevity.

EastOfTruth 5y ago

> I want as little to do with Google’s services as possible in my life Yet you buy into the most intrusive of them all... an Android device.

ezconnect 5y ago

So positive about something you haven't tried yet. That's like a guerilla marketing piece you wrote there.

0x38B 5y ago

For years, I used an iPad and a Pixel, and now - a Surface running Linux and an iPhone. I always thought iOS had better, higher quality apps, and in some areas, that's true - Procreate for art, first-party games, etc. But I miss powerful, functional apps. I love the way Moon+ Reader tracks every single reading session, time spent and WPM. And nothing on iOS comes close to Smart Audiobook Player, although Bound is decent. My iPhone is a great phone and a poor computer, whereas Android's MiXplorer and Termux empower me to, in a pinch, do whatever I need to do. iOS's best equivalent apps consistently fail to copy files over SMB or SCP (they get killed in the background or just fail), while Apple's Files app can't even write to my writable SMB share that works everywhere else. In short, while my iPhone wins on battery life, speed, and support, the Pixel (and by extension Android) beat it in power and freedom. Perhaps this all proves that Android suits the needs of this power-user and tinkerer better.

DeathArrow 5y ago

>I want as little to do with Google’s services as possible in my life If I buy one I will install LineageOS on it as soon as possible.

DeathArrow 5y ago

>Finally here’s a seemingly good Android phone with 5 years of support - from the only phone vendor outside of Apple who appears to give a damn about that aspect. I've got updates from both Huawei and Xiaomi many years after the phones stopped being sold. I've heard that OnePlus does the same.

grumpyprole 5y ago

I've been tempted by iPhone in the past for precisely this reason. But there's so many things it can't do on the software side. For example, with regard to music, FLAC support is poor and there's missing Bluetooth codecs like LDAC. Call screening, anti-spam and file sync are also not good enough for my needs.

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

> Finally here’s a seemingly good Android phone with 5 years of support - from the only phone vendor outside of Apple who appears to give a damn about that aspect. FairPhone 4 not only promises 5 years of android software updates but also has 5 years of warranty, There are more reasons to trust their words than any of the other phone manufacturers. • They are not profit focused but rather towards sustainability, They have been delivering their promises consistently for 8 years and so it's not an idealistic vaporware. • They produce the most repairable smartphone using components sourced from conflict free areas. Parts for repair are available directly on their site, Parts for FairPhone 1 are still available. • Their factory workers get living wage bonus, Of course do not employ child labor while preaching humanity. • They have first class support for alternate operating systems i.e. We are the owners of what we buy; So support from alternate OS like Linux, Sailfish or even android ROMs like LineageOS could exceed even the official 5 years support. FairPhone4 hardware is competent enough for average daily use, Only drawback I see is that the phone is available only in Europe. Then again Google Pixel phones have been notorious for being available in only couple of countries. [1] https://shop.fairphone.com/en/ https://shop.fairphone.com/en/

L_226 5y ago
I bought a Fairphone 3+ 10 weeks ago, and just got a refund because they cannot build any units. I really wanted this, I guess I will continue to wait for the librem5
- guareber8 5y ago
  I was curious and just checked into the librem5. I am NOT spending $900 on a phone.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    It's not just a phone. It's a full desktop Linux computer with lifetime updates, which you can connect to a screen and keyboard and which runs a desktop OS.
- Gustomaximus 5y ago