20 ms·

PinePhone Pro Announced

496 points by abawany 5y ago

philliphaydon 5y ago
Physically it just looks like every other android phone :( I really wish the Ubuntu phone got funded cos I liked the look of that. Edit: meant ubuntu edge phone not Mozilla.
- dbeley 5y ago
  That's basically because they outsourced the design to a cheap chinese smartphone manufacturer. It was definitely the right choice as the Pinephone has basically zero hardware issues, unlike the Librem 5 or even the Fairphone.
buildbot 5y ago
I can’t wait for pinephone to succeed- hopefully this more powerful hardware + faster ram will help to address latency issues in the UI. Right now it feels like your brain is literally slowing down when interacting with a normal pinephone compared to an iPhone. Not a fair comparison at all I know.
- thepete2 5y ago
  Yes. It seems a more powerful cpu was the most requested improvement to the original Pinephone. I'm glad they listened.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  Isn’t that silly? I could run linux (with GUI) just fine on my Pentium 3. This phone is like 8 times faster just based on clock speed, not to mention memory. How can it not drive a UI without lag?
  - Arch-TK 5y ago
    Because your pentium 3 GUI linux had a GUI designed around pentium 3 era hardware. All the linux phone GUIs seem to be designed around the latest in special GUI effects and animations and transparency. For some reason all the people who know how to design UIs for linux are incapable of understanding hardware requirements.
    - zozbot234 5y ago
      Check out sxmo.org if you're going for a minimalist UI. But the big feature that's missing on these old-style UI's (while it is in, e.g. Phosh) is smooth animations w/ direct 1-to-1 feedback, which is critical for usability w/ modern capacitive touchscreens and quite hard to achieve without GPU acceleration.
      - Arch-TK 5y ago
        I've used a N900 and I don't see what massive difference there is between its resistive touchscreen and a capacitive touchscreen when it comes to user experience. The N900 achieved good feedback using the vibration motor and extremely basic animations. I don't think you realistically need more than what the Hildon UI gave you when it comes to a good user experience. The Hildon UI targeted much older hardware (albeit with proprietary graphics drivers). It should be possible to replicate the performance of the Hildon UI with the lima drivers if an explicit focus was placed on ensuring that above-all the UI was responsive rather than being pretty.
  - TheUnelisted 5y ago
    The problem is that it's not 1-1 with X86, especially in regards to graphics capability (The GPU is really the weak link on the current PinePhone). The GPU for example uses Tile-based rendering, which requires software optimizations to work best... Plus the GPU is just plain slow. It's a first generation ARM Mali graphics core intended for OpenGL ES 2.0 afterall.
    - Aeolun 5y ago
      I’m sorry. I’m not quite sure what everything you said meant, but my P3 didn’t have any GPU at all, so it seems like it shouldn’t matter. I find it hard to believe a ARM CPU would need significantly more cycles to perform the same operations.
  - buildbot 5y ago
    It’s certainly interesting that input latency seems to have taken a back seat in almost all modern systems. I have a touchscreen windows NT computer with PS2 ports, both the keyboard and touchscreen have noticeably less latency than any other device I have. However, it’s really slow when actually opening a program!
    - SahAssar 5y ago
      PS2 has always had much lower latency. Also IIRC the old windows prioritized input handling over pretty much everything else, so it makes sense that even when it is taking a minute to open a website the mouse handling still feels smooth.
  - swiley 5y ago
    Lightweight X11 Desktops like Fluxbox or FVWM work pretty well on the Pinephone, I'm posting from Fluxbox right now infact. Also the main bottleneck is really the slow RAM and not the CPU.
kop316 5y ago
If you want to read more about it, I would recommend reading Pine64's Monthly update: https://www.pine64.org/2021/10/15/october-update-introducing-the-pinephone-pro/ https://www.pine64.org/2021/10/15/october-update-introducing...
nottaylorswift 5y ago
$400? Absolutely never.
justinclift 5y ago
You've got to be frigging kidding. Literally just received a PinePhone earlier this week. And now it's obsolete? Not happy at all. :(
- rjsw 5y ago
  I don't consider the original PinePhone obsolete, I'm still planning to get one at some point even after the announcement today. Suspect you can sell your one on to someone if you want.
- megous 5y ago
  Pinephone is supposed to be manufactured for 5 years since the initial release. Hardly obsolete.
mcdonje 5y ago
I appreciate the blurbs about who it is and isn't for. I'm currently in the latter group, but I commend the project. Now that there's a good hardware target, hopefully the software will catch up.
- 29083011397778 5y ago
  I would argue there was already a reasonably hardware target - the biggest thing was (for me) the modem. It was power-hungry, dropped signal, and for some people, didn't work with VoLTE. The Pro uses the same modem, meaning hardware support has been improving for the last two years :)
CubsFan1060 5y ago
"If you depend on proprietary mainstream mobile messenger applications, banking applications, use loyalty or travel apps, consume DRM media, or play mobile video games on your fruit or Android smartphone, then the PinePhone Pro is likely not for you." Yikes. I appreciate they are up front about it, but that eliminates literally everyone I know.
- ryukafalz 5y ago
  Then literally everyone you know is dependent on either Apple or Google.
  - CubsFan1060 5y ago
    Probably. But I don't think those requirements are unreasonable. It feels like it largely boils down to "I buy a smartphone to accomplish certain tasks easily". If you eliminate many of those tasks, is it a useful device for those people anymore?
    - wbsss4412 5y ago
      I don’t think you’re incorrect in making your point here, yet your framing is a bit unreasonable. Pine phone isn’t supposed to be the equivalent to a modern smartphone. It’s a small project that has an entirely new platform with no major corporate backing. What you’re asking of it isn’t realistic until it has significant enough time and traction to fully mature.
      - CubsFan1060 5y ago
        That's probably a very fair point. I wonder what the minimum modern requirements would be for a viable "mainstream" phone. Common messaging apps (SMS, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, Slack). Social media apps (Facebook, Instagram, TikTok). email (Though an average stock email app is probably sufficient). Google Apps (gmail, google maps, etc..). Navigation (google maps is sufficient for most) Probably some set of games. I suspect the real viable option is being able to run Android apps natively without any special configuration.
tromp 5y ago
A display resolution of 1440x720 feels a bit limited, especially for something labeled "Pro". Wonder why they didn't go for 2160x1080...
- kop316 5y ago
  https://www.pine64.org/2021/10/15/october-update-introducing-the-pinephone-pro/ https://www.pine64.org/2021/10/15/october-update-introducing... They go into it there: "The decision to maintain the original PinePhone’s screen resolution of 1440×720 was made early on; higher resolution panels consume more power and increase SoC’s load, resulting in shorter battery life and higher average thermals. A few extra pixels aren’t worth it."
- MartijnBraam 5y ago
  The resolution is absolutely fine.
belval 5y ago
I curious about the opinion of HN on the absence of 1080p (it's still 720p). Specially this part of the blog post: > The decision to maintain the original PinePhone’s screen resolution of 1440×720 was made early on; higher resolution panels consume more power and increase SoC’s load, resulting in shorter battery life and higher average thermals. A few extra pixels aren’t worth it.[1] While I understand the point they are making, the PinePhone's screen is almost 6" and pixel density is probably the first thing that I notice on a new smartphone. It just seems very low? For context I am fully aware of the project, its goals and that it's not trying to take over the global smartphone market, but for some reason 1080p feels like the baseline in 2021. [1] https://pine64.org/2021/10/15/october-update-introducing-the-pinephone-pro/ https://pine64.org/2021/10/15/october-update-introducing-the...
- Brave-Steak 5y ago
  I think there are far more important aspects to a phone than pixel density. If somebody told me I could get better battery life and performance with lower pixel density, it would be a no-brainer for me to say yes.
- jchw 5y ago
  I own an original PinePhone. Most people are aware of its issues by now, but I always found the screen (and by and large, the general build quality) to be oddly sufficient. It isn’t overkill, but I don’t think it is terribly limiting either. I suppose a higher DPI screen would be a nice luxury, but it can definitely wait for the SoC to catch up.
- noasaservice 5y ago
  > While I understand the point they are making, the PinePhone's screen is almost 6" and pixel density is probably the first thing that I notice on a new smartphone. It just seems very low? With convergence, its HDMI out.
  - belval 5y ago
    Didn't think of that one, that would make sense.
noasaservice 5y ago
Damn, and I just put in an order for the PinePhone 1.5 days ago. Just emailed them to see if they can make this work, and upgrade appropriate for the difference.
- TheUnelisted 5y ago
  Well, the "Explorer Edition" units haven't gone on sale yet. Right now only developer units are on sale, and those are strictly for developers who will contribute to the kernel, firmware, drivers, and shell. But I'm sure they will be willing to process a refund for you if your device hasn't shipped out yet, otherwise you'll have to return it minus the cost of shipping.
  - noasaservice 5y ago
    I just received the email indicating that they've issued a refund. Hopefully, I'll be included on the early batch, and can contribute to helping make the overall GUI experience better.
jjmellon 5y ago
I received a Pinephone in the latest shipment, about three weeks ago. I also got the convergence dock to be able to attach a monitor, keyboard and mouse. I am extremely motivated to get off Android on my phone, and yet my Pinephone has already been discarded (and I never even put a SIM card in it). There are far too many out-of-the-box bugs and glitches to consider this a usable product. For example, the convergence dock will not display on a monitor. Firefox browser displays too wide for the phone screen, so unusable. A dozen other issues on first day. Even a development board should work better than this, have documentation of the known problems, and have some support mechanism that works. I don't think better/more expensive hardware is the problem. It's software, caused by lack of users, lack of investment, and too many "competing" distributions of Linux.
- tediousdemise 5y ago
  I noticed many of the same issues, but the most concerning one for me was that the modem (behind the upper rear of the phone) gets extremely hot. This has to be terrible for battery life and general longevity.
  - megous 5y ago
    Modem is a heatsink for pretty much all the other heat producing stuff in that phone. It gets hot when whatever else gets hot (PMIC when charging, or SoC when doing soc stuff).
  - 29083011397778 5y ago
    Many people are running an open-source re-implementation of the modem [0]. Neither the proprietary nor the open-source firmware for the modem are perfect, but the latter has the advantage of being clocked down to 100MHz instead of the default 400. This allows much better battery life, as well as giving off far less heat :) [0] https://github.com/Biktorgj/pinephone_modem_sdk https://github.com/Biktorgj/pinephone_modem_sdk
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  In the article we are discussing, the gist of your concerns is addressed. The pinephone (and mobile Linux in general) is extremely immature and only really for hobbyists and people developing for it. You expected a daily driver, right now it is a toy for nerds. Lack of users, investment and too many competing distros were all given in the early days of desktop Linux as reasons why it was simply not worthwhile. The thing is, this phase of development, where some devices exist that only nerds play with for a while, is necessary for there to ever be a mature Linux mobile UX. When you buy one of these devices you're not buying a Linux phone, you're choosing to participate in the process by which a Linux phone becomes a reality. And that process is picking up steam, Ubuntu tried it, many people have run Linux on their android devices with unlocked bootloaders, but pine (and librem and others) have actually created a market environment where things are actually advancing, and in my opinion advancing much faster than desktop Linux did.
DerekBickerton 5y ago
I'd like this as a sort of toy phone to play and tinker with, but wouldn't use it as my daily driver. Always nice to have spare phones hanging around when you're bored to do casual surfing and maybe play a game or two.
rich_sasha 5y ago
Honest question: what is the path to something resembling wider-audience usability (i.e. not a toy project)? Or is that not really a plan? I'd LOVE an open, Linux-based phone. But I also need a phone that does video calls, has a working browser, messenger etc. One that works with at least a good bunch of most common apps. Is that likely to ever happen? Or is this a very interesting project, but really aimed at tinkerers, or people who don't use WhatsApp etc.
- amarsahinovic 5y ago
  I recently backed Astro Slide on Indiegogo[0] and they do say it will be able to boot Linux alongside Android 11. The designer behind Astro Slide is Martin Riddiford who was also the designer of Psion Series 5[1]. [0] https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transformer#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5
  - WhatIsDukkha 5y ago
    Be aware that planetcomputers/astro slide has done a really really bad job of supporting their devices with os updates on the Android side. Even with some linux support (which I haven't checked lately) it was a hard pass to support the slide.
    - MerelyMortal 5y ago
      When I first saw their Indiegogo advertising that it could boot Linux, I tried looking for any pictures/video/evidence of it, and found nothing.
      - TheUnelisted 5y ago
        It does "run", but it's not really running Linux. It's just android with a halium layer running Linux software on top. So when android support ends, which it will seeing how they've not been great at software support, your "Linux" build will also no longer get updates. That's why Mainline Linux is such a big deal, as even if support ends, you'll still be able to get the latest Linux kernel and distributions can continue basically forever supporting the device.
KingMachiavelli 5y ago
> The result of this cooperation is the RK3399S – a RK3399 variant made specifically for the PinePhone Pro. Looks like the RK3399 was used in some chromebooks so hopefully that means it has great upstream Linux support. We can hope it doesn't require any device overlays or weird kernel patches.
- officeplant 5y ago
  The RK3399 is also in the pinebook pro and their higher end SBC offering. Linux support is fairly good especially since the community developed Panfrost drivers for the Mali GPU. I've played around with a chromebook on the same chip and while ChromeOS is of course much more polished the Pinebook Pro is very usable.
Klasiaster 5y ago
For me the main pain point of the current PinePhone is not its performance, it's the driver and firmware issues. Mainline Linux does not work well with the current PinePhone and various patches are not upstreamed or not even written yet to fix the remaining bugs. The cameras don't work with most software, the out-of-tree WiFi driver has stability issues to the point where I rather use LTE or USB, the USB-C firmware is flunky, the modem firmware crashes and needs a lot of workarounds. I hoped they chose components for the PinePhone Pro that work out of the box in terms of firmware and having no downstream Linux patches in the near future, but it seems quite similar to the current PinePhone, only slight improvements. The camera OV5640 is the same (hopefully someone came up with better v4l2 integration since the second camera is different?), the modem EG25-G is the same, no info on the used USB-C chip, but at least there is a better WiFi chip.
- megous 5y ago
  Wifi is different, with mainline driver and regularly updated firmware from cypress (same as Rpi4 wifi chip). Type-C stuff is different, more sane. Main camera is different and selected to already have mainline linux support... I don't think this complaint is fair. Only major thing that's the same is the modem, but that would be quite annoying thing to change, because it would void the hard work of people working on the FOSS Linux stack for EG25-G modem.
  - Klasiaster 5y ago
    Great to hear about the USB-C situation improving and confirmation about better WiFi! Do both cameras already work with common V4L2 applications like Firefox, Cheese etc? Yes, it's sane to keep the EG25-G modem only because there is one guy doing an enormous work with https://github.com/Biktorgj/pinephone_modem_sdk https://github.com/Biktorgj/pinephone_modem_sdk
    - megous 5y ago
      That's not a problem with camera drivers but with firefox and cheese using old APIs. Cameras are v4l2 subdevices, cheese ignores all that. Firefox is the same I guess. It will improve once these big apps switch to libcamera, like Chrome is doing.
dleslie 5y ago
They seem to have fixed my personal gripe with the PinePhone: the camera was terrible.
- TobTobXX 5y ago
  I think most of the limitation might actually lie in software. I have a CE and Megapixels (the camera app I'm using) can store raw files and the raw files and the processed jpg files have a significant gap in quality.
officeplant 5y ago
I've had the Braveheart and later Mobian releases of the Pinephone. Currently have a Pinebook Pro. I'm super excited for the Pinephone Pro to finally get moved to rockchip hardware even if it is just a downclocked 2016 SoC with a few more tweaks for Pine64. The progress they are making is great but still far from daily driving for me personally. I'm just glad the community exists. Even with the bugs and flaws the products may have it is better than nothing.
- pcdoodle 5y ago
  The CPU has a passmark of around 2000 I think. It's clearly quite an upgrade. Also, they have kept backwards hardware compatibility (Pogo Pins, Screen size and Button Placement), that's a huge motivator for a hardware eco system to pop up around it. Can't wait for these tires to warm up!
billyjobob 5y ago
I put my Pinephone back in its box about 6 months ago. Have they fixed the massive lag between touching the screen and it responding yet? That was the main reason it wasn’t usable for me.
- opan 5y ago
  Things are properly 60fps and hardware accelerated now if that's what you mean. postmarketOS is a lot smoother now than it was at first.
- dbeley 5y ago
  In 6 months there have been tons of progress yes. Though I didn't have any issue with the touchscreen 6 months ago so your issue might lies elsewhere. You should try reflashing completely yours with Mobian or another well-supported OS.
Aeolun 5y ago
Forget being able to use it for office. Is it able to take a decent picture or video yet? The performance of those apps on the original pinephone is just hideous. Also, is it just me, or was the original already pretty chunky, and now they’ve added 2mm making it 11mm thick.
nyanpasu64 5y ago
I don't think I'm ordering this at $399. This is over twice the price of the previous PinePhone (admittedly it was borderline useless), and solidly out of "novelty buy" territory. If I wanted a tech toy, I'd order a handheld emulation device with (questionably comfortable) physical buttons and working games/emulators for $50.
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_v7gu 5y ago
> Thus, the device cannot considered a consumer-ready product. Right off the store page. Why are people in the comments expecting to daily drive this? You buy this for the excitement and sense of accomplishment of actually managing to run things.
- int_19h 5y ago
  In fact, it seems to be impossible to pre-order PinePhone Pro as a consumer right now. If you click on the button to pre-order, this is what you get: https://preorder.pine64.org/#/pinephone-pro-dev https://preorder.pine64.org/#/pinephone-pro-dev
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  Perhaps because it is at a similar price point as a Fairphone 3, which you can daily drive.
  - ocdtrekkie 5y ago
    But the Fairphone 3 is running a hostile OS that has already done most of the work, and the PinePhone is still very much an early development platform.
    - CameronNemo 5y ago
      What is hostile about the OS? Early development or not, the rk3399 is a 5 year old SoC.
      - ocdtrekkie 5y ago
        An advertising company has a root-level backdoor to the device?
        CameronNemo 5y ago
        You should be able to run degoogled android on the device.
ericmay 5y ago
I love the desktop-ness of this. I wish Apple enabled this with iPhone. I'd finally be able to have one device.
h0p3 5y ago
Is there anyone here who has more than 3 months of using their [[Pinephone|https://philosopher.life/#Pinephone https://philosopher.life/#Pinephone]] as a daily driver (a solid habit) or who knows someone who does? I'd like to speak with you (or them) because I'm in need of patient guidance. I'm willing to live off a commandline if I'm forced to do that.
julienchastang 5y ago
One thing I will note is how absolutely essential smart phones have become to our daily existence. A colleague's phone recently broke and her life shutdown because she could not 2fa anywhere, including for reporting her time card, etc. As a result, I cannot take any risks when purchasing a phone. I have to have the most reliable option possible.
- capableweb 5y ago
  Agree, it's a bit frightening we're so locked to our phones today. But why leave that comment on this particular submission? The PinePhone is not meant to be a phone you use day-to-day, it's meant for curious developers to hack around on. They are being very upfront about this as well. Maybe in the future this will change.
  - julienchastang 5y ago
    > But why leave that comment on this particular submission? Sorry if I sounded negative. I agree, efforts like these should be lauded.
- Iolaum 5y ago
  No matter how reliable your phone is you can always have an accident, like the phone drops and breaks. A good practice, if possible, is to keep an old(er) phone as a backup device and make sure you have proper/backups migration paths. P.S. As a pinephone owner I don't consider it to be a good options for a backup device. I can only hope that one day the ecosystem gets there.
- Arch-TK 5y ago
  >As a result, I cannot take any risks when purchasing a phone. Or you could make better choices when it comes to how you organise your life so that you do not get in situations where losing your phone completely screws you over. Seriously I don't get why people wilfully get into situations where important things in their life rest on the reliability of their phone. It takes a minimal amount of awareness. And there's no excuse for it. My life is not massively negatively impacted by just refusing to be get chained to a phone.
systemvoltage 5y ago
I want to see a radically different approach to Phone user interfaces. It's just the same cookie cutter trends from Apple and Google.
- TobTobXX 5y ago
  Take a look at sxmo[0]. It is inspired by the niche of tiling window managers and shortcut-driven workflow. I don't know if it is your style, but it qualifies as radiaclly different. [0]: https://sxmo.org/ https://sxmo.org/
  - systemvoltage 5y ago
    This is awesome, thanks for sharing. I am a huge fan of suckless tools and despite of the fact that it is niche, I agree, it is radically different.
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aero-glide2 5y ago
If anyone from India bought a PinePhone previously and is no longer using it, feel free to ship it to me :D
- bluecatswim 5y ago
  Do they ship here? A lot of products shipping from China have trouble getting to India.
luis8 5y ago
I hope that someday a billionaire could donate a few hundred million to a product like this so we can finally have a true Linux phone that can compete with android and Linux. What about finding 1 million nerds like me that would like to donate 100 to a crowdfunding campaign just to the software side of the phone?.
- db579 5y ago
  This exists and is probably the closest thing to trying to do that. Stalled out well short of millions though... https://puri.sm/fund-your-app/ https://puri.sm/fund-your-app/
LeifCarrotson 5y ago
It has a Quectel EG25-G modem. I've not used this particular device, but I have used Quectel GNSS modules, and they've been a surprisingly helpful company to work with. I'm a nobody, and working with Sony, Trimble, or ublox has been an exercise in frustration; you have to convince a salesperson that you're a big company and you can sell thousands of devices in order to just read the datasheet. This one does have some of the documents locked behind an access request, but in my experience, they've been very generous with those grants. The modem supports the following bands: LTE-FDD: B1/B2/B3/B4/B5/B7/B8/B12/B13/B18/B19/B20/B25/B26/B28 LTE-TDD: B38/B39/B40/B41 WCDMA: B1/B2/B4/B5/B6/B8/B19 GSM: B2/B3/B5/B8 which is pretty good. Americans will want 4G bands B2, 4, 5, 12, 13, 14, 17, 20, 25, 26, 29, 30, 41, 66, and 71; this implements 9/15, it's missing bands 14, 17, 29, 30, 66, and 71. Those missing bands are either subsets or supersets of other bands (which could be interesting from a firmware perspective - will a tower with a band 66 antenna give this modem some of the central band 4 subset, or will it try to negotiate a channel that this can't access?), little-used ATT bands, or the 600 MHz T-mobile band 71, which has a wide rollout but poor device support.
- gorgoiler 5y ago
  Is an LTE band the same as a category? (As in the iPhone X was the first cat16 capable device, for example.)
  - opencl 5y ago
    No, the category is a performance specification (higher category is faster), the band is the frequency of the radio signal.
  - deleted 5y ago
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- zeta0134 5y ago
  My biggest question is, if I buy this phone today, with AT&T allow it on their network? My gut says no, they've been brandishing an ugly whitelist around for their big LTE push in February...
barbacoa 5y ago
Question Why are projects like this starting from scratch and not forking from the abandoned Ubuntu phone OS?
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  I suspect Pine ships Manjaro ARM because that distro will apply nearly any patch to the kernel if it makes something work, no matter how hacky or unsustainable the patch is. Right now their kernel has 43 patches, and they are not even organized or annotated well. https://gitlab.manjaro.org/manjaro-arm/packages/core/linux https://gitlab.manjaro.org/manjaro-arm/packages/core/linux
  - TheUnelisted 5y ago
    They ship Manjaro ARM because the people behind PINE64 are manjaro fans and they think that Manjaro has a good business setup. It would have been much nicer to have PostmarketOS shipped stock.
    - RealStickman_ 5y ago
      Afaik Manjaro have their own company, so it's easier to make contracts about software support. Additionally, pine64 have already worked with them on the pinebook and pinebook pro as default distro. Personally, I don't like Manjaro either, but it's easy enough to use a different distro and is probably good enough for most.
    - mulflav 5y ago
      I had wondered why they ended up on Manjaro of all things. Did Pine64 make an explicit statement on the matter?
- opan 5y ago
  I got the UB Ports Community Edition of the PinePhone and found Ubuntu Touch to be a very unpleasant experience and not at all what I signed up for. Luckily postmarketOS was exactly what I wanted and I moved to that within a week or so of owning the device. Ubuntu Touch mounts stuff read-only, pushes you into using webapps, discourages using normal shell stuff like you would on a desktop GNU/Linux system, and has some poorly-working container system for if you wanna use shell stuff. It honestly felt worse than using Termux on an Android phone. With pmOS you can install nvim, firefox, mpv, minetest... Things just work how you'd expect. It's like a single board computer (raspberry pi, etc.) that comes with a screen and other things already attached. You can ssh into it and update your packages all at once. It's really nice. I think it's a stretch to say they're starting from scratch, but if you just mean the UI, Manjaro supports Lomiri (the UI from Ubuntu Touch) while also giving you a more normal OS experience. I'm glad to have some diversity in the desktop environment. Phosh is one of the more polished options, but has the issue of being GNOME-flavored and having all the issues you'd see with regular GNOME. Plasma Mobile feels more Android-like and familiar, but is still rough around the edges. Eventually it will hopefully be as good as Phosh and people can choose whatever they like the look and feel of more.
filmgirlcw 5y ago
This isn’t for me and I don’t ever expect Linux phones to actually take off, but I’m heartened that Pine64 exists and that they are doing this stuff. I have a Pinebook that I got as a toy machine and was very impressed with the execution. And unlike Purism, Pine64 has good customer/developer communication and isn’t making impossible-to-keep promises about deliverability or even capabilities. So not for me, but I’m glad this sort of project exists.
- md8z 5y ago
  I don't have any comments on the Purism customer support because I haven't bought their phone, but as a Pinephone owner it's good to have them around. Purism has been investing a lot more in the software side of things. They work well with upstream. Their new projects are good too, phosh and libhandy came from Purism and are both extremely useful on the Pinephone.
  - GeckoEidechse 5y ago
    Same. I may have bought a PinePhone but it's running mobian with phosh, so all the heavy lifting to get a working phone UI was done by Purism including GTK libraries like libhandy (now libadwaita). I'm ever grateful for their work.
  - filmgirlcw 5y ago
    I’m not trying to discount Purism’s software work, but hearing so many people wait four plus years to have phones delivered or more than a year for a laptop - unable to get refunds, it leaves a bad taste. My own limited experience is that I wound up on their press list and then they sent me an unsolicited request to “invest” in their company (by way of a convertible note…lol, no thanks) and apparently they’ve done this to customers they still owe products to. So it’s cool they contribute to upstream. Still strikes me as a very poorly run business.
    - md8z 5y ago
      That's a shame because I do think they are doing a lot of things right as far as being an open source company goes. The software people who work there don't seem to have anything to do with any questionable financial decisions, but they get associated with that just for being there.
pengaru 5y ago
Disappointed they didn't take this opportunity to make hardware switches more conveniently accessible without removing the rear cover, like the Librem 5. Maybe that's not such a priority when you're fully aware the thing isn't actually usable as a daily driver one might be regularly toggling cell/wifi/camera on.
- megous 5y ago
  Compatibility with all the pinephone back covers and the upcoming keyboard is more important, I guess.
nightski 5y ago
Nokia is re-releasing their 6310 phone this year and honestly I'm more tempted to go down that path at this point. Just a regular, reliable phone. The most painful thing for me at this point will probably be authenticator apps. That said the pine phone looks really cool and I hope they succeed. Mobile Linux is going to be such a large uphill battle without huge investments. But with Google/Apple having compensation packages amounting in the 300k-500k+ per year you'd think there would be room for a competitor in there somewhere. [1] https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/nokia-6310 https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/nokia-6310
- busymom0 5y ago
  Does the Nokia allow you to load mp3 files and play them? That would solve it for me.
  - rjsw 5y ago
    All of the HMD/Nokia feature phones can play mp3 files.
- baby-yoda 5y ago
  is there a roadmap for Nokia feature phones? would take an updated 6310 but would really love an e71/72 successor with modern features.
- slim 5y ago
  6300 has kaios. It should have the authenticator apps in store.
- wott 5y ago
  Unfortunately Nokia is just a brand now, in the hands of a Chinese company which sells rather quickly and cheaply developed products. The phones which are sold under this brand are often buggy and never updated. Some run Series 30+, some run KaiOS, some run Android derivatives. The landscape of dumb/features phones is worse now than it was 10 years ago, which is a pity. For example, jut imagine that it is hard these days to get one which does predictive typing right... or that the cameras are worse than 10 years ago.
timwaagh 5y ago
I'd expect the battery performance to suffer. Android did a lot of things to optimize that vis a vis 'normal' linux.
smokelegend 5y ago
4GB mem.....? Really 4GB? That's it? Would it really have been that bad to at least offer a 8GB, 16GB, or 32GB Memory upgrade. Just feels like a huge let down. I get it the price of electronics(i.e. memory) is more expensive, but this makes it look like a joke in comparison with other "phones". And if it were marketed as a mini computer 4GB of ram isn't saying much. Hexacore processor, 128GB Emmc storage awesome but then I read 4GB of ram and it's like a smack in the face. If this is to be a "flagship" for years to come, I'm really disappointed they went with limited memory. Would I pay $699 instead of $399 for more memory... yeah I would
- cammikebrown 5y ago
  My iPhone 12 (4 GB RAM) is usually faster than my Windows PC (16 GB, Ryzen 2600).
  - nsonha 5y ago
    is that a joke? they run completely different things
  - busymom0 5y ago
    iOS has always handles memory much better than other competitors. Even simple apps I develop for iOS use lesser RAM than the same thing on Android.
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  That is the limit for the rk3399 SoC. I'm surprised they did not wait for the rk3588, or just use a Mediatek Dimensity SoC. If you are based in Europe, you may be interested in the Fairphone 4, which has 6 or 8 GB of RAM.
  - opan 5y ago
    MediaTek is horribly hostile to free software and would be a terrible fit in something like this. MediaTek is the reason the Gemini PDA couldn't do what the PinePhone is doing despite making some similar claims. As for not waiting for a newer Rockchip part, it sounds like they are making it clear this is not a second generation PinePhone, just a more powerful version of what we already had. There will likely be a proper second generation with more major changes later on.
nsonha 5y ago
The spec is so unimpressive. I don't know about other people but I'm not getting a Linux phone for minimalism, I'm getting one that could host all my personal computing need and even replace a desktop.
drewda 5y ago
I recall seeing pictures and notes about a PinePhone with a physical keyboard. Is that actually under development as well? Or is that just someone's experiment?
- bluGill 5y ago
  Yes, someone else posed a link to the full update elsewhere. The keyboard should be shipping soon. Or you can use a USB-c adapter to use any USB keyboard today.
- megous 5y ago
  It was delayed several times because of repeated issues with the quality of the keyboard membrane.
djent 5y ago
It is frustrating to me that despite the blunt verbiage about it being a beta device for software and hardware developers, people even here are griping about it being not ready for everyday use. If a free and open-source mobile operating system is missing software support for a feature you want, please contribute to its development.
- 542458 5y ago
  Part of the problem is that the meaning of “beta” has gotten extremely diluted, and is often used as a CYA rather than an actual indicator of where the software is in the dev cycle. Gmail was in “public beta” for what, five years? Game companies routinely give out “alpha” access that’s really more of a pre-release test and hype tool.
- officeplant 5y ago
  As a owner of many pine64 products I wish there was a clear path to learning how to contribute. My last time coding was C++ class over 16 years ago and I wish I had some sort of idea on how to get started with hobby programming in my spare time as an adult. Edit// Especially since I've jumped on the ARM bandwagon and replaced my desktop with an M1 mac and my laptop with a Pinebook Pro.
  - kop316 5y ago
    Heh. Contributing to open source is....interesting. Pine64 really seems to only do the hardware aspect, everything else is up to others. I guess I would ask: how do you want to contribute? Is there a specific niche you want to help fix? That's how I got involved, I wanted MMS (and later visual voicemail) for my Pinephone.. Or perhaps there's a specific project you like that needs help, or theres a particular bug that annoys you in a FOSS project. Those may be the best ways to get involved to help.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    Mostly it is you just need to dig in and make false starts until you figure it out.
  - 5y ago
ghoward 5y ago
Mini Ask HN: The comments here seem to say that PinePhone and friends are not ready to be daily drivers or even occasional drivers. I think that's fine. However, I do want to support these people and their work. I also need an ARM machine to do tests on (for portability of software and such), so I'm thinking of buying this Pro version. Yes, I'll spend a lot more than I need to, but I really want to support them. So question: are the PinePhone and friends good enough to do development on? And not even normal development; just downloading, building, and testing?
- seba_dos1 5y ago
  I wouldn't compile things on the PinePhone because of its performance, but I do it just fine on the Librem 5, so I imagine PinePhone Pro should be fine too as long as it doesn't excessively thermal throttle (it may be tricky to achieve that though).
- freeopinion 5y ago
  Yes
  - ghoward 5y ago
    Thank you! I have more questions if you don't mind. Is the experience alright? Are there any gotchas that I would need to know?
    - abawany 5y ago
      An anecdote: my eye opener was when I connected mine (3gb/32gb) to a usb-c hub (after seeing Martjin Braam's YT video on it) and was able to then connect it to my 27" hp monitor via hdmi and attach my keyboard/mouse as well: any complaints I had about Pinephone's 'rough edges' up to that point (which tbh, were plenty) disappeared. Generally speaking though, the performance will be pretty sad and the device will get fairly hot during normal use. I am looking forward to getting this new device (Pro) at some point to see the improved performance. The software also keeps improving. When I got it (as a ubports 2gb edition, I later upgraded to the 3gb board), the software was in poor shape so I put it away for a bit. Mobian versions starting last summer really improved on the usability though.
wetpaws 5y ago
>ctrl+f battery > 3000mAh sigh
darkwater 5y ago
Is there any real technical reason that forbid a non Android underdog phone maker like Pine64 to be able to run banking apps as MFA devices? I mean, I don't see any tech issue for this phone to provide a secure enclave chip (I mean, like one in a yubikey) and enroll in a standard WebAuthn workflow. I'm specifically looking at UE banks regulations that forces me to use my Android phone to permit/deny any operation instead of letting me use if I want my yubikey to do the same in the browser
codezero 5y ago
This looks neat and I appreciate how clear they are about expectation setting. With that said it's disappointing to see only Bluetooth 4.1. A lot of modern devices rely on features from 5.0 either for low power usage, or bi-directional high quality audio. It seems fine for a general productivity device, but not for things like video conferencing, or media consumption, which I guess aligns with their inability to support DRM.
segalord 5y ago
Just give us accesible hardware kill switches on the side and I'm sold
- ocdtrekkie 5y ago
  Eh, I disagree. I'd hate to accidentally enable one of the things shut off by those switches. Software controls are likely adequate for day-to-day "I just don't want tracking here or there" events, but the physical hardware switch should give you an "I don't want this happening ever" comfort, which is best done by something more secured behind a cover.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
liendolucas 5y ago
I've recently ordered a PinePhone. At 200 bucks I consider it a donation. I encourage other people to also buy one, even if it is not what you expect. This along the Framework laptops is definitely the way to think about consumer products. I wish appliances were also manufactured open source. Imagine fridges, microwaves, toasters, etc. Things that you can open, understand and learn from and maybe eventually build your own thing if you have the will and time to do so.
- megous 5y ago
  I don't think Pine64 donates part of the profit anymore from the Beta sales. I think this change was announced in one of the previous community updates. I guess you mean "donation" to Pine64 to encourage them to do more fun HW development? :)
second--shift 5y ago
If I buy this phone today, in {6 months, 1 year, 5 years} when Linux is ready for phones, will I be supported in that future still? I'd hate to buy this phone to support a project and then never have access to what I wished the product was.
Program_Install 5y ago
As a concept this is fine, mainstream will never happen with the current set of societal priorities. It’s not flashy enough, it requires some tinkering, and my friends won’t think it’s cool enough. Unfortunate, because at least in my opinion this is the direction we should all be going.
blunte 5y ago
It was a joy to read their website, particularly where they describe "who is it for" and "who is it not for". Clear and honest. No excuses, presumably no lies. I wish all product websites were like this.
SergeAx 5y ago
Got my Pinephone today. Currently the most usable modus operandi is to install openssh server and remote from desktop) Getting so much fun anyway, worth every buck. I wonder. Firefox has Android version with mobile-optimized look and feel. I beleive it shares a lot of code with desktop version. How hard will it be to build that version for Linux graphics desktop?
- seba_dos1 5y ago
  > I beleive it shares a lot of code with desktop version. Except for the engine, it does not. It's a very Android-specific app. It used to be platform-agnostic (early mobile Firefox ran even on Nokia N900), but that has changed many years ago already.
jokoon 5y ago
I will ask this question again: why not use android instead, since android is open source? Building another mobile OS from scratch seems ill advised, or what am I missing? If android is open source, it's not google-dependent. I think there's something that I don't understand, but I bet that the core of android can still be used by any phone manufacturer, so I don't really see why pinephone is making their own OS. Does that mean that android, despite being open source, is hardly usable/customizable by developers, or too complex/bloated?
- jt_thurs_82 5y ago
  There's a couple of big reasons, as I see it: - licensing: some people, myself included, think a FOSS/Libre license such as LGPL/GPL3 is better for people and society. Android is mostly apache, which means it's not resistant at all to a company "stealing" it without giving back to the community. - dependency on google: like it or not, key components of android are completely maintained by google. That means that the future of an open platform is at the whims of one organization. Sure, you could fork, but android is a massive project and a small team could hardly keep up. - "the core of android can still be used by any phone manufacturer": android, and the related IPs, is pretty firmly in the control of the US government. A lot of funding for non-android mobile OSes comes from other governments interested in a platform and support that is unencumbered from five eyes states My personal opinion? Having more platforms is good, as are more compatibility layers. Android is more than just an OS or a platform, it's a set of ABIs for running apps that's used by over a billion people.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
The improved hardware seems great!! Hope to see a PinePhone one day with the best mobile hardware available! Best processor, best GPU, best touch screen, best camera, best sensors... A flagship PinePhone.

496 points by abawany 5y ago

Physically it just looks like every other android phone :( I really wish the Ubuntu phone got funded cos I liked the look of that. Edit: meant ubuntu edge phone not Mozilla.

dbeley 5y ago
That's basically because they outsourced the design to a cheap chinese smartphone manufacturer. It was definitely the right choice as the Pinephone has basically zero hardware issues, unlike the Librem 5 or even the Fairphone.

buildbot 5y ago

I can’t wait for pinephone to succeed- hopefully this more powerful hardware + faster ram will help to address latency issues in the UI. Right now it feels like your brain is literally slowing down when interacting with a normal pinephone compared to an iPhone. Not a fair comparison at all I know.

thepete2 5y ago
Yes. It seems a more powerful cpu was the most requested improvement to the original Pinephone. I'm glad they listened.
Aeolun 5y ago
Isn’t that silly? I could run linux (with GUI) just fine on my Pentium 3. This phone is like 8 times faster just based on clock speed, not to mention memory. How can it not drive a UI without lag?
- Arch-TK 5y ago
  Because your pentium 3 GUI linux had a GUI designed around pentium 3 era hardware. All the linux phone GUIs seem to be designed around the latest in special GUI effects and animations and transparency. For some reason all the people who know how to design UIs for linux are incapable of understanding hardware requirements.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    Check out sxmo.org if you're going for a minimalist UI. But the big feature that's missing on these old-style UI's (while it is in, e.g. Phosh) is smooth animations w/ direct 1-to-1 feedback, which is critical for usability w/ modern capacitive touchscreens and quite hard to achieve without GPU acceleration.
    - Arch-TK 5y ago
      I've used a N900 and I don't see what massive difference there is between its resistive touchscreen and a capacitive touchscreen when it comes to user experience. The N900 achieved good feedback using the vibration motor and extremely basic animations. I don't think you realistically need more than what the Hildon UI gave you when it comes to a good user experience. The Hildon UI targeted much older hardware (albeit with proprietary graphics drivers). It should be possible to replicate the performance of the Hildon UI with the lima drivers if an explicit focus was placed on ensuring that above-all the UI was responsive rather than being pretty.
- TheUnelisted 5y ago
  The problem is that it's not 1-1 with X86, especially in regards to graphics capability (The GPU is really the weak link on the current PinePhone). The GPU for example uses Tile-based rendering, which requires software optimizations to work best... Plus the GPU is just plain slow. It's a first generation ARM Mali graphics core intended for OpenGL ES 2.0 afterall.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    I’m sorry. I’m not quite sure what everything you said meant, but my P3 didn’t have any GPU at all, so it seems like it shouldn’t matter. I find it hard to believe a ARM CPU would need significantly more cycles to perform the same operations.
- buildbot 5y ago
  It’s certainly interesting that input latency seems to have taken a back seat in almost all modern systems. I have a touchscreen windows NT computer with PS2 ports, both the keyboard and touchscreen have noticeably less latency than any other device I have. However, it’s really slow when actually opening a program!
  - SahAssar 5y ago
    PS2 has always had much lower latency. Also IIRC the old windows prioritized input handling over pretty much everything else, so it makes sense that even when it is taking a minute to open a website the mouse handling still feels smooth.
- swiley 5y ago
  Lightweight X11 Desktops like Fluxbox or FVWM work pretty well on the Pinephone, I'm posting from Fluxbox right now infact. Also the main bottleneck is really the slow RAM and not the CPU.

kop316 5y ago

If you want to read more about it, I would recommend reading Pine64's Monthly update: https://www.pine64.org/2021/10/15/october-update-introducing-the-pinephone-pro/ https://www.pine64.org/2021/10/15/october-update-introducing...

nottaylorswift 5y ago

$400? Absolutely never.

justinclift 5y ago

You've got to be frigging kidding. Literally just received a PinePhone earlier this week. And now it's obsolete? Not happy at all. :(

rjsw 5y ago
I don't consider the original PinePhone obsolete, I'm still planning to get one at some point even after the announcement today. Suspect you can sell your one on to someone if you want.
megous 5y ago
Pinephone is supposed to be manufactured for 5 years since the initial release. Hardly obsolete.

mcdonje 5y ago

I appreciate the blurbs about who it is and isn't for. I'm currently in the latter group, but I commend the project. Now that there's a good hardware target, hopefully the software will catch up.

29083011397778 5y ago
I would argue there was already a reasonably hardware target - the biggest thing was (for me) the modem. It was power-hungry, dropped signal, and for some people, didn't work with VoLTE. The Pro uses the same modem, meaning hardware support has been improving for the last two years :)

CubsFan1060 5y ago

"If you depend on proprietary mainstream mobile messenger applications, banking applications, use loyalty or travel apps, consume DRM media, or play mobile video games on your fruit or Android smartphone, then the PinePhone Pro is likely not for you." Yikes. I appreciate they are up front about it, but that eliminates literally everyone I know.

ryukafalz 5y ago
Then literally everyone you know is dependent on either Apple or Google.
- CubsFan1060 5y ago
  Probably. But I don't think those requirements are unreasonable. It feels like it largely boils down to "I buy a smartphone to accomplish certain tasks easily". If you eliminate many of those tasks, is it a useful device for those people anymore?
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
    I don’t think you’re incorrect in making your point here, yet your framing is a bit unreasonable. Pine phone isn’t supposed to be the equivalent to a modern smartphone. It’s a small project that has an entirely new platform with no major corporate backing. What you’re asking of it isn’t realistic until it has significant enough time and traction to fully mature.
    - CubsFan1060 5y ago
      That's probably a very fair point. I wonder what the minimum modern requirements would be for a viable "mainstream" phone. Common messaging apps (SMS, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, Slack). Social media apps (Facebook, Instagram, TikTok). email (Though an average stock email app is probably sufficient). Google Apps (gmail, google maps, etc..). Navigation (google maps is sufficient for most) Probably some set of games. I suspect the real viable option is being able to run Android apps natively without any special configuration.

tromp 5y ago

A display resolution of 1440x720 feels a bit limited, especially for something labeled "Pro". Wonder why they didn't go for 2160x1080...

kop316 5y ago
https://www.pine64.org/2021/10/15/october-update-introducing-the-pinephone-pro/ https://www.pine64.org/2021/10/15/october-update-introducing... They go into it there: "The decision to maintain the original PinePhone’s screen resolution of 1440×720 was made early on; higher resolution panels consume more power and increase SoC’s load, resulting in shorter battery life and higher average thermals. A few extra pixels aren’t worth it."
MartijnBraam 5y ago
The resolution is absolutely fine.

belval 5y ago

I curious about the opinion of HN on the absence of 1080p (it's still 720p). Specially this part of the blog post: > The decision to maintain the original PinePhone’s screen resolution of 1440×720 was made early on; higher resolution panels consume more power and increase SoC’s load, resulting in shorter battery life and higher average thermals. A few extra pixels aren’t worth it.[1] While I understand the point they are making, the PinePhone's screen is almost 6" and pixel density is probably the first thing that I notice on a new smartphone. It just seems very low? For context I am fully aware of the project, its goals and that it's not trying to take over the global smartphone market, but for some reason 1080p feels like the baseline in 2021. [1] https://pine64.org/2021/10/15/october-update-introducing-the-pinephone-pro/ https://pine64.org/2021/10/15/october-update-introducing-the...

Brave-Steak 5y ago
I think there are far more important aspects to a phone than pixel density. If somebody told me I could get better battery life and performance with lower pixel density, it would be a no-brainer for me to say yes.
jchw 5y ago
I own an original PinePhone. Most people are aware of its issues by now, but I always found the screen (and by and large, the general build quality) to be oddly sufficient. It isn’t overkill, but I don’t think it is terribly limiting either. I suppose a higher DPI screen would be a nice luxury, but it can definitely wait for the SoC to catch up.
noasaservice 5y ago
> While I understand the point they are making, the PinePhone's screen is almost 6" and pixel density is probably the first thing that I notice on a new smartphone. It just seems very low? With convergence, its HDMI out.
- belval 5y ago
  Didn't think of that one, that would make sense.

noasaservice 5y ago

Damn, and I just put in an order for the PinePhone 1.5 days ago. Just emailed them to see if they can make this work, and upgrade appropriate for the difference.

TheUnelisted 5y ago
Well, the "Explorer Edition" units haven't gone on sale yet. Right now only developer units are on sale, and those are strictly for developers who will contribute to the kernel, firmware, drivers, and shell. But I'm sure they will be willing to process a refund for you if your device hasn't shipped out yet, otherwise you'll have to return it minus the cost of shipping.
- noasaservice 5y ago
  I just received the email indicating that they've issued a refund. Hopefully, I'll be included on the early batch, and can contribute to helping make the overall GUI experience better.

jjmellon 5y ago

I received a Pinephone in the latest shipment, about three weeks ago. I also got the convergence dock to be able to attach a monitor, keyboard and mouse. I am extremely motivated to get off Android on my phone, and yet my Pinephone has already been discarded (and I never even put a SIM card in it). There are far too many out-of-the-box bugs and glitches to consider this a usable product. For example, the convergence dock will not display on a monitor. Firefox browser displays too wide for the phone screen, so unusable. A dozen other issues on first day. Even a development board should work better than this, have documentation of the known problems, and have some support mechanism that works. I don't think better/more expensive hardware is the problem. It's software, caused by lack of users, lack of investment, and too many "competing" distributions of Linux.

tediousdemise 5y ago
I noticed many of the same issues, but the most concerning one for me was that the modem (behind the upper rear of the phone) gets extremely hot. This has to be terrible for battery life and general longevity.
- megous 5y ago
  Modem is a heatsink for pretty much all the other heat producing stuff in that phone. It gets hot when whatever else gets hot (PMIC when charging, or SoC when doing soc stuff).
- 29083011397778 5y ago
  Many people are running an open-source re-implementation of the modem [0]. Neither the proprietary nor the open-source firmware for the modem are perfect, but the latter has the advantage of being clocked down to 100MHz instead of the default 400. This allows much better battery life, as well as giving off far less heat :) [0] https://github.com/Biktorgj/pinephone_modem_sdk https://github.com/Biktorgj/pinephone_modem_sdk
betwixthewires 5y ago
In the article we are discussing, the gist of your concerns is addressed. The pinephone (and mobile Linux in general) is extremely immature and only really for hobbyists and people developing for it. You expected a daily driver, right now it is a toy for nerds. Lack of users, investment and too many competing distros were all given in the early days of desktop Linux as reasons why it was simply not worthwhile. The thing is, this phase of development, where some devices exist that only nerds play with for a while, is necessary for there to ever be a mature Linux mobile UX. When you buy one of these devices you're not buying a Linux phone, you're choosing to participate in the process by which a Linux phone becomes a reality. And that process is picking up steam, Ubuntu tried it, many people have run Linux on their android devices with unlocked bootloaders, but pine (and librem and others) have actually created a market environment where things are actually advancing, and in my opinion advancing much faster than desktop Linux did.

DerekBickerton 5y ago

I'd like this as a sort of toy phone to play and tinker with, but wouldn't use it as my daily driver. Always nice to have spare phones hanging around when you're bored to do casual surfing and maybe play a game or two.

rich_sasha 5y ago

Honest question: what is the path to something resembling wider-audience usability (i.e. not a toy project)? Or is that not really a plan? I'd LOVE an open, Linux-based phone. But I also need a phone that does video calls, has a working browser, messenger etc. One that works with at least a good bunch of most common apps. Is that likely to ever happen? Or is this a very interesting project, but really aimed at tinkerers, or people who don't use WhatsApp etc.

amarsahinovic 5y ago
I recently backed Astro Slide on Indiegogo[0] and they do say it will be able to boot Linux alongside Android 11. The designer behind Astro Slide is Martin Riddiford who was also the designer of Psion Series 5[1]. [0] https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transformer#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5
- WhatIsDukkha 5y ago
  Be aware that planetcomputers/astro slide has done a really really bad job of supporting their devices with os updates on the Android side. Even with some linux support (which I haven't checked lately) it was a hard pass to support the slide.
  - MerelyMortal 5y ago
    When I first saw their Indiegogo advertising that it could boot Linux, I tried looking for any pictures/video/evidence of it, and found nothing.
    - TheUnelisted 5y ago
      It does "run", but it's not really running Linux. It's just android with a halium layer running Linux software on top. So when android support ends, which it will seeing how they've not been great at software support, your "Linux" build will also no longer get updates. That's why Mainline Linux is such a big deal, as even if support ends, you'll still be able to get the latest Linux kernel and distributions can continue basically forever supporting the device.

KingMachiavelli 5y ago

> The result of this cooperation is the RK3399S – a RK3399 variant made specifically for the PinePhone Pro. Looks like the RK3399 was used in some chromebooks so hopefully that means it has great upstream Linux support. We can hope it doesn't require any device overlays or weird kernel patches.

officeplant 5y ago
The RK3399 is also in the pinebook pro and their higher end SBC offering. Linux support is fairly good especially since the community developed Panfrost drivers for the Mali GPU. I've played around with a chromebook on the same chip and while ChromeOS is of course much more polished the Pinebook Pro is very usable.

Klasiaster 5y ago

For me the main pain point of the current PinePhone is not its performance, it's the driver and firmware issues. Mainline Linux does not work well with the current PinePhone and various patches are not upstreamed or not even written yet to fix the remaining bugs. The cameras don't work with most software, the out-of-tree WiFi driver has stability issues to the point where I rather use LTE or USB, the USB-C firmware is flunky, the modem firmware crashes and needs a lot of workarounds. I hoped they chose components for the PinePhone Pro that work out of the box in terms of firmware and having no downstream Linux patches in the near future, but it seems quite similar to the current PinePhone, only slight improvements. The camera OV5640 is the same (hopefully someone came up with better v4l2 integration since the second camera is different?), the modem EG25-G is the same, no info on the used USB-C chip, but at least there is a better WiFi chip.

megous 5y ago
Wifi is different, with mainline driver and regularly updated firmware from cypress (same as Rpi4 wifi chip). Type-C stuff is different, more sane. Main camera is different and selected to already have mainline linux support... I don't think this complaint is fair. Only major thing that's the same is the modem, but that would be quite annoying thing to change, because it would void the hard work of people working on the FOSS Linux stack for EG25-G modem.
- Klasiaster 5y ago
  Great to hear about the USB-C situation improving and confirmation about better WiFi! Do both cameras already work with common V4L2 applications like Firefox, Cheese etc? Yes, it's sane to keep the EG25-G modem only because there is one guy doing an enormous work with https://github.com/Biktorgj/pinephone_modem_sdk https://github.com/Biktorgj/pinephone_modem_sdk
  - megous 5y ago
    That's not a problem with camera drivers but with firefox and cheese using old APIs. Cameras are v4l2 subdevices, cheese ignores all that. Firefox is the same I guess. It will improve once these big apps switch to libcamera, like Chrome is doing.

dleslie 5y ago

They seem to have fixed my personal gripe with the PinePhone: the camera was terrible.

TobTobXX 5y ago
I think most of the limitation might actually lie in software. I have a CE and Megapixels (the camera app I'm using) can store raw files and the raw files and the processed jpg files have a significant gap in quality.

officeplant 5y ago

I've had the Braveheart and later Mobian releases of the Pinephone. Currently have a Pinebook Pro. I'm super excited for the Pinephone Pro to finally get moved to rockchip hardware even if it is just a downclocked 2016 SoC with a few more tweaks for Pine64. The progress they are making is great but still far from daily driving for me personally. I'm just glad the community exists. Even with the bugs and flaws the products may have it is better than nothing.

pcdoodle 5y ago
The CPU has a passmark of around 2000 I think. It's clearly quite an upgrade. Also, they have kept backwards hardware compatibility (Pogo Pins, Screen size and Button Placement), that's a huge motivator for a hardware eco system to pop up around it. Can't wait for these tires to warm up!

billyjobob 5y ago

I put my Pinephone back in its box about 6 months ago. Have they fixed the massive lag between touching the screen and it responding yet? That was the main reason it wasn’t usable for me.

opan 5y ago
Things are properly 60fps and hardware accelerated now if that's what you mean. postmarketOS is a lot smoother now than it was at first.
dbeley 5y ago
In 6 months there have been tons of progress yes. Though I didn't have any issue with the touchscreen 6 months ago so your issue might lies elsewhere. You should try reflashing completely yours with Mobian or another well-supported OS.

Aeolun 5y ago

Forget being able to use it for office. Is it able to take a decent picture or video yet? The performance of those apps on the original pinephone is just hideous. Also, is it just me, or was the original already pretty chunky, and now they’ve added 2mm making it 11mm thick.

nyanpasu64 5y ago

I don't think I'm ordering this at $399. This is over twice the price of the previous PinePhone (admittedly it was borderline useless), and solidly out of "novelty buy" territory. If I wanted a tech toy, I'd order a handheld emulation device with (questionably comfortable) physical buttons and working games/emulators for $50.

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_v7gu 5y ago

> Thus, the device cannot considered a consumer-ready product. Right off the store page. Why are people in the comments expecting to daily drive this? You buy this for the excitement and sense of accomplishment of actually managing to run things.

int_19h 5y ago
In fact, it seems to be impossible to pre-order PinePhone Pro as a consumer right now. If you click on the button to pre-order, this is what you get: https://preorder.pine64.org/#/pinephone-pro-dev https://preorder.pine64.org/#/pinephone-pro-dev
CameronNemo 5y ago
Perhaps because it is at a similar price point as a Fairphone 3, which you can daily drive.
- ocdtrekkie 5y ago
  But the Fairphone 3 is running a hostile OS that has already done most of the work, and the PinePhone is still very much an early development platform.
  - CameronNemo 5y ago
    What is hostile about the OS? Early development or not, the rk3399 is a 5 year old SoC.
    - ocdtrekkie 5y ago
      An advertising company has a root-level backdoor to the device?
      - CameronNemo 5y ago
        You should be able to run degoogled android on the device.

ericmay 5y ago

I love the desktop-ness of this. I wish Apple enabled this with iPhone. I'd finally be able to have one device.

h0p3 5y ago

Is there anyone here who has more than 3 months of using their [[Pinephone|https://philosopher.life/#Pinephone https://philosopher.life/#Pinephone]] as a daily driver (a solid habit) or who knows someone who does? I'd like to speak with you (or them) because I'm in need of patient guidance. I'm willing to live off a commandline if I'm forced to do that.

julienchastang 5y ago

One thing I will note is how absolutely essential smart phones have become to our daily existence. A colleague's phone recently broke and her life shutdown because she could not 2fa anywhere, including for reporting her time card, etc. As a result, I cannot take any risks when purchasing a phone. I have to have the most reliable option possible.

capableweb 5y ago
Agree, it's a bit frightening we're so locked to our phones today. But why leave that comment on this particular submission? The PinePhone is not meant to be a phone you use day-to-day, it's meant for curious developers to hack around on. They are being very upfront about this as well. Maybe in the future this will change.
- julienchastang 5y ago
  > But why leave that comment on this particular submission? Sorry if I sounded negative. I agree, efforts like these should be lauded.
Iolaum 5y ago
No matter how reliable your phone is you can always have an accident, like the phone drops and breaks. A good practice, if possible, is to keep an old(er) phone as a backup device and make sure you have proper/backups migration paths. P.S. As a pinephone owner I don't consider it to be a good options for a backup device. I can only hope that one day the ecosystem gets there.
Arch-TK 5y ago
>As a result, I cannot take any risks when purchasing a phone. Or you could make better choices when it comes to how you organise your life so that you do not get in situations where losing your phone completely screws you over. Seriously I don't get why people wilfully get into situations where important things in their life rest on the reliability of their phone. It takes a minimal amount of awareness. And there's no excuse for it. My life is not massively negatively impacted by just refusing to be get chained to a phone.

systemvoltage 5y ago

I want to see a radically different approach to Phone user interfaces. It's just the same cookie cutter trends from Apple and Google.

TobTobXX 5y ago
Take a look at sxmo[0]. It is inspired by the niche of tiling window managers and shortcut-driven workflow. I don't know if it is your style, but it qualifies as radiaclly different. [0]: https://sxmo.org/ https://sxmo.org/
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  This is awesome, thanks for sharing. I am a huge fan of suckless tools and despite of the fact that it is niche, I agree, it is radically different.

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aero-glide2 5y ago

If anyone from India bought a PinePhone previously and is no longer using it, feel free to ship it to me :D

bluecatswim 5y ago
Do they ship here? A lot of products shipping from China have trouble getting to India.

luis8 5y ago

I hope that someday a billionaire could donate a few hundred million to a product like this so we can finally have a true Linux phone that can compete with android and Linux. What about finding 1 million nerds like me that would like to donate 100 to a crowdfunding campaign just to the software side of the phone?.

db579 5y ago
This exists and is probably the closest thing to trying to do that. Stalled out well short of millions though... https://puri.sm/fund-your-app/ https://puri.sm/fund-your-app/

LeifCarrotson 5y ago

It has a Quectel EG25-G modem. I've not used this particular device, but I have used Quectel GNSS modules, and they've been a surprisingly helpful company to work with. I'm a nobody, and working with Sony, Trimble, or ublox has been an exercise in frustration; you have to convince a salesperson that you're a big company and you can sell thousands of devices in order to just read the datasheet. This one does have some of the documents locked behind an access request, but in my experience, they've been very generous with those grants. The modem supports the following bands: LTE-FDD: B1/B2/B3/B4/B5/B7/B8/B12/B13/B18/B19/B20/B25/B26/B28 LTE-TDD: B38/B39/B40/B41 WCDMA: B1/B2/B4/B5/B6/B8/B19 GSM: B2/B3/B5/B8 which is pretty good. Americans will want 4G bands B2, 4, 5, 12, 13, 14, 17, 20, 25, 26, 29, 30, 41, 66, and 71; this implements 9/15, it's missing bands 14, 17, 29, 30, 66, and 71. Those missing bands are either subsets or supersets of other bands (which could be interesting from a firmware perspective - will a tower with a band 66 antenna give this modem some of the central band 4 subset, or will it try to negotiate a channel that this can't access?), little-used ATT bands, or the 600 MHz T-mobile band 71, which has a wide rollout but poor device support.

gorgoiler 5y ago
Is an LTE band the same as a category? (As in the iPhone X was the first cat16 capable device, for example.)
- opencl 5y ago
  No, the category is a performance specification (higher category is faster), the band is the frequency of the radio signal.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
zeta0134 5y ago
My biggest question is, if I buy this phone today, with AT&T allow it on their network? My gut says no, they've been brandishing an ugly whitelist around for their big LTE push in February...

barbacoa 5y ago

Question Why are projects like this starting from scratch and not forking from the abandoned Ubuntu phone OS?

CameronNemo 5y ago
I suspect Pine ships Manjaro ARM because that distro will apply nearly any patch to the kernel if it makes something work, no matter how hacky or unsustainable the patch is. Right now their kernel has 43 patches, and they are not even organized or annotated well. https://gitlab.manjaro.org/manjaro-arm/packages/core/linux https://gitlab.manjaro.org/manjaro-arm/packages/core/linux
- TheUnelisted 5y ago
  They ship Manjaro ARM because the people behind PINE64 are manjaro fans and they think that Manjaro has a good business setup. It would have been much nicer to have PostmarketOS shipped stock.
  - RealStickman_ 5y ago
    Afaik Manjaro have their own company, so it's easier to make contracts about software support. Additionally, pine64 have already worked with them on the pinebook and pinebook pro as default distro. Personally, I don't like Manjaro either, but it's easy enough to use a different distro and is probably good enough for most.
  - mulflav 5y ago
    I had wondered why they ended up on Manjaro of all things. Did Pine64 make an explicit statement on the matter?
opan 5y ago
I got the UB Ports Community Edition of the PinePhone and found Ubuntu Touch to be a very unpleasant experience and not at all what I signed up for. Luckily postmarketOS was exactly what I wanted and I moved to that within a week or so of owning the device. Ubuntu Touch mounts stuff read-only, pushes you into using webapps, discourages using normal shell stuff like you would on a desktop GNU/Linux system, and has some poorly-working container system for if you wanna use shell stuff. It honestly felt worse than using Termux on an Android phone. With pmOS you can install nvim, firefox, mpv, minetest... Things just work how you'd expect. It's like a single board computer (raspberry pi, etc.) that comes with a screen and other things already attached. You can ssh into it and update your packages all at once. It's really nice. I think it's a stretch to say they're starting from scratch, but if you just mean the UI, Manjaro supports Lomiri (the UI from Ubuntu Touch) while also giving you a more normal OS experience. I'm glad to have some diversity in the desktop environment. Phosh is one of the more polished options, but has the issue of being GNOME-flavored and having all the issues you'd see with regular GNOME. Plasma Mobile feels more Android-like and familiar, but is still rough around the edges. Eventually it will hopefully be as good as Phosh and people can choose whatever they like the look and feel of more.

filmgirlcw 5y ago

This isn’t for me and I don’t ever expect Linux phones to actually take off, but I’m heartened that Pine64 exists and that they are doing this stuff. I have a Pinebook that I got as a toy machine and was very impressed with the execution. And unlike Purism, Pine64 has good customer/developer communication and isn’t making impossible-to-keep promises about deliverability or even capabilities. So not for me, but I’m glad this sort of project exists.

md8z 5y ago
I don't have any comments on the Purism customer support because I haven't bought their phone, but as a Pinephone owner it's good to have them around. Purism has been investing a lot more in the software side of things. They work well with upstream. Their new projects are good too, phosh and libhandy came from Purism and are both extremely useful on the Pinephone.
- GeckoEidechse 5y ago
  Same. I may have bought a PinePhone but it's running mobian with phosh, so all the heavy lifting to get a working phone UI was done by Purism including GTK libraries like libhandy (now libadwaita). I'm ever grateful for their work.
- filmgirlcw 5y ago
  I’m not trying to discount Purism’s software work, but hearing so many people wait four plus years to have phones delivered or more than a year for a laptop - unable to get refunds, it leaves a bad taste. My own limited experience is that I wound up on their press list and then they sent me an unsolicited request to “invest” in their company (by way of a convertible note…lol, no thanks) and apparently they’ve done this to customers they still owe products to. So it’s cool they contribute to upstream. Still strikes me as a very poorly run business.
  - md8z 5y ago
    That's a shame because I do think they are doing a lot of things right as far as being an open source company goes. The software people who work there don't seem to have anything to do with any questionable financial decisions, but they get associated with that just for being there.

pengaru 5y ago

Disappointed they didn't take this opportunity to make hardware switches more conveniently accessible without removing the rear cover, like the Librem 5. Maybe that's not such a priority when you're fully aware the thing isn't actually usable as a daily driver one might be regularly toggling cell/wifi/camera on.

megous 5y ago
Compatibility with all the pinephone back covers and the upcoming keyboard is more important, I guess.

nightski 5y ago

Nokia is re-releasing their 6310 phone this year and honestly I'm more tempted to go down that path at this point. Just a regular, reliable phone. The most painful thing for me at this point will probably be authenticator apps. That said the pine phone looks really cool and I hope they succeed. Mobile Linux is going to be such a large uphill battle without huge investments. But with Google/Apple having compensation packages amounting in the 300k-500k+ per year you'd think there would be room for a competitor in there somewhere. [1] https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/nokia-6310 https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/nokia-6310

busymom0 5y ago
Does the Nokia allow you to load mp3 files and play them? That would solve it for me.
- rjsw 5y ago
  All of the HMD/Nokia feature phones can play mp3 files.
baby-yoda 5y ago
is there a roadmap for Nokia feature phones? would take an updated 6310 but would really love an e71/72 successor with modern features.
slim 5y ago
6300 has kaios. It should have the authenticator apps in store.
wott 5y ago
Unfortunately Nokia is just a brand now, in the hands of a Chinese company which sells rather quickly and cheaply developed products. The phones which are sold under this brand are often buggy and never updated. Some run Series 30+, some run KaiOS, some run Android derivatives. The landscape of dumb/features phones is worse now than it was 10 years ago, which is a pity. For example, jut imagine that it is hard these days to get one which does predictive typing right... or that the cameras are worse than 10 years ago.

timwaagh 5y ago

I'd expect the battery performance to suffer. Android did a lot of things to optimize that vis a vis 'normal' linux.

smokelegend 5y ago

4GB mem.....? Really 4GB? That's it? Would it really have been that bad to at least offer a 8GB, 16GB, or 32GB Memory upgrade. Just feels like a huge let down. I get it the price of electronics(i.e. memory) is more expensive, but this makes it look like a joke in comparison with other "phones". And if it were marketed as a mini computer 4GB of ram isn't saying much. Hexacore processor, 128GB Emmc storage awesome but then I read 4GB of ram and it's like a smack in the face. If this is to be a "flagship" for years to come, I'm really disappointed they went with limited memory. Would I pay $699 instead of $399 for more memory... yeah I would

cammikebrown 5y ago
My iPhone 12 (4 GB RAM) is usually faster than my Windows PC (16 GB, Ryzen 2600).
- nsonha 5y ago
  is that a joke? they run completely different things
- busymom0 5y ago
  iOS has always handles memory much better than other competitors. Even simple apps I develop for iOS use lesser RAM than the same thing on Android.
CameronNemo 5y ago
That is the limit for the rk3399 SoC. I'm surprised they did not wait for the rk3588, or just use a Mediatek Dimensity SoC. If you are based in Europe, you may be interested in the Fairphone 4, which has 6 or 8 GB of RAM.
- opan 5y ago
  MediaTek is horribly hostile to free software and would be a terrible fit in something like this. MediaTek is the reason the Gemini PDA couldn't do what the PinePhone is doing despite making some similar claims. As for not waiting for a newer Rockchip part, it sounds like they are making it clear this is not a second generation PinePhone, just a more powerful version of what we already had. There will likely be a proper second generation with more major changes later on.

nsonha 5y ago

The spec is so unimpressive. I don't know about other people but I'm not getting a Linux phone for minimalism, I'm getting one that could host all my personal computing need and even replace a desktop.

drewda 5y ago

I recall seeing pictures and notes about a PinePhone with a physical keyboard. Is that actually under development as well? Or is that just someone's experiment?

bluGill 5y ago
Yes, someone else posed a link to the full update elsewhere. The keyboard should be shipping soon. Or you can use a USB-c adapter to use any USB keyboard today.
megous 5y ago
It was delayed several times because of repeated issues with the quality of the keyboard membrane.

djent 5y ago

It is frustrating to me that despite the blunt verbiage about it being a beta device for software and hardware developers, people even here are griping about it being not ready for everyday use. If a free and open-source mobile operating system is missing software support for a feature you want, please contribute to its development.

542458 5y ago
Part of the problem is that the meaning of “beta” has gotten extremely diluted, and is often used as a CYA rather than an actual indicator of where the software is in the dev cycle. Gmail was in “public beta” for what, five years? Game companies routinely give out “alpha” access that’s really more of a pre-release test and hype tool.
officeplant 5y ago
As a owner of many pine64 products I wish there was a clear path to learning how to contribute. My last time coding was C++ class over 16 years ago and I wish I had some sort of idea on how to get started with hobby programming in my spare time as an adult. Edit// Especially since I've jumped on the ARM bandwagon and replaced my desktop with an M1 mac and my laptop with a Pinebook Pro.
- kop316 5y ago
  Heh. Contributing to open source is....interesting. Pine64 really seems to only do the hardware aspect, everything else is up to others. I guess I would ask: how do you want to contribute? Is there a specific niche you want to help fix? That's how I got involved, I wanted MMS (and later visual voicemail) for my Pinephone.. Or perhaps there's a specific project you like that needs help, or theres a particular bug that annoys you in a FOSS project. Those may be the best ways to get involved to help.
- bluGill 5y ago
  Mostly it is you just need to dig in and make false starts until you figure it out.
- 5y ago

ghoward 5y ago

Mini Ask HN: The comments here seem to say that PinePhone and friends are not ready to be daily drivers or even occasional drivers. I think that's fine. However, I do want to support these people and their work. I also need an ARM machine to do tests on (for portability of software and such), so I'm thinking of buying this Pro version. Yes, I'll spend a lot more than I need to, but I really want to support them. So question: are the PinePhone and friends good enough to do development on? And not even normal development; just downloading, building, and testing?

seba_dos1 5y ago
I wouldn't compile things on the PinePhone because of its performance, but I do it just fine on the Librem 5, so I imagine PinePhone Pro should be fine too as long as it doesn't excessively thermal throttle (it may be tricky to achieve that though).
freeopinion 5y ago
Yes
- ghoward 5y ago
  Thank you! I have more questions if you don't mind. Is the experience alright? Are there any gotchas that I would need to know?
  - abawany 5y ago
    An anecdote: my eye opener was when I connected mine (3gb/32gb) to a usb-c hub (after seeing Martjin Braam's YT video on it) and was able to then connect it to my 27" hp monitor via hdmi and attach my keyboard/mouse as well: any complaints I had about Pinephone's 'rough edges' up to that point (which tbh, were plenty) disappeared. Generally speaking though, the performance will be pretty sad and the device will get fairly hot during normal use. I am looking forward to getting this new device (Pro) at some point to see the improved performance. The software also keeps improving. When I got it (as a ubports 2gb edition, I later upgraded to the 3gb board), the software was in poor shape so I put it away for a bit. Mobian versions starting last summer really improved on the usability though.

wetpaws 5y ago

>ctrl+f battery > 3000mAh sigh

darkwater 5y ago

Is there any real technical reason that forbid a non Android underdog phone maker like Pine64 to be able to run banking apps as MFA devices? I mean, I don't see any tech issue for this phone to provide a secure enclave chip (I mean, like one in a yubikey) and enroll in a standard WebAuthn workflow. I'm specifically looking at UE banks regulations that forces me to use my Android phone to permit/deny any operation instead of letting me use if I want my yubikey to do the same in the browser

codezero 5y ago

This looks neat and I appreciate how clear they are about expectation setting. With that said it's disappointing to see only Bluetooth 4.1. A lot of modern devices rely on features from 5.0 either for low power usage, or bi-directional high quality audio. It seems fine for a general productivity device, but not for things like video conferencing, or media consumption, which I guess aligns with their inability to support DRM.

segalord 5y ago

Just give us accesible hardware kill switches on the side and I'm sold

ocdtrekkie 5y ago
Eh, I disagree. I'd hate to accidentally enable one of the things shut off by those switches. Software controls are likely adequate for day-to-day "I just don't want tracking here or there" events, but the physical hardware switch should give you an "I don't want this happening ever" comfort, which is best done by something more secured behind a cover.

deleted 5y ago

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liendolucas 5y ago

I've recently ordered a PinePhone. At 200 bucks I consider it a donation. I encourage other people to also buy one, even if it is not what you expect. This along the Framework laptops is definitely the way to think about consumer products. I wish appliances were also manufactured open source. Imagine fridges, microwaves, toasters, etc. Things that you can open, understand and learn from and maybe eventually build your own thing if you have the will and time to do so.

megous 5y ago
I don't think Pine64 donates part of the profit anymore from the Beta sales. I think this change was announced in one of the previous community updates. I guess you mean "donation" to Pine64 to encourage them to do more fun HW development? :)

second--shift 5y ago

If I buy this phone today, in {6 months, 1 year, 5 years} when Linux is ready for phones, will I be supported in that future still? I'd hate to buy this phone to support a project and then never have access to what I wished the product was.

Program_Install 5y ago

As a concept this is fine, mainstream will never happen with the current set of societal priorities. It’s not flashy enough, it requires some tinkering, and my friends won’t think it’s cool enough. Unfortunate, because at least in my opinion this is the direction we should all be going.

blunte 5y ago

It was a joy to read their website, particularly where they describe "who is it for" and "who is it not for". Clear and honest. No excuses, presumably no lies. I wish all product websites were like this.

SergeAx 5y ago

Got my Pinephone today. Currently the most usable modus operandi is to install openssh server and remote from desktop) Getting so much fun anyway, worth every buck. I wonder. Firefox has Android version with mobile-optimized look and feel. I beleive it shares a lot of code with desktop version. How hard will it be to build that version for Linux graphics desktop?

seba_dos1 5y ago
> I beleive it shares a lot of code with desktop version. Except for the engine, it does not. It's a very Android-specific app. It used to be platform-agnostic (early mobile Firefox ran even on Nokia N900), but that has changed many years ago already.

jokoon 5y ago

I will ask this question again: why not use android instead, since android is open source? Building another mobile OS from scratch seems ill advised, or what am I missing? If android is open source, it's not google-dependent. I think there's something that I don't understand, but I bet that the core of android can still be used by any phone manufacturer, so I don't really see why pinephone is making their own OS. Does that mean that android, despite being open source, is hardly usable/customizable by developers, or too complex/bloated?

jt_thurs_82 5y ago
There's a couple of big reasons, as I see it: - licensing: some people, myself included, think a FOSS/Libre license such as LGPL/GPL3 is better for people and society. Android is mostly apache, which means it's not resistant at all to a company "stealing" it without giving back to the community. - dependency on google: like it or not, key components of android are completely maintained by google. That means that the future of an open platform is at the whims of one organization. Sure, you could fork, but android is a massive project and a small team could hardly keep up. - "the core of android can still be used by any phone manufacturer": android, and the related IPs, is pretty firmly in the control of the US government. A lot of funding for non-android mobile OSes comes from other governments interested in a platform and support that is unencumbered from five eyes states My personal opinion? Having more platforms is good, as are more compatibility layers. Android is more than just an OS or a platform, it's a set of ABIs for running apps that's used by over a billion people.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

The improved hardware seems great!! Hope to see a PinePhone one day with the best mobile hardware available! Best processor, best GPU, best touch screen, best camera, best sensors... A flagship PinePhone.