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The Frame.work Marketplace Opened
- neatze 5y agoWill it ever ship with coreboot and linux support ?
- ncallaway 5y agoI installed the Fedora 35 beta on my framework laptop, and everything has been working perfectly well for me.
- yepthatsreality 5y agoRunning Manjaro KDE on mine. Only issue is typical Linux hibernation drains the battery. Otherwise flawless, fingerprint reader even works with KDE once configured.
- another_story 5y agoDoes is sleep properly on lid closing? Even more specifically, can you enable S3 sleep from the Bios? Some newer laptops have things locked down so sleep doesn't work right on Linux, meaning the laptop dies after a few hours of the lid being closed.
- sfotm 5y ago(Not GP) You pretty much have the option between s2Idle, s2deep, and hibernation. The s2Idle mode is really responsive, but it drains battery at a really high rate. s2deep isn't technically supported IIRC; I was able to turn it on and have seen the battery life under sleep improve, but it takes about 10 seconds to wake up to a point where I can log in. If I know I'm going to be away from my laptop for a long time, I'll generally put it in hibernation mode. There might be a better solution out there, but the general consensus seems to be that Linux + Tiger Lake aren't a great marriage at the moment when it comes to sleep. Arch Wiki tells you how to use s2deep, if you want to enable it: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Laptop/Framework#Suspend https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Laptop/Framework#Suspend EDIT: I said 10 minutes before, where I meant 10 seconds. Sorry about that.
- jokethrowaway 5y ago10 minutes to exit a sleep mode that doesn't drain the battery sounds like a deal breaker It's easier to turn it off at that point Hopefully it will be fixed with time
- sfotm 5y agoSorry, I meant 10 seconds there. Fixed it. And while s2deep does help a lot, it's still pretty far from perfect - certainly not the kind of sleep you'd get from a recent MacBook.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- StoneTable 5y agoCoreboot is something they want to do, and are hiring for: https://jobs.lever.co/framework/af82bd1b-7ebd-46da-8ae4-7dab700496d7 https://jobs.lever.co/framework/af82bd1b-7ebd-46da-8ae4-7dab... As for Linux support, it's already there. There are papercuts, like needing a fairly recent kernel and certain packages (for the fingerprint reader), but it works fine, by all accounts. I'm expecting my DIY edition to ship in the next week or so, and I'll be running Linux on it full-time.
- southerntofu 5y ago> (for the fingerprint reader) Wait, Framework has a fingerprint reader? Hope it's not built-in. That's a strong security anti-feature to have in an otherwise good-looking laptop.
- lights0123 5y agoIt's on the power button, but there's no need to use it if you don't want it.
- southerntofu 5y agoSure, i'm just disappointed they would force this on everyone. First, because it means they vet the practice while we should strongly discourage it (if not for ethical, at least for security reasons). Second, because Framework laptop sounds good otherwise, but i really don't want to financially support corporations who buy into this biometrics hellscape.
- ayushnix 5y agoYou'll have to live with fractional scaling if you buy the FrameWork laptop. I know many people will say it works "perfectly" for them even though fractional scaling is discouraged by almost every DE and window manager (including sway), not to mention many applications exhibit weird behavior like weird placement of popup menus or popup menus simply disappearing or flickering.
- terrycody 5y agoI am pretty sure many would want a mechanical keyword option.
- zuhsetaqi 5y agoBiggest bummer is that they're not using AMD chips. Does anyone know why?
- IYasha 5y agoNot sure of today, but a few years ago, AMD was harder to work with - getting parts, documentation, expamples, SDKs, etc. etc. (If you're not Sony). As I was told, lots of AMD initiatives towards openness were discontinued when AMD was taken over by new director(s) and became the "team red".
- teh_klev 5y agoI believe it's about getting attention and committing to a supplier a certain amount of orders so you get to deal with them directly. If Framework had split the manufacture of this machine between Intel and AMD then the volume of chips may not have been enough to be in a tier one relationship with either. And so you you need to pick one, and they probably felt that going with Intel first was the safe bet. I'm sure AMD will come along soon.
- namlem 5y agoI believe they are planning to make an AMD version.
- nisegami 5y agoI can't remember the last time I so badly wanted a company to succeed AND also believed it was possible for them to thrive. I think the landscape is right: awareness of reparability is probably at the highest its ever been, along with access to information and tools. The chip shortage and general lack of breakthrough gains in processing aside from Zen has stalled the upgrade cycles a bit, giving Framework time to dig its heel into the ground without being having to deal with new internal components. And the chip shortage also might produce a sense of "whatever I buy needs to last", which is a perfect match for Framework's platform.
- sylens 5y agoI believe they recently got more funding to expand operations because Linus from LTT said he was personally investing in them. That makes me feel a little bit better about waiting for a 14" form factor and/or an AMD chip
- terafo 5y ago> I believe they recently got more funding to expand operations because Linus from LTT said he was personally investing in them. That makes me feel a little bit better about waiting for a 14" form factor and/or an AMD chip IIRC he wasn't even a main investor and his investment was around 200k, which isn't that much.
- dwild 5y agoSure but he was able to be one because they recently did raise funds and had a tiny bit leftover.
- 0des 5y agoHere we indicate who is under the impression he invested for anything other than promotion
- kadoban 5y agoPromotion of who? Himself? Seems unlikely, he's more well known than Framework is and has easier ways to advertise. Of Framework? Yeah that seems like it'd be an intended part of the plan.
- 0des 5y agoI can't wait to own one of these when they start offering AMD
- Aromasin 5y agoSimply out of curiosity, why do you have this sentiment? I've seen it given a lot as the reason why people don't want to buy one yet, but the performance differences are slim compared the current Tiger Lake option; perhaps 10-20% on certain quad core workloads, more if optimized for octa, but worse on single and dual. Additionally, by the time the Ryzen CPU comes along, likely the Alder Lake processor will be released at which point Intel will have the edge performance wise (hybrid cores, DDR5, Xe graphics architecture etc.) Is it brand loyalty or another reason?
- IYasha 5y agoHope for lesser amount of backdoors.
- bashinator 5y agoMore cores for running k8s locally.
- 0des 5y agoThanks for the reply! For me, it's a preference, like tucked vs untucked. Intel has things outside of the realm of performance that turned me off, so my last few builds have been AMD and I'm generally satisfied. To your credit, I am typing this from an Intel device that is not my own, and it is performant as you mentioned.
- satvikpendem 5y agoAMD has better battery life given that they run cooler at a lower TDP than Intel chips. This is partly due to the processor architecture. So this is one tangible reason to prefer AMD especially in a laptop as battery life is very important.
- deadmutex 5y ago
- terrortrain 5y agoIf there were a track point keyboard, I don't think I could resist buying this laptop. I would also love a 16 or 18 inch version.
- komadori 5y agoLikewise, I love the idea but there's no way I can do without a pointing stick keyboard. This basically locks me into ThinkPads at the moment.
- stormbrew 5y agoI really hope they add a keyboard with better arrow key/home/end/pgup/pgdn keys at some point. This is literally one of the most important factors for me in a laptop because I hate the way most laptops do them.
- alshel 5y agoWhat laptops have that without having a number pad as well? I know my macbook doesn’t have a better hone/end/pgup/pgdn. I personally hate laptops with number pads because the keyboard is then off center, so I just accept this sacrifice on laptops. I do really wish they had macbook-like arrow keys, which are very effective for touch typing since the half-size makes them easy to feel.
- stormbrew 5y agoThe last dell (xps 13 2-in-1 from about 2 years ago) I bought has page up and down above left and right (half-size keys, like the macbook, but the gaps filled in), and home/end above in the f-key row. It's not my ideal but it's good enough.
- rssoconnor 5y agoMy old Acer C710 and my X1 Carbon also have dedicated pgup/pgdn/home/end keys in those locations. As soon as framework comes out with such a layout I'll buy a new panel.
- bashinator 5y agoMy ThinkPad X1 has no number pad, and puts pgup/pgdn on either side of the up-arrow key, which works quite nicely for me. I picked that laptop specifically for the keyboard.
- Liskni_si 5y agoAll ThinkPads up to T420/X220 (2011) have a proper delete/home/end/pgup/pgdown block at the top right. And then the 2017 ThinkPad 25 anniversary edition, which is what I'm using right now and hoping it lasts until there is a proper replacement on the market.
- alshel 5y agoI’m ordering the day the Thunderbolt expansion card becomes available. I just can’t make use of a laptop that I can’t plug my eGPU into.
- RL_Quine 5y agoIt's physically a USB-C port so I'm not sure you can do that.
- frosted-flakes 5y agoThunderbolt 3 and 4 both use USB-C.
- RL_Quine 5y agoRight but it's USB C, not thunderbolt.
- frosted-flakes 5y agoDo you mean USB 3? USB-C is the port, not the protocol.
- RL_Quine 5y ago"USB 3" is also ambiguous as hell. It's unfortunately talking about one of perhaps 10 different protocols, some of which are different depending on what year you are speaking of, because there's name collisions between incompatible versions.
- stormbrew 5y agoThe USB-C ports on it are allegedly thunderbolt4 in all but name, waiting on certification: https://community.frame.work/t/thunderbolt-4/255/13 https://community.frame.work/t/thunderbolt-4/255/13 There are people in that thread saying they've run egpus off it.
- Tsiklon 5y agoThat transparent keyboard marked as coming soon is very very cool looking.
- alshel 5y agoThose storage expansion cards are so awesome.
- jagger27 5y agoIs it possible to replace the drive inside of the enclosure or is it proprietary? I wonder if it’s just an M.2 adapter to USB.
- tossstone 5y agoThe cards are pretty small so I doubt there's enough space for an m.2. I would guess proprietary
- jagger27 5y agoYeah they’re not quite long enough as it turns out, although a different module could stick out if you really wanted it to. It is indeed proprietary, but I think they share the design resources for it. https://community.frame.work/t/storage-expansion-cards/154 https://community.frame.work/t/storage-expansion-cards/154
- fulafel 5y agoAren't the expansion modules all just things that are standard ports and storage options on normal laptops? Would be cool if they offered something a little specialized. But of course if the current setup lets them offer the base laptop with less ports at a reduced price compared to a less modular laptop with more standard ports, it could be a win too.
- ssklash 5y agoYes, but they are interchangeable within a single slot. So you're never locked into one type of port. One day you need an SD card reader, the next you need an Ethernet port. Just swap them out.
- horsawlarway 5y agoI see the expansion modules as a better solution to "dongle hell" that most users on new usb-c only machines are facing. My last two machines (work and personal) have been usb-c only, and for the most part I love it (shared chargers, shared docks, shared displays, etc). BUT! it can suck when I need to use my machine outside of the dock. In that case, I really want a standard usb-3 port or two, and an HDMI port (normally I'm presenting something, and basically every tv/projector under the sun has an hdmi port on it right now). I don't really want to have a giant chunk of plastic dangling off of my laptop that I have to remember, or that will get yanked on, or that I can accidentally leave behind. This seems like a nice solution to the problem. Given the current reviews, it seems pretty likely that I'll end up picking one of these machines up as my next personal laptop.
- underko 5y agoI recommend checking out https://community.frame.work/c/expansion-cards/developer-program/90 https://community.frame.work/c/expansion-cards/developer-pro... and the associated github page.
- uoaei 5y ago"Normal laptops" don't have many of those ports anymore, only available via dongle. I don't know what examples you refer to that are less expensive or more user-friendly.
- DanCarvajal 5y agoDefinitely my next laptop once I can justify a new laptop for my needs.
- _qbjt 5y agoThis is exciting! I do wonder how Framework will handle some of the logistical challenges associated with running a hardware company, namely distribution. I’ve been waiting on my Framework DIY Edition for several weeks now - it was estimated to arrive a couple of weeks ago but seems to be stuck in the purgatory that is Portland / Troutdale FedEx. Of course everything is kinda upside down in the world at the moment and Framework is barely a year old at this point, so I can’t really fault them here. That said, I really hope Framework is able to successfully scale in this regard. Like it would suck to order a replacement part you need only to have to wait a month or longer for it to arrive in the mail.
- kvark 5y agoI just received my DYI edition. I'm in Canada, and it was shipped 2 days ago. No extra charges. Best logistics experience I had in a while :)
- wbsss4412 5y agoYeah, parent should probably have acknowledged the current black hole that is the trout sale fedex currently. (Though they did call it purgatory) The current issues there have nothing to do with framework, it’s affecting everyone. My friend recently had their mattress shipment stuck there for over a week.
- mey 5y agoI kinda wish someone would produce a documentary on what the hell is going on over there. https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/ppreq9/packages_getting_stuck_at_troutdale_fedex/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/ppreq9/packages_g...
- windowsrookie 5y agoFrom what I hear, FedEx nationwide is extremely understaffed and they can't hire enough workers. UPS is also understaffed, but is not having the same issues hiring because they are unionized and offer better pay and benefits.
- kodah 5y agoI'm hoping by the next time I go laptop shopping that they've released a model with more USB C ports. This is phenomenal work though.
- mfer 5y agoMore ports? There are 4 slots and you can put in what you want. If you want all 4 to be USB-C you can have that. Are you looking for more than 4 slots? If that's the case you'll have to wait for different processors. I think the ones they are using only support up to 4 slots.
- forty 5y agoPersonally I'd like more external ports. My current laptop have like 2 usb-c 2 usb-a, 1 HDMI, 1 Ethernet, 1 audio jack and 1sd reader, which I find pretty convenient for most situations. I think the 4 internal ports are more than enough, but sometimes just being able to plug more stuff at the same time is nice. And I would miss Ethernet currently :)
- sleepyxuras91 5y agoMaybe just one card with multiple ports in it would solve that problem. I get the design decision but using one usb c port to a singular function does feel wasteful, when you can plug a dock in that has three USB 3.0 A ports, USB C passthough, ethernet, HDMI, SD card reader all into a singular USB C port (looking at my $40 laptop dock on my desk currently for how many ports they squeezed into it!)
- sleepyxuras91 5y agoLooking though the community mock ups seemly is considerations around display port and PD when making multiple port modules https://community.frame.work/t/dual-usb-c-expansion-card-mockup/2325/6 https://community.frame.work/t/dual-usb-c-expansion-card-moc...
- ajvs 5y ago
- loufe 5y agoThe amount of keyboard languages supported it fantastic. I was certain I wouldn't see "Canadian French" included but that definitely tipped the scales for me.
- msie 5y agoI would love a touchpad with mouse buttons please!
- sneak 5y agoHow do I buy one without giving money to Microsoft?
- jwcooper 5y agoYou can do the DIY option and choose no operating system. They're actively working on making it work well with linux: https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop
- ncallaway 5y agoAs an anecdotal data point, I installed the Fedora 35 beta on the framework laptop, and it's working very well with no real configuration necessary.
- codemac 5y agoClick the DIY option, click OS: None.
- kiba 5y agoI need a USB-A port because I was too stubborn and insisted on using usb-c only ports to my detriment. And it's "coming soon" only! Hope they will be available soon.
- ahupp 5y agoYou can get a USB-A expansion card with the laptop order, i think its just the one-off marketplace listing thats "coming soon".
- flatiron 5y agoI'm waiting on V2 of the DIY. I want to really get a sense of how upgradeable the laptop is. I hope I don't see "works on V1 not V2" and "works on V2 not V1" on their parts.
- eatbitseveryday 5y agoA regular SDCard expansion slot would be nice. My 2013 macbook pro has that, and makes it easy to transfer files from my camera.
- leovander 5y agoI'm swooning over that back to top button that spins as your scroll and it attempts to match your scroll speed.
- wayneftw 5y agoI didn't buy one because I am not sure how well the module system works with regards to converting USB-C to HDMI/DP/etc. In all of my past experience, converting USB to graphics resulted in one problem or another. It's too much complexity for my taste. Am I wrong about how this laptop works though?
- necovek 5y agoUSB-C port can have DisplayPort AltMode support: transferring DP data through an appropriate USB-C cable. I believe the similar holds for HDMI (up to 1.4b). Considering other commenters are saying how the port is likely TB4 without certification, those should be natively supported too.
- aunty_helen 5y agoLooking to get off Apples ecosystem after their last couple years of privacy debacles etc. I'm also facing a 350eur battery replacement as my mbp trends below 70% life and Apple requires me to replace about half of the laptop to get a new battery. This is the answer that I've been waiting for. My MBP is 15" and I prefer the bigger size / spec but this laptop is only 13" and would normally be a dealbreaker for me however, I'm going to put that to one side and jump in as soon as I have the capital. I want to be part of something that I see as good and a move in the right direction for repairability, openness and choice. I see a lot of people holding off because it needs X or they want an AMD cpu, I just want to say support this team now, they're doing great stuff and we as a community need to back them.
- prawn 5y agoI went from a 15" MBP to 13" M1 MBP. Had concerns about the screen size, but it's not been an issue. The performance upgrade has been significant, even though I went from 16GB RAM to 8GB. Main gripe is the limitation of one external display, so I'm hoping the larger MBPs about to be announced fix that. Anyway, don't let the smaller display put you off.
- feteru 5y agoI replaced my mbp battery recently, it wasn't too bad. Apple also quoted me needing to replace logic board, etc. due to some water damage indicators tripped. Just go slow and it's only ~<$200 for battery. Not to hold you back from getting a new framework, I replaced my battery but am still looking at one of these too!
- jedimastert 5y agoYou know what I would love to see? The mechanical keyboard community get a hold of this. Actually, what would be kinda cool and a bit more "practical" (in a since, at least) would be an option without any keyboard at all (plain aluminum or like plexiglass or acrylic or something) so I can use my own keyboard. I know from experience my Planck or Atreus fit on top of a normal laptop keyboard footprint, but I always feel so weird putting a mechanical keyboard on top of a laptop keyboard, damaging something or another. Actually, I'm off to go through that into the community forum
- keawade 5y agoI think it will likely take significant modification to fit a mech keeb in the laptop as is. [I asked about the stock keyboard dimensions and was told the module is 3.8mm thick](https://community.frame.work/t/the-keyboard/155/5 https://community.frame.work/t/the-keyboard/155/5) which doesn't leave enough room for low profile mechanical keyboard switches that are all ~8mm thick without accounting for caps. That said, I'm right there with you hoping to see some cool mech keeb work around these laptops!
- MrStonedOne 5y agothey want the ability to use it as an external keyboard, by just setting it on top of the existing keyboard, then removing it when they need to close the laptop. they don't want to do this now, because they worry about damaging something by doing so. So they want the laptop to have a blank cover where the keyboard normally is, so they have somewhere to put their mech keyboard while they use the laptop.
- horsellama 5y agoI’d buy immediately a module with a blank 60% ortholinear layout (possibly with QMK support)
- benhurmarcel 5y agoThere isn’t the thickness necessary for mechanical switches. What I’d love is to see some ergonomic layouts, kind of like Corne or Kyria (staggered columns and thumb cluster).
- heinrichhartman 5y agoAre there plans for a 15" Laptop soon? Can't wait to place an order.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 5y agoAny plans for a fanless option.
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago32 keyboard options and no Dvorak? Thanks, I'll pass. /s (But seriously, frame.work guys, add Dvorak!!)
- sangnoir 5y agoWell, if anyone has a laser etcher, I'd like to go into a 50/50 business with them (where I'm the "Ideas guy"): we (you) buy the blank keyboards from Framework, etch the keycaps and sell them, and then we split the profit /s
- alphakilo 5y agoOrtholinear Dvorak is the key to my purchase I'd also be happy with no keyboard and to use my own external keyboard
- mickotron 5y agoBuying one as soon as preorders are available in Australia.
- beefjerkins 5y agoAlso located in Aus, and I'm chomping at the bit to get my hands on one. Would love to support this company as much as I can!
- killingtime74 5y agoI'm in Aus, why wait, why not use a freight forwarder? They aren’t offering local warranty anyway
- LilBytes 5y agoWait, how do you mean they're not offering local warranty? If we purchased one through a forwarder, we'd be able to RMA individual parts still? Or not?
- killingtime74 5y agotheir current customers have to RMA back to US right? not to some Australian distributor
- dartharva 5y agoIt's interesting they chose such a compact form factor for their laptop right from the beginning. I'd reckon a 15.6" build would have been much easier to put together for modularity and ease of repair, and maybe once it gained traction they could have expanded to smaller forms. Their initial customer base (I'm guessing it'd be engineers and enthusiasts) would also have been compatible with a bigger laptop, even if the mainstream laptop market has been overrun with small devices for some reason.
- AdeptusAquinas 5y agoNow sell to NZ and AU pleeeeeeease
- MR4D 5y agoI would love to see a yubikey in here.
- appel 5y agoThe battery of my top of the line 2018 Surface Book 2 is failing and it would cost me $599 before tax to replace it. Instead, I'm going to put that money towards a new Framework laptop. I'm super excited to finally own a fully servicable laptop, really rooting for Frame.work to succeed. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/how-much-does-out-of-warranty-service-cost-for-your-surface-device-or-accessory-4c77ac8a-e8c3-d0e4-7e8a-a29f768d43ff https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/how-much-does-out-...
- throwawaycuriou 5y agoAbout a month back I decided it's long past due for me to try a tiling window manager. I've been rocking a DIY edition running Manjaro Sway community edition. There's been a learning curve coming from ChromeOS but I'm ecstatic. It feels like the first time I've had hardware and software tailored towards the priorities I have for a computer. The only thing I haven't gotten sorted is Bluetooth. I got it working once but it didn't survive a reboot. Others have figured it out, so I'm hopeful that I will too. Love seeing a reasonably priced replacement battery here in the marketplace. I may buy one now just to throw in the backpack. Swapping it out looks like it'd be a ~3 minute job.
- ayushnix 5y ago> I've been rocking a DIY edition running Manjaro Sway community edition. Have you enabled fractional scaling on your DIY? How well do applications work? Firefox, for example, goes haywire and its popup menus start flickering as soon as fractional scaling is enabled.
- throwawaycuriou 5y agoMy sway config has `output eDP-1 scale 1.25`. I started out with 1.5 liked it but eventually felt text still a little too large. At 1.25 I am finding I need to bump font size up with some sites. I've not seen tearing or any other graphical artifacts in any applications. I use fusuma for gestures. Had to change BAT0 to BAT1 in waybar config to get the battery to show up. Had to install Intel's WiFi drivers, probably because the Sway edition is on 5.10 kernel. I've upped to 5.14 without any noticeable issues.
- ayushnix 5y ago> My sway config has `output eDP-1 scale 1.25`. I started out with 1.5 liked it but eventually felt text still a little too large. At 1.25 I am finding I need to bump font size up with some sites. I've not seen tearing or any other graphical artifacts in any applications. The last time I enabled fractional scaling in Sway, I quit using Sway and Wayland in frustration and moved back to i3. Firefox, and many other applications, just don't behave appropriately when scaling (integer or fractional) is enabled. There are also bugs open on the Sway github issue tracker for this so it's not like this issue is restricted to just me. So it's best to have a laptop which needs either 100% scaling or 200% scaling, nothing in between.
- vips7L 5y agoWhat’s the difference between the DIY and regular editions?
- justusthane 5y agoDIY version comes partially assembled and has more options when purchasing in terms of specs/components. The other comes fully assembled in certain pre-built configurations. You're getting the same laptop either way though. https://frame.work/blog/the-evolution-of-the-framework-laptop-diy-edition https://frame.work/blog/the-evolution-of-the-framework-lapto...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jhanschoo 5y agoI think I have a somewhat relevant comment: as you might suspect for an Intel mainboard whose USB-C ports support such a wide variety of adapters, the USB-C ports on the framework laptop and those adapters are Thunderbolt 3-compatible, they just aren't certified yet.
- teh_klev 5y agoI think the killer feature would be if Framework provided schematics so you can carry out component level repairs, even on the replaceable modules.