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Ask HN: Practically accepting cryptocurrency for businesses without middlemen?

• devinhn 5y ago
  New and interesting stripe-like service for accepting Nano: https://github.com/formsend/nano.to https://github.com/formsend/nano.to "This service creates a Checkout UI for any valid 'nano_' or 'xrb_' address, for free. You can customize further with URL params or HTTP POST body data."
• ahnick 5y ago
  I think your best bet will be to go with Flexa. It is already well integrated into many PoS systems and can handle many of the popular cryptocurrencies. Also, customers who have exchange accounts with Gemini will already be able to checkout with the Gemini mobile app without having to download anything. https://flexa.network/integrations https://flexa.network/integrations
• Geee 5y ago
  For best experience, be sure to accept Bitcoin with Lightning Network. I'm not sure about industry standard, but BTCPay Server[0] and OpenNode[1] seem to be the most popular ones. BTCPay Server is open-source and self-hosted. [0] https://btcpayserver.org https://btcpayserver.org [1] https://www.opennode.com https://www.opennode.com
  • anonymoushn 5y ago
    Does this work? The only instances of people attempting to use LN I've witnessed ended in failure.
    • tcoff91 5y ago
      Everyone using Bitcoin in El Salvador is using lightning network for the most part.
      • anonymoushn 5y ago
        Through Strike, right?
        • typingmonkey 5y ago
          Yes, most of them. I think the risk by using strike is much less and you do not have to be online to accept payments. Which is not a good sign for general LN adoption.
        • Geee 5y ago
          They can use any LN wallet to pay, but most people use the official government app which is called Chivo.
      • NicoJuicy 5y ago
        And if you believe Bukele, they have more transactions than VISA ( 65 K / second)
        • aardvark179 5y ago
          Hmm the population of El Salvador is a bit over 6.5 million, which would mean an average of 1 transaction per 100 seconds per person. That seems unlikely.
      • ampdat 5y ago
        McDonalds is using OpenNode here in El Salvador: https://twitter.com/robertcurrie/status/1443055854056525831 https://twitter.com/robertcurrie/status/1443055854056525831
      • arcticbull 5y ago
        They definitely aren't. They're using Chivo which is a centralized custodial wallet solution. Transfers are just updates to their MySQL store - as they should be. Chivo only uses Strike's private LN nodes nobody else is allowed to peer with when facilitating an international transfer -- between two of Maller's own accounts. Chivo is not crypto. And that's what most folks there are being forced to use by the local dictator. It's centralized, trusted, censorable and entirely antithetical to the Satoshi white paper.
  • ignoramous 5y ago
    And if you do not want to spin up a server but simply use defi (wallet to wallet), then https://gilded.finance/ https://gilded.finance/ comes in pretty nifty.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• doomroot 5y ago
  Btcpayserver is by far the best open source solution in the space.
  • toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Tesla reported a security vulnerability in the project, as they used it for accepting Bitcoin and treasury management of it. To me, this signals confidence in the project's application security posture. https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/03/31/tesla-just-helped-patch-a-bug-in-this-open-source-bitcoin-payment-processor/ https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/03/31/tesla-just-helpe... https://twitter.com/BtcpayServer/status/1376962115504906240 https://twitter.com/BtcpayServer/status/1376962115504906240 https://github.com/btcpayserver/btcpayserver/releases/tag/v1.0.7.1 https://github.com/btcpayserver/btcpayserver/releases/tag/v1...
• spraveenitpro 5y ago
  BTCpay.
• _zllx 5y ago
  Electrum, one of the most popular desktop Bitcoin wallets, has a server component which can use your Bitcoin public keys on a web server to process transactions. It generates a verified request for payment in BTC using your existing SSL keys. Bitcoin still is the most ubiquitous for payments, even from Ethereum (e.g. via renBTC) but the transaction fees are still prohibitive for smaller sums less than $20 unless you involve Lightning network which may become much less turnkey. https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/merchant.html https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/merchant.html
• artfulhippo 5y ago
  If your users expect a reasonable level of UX quality, you're likely better off giving a middleman his ounce of flesh. If not, then spend your valuable time hacking together some combo of scripts and open source code to watch your wallets for incoming payments.
  • RustyRussell 5y ago
    I disagree: BTCPayServer is pretty smooth these days.
    • artfulhippo 5y ago
      I acknowledge that BTCPayServer works smoothly for BTC. What about ETH? Looking at their documentation, it seems like a kludge: https://docs.btcpayserver.org/FAQ/Altcoin/ https://docs.btcpayserver.org/FAQ/Altcoin/
      • RustyRussell 5y ago
        I didn't know it even supported Eth!
• mfrye0 5y ago
  I've been thinking about doing the same. Seems like most of answers here are BTC. Anything available in ETH yet? Or maybe XLM? A Stripe for crypto would be awesome.
  • Geee 5y ago
    Stripe used to have Bitcoin payments. Bitcoin payments fell out of fashion when fees started to rise. Let's see if they re-enable it with Lightning. https://stripe.com/blog/ending-bitcoin-support https://stripe.com/blog/ending-bitcoin-support
    • stevenicr 5y ago
      stripe has a lot of restrictions about what you can and can't use stripe for. I don't see stripe ever being a stripe for crypto - it's just nice ux with all the restrictions of visa/mc plus more restrictions to avoid the darker sides of some crpyt - like here's some crypt option with added regulations, plus more added rules and regulations from our overlords and some other overlords.
  • weq 5y ago
    Your bet best in accepting crypto directly with minimum fuss is setting up a crypto wallet and not attempting to bridge to fiat. this framework will get you off the ground quickly https://moralis.io/ https://moralis.io/ you can peg your crypto prices to fiat and advertise the crypto as floating that is final at the checkout. thats standard practice.
  • yokem55 5y ago
    You might check out zkcheckout from zksync who run a zk-rollup that inherits the full security of Ethereum with pennies for fees. This would allow for direct stablecoin payments without an intermediary and is fully self custodial (unlike strike).
  • ahnick 5y ago
    Flexa is basically Stripe for crypto and it supports ETH and XLM. https://flexa.network/currencies https://flexa.network/currencies
• heckingoodtimes 5y ago
  Check out Flexa. https://flexa.network/ https://flexa.network/
• itake 5y ago
  I used https://electrum.org/ https://electrum.org/ for accepting btc payments and it worked fine. The bigger issues I had that I am skeptical any self-hosted options have is protecting your wallets from being poisoned by 'black' bitcoin. Coinbase (and maybe others?) keeps a blacklist of banned wallets (stolen or associated with crime or gambling[0]). If a customer pays you from a black address, you may end up poisoning your entire crypto wallet and get flagged when you try to cash out. [0] - https://www.reddit.com/r/onlinegambling/comments/kpel7x/so_i_was_just_banned_from_coinbase_now_what/ https://www.reddit.com/r/onlinegambling/comments/kpel7x/so_i...
  • hda2 5y ago
    > poisoned by 'black' bitcoin. Can you expand further on this? Is there a public list of blacklisted addresses we can download/query? How far does the association extend for an address to be blacklisted by other entities?
    • ajkdhcb2 5y ago
      There are not public lists, with exception of official government sanctioned addresses. Only the chain analysis companies have the (valuable) data so the future seems to be that businesses will need to pay for a subscription and share data with them, if you want to transact BTC. The algorithms are not clear either, because that information could be used by adversaries with tainted coins to try to evade detection For this reason I would suggest using btcpayserver to only accept monero, since it is fungible like cash; for other cryptocurrencies I just don't know how to check if you're dealing with sanctioned entities etc without a middleman
      • folli 5y ago
        so much for decentralization...
        • arcticbull 5y ago
          1 BTC = 1 BTC, how much USD each one is worth varies due to its inherent lack of fungibility. 1 BTC is better thought of as a booster pack of 100,000,000 NFTs.
• apalmer 5y ago
  Amazing how their is a currency who's been rising for 10 years that you actually have to 'solve' for how to spend it.
  • SmellTheGlove 5y ago
    At least this one has a use case. Ever go on /r/cryptocurrency or some of the even more bonkers subs? Someone will post a new coin and half the comments look like bots and shills loving the tech and the use cases. They never actually state what the use case is, of course.
    • Hjfrf 5y ago
      Providing exit liquidity for the creator is always use case #1.
    • pxtail 5y ago
      > Someone will post a new coin and half the comments look like bots and shills loving the tech and the use cases Oh yeah, cryptocurrency classic - just look at the outcome of this thread, basically no solid solution backed up by majority of responders, almost every response links to different shiny landing page with plenty of buzzwords.
  • weq 5y ago
    Your talking about bridging currency. Something that most banks still cant do easily with any customer they have. ie. HSBC, a global bank, doesnt even support instant transfers around the world (payid), yet thats there buisness for how many years? ie. with crypto, u can setup a wallet, u can buy currency, then lend it out to a DeX for fees and apy in 3 clicks, no wait period, minimal capital expenditure. no forms to sign. that kid at macdonalds right now can DCA into crypto using his gaming PC at night time. if u had been doing that the last 10 years, u would be retired by now. get it? the younger generation, crypto is a investment opportunity like our parents generation saw real-estate. times have changed. the govs had there time to ban crypto, they havnt. its less volatile and more secure and more open then any 3rd world country currency. the investment bankers are in it. its not going anywhere. the masses (20-30s) have who are stacking crypto are going to be the voter bloc of the next 20 years.
• 1ark 5y ago
  BTCPayServer is probably the one with most surface area as it supports a few Bitcoin derivate coins. Alternative upcoming solutions like PayWithTerra[1] which is only a middleman watching the blockchain for you is interesting, but a bit out in the fringes. 1. https://paywithterra.com/ https://paywithterra.com/
• nprateem 5y ago
  Just list on the particl marketplace [1] and accept payments in part directly. They're working on a decentralised exchanged (DEX) to seemlessly accept payments in different currencies. [1] https://particl.io/marketplace/sell/ https://particl.io/marketplace/sell/
  • lvs 5y ago
    I'm so confused by this. This is a desktop app that you have to download and install to buy and sell things in a particular currency?
    • nprateem 5y ago
      It's a marketplace like Amazon on the blockchain. So depending on what the OP is selling they could just list there. It currently requires a desktop app but a website is planned.
• MerelyMortal 5y ago
  There is Kasisto which uses Monero (XMR). https://github.com/amiuhle/kasisto https://github.com/amiuhle/kasisto > Kasisto is a Point of Sale payment system to accept the cryptocurrency Monero. The only requirement is an internet connection, there are no third parties involved. > To be fast (confirmation within seconds), Kasisto accepts unconfirmed transactions. If you're not using a middleman, then I think it would be wise to use a private-by-default currency so that others cannot see your financials. --- EDIT: Kasisto may be obsolete, not sure. I recommend asking at https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero or at one of their IRC channels https://www.getmonero.org/community/hangouts/ https://www.getmonero.org/community/hangouts/ Also a great place to start is Monero Outreach [0]. A bit down the page is a link to a github which links to different integration possibilities for things like WooCommerce, Shopify, Magento, and OpenCart [1]. [0] https://www.monerooutreach.org/merchants/how-to-accept-monero.html https://www.monerooutreach.org/merchants/how-to-accept-moner... [1] https://github.com/monero-integrations https://github.com/monero-integrations EDIT: Another link I found: https://monerointegrations.com https://monerointegrations.com (Disclaimer, I own some XMR after learning about it here on HN years ago.)
  • matheusmoreira 5y ago
    Monero is one of the best coins for actual payments right now. I've seen people pay others in XMR for original content. Low fees and good speed.
  • kibbleble 5y ago
    Monero is so underrrated. It's always "bitcoin this, bitcoin that" as if that's the only currency which matters. For now, since fiat onramps are pretty obvious, people report their taxes like normal. Record each transaction until it's good enough, give or take some under-the-table cash. Here's an interesting project that's trying to encourage crypto adoption: https://cryptoforthehomeless.org/ https://cryptoforthehomeless.org/
• tcgv 5y ago
  Most comments suggest using BTC in various ways, as usual. I'm curious as to why hasn't a stablecoin been adoptet/gained mainstream traction for this use case yet? They seem like a perfect fit for making digital payments while preventing exposure to crypto volatility.
  • robcohen 5y ago
    They are the perfect application, the problem is that they are generally expensive to use (see ethereum fees). There are efforts to get smart contracts working in Bitcoin, but we’re waiting for full implementation of taproot for most of that to be feasible. Stellar USDC is cheap to use, but Stellar seems pretty centralized to me, so there’s that issue. Another problem is that you need to convert USDC to USD, which is yet another step and also considered a trade so there’s more bookkeeping there.
    • tcgv 5y ago
      Good point, ethereum fees are a deal breaker. At least with regards to the fees problem we now have side chains that make really cheap to send/receive stablecoins (USDC, USDT, DAI, etc). You can currently transact stablecoins on Polygon paying one tenth of a penny in fees [1], and there's more than US$ 1bi in stablecoin supply already being transacted there (US$ 700mi for USDC alone). [1] https://polygonscan.com/tx/0xc260342a31648108f88e3cb5afe740a4ca18b24aca941ced86e1e5a1fee338b4 https://polygonscan.com/tx/0xc260342a31648108f88e3cb5afe740a...
  • __d 5y ago
    The "perfect fit for making digital payments while preventing exposure to crypto volatility" is ummm ... fiat with Visa/Mastercard? Which is exactly why no cryptocurrency has gained mainstream traction: it's solving a "problem" that doesn't exist for most people, and doing so in a way that introduces new problems.
    • smabie 5y ago
      traditional payment processors wield undo influence and control over businesses: just look at the past onlyfans drama. Moving away from a duopoly that censors legal businesses it doesn't like is definitely valuable, and also something a stable coin could facilitate. Moving money around onchain is orders of magnitudes easier than using the tradfi systems. Most crypto firms (trading firms, VCs, protocols, etc) are exclusively using crypto to invest in deals, pay employees, etc. It really is so much better. And I say this as someone who works in crypto for purely practical purposes (ie making money) and does not buy into the idea of crypto utopia.
• xrd 5y ago
  Zcash is a great option. You can buy it on Coinbase once you have an account. Zcash has a very usable app on Android. Zcash does not have the speculative crowd like Ethereum or Bitcoin, so the price is more stable. Transaction fees are low. If you buy on Coinbase and then transfer into a wallet on your phone, you must use the public address (Coinbase obviously wants to provide data on what you did with the money you purchased from them). Once the Zcash is in your local wallet, you can use cloaked addresses for private transactions if you want. Email me for more information if you want: chris@finneyfor.com
• BoHerfVIJrEsq 5y ago
  Here's an example of accepting an ERC20. https://github.com/0xBrian/0xBTCpay https://github.com/0xBrian/0xBTCpay
• JudgePenitent 5y ago
  If you aren't using stablecoins then you are paying with volatile assets. If the assets are more volatile than usd, and if the cost of said volatility is greater than potential savings with transaction fees, then you will end up paying more to transact values between individuals to get...? Security? Speed? Stablecoins at least in the States are awaiting proper regulation. Without proper regulations you should not be using stablecoins, because once regulations are declared they will most likely pick a few leading horses to carry the standard and murder off the rest. That said any current existing software which allows transactions with stablecoins is built upon shaky and uncertain ground. Best to wait.
• traintrain 5y ago
  Check Bitcoin.com merchant services
• hmrtn 5y ago
  Depending on what you would like to support, a simple smart contract and ethers.js and web3.js would suffice.
• ilaksh 5y ago
  I recommend Algorand. Created by Turing Award winner Silvio Micali at MIT plus other great engineers. Fees less than a penny. Clears in 5 seconds, confirm within about 20 seconds. Powerful smart contract language and built in asset feature. Supported by Coinbase and others (Kraken I think for example).
• hda2 5y ago
  Addendum since I can't edit my post anymore: we already accept traditional payment methods (credit cards and bank transfers). We want to accept cryptocurrency /in addition/ to those methods. We are a registered business (not US-based).
• manojvenkat92 5y ago
  bitpay?
• pmorici 5y ago
  Bitcoin Cash is probably the best option due to low fees. A stable coin would be ideal but Ethereum transaction fees are so high right now and likely will be for some time that unless the payments are large amounts it isn’t practical for commerce.
• kinnth 5y ago
  Moonpay.com works, it accepts about 100 different coins and handles the transacations and KYC (as all crypto transactions now need KYC) However, it's fees are hefty something like $4 or 5% whichever it higher. So only makes sense if you sell things that cost $100 or more.
  • capableweb 5y ago
    > Ask HN: Practically accepting cryptocurrency for businesses without middlemen? > directly accepting payments from customers? Your reply: > handles the transacations and KYC You seemed to have missed 50% of the post you're answering to. > as all crypto transactions now need KYC You might want to specify what country you're thinking about, not all countries have laws around KYC and cryptocurrencies.
• kinnth 5y ago
  The issue imo is the infastructure to tie the transaction to the purchase still needs to attach on chain data with offchain data and so that's complex for each chain and each website or app backend. Still recommend using a payment partner at this stage.
• crypt1d 5y ago
  Depends on the business. Are you B2B or B2C? How many sales/invoices in crypto are you expecting, per month? If we are talking about just a few sales, I'd recommend something like https://request.network/en/invoicing/ https://request.network/en/invoicing/ . You can also try https://bitpay.com/business https://bitpay.com/business if you want to integrate the payments into a customer portal.
• sireat 5y ago
  A bit of a related question: What is the best option to offer crypto payments to customers who hold no crypto and are new to crypto? I have a side project in a domain where I pay about 15-20% for CC verification/foreign exchange/payout. Huge numbers where crypto should be preferable. However, even with discounts I can not get any crypto payments. Customers do prefer to use CCs. I check the crypto payments space every few years but do not see anything remotely user friendly. Paypal/Revolut/Venmo etc they all offered some benefits/stickiness to the customer. They were also easy to onboard(for one intially Paypal delayed KYC extra security until later) I am still looking for a pure crypto solution.
  • gwbas1c 5y ago
    > I have a side project in a domain where I pay about 15-20% for CC verification/foreign exchange/payout. I wouldn't assume that cryptocurrency will solve that problem for you. That's a huge cut, and I suspect if you get a little creative, you could bring that cut down. (Remember that cryptocurrency has its own set of problems too.) > to customers who hold no crypto and are new to crypto > Customers do prefer to use CCs IMO, look for a different credit card solution.
  • Geee 5y ago
    Where are your customers located at? Using bitcoin is not difficult (it's easier than CC), but acquiring it can be a UX hurdle for new users, and it depends on services that are locally available. In the US, Strike is probably the easiest one to get started. There's also no fees to buy bitcoin. Downside is that it works just in the US and a few additional countries. https://strike.me https://strike.me You can buy bitcoin on Paypal and Venmo, but they can't be used for payments yet.
• rglullis 5y ago
  If you just want to accept BTC (plus some other supported coins), BTCPayServer is your best bet. It is very good, but due to its architecture it does not store any private keys in the server, so it is not designed to work with account-based chains like Ethereum. If you want to accept stabletokens (which seems to be the case since you don't want to necessarily hold crypto as an investment, so stable tokens can help you to avoid volatility), you will certainly want to be able to accept ERC20 tokens. I'd recommend you take a look at Hub20 [0], which I've been working for a while and it aims to be the Ethereum analog to BTCPayServer. Currently Hub20 is also integrating with Raiden Network[1], which works in a similar way to BTC's Lightning (but again has the advantage that it can work with any erc20 token, so you can transact with stable tokens if you wish) Hub20 is self-hosted and it does provide a way to store and manage secrets and wallet keys. For a self-hosted scenario, this means that you are always in control of your funds. I am also working on a checkout system[2] so that people can accept payments from their site in a similar way to Stripe. I've been working to turn Hub20 into my full-time project recently, I'm always on the Matrix room [3] for any kind of support. I'm also open to consulting in the domain. Let me know if I can be of any help. [0] https://docs.hub20.io https://docs.hub20.io [1] https://raiden.network https://raiden.network [2] https://gitlab.com/mushroomlabs/hub20/checkout20 https://gitlab.com/mushroomlabs/hub20/checkout20 [3] https://matrix.to/#/#hub20:communick.com https://matrix.to/#/#hub20:communick.com (Edit: I'm usually not one to complain and take downvotes with stride, but why would someone downvote this comment?!)
• martin_vejmelka 5y ago
  https://flexa.network https://flexa.network uses crypto in interesting ways for risk transfer and is practically no-fuss for merchants in the sense of complying with regulatory requirements. 1% fees flat.
• pajop 5y ago
  BTCPayServer supports other coins aside from Bitcoin btw: https://docs.btcpayserver.org/FAQ/Altcoin/ https://docs.btcpayserver.org/FAQ/Altcoin/ https://docs.btcpayserver.org/Development/Altcoins/#how-can-i-add-an-altcoin-to-btcpayserver https://docs.btcpayserver.org/Development/Altcoins/#how-can-...
• bob229 5y ago
  crypto is absolute trash. stop wasting our time and get real
• tiku 5y ago
  Build a service that offers webhooks on incoming payments for blockchains. Sending address and receiving address is unique enough to use as payment identifier. Perhaps there is a service like this already?
• elvyscruz 5y ago
  You can use https://nowpayments.io/ https://nowpayments.io/ which is a noncustodial crypto payment service with support of dozens of coins and tokens. You can easily create invoices, payment buttons or use the api to build your custom solution.
• inc 5y ago
  I provide a service at https://tilt.cash https://tilt.cash that lets you accept crypto payments directly into a private wallet.
• novalis78 5y ago
  Byteconnect.us
• q1w2 5y ago
  I don't have a recommendation - I just want to make you aware of a major issue other stores have... > We do not intend to convert to traditional currency unless needed. This is a big risk due to cash flows. Most stores operate on a margin on merchandise that is under 10%, with a turnover on goods averaging months. If a currency fluctuates in value more than ~10% over several months, this can easily drive an otherwise healthy business into cash flow driven bankruptcy. Selling 100% of your goods, and then not being able to replenish that stock because the crypto you held has dropped more than 10% over a 6 month period is a disaster waiting to happen.
  • derangedHorse 5y ago
    I imagine whatever cryptocurrency payment system they end up implementing will still be used by a minority of customers, so most of their existing stockpiles will still most likely be held in their domestic currency.
  • exo762 5y ago
    > If a currency fluctuates in value This is why you want to use stablecoins. There is plenty to choose from.
    • doovd 5y ago
      So just use fiat?!
    • SQueeeeeL 5y ago
      This just sounds like cash with extra steps
      • throwawayay02 5y ago
        I don't know if there are any, but I can see value in a stablecoin representing a basket of different currencies.
        • SQueeeeeL 5y ago
• edwmatta 5y ago
  I'm also curious about the industry standard regarding this. I've taken a look at coinpayments; I'm curious about what you guys think about it.
• recursive4 5y ago
  For context, I've accepted ~$400k (Eth, USDT, USDC) in payments for physical assets. A few important questions here: - What currencies do your customers hold? – At what price points are you transacting? – What are you selling? – How much of this process are you looking to automate? – Estimated monthly trx volume? Presumably you are not interested in exposure to price volatility (since you're not holding as an investment) so your holdings should be denominated in USDC and custodied, earning a yield through BlockFi or Nexo. I'll keep an eye out for your answer in the comments.
• dQw4w9WgXcQ 5y ago
  I would recommend something like Algorand for receiving payments. Stable network (zero fork), fast settlement times, extremely low fees + carbon usage. Circle has a full API for receiving USDC payments on top of Algorand here: https://www.circle.com/en/usdc-multichain/algorand https://www.circle.com/en/usdc-multichain/algorand https://developers.circle.com/docs/getting-started-with-the-circle-payments-api https://developers.circle.com/docs/getting-started-with-the-... USDC can of course all be swapped across various chains. Probably the cleanest and fastest crypto API payment gateway right now. On the Algorand side there's a React toolkit for developing the ability to receive/send: https://github.com/headline-design/pipeline-ui https://github.com/headline-design/pipeline-ui https://github.com/headline-design/algo-pay https://github.com/headline-design/algo-pay
  • PretzelPirate 5y ago
    I’m not sure I’d want to accept payments on Algorand since they have centralized relay nodes that can shut down the chain.
    • dQw4w9WgXcQ 5y ago
      That's fine, you can accept payments elsewhere. The Circle API on top of Algorand has been extremely easy to integrate and move USDC around.
• tlarkworthy 5y ago
  interledger protocol is for exactly this, and it's not a Blockchain, https://interledger.org/ https://interledger.org/
• alangibson 5y ago
  > We do not intend to convert to traditional currency unless needed. You'll need to. Unless you want to live in a permanent cash crunch, or your crypto payments never exceed a couple percent, youll be converting it.
• Butller 5y ago
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• nastypasty 5y ago
  Monero would be an alternative. Privacy should not be optional. Read this article https://www.monerooutreach.org/stories/satoshi-van-saberhagen.html https://www.monerooutreach.org/stories/satoshi-van-saberhage...