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Been extremely happy with mine the past couple months. The little modular port attachments seemed like a novelty at first, but now it feels absurd that you'd bu

Been extremely happy with mine the past couple months. The little modular port attachments seemed like a novelty at first, but now it feels absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change. The only real Linux related quirk I've run into so far is that you have to disable panel self refresh (it's on by default and causes stuttering). Other than that tiny thing I pretty much just installed my stuff and started using it. One little anecdote: I got a card in the mail from Framework saying that there was a problem with the cable for the touchpad, and it had instructions on how to fix it. Contrast that to my experience with Apple where they would delete forum threads for laptop problems and spend years denying issues until legal action forced them to acknowledge it. Anyway, I'm a fan. I'm really looking forward to when the marketplace opens up with some new parts. I really want my blank keyboard. I'm hoping 2021 will be the year I can own a laptop without a god damn windows logo emblazoned on the keys.

ericpauley 5y ago
Maybe I need some convincing here. How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles (i.e., how Macs have been since 2016). To me the fact that the port attachments are recessed is little more than a gimmick. Especially as all of my devices have transitioned to USB-C anyway, dongles/"modular ports" feel more like a stopgap measure than one requiring a permanent form factor change.
- s0rce 5y ago
  I think the proliferation of usb-c has finally solved the universal port issue, you can just buy a 3rd party dongle with HDMI/displayport, usb-c (with pass through charging), sd-card, usb, etc. and it works great. Meets my needs pretty well.
- fossuser 5y ago
  Yeah - I think Apple's approach is the right tradeoff, though I admit I think it's cool from a nerd that likes gadgets perspective. If there's enough of a market for that that they can survive that's cool, but I think there's a reason it's not the default design (that isn't some cynical one about planned obsolescence).
  - Jotra7 5y ago
    Too bad reality disagrees. It's entirely about planned obsolescence because Apple knows the rubes will buy anything they are told.
- etbusch 5y ago
  Two things: They are replaceable when the external ports (USB-C or otherwise) wear out without the need for soldering or internal board replacement. The design of the modules is open source, meaning that anyone can design a module that fits their needs.
  - olah_1 5y ago
    how does a port “wear out”? i’ve never heard of that
    - AlfeG 5y ago
      It when You need to adjust cable multiple times until connection happen, and then work very careful to not move anything. Ports sometimes are very fragile. My old laptop has only 2 of 4 USB ports working.
    - scohesc 5y ago
      This was something that was more prominent during the Micro-USB era. The little metal "tabs" on the male end of microUSB connectors would start to wear out after a thousand+ plug/unplugs resulting in a loose connection that wasn't reliable. With USB-C, the connector was designed consideration of a bunch of factors, one of which I would assume is lifespan of the end connectors - USB-c has thicker, more resilient plastic hooks built into the inside of the male plug and stronger mating latches in the female end of the connector. https://www.quora.com/How-do-USB-cables-particularly-USB-C-stay-connected-to-their-devices https://www.quora.com/How-do-USB-cables-particularly-USB-C-s...
    - magicalhippo 5y ago
      Connectors are rated for a given number of connect/disconnect cycles. For USB-A it's a minimum of 1500[1]. If your laptop has a cheap connector which isn't rated for more, and you do two cycles a day (start/end of day, start/end lunch), then you'll go through the rated number of cycles in less than two years. Doesn't mean the connector will fail right away but it might start to act up. Connectors are not forever. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Durability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Durability
- strix_varius 5y ago
  I find it hilarious that we spend multiple thousands of dollars on sleek, elegant hardware and then hook up chunky plastic dongles to overcome their bad hardware interfaces. So I love the idea of these ports (agreed, they're basically "recessed dongles"). I couldn't lose them / forget them. They wouldn't take up space in my bag while I'm traveling. I could "set and forget" them to perfectly match whatever desktop / docking setup I'm using. In five years when my wireless VR system uses some as-yet-unknown hardware interface, I can swap a single component out to support it. Seems like brilliant design to me.
  - EduardoBautista 5y ago
    I don't understand how this meme about "dongles" still exists. You know how I avoided using dongles? I just used USB-C cables. And for the very few things that don't have a detachable cable, I use a micro USB-C adapter. It's been several years since the release of the USB-C only MacBook Pros, this shouldn't be an issue if you put in a minimal amount of effort.
    - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
      HN bubble at work, right here. Some of my clients still have projectors with... vga ports. Then you need ethernet and hdmi of course, regularly in the corporate world or at your friends house. So yeah, dongle it is. USB-C dongle for sure, but still dongle.
      - EduardoBautista 5y ago
        There are cables for USB-C to VGA and HDMI, no dongle required. Ethernet, OK, I will give you that.
        BiteCode_dev 5y ago
        I don't see how putting a cable in my backpack is going to be better than a dongle, and I'm certainly not going to a client for the first time then complain they don't have the right cable. Not to mention the dongle supports several ports. But you know what is better than either ? The framework laptop solution of letting me configure the port I want before going to my client.
- mikenew 5y ago
  I wouldn't think of them as recessed dongles. After installing them I haven't changed them out at all so far. It's more that you can configure things how you want. If you wanted 4 usb-c ports and that's all; just do that. I would love it if all my devices had transition to usb-c, but they haven't. I still occasionally need usb-a and sometimes I need an hdmi out. So... that's what I have. And if I stop needing usb-a I'll get rid of it and put in another usb-c. You could even do a single usb-c port and then 3 storage attachments if you wanted. Nobody is ever going to sell a laptop like that, but for someone who really needs storage and doesn't care about connectivity that might be perfect. If you're okay with dongles then you're probably fine. I'm not. They clutter up the workspace, occupy permanent space in my bag which is annoying, and often enough aren't around when I actually need them.
  - andersonvom 5y ago
    It also goes a little bit beyond that: if one of your ports stops working (e.g. rust, water damage, etc), you can just buy a replacement port and you're back on track, as opposed to "welp, I guess I'll have to do without it..."
- bo1024 5y ago
  My devices aren't USB-C (e.g. headset, tablet) and I use HDMI cables a lot. So it's great for me. Turns out thanks to the modular port design it's also great for you!
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  Quite the opposite, it means you can start with plenty of usbA port, and when you don't need them anymore, switch them to usbc, without changing your laptop. It means when one port wears of, fixing it is easy, cheap, and doesn't immobilize your machine. It means you can change your port to fit an hdmi or ethernet as needed, without having the stuff coming out your laptop, all ugly and taking space on the desk.
- matt_heimer 5y ago
  The modular ports are my least favorite part as well. The fact that you have to buy one USB type c module just to be able to easily plug in your charger is crazy. Another just to have reachable USB port. Maybe 1 or 2 modular spots would be nice, but put in some standard type c ports and monitor connectors without having to pay an upcharge or include at least 2 type c modules free.
  - CameronNemo 5y ago
    Is the "upcharge" actually significant for the USB C ports? It is like an extra $20 on a $1k computer.
    - matt_heimer 5y ago
      It has 4 type C ports, that's what the modules plug into. So the type C port module is basically a one inch extension cable. They do recommend you buy 4 so it's $80 and not $20. Having ANY upcharge to be able to have an expectedly reachable port to plug your laptop's power supply into seems like a design flaw. Unless they've done research that shows the type C port on the main board is a common point of failure and needs soldering to fix I don't see the point. I've had to clean lint out of ports but I've never broken a type C port on a computer.
      - CameronNemo 5y ago
        No the type C ports are $9 each, so it is less than $20 for two. You can reach the port without a module, but sure they could throw in one or two for free I guess. You should suggest that. I know users do not like to be nickel and dimed, and the two modules probably do not increase the BOM much. That said they may be planning for a situation where you bring your own modules or buy from a third party if you wish -- it is an open design after all. Consider the enterprise use case. An org could have a batch of USB-C modules for replacement that they source from a third party for a cheap price, and then order the laptops themselves on demand. Framework is all about reducing waste, so only giving users what they ask for is part of that.
- xur17 5y ago
  The main advantage is that the dongles are all built into your laptop. With dongles I have a pile of them in my bag (that takes up more room), I have to remember to carry them around with me if I'm in a conference room, etc.
- paxys 5y ago
  The modular port is a universal port with dongles. Except that (1) it doesn't take extra space outside of your computer, (2) it is cheaper than mainstream dongles (Apple sells USB-C to HDMI for $70 while the Framework HDMI expansion is $20), and (3) it is fully open source and you can actually print/sell your own.
  - nomel 5y ago
    > Apple sells USB-C to HDMI for $70 Luckily, USB-C means you don't have to buy any accessory from Apple, and have the world of low cost peripherals at your disposal, like the $13 version on Amazon [1]. 1. https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/ref=pa_sp_atf_aps_sr_pg1_1?ie=UTF8&adId=A00361433IK3OF4YHR41P&url=%2FAdapter-QGeeM-Thunderbolt-Compatible-Pixelbook%2Fdp%2FB07JW7GT7H%2Fref%3Dsr_1_2_sspa%3Fdchild%3D1%26keywords%3Dusb-c%2Bto%2Bhdmi%2Bmac%26qid%3D1632254361%26sr%3D8-2-spons%26psc%3D1%26smid%3DA13X8I731GDUWB&qualifier=1632254361&id=2864652438586679&widgetName=sp_atf https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/re...
    - glandium 5y ago
      The main downside is that you don't know what you get on Amazon (and I say that as someone who bought DisplayPort cables on Amazon that turned out to have the pin 20 problem http://monitorinsider.com/displayport/dp_pin20_controversy.html http://monitorinsider.com/displayport/dp_pin20_controversy.h...).
      - chrischen 5y ago
        Usb c means i can just buy the framework one to use.
    - sbierwagen 5y ago
      And how many different $13 cables and hundreds of fake reviews do you have to wade through before you find one that works? Efficient markets hypothesis. Apple's cable costs $70 because it's guaranteed to work.
- charwalker 5y ago
  The modularity means you can change your workflow or peripherals without needing to find a dock or dongles long term. You can travel with the HDMI dongle in for putting a movie on a hotel TV or use with an external monitor somewhere. Maybe you need that SD card reader for most of your photo work but only on weekends or trips when you go process images immediately or need to offload them from the SD card. Regardless, the port can be what you need it to be or just a useful USB-C, you aren't tied to whatever ports the OEM thinks you'll need forever even though it may only be valued by a small number of consumers. That small number is still enough to drive sales for FrameWork. I'm interested if I need a better laptop and I sit at a desk with desktop in use almost all the time. This appeals to those that interested in more control over their device in configuration, expansion or modifications, and the various ports and IO options. I can't say I'd buy many of the USB modules (rarely would use most anyway) but the mentality is there and I so far have trust in the product. It's not meant to appeal to GAMERS or Enterprise execs, just those that want more control over their devices.
- Osiris 5y ago
  My understanding is that all the module ports ARE USB-C. So the dongles are just made to fit inside the laptop instead of outside.
- earthscienceman 5y ago
  I'll give a reply not seen here yet. I haven't bought the framework laptop (yet) but I can see the module appeal. There's all sorts of hacker-ish ideas that I could imagine stuffing in there and the fact that I don't need a dongle means they're always attached and ready to be thrown in a bag. My first idea: Framework offers a 1Tb storage module for their ports! I backup my root OS via ZFS snapshot to USB every so often now. How great would it be to have a storage port that's all the recent snapshots of your important datasets. And, the possibilities are endless. The fact that they don't change the form factor of the laptop and that they're always attached is actually a big deal.
- rhacker 5y ago
  Absolutely agree. If I ever had to go back to a "docking station" which I'm sure many on here have used in the past I'd be ripping out my hair. A single multi-port dongle with Hdmi, extension USB-C and USB-A makes it so that I connect 1 thing to my laptop at my desk. And you don't have to press the whole laptop on some weird device that can scrape that back of your laptop. If more people had experienced docking stations of 10 years ago they would also be excited for these dongles.
- lr1970 5y ago
  > How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles ... At least the "modular port" adapters are not dangling from the side of a laptop as the dongles do. Dongles totally ruin the esthetics of otherwise slick MacBook for me.
- whywhywhywhy 5y ago
  Have you tried dongles? They barely work. I beg for an age where monitors and drives plugged into Macbooks worked again without flickering and random disconnects you get with dongles.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    These are literally USB-C to X dongles. You may prefer them to be integrated, but they won't solve any compatibility issues.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
  What upsets me about the solution is that the whole laptop is limited to 4 ports. They don't even offer the obvious "2 in 1" dongles where one dongle would contain e.g. two USB-A ports. Many other laptops aren't modular - but they offer more than enough ports to make up for it. You need at least 1 USB-C port for charging. If you want to be able to use an external mouse and keyboard without a hub, that's 2 USB-A ports that you need. That leaves you the choice between having one USB-C port OR HDMI for the last port. There isn't even an Ethernet option at all. And you still get the potential downsides of the ports being adapters from USB-C, if I understand correctly. If you grab a Lenovo P14s, you can't swap one of the two RAM sticks (limiting you to 48 GB), opening it takes a little bit more work, and replacing some of the more integrated components is going to be harder (SSD is trivial). In exchange, you get 2x USB-A, 2x USB-C, HDMI, MicroSD, and full-sized (not flip-out/break-off) Ethernet. Plus an optional built-in smartcard reader, plus some proprietary docking port extension around one of the USB-C ports. Looking at the Gen 2, you can get that at around 3/4 of the price with a similar or better config (including a somewhat serious GPU) as long as you order on the weekend (when Lenovo's non-ripoff pricing is in effect), and you can also add a fingerprint reader and NFC if you want. The Framework laptop has upgradeable RAM, but you will have to upgrade it yourself (discarding the RAM that comes with it) if you want more than 32 GB, and no matter what, it won't ever support more than 64 GB. Is supporting at most 64 GB really that much better than a laptop with 64 GB soldered in? By the time you want to upgrade the CPU, the mainboard won't be compatible, so what's really there to upgrade?
  - theschmed 5y ago
    I don't agree with most of your points, but I do (at least on initial review) agree with this: > They don't even offer the obvious "2 in 1" dongles where one dongle would contain e.g. two USB-A ports. I would have thought that by making the expansion ports slightly wider, including 2 USB-A would be possible. At my side gig running livestreams, I often end up with more than 4 USB-A devices connected, unfortunately, so with USB-C charging and HDMI, I'd need a dongle to use this device even with such a 2x USB-A expansion. - USB-A dongle for wireless mouse - External USB-A sound card (to connect the mixer board) - External USB-A camera - External USB-A flash drive to load up PowerPoints etc provided by the presenter - ... and then maybe I need to plug in my USB-A Yubikey to authenticate. Or a 2nd flash drive. That said, using a USB-C hub/dongle for cases like mine isn't the end of the world.
- NikolaNovak 5y ago
  I assume if all your devices are usb c you realistically have no horse in this game - and that's great. For those who have different needs than vendor provides - permanent or temporary - recessed or not, or in other words part of computer or something I need to carry/lose/forget/misplace can be a huge huge difference.
- bastardoperator 5y ago
  I don't get it either. I dock my MacBook and my monitor supports USB-C which also provides power and a bunch of other standard USB connections. I don't even really need a dongle anymore.
- dannyw 5y ago
  Different users want different ports. For example, as a photographer, I need a SD card slot. No, my workflow hasn’t transitioned to 100% USB c. I doubt it will. I will always want to plug in a HDMI monitor sometime for example. No, I refuse to use products that require me to carry and lose shitty dongles and hubs. I refuse. That’s also why I’ve never purchased a phone without a headphone jack, because I love listening to music on my Moondrops or whatever IEMs I like.
- necovek 5y ago
  I would say it's quite similar to having a touch device with an integrated pen holder where pen disappears in the device (so it can't fall out) and not. It is a "gimmick", but if you are frequently shuffling your laptop around, having a bag clear of dongles and "floating" stuff is a world of difference. I mean, even thinness in laptops is a gimmick (it's actually the first thing I'd do away with to get maintainability, battery life and better cooling/performance/noise — fanless, anyone?), but it sells like hot cakes.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  When a port is damaged it can be easily and affordably replaced.
- eecc 5y ago
  Being recessed means you can leave them inserted while carrying the device. Dongles significantly spoil the portability experience.
- _ph_ 5y ago
  The thing is, that the dongles are integrated into the laptop body. For a portable machine, this is huge. I love my 16" MB pro and do think that 4x USB-C is great for connectivity, but having to carry up to 4 dongles with me any time I move between working at home and the office is pretty much a nightmare. The built-in dongle ports, if you might call them that, are a much more elegant solution - somthing Apple should have invented (and could have sold for a lot of money). On top of that, they seem to provide even more "dongles" than laptop ports out of the box. It is also probably mechanically much more robust, if you plug cables into your dongle box instead of into the (motherboard mounted) port directly. If one of the dongle boxes breaks, it should be cheap to exchange.
- skohan 5y ago
  The thing about dongles is you don't always have it with you. The biggest change I noticed when I got a USB-C based mac is that I couldn't just plug it into every projector through the HDMI, so I had to start planning ahead more. Same with getting photos off of an SSD card Abstracting the ports makes a ton of sense. I have some hardware laying around - headphones, e-reader - which is perfectly good, but part of me wants to replace it just because it would be much nicer to have USB-C everywhere instead of micro usb. I could see this as something which could significantly extend the lifetime of the hardware by removing those types of compatibility concerns.
- samstave 5y ago
  external dongles? Apple specifically did this to extend the revenue of their boxes. I cant stand apple any longer. Currently I prefer the HP Omen - (the support from the executive escalation support team is stellar). but the idea of needing a FN dongle whenever I want to do something is FN archaic. Plus they are over-priced, bulky and are much prone to ultimate failure of either the port (from flexing about when youre on a soft surface like a bed or something. I have Two AOC USB screens that I use - so I have one laptop, three screens and it all fits into my backpack. the external USB screens are the only "dongles" I want.
- crossroadsguy 5y ago
  I think this kind of thinking is what keeping Apple sailing high. Headphone jack gone? Get the AirPod. Oh BT drains the battery faster of already sub capacity battery? Why don’t you have a power bank yet? And yeah, keep it on you always. Isn’t that normal? Or Apple has a shiny battery pack. Maybe buy two. Glass back breaks? Well, you gotta lose something for wireless charging. But I don’t do wireless charging. Why not? Go buy another thing. There was this TV show and there was something like “happy to comply” in that.
- shapefrog 5y ago
  They are just recessed dongles.
- mirekrusin 5y ago
  It’s not only ports, you can have ssd there for example.
jbellis 5y ago
How is the state of linux power saving (i.e., mobile battery life) in 2021? Last time I checked you could expect to get almost 2x the battery life on equivalent hardware with Windows or Mac OS.
- TobTobXX 5y ago
  Can't comment on mobile, but I've set my laptop to sleep after 10min of inactivity and 3min after lid close and it lasts the whole day (4.1Ah). I'm not using it for 8h straight, but rather a combined 3h or sth probably but with this aggressive sleep settings it easily stretches some 8h and I don't feel afraid of it just going out at the end of the day.
- abdullahkhalids 5y ago
  When I bought my T440s in 2013 (8 years ago now), I could push it to 18 hours with wifi off. And could get 10 hours plus with wifi. I seriously doubt Windows or Mac OS would have gotten much more juice out of it.
  - ryantgtg 5y ago
    I currently use a T440S, with Arch Linux, and fairly recently replaced batteries. I feel like I only get 5 hours or so. Although if I’m on my work computer, with my T440s open next to me and I’m lightly using it throughout the day then it easily lasts all day, with like 30-40% remaining at the end of the workday. My biggest beef is that the replacement batteries these days seem bad - even brand new Lenovo brand ones degrade really fast. My assumption is that they’re not being manufactured anymore, and so a “new” battery is actually new old stock and has been sitting around for years. I am tempted to upgrade to a newer laptop.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      New batteries won't lose capacity over time. A lot of "new" batteries are just knockoffs, but there's no way of knowing without opening them. If you want good aftermarket batteries, KingSener has a solid reputation. Only go for aftermarket batteries that are upfront about being aftermarket and are open about the cells they use and well reviewed, or for sealed Lenovo batteries in original packaging. I recently bought a brand new, sealed 72Wh original battery. It sat sealed for so long the batteries went down below 3.1V per cell and the pack locked itself. Looking at the self discharge curves I'd expect this to be the case for any actually new battery. To make it work I had to open the battery and use a specialized charger to give it 0.1A of current until it got to 3.3V per cell, and I then programmed it to charge at 6A, after which the battery pack decided to start up.
kzrdude 5y ago
Their modular ports use a lot of space, they could have much more ports built in, unfortunately.
- teawrecks 5y ago
  No one wants all the different ports though, they usually just want the correct ports. If you're plugging more than 4 things into your laptop at once you should be using a dock.
  - kzrdude 5y ago
    Maybe a great laptop would have 4 usb-c, hdmi and sd card reader? We can be ambitious :)
  - yepguy 5y ago
    If Framework opens this up for other companies to make modules, you might also see something like a USB port module with an integrated Logitech wireless mouse receiver. So then your mouse isn't even taking up a port. I know Bluetooth is a thing but you get the point. All of those tiny devices that people keep plugged into their laptop ports 24/7? This is a much better form factor for them, and you don't necessarily need to sacrifice a port for them either.
    - tantony 5y ago
      > If Framework opens this up for other companies to make modules From what I can tell, they already did that: https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards > USB port module with an integrated Logitech wireless mouse receiver This guy seems to be making something like that (minus the USB port): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_uOzNt-xwY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_uOzNt-xwY People are working on some interesting stuff. Example: RP2040 expansion card: https://community.frame.work/t/rp2040-microcontroller-expansion-card/2487/15 https://community.frame.work/t/rp2040-microcontroller-expans... The engineers at framework seem to be very active on the forum engaging with the community.
  - 5y ago
dhosek 5y ago
My first laptop bought way back in 1993, had a scheme where either or both of the two(!) removable batteries could be replaced with a plug-in module. I had one that gave me a SCSI port and another that gave me a 2400 baud(!) modem. It was better in theory than practice. You couldn't hot-swap modules (because this was 1993, after all) and driver support was iffy. I sold that laptop a few years later and didn't own another laptop until I bought my first PowerBook in 2002. I've kept dongles in my bag from time to time for connecting to external monitors, but most of the time I never really bothered with it.
- r00fus 5y ago
  I did like my late-90s Dell Latitude where I could replace a CDROM module bay with a 2nd hard drive or battery. It was even hot-swap if I recall correctly. That said, these days I know exactly what I want in a laptop and most mid-spec+ laptops have an abundance of what 90% of users need.
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habeebtc 5y ago
How soon PCMCIA has been forgotten. Forgotten by hardware makers, forgotten by users. ...And Cardbus after it!
- techrat 5y ago
  Expresscard was supposed to replace it. It's literally a pin for pin pci express slot. But the "market" spoke (more like Apple decided they were too good for useful ports) and laptops got slimmer and less able to be expanded on.
- nikau 5y ago
  The cards were too thin - every IT department during that era had a box full of Xircom PCMCIA network cards with missing or broken rj45 dongles.
PolCPP 5y ago
How are thermals though? My xps 13 with 2 fans can get hot enough to be unconfortable, so i can't imagine how it will be with a single fan
- resonious 5y ago
  I really wish people talked about this stuff more when it comes to laptops. Hot temps and loud fans are a super turn-off for me. I'm willing to compromise performance for a quieter, cooler runtime, but usually all I can find out about a laptop is its processor clock speed and a horribly inaccurate battery life estimate.
  - spuz 5y ago
    Most of the laptops reviewed by Linus Tech Tips consider thermals and fan noise.
  - bodge5000 5y ago
    Loud fans and hot temps are fine for me, in isolation. But knowing those hot temps (and to a degree those loud fans) are slowly killing my laptop, and likely very quickly killing my battery, much faster than you'd imagine, yeh, it suddenly becomes a bigger priority. For me, I've never found a laptop as good as the older thinkpads at handling temps.
  - deergomoo 5y ago
    I had a 16" MacBook Pro that was so hot and loud all the time that I just couldn't stand it anymore and sold it to buy an M1 MacBook Air, which thankfully doesn't even have a fan. I don't understand how it didn't come up in any reviews, because you don't have to push it super hard to make it happen.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Computer thermals are weird. You can ultimately choose between a gimped device that stays cool under load or a spectacularly hot, dynamically clocked CPU. I normally cut the clock speed of my CPU in half with any new laptop, since I'm really only going to use it for text editing/SSH. That alone is good enough to lock it below 40c, but there are other ways to achieve a similar effect.
sundvor 5y ago
Rossmann was excited by it too: https://youtu.be/vQLws5KfntE https://youtu.be/vQLws5KfntE Very entertaining, and enlightening watch. (A comment on the initial part of the video: Lenovo's X1 Carbon Nano has good aspect ratio screen.)
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
Thank you early user, Hopefully people like you would make enough sound that manufacturers come to their senses and put 'Repairability' back on the feature set. It's not just the compute devices, I've been waiting for weeks for Samsung repair technician to arrive for fixing year old fridge. I remember going to showroom when I was a kid with my dad and the sales person used to pitch availability of parts, repair centers for the consumer electronic products.
dotancohen 5y ago
> absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch > of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change. This is great for multi-monitor users. Depending where in _my setup_ the other monitors are, I don't want the power and video cables, or docking port cable, to cover part of the external monitor. Being able to move the ports' locations is genius.
hobojones 5y ago
How does the touchpad perform? I'd love to move away from Apple, but don't want to spend the money on a laptop to be disappointed with that aspect. My experience with non-Apple touchpads has been sub-par so far (looking at you Dell), and it's one of the factors that keeps me ensconced in the Apple ecosystem.
- magicus 5y ago
  I am also wondering. I have seen lots of reviews on how cool the modularity and repairability is (and I love those things, too!), but not much about the day-to-day usefulness. Is the touchpad responsive? Functioning multitouch? Does the fingerprint sensor actually work? And of all these, the touchpad is by far the most important, and like you, keeps me to my Macbook.
samstave 5y ago
What is a 'blank keyboard'? What I LOVE about the Framework (don't have one yet) -- it hte "Cyberpunk-yness" of the thing.... Imagine the day when our kids are rummaging through a pile of various modules looking for just the right one to plug into their Deck. This, to me, truly feels like the "deck" from Neuromancer of olde! What will be great is once modules become a 3rd party aftermarket blast off.. Fiber interfaces, all sorts of other modules and the inevitable future HN post about fake dongles with spy-hardware from china, 'beware of keyloggers on foreign modules' etc... I hope that certain elements are attached by magnets. --- Can you directly attach two machines side-by-side with a USBC cable? What if you could chain multiple of these boxes together and have a second deck, which is headless and just swipe between the two desktops on the screen... One KB and Screen and two decks? I have always wanted this. I truly think its absurd that we havent yet been able to use machines like legos - I think that these decks offer a path to that with multiple decks.
forty 5y ago
It looks interesting, but isn't 4 a bit too few? My thinkpad has like 8-9 ports. Cannot they put 2 external port on a single module? Oh and also: where is Ethernet? :)
krater23 5y ago
Oh, don't worry, I had the same panel self refresh problem with my Dell on Windows.
deleted 5y ago
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ericpauley 5y ago

Maybe I need some convincing here. How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles (i.e., how Macs have been since 2016). To me the fact that the port attachments are recessed is little more than a gimmick. Especially as all of my devices have transitioned to USB-C anyway, dongles/"modular ports" feel more like a stopgap measure than one requiring a permanent form factor change.

s0rce 5y ago
I think the proliferation of usb-c has finally solved the universal port issue, you can just buy a 3rd party dongle with HDMI/displayport, usb-c (with pass through charging), sd-card, usb, etc. and it works great. Meets my needs pretty well.
fossuser 5y ago
Yeah - I think Apple's approach is the right tradeoff, though I admit I think it's cool from a nerd that likes gadgets perspective. If there's enough of a market for that that they can survive that's cool, but I think there's a reason it's not the default design (that isn't some cynical one about planned obsolescence).
- Jotra7 5y ago
  Too bad reality disagrees. It's entirely about planned obsolescence because Apple knows the rubes will buy anything they are told.
etbusch 5y ago
Two things: They are replaceable when the external ports (USB-C or otherwise) wear out without the need for soldering or internal board replacement. The design of the modules is open source, meaning that anyone can design a module that fits their needs.
- olah_1 5y ago
  how does a port “wear out”? i’ve never heard of that
  - AlfeG 5y ago
    It when You need to adjust cable multiple times until connection happen, and then work very careful to not move anything. Ports sometimes are very fragile. My old laptop has only 2 of 4 USB ports working.
  - scohesc 5y ago
    This was something that was more prominent during the Micro-USB era. The little metal "tabs" on the male end of microUSB connectors would start to wear out after a thousand+ plug/unplugs resulting in a loose connection that wasn't reliable. With USB-C, the connector was designed consideration of a bunch of factors, one of which I would assume is lifespan of the end connectors - USB-c has thicker, more resilient plastic hooks built into the inside of the male plug and stronger mating latches in the female end of the connector. https://www.quora.com/How-do-USB-cables-particularly-USB-C-stay-connected-to-their-devices https://www.quora.com/How-do-USB-cables-particularly-USB-C-s...
  - magicalhippo 5y ago
    Connectors are rated for a given number of connect/disconnect cycles. For USB-A it's a minimum of 1500[1]. If your laptop has a cheap connector which isn't rated for more, and you do two cycles a day (start/end of day, start/end lunch), then you'll go through the rated number of cycles in less than two years. Doesn't mean the connector will fail right away but it might start to act up. Connectors are not forever. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Durability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Durability
strix_varius 5y ago
I find it hilarious that we spend multiple thousands of dollars on sleek, elegant hardware and then hook up chunky plastic dongles to overcome their bad hardware interfaces. So I love the idea of these ports (agreed, they're basically "recessed dongles"). I couldn't lose them / forget them. They wouldn't take up space in my bag while I'm traveling. I could "set and forget" them to perfectly match whatever desktop / docking setup I'm using. In five years when my wireless VR system uses some as-yet-unknown hardware interface, I can swap a single component out to support it. Seems like brilliant design to me.
- EduardoBautista 5y ago
  I don't understand how this meme about "dongles" still exists. You know how I avoided using dongles? I just used USB-C cables. And for the very few things that don't have a detachable cable, I use a micro USB-C adapter. It's been several years since the release of the USB-C only MacBook Pros, this shouldn't be an issue if you put in a minimal amount of effort.
  - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
    HN bubble at work, right here. Some of my clients still have projectors with... vga ports. Then you need ethernet and hdmi of course, regularly in the corporate world or at your friends house. So yeah, dongle it is. USB-C dongle for sure, but still dongle.
    - EduardoBautista 5y ago
      There are cables for USB-C to VGA and HDMI, no dongle required. Ethernet, OK, I will give you that.
      - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
        I don't see how putting a cable in my backpack is going to be better than a dongle, and I'm certainly not going to a client for the first time then complain they don't have the right cable. Not to mention the dongle supports several ports. But you know what is better than either ? The framework laptop solution of letting me configure the port I want before going to my client.
mikenew 5y ago
I wouldn't think of them as recessed dongles. After installing them I haven't changed them out at all so far. It's more that you can configure things how you want. If you wanted 4 usb-c ports and that's all; just do that. I would love it if all my devices had transition to usb-c, but they haven't. I still occasionally need usb-a and sometimes I need an hdmi out. So... that's what I have. And if I stop needing usb-a I'll get rid of it and put in another usb-c. You could even do a single usb-c port and then 3 storage attachments if you wanted. Nobody is ever going to sell a laptop like that, but for someone who really needs storage and doesn't care about connectivity that might be perfect. If you're okay with dongles then you're probably fine. I'm not. They clutter up the workspace, occupy permanent space in my bag which is annoying, and often enough aren't around when I actually need them.
- andersonvom 5y ago
  It also goes a little bit beyond that: if one of your ports stops working (e.g. rust, water damage, etc), you can just buy a replacement port and you're back on track, as opposed to "welp, I guess I'll have to do without it..."
bo1024 5y ago
My devices aren't USB-C (e.g. headset, tablet) and I use HDMI cables a lot. So it's great for me. Turns out thanks to the modular port design it's also great for you!
BiteCode_dev 5y ago
Quite the opposite, it means you can start with plenty of usbA port, and when you don't need them anymore, switch them to usbc, without changing your laptop. It means when one port wears of, fixing it is easy, cheap, and doesn't immobilize your machine. It means you can change your port to fit an hdmi or ethernet as needed, without having the stuff coming out your laptop, all ugly and taking space on the desk.
matt_heimer 5y ago
The modular ports are my least favorite part as well. The fact that you have to buy one USB type c module just to be able to easily plug in your charger is crazy. Another just to have reachable USB port. Maybe 1 or 2 modular spots would be nice, but put in some standard type c ports and monitor connectors without having to pay an upcharge or include at least 2 type c modules free.
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  Is the "upcharge" actually significant for the USB C ports? It is like an extra $20 on a $1k computer.
  - matt_heimer 5y ago
    It has 4 type C ports, that's what the modules plug into. So the type C port module is basically a one inch extension cable. They do recommend you buy 4 so it's $80 and not $20. Having ANY upcharge to be able to have an expectedly reachable port to plug your laptop's power supply into seems like a design flaw. Unless they've done research that shows the type C port on the main board is a common point of failure and needs soldering to fix I don't see the point. I've had to clean lint out of ports but I've never broken a type C port on a computer.
    - CameronNemo 5y ago
      No the type C ports are $9 each, so it is less than $20 for two. You can reach the port without a module, but sure they could throw in one or two for free I guess. You should suggest that. I know users do not like to be nickel and dimed, and the two modules probably do not increase the BOM much. That said they may be planning for a situation where you bring your own modules or buy from a third party if you wish -- it is an open design after all. Consider the enterprise use case. An org could have a batch of USB-C modules for replacement that they source from a third party for a cheap price, and then order the laptops themselves on demand. Framework is all about reducing waste, so only giving users what they ask for is part of that.
xur17 5y ago
The main advantage is that the dongles are all built into your laptop. With dongles I have a pile of them in my bag (that takes up more room), I have to remember to carry them around with me if I'm in a conference room, etc.
paxys 5y ago
The modular port is a universal port with dongles. Except that (1) it doesn't take extra space outside of your computer, (2) it is cheaper than mainstream dongles (Apple sells USB-C to HDMI for $70 while the Framework HDMI expansion is $20), and (3) it is fully open source and you can actually print/sell your own.
- nomel 5y ago
  > Apple sells USB-C to HDMI for $70 Luckily, USB-C means you don't have to buy any accessory from Apple, and have the world of low cost peripherals at your disposal, like the $13 version on Amazon [1]. 1. https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/ref=pa_sp_atf_aps_sr_pg1_1?ie=UTF8&adId=A00361433IK3OF4YHR41P&url=%2FAdapter-QGeeM-Thunderbolt-Compatible-Pixelbook%2Fdp%2FB07JW7GT7H%2Fref%3Dsr_1_2_sspa%3Fdchild%3D1%26keywords%3Dusb-c%2Bto%2Bhdmi%2Bmac%26qid%3D1632254361%26sr%3D8-2-spons%26psc%3D1%26smid%3DA13X8I731GDUWB&qualifier=1632254361&id=2864652438586679&widgetName=sp_atf https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/re...
  - glandium 5y ago
    The main downside is that you don't know what you get on Amazon (and I say that as someone who bought DisplayPort cables on Amazon that turned out to have the pin 20 problem http://monitorinsider.com/displayport/dp_pin20_controversy.html http://monitorinsider.com/displayport/dp_pin20_controversy.h...).
    - chrischen 5y ago
      Usb c means i can just buy the framework one to use.
  - sbierwagen 5y ago
    And how many different $13 cables and hundreds of fake reviews do you have to wade through before you find one that works? Efficient markets hypothesis. Apple's cable costs $70 because it's guaranteed to work.
charwalker 5y ago
The modularity means you can change your workflow or peripherals without needing to find a dock or dongles long term. You can travel with the HDMI dongle in for putting a movie on a hotel TV or use with an external monitor somewhere. Maybe you need that SD card reader for most of your photo work but only on weekends or trips when you go process images immediately or need to offload them from the SD card. Regardless, the port can be what you need it to be or just a useful USB-C, you aren't tied to whatever ports the OEM thinks you'll need forever even though it may only be valued by a small number of consumers. That small number is still enough to drive sales for FrameWork. I'm interested if I need a better laptop and I sit at a desk with desktop in use almost all the time. This appeals to those that interested in more control over their device in configuration, expansion or modifications, and the various ports and IO options. I can't say I'd buy many of the USB modules (rarely would use most anyway) but the mentality is there and I so far have trust in the product. It's not meant to appeal to GAMERS or Enterprise execs, just those that want more control over their devices.
Osiris 5y ago
My understanding is that all the module ports ARE USB-C. So the dongles are just made to fit inside the laptop instead of outside.
earthscienceman 5y ago
I'll give a reply not seen here yet. I haven't bought the framework laptop (yet) but I can see the module appeal. There's all sorts of hacker-ish ideas that I could imagine stuffing in there and the fact that I don't need a dongle means they're always attached and ready to be thrown in a bag. My first idea: Framework offers a 1Tb storage module for their ports! I backup my root OS via ZFS snapshot to USB every so often now. How great would it be to have a storage port that's all the recent snapshots of your important datasets. And, the possibilities are endless. The fact that they don't change the form factor of the laptop and that they're always attached is actually a big deal.
rhacker 5y ago
Absolutely agree. If I ever had to go back to a "docking station" which I'm sure many on here have used in the past I'd be ripping out my hair. A single multi-port dongle with Hdmi, extension USB-C and USB-A makes it so that I connect 1 thing to my laptop at my desk. And you don't have to press the whole laptop on some weird device that can scrape that back of your laptop. If more people had experienced docking stations of 10 years ago they would also be excited for these dongles.
lr1970 5y ago
> How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles ... At least the "modular port" adapters are not dangling from the side of a laptop as the dongles do. Dongles totally ruin the esthetics of otherwise slick MacBook for me.
whywhywhywhy 5y ago
Have you tried dongles? They barely work. I beg for an age where monitors and drives plugged into Macbooks worked again without flickering and random disconnects you get with dongles.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  These are literally USB-C to X dongles. You may prefer them to be integrated, but they won't solve any compatibility issues.
tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
What upsets me about the solution is that the whole laptop is limited to 4 ports. They don't even offer the obvious "2 in 1" dongles where one dongle would contain e.g. two USB-A ports. Many other laptops aren't modular - but they offer more than enough ports to make up for it. You need at least 1 USB-C port for charging. If you want to be able to use an external mouse and keyboard without a hub, that's 2 USB-A ports that you need. That leaves you the choice between having one USB-C port OR HDMI for the last port. There isn't even an Ethernet option at all. And you still get the potential downsides of the ports being adapters from USB-C, if I understand correctly. If you grab a Lenovo P14s, you can't swap one of the two RAM sticks (limiting you to 48 GB), opening it takes a little bit more work, and replacing some of the more integrated components is going to be harder (SSD is trivial). In exchange, you get 2x USB-A, 2x USB-C, HDMI, MicroSD, and full-sized (not flip-out/break-off) Ethernet. Plus an optional built-in smartcard reader, plus some proprietary docking port extension around one of the USB-C ports. Looking at the Gen 2, you can get that at around 3/4 of the price with a similar or better config (including a somewhat serious GPU) as long as you order on the weekend (when Lenovo's non-ripoff pricing is in effect), and you can also add a fingerprint reader and NFC if you want. The Framework laptop has upgradeable RAM, but you will have to upgrade it yourself (discarding the RAM that comes with it) if you want more than 32 GB, and no matter what, it won't ever support more than 64 GB. Is supporting at most 64 GB really that much better than a laptop with 64 GB soldered in? By the time you want to upgrade the CPU, the mainboard won't be compatible, so what's really there to upgrade?
- theschmed 5y ago
  I don't agree with most of your points, but I do (at least on initial review) agree with this: > They don't even offer the obvious "2 in 1" dongles where one dongle would contain e.g. two USB-A ports. I would have thought that by making the expansion ports slightly wider, including 2 USB-A would be possible. At my side gig running livestreams, I often end up with more than 4 USB-A devices connected, unfortunately, so with USB-C charging and HDMI, I'd need a dongle to use this device even with such a 2x USB-A expansion. - USB-A dongle for wireless mouse - External USB-A sound card (to connect the mixer board) - External USB-A camera - External USB-A flash drive to load up PowerPoints etc provided by the presenter - ... and then maybe I need to plug in my USB-A Yubikey to authenticate. Or a 2nd flash drive. That said, using a USB-C hub/dongle for cases like mine isn't the end of the world.
NikolaNovak 5y ago
I assume if all your devices are usb c you realistically have no horse in this game - and that's great. For those who have different needs than vendor provides - permanent or temporary - recessed or not, or in other words part of computer or something I need to carry/lose/forget/misplace can be a huge huge difference.
bastardoperator 5y ago
I don't get it either. I dock my MacBook and my monitor supports USB-C which also provides power and a bunch of other standard USB connections. I don't even really need a dongle anymore.
dannyw 5y ago
Different users want different ports. For example, as a photographer, I need a SD card slot. No, my workflow hasn’t transitioned to 100% USB c. I doubt it will. I will always want to plug in a HDMI monitor sometime for example. No, I refuse to use products that require me to carry and lose shitty dongles and hubs. I refuse. That’s also why I’ve never purchased a phone without a headphone jack, because I love listening to music on my Moondrops or whatever IEMs I like.
necovek 5y ago
I would say it's quite similar to having a touch device with an integrated pen holder where pen disappears in the device (so it can't fall out) and not. It is a "gimmick", but if you are frequently shuffling your laptop around, having a bag clear of dongles and "floating" stuff is a world of difference. I mean, even thinness in laptops is a gimmick (it's actually the first thing I'd do away with to get maintainability, battery life and better cooling/performance/noise — fanless, anyone?), but it sells like hot cakes.
kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
When a port is damaged it can be easily and affordably replaced.
eecc 5y ago
Being recessed means you can leave them inserted while carrying the device. Dongles significantly spoil the portability experience.
_ph_ 5y ago
The thing is, that the dongles are integrated into the laptop body. For a portable machine, this is huge. I love my 16" MB pro and do think that 4x USB-C is great for connectivity, but having to carry up to 4 dongles with me any time I move between working at home and the office is pretty much a nightmare. The built-in dongle ports, if you might call them that, are a much more elegant solution - somthing Apple should have invented (and could have sold for a lot of money). On top of that, they seem to provide even more "dongles" than laptop ports out of the box. It is also probably mechanically much more robust, if you plug cables into your dongle box instead of into the (motherboard mounted) port directly. If one of the dongle boxes breaks, it should be cheap to exchange.
skohan 5y ago
The thing about dongles is you don't always have it with you. The biggest change I noticed when I got a USB-C based mac is that I couldn't just plug it into every projector through the HDMI, so I had to start planning ahead more. Same with getting photos off of an SSD card Abstracting the ports makes a ton of sense. I have some hardware laying around - headphones, e-reader - which is perfectly good, but part of me wants to replace it just because it would be much nicer to have USB-C everywhere instead of micro usb. I could see this as something which could significantly extend the lifetime of the hardware by removing those types of compatibility concerns.
samstave 5y ago
external dongles? Apple specifically did this to extend the revenue of their boxes. I cant stand apple any longer. Currently I prefer the HP Omen - (the support from the executive escalation support team is stellar). but the idea of needing a FN dongle whenever I want to do something is FN archaic. Plus they are over-priced, bulky and are much prone to ultimate failure of either the port (from flexing about when youre on a soft surface like a bed or something. I have Two AOC USB screens that I use - so I have one laptop, three screens and it all fits into my backpack. the external USB screens are the only "dongles" I want.
crossroadsguy 5y ago
I think this kind of thinking is what keeping Apple sailing high. Headphone jack gone? Get the AirPod. Oh BT drains the battery faster of already sub capacity battery? Why don’t you have a power bank yet? And yeah, keep it on you always. Isn’t that normal? Or Apple has a shiny battery pack. Maybe buy two. Glass back breaks? Well, you gotta lose something for wireless charging. But I don’t do wireless charging. Why not? Go buy another thing. There was this TV show and there was something like “happy to comply” in that.
shapefrog 5y ago
They are just recessed dongles.
mirekrusin 5y ago
It’s not only ports, you can have ssd there for example.

jbellis 5y ago

How is the state of linux power saving (i.e., mobile battery life) in 2021? Last time I checked you could expect to get almost 2x the battery life on equivalent hardware with Windows or Mac OS.

TobTobXX 5y ago
Can't comment on mobile, but I've set my laptop to sleep after 10min of inactivity and 3min after lid close and it lasts the whole day (4.1Ah). I'm not using it for 8h straight, but rather a combined 3h or sth probably but with this aggressive sleep settings it easily stretches some 8h and I don't feel afraid of it just going out at the end of the day.
abdullahkhalids 5y ago
When I bought my T440s in 2013 (8 years ago now), I could push it to 18 hours with wifi off. And could get 10 hours plus with wifi. I seriously doubt Windows or Mac OS would have gotten much more juice out of it.
- ryantgtg 5y ago
  I currently use a T440S, with Arch Linux, and fairly recently replaced batteries. I feel like I only get 5 hours or so. Although if I’m on my work computer, with my T440s open next to me and I’m lightly using it throughout the day then it easily lasts all day, with like 30-40% remaining at the end of the workday. My biggest beef is that the replacement batteries these days seem bad - even brand new Lenovo brand ones degrade really fast. My assumption is that they’re not being manufactured anymore, and so a “new” battery is actually new old stock and has been sitting around for years. I am tempted to upgrade to a newer laptop.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    New batteries won't lose capacity over time. A lot of "new" batteries are just knockoffs, but there's no way of knowing without opening them. If you want good aftermarket batteries, KingSener has a solid reputation. Only go for aftermarket batteries that are upfront about being aftermarket and are open about the cells they use and well reviewed, or for sealed Lenovo batteries in original packaging. I recently bought a brand new, sealed 72Wh original battery. It sat sealed for so long the batteries went down below 3.1V per cell and the pack locked itself. Looking at the self discharge curves I'd expect this to be the case for any actually new battery. To make it work I had to open the battery and use a specialized charger to give it 0.1A of current until it got to 3.3V per cell, and I then programmed it to charge at 6A, after which the battery pack decided to start up.

kzrdude 5y ago

Their modular ports use a lot of space, they could have much more ports built in, unfortunately.

teawrecks 5y ago
No one wants all the different ports though, they usually just want the correct ports. If you're plugging more than 4 things into your laptop at once you should be using a dock.
- kzrdude 5y ago
  Maybe a great laptop would have 4 usb-c, hdmi and sd card reader? We can be ambitious :)
- yepguy 5y ago
  If Framework opens this up for other companies to make modules, you might also see something like a USB port module with an integrated Logitech wireless mouse receiver. So then your mouse isn't even taking up a port. I know Bluetooth is a thing but you get the point. All of those tiny devices that people keep plugged into their laptop ports 24/7? This is a much better form factor for them, and you don't necessarily need to sacrifice a port for them either.
  - tantony 5y ago
    > If Framework opens this up for other companies to make modules From what I can tell, they already did that: https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards > USB port module with an integrated Logitech wireless mouse receiver This guy seems to be making something like that (minus the USB port): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_uOzNt-xwY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_uOzNt-xwY People are working on some interesting stuff. Example: RP2040 expansion card: https://community.frame.work/t/rp2040-microcontroller-expansion-card/2487/15 https://community.frame.work/t/rp2040-microcontroller-expans... The engineers at framework seem to be very active on the forum engaging with the community.
- 5y ago

dhosek 5y ago

My first laptop bought way back in 1993, had a scheme where either or both of the two(!) removable batteries could be replaced with a plug-in module. I had one that gave me a SCSI port and another that gave me a 2400 baud(!) modem. It was better in theory than practice. You couldn't hot-swap modules (because this was 1993, after all) and driver support was iffy. I sold that laptop a few years later and didn't own another laptop until I bought my first PowerBook in 2002. I've kept dongles in my bag from time to time for connecting to external monitors, but most of the time I never really bothered with it.

r00fus 5y ago
I did like my late-90s Dell Latitude where I could replace a CDROM module bay with a 2nd hard drive or battery. It was even hot-swap if I recall correctly. That said, these days I know exactly what I want in a laptop and most mid-spec+ laptops have an abundance of what 90% of users need.
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habeebtc 5y ago

How soon PCMCIA has been forgotten. Forgotten by hardware makers, forgotten by users. ...And Cardbus after it!

techrat 5y ago
Expresscard was supposed to replace it. It's literally a pin for pin pci express slot. But the "market" spoke (more like Apple decided they were too good for useful ports) and laptops got slimmer and less able to be expanded on.
nikau 5y ago
The cards were too thin - every IT department during that era had a box full of Xircom PCMCIA network cards with missing or broken rj45 dongles.

PolCPP 5y ago

How are thermals though? My xps 13 with 2 fans can get hot enough to be unconfortable, so i can't imagine how it will be with a single fan

resonious 5y ago
I really wish people talked about this stuff more when it comes to laptops. Hot temps and loud fans are a super turn-off for me. I'm willing to compromise performance for a quieter, cooler runtime, but usually all I can find out about a laptop is its processor clock speed and a horribly inaccurate battery life estimate.
- spuz 5y ago
  Most of the laptops reviewed by Linus Tech Tips consider thermals and fan noise.
- bodge5000 5y ago
  Loud fans and hot temps are fine for me, in isolation. But knowing those hot temps (and to a degree those loud fans) are slowly killing my laptop, and likely very quickly killing my battery, much faster than you'd imagine, yeh, it suddenly becomes a bigger priority. For me, I've never found a laptop as good as the older thinkpads at handling temps.
- deergomoo 5y ago
  I had a 16" MacBook Pro that was so hot and loud all the time that I just couldn't stand it anymore and sold it to buy an M1 MacBook Air, which thankfully doesn't even have a fan. I don't understand how it didn't come up in any reviews, because you don't have to push it super hard to make it happen.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Computer thermals are weird. You can ultimately choose between a gimped device that stays cool under load or a spectacularly hot, dynamically clocked CPU. I normally cut the clock speed of my CPU in half with any new laptop, since I'm really only going to use it for text editing/SSH. That alone is good enough to lock it below 40c, but there are other ways to achieve a similar effect.

sundvor 5y ago

Rossmann was excited by it too: https://youtu.be/vQLws5KfntE https://youtu.be/vQLws5KfntE Very entertaining, and enlightening watch. (A comment on the initial part of the video: Lenovo's X1 Carbon Nano has good aspect ratio screen.)

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

Thank you early user, Hopefully people like you would make enough sound that manufacturers come to their senses and put 'Repairability' back on the feature set. It's not just the compute devices, I've been waiting for weeks for Samsung repair technician to arrive for fixing year old fridge. I remember going to showroom when I was a kid with my dad and the sales person used to pitch availability of parts, repair centers for the consumer electronic products.

dotancohen 5y ago

> absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch > of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change. This is great for multi-monitor users. Depending where in _my setup_ the other monitors are, I don't want the power and video cables, or docking port cable, to cover part of the external monitor. Being able to move the ports' locations is genius.

hobojones 5y ago

How does the touchpad perform? I'd love to move away from Apple, but don't want to spend the money on a laptop to be disappointed with that aspect. My experience with non-Apple touchpads has been sub-par so far (looking at you Dell), and it's one of the factors that keeps me ensconced in the Apple ecosystem.

magicus 5y ago
I am also wondering. I have seen lots of reviews on how cool the modularity and repairability is (and I love those things, too!), but not much about the day-to-day usefulness. Is the touchpad responsive? Functioning multitouch? Does the fingerprint sensor actually work? And of all these, the touchpad is by far the most important, and like you, keeps me to my Macbook.

samstave 5y ago

What is a 'blank keyboard'? What I LOVE about the Framework (don't have one yet) -- it hte "Cyberpunk-yness" of the thing.... Imagine the day when our kids are rummaging through a pile of various modules looking for just the right one to plug into their Deck. This, to me, truly feels like the "deck" from Neuromancer of olde! What will be great is once modules become a 3rd party aftermarket blast off.. Fiber interfaces, all sorts of other modules and the inevitable future HN post about fake dongles with spy-hardware from china, 'beware of keyloggers on foreign modules' etc... I hope that certain elements are attached by magnets. --- Can you directly attach two machines side-by-side with a USBC cable? What if you could chain multiple of these boxes together and have a second deck, which is headless and just swipe between the two desktops on the screen... One KB and Screen and two decks? I have always wanted this. I truly think its absurd that we havent yet been able to use machines like legos - I think that these decks offer a path to that with multiple decks.

forty 5y ago

It looks interesting, but isn't 4 a bit too few? My thinkpad has like 8-9 ports. Cannot they put 2 external port on a single module? Oh and also: where is Ethernet? :)

krater23 5y ago

Oh, don't worry, I had the same panel self refresh problem with my Dell on Windows.

deleted 5y ago

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