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GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars
- dylan604 5y agoThis so reminds me of Barry Seals asking people to stand back everytime he started his car.
- flerchin 5y agoIs there a lawsuit to make GM take back the cars? This is ridiculous.
- arsome 5y agoThey've already done a recall. This is a temporary measure until the batteries can be replaced, however this article does mention they are buying some back apparently.
- Armisael16 5y agoGM issued a recall for all bolts a month ago.
- renewiltord 5y agoRight, but if you’re unfamiliar with car terminology, “recall” means “error we will fix”. So it doesn’t mean they’ll buy it back, just that you’re entitled to a manufacturer fix at their cost when they have availability. Some Bolt folks want a buyback. Seems unlikely.
- turtlebits 5y agoA recall is worthless until the manufacturer can actually fix the issue. The first recall was in Nov 2020 but my car (2018 MY) wasn't eligible for the fix until August 2021. I'm fairly certain it's going to take years for GM to replace all the batteries.
- rootusrootus 5y agoI expect it is a very real possibility that my lease will run out on my 2020 Bolt before they have a battery pack for it. Almost exactly two years left.
- pavon 5y agoGM has bought back the cars of many owners who have asked, but not all. While GM may have drug their feet on buy-backs early on I doubt they would let any individual request get to the point of a lawsuit before changing their mind.
- dmurray 5y ago> The automaker told Bolt owners to limit the charge to 90 percent, plug in more frequently and avoid depleting the battery to below about 70 miles of remaining range. Tesla's approach here would be to issue an OTA update that told your car to treat 90% as 100% and 25% as 0. I can't decide if I like that better or worse.
- lacksconfidence 5y agoAs long as it included messaging and an admission of fault, that seems significantly safer for the general populace.
- raman162 5y agoI think there's the 5 second cool factor but after that novelty you're probably just as disgruntled as the fact that you lost 35% of the range for your car. I hope the Chevy bolt is a rare case and stories like this don't pop up with the other upcoming electric vehicles. The new lightning F150 looks very attractive.
- rsj_hn 5y agoI heard really good things about the EV mustang from Ford. I wouldn't take this to be representative of EVs in general, but rather a remark on GM.
- dylan604 5y agoIs it GM or LG for making bunk batteries? TFA clearly states that GM believes they will be recouping this money from LG.
- clouddrover 5y agoBoth really. The problem is supposed to have been caused by misaligned robots at LG's factories: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/08/misaligned-factory-robot-may-have-sparked-chevy-bolt-battery-fires/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/08/misaligned-factory-robo... But the fault of both GM and LG is that they weren't able to detect the problem sooner.
- ErikAugust 5y agohttp://trimread.org/articles/1603 http://trimread.org/articles/1603
- NotSammyHagar 5y agoAnd do not taunt your cars, or they may blow up. Tesla has had a very number of problems but imagine if this is where we got with them after a few years out in the market. There might not even be an EV industry right now.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- sleepytimetea 5y agoI would think the well publicized early failures of large Lithium ion battery technology (787 burning down while docked at a gate, the various Tesla fires and Samsung Note phones being banned from planes) would have taught enough lessons to eliminate these risks in the future. I haven't dug into the details of the "manufacturing defect" at LG's battery plants - seems like a failure in Quality Control. I also don't know why GM cannot just bring in the battery packs and test/replace the faulty cells, unless the problem is so widespread it affects ALL cells in all packs.
- scardycat 5y agoThey did try replacing faulty cells and modules before the full recall, even though other manufacturers using the same LG cells were doing a full recall and replace. They also tried software fixes. I dont know enough to understand why it did not work.
- mastazi 5y agoProbably the replacement program and the associated logistics were too expensive and the recall was an easier solution in terms of costs/benefits. Not sure about the PR costs this will cause though.
- cptskippy 5y agoThey identified 2 defects and both defects were occurring in cells produced at multiple factories. That implies the defects were part of the process and not simply and issue with the setup of a single manufacturing line. It also implies that potentially all cells manufactured could have the defects.
- epistasis 5y agoI've heard that this is the reason that all the future major lithium ion companies have already been founded. Learning all the really hard lessons about QC and how to prevent fires and defects takes more experience and knowledge and time than any new competitor could devote to catching up.
- ksm1717 5y agoThe Chevy volt model as established in the early 2010s is an arm and a leg beyond the next closest competitor in the electric automobile space and this is a smirch upon its namespace
- reducesuffering 5y agoWhy is the Volt an "arm and a leg beyond" a Model 3?
- ksm1717 5y agoPrice and panel gaps
- epistasis 5y agoThe panel gaps and misalignment ive seen online for Teslas are still better than the general fit and finish issues that plague every single GM car I been in. Massive chunks of messy rubber foam, obvious joiners, bad internal panels... Maybe Tesla is not as tight as BMW, but it is definitely better than GM.
- Alupis 5y agoThe Bolt isn't priced like a BMW though, while the Tesla is. Even the Model 3, with it's base price of $35k, runs you around $50k after choosing a color and adding the FSD package. For a $50,000 car, they are really not built well, quality-wise. The Bolt, with every bell and whistle selected, runs about $37,000, for comparison.
- ksm1717 5y agoEyes on the ball. Bolt is a beat car. We are talking Volt and Tesla. I agree with your sentiment regardless
- reducesuffering 5y agoThis discussion was about the Volt, Chevy's old PHEV (plug in), not the Bolt EV.
- qbasic_forever 5y agoSo what is a family with a two car garage supposed to do, park the Bolt a block away? This seems like the kind of thing GM should get wayyyy in front of with a very generous offer to buy back the cars as a trade towards another GM model.
- dylan604 5y agoPark outside the garage in the driveway, or next to your neighbor's car that won't return your mower they borrowed six weeks ago.
- rjmunro 5y ago> Park outside the garage in the driveway That only works if your driveway is >=100ft long.
- jethro_tell 5y agowhat about those of us thay have our car parked next to a bolt on the street. 100 feet is 5 parking spaces give or take.
- cpuguy83 5y agoPeople park their car in their garage?
- tkinom 5y agoFor the few folks that doesn't live in SF, maybe?
- cellularmitosis 5y agoEveryone knows the garage is for storing the treadmill you never use.
- ksm1717 5y agoSell the other car Edit: or get a rubber car to counteract
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- wyager 5y agoReminder that CA is planning to ban ICE vehicles by 2035: https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/governor-newsom-announces-california-will-phase-out-gasoline-powered-cars-drastically-reduce-demand-for-fossil-fuel-in-californias-fight-against-climate-change/ https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/governor-newsom-announces-... Do you feel ready for that? I don’t…
- reducesuffering 5y agoBanning NEW* ICE vehicles, where medium and heavy duty vehicles are still by 2045. Honestly we need to push that up a decade by atleast phasing out non-hybrids. Still have people buying and factories making 15mpg Dodge Challengers that will be running the next 20 years, when they can afford the zero emission alternatives...
- ineedasername 5y agoThat's insane. For (probably) a majority of owners it makes the car unusable if you adhere to that restriction. If I had one then I would have nowhere to park it. Certainly not at work. And at home with once car in the driveway and another in front of the house they couldn't be 50 feet apart. In tightly packed houses even one driveway to the next isn't 50 feet apart. If you went shopping and we're lucky enough to manage to find a space 50 feet away, there's no guarantee someone wouldn't park closer, though I can't even think of a place I go where finding such a spot in the first place is at all likely.
- willcipriano 5y agoThe idea isn't getting you to adhere to it, the idea is when inevitably one of these ends up incinerating a national forest or a home for orphans, GM can say "We told you to park 50 feet away, if only you hadn't been negligent and followed our simple directions!" rather than "So sorry about that"
- ineedasername 5y agoAh, yes that makes sense. The "thoughts & prayers" approach.
- jerome-jh 5y agoYeh that's completely insane and irresponsible, but we're getting kind of used to that sort of thing.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y agoI mean, that's just the tip of the iceberg: > The Bolt normally can go 259 miles on a charge, but that has been limited by GM’s guidance to avoid a fire. The automaker told Bolt owners to limit the charge to 90 percent, plug in more frequently and avoid depleting the battery to below about 70 miles of remaining range. They’re also advised to park their vehicles outside immediately after charging and not leave them charging indoors overnight. So instead of 259 miles of charge, it's about 163 miles of charge. Oh, and don't leave your car in your own garage after charging. Tough pill to swallow, I'm a Volt owner and I love that car, but couldn't blame anyone for them being soured on GM after that.
- Animats 5y agoMaybe lithium-ion batteries in mass-market vehicles aren't such a good idea. We may need a battery technology that can survive poor maintenance less than perfect battery construction, and low-cost vehicle designs. Tesla had to put a titanium plate under their battery. That's not a mass-market solution. BYD is converting over to lithium iron phosphate, which is much better behaved when damaged. Toyota is working on solid state batteries, which hopefully don't catch fire. The NYFD reports over 55 electric bike and scooter fires so far this year.[1] Two deaths, 60 injuries, including 18 firefighters. Fires destroying electric bike shops are a thing, with one fire expanding to all the batteries around. All we need now is for a cascade auto battery fire in a parking lot. Or, worst case, a garage under a building. Boosted skateboards used to use lithium iron phosphate, but were just too expensive. [1] https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-e-bike-scooter-fires-fatalities-fdny-20210813-otyebxidsne2vltv446y4ir62u-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-e-bike-sco...
- weaksauce 5y agomight want to put it into context though... there are on average 160,000 passenger car fires per year and about 360 deaths due to that. i'd like to see that figure broken down per 100k miles driven or per 100k cars of the type but i can't seem to find that easily. https://www.nfpa.org/vehiclefires https://www.nfpa.org/vehiclefires
- bubbleRefuge 5y agoHow many of those are with the car off and at rest ?
- OJFord 5y agoIs that actually relevant though, or just an implementation detail? Perhaps you could argue a moving car seems more potentially hazardous? But then that's only learned from extant behaviour anyway?
- sbierwagen 5y ago
- giantg2 5y agoMy understanding is that GM will replace the battery within 3 years, right? Seems like a good time to buy a cheap electric car at a discount from someone who is (understandably) impatient.
- 01100011 5y agoI'm assuming a friend's 2019 Bolt lease so I can try electric for a bit without much commitment. Once the replacement happens I can buy it for $21k, which seems like an alright deal on an electric with a fresh battery pack. Then again, that might be kind of high when you consider the subsidies I could get on a new EV. I'll see how the economics of the deal play out in a year when the lease is up.
- rootusrootus 5y ago> I can buy it for $21k FWIW, when I leased my Bolt one year ago, I could have bought it outright for $23K. The residual on my car is not much below that. I obviously won't buy it at the end of the lease -- GM just released new Bolts based on essentially the same technology they started using in 2017, which is mediocre by current EV standards; so they will have to continue to be very competitive on price going forward. Just saying I think you should look carefully at the market when the lease runs out, it may not be economically advantageous to buy it out.
- 01100011 5y agoYeah I'm going to play it by ear. If the inflation continues and prices permanently rise, $21k may be a good deal. We also might get close to the release of the Tesla Model 2 by then, along with a bunch of Chinese EV imports, so I'll definitely shop around. I'm personally looking for a 'low end' EV as I will absolutely at no time ever need more than 100 miles of range, and probably much less most of the time. My commute is looking like 45 miles/week once we return to the office, so there's not much point in paying for more than that.
- micromacrofoot 5y agoCorrect, they're planning on replacing them but it will take a while to build the batteries and do all the swaps.
- artemist 5y agoLuckily we have a solution to the huge issues with batteries and we've had it since 1883: overhead wires. Not practical with cars but cars aren't practical in a societal sense in cities (too much pollution, even from electric cars, take far too much sates, too much noise, etc.)
- taurath 5y agoMy perception of American designed and engineered vehicles is that they’re really awful, not just from a reliability standpoint but also from a user interface standpoint. GM, Ford, and Chrysler haven’t been building good vehicles in my lifetime - once I switched to Hondas I’ve yet to have any serious engine trouble even in some very old vehicles, whereas every American car I’ve owned has been a money sink. Of course OPMMV, but I’d rather get a Hyundai or Kia nowadays than anything Detroit puts out. Touchscreens everywhere, actually horrible tech branded as being the second coming, vent positions that make no sense. I’m excited for all the EV models to choose from in the upcoming years but news stories like this make me think it’s gonna be the same old story - an absolute lack of inspiration, mechanical and engineering rigor, and a lot like the USA the staunch belief that in the end it somehow must still be the best despite all evidence to the contrary.
- alex504 5y ago> GM has said the fires are a rare event and are the result of two uncommon defects that stem from a manufacturing problem in LG’s plants in Michigan and South Korea.
- taurath 5y agoRecommending people park 50 feet away from other vehicles to me means that’s not rare enough IMO.
- TulliusCicero 5y agoBut it's not the GM-made part of the car that's failing here, it's the LG-made batteries.
- taurath 5y agoAnd totally understand the sentiment, but Foxxcon isn’t blamed if iPhones start to fail left and right, Apple is. The people branding the car are responsible for their supply chain.
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- notJim 5y agoThe flammability of lithium batteries kind of freaks me out. I hope we get to non-flammable batteries soon. Imagine a future where every car in a dense parking garage is lithium BEV, and then one of them catches fire. As far as I know, these fires are extremely difficult to put out, requiring enormous amounts of water. What if the fire spreads to many other cars? I'm not sure if this fear is at all rational. Probably not.
- coldtea 5y ago>The flammability of lithium batteries kind of freaks me out. On the other hand, around 2035 when most cars are EVs, the Hollywood action movie car "explosions on impact" would finally be a realistic description of actual car behavior.
- ricardobeat 5y agoOf course Hollywood exaggerates for effect, but it's a myth that cars never blow up on impact. There is fuel flowing around and plenty of chances to ignite it. Like this one from today: https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/poskib/speeding_texting_youre_an_idiot/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/poskib/speedi...
- rootusrootus 5y ago> I hope we get to non-flammable batteries soon There are options already. LFP is significantly less fire-prone, and LTO is even less fire-prone than that. LFP doesn't have quite the same energy density, though it is relatively close, and improving.
- nickik 5y agoCheck out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgAaB7fsSbo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgAaB7fsSbo Safety can and will be improved quite a bit even of current batteries. And newer chemistries will do better anyway.
- ourmandave 5y agoThank you for renewing your auto policy with Acme Insurance. As a Bolt owner your new 6 month premium is $1,200,000.
- teitoklien 5y agoEnjoy your new insurance and Have a great day !
- adamredwoods 5y agoBummer. I thought nickel was suppose to be better at handling these fire issues? As consumers, should we be waiting to see when CATL's sodium batteries are arriving? https://www.reuters.com/technology/chinas-top-ev-battery-maker-catl-touts-new-sodium-ion-batteries-2021-07-29/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/chinas-top-ev-battery-mak...
- jeffbee 5y agoIf we could get this written into the law for all cars, that would make city life a lot better. No more than 100 parked cars per acre.
- blondie9x 5y agoBattery scooters, bikes, skateboards, wakeboards, hoverboards, one wheels. I know these make getting around easier but we have a huge obesity problem on our hands. Why can't we help people exercise a bit more and reduce the amount of batteries we are using as substitutes for burning calories? As for electric cars we need to make sure the software enforces safe charging practices. If there is a safety issue and the software on the vehicles doesn't prevent that behavior it should regardless of features being lost.
- drewg123 5y agoIf I was a big automaker with a huge investment in internal combustion engines and I wanted to instill FUD around electric cars, this is exactly how I'd do it.
- robotbikes 5y agoThat is kind of an expensive way to accomplish this task.
- trhway 5y agoeven much more larger/expensive operation of GM squashing electric streetcars https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-06-03/be-careful-how-you-refer-to-the-so-called-great-american-streetcar-scandal https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-06-03/be-carefu...
- protomyth 5y agoI suppose this "Another recalled Chevy Bolt parked indoors catches fire in Georgia" https://www.autoblog.com/2021/09/15/chevy-bolt-garage-fire/ https://www.autoblog.com/2021/09/15/chevy-bolt-garage-fire/ isn't going to help.
- rootusrootus 5y agoThe only positive there is that at least the car didn't burn to the frame before they got it put out. And the amount of water they used to quench it doesn't seem like any more than a regular fire. Edit: What an interesting house, very unique design and lots of built-ins. Says Scandinavian Farmhouse, and I guess I could believe it.
- manwe150 5y agoMy dad has always tried to park 50 feet away from other cars anyways, for as long as I've known him (he's protective of his car). Since this wouldn't affect his habits, maybe I could get him one from GM on a steep discount now? And yes, I am only joking.
- cyanydeez 5y agoare you sure this isnt a mar,etting stratrgy to get those coveted douchbags who part miles away from other cars because of how precious they want people to think their cars are
- redis_mlc 5y ago"You're holding it wrong." - Steve Jobs
- guardiangod 5y ago"Hit me and we blow up together" -The new Pinto, Bolt
- legohead 5y agoI have a Hyundai Kona EV, waiting for my turn for a battery recall/replacement, and they have told me (and all EV Kona users I presume) to not park in the garage and keep it away from the house. But that is way too inconvenient, since I charge in the garage, and I don't live in exactly the best of neighborhoods. So I'm left wondering, if this car does catch on fire and burn the house down, will insurance cover it? Or will I be at fault for not following Hyundai's recommendations?
- rootusrootus 5y agoInsurance will cover it. They even cover overt stupidity. They don't cover fraud. They don't cover things they say aren't covered in the policy document. Otherwise you're good.
- rootusrootus 5y agoHrmph. That's going to be hard. I already park it a full car width away from my pickup. That's about as good as it's going to get, unless I park it down the street. I'll take the risk. But it'll be interesting to see if this recommendation gets out, and people start avoiding my Bolt like the plague when I park at the store. That could be a good thing...
- dpierce9 5y agoSome of this is CYA on GM’s part to shift liability from them to customers should anything bad happen during the recall period. Anecdote: I found out my Ford had one of the Takata airbag inflators that was prone to producing shrapnel. Ford had yet to recall my car but they were offering optional replacements. I called my dealer to schedule one and they said ‘you can get in 6 mos from now when we get the part, very backorded, in the mean time don’t worry it is safe’. A month later they issued a formal recall. I received letter after letter telling me to schedule a replacement immediately. They even left me voicemails about how I might die by bleeding out (very graphic). Sold the car to the dealer shortly thereafter.
- manquer 5y agoWouldn't this also open GM to lawsuits on being sold a defective product ? I am sure the marketing materials projected range higher than keeping 70km reserve. It could also be argued expecting to park 50m from others makes the product unusable ?
- grapist420 5y agoheadline should include that “some”
- lastofthemojito 5y agoFolks are apparently being told they can't park their Bolts in various garages, etc: https://old.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/pp2inx/just_received_this_notice_at_my_work_lovely/ https://old.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/pp2inx/just_receive... https://old.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/pp3yrs/another_no_bolt_parking_sign_seen_in_office/ https://old.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/pp3yrs/another_no_b... https://old.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/po9imp/is_this_going_to_become_a_thing_atlanta_ga/ https://old.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/po9imp/is_this_goin... These cars just became a lot less useful.
- blondie9x 5y agoMaybe this is why Toyota and Honda and Hyundai haven't totally given up on hydrogen fuel cell vehicles? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpRyn5-ZbPU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpRyn5-ZbPU
- karussell 5y agoOT: a cookie banner showed up and after I agreed it stated "preparing your Cookie preferences can take minutes". And it took indeed very long (a minute?), I was even able to do a screenshot: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/129644/133563621-62823f50-8c7b-4440-ad77-272c27f68ca1.png https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/129644/133563621-6... What a time ...
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- hrbf 5y ago> Some opt-outs may fail due to your browsers cookies settings. If you would like to set opt-out preferences using this tool you must allow third party cookies in your browser settings. This has got to be the most obnoxious cookie banner created to date. Also, have you checked their “required cookies”? Most likely one giant GDPR violation.
- abdullahkhalids 5y agoOn Firefox, you need the following addons * I don't care about cookies (which will remove all cookie banners; but I think uBlock Origin can also do it with the right list) * Cookie AutoDelete (to delete all cookies as soon as you close the tab)
- devoutsalsa 5y agoA relative of my lives in a three story apartment building with an underground parking structure. He had purchased a bolt w/ a recharging station. After the last batch of fire hazard safety notices, he sold the Bolt and bought something else. With this notice, I think he'd have had to park the car outside the city limits to stay at least 50 feet from another car, and I'm not sure how he'd have handled charging.
- sys_64738 5y agoIf I ever do I'll be a late adopter for any battery driven car like this. The technology is just so unproven and filled with lurking problems. I'll stick with the combustion engine until I die.
- jinto36 5y agoI've ended up having to explain the difference between Li-ion and NiMh batteries to people a bunch of times, and why lithium batteries often seem to have a longer service life, and have started to describe the general situation as "The penalty for a poor charge controller design with NiMh is the battery doesn't work for as long, but for lithium ion the penalty is that the battery catches on fire. So more design effort goes into lithium battery chargers". This is independent of other differences in the tech, such as power density. NiMh can last a long time with a good charge controller. However, for cars it seems like the need for marketing to push range numbers as far as possible led to compromising the safety envelope. I've got two first-gen Honda Insights (2000 and 2002), which of course was a battery-assist hybrid with a small NiMh pack in the back. The OEM charge controller does a poor job of managing the pack, they often end up unbalanced, and most cars had the pack replaced once under warranty at about 10 years of service. The DIY community of course stepped in and produced aftermarket plug-in chargers that we wire to the pack to trickle charge- individual cell status isn't managed since you're just wired to the whole pack- the strategy is to just trickle charge it until the whole battery voltage gets to a certain level, which means some cells in good shape are still being charged that whole time and that excess energy gets dumped to heat. But of course unlike with LiIon, they don't catch on fire ;). Of course all-electrics have batteries much larger than the original Insight, and require the power density of LiIon. It's just an interesting contrast between the battery types with respect to battery management strategies.