23 ms·

Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

312 points by sonixier 5y ago

SergeAx 5y ago
Just imagine how much it emails to LG.
teekert 5y ago
It should also have an arm on the door to slap your hand when you open it for the 41st time in a day. I mean, that's insane, you deserve a slap. Btw, this reminds me a bit of my parent's Renault that would tell me every damn time I started it to follow traffic regulations. I wish I could slap that car and it would feel it. And then there's my father-in-law's Mazda, which has a GPS system that sometimes finds him 200 km off the mark, and it keeps talking nonsense. You can't silence it because the touch screen doesn't work while driving. Yeah you can guess how that makes one feel.. like slapping it. Oh boy, I also have an Amazfit smart watch, imagine mountainbiking at high speed, you quickly want to see how many KMs you still have to go. You look at the screen and it says: "PAI 50 Good Job!" (full screen! Despite talking the time to make the display show you only relevant things in settings) and you need your f-king other hand (while biking) to dismiss the notification. Yup, slapping and cursing it is. Do people even use the stuff they make themselves?
- soco 5y ago
  They definitely don't, the entire consumer electronics is a huge practical joke on its users. It's not only smart devices - even the induction stove with the integrated touch buttons beeping loudly at you and shutting off every time you breathe around them. And I could go on...
  - vladvasiliu 5y ago
    Oh man, I absolutely hate the touch buttons on my stove. A simple action like turning the heat up or down takes 2 actions and five minutes – you have to touch for a duration before the action registers.
    - elliekelly 5y ago
      And yet I still manage to accidentally press them when I don’t mean to. The other day I wished out loud that my stove had a button to turn on the buttons so the buttons would work when I want and not work when I don’t. Maybe the next gen model will have a Button Button^TM and we will have reached peak absurdity.
      - marcosdumay 5y ago
        > Maybe the next gen model will have a Button Button^TM Please, make it a switch. A touch button will never work there.
        vladvasiliu 5y ago
        Ha! In an older flat I had a "lock" button on the stove. Touch button, of course. And for some reason, it would always register an inadvertent touch. Of course, once locked, the buttons wouldn't work, but the lock light wasn't obvious enough.
    - margalabargala 5y ago
      Not to mention it won't register at all if your hands are wet. Good thing that never happens in the kitchen...
  - moftz 5y ago
    We bought an Instant Pot-brand air fryer. I love the thing entirely except for the buttons. They are not real buttons, just some sort of touch sensor but they sometimes just cannot detect a finger. You'd think that maybe the surface was dirty but it works just as bad when it's just been cleaned off and hands are washed. I beginning to think that the actual sensors are not aligned perfectly with the labels or that they are set to ignore someone pressing with their whole finger instead of the just the tip.
    - 93po 5y ago
      I have this too. I've had to unplug it entirely and plug it back in to make it work sometimes. Hilarious that "did you try restarting it?" now applies to air fryers. FWIW most of the touch issues I have with mine are due to moisture. If my hands are wet at all or there's any moisture on the panel (sometimes happens with cooking) then I have to wipe it down with a dry paper towel. One other fun thing I discovered - if you push the light button on and off again repeatedly it eventually stops letting you do it. I didn't count the number of times it took, maybe 20-30 times. I was clearly really bored waiting for my food to finish
- capableweb 5y ago
  Hear hear! Cars and technology has a lot of catching up to do when it comes to safety. For example, I recently changed from Android to iOS for a better driving experience (I thought) since Android Auto was a bit laggy. While CarPlay is more fluid seemingly (which could also be from the hardware upgrade), what's worse is the UX downgrade that happen when I went from Android Auto to CarPlay. I have a million of examples where the UX sucks, but I discovered something downright dangerous (and should possibly even be illegal): If you're using Google Maps/Waze for navigation and you receive a call, then the entire screen gets covered with the phone number and the answer button, while you're driving and using the navigation! Absolutely bonkers how somebody thought it was a good idea. Never before have it been as clear that the people building these things (like CarPlay) never actually tried to use their own stuff.
  - chrisbennet 5y ago
    I use Waze (on the iPhone) and it doesn't have that problem.
    - capableweb 5y ago
      I normally use both Waze and Google Maps, have this problem happening all the time, although it was a long time ago I drove now so maybe got fixed in the last month or so? I have a iPhone 12 Mini if that bears any difference.
  - jvdvegt 5y ago
    my car doesn't have Android Auto, so I have my Google-phone in a phone holder. It has the exact same problem: calls have precedence over navigation. Bonkers!
  - Too 5y ago
    Carplay tries to be too safe by not allowing anything while driving. Instead this leads you into spending more attention on the screen - searching for buttons you thought should exist but simply don't.
- matsemann 5y ago
  Ah, I get the same urge using Google Maps on my phone. Want to reach through the screen and slap the developers. So slow, so many key presses. So often it changes something up so I have to re-learn. So often it makes wild guesses that are completely off what I'm actually trying to achieve. Have to press back button a hundred times to get out of whatever it's showing me, whops one too many, app is now closed, have to open up and get back to where I wanted. It's the most frustrating app experience I have on a daily basis.
  - distances 5y ago
    > Have to press back button a hundred times to get out of whatever it's showing me, whops one too many, app is now closed, have to open up and get back to where I wanted. This happens every time, and every time I wish there'd be a "back to start" action. It's probably faster to just kill the app and restart than navigate all the way back while being careful not to go back once too often.
  - thrwyoilarticle 5y ago
    I use Google Maps via Android Auto. Sometimes I like to take a more scenic route, so I'll say: 'OK Google, avoid motorways' And it will route me past anything officially called a motorway, sadly not including the A roads that are very similar. Eventually I might decide I want to proceed more quickly, so I'll say: 'OK Google, use motorways' At which point it will perform a Google search and read out the first result, a page from the government telling me how to use a motorway.
    - fennecfoxen 5y ago
      doot dee doot, it's labor day weekend, and I'm using Apple maps to navigate instead of Google (it's easier to activate via voice). The low-fuel light turns on while cruising along an unfamiliar stretch of highway, just as I'm finishing an interchange as I leave the dense city and head through its suburbia. I'm not quite sure of whether to expect service plazas, or just-off-exit-ramp gas stations, or what. I've seen gas stations, but not the nice blue signs saying "gas, exit N", and not sure if that'll change soon. And I'd prefer to get gas quickly, then back on the highway, instead of exploring for it. Can technology help me? I haven't tried it in a while... What can the vaunted Voice Assistant do for me today? "Hey siri, I need gas!" I've found these results. The first of these is BJ's Gas, one point two miles west. Is this the one you wanted? . o O ( I'm traveling east, so maybe not?? ) "No!" Okay. Another option is Citgo, at <address>... Is this the one you want? "Yes!" . o O ( sure why not ) Would you like to call, or get directions? ... <pulls off a random exit ramp like I should have to begin with> Postscript: the correct answer would have been, There's a service plaza ahead in 14 miles. Is that soon enough?
- shreyshnaccount 5y ago
  and oh my God don't get me started about glass ketchup bottles like they just don't work?! it's insanity trying to get ketchup out it's ludacris and oh my god
  - teekert 5y ago
    I'm thinking, all a glass bottle of Ketchup needs is a smart fridge able to detect that last bit and warn you about how hard it will be to get it out and offer advice on how to do so. Maybe some gamification could be thrown in, get more kudos the less you leave in? Yeah I'm filing patents and will contact Heinz... Think about the opportunity for notifications!
    - aspaviento 5y ago
      What about... turning it upside down and let graivity do its job?
      - teekert 5y ago
        That could be something the fridge can suggest, in email+notification+display on the outside [in flashing red]! You're on to something here! Maybe the slapping hand (that warns you you've opened the fridge enough for the day) can be used to slap the back of the Ketchup bottle as well.
        OneEyedRobot 5y ago
        In order to maintain privacy, I'd suggest that the Heinz bottle compare a ketchup image to a hash of over-empty bottles. The iHeinz can then send a notification to the manufacturer who then passes it to the Ketchup Police.
      - croon 5y ago
        Maybe the bottle can include a time crystal that could advance the time by an hour so you don't have to wait for gravity. I'd honestly rather buy ketchup in a refill bag for my plastic bottle than a glass bottle.
- shellfishgene 5y ago
  Some cars in arab countries have a feature where the "travel prayer" is recited via the speakers upon starting the car. It takes about one minute [1]. Fortunately our company car hat a button to turn the feature off. Of course we always turned it back on to annoy the next (non-muslim western) car user. Saudi airlines also plays the prayer (or used to?), however by someone with a really deep voice and with cave-like reverb, which made is sound quite unlike any other airplane announcement. [2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGCPtF6XVIY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGCPtF6XVIY [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_TVsxFChrk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_TVsxFChrk
  - adriand 5y ago
    That is very funny but speaking in practical terms, and not about UX, how does a feature like this work in practice? Does Allah respond to prayers emitted by electronics? Or is the idea that the human is supposed to recite the prayer along with the recording?
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      The idea is to keep people in line within the tribe by forcing rituals.
    - kylehotchkiss 5y ago
      I have the same odd question about listening to contemporary Christian radio stations - does one become holier when the music is playing instead of the top 40 pop station?
      - prepend 5y ago
        I expect it makes people happier to listen to music they enjoy. So the same as someone listening to classical stations, or country, or whatever. Maybe people enjoy hearing prayer radios. I spent time in Nepal and people would listen to recorded meditations and chants. But I didn’t hear them on the radio, it was recorded on phones and iPods and stuff.
      - 5y ago
- WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
  > Btw, this reminds me a bit of my parent's Renault that would tell me every damn time I started it to follow traffic regulations. There are people who would benefit from this reminder. They, however, tend to not drive Renaults, but Audis and BMWs. > Do people even use the stuff they make themselves? Last I’ve heard they were using A/B tests to choose between crazy features and batshit insane features to maximize engagement and brand awareness. So, I’m afraid the answer is no.
  - croon 5y ago
    > There are people who would benefit from this reminder. They, however, tend to not drive Renaults, but Audis and BMWs. I've had this game with my wife while driving somewhere for the last 10 years. I see someone doing a dangerous pass, driving (way) too fast, cutting someone off too quickly, tailgating, etc, etc, etc, and before I can tell the brand/model, I tell my wife "It's one of those again" (and I would also include Mercedes here), and in 95% of cases I'm right. I'm not saying every driver of those brands are guilty of it, but the guilty drivers are swallowed by the brand owner group in the Venn diagram. At least locally in my experience. It's fascinating.
    - WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
      Drove today in a 20 kph zone. Was just dragging behind a BMW that was going nicely within the speed limit. It was so uncharacteristic that I thought: man, it won't end well. Such things don't just happen. He's gonna do something. A moment later the BMW turned left without blinking. Well. At least I knew I wasn't dreaming it. The world was back to how I knew it.
      - Toutouxc 5y ago
        I witnessed a similar thing today, I was the first car in front of a black BMW for over 20 kilometers on twisty country roads. There was a young man behind the wheel and he gave me lots of space when I was turning onto the road on a busy intersection, was keeping his distance, never looked down at his phone AFAIK, and it felt really nice not to be expecting to be hit from behind at any moment.
- qw 5y ago
  It seems most "UX" tends to be less about the user and more about exposing the product. One example is the pause screens in Netflix and other streaming services. I sometimes want to pause the screen to read a letter or examine easter eggs left by the movie producers. I can't do that, as Netflix has a semi-transparent overlay with lots of unnecessary graphics and voting buttons. Half the screen is also covered with the logo and/or poster from the movie I'm currently watching... as if I need to know? They could at least provide an option to remove the graphic if you actually want to look at the paused movie.
  - andrepd 5y ago
    Absolutely! The top issue with model universally terrible UX is precisely trying to bring attention to itself rather than simply being the most efficient means to an end: interacting with the software.
    - DonHopkins 5y ago
      Right on! That kind of terrible UX technology whose primary purpose is to draw attention to itself instead of receding into the background is the opposite of Calm Technology / Ubiquitous Computing, as described by Mark Weiser at Xerox PARC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Weiser#Ubiquitous_computing_and_calm_technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Weiser#Ubiquitous_computi... Ubiquitous computing and calm technology Ubiquitous computing names the third wave in computing, just now beginning. First were mainframes, each shared by lots of people. Now we are in the personal computing era, person and machine staring uneasily at each other across the desktop. Next comes ubiquitous computing, or the age of calm technology, when technology recedes into the background of our lives. — Mark Weiser During one of his talks, Weiser outlined a set of principles describing ubiquitous computing: - The purpose of a computer is to help you do something else. - The best computer is a quiet, invisible servant. - The more you can do by intuition the smarter you are; the computer should extend your unconscious. - Technology should create calm. In Designing Calm Technology, Weiser and John Seely Brown describe calm technology as "that which informs but doesn't demand our focus or attention." 1996 Computer Science Challenges for the Next 10 Years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jwLWosmmjE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jwLWosmmjE Designing Calm Technology: https://www.karlstechnology.com/blog/designing-calm-technology/ https://www.karlstechnology.com/blog/designing-calm-technolo...
- mschuster91 5y ago
  > Do people even use the stuff they make themselves? Yeah, and usually the devs know that what they have done is sub-optimal at best... but that doesn't count against the dominance of marketing or legal in decisionmaking.
- option_greek 5y ago
  They should ask and receive consent before using in such rude ways. Liberation and rights for non binary living things are the order of the day. The International NBLT society explicitly declared and demanded for their rights at their recent Silicon Valley conference as per this NYT article.
- petepete 5y ago
  The GPS in my car does that, it's so annoying. I like to leave it on 'map view' where it shows current location and the street name at the top, and every time it starts I have to 'ok' a disclaimer telling me to focus on the road. Infuriating.
- bpoyner 5y ago
  I'll just leave this right here. https://mazdatweaks.com/ https://mazdatweaks.com/
  - bpoyner 5y ago
    The only thing I did with my Mazda infotainment system was update the firmware and the retrofit kit to support CarPlay. I find the commander knob not that hard to use with some experience, but with the AIO tweaks you can enable the touchscreen while driving. To each their own I guess.
- SkeuomorphicBee 5y ago
  That reminded of my father-in-law's Chevrolet, every time you turn off the car it very loudly announces for you to "please check if you haven't left any belongings in the back seat" (or some nonsense like that). So every time he drops us off late at night the car screaming wakes the baby when we arrive.
  - moftz 5y ago
    There is usually a setting for the rear seat reminder. It's to remind people to not leave their babies in the car. Maybe the volume is purposefully set a little high to wake the kid up just in case you forget.
    - bavell 5y ago
      Do people really need a reminder to not forget their babies? From a car? What?
      - JeffRosenberg 5y ago
        99.999% of the time, no. But the consequences of forgetting are disastrous, and it's happened to plenty of well-meaning but distracted and preoccupied people. It was one of my greatest fears when my kids were young.
      - genewitch 5y ago
        Fatigue, some medications (and drugs, to be fair), and stress, perhaps? Being tired or stressed has made me miss exits. Then again, songs on the radio or whatever have, too.
  - drewg123 5y ago
    In 2006 I had a new Prius that turned on a loud, annoying back up beeper. It would wake my theninfant son up. I finally found a "cheat code" that let me enter a service menu and disable it.
- deergomoo 5y ago
  > full screen! Despite talking the time to make the display show you only relevant things in settings This is a long standing gripe I have with the Apple Watch too—a busy group chat can effectively DDoS you out of being able to use the thing, because notifications are always full screen. There’s also a ~2 second delay before a notification can actually be dismissed, because it has to complete its swoopy animation first. It doesn’t sound too bad, but when your average interaction with a smart watch is 10 seconds or less it becomes a real annoyance.
  - genewitch 5y ago
    I'm not a fan of "someone made this art so it will play/display for N seconds every time some thing happens. Not in video games, not on watches, not on phone apps, and my eye is twitching so I can't think of any other examples
- tzs 5y ago
  Are you just objecting to the method by which the fridge is providing useful performance information to the owner, or are you objecting to the fridge providing that information at all?
- zimpenfish 5y ago
  > It should also have an arm on the door to slap your hand when you open it for the 41st time in a day. He does say later on that they have kids which perfectly explains why the fridge door is like a turnstile.
- 29083011397778 5y ago
  > my father-in-law's Mazda... the touch screen doesn't work while driving Sounds like it's an older model, and I can tell you from personal experience Mazda, at least, has learned from their mistakes (regarding touchscreens). I know the 2020 models, and I believe much earlier, have all gone back to physical, tactile buttons. Real buttons, not Volkswagon's stupid, stupid capacitive buttons. Watching Jason Camisa dunk on VW's UX was an exercise in vindication for having avoided that horseshit [0]. They are clicky, settings are remembered, and it does what you tell it to do. Frankly, that's all it took for me to insist our new car be a Mazda. And while I apologize for the rant, finding a new car that doesn't tell you to use a touchsceen at 110km/h is far harder than it should be - and what a sad state of affairs that is. [0] https://youtu.be/XGbPHp6QfkQ https://youtu.be/XGbPHp6QfkQ
eric4smith 5y ago
It should lock you out for a configurable time after "n" opens. It can lock the door in the night after dinner to prevent midnight snacking by the kids (or parents). And should tweet to your account to shame you publicly after "n" number of opens. What's the IP address of your fridge (just curious)?
- rapnie 5y ago
  It will do all those things with its connection to the governments "Fit & Healthy" social credit application that was auto-updated the other day. Wanna complain after it locks you out? The only way to do so is by grabbing a rent-a-bike and cycle 20 miles to the nearest human interest centre. /s?
  - TeMPOraL 5y ago
    That's some evil totalitarian dystopia, we don't do things this way over here in the West. Our fridge gives you freedom to open and close it how many times you want. More than that, by means of synergy with our health industry partners, it lets your good eating habits give you the best deal on your health insurance plan!
- em-bee 5y ago
  our freezer does that, every time after you open it, it somehow reduces the pressure (maybe it tries to suck out the warm air) making the door hard to open.
  - krapp 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure that's just done with electromagnets.
    - xythobuz 5y ago
      that's really just physics. warm air gets in through the opened door, after closing it rapidly cools down, because air does not hold that much heat energy. Because it cools it contracts, which reduces the pressure inside the freezer, causing the outside air pressure to hold the door shut more firmly. No electromagnets or anything.
hcykb 5y ago
Well at least the email seems useful.
madaxe_again 5y ago
41 times in a day is a lot of door opens, and suggests they need a separate beverage fridge. That should’ve been the message - give the customer a solution, make a sale - but instead, they just went for shame. Folks really underestimate how much opening them door (and then usually leaving it open while you deliberate) wastes energy, and food. If I’m cooking three meals in the day, the fridge gets opened maybe five times - although I do have a separate little fridge for cold drinks.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  That little fridge might be a lot less efficient than the big fridge. Some of them use as much or more energy than a big one. You might waste more energy running it and re-cooling it every time you open it for a drink than you would opening the big fridge for drinks even if it's more efficient under the test conditions they use to rate its efficiency.
  - madaxe_again 5y ago
    I live entirely off-grid - I know where my energy goes, and what impacts it - but you’re all absolutely correct, we should all leave our freezers stood open 24/7, as it makes no difference.
bvm 5y ago
I am somewhat impressed that he's managing to open the fridge 44 times a day. Is he using it as a filing cabinet?
- spuz 5y ago
  Kids
  - chunkyfunky 5y ago
    Yep, keeping ur kids in the fridge is a great way to keep them fresh for weeks :)
    - blitzar 5y ago
      Just open the door every 20 minutes or so to check on them.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - marcosdumay 5y ago
        But then the fridge would complain that it wasn't run at maximum efficiency.
- risfriend 5y ago
  I had a small kids party at my home yesterday and it would've easily been opened a total of 50 times or more by various people.
- martin_a 5y ago
  44 times? Sounds like me in a somewhat depressed phase on a Saturday evening. Nothing extraordinary...
- jve 5y ago
  Ehh... when eating, easily I always forget someting in the fridge and end up opening it x times. Now that is even after meal is prepared and already opened y times. And then there are number of other people that may want to take something that was not interesting for me. Yeah, bad logistics, but I prefer opening multiple times vs keeping doors opened for longer periods of time.
globular-toast 5y ago
Wow, 44 times a day, on average! That's about once every 20 minutes for the entire day. I can't imagine why anyone would need to access the fridge that often. It's almost like they don't understand what the fridge is for. Anyway, if you don't want this, don't buy it. They either wired their fridge into their network or gave it access to their wifi. What, exactly, did they expect? The guy even keeps saying "it's just a fridge". I just bought a fridge with none of this nonsense. Because it's just a fridge.
- tibbydudeza 5y ago
  When you have kids you will understand - open the door - looks at the contents - frowns and then closes it again repeated several times during the day. "I was looking for something nice". Explaining that we shop once a week and that the fridge won't magically fill with popsicles before that does not seem to make a difference.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    In which case 'hey, someone is opening the door an insane amount, which is not good for the fridge or your food' might be a handy alert, so you know what they're up to and can stop them? (I'm not saying it should be internet connected for that purpose though.)
    - djrogers 5y ago
      > so you know what they're up to and can stop them? Lol, sure - go ahead and stop a 5 year old from checking the fridge a few times a day when here hungry. See how much better that makes your life. Again - when you have kids, you will understand...
      - danhon 5y ago
        THANK. YOU.
      - globular-toast 5y ago
DavideNL 5y ago
Somewhat related: my Netatmo weather station sends me an e-mail every few weeks that i should replace the battery of one of the modules. I assume it doesn’t like rechargeable batteries. I never replace them, can’t disable the e-mail. Support can’t fix this of course. So I’ve setup a server-side e-mail rule to send all netatmo.com emails to the junk to prevent being constantly spammed by them.
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  Is it powered off AAs? Rechargeable batteries have lower voltage than non-rechargeable ones[0], so maybe the module is a bit oversensitive when trying to guess the battery is about to die. -- [0] - With batteries I have around the house, it's 1.5V nominal voltage for typical non-rechargeable AA, vs. 1.2V for rechargeables.
  - DavideNL 5y ago
    Yea you’re probably right… it’s these batteries: https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-BK-4MCCA8BA-eneloop-Pre-Charged-Rechargeable/dp/B00JHKSMIG/ref=sr_1_3 https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-BK-4MCCA8BA-eneloop-Pre-Cha...
  - greenshackle2 5y ago
    However the voltage on alkaline batteries drops pretty linearly from 1.5v to 1.0v, while rechargeables maintain close to 1.2V for most of their discharge, then drops off quickly: https://www.boat-project.com/tutorials/aa_batteries.htm https://www.boat-project.com/tutorials/aa_batteries.htm That's why rechargeables work in most devices, since alkalines are 1.2v or below for a good chunk of their useful life anyway, most devices are designed to work fine with 1.2v. If a device actually needs 1.3+V to function properly, alkalines won't last long, you'll want to use 1.5V lithium batteries.
    - genewitch 5y ago
      Aren't all the lithium batteries of the sort you're talking about labelled as 3v? A lithium cell would need a buck circuit to do 1.5v
qwerty456127 5y ago
Be glad it doesn't (yet) shame your eco-ignorance on Facebook, doesn't tell your insurance company you occasionally buy bacon and doesn't call the police for you infringing their intellectual property by refusing to buy new genuine filters often enough. "Smart" home devices which are not open-source and not under your full control are a horror. I would break it open and remove the WiFi antenna if I had no choice of buying a non-connected one. I've bought a robo vacuum cleaner recently. Luckily there still are 100% offline models available. Unluckily they all are overly stupid, can't have lidars and map your home (while I can see no reason why this has to require Internet access and can't be implemented an autonomous way).
- cirrrrrrus 5y ago
  > can't have lidars and map your home (while I can see no reason why this has to require Internet access and can't be implemented an autonomous way). This is a great comment. I would love smart appliances (e.g. Lidar-equipped robot vacuum cleaner) that are 100% offline. If anyone has a list of smart yet offline appliances, I’d love to shop there.
  - Vinnl 5y ago
    It's not limited to just offline products, but Mozilla makes a shopping guide every year where it rates the privacy impact of products including, it seems, robo vacuum cleaners: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/
  - qwerty456127 5y ago
    I can remember someone mentioned an old model (supposedly possible to find on eBay) which could be hacked to run a vendor-imitating server on itself and connect to it via localhost.
    - dugite-code 5y ago
      A few of the Xaiomi's and Viomi's are rootable. I have a Gen1 Xaiomi and it's brilliant. I got ssh access to the ubuntu install and installed https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo and run it 100% local via my home-assistant install. dgiese is a proficient vacuum security researcher and has most of that stuff available here: https://github.com/dgiese/dustcloud https://github.com/dgiese/dustcloud
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mellavora 5y ago
"Does anyone want any toast?" (oblic. Red Dwarf ref)
- mattowen_uk 5y ago
  For those that don't get it: https://youtu.be/LRq_SAuQDec https://youtu.be/LRq_SAuQDec
- dTal 5y ago
  One wonders how such a perfect satire of smart devices was written 30 years ago. Was the trend visible even then?
  - mkr-hn 5y ago
    The hazards and wonders of home automation/smart homes and artificial home assistants have been a topic of sci-fi for ages.
    - dTal 5y ago
      Indeed, but the aspect of the Red Dwarf toaster that really lands today is the unnecessarily extreme sophistication, coupled with the unrelenting effort to occupy more and more of the user's life. Douglas Adams touched upon these themes as well, generally via the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation, but it wasn't quite so-on-the-nose.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
helsinkiandrew 5y ago
How long until some manufacturer sells a basic fridge and then a 'frequent use service pack' monthly fee that lets you open the door more than the standard number of times a day?
- blitzar 5y ago
  Can I roll over my unused opens from today to tomorrow?
  - TeMPOraL 5y ago
    No, but eventually the regulators will catch up and force the fridge companies to simply charge you by the second for the time the doors are opened above some generous free plan.
    - blitzar 5y ago
      If I get behind on my opening allowence I will just have to stay up till midnight when my opens reset, grab everything I can and stack it on the counter for the day.
      - TeMPOraL 5y ago
        You think of it as a clever hack, but the data analyst at your health insurer, seeing the sudden midnight disappearance of half of the stuff in your fridge, may view it as a symptom of depression.
        blitzar 5y ago
        Damn, then they will put me on medication that will push up my appetite and make me go to the fridge more. It is like big fridge is in bed with big food which is in bed with big pharma. At least I wont be anxious when the bill for my fridge door opening comes at the end of the month.
        5y ago
blitzar 5y ago
I think this guys point is that he needs everyone to know he paid an extra $2,000 for a 'smart' fridge. All while mentioning that he doesnt want or like the 'smart' bit.
- DoingIsLearning 5y ago
  Well the risk is if the appliances world goes the way of TV panel displays, where the 'smart' component is used to finance a cheaper TV by later selling your data to advertisers/broadcasters. It could be that tomorrow the Smart fridge is the cheaper option because the manufacturer will use your data to price-cut the competitors initial price tag. It could be that in a not so far future you will pay a premium for having a dumb fridge, and we will see HN posts on how to build a faraday cage for the LTE antennas on your fridge.
  - blitzar 5y ago
    Absolutely, but unlike the TV example today if you want 'smart' in your fridge you have to actively seek it out and hand over a pile of extra cash. It is hard to have sympathy for a person complaining about a feature, they say they didnt want, that they specifically paid a lot of extra money for. But it turns out he litterally did it so he could go on twitter and moan about it.
- HanaShiratori 5y ago
  Especially since he configured some kind of app or service and let it know his email address.
  - TeMPOraL 5y ago
    Vendors tend to offer perks for that, like extended warranties, so it's hard to really blame them. The e-mail history at https://twitter.com/hondanhon/status/1436030530781278210 https://twitter.com/hondanhon/status/1436030530781278210 makes it plausible that the account was set up to make use of whatever the "LG Proactive Customer Care" nonsense is.
- 5y ago
bloak 5y ago
It might be a good idea to take account of how long the door stays open. For me, making a cup of tea involves opening the fridge door twice but for less than a second on each occasion: to get the milk out, and to put the milk back. There's an alternative, of course: opening it once and leaving it open for about ten seconds. Timings are approximate. In any case, I don't need e-mail about it. I hope there's an "unsubscribe" button.
- bruce343434 5y ago
  Since cold air is denser, I always understood that when you open a vertical cooler the cold air just flows out like a fluid (gas) and is displaced by warm air. This is also why it's good to keep your fridge full, so that it has some thermal mass to it. It's also one of the reasons horizontal freezers are so efficient.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    To the extent even that supermarkets can get away with having completely open-topped aisle-long chest freezers. Matthias Wandel has done some related fridge/freezer experiments I saw recently via Youtube: https://woodgears.ca/heating/freezer.html https://woodgears.ca/heating/freezer.html https://woodgears.ca/heating/fridge.html https://woodgears.ca/heating/fridge.html (Particularly the (upright) freezer one is more directly about temperature & door opening, from what I recall.)
hamburgerwah 5y ago
I am mystified by people that will give appliances access to a network.
- aaronmdjones 5y ago
  Appliances are starting to come with their own integrated 3G/4G modems these days. You don't need to give them access to anything; they already have it.
  - kwhitefoot 5y ago
    Really? Why would they spend the money to do that?
    - bruce343434 5y ago
      Data is the new oil is the new gold
  - globular-toast 5y ago
    Do you have any examples?
dTal 5y ago
The problem here isn't that the fridge is tracking door opens. That seems like a good application for a "smart" appliance - tracking how usage patterns affect its internal state and holding a dialogue with the user. The problem is that it used email, which comes across as passive aggressive in the same way it would if a human did it. If it just showed a notification on a screen, I don't think we'd be having this discussion. I think, if appliances are going to be "smart", it's time we started holding them to similar standards of behavior to humans. Our machines are learning to talk; now they need to learn not to be rude.
- gonzo41 5y ago
  It'd be better if it along with other devices could set a family meeting and your smart TV could replay clips of your miss use to use whilst alexa chides you. It'd be like a family meeting almost.
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  At least it's email and not another stupid phone app they force you to install...
- defaultname 5y ago
  The fridge emailed basically a performance report to the address that he configured on setup. One of the performance report items is that it had been opened a lot, which does impact efficiency and food longevity. It didn't email a complaint. It did precisely what he configured it to do (I will go on a limb and presume the fridge didn't guess his email address), and presumably what he expected it to do given that he paid a large premium for a "smart" fridge. There is no problem here beyond that often Twitter makes everyone a comedian/performance artist and people often take their routines a little too seriously.
  - djrogers 5y ago
    > It didn't email a complaint. It did precisely what he configured it to do From the tweets: > I don’t even remember giving permission for our fridge to email. Also, if you read the thread, this seems to be a new 'feature' they've added since he set it up - the fridge was silent for a year, then boom - stupid email.
chmod775 5y ago
If any of your basic kitchen appliances connect to the internet, I will forever use you as a punchline. Even if I didn't, it'd probably not be worth it.
xaedes 5y ago
In Battlestar Galactica humanity's last defense was this big "dumb" battlestar spaceship with sparsly connected systems. Sometimes it feels like the internet (of things) is the breeding ground of the Cylons in our world.
- tov247 5y ago
  This is the approach I have to computers controlling things in my home, it's fine if they are computers, but I don't want them connected.
- bserge 5y ago
  But the Cylons are human... oh wait
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  I resent that consumer IoT is almost always required to connect to a cloud service. I love the idea of an IoT house - smart lamps, smart locks, cameras, climate conrtol, etc. I only want them connected to my LAN. If I want to access any of their controls remotely, I will set up a VPN or otherwise they should provide a jump service locally, not require cloud connectivity.
  - increscent 5y ago
    Check out this project! https://trmm.net/Ikea/ https://trmm.net/Ikea/ Apparently, the firmware on some IKEA smart home devices can be easily flashed.
pvaldes 5y ago
Pretty dystopic feeling. Another early case of machines intelligence replacing man while still learning the stuff. Is a global plague if we think in how many things stopped being smart of logical in the last years. Enter your phone here to do anything (unrelated with phones) is one of my favorites.
tester34 5y ago
would disabling wifi prevent this?
tgv 5y ago
Can I hold my breath while waiting for ransomware for fridges?
- genewitch 5y ago
  It'd be pretty stupid to risk prison for "remotely disabling someone's smart refrigerator" since you couldn't ransom for more than a dumb refrigerator (which your victim would probably get) - probably within like 25% of that and they'll just put the bricked fridge in the dump.
  - tgv 5y ago
    You could make it thaw the contents of the freezer, or stop it from cooling altogether, I think. Indeed, they can't demand a lot of money, but not so long ago, they were holding private users' computers to ransom for relatively low amounts. Many small amounts make a big one.
quotemstr 5y ago
I bet somebody got a really nice bonus for that feature https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20061101-03/?p=29153 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20061101-03/?p=29...
glitchc 5y ago
Just set the email to bugs@lg.com. Problem solved. Why sign up at all? It can only send you an email if you tell it your address.
- maverwa 5y ago
  Hi kind of answers this: I connected it to the internet because knowing about internet connected things and *how they work in real life* is kinda part of my job I thinks that fair. If you job is consulting "on technology and its role in society", then experiencing these things is reasonable.
beervirus 5y ago
I set up a raspberry pi thermometer in our freezer that would email me once a day with a temperature log (hourly averages), and also email me immediately if the temperature ever got too high. But dammit, I opted in for those emails! (It was a freezer full of the most precious commodity, breast milk. And it actually did save us one time when the freezer thermostat failed, so it was absolutely worth the hassle.)
- lom 5y ago
  Ha! Last time I tried putting a rpi into a fridge… for cooling - it broke because of the humidity :) Should’ve used the freezer.
  - beervirus 5y ago
    Oh I only put the actual temperature sensor inside. Ran some thin wires out to the pi under the door gasket.
    - tzs 5y ago
      I too have an RPi logging fridge/freezer temperature, but wirelessly. I use this wireless fridge/freezer thermometer [1]. The units that go in the fridge and freezer communicate with the display unit via 433 MHz RF. I have an RTL-SDR [2] on the RPi. I run rtl_433 [3] on the RPi. rtl_433 understands the protocols of a large number of wireless sensors, including the ones used by those AcuRite sensors. I've got it configured to output whatever sensor data it decodes in JSON format to a file, and a script that periodically parses new entries from that file and records in an sqlite DB the readings from the sensors I'm interested in. Rtl_433 is a fun program. It recognizes and decodes the transmissions of a lot of things. It is getting several neighbor's wireless thermometers and humidity sensors, a soil moisture sensor, several different car tire pressure sensors, a smoke detector, some kind of keypad (wireless lock?), a car remote, some kind of energy monitor, a rain gauge, and a wind speed/direction sensor. [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QJVU78/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QJVU78/ [2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009U7WZCA/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009U7WZCA/ [3] https://github.com/merbanan/rtl_433 https://github.com/merbanan/rtl_433
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
OneTimePetes 5y ago
Automate the user instead of re-designing the product. What is needed, is a cold air recycling suction device, that similar to the open fridges in super market, stores the cold air that flows out like a waterfall - in a waterfall. But instead, lets harass the user.
FpUser 5y ago
I was sort of shocked when I went to buy some gizmo for my car on Amazon and it told me that this particular one will not fit my particular car make and model. Other than whatever is required by law I never told any company about what car if any I own.
- kadoban 5y ago
  Someone on your account likely chose it from the options for a previous item, it remembers those choices.
  - FpUser 5y ago
    I do not share my account with anyone and this was my first and last ever car related purchase on Amazon
- bserge 5y ago
  Unlikely but could be possible by using license plate and owner information in some countries where it is (or was) public information.
- opwieurposiu 5y ago
  Car dealers sell your info when you buy the car. Mostly used to try and sell you third party extended warranty and the like.
ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
That thread is a riot! Thanks for sharing it.
MarkusWandel 5y ago
I recently bought a 32" 4K monitor. Two different models were at at that point inexpensive enough to tempt me. A smart one, and different brand, dumb one for $50 more. I bought the latter. I'm happy. The market decides, right? What is actually happening here? 1. Most people actually like this overdone gimmickry? 2. Most people think they will like it, buy it and then get sick of it? Thus people like me, who seek out the ungimmicked product, are not a significant market force? 3. Most people would prefer not to have it, but due to a free market failure, the ungimmicked product just isn't available any more? The gimmicks are everywhere. We have a basic "Instant Pot" pressure cooker. It has just the right amount of electronic smarts. A few button presses to cook a roast to completion in about an hour, and walk away. It beeps when it's done. With later models you see an almost obsessive drive to load them up with more features, few of which anyone will ever use.
- codesections 5y ago
  > 3. Most people would prefer not to have it, but due to a free market failure, the ungimmicked product just isn't available any more? No, I'd go with (4) people would prefer not to have it, but companies know that they can monitize the data they collect[0] and thus are willing to offer a discount that's large enough to get people (who may or may not know about the data collection) to buy the smart™ version. [0]: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2019/02/21/why-tvs-so-cheap-now-your-smart-tv-spying-you-money/2910013002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2019/02/21/w...
  - caymanjim 5y ago
    This, and also people simply don't know. Your average consumer buying a TV has no idea what metrics the device is capturing and sharing, or that by connecting it to the Internet, they're not just receiving information, they're sending it. Even cynical/paranoid tech-savvy people are caught off guard when real-time personalized ads start showing up in the on-screen menus of their Internet-connected devices, and would be annoyed to know that their usage patterns are monitored even when they aren't explicitly using an Internet service like Netflix.
  - 5y ago
caymanjim 5y ago
I have a semi-related anecdote about surprises from devices. I use a CPAP. After a year, I went back to the doctor for a followup, and was asked to bring the SD card so they could review the data it collects. The device records the times and duration of use, various settings, and some metrics on breathing (apnea events, etc). I knew it recorded this stuff on an SD card. I brought the card to the appointment, but the doctor said "I don't need that, I have your data here." It turns out that the CPAP contains a cellular modem, and it phones home and reports in real-time. I had no idea this thing was recording any data at all. It wasn't verbally disclosed to me by either the doctor or the equipment technicians. I imagine there's something buried in the fine print of the (long lost) documentation, possibly even in the fine print of some form I signed, but I was caught off guard and none too pleased. I've since done some research on this and discussed it with my new doctor when it came time to get a new CPAP. The doctor acted surprised by me having a problem with it. She immediately jumped to the defense of the manufacturer and insurance company, claiming that they "needed" that data. She said that if I disabled it, insurance would refuse coverage. This is insanely invasive, even with disclosure, and ought to be illegal without explicit, obvious verbal and written disclosure. The insurance defense is complete bullshit. For one, I paid cash for the CPAP because I had a high-deductible insurance plan and would have had to pay out-of-pocket anyway (and never claimed it even for the deductible offset). I realize a CPAP isn't a fridge, and there's at least a case to be made for insurance enforcing compliance (at least when insurance claims are involved). I don't agree with the undisclosed enforcement mechanism, nor do I agree that treatment should be contingent on monitoring (it is for some other treatments, but not for most; no one is monitoring diet, exercise, drug use, cigarette consumption, or other risky behaviors, and threatening to withhold treatment for non-compliance). Anyway, I've ranted enough, but there's a serious problem with the normalization of surveillance technology.
- larrik 5y ago
  Interesting, this was made super clear to me, and even included instructions to leave it plugged in for at least 40 minutes after waking up in the morning so it can communicate. Generally the insurance companies don't like paying for supplies for people who aren't actually using them, and need to see that you use it for an average of 4 hours per night or whatever.
burnt_toast 5y ago
For a long time now I've been naming my computers things like "LG Refrigerator" or "LG Microwave" as a joke. I thought it'd be funny if someone was ever checking the network and saw them pop up. I'm bummed that fridges actually use the internet now.
- TheCapn 5y ago
  I named things more obscenely. My livingroom TV's chromecast is "Secret Sex Dungeon TV". I recently learned that when my network is out, Chromecasts broadcast their own wifi hotspot as a way for you to configure them using the name they were set up with. I hope my neighbors don't mind knowing I have a Secret Sex Dungeon and a Torture Room with smart devices. oops.
rtkaratekid 5y ago
My appliances are not allowed to have strong opinions. And when they have opinions at all, they’re not allowed to communicate them except for the most subtle of ways. “Oh you’re emitting a nice, quiet ring because you think the fridge door has been open too long? That’s nice, it’s going to be open a bit longer.” Heaven help my toaster if it ever stops mid toast because it thinks the bread is already done.
nimbius 5y ago
somewhat offtopic but for those looking to get a 'dumb' fridge (or any other kitchen/laundry appliance) your city probably has a small appliances shop that will sell you most of a kitchen for a bargain. these are used ranges, freezers, washers/dryers that are fully serviced and in many cases come with a warranty from the shop.
umvi 5y ago
Well presumably this person connected their fridge to WiFi so what did they expect. It's not like the fridge connected to a cell network or something.
- mikalauskas 5y ago
  Moreover, this person registered an account and linked his fridge.
bgro 5y ago
Some day soon we'll get to Fridge As A Service. Dear end user. This is your first and final warning. You have surpassed your monthly amount of fridge openings.
eplanit 5y ago
I had a new A/C installed in my house a few years ago. The technician asked for the wifi password so that the A/C could connect. He was very puzzled when I laughed and told him no, the A/C has no need for the Internet. He went on and on about controlling the thermostat from an app...and how the date/time would always be in sync. At first I got very concerned that it was required, and was preparing for a very unpleasant conversation about how they would have to replace it with a different model. Fortunately, it was an option...that year.
theNJR 5y ago
My Bosch fridge claimed it would notify if the door stayed open. I read that to me I’d get a native push notification after a time threshold I can set. That would be a very useful feature. Oh how foolish I was. No, it’s an app that requires a whole mess of registration. They better not email me a report card like this guy.
- ziml77 5y ago
  Does it at least give you warnings that don't involve the app? My parents don't have "smart" appliances, but their fridge chimes when the door is left open too long. And they have a freezer in their basement which latches on an indicator if the temperature inside went above freezing. Both useful ways of providing a warning without app bullshit.
  - 0xffff2 5y ago
    Of course it does. I've recently purchase a new washer/dryer and a Bosch fridge. All three units have some kind of connectivity built in, but I just peeled off the stickers telling me how to connect and threw them in the trash. They work just like their old non-smart counterparts as far as I can tell.
- 8note 5y ago
  I think that's the only useful feature a smart refrigerator can really offer, unless it figured out how to order more groceries or suggest recipes based in what's in your fridge. Getting the door open notification seems pretty easy, too. I bet a smart lightbulb could alarm if it's been on too long
unixhero 5y ago
Anti feature
xyzzy21 5y ago
NEVER buy an internet-connectable appliance!! Certainly never connect any internet-connectable appliance to the actual internet!! Certainly never provide any personal information to any internet-connectable appliance that is on the actual internet!! You are an idiot if you violate any of these. Just grow a spine and don't do stupid things that are obviously dangerous or invasive.
- npteljes 5y ago
  I mean, the tweets are funny, but the guy gave the fridge his email address at a time, no? So what was the expectation?
- thrownaway810 5y ago
  Can you find me a OLED 4K HDR TV that’s sold in Australia at a consumer level that has no internet connectability? I’ve been searching for months, I’m yet to find out. The market has varied enough that I can’t see a way to avoid it and still have a TV that supports modern imagery enhancements and standards.
Havoc 5y ago
Maybe this is what is burying Krebs with that ddos
nazgulnarsil 5y ago
Good products disappear from consciousness Shitty products drive "engagement"
7357 5y ago
Is there a named rule that relates smart devices users to how dumb their owners are?
sjs382 5y ago
I got a Samsung fridge recently, our first "french door" fridge. The mechanism that keeps the space between the doors sealed has failed often enough (keeping the left door open) that I've actually been thankful for "the fridge has been open for a few minutes" push notifications.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
When will it text you if your partner is having an affair?

312 points by sonixier 5y ago

Just imagine how much it emails to LG.

It should also have an arm on the door to slap your hand when you open it for the 41st time in a day. I mean, that's insane, you deserve a slap. Btw, this reminds me a bit of my parent's Renault that would tell me every damn time I started it to follow traffic regulations. I wish I could slap that car and it would feel it. And then there's my father-in-law's Mazda, which has a GPS system that sometimes finds him 200 km off the mark, and it keeps talking nonsense. You can't silence it because the touch screen doesn't work while driving. Yeah you can guess how that makes one feel.. like slapping it. Oh boy, I also have an Amazfit smart watch, imagine mountainbiking at high speed, you quickly want to see how many KMs you still have to go. You look at the screen and it says: "PAI 50 Good Job!" (full screen! Despite talking the time to make the display show you only relevant things in settings) and you need your f-king other hand (while biking) to dismiss the notification. Yup, slapping and cursing it is. Do people even use the stuff they make themselves?

soco 5y ago
They definitely don't, the entire consumer electronics is a huge practical joke on its users. It's not only smart devices - even the induction stove with the integrated touch buttons beeping loudly at you and shutting off every time you breathe around them. And I could go on...
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  Oh man, I absolutely hate the touch buttons on my stove. A simple action like turning the heat up or down takes 2 actions and five minutes – you have to touch for a duration before the action registers.
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    And yet I still manage to accidentally press them when I don’t mean to. The other day I wished out loud that my stove had a button to turn on the buttons so the buttons would work when I want and not work when I don’t. Maybe the next gen model will have a Button Button^TM and we will have reached peak absurdity.
    - marcosdumay 5y ago
      > Maybe the next gen model will have a Button Button^TM Please, make it a switch. A touch button will never work there.
      - vladvasiliu 5y ago
        Ha! In an older flat I had a "lock" button on the stove. Touch button, of course. And for some reason, it would always register an inadvertent touch. Of course, once locked, the buttons wouldn't work, but the lock light wasn't obvious enough.
  - margalabargala 5y ago
    Not to mention it won't register at all if your hands are wet. Good thing that never happens in the kitchen...
- moftz 5y ago
  We bought an Instant Pot-brand air fryer. I love the thing entirely except for the buttons. They are not real buttons, just some sort of touch sensor but they sometimes just cannot detect a finger. You'd think that maybe the surface was dirty but it works just as bad when it's just been cleaned off and hands are washed. I beginning to think that the actual sensors are not aligned perfectly with the labels or that they are set to ignore someone pressing with their whole finger instead of the just the tip.
  - 93po 5y ago
    I have this too. I've had to unplug it entirely and plug it back in to make it work sometimes. Hilarious that "did you try restarting it?" now applies to air fryers. FWIW most of the touch issues I have with mine are due to moisture. If my hands are wet at all or there's any moisture on the panel (sometimes happens with cooking) then I have to wipe it down with a dry paper towel. One other fun thing I discovered - if you push the light button on and off again repeatedly it eventually stops letting you do it. I didn't count the number of times it took, maybe 20-30 times. I was clearly really bored waiting for my food to finish
capableweb 5y ago
Hear hear! Cars and technology has a lot of catching up to do when it comes to safety. For example, I recently changed from Android to iOS for a better driving experience (I thought) since Android Auto was a bit laggy. While CarPlay is more fluid seemingly (which could also be from the hardware upgrade), what's worse is the UX downgrade that happen when I went from Android Auto to CarPlay. I have a million of examples where the UX sucks, but I discovered something downright dangerous (and should possibly even be illegal): If you're using Google Maps/Waze for navigation and you receive a call, then the entire screen gets covered with the phone number and the answer button, while you're driving and using the navigation! Absolutely bonkers how somebody thought it was a good idea. Never before have it been as clear that the people building these things (like CarPlay) never actually tried to use their own stuff.
- chrisbennet 5y ago
  I use Waze (on the iPhone) and it doesn't have that problem.
  - capableweb 5y ago
    I normally use both Waze and Google Maps, have this problem happening all the time, although it was a long time ago I drove now so maybe got fixed in the last month or so? I have a iPhone 12 Mini if that bears any difference.
- jvdvegt 5y ago
  my car doesn't have Android Auto, so I have my Google-phone in a phone holder. It has the exact same problem: calls have precedence over navigation. Bonkers!
- Too 5y ago
  Carplay tries to be too safe by not allowing anything while driving. Instead this leads you into spending more attention on the screen - searching for buttons you thought should exist but simply don't.
matsemann 5y ago
Ah, I get the same urge using Google Maps on my phone. Want to reach through the screen and slap the developers. So slow, so many key presses. So often it changes something up so I have to re-learn. So often it makes wild guesses that are completely off what I'm actually trying to achieve. Have to press back button a hundred times to get out of whatever it's showing me, whops one too many, app is now closed, have to open up and get back to where I wanted. It's the most frustrating app experience I have on a daily basis.
- distances 5y ago
  > Have to press back button a hundred times to get out of whatever it's showing me, whops one too many, app is now closed, have to open up and get back to where I wanted. This happens every time, and every time I wish there'd be a "back to start" action. It's probably faster to just kill the app and restart than navigate all the way back while being careful not to go back once too often.
- thrwyoilarticle 5y ago
  I use Google Maps via Android Auto. Sometimes I like to take a more scenic route, so I'll say: 'OK Google, avoid motorways' And it will route me past anything officially called a motorway, sadly not including the A roads that are very similar. Eventually I might decide I want to proceed more quickly, so I'll say: 'OK Google, use motorways' At which point it will perform a Google search and read out the first result, a page from the government telling me how to use a motorway.
  - fennecfoxen 5y ago
    doot dee doot, it's labor day weekend, and I'm using Apple maps to navigate instead of Google (it's easier to activate via voice). The low-fuel light turns on while cruising along an unfamiliar stretch of highway, just as I'm finishing an interchange as I leave the dense city and head through its suburbia. I'm not quite sure of whether to expect service plazas, or just-off-exit-ramp gas stations, or what. I've seen gas stations, but not the nice blue signs saying "gas, exit N", and not sure if that'll change soon. And I'd prefer to get gas quickly, then back on the highway, instead of exploring for it. Can technology help me? I haven't tried it in a while... What can the vaunted Voice Assistant do for me today? "Hey siri, I need gas!" I've found these results. The first of these is BJ's Gas, one point two miles west. Is this the one you wanted? . o O ( I'm traveling east, so maybe not?? ) "No!" Okay. Another option is Citgo, at <address>... Is this the one you want? "Yes!" . o O ( sure why not ) Would you like to call, or get directions? ... <pulls off a random exit ramp like I should have to begin with> Postscript: the correct answer would have been, There's a service plaza ahead in 14 miles. Is that soon enough?
shreyshnaccount 5y ago
and oh my God don't get me started about glass ketchup bottles like they just don't work?! it's insanity trying to get ketchup out it's ludacris and oh my god
- teekert 5y ago
  I'm thinking, all a glass bottle of Ketchup needs is a smart fridge able to detect that last bit and warn you about how hard it will be to get it out and offer advice on how to do so. Maybe some gamification could be thrown in, get more kudos the less you leave in? Yeah I'm filing patents and will contact Heinz... Think about the opportunity for notifications!
  - aspaviento 5y ago
    What about... turning it upside down and let graivity do its job?
    - teekert 5y ago
      That could be something the fridge can suggest, in email+notification+display on the outside [in flashing red]! You're on to something here! Maybe the slapping hand (that warns you you've opened the fridge enough for the day) can be used to slap the back of the Ketchup bottle as well.
      - OneEyedRobot 5y ago
        In order to maintain privacy, I'd suggest that the Heinz bottle compare a ketchup image to a hash of over-empty bottles. The iHeinz can then send a notification to the manufacturer who then passes it to the Ketchup Police.
    - croon 5y ago
      Maybe the bottle can include a time crystal that could advance the time by an hour so you don't have to wait for gravity. I'd honestly rather buy ketchup in a refill bag for my plastic bottle than a glass bottle.
shellfishgene 5y ago
Some cars in arab countries have a feature where the "travel prayer" is recited via the speakers upon starting the car. It takes about one minute [1]. Fortunately our company car hat a button to turn the feature off. Of course we always turned it back on to annoy the next (non-muslim western) car user. Saudi airlines also plays the prayer (or used to?), however by someone with a really deep voice and with cave-like reverb, which made is sound quite unlike any other airplane announcement. [2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGCPtF6XVIY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGCPtF6XVIY [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_TVsxFChrk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_TVsxFChrk
- adriand 5y ago
  That is very funny but speaking in practical terms, and not about UX, how does a feature like this work in practice? Does Allah respond to prayers emitted by electronics? Or is the idea that the human is supposed to recite the prayer along with the recording?
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    The idea is to keep people in line within the tribe by forcing rituals.
  - kylehotchkiss 5y ago
    I have the same odd question about listening to contemporary Christian radio stations - does one become holier when the music is playing instead of the top 40 pop station?
    - prepend 5y ago
      I expect it makes people happier to listen to music they enjoy. So the same as someone listening to classical stations, or country, or whatever. Maybe people enjoy hearing prayer radios. I spent time in Nepal and people would listen to recorded meditations and chants. But I didn’t hear them on the radio, it was recorded on phones and iPods and stuff.
    - 5y ago
WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
> Btw, this reminds me a bit of my parent's Renault that would tell me every damn time I started it to follow traffic regulations. There are people who would benefit from this reminder. They, however, tend to not drive Renaults, but Audis and BMWs. > Do people even use the stuff they make themselves? Last I’ve heard they were using A/B tests to choose between crazy features and batshit insane features to maximize engagement and brand awareness. So, I’m afraid the answer is no.
- croon 5y ago
  > There are people who would benefit from this reminder. They, however, tend to not drive Renaults, but Audis and BMWs. I've had this game with my wife while driving somewhere for the last 10 years. I see someone doing a dangerous pass, driving (way) too fast, cutting someone off too quickly, tailgating, etc, etc, etc, and before I can tell the brand/model, I tell my wife "It's one of those again" (and I would also include Mercedes here), and in 95% of cases I'm right. I'm not saying every driver of those brands are guilty of it, but the guilty drivers are swallowed by the brand owner group in the Venn diagram. At least locally in my experience. It's fascinating.
  - WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
    Drove today in a 20 kph zone. Was just dragging behind a BMW that was going nicely within the speed limit. It was so uncharacteristic that I thought: man, it won't end well. Such things don't just happen. He's gonna do something. A moment later the BMW turned left without blinking. Well. At least I knew I wasn't dreaming it. The world was back to how I knew it.
    - Toutouxc 5y ago
      I witnessed a similar thing today, I was the first car in front of a black BMW for over 20 kilometers on twisty country roads. There was a young man behind the wheel and he gave me lots of space when I was turning onto the road on a busy intersection, was keeping his distance, never looked down at his phone AFAIK, and it felt really nice not to be expecting to be hit from behind at any moment.
qw 5y ago
It seems most "UX" tends to be less about the user and more about exposing the product. One example is the pause screens in Netflix and other streaming services. I sometimes want to pause the screen to read a letter or examine easter eggs left by the movie producers. I can't do that, as Netflix has a semi-transparent overlay with lots of unnecessary graphics and voting buttons. Half the screen is also covered with the logo and/or poster from the movie I'm currently watching... as if I need to know? They could at least provide an option to remove the graphic if you actually want to look at the paused movie.
- andrepd 5y ago
  Absolutely! The top issue with model universally terrible UX is precisely trying to bring attention to itself rather than simply being the most efficient means to an end: interacting with the software.
  - DonHopkins 5y ago
    Right on! That kind of terrible UX technology whose primary purpose is to draw attention to itself instead of receding into the background is the opposite of Calm Technology / Ubiquitous Computing, as described by Mark Weiser at Xerox PARC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Weiser#Ubiquitous_computing_and_calm_technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Weiser#Ubiquitous_computi... Ubiquitous computing and calm technology Ubiquitous computing names the third wave in computing, just now beginning. First were mainframes, each shared by lots of people. Now we are in the personal computing era, person and machine staring uneasily at each other across the desktop. Next comes ubiquitous computing, or the age of calm technology, when technology recedes into the background of our lives. — Mark Weiser During one of his talks, Weiser outlined a set of principles describing ubiquitous computing: - The purpose of a computer is to help you do something else. - The best computer is a quiet, invisible servant. - The more you can do by intuition the smarter you are; the computer should extend your unconscious. - Technology should create calm. In Designing Calm Technology, Weiser and John Seely Brown describe calm technology as "that which informs but doesn't demand our focus or attention." 1996 Computer Science Challenges for the Next 10 Years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jwLWosmmjE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jwLWosmmjE Designing Calm Technology: https://www.karlstechnology.com/blog/designing-calm-technology/ https://www.karlstechnology.com/blog/designing-calm-technolo...
mschuster91 5y ago
> Do people even use the stuff they make themselves? Yeah, and usually the devs know that what they have done is sub-optimal at best... but that doesn't count against the dominance of marketing or legal in decisionmaking.
option_greek 5y ago
They should ask and receive consent before using in such rude ways. Liberation and rights for non binary living things are the order of the day. The International NBLT society explicitly declared and demanded for their rights at their recent Silicon Valley conference as per this NYT article.
petepete 5y ago
The GPS in my car does that, it's so annoying. I like to leave it on 'map view' where it shows current location and the street name at the top, and every time it starts I have to 'ok' a disclaimer telling me to focus on the road. Infuriating.
bpoyner 5y ago
I'll just leave this right here. https://mazdatweaks.com/ https://mazdatweaks.com/
- bpoyner 5y ago
  The only thing I did with my Mazda infotainment system was update the firmware and the retrofit kit to support CarPlay. I find the commander knob not that hard to use with some experience, but with the AIO tweaks you can enable the touchscreen while driving. To each their own I guess.
SkeuomorphicBee 5y ago
That reminded of my father-in-law's Chevrolet, every time you turn off the car it very loudly announces for you to "please check if you haven't left any belongings in the back seat" (or some nonsense like that). So every time he drops us off late at night the car screaming wakes the baby when we arrive.
- moftz 5y ago
  There is usually a setting for the rear seat reminder. It's to remind people to not leave their babies in the car. Maybe the volume is purposefully set a little high to wake the kid up just in case you forget.
  - bavell 5y ago
    Do people really need a reminder to not forget their babies? From a car? What?
    - JeffRosenberg 5y ago
      99.999% of the time, no. But the consequences of forgetting are disastrous, and it's happened to plenty of well-meaning but distracted and preoccupied people. It was one of my greatest fears when my kids were young.
    - genewitch 5y ago
      Fatigue, some medications (and drugs, to be fair), and stress, perhaps? Being tired or stressed has made me miss exits. Then again, songs on the radio or whatever have, too.
- drewg123 5y ago
  In 2006 I had a new Prius that turned on a loud, annoying back up beeper. It would wake my theninfant son up. I finally found a "cheat code" that let me enter a service menu and disable it.
deergomoo 5y ago
> full screen! Despite talking the time to make the display show you only relevant things in settings This is a long standing gripe I have with the Apple Watch too—a busy group chat can effectively DDoS you out of being able to use the thing, because notifications are always full screen. There’s also a ~2 second delay before a notification can actually be dismissed, because it has to complete its swoopy animation first. It doesn’t sound too bad, but when your average interaction with a smart watch is 10 seconds or less it becomes a real annoyance.
- genewitch 5y ago
  I'm not a fan of "someone made this art so it will play/display for N seconds every time some thing happens. Not in video games, not on watches, not on phone apps, and my eye is twitching so I can't think of any other examples
tzs 5y ago
Are you just objecting to the method by which the fridge is providing useful performance information to the owner, or are you objecting to the fridge providing that information at all?
zimpenfish 5y ago
> It should also have an arm on the door to slap your hand when you open it for the 41st time in a day. He does say later on that they have kids which perfectly explains why the fridge door is like a turnstile.
29083011397778 5y ago
> my father-in-law's Mazda... the touch screen doesn't work while driving Sounds like it's an older model, and I can tell you from personal experience Mazda, at least, has learned from their mistakes (regarding touchscreens). I know the 2020 models, and I believe much earlier, have all gone back to physical, tactile buttons. Real buttons, not Volkswagon's stupid, stupid capacitive buttons. Watching Jason Camisa dunk on VW's UX was an exercise in vindication for having avoided that horseshit [0]. They are clicky, settings are remembered, and it does what you tell it to do. Frankly, that's all it took for me to insist our new car be a Mazda. And while I apologize for the rant, finding a new car that doesn't tell you to use a touchsceen at 110km/h is far harder than it should be - and what a sad state of affairs that is. [0] https://youtu.be/XGbPHp6QfkQ https://youtu.be/XGbPHp6QfkQ

eric4smith 5y ago

It should lock you out for a configurable time after "n" opens. It can lock the door in the night after dinner to prevent midnight snacking by the kids (or parents). And should tweet to your account to shame you publicly after "n" number of opens. What's the IP address of your fridge (just curious)?

rapnie 5y ago
It will do all those things with its connection to the governments "Fit & Healthy" social credit application that was auto-updated the other day. Wanna complain after it locks you out? The only way to do so is by grabbing a rent-a-bike and cycle 20 miles to the nearest human interest centre. /s?
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  That's some evil totalitarian dystopia, we don't do things this way over here in the West. Our fridge gives you freedom to open and close it how many times you want. More than that, by means of synergy with our health industry partners, it lets your good eating habits give you the best deal on your health insurance plan!
em-bee 5y ago
our freezer does that, every time after you open it, it somehow reduces the pressure (maybe it tries to suck out the warm air) making the door hard to open.
- krapp 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure that's just done with electromagnets.
  - xythobuz 5y ago
    that's really just physics. warm air gets in through the opened door, after closing it rapidly cools down, because air does not hold that much heat energy. Because it cools it contracts, which reduces the pressure inside the freezer, causing the outside air pressure to hold the door shut more firmly. No electromagnets or anything.

hcykb 5y ago

Well at least the email seems useful.

madaxe_again 5y ago

41 times in a day is a lot of door opens, and suggests they need a separate beverage fridge. That should’ve been the message - give the customer a solution, make a sale - but instead, they just went for shame. Folks really underestimate how much opening them door (and then usually leaving it open while you deliberate) wastes energy, and food. If I’m cooking three meals in the day, the fridge gets opened maybe five times - although I do have a separate little fridge for cold drinks.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mkr-hn 5y ago
That little fridge might be a lot less efficient than the big fridge. Some of them use as much or more energy than a big one. You might waste more energy running it and re-cooling it every time you open it for a drink than you would opening the big fridge for drinks even if it's more efficient under the test conditions they use to rate its efficiency.
- madaxe_again 5y ago
  I live entirely off-grid - I know where my energy goes, and what impacts it - but you’re all absolutely correct, we should all leave our freezers stood open 24/7, as it makes no difference.

bvm 5y ago

I am somewhat impressed that he's managing to open the fridge 44 times a day. Is he using it as a filing cabinet?

spuz 5y ago
Kids
- chunkyfunky 5y ago
  Yep, keeping ur kids in the fridge is a great way to keep them fresh for weeks :)
  - blitzar 5y ago
    Just open the door every 20 minutes or so to check on them.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - marcosdumay 5y ago
      But then the fridge would complain that it wasn't run at maximum efficiency.
risfriend 5y ago
I had a small kids party at my home yesterday and it would've easily been opened a total of 50 times or more by various people.
martin_a 5y ago
44 times? Sounds like me in a somewhat depressed phase on a Saturday evening. Nothing extraordinary...
jve 5y ago
Ehh... when eating, easily I always forget someting in the fridge and end up opening it x times. Now that is even after meal is prepared and already opened y times. And then there are number of other people that may want to take something that was not interesting for me. Yeah, bad logistics, but I prefer opening multiple times vs keeping doors opened for longer periods of time.

globular-toast 5y ago

Wow, 44 times a day, on average! That's about once every 20 minutes for the entire day. I can't imagine why anyone would need to access the fridge that often. It's almost like they don't understand what the fridge is for. Anyway, if you don't want this, don't buy it. They either wired their fridge into their network or gave it access to their wifi. What, exactly, did they expect? The guy even keeps saying "it's just a fridge". I just bought a fridge with none of this nonsense. Because it's just a fridge.

tibbydudeza 5y ago
When you have kids you will understand - open the door - looks at the contents - frowns and then closes it again repeated several times during the day. "I was looking for something nice". Explaining that we shop once a week and that the fridge won't magically fill with popsicles before that does not seem to make a difference.
- OJFord 5y ago
  In which case 'hey, someone is opening the door an insane amount, which is not good for the fridge or your food' might be a handy alert, so you know what they're up to and can stop them? (I'm not saying it should be internet connected for that purpose though.)
  - djrogers 5y ago
    > so you know what they're up to and can stop them? Lol, sure - go ahead and stop a 5 year old from checking the fridge a few times a day when here hungry. See how much better that makes your life. Again - when you have kids, you will understand...
    - danhon 5y ago
      THANK. YOU.
    - globular-toast 5y ago

DavideNL 5y ago

Somewhat related: my Netatmo weather station sends me an e-mail every few weeks that i should replace the battery of one of the modules. I assume it doesn’t like rechargeable batteries. I never replace them, can’t disable the e-mail. Support can’t fix this of course. So I’ve setup a server-side e-mail rule to send all netatmo.com emails to the junk to prevent being constantly spammed by them.

TeMPOraL 5y ago
Is it powered off AAs? Rechargeable batteries have lower voltage than non-rechargeable ones[0], so maybe the module is a bit oversensitive when trying to guess the battery is about to die. -- [0] - With batteries I have around the house, it's 1.5V nominal voltage for typical non-rechargeable AA, vs. 1.2V for rechargeables.
- DavideNL 5y ago
  Yea you’re probably right… it’s these batteries: https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-BK-4MCCA8BA-eneloop-Pre-Charged-Rechargeable/dp/B00JHKSMIG/ref=sr_1_3 https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-BK-4MCCA8BA-eneloop-Pre-Cha...
- greenshackle2 5y ago
  However the voltage on alkaline batteries drops pretty linearly from 1.5v to 1.0v, while rechargeables maintain close to 1.2V for most of their discharge, then drops off quickly: https://www.boat-project.com/tutorials/aa_batteries.htm https://www.boat-project.com/tutorials/aa_batteries.htm That's why rechargeables work in most devices, since alkalines are 1.2v or below for a good chunk of their useful life anyway, most devices are designed to work fine with 1.2v. If a device actually needs 1.3+V to function properly, alkalines won't last long, you'll want to use 1.5V lithium batteries.
  - genewitch 5y ago
    Aren't all the lithium batteries of the sort you're talking about labelled as 3v? A lithium cell would need a buck circuit to do 1.5v

qwerty456127 5y ago

Be glad it doesn't (yet) shame your eco-ignorance on Facebook, doesn't tell your insurance company you occasionally buy bacon and doesn't call the police for you infringing their intellectual property by refusing to buy new genuine filters often enough. "Smart" home devices which are not open-source and not under your full control are a horror. I would break it open and remove the WiFi antenna if I had no choice of buying a non-connected one. I've bought a robo vacuum cleaner recently. Luckily there still are 100% offline models available. Unluckily they all are overly stupid, can't have lidars and map your home (while I can see no reason why this has to require Internet access and can't be implemented an autonomous way).

cirrrrrrus 5y ago
> can't have lidars and map your home (while I can see no reason why this has to require Internet access and can't be implemented an autonomous way). This is a great comment. I would love smart appliances (e.g. Lidar-equipped robot vacuum cleaner) that are 100% offline. If anyone has a list of smart yet offline appliances, I’d love to shop there.
- Vinnl 5y ago
  It's not limited to just offline products, but Mozilla makes a shopping guide every year where it rates the privacy impact of products including, it seems, robo vacuum cleaners: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  I can remember someone mentioned an old model (supposedly possible to find on eBay) which could be hacked to run a vendor-imitating server on itself and connect to it via localhost.
  - dugite-code 5y ago
    A few of the Xaiomi's and Viomi's are rootable. I have a Gen1 Xaiomi and it's brilliant. I got ssh access to the ubuntu install and installed https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo and run it 100% local via my home-assistant install. dgiese is a proficient vacuum security researcher and has most of that stuff available here: https://github.com/dgiese/dustcloud https://github.com/dgiese/dustcloud

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mellavora 5y ago

"Does anyone want any toast?" (oblic. Red Dwarf ref)

mattowen_uk 5y ago
For those that don't get it: https://youtu.be/LRq_SAuQDec https://youtu.be/LRq_SAuQDec
dTal 5y ago
One wonders how such a perfect satire of smart devices was written 30 years ago. Was the trend visible even then?
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  The hazards and wonders of home automation/smart homes and artificial home assistants have been a topic of sci-fi for ages.
  - dTal 5y ago
    Indeed, but the aspect of the Red Dwarf toaster that really lands today is the unnecessarily extreme sophistication, coupled with the unrelenting effort to occupy more and more of the user's life. Douglas Adams touched upon these themes as well, generally via the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation, but it wasn't quite so-on-the-nose.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

helsinkiandrew 5y ago

How long until some manufacturer sells a basic fridge and then a 'frequent use service pack' monthly fee that lets you open the door more than the standard number of times a day?

blitzar 5y ago
Can I roll over my unused opens from today to tomorrow?
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  No, but eventually the regulators will catch up and force the fridge companies to simply charge you by the second for the time the doors are opened above some generous free plan.
  - blitzar 5y ago
    If I get behind on my opening allowence I will just have to stay up till midnight when my opens reset, grab everything I can and stack it on the counter for the day.
    - TeMPOraL 5y ago
      You think of it as a clever hack, but the data analyst at your health insurer, seeing the sudden midnight disappearance of half of the stuff in your fridge, may view it as a symptom of depression.
      - blitzar 5y ago
        Damn, then they will put me on medication that will push up my appetite and make me go to the fridge more. It is like big fridge is in bed with big food which is in bed with big pharma. At least I wont be anxious when the bill for my fridge door opening comes at the end of the month.
        5y ago

blitzar 5y ago

I think this guys point is that he needs everyone to know he paid an extra $2,000 for a 'smart' fridge. All while mentioning that he doesnt want or like the 'smart' bit.

DoingIsLearning 5y ago
Well the risk is if the appliances world goes the way of TV panel displays, where the 'smart' component is used to finance a cheaper TV by later selling your data to advertisers/broadcasters. It could be that tomorrow the Smart fridge is the cheaper option because the manufacturer will use your data to price-cut the competitors initial price tag. It could be that in a not so far future you will pay a premium for having a dumb fridge, and we will see HN posts on how to build a faraday cage for the LTE antennas on your fridge.
- blitzar 5y ago
  Absolutely, but unlike the TV example today if you want 'smart' in your fridge you have to actively seek it out and hand over a pile of extra cash. It is hard to have sympathy for a person complaining about a feature, they say they didnt want, that they specifically paid a lot of extra money for. But it turns out he litterally did it so he could go on twitter and moan about it.
HanaShiratori 5y ago
Especially since he configured some kind of app or service and let it know his email address.
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  Vendors tend to offer perks for that, like extended warranties, so it's hard to really blame them. The e-mail history at https://twitter.com/hondanhon/status/1436030530781278210 https://twitter.com/hondanhon/status/1436030530781278210 makes it plausible that the account was set up to make use of whatever the "LG Proactive Customer Care" nonsense is.
5y ago

bloak 5y ago

It might be a good idea to take account of how long the door stays open. For me, making a cup of tea involves opening the fridge door twice but for less than a second on each occasion: to get the milk out, and to put the milk back. There's an alternative, of course: opening it once and leaving it open for about ten seconds. Timings are approximate. In any case, I don't need e-mail about it. I hope there's an "unsubscribe" button.

bruce343434 5y ago
Since cold air is denser, I always understood that when you open a vertical cooler the cold air just flows out like a fluid (gas) and is displaced by warm air. This is also why it's good to keep your fridge full, so that it has some thermal mass to it. It's also one of the reasons horizontal freezers are so efficient.
- OJFord 5y ago
  To the extent even that supermarkets can get away with having completely open-topped aisle-long chest freezers. Matthias Wandel has done some related fridge/freezer experiments I saw recently via Youtube: https://woodgears.ca/heating/freezer.html https://woodgears.ca/heating/freezer.html https://woodgears.ca/heating/fridge.html https://woodgears.ca/heating/fridge.html (Particularly the (upright) freezer one is more directly about temperature & door opening, from what I recall.)

hamburgerwah 5y ago

I am mystified by people that will give appliances access to a network.

aaronmdjones 5y ago
Appliances are starting to come with their own integrated 3G/4G modems these days. You don't need to give them access to anything; they already have it.
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  Really? Why would they spend the money to do that?
  - bruce343434 5y ago
    Data is the new oil is the new gold
- globular-toast 5y ago
  Do you have any examples?

dTal 5y ago

The problem here isn't that the fridge is tracking door opens. That seems like a good application for a "smart" appliance - tracking how usage patterns affect its internal state and holding a dialogue with the user. The problem is that it used email, which comes across as passive aggressive in the same way it would if a human did it. If it just showed a notification on a screen, I don't think we'd be having this discussion. I think, if appliances are going to be "smart", it's time we started holding them to similar standards of behavior to humans. Our machines are learning to talk; now they need to learn not to be rude.

gonzo41 5y ago
It'd be better if it along with other devices could set a family meeting and your smart TV could replay clips of your miss use to use whilst alexa chides you. It'd be like a family meeting almost.
bellyfullofbac 5y ago
At least it's email and not another stupid phone app they force you to install...
defaultname 5y ago
The fridge emailed basically a performance report to the address that he configured on setup. One of the performance report items is that it had been opened a lot, which does impact efficiency and food longevity. It didn't email a complaint. It did precisely what he configured it to do (I will go on a limb and presume the fridge didn't guess his email address), and presumably what he expected it to do given that he paid a large premium for a "smart" fridge. There is no problem here beyond that often Twitter makes everyone a comedian/performance artist and people often take their routines a little too seriously.
- djrogers 5y ago
  > It didn't email a complaint. It did precisely what he configured it to do From the tweets: > I don’t even remember giving permission for our fridge to email. Also, if you read the thread, this seems to be a new 'feature' they've added since he set it up - the fridge was silent for a year, then boom - stupid email.

chmod775 5y ago

If any of your basic kitchen appliances connect to the internet, I will forever use you as a punchline. Even if I didn't, it'd probably not be worth it.

xaedes 5y ago

In Battlestar Galactica humanity's last defense was this big "dumb" battlestar spaceship with sparsly connected systems. Sometimes it feels like the internet (of things) is the breeding ground of the Cylons in our world.

tov247 5y ago
This is the approach I have to computers controlling things in my home, it's fine if they are computers, but I don't want them connected.
bserge 5y ago
But the Cylons are human... oh wait
unethical_ban 5y ago
I resent that consumer IoT is almost always required to connect to a cloud service. I love the idea of an IoT house - smart lamps, smart locks, cameras, climate conrtol, etc. I only want them connected to my LAN. If I want to access any of their controls remotely, I will set up a VPN or otherwise they should provide a jump service locally, not require cloud connectivity.
- increscent 5y ago
  Check out this project! https://trmm.net/Ikea/ https://trmm.net/Ikea/ Apparently, the firmware on some IKEA smart home devices can be easily flashed.

pvaldes 5y ago

Pretty dystopic feeling. Another early case of machines intelligence replacing man while still learning the stuff. Is a global plague if we think in how many things stopped being smart of logical in the last years. Enter your phone here to do anything (unrelated with phones) is one of my favorites.

tester34 5y ago

would disabling wifi prevent this?

tgv 5y ago

Can I hold my breath while waiting for ransomware for fridges?

genewitch 5y ago
It'd be pretty stupid to risk prison for "remotely disabling someone's smart refrigerator" since you couldn't ransom for more than a dumb refrigerator (which your victim would probably get) - probably within like 25% of that and they'll just put the bricked fridge in the dump.
- tgv 5y ago
  You could make it thaw the contents of the freezer, or stop it from cooling altogether, I think. Indeed, they can't demand a lot of money, but not so long ago, they were holding private users' computers to ransom for relatively low amounts. Many small amounts make a big one.

quotemstr 5y ago

I bet somebody got a really nice bonus for that feature https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20061101-03/?p=29153 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20061101-03/?p=29...

glitchc 5y ago

Just set the email to bugs@lg.com. Problem solved. Why sign up at all? It can only send you an email if you tell it your address.

maverwa 5y ago
Hi kind of answers this: I connected it to the internet because knowing about internet connected things and *how they work in real life* is kinda part of my job I thinks that fair. If you job is consulting "on technology and its role in society", then experiencing these things is reasonable.

beervirus 5y ago

I set up a raspberry pi thermometer in our freezer that would email me once a day with a temperature log (hourly averages), and also email me immediately if the temperature ever got too high. But dammit, I opted in for those emails! (It was a freezer full of the most precious commodity, breast milk. And it actually did save us one time when the freezer thermostat failed, so it was absolutely worth the hassle.)

lom 5y ago
Ha! Last time I tried putting a rpi into a fridge… for cooling - it broke because of the humidity :) Should’ve used the freezer.
- beervirus 5y ago
  Oh I only put the actual temperature sensor inside. Ran some thin wires out to the pi under the door gasket.
  - tzs 5y ago
    I too have an RPi logging fridge/freezer temperature, but wirelessly. I use this wireless fridge/freezer thermometer [1]. The units that go in the fridge and freezer communicate with the display unit via 433 MHz RF. I have an RTL-SDR [2] on the RPi. I run rtl_433 [3] on the RPi. rtl_433 understands the protocols of a large number of wireless sensors, including the ones used by those AcuRite sensors. I've got it configured to output whatever sensor data it decodes in JSON format to a file, and a script that periodically parses new entries from that file and records in an sqlite DB the readings from the sensors I'm interested in. Rtl_433 is a fun program. It recognizes and decodes the transmissions of a lot of things. It is getting several neighbor's wireless thermometers and humidity sensors, a soil moisture sensor, several different car tire pressure sensors, a smoke detector, some kind of keypad (wireless lock?), a car remote, some kind of energy monitor, a rain gauge, and a wind speed/direction sensor. [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QJVU78/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QJVU78/ [2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009U7WZCA/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009U7WZCA/ [3] https://github.com/merbanan/rtl_433 https://github.com/merbanan/rtl_433

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OneTimePetes 5y ago

Automate the user instead of re-designing the product. What is needed, is a cold air recycling suction device, that similar to the open fridges in super market, stores the cold air that flows out like a waterfall - in a waterfall. But instead, lets harass the user.

FpUser 5y ago

I was sort of shocked when I went to buy some gizmo for my car on Amazon and it told me that this particular one will not fit my particular car make and model. Other than whatever is required by law I never told any company about what car if any I own.

kadoban 5y ago
Someone on your account likely chose it from the options for a previous item, it remembers those choices.
- FpUser 5y ago
  I do not share my account with anyone and this was my first and last ever car related purchase on Amazon
bserge 5y ago
Unlikely but could be possible by using license plate and owner information in some countries where it is (or was) public information.
opwieurposiu 5y ago
Car dealers sell your info when you buy the car. Mostly used to try and sell you third party extended warranty and the like.

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago

That thread is a riot! Thanks for sharing it.

MarkusWandel 5y ago

I recently bought a 32" 4K monitor. Two different models were at at that point inexpensive enough to tempt me. A smart one, and different brand, dumb one for $50 more. I bought the latter. I'm happy. The market decides, right? What is actually happening here? 1. Most people actually like this overdone gimmickry? 2. Most people think they will like it, buy it and then get sick of it? Thus people like me, who seek out the ungimmicked product, are not a significant market force? 3. Most people would prefer not to have it, but due to a free market failure, the ungimmicked product just isn't available any more? The gimmicks are everywhere. We have a basic "Instant Pot" pressure cooker. It has just the right amount of electronic smarts. A few button presses to cook a roast to completion in about an hour, and walk away. It beeps when it's done. With later models you see an almost obsessive drive to load them up with more features, few of which anyone will ever use.

codesections 5y ago
> 3. Most people would prefer not to have it, but due to a free market failure, the ungimmicked product just isn't available any more? No, I'd go with (4) people would prefer not to have it, but companies know that they can monitize the data they collect[0] and thus are willing to offer a discount that's large enough to get people (who may or may not know about the data collection) to buy the smart™ version. [0]: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2019/02/21/why-tvs-so-cheap-now-your-smart-tv-spying-you-money/2910013002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2019/02/21/w...
- caymanjim 5y ago
  This, and also people simply don't know. Your average consumer buying a TV has no idea what metrics the device is capturing and sharing, or that by connecting it to the Internet, they're not just receiving information, they're sending it. Even cynical/paranoid tech-savvy people are caught off guard when real-time personalized ads start showing up in the on-screen menus of their Internet-connected devices, and would be annoyed to know that their usage patterns are monitored even when they aren't explicitly using an Internet service like Netflix.
- 5y ago

caymanjim 5y ago

I have a semi-related anecdote about surprises from devices. I use a CPAP. After a year, I went back to the doctor for a followup, and was asked to bring the SD card so they could review the data it collects. The device records the times and duration of use, various settings, and some metrics on breathing (apnea events, etc). I knew it recorded this stuff on an SD card. I brought the card to the appointment, but the doctor said "I don't need that, I have your data here." It turns out that the CPAP contains a cellular modem, and it phones home and reports in real-time. I had no idea this thing was recording any data at all. It wasn't verbally disclosed to me by either the doctor or the equipment technicians. I imagine there's something buried in the fine print of the (long lost) documentation, possibly even in the fine print of some form I signed, but I was caught off guard and none too pleased. I've since done some research on this and discussed it with my new doctor when it came time to get a new CPAP. The doctor acted surprised by me having a problem with it. She immediately jumped to the defense of the manufacturer and insurance company, claiming that they "needed" that data. She said that if I disabled it, insurance would refuse coverage. This is insanely invasive, even with disclosure, and ought to be illegal without explicit, obvious verbal and written disclosure. The insurance defense is complete bullshit. For one, I paid cash for the CPAP because I had a high-deductible insurance plan and would have had to pay out-of-pocket anyway (and never claimed it even for the deductible offset). I realize a CPAP isn't a fridge, and there's at least a case to be made for insurance enforcing compliance (at least when insurance claims are involved). I don't agree with the undisclosed enforcement mechanism, nor do I agree that treatment should be contingent on monitoring (it is for some other treatments, but not for most; no one is monitoring diet, exercise, drug use, cigarette consumption, or other risky behaviors, and threatening to withhold treatment for non-compliance). Anyway, I've ranted enough, but there's a serious problem with the normalization of surveillance technology.

larrik 5y ago
Interesting, this was made super clear to me, and even included instructions to leave it plugged in for at least 40 minutes after waking up in the morning so it can communicate. Generally the insurance companies don't like paying for supplies for people who aren't actually using them, and need to see that you use it for an average of 4 hours per night or whatever.

burnt_toast 5y ago

For a long time now I've been naming my computers things like "LG Refrigerator" or "LG Microwave" as a joke. I thought it'd be funny if someone was ever checking the network and saw them pop up. I'm bummed that fridges actually use the internet now.

TheCapn 5y ago
I named things more obscenely. My livingroom TV's chromecast is "Secret Sex Dungeon TV". I recently learned that when my network is out, Chromecasts broadcast their own wifi hotspot as a way for you to configure them using the name they were set up with. I hope my neighbors don't mind knowing I have a Secret Sex Dungeon and a Torture Room with smart devices. oops.

rtkaratekid 5y ago

My appliances are not allowed to have strong opinions. And when they have opinions at all, they’re not allowed to communicate them except for the most subtle of ways. “Oh you’re emitting a nice, quiet ring because you think the fridge door has been open too long? That’s nice, it’s going to be open a bit longer.” Heaven help my toaster if it ever stops mid toast because it thinks the bread is already done.

nimbius 5y ago

somewhat offtopic but for those looking to get a 'dumb' fridge (or any other kitchen/laundry appliance) your city probably has a small appliances shop that will sell you most of a kitchen for a bargain. these are used ranges, freezers, washers/dryers that are fully serviced and in many cases come with a warranty from the shop.

umvi 5y ago

Well presumably this person connected their fridge to WiFi so what did they expect. It's not like the fridge connected to a cell network or something.

mikalauskas 5y ago
Moreover, this person registered an account and linked his fridge.

bgro 5y ago

Some day soon we'll get to Fridge As A Service. Dear end user. This is your first and final warning. You have surpassed your monthly amount of fridge openings.

eplanit 5y ago

I had a new A/C installed in my house a few years ago. The technician asked for the wifi password so that the A/C could connect. He was very puzzled when I laughed and told him no, the A/C has no need for the Internet. He went on and on about controlling the thermostat from an app...and how the date/time would always be in sync. At first I got very concerned that it was required, and was preparing for a very unpleasant conversation about how they would have to replace it with a different model. Fortunately, it was an option...that year.

theNJR 5y ago

My Bosch fridge claimed it would notify if the door stayed open. I read that to me I’d get a native push notification after a time threshold I can set. That would be a very useful feature. Oh how foolish I was. No, it’s an app that requires a whole mess of registration. They better not email me a report card like this guy.

ziml77 5y ago
Does it at least give you warnings that don't involve the app? My parents don't have "smart" appliances, but their fridge chimes when the door is left open too long. And they have a freezer in their basement which latches on an indicator if the temperature inside went above freezing. Both useful ways of providing a warning without app bullshit.
- 0xffff2 5y ago
  Of course it does. I've recently purchase a new washer/dryer and a Bosch fridge. All three units have some kind of connectivity built in, but I just peeled off the stickers telling me how to connect and threw them in the trash. They work just like their old non-smart counterparts as far as I can tell.
8note 5y ago
I think that's the only useful feature a smart refrigerator can really offer, unless it figured out how to order more groceries or suggest recipes based in what's in your fridge. Getting the door open notification seems pretty easy, too. I bet a smart lightbulb could alarm if it's been on too long

unixhero 5y ago

Anti feature

xyzzy21 5y ago

NEVER buy an internet-connectable appliance!! Certainly never connect any internet-connectable appliance to the actual internet!! Certainly never provide any personal information to any internet-connectable appliance that is on the actual internet!! You are an idiot if you violate any of these. Just grow a spine and don't do stupid things that are obviously dangerous or invasive.

npteljes 5y ago
I mean, the tweets are funny, but the guy gave the fridge his email address at a time, no? So what was the expectation?
thrownaway810 5y ago
Can you find me a OLED 4K HDR TV that’s sold in Australia at a consumer level that has no internet connectability? I’ve been searching for months, I’m yet to find out. The market has varied enough that I can’t see a way to avoid it and still have a TV that supports modern imagery enhancements and standards.

Havoc 5y ago

Maybe this is what is burying Krebs with that ddos

nazgulnarsil 5y ago

Good products disappear from consciousness Shitty products drive "engagement"

7357 5y ago

Is there a named rule that relates smart devices users to how dumb their owners are?

sjs382 5y ago

I got a Samsung fridge recently, our first "french door" fridge. The mechanism that keeps the space between the doors sealed has failed often enough (keeping the left door open) that I've actually been thankful for "the fridge has been open for a few minutes" push notifications.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

When will it text you if your partner is having an affair?