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TikTok overtakes YouTube for average watch time in US and UK

anshumankmr 5y ago
Something as massive as YouTube can be beaten. This feels like the circle of life, considering every empire that rises eventually falls too. Though I am not saying TikTok is the doom for YouTube since geo politics will play a significant role its future. And there are other metrics by which TikTok hasn’t probably caught up with YouTube yet like the size of the user base, revenue etc. What seems odd is how TikTok is managing this. YouTube is popular among all demographics, the diversity of content is mind bogglingly high whereas (I presume) TikTok is popular among the crowd who are either going to highschool or in college. Its primary purpose is entertainment, so how did it beat YouTube exactly?
- okamiueru 5y ago
  Don't they serve very different demographics and/or interests? I've been assuming TikTok is the equivalent of "what is trending today", where "what" is something related to dance moves, or other stuff I don't find very interesting. (Or, it's not that I find dance moves uninteresting, it's just that it's not something I'd want to spend time consuming). Are my assumptions wrong, and there is genuinely interesting, and more in depth content on TikTok? Also, the whole thought of a video platform devoted to teenagers filming themselves dance ... is... well, to be honest, a bit creepy. But I suppose this is a concern for just a part of the content if my assumptions are wrong. Ps: Just to clear, I'm not saying there isn't creative things or something to learn or expand some kind of understanding through TikTok. Just that, surely, there isn't much overlap between YouTube and a platform limited to 15 second video clips? Especially one, that for someone who has never used it, seems mostly limited to teenagers filming themselves dance?
  - anshumankmr 5y ago
    I have never installed TikTok or watched any content on it. I assume it is a spiritual successor to Vine.
  - ItsMonkk 5y ago
    While dance content is the most popular, the system that recommends videos allows a factor of magnitude more niches than other platforms. In no way is TT limited to dance. Within the first day I stopped seeing dance content. If you want to post stuff that would do well here, it would do well on TikTok.
  - fragmede 5y ago
    Is the barrier to entry (installing yet another app on your phone) onerous in some way that I don't see? Otherwise it seems straightforwards enough to install the app for yourself and see what's on there. There's a ton of content that isn't thirst traps (aka teenagers dancing), but while that's an interesting question to dig in to, if enough people switch mediums (from newspapers to radio to TV to YouTube to Tiktok), there doesn't have to be an overlap for one to largely supplant the next. How's the New York Times doing these days?
  - blahedo 5y ago
    > dance moves, or other stuff I don't find very interesting There are lots of different corners of TikTok, and for good or bad it's generally pretty good at forming some fairly niche communities. I have a couple of primarily dance-oriented creators I follow—none of them teenagers, fwiw—but the most interesting are the ones who use their platform to educate, whether it be about science-y stuff or music or history or whatever; I've learned a lot from following a substantial group of Black creators who've taken the time to talk about their lived experiences. These communities with somewhat deeper content really took off when the platform opened up 60 second videos (I gather that was late in 2020?) and they've mostly gotten even better now that creators (at least some of us?) can make 3-minute videos. It's all based on what you like and follow, though. Very early on, it's worthwhile to go out-of-band to track down names of a few creators that you can seed your for-you-page with, otherwise you'll get the lowest common denominator stuff. Sometimes someone will "duet" or "stitch" another video and then you're introduced to another creator and can follow them directly; other times the FYP itself will serve up someone you've never seen or heard of but that has content (and presumably like-and-follow patterns) similar to the ones you do follow. And then you can like and/or follow the new person. I mean, there's thirst traps too. If those were the only videos you liked, then that's what it would show you.
    - okamiueru 5y ago
      Based on the suggestions here, I went ahead and looked for myself, and I'm impressed by how fast and accurate TikTok figured out what I liked. After about two minutes, all it showed me was a combination tools, nature, animals, and woodworking. I have a more niche hobbies like 3d printing and electronics which I'm sure it'll pick up within enough time, but, not a single video of what I assumed almost all videos were. I'm happy to be wrong, and I get why TikTok is so popular.
- zaik 5y ago
  It would be nice to see YouTube beaten by a more open platform like PeerTube. TikTok is just another proprietary app run by a for-profit company.
  - anshumankmr 5y ago
    It would be nice but unless some massive VC backs it to market it and help it scale, or content creators become aware about it and jump ship, it won’t make a big dent.
- simonh 5y ago
  I think they're just different markets. YT is doing fine, revenue is up 30% YOY and all their viewer and channel growth numbers are very healthy.
  - anshumankmr 5y ago
    YT has some knock-off of Stories but I have never used it. But unfortunately a lot of creators I watch (even some guys who explain very involved technical stuff) make videos for it now and label it #shorts which is annoying since I usually watch YouTube on my laptop or iPad.
- toshk 5y ago
  To be fair, Youtube VS TikTok is mostly the wrong comparison. Tiktok is mostly competing with the Insta/Facebook I need distraction so I'll let myself be numbed with external impulses as fast as I can get. Most similar was the story feature in Instagram, often also videos, although nobody every compared viewing them with Youtube. Although Youtube also has it's scroll/impulsive it's not a direct competition. Although you could argue any form of time consumption (online) is competition.
  - anshumankmr 5y ago
    I would not go as far as saying the comparison is wrong. From what I have read about the platform, it is a video sharing platform where teenagers can also insert currently trending music and share the content. There is also a home feed that works automatically by finding the best video suggested by an algorithm. So based on that description, it is fair to compare it to YouTube. I agree YouTube /Instagram/Snapchat stories feature is closer to the experience of TikTok. Though I making a guess since I have only read about it and seen some screenshots.
    - ipaddr 5y ago
      Tiktok videos are on average a few seconds to a maximum of 3 minutes (which is rare to see anything over a minute). A youtube video is 5-10 minutes on average. Comparing apples and oranges only works if are talking about a fruit salad.
- neither_color 5y ago
  I think they're very different platforms serving completely different content. I see tiktok as instagram/twitter/snapchat's competition rather than youtube's. If you go back several years on youtube(like 10 years back) you'll find a lot more casual low-res videos of people being goofy/interesting without any agenda to build a following. Nowadays youtubers are all "Hey guys thanks for clicking on my clickbait title don't forget to smash that like button and subscribe I know you're here because of the title but I'm going to do a long intro about something else because I really need this to be 10 minutes long." To be fair many of these are great documentary/educational/infotainment/explainer series on Youtube that I won't find anywhere else. Wendover or Real Engineering are more well-known examples but there's a long-tail of niche history and economics accounts I like to follow that formats like tiktok won't serve anytime soon.
  - fragmede 5y ago
    The lowered barrier to entry with TikTok and its algorithm means that someone with a PhD in an extremely esoteric field can do a quick presentation without having to make TikTok their new career. Real Engineering is great, but they didn't randomly fire off one YouTube video and get where they are today.
    - SilverRed 5y ago
      TikTok is also absolutely filled with pseudo informative content which looks exactly like this but the statements and numbers are complete garbage. Because the platform does not put much weight behind users and names, this stuff is just as prominent as the real content.
- xnx 5y ago
  The amount of commenting by people who have (proudly?) never used Tiktok in this thread is staggering.
- vitorgrs 5y ago
  Tiktok is more popular than just young people. I actually discovered tiktok was a thing because of... my mother, who used it. The algorithms is insane, and it works for any age. The age demographic for now is probably because young people tend to download new apps first than old people.
iratewizard 5y ago
Thanks to the gross incompetence of Susan Wojcicki and Google abandoning their old motto, "don't be evil".
- tester756 5y ago
  "abandoning"? it's still there.
  - iratewizard 5y ago
    > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil > formerly
    - tester756 5y ago
      It's still present in CoC >https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/ https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/ >And remember… don’t be evil, and if you see something that you think isn’t right – speak up!
JoshTko 5y ago
TikTok has two advantages - first, an order more user data to refine it's feed algorithm and second a format that lowers the bar for content creation which allows for super niche content to be viable. The combination enables a feed that resonates.
- ourcat 5y ago
  Their recommendation algorithm is reportedly the envy of many other platforms. I heard that was pretty much what was being bid for at the time offers started floating around.
  - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
    TikTok always gets a zero or 1 on each video, whereas FB only get interactions for a minority of units. This makes it a lot easier to train better models.
axpy906 5y ago
Wonder what comparisons are possible for YT as MySpace and TikTok as Facebook? Seems like history is playing itself out again.
ourcat 5y ago
"YouTube still leads TikTok in overall time spent..." What's the longest length video that TikTok supports? (I don't use it)
- umeshunni 5y ago
  15 minutes
  - ourcat 5y ago
    Wow. Thank you. I had no idea about that. I had assumed it would be much, much shorter.
    - M2Ys4U 5y ago
      That's very new, though. Even 3 minute videos haven't been around for more than a few months.
      - ourcat 5y ago
        Ah I see. I remember when YouTube had quite a short cap on length years ago (10-15 minutes iirc), which is why I started using vimeo at the time.
  - yunusabd 5y ago
    Latest info I could find was 5 minutes max [1], where did you see 15? [1] https://www.socialmediatoday.com/news/tiktoks-testing-even-longer-video-uploads-as-it-looks-to-expand-its-presen/605603/ https://www.socialmediatoday.com/news/tiktoks-testing-even-l...
    - umeshunni 5y ago
      I was wrong. It's 5 minutes.
- blahedo 5y ago
  There are three categories, with slightly different capabilities and interfaces for each, capped at 15s, 60s, and 3m. The short ones were originally the only ones, 60s became available about a year ago (?), and 3m only just over the summer (and I'm not sure they're even available to all creators yet; they had a slow rollout).
MathCodeLove 5y ago
I feel like I'm going crazy. Hasn't TikTok been proven malicious in it's excessive user tracking and data theft? Why does everyone I know still use it? Outside of privacy concerns, doesn't the blackbox algorithm make anyone worry? We're building automated echochambers for an entire population. We're giving a Chinese company the ability to control the content consumption, and therefore beliefs and knowledge, of entire countries. The ever growing popularity of tiktok is, to me, extremely concerning.
- toshk 5y ago
  kids use it
- ed25519FUUU 5y ago
  There was a man who tried to force TikTok out of the US or out of Chinese control…
  - quickthrowman 5y ago
    Let’s be honest about it: the former president was trying to reward Larry Ellison for his support, that’s all it was and that’s why it didn’t happen.
    - ed25519FUUU 5y ago
      Actually it did happen, and was reversed this year. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/09/biden-revokes-and-replaces-trump-executive-orders-that-banned-tiktok.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/09/biden-revokes-and-replaces-t...
- jeromegv 5y ago
  How is that different than Facebook? We have known for Facebook shady data policies for 10 years, and that has never prevented people from using it, why do you think suddenly people would care more when it comes to TikTok?
  - 5y ago
ridaj 5y ago
It's not a great metric by itself. There are two ways that "average watch time" can increase: users becoming more engaged, and less-engaged users dropping out of the app. It's a concern if it means that TikTok is becoming a youth-only app, for example.
m12k 5y ago
TikTok seems emblematic of China's overall approach compared to the West - shows up late to the party, but studies all those hard-won lessons to copy and later surpass the most successful Western products. The free market is great at finding the superior product, but it's also messy and wasteful with all those failed attempts - why not just sit it out until a winner starts to emerge, then copy them? China seems to have perfected the art of the fast follower.
- simonh 5y ago
  Tiktok is very much a product of the 'free market' segment in China. The government does have a minority ownership stake in it now, but that's very recent and they played no role in it's founding by Zhang Yiming, a programmer and serial app and online service founder.
  - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
    Yeah, my understanding is that the recommendation engine was already developed for a news app popular in India, and that they grafted this onto Musical.ly (the acquisition which has now become TikTok). Also, they spent many, many millions on ads to get the app everywhere.
    - Mehdi2277 5y ago
      Millions? They spent a lot more than 10s of millions on advertising. They spent roughly a billion on advertising and probably are one of the most advertised products ever in spending. https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktoks-videos-are-goofy-its-strategy-to-dominate-social-media-is-serious-11561780861 https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktoks-videos-are-goofy-its-st...
      - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
        many, many millions can be approximately equal to 1bn. I am aware that they advertised a lot, but didn't have (and wouldn't trust) any figures provided on this, as I've seen how wrong they can be.
jeffbee 5y ago
Exactly what malware do people install to get on "App Annie" panel? Is it the "Phone Guardian VPN: Safe Wifi" garbage I see in the Play Store? People really will install anything. Perhaps the conclusion should be changed to "Clueless dupes who install spyware also more likely to prefer TikTok".
game_the0ry 5y ago
A couple of years ago, I noticed the youtube recommendations that would get were a lot less interesting, though still relevant to me somehow. At some point I started seeing a lot more "mainstream" content, especially after media companies figured out that they needed to have a youtube presence in order to stay relevant. So I wonder if the algorithm the switched to had something to do with them potentially losing attention from users. I can't speak to tik tok, never used it, never will.
- jpomykala 5y ago
  I feel the same. Recommendations are as simple on youtube as “get top 10 videos in your country”
- finfinfin 5y ago
  Every TikTok user I know tells me that the primary reason they use it is the algorithm. Apparently it’s way ahead of YouTube. Anecdotally I am in the same boat as you—ended up removing the YouTube suggestion sidebar with an adblocker due to its increasingly poor quality.
  - _fat_santa 5y ago
    One anecdote that I heard about the TikTok algo is that it favors new creators with <5k subscribers and actively pushes that content to new users. This is opposed to how Youtube does it, where more established creators are pushed over news ones. I feel like this is what really helps TikTok always have fresh content. If you want to become a YouTuber, the path to having a good following can be years of grind. With TikTok, there is a good shot your first video might just propel you to stardom. Thus more people are inclined to create content for TikTok. It creates a feedback loop
    - finfinfin 5y ago
      This is interesting. I think this approach goes hand in hand with a much lower quality bar on TikTok. We have an expectation that YouTube videos have a certain production quality, so pushing new creators would often result in unmet expectations. On TikTok new creators can record a 15 second dance and be instantly indistinguishable quality-wise from more experienced creators.
behnamoh 5y ago
Well, who would have thought it would only take a short period of time until tt overtakes yt.
tarkin2 5y ago
This is a hit for US cultural dominance and influence. Americans and Brits, at least in average watch time, are now consuming media ultimately controlled by the Chinese government. And the previous election was influenced by a foreign government using American social media networks to influence, not to mention influencing the president-elect directly. Either America's own social networks are used against them or social networks controlled by other countries are gaining dominance. It seems nothing other than a decline in American influence in the world. And it comes from other countries outperforming the Americans. Whether America reacts to this or ignores it through the arrogance of the current greatest will define American power in the world for generations.
- nova22033 5y ago
  This is a bit of hit for US cultural dominance and influence. How so? Almost everything I watch on tiktok is made by American content creators..Is TikTok proper even available to Chinese residents?
  - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
    Nope, there's a different app for China, called Douyin I believe.
  - tarkin2 5y ago
    And is ultimately controlled by the Chinese government
  - im3w1l 5y ago
    Let's say one American says "China good" another American says "China bad". TikTok can make sure that former gets more views.
    - justicezyx 5y ago
      And we all know that that's not what happens now on any major non Chinese media platforms. The reality is that most of these platforms demonize China good contents and their creators, applying double standards https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-01-22/YouTubers-under-fire-for-pro-China-content-talk-back--XgtXt9xHmo/index.html https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-01-22/YouTubers-under-fire-f...
JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
15 seconds is the attention span teachers are going to have to compete with and try to teach. YouTube wasn’t mindless and short enough.
ericls 5y ago
It’s the new drug
CapriciousCptl 5y ago
Note that this is watch time *per active user* lest anyone interprets the title as TikTok having more total active user-time.
nova22033 5y ago
However, YouTube retains the top spot for overall time spent - not per user - as it has many more users overall. Burying the lede here BBC...
blondin 5y ago
youtube is my main streaming platform, but i have come to understand the appeal of tiktok. most of the things that are inherent to the tiktok platform, i have to manually do while using youtube. a couple of examples are manually ignoring click-baits, overly long videos and explanations, multiple parts videos (some are genuine, but most are bad-intentioned), creators and channels i don't care about, etc.
buryat 5y ago
TikTok will surpass both Youtube/Instagram in terms of videos watched, tiktok will also change the way we consume content and how we interact with it. They also came further in solving comments to videos unlike Youtube where comments section is a toxic wasteland.
DalasNoin 5y ago
The headline is a bit misleading in the article: "average time per user spent on the apps is higher for TikTok... However, YouTube retains the top spot for overall time spent - not per user - as it has many more users overall." The average TikTok user spents more time, which is still interesting. Maybe kids just have more time on their hands.
- ajkdhcb2 5y ago
  I've also spent an unholy amount of time on youtube but never installed the app. Why watch videos on my phone...
nkotov 5y ago
I believe it. Nowadays, I watch perhaps 1-2 videos a day on Youtube. The addictive endless scrolling of content on Tiktok means I'm spending on average an hour a day.
- the_third_wave 5y ago
  Sounds like it is time to add TikTok to you blocklist and get back an hour a day. Add the following to whatever filter/blocklist you use and rejoice in all that regained freedom: # TikTok abtest-va-tiktok.byteoversea.com api16-core-c-alisg.tiktokv.com api16-core-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com api16-core-c-useast2a.tiktokv.com api16-core-va.tiktokv.com api16-normal-c-alisg.tiktokv.com api16-normal-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com api16-normal-c-useast2a.tiktokv.com api16-va.tiktokv.com api19-core-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com api19-core-c-useast2a.tiktokv.com api19-core-va.tiktokv.com api19-normal-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com api19-normal-c-useast2a.tiktokv.com api19-va.tiktokv.com api21-core-c-alisg.tiktokv.com api21-h2-eagle.tiktokv.com api21-h2.tiktokv.com api21-normal-c-alisg.tiktokv.com api21-va.tiktokv.com api22-core-c-alisg.tiktokv.com api22-core-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com api22-core-c-useast2a.tiktokv.com api22-normal-c-alisg.tiktokv.com api22-normal-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com api22-normal-c-useast2a.tiktokv.com api30-h2-eagle.tiktokv.com api30-h2.tiktokv.com api-h2-eagle.tiktokv.com api-h2.tiktokv.com api-t2.tiktokv.com api.tiktokv.com api-va.tiktokv.com dm16-alisg.tiktokv.com dm16-useast1a.tiktokv.com frontier-va.tiktokv.com gecko16-normal-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com i.byteoversea.com ichannel.musical.ly ichannel-va.tiktokv.com imapi-16.tiktokv.com imapi-mu.isnssdk.com im-va.tiktokv.com log16-normal-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com log.byteoversea.com log-va.tiktokv.com mon.tiktokv.com mon-va.tiktokv.com muscdn.com musical.ly p16-tiktokcdn-com.akamaized.net p16-tiktok-sg.ibyteimg.com p16-tiktok-va.ibyteimg.com pull-cmaf-f16-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-cmaf-f16.tiktokcdn.com pull-cmaf-f5.tiktokcdn.com pull-f5-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-f5.tiktokcdn.com pull-flv-f11-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-flv-f11.tiktokcdn.com pull-flv-f1-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-flv-f1.tiktokcdn.com pull-flv-l11.tiktokcdn.com pull-flv-l1.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-f11-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-f11.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-f1-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-f1.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-f5-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-f5.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-l11.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-l1.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-q5.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-w5.tiktokcdn.com pull-q5.tiktokcdn.com pull-rtmp-f11-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-rtmp-f11.tiktokcdn.com pull-rtmp-f1-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-rtmp-f1.tiktokcdn.com pull-rtmp-l11.tiktokcdn.com pull-rtmp-l1.tiktokcdn.com pull-w5.tiktokcdn.com tiktokcdn.com tiktokcdn.com.c.worldfcdn.com tiktokcdn.com.wsdvs.com tiktokcdn.liveplay.myqcloud.com tiktok.com tiktok.com.c.footprint.net tiktokv.com webcast16-normal-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com xlog-va.tiktokv.com # /TikTok If your filter/blocker supports partial DNS matching or regexp matching that list can be shortened radically: # TikTok (\.|^)tiktok\.com$ (\.|^)tiktokcdn\.com$ (\.|^)tiktokv\.com$ muscdn.com musical.ly # /TikTok
theshrike79 5y ago
Yea, the Youtube algorithm is the "pick me girl" of algorithms. I watched one video by a creator I already follow about their solar panel installation and water-catcher garden irrigation. What do I get in my recommendations? Dozens and dozens of videos from completely random channels about solar panel installation and gardening. I very rarely find new creators on YouTube, who produce consistent high quality content. I follow a handful of channels and even from them I lookat 20-40% of their videos. TikTok on the other hand I swore I'd never use. Then came Covid19 and lockdowns. I reached the end of HN, Reddit and Youtube, so I installed it. The Algorthm is fucking amazing. Dunno how they do it, but 80-90% of stuff it shows me I end up watching (it is 10secs to 3 mins so the investment isn't that huge =) ). I've ended up following, among others, an opthalmologist who does sketches about hospital stuff, to mechanics who show the most f'd up cars they get to service, to farrier and sheep shearing videos to a guy who does comedy about weird animal facts. I'd never actually go search anything like that on purpose, but I actually kinda found out I enjoy looking at. It's a good way to space out for 30 minutes and relax. Most TikTok videos get to the point before a stereotypical YouTuber has gone through their intro and sponsor segments :)
- jcun4128 5y ago
  > farrier There is something weirdly mesmerizing about that. watching them scrape away the stuff from the hoof like it's butter...
- tempest_ 5y ago
  It is pretty obvious why it is better though. It is getting more input and it is getting faster input so it can course correct quicker and more aggressively. The youtube algorithm wants to optimize for time on the site, and the creators try and have 10 minute videos it seems. In that time you can consume 60 tiktok videos at 10s each and skipping the ones you dont want and watching the ones you do. Since 10s is such a small investment they can throw random videos at you and it is pretty low cost.
  - cloverich 5y ago
    i’ve watched a lot of youtube this year. every day, and i rarely consume any other media at all. Its overtuned to locking you in and i generally agree with OP. I was watching a lot of guitar stuff and at one point that’s literally all it would show me, despite having other interests. i think i appreciated it was a bit lacking when i realized i was regularly clicking into my subscriptions and searching (manually) for new stuff they or related channels may have uploaded — and finding many interesting videos after wards. Its a hard problem and perhaps im an exception, but if you are searching for new stuff, and finding amd watching it, that’s a miss by the algorithm. Especially if that becomes the main thing you do.
Firebrand 5y ago
I thought about starting my own TikTok page dedicated to programming so I recorded one about why I still prefer C++ over Rust. While I got decent views for the subject matter, I got roasted by 12-year-olds in the comments section. The top one implied the real reason I preferred C++ was because I’m a boomer, and it was apparently written by someone who likes to upload Roblox music videos. My page has since been made private. I can take toxic Reddit, HN, and even Twitter comments, and while I found the whole situation hilarious there’s something frightening about opening my whole identity for hordes of anonymous people to judge. There’s a power imbalance that doesn’t seem to bother a subset of Gen Z or the general population who continue uploading content there.
bane 5y ago
I can't wait for Google to make their own knock-off, do it in 4 different ways, kill them all off, do it another 3 times at the same time, and then kill those off too. In the meanwhile they'll have permanently degraded some part of their core service offerings chasing this, maybe putting 10 second videos in place of every street view shot in google maps, or making search favor short video content or some nonsense.
fma 5y ago
Seems to be misunderstanding of TikTok and their algorithms. WSJ did an interesting experiment where they programmed a bot to do take interest in certain videos. the tldr is that it spirals till you get more concentrated, extreme in the type of content. i.e they searched for depressing videos and they get more and more depressing. https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktok-algorithm-video-investigation-11626877477?st=5bb3anuebdbthut&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktok-algorithm-video-investig... Where Facebook has a weakpoint is that the content they server you is rather limited. It's a newsfeed of your friends, your friends friends (maybe) and the groups you've joined. Maybe they'll recommend something for you. But most of the time, it's stuff you've more or less opted into. TikTok on the other hand - has at its disposal videos made by anyone, at anytime in the history of its app. That's a lot of content. I can be on Facebook and be done scrolling in 15 minutes. Same with Instagram, Twitter. TikTok, because it has essentially an infinite amount of assets it can serve...you're there forever, watching short snippets of videos to get a dopamine hit. Not comparable to other social media, IMHO...more dangerous, regardless of which country owns it.
dirtyid 5y ago
Overton window friendly mainstream content shaped by PRC censorship is popular because no one likes running across divisive / distressing content that seems to be endgame of western attention merchant approach. Incidentally western platforms follow suit and starts cracking down on undesirables. Going to be interesting once TikTok rolls out massively profitable store fronts / shopping layer comparable to DouYin. Maybe tiktok philosphy will prove that serenity sells more than drama. Censored, curated speech is more marketable to unrestricted free speech.
stiltzkin 5y ago
Seems many here are not TikTok users (and some never will) but besides algo TikTok video editing with music and app UX has made people so easy to jump on uploading and recording video from a smartphone, and making this toxic culture of attention from the young audience on making TikTok videos (just look for the cringe reactions of people recording TikTok users making videos).
roody15 5y ago
China’s rise continues.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
csours 5y ago
TikTok feels so incredibly fake. I know that a lot of that same fake content is available on YouTube, but on YouTube, I can subscribe to creators that do real things or offer substantial and interesting critiques. TikTok and Facebook video feel like broadcast TV - highly over-dramatized and over-hyped. Again, I know the same is available on YT, but I can also use it my way.
- malwarebytess 5y ago
  It really isn't. I get only normal people on my tiktok, but I also only follow normal people and tend to "not interested" all checkmarked accounts when they show up.
  - csours 5y ago
    Hmm maybe it's because I don't have an account. I guess it's the default feed syndrome.
    - dakial1 5y ago
      TikTok "ForYou" algorithm is very very impressive in its recommendations. 2 people might have very different experiences with TikTok. So if you start using with some regularity, even if you don't press like in anything it will figure out what you like and what you don't. I am very curious about how it measures content engagement.
      - fragmede 5y ago
        View length. If I watch a whole video then that's positive signal between me and that video (no matter if I actually like the content or not). Netflix gets that as well. I can say I like history documentaries, but Netflix knows I really use their service to watch trashy reality TV shows in the middle of the night - and then they use that information to choose what sort of shows to produce.
  - fragmede 5y ago
    Interesting. My FYP is all weirdos. And I like it that way!
ng12 5y ago
Can someone explain to me what happened to Vine? I feel like it beat TikTok to the punch by ~8 years before it was bought and then unceremoniously killed by Twitter. Was that the first example of US innovation being suffocated by the big tech oligopoly?
- rockinghigh 5y ago
  Vine started in 2013 and uploads were shut down in 2016; the same year TikTok launched.
  - barbecue_sauce 5y ago
    I think they're asking why.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  I don't think Twitter could afford to lose money with Vines for very long. The CCP can afford to lose money with TikTok for a long time. Straight from the propaganda budget really.
  - starik36 5y ago
    I have yet to see a single CCP propaganda video on TikTok. What exactly are you seeing?
    - im-poor 5y ago
      CCP propaganda won’t be a red flying with people chanting “China is great!” It will be something like “masks aren’t effective” to increase the impact of COVID on America.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - saila 5y ago
        All the videos I see on TikTok regarding COVID are all pro-mask/pro-vax/pro-science. I can see how others will be led down a different path though. Not sure it's intentional so much as showing people what they want to see, and I don't see how it's any different than, say, YouTube where one can also go down a rabbit hole and get stuck there.
franciscop 5y ago
Note that this is "average time on app", which draws two potential pitfalls: • Youtube is consumed A LOT on the website, including some people using the mobile website (not the app) to keep it playing in the background (duh). This only compares average time on app. • It could also be totally skewed, if let's say 100M people spend 2h/day on average on Youtube, and 1k (a tiny amount) spend 2.5h/day on average on Tiktok, that'd be already good enough to say "average time per user spent on the apps is higher for TikTok". I haven't read the report, but wanted to point out these two warnings. As we say in Spanish, the easiest way to lie is with statistics. And of course any half-decent PR person will take any numbers and blow it up into a headline, so tread with caution. (Absolutely not wanting to discount on Tiktok, which has been growing at an incredible rate, just wanted to say that the wording on how exactly they are "winning" sounded a bit contrieved).
- willcipriano 5y ago
  I imagine NewPipe users alone could account for a large chunk of time. I leave it on overnight frequently.
  - sluggosaurus 5y ago
    I'm under the vague impression that newpipe/youtube-dl users don't count towards view counts or watch times at all, since the anti-botting measures youtube has in place to prevent view-fraud would filter such users out of consideration for those metrics. Aren't youtube webpages filled with a bunch of JS telemetry to distinguish "real" viewers from bots?
- jbluepolarbear 5y ago
  I refuse to use the YouTube app. The ads have gotten so bad. The website I can use an ad blocker and it’s fine to watch. I try using the app iOS or TVOS and it’s 3 ads to start and an ad every 5 minutes.
  - pininja 5y ago
    I recommend buying YouTube Premium. I’ve been a happy customer for a couple years now. It’s better for the creators compared to blocking ads too and they get paid based on your watch time. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6306276 https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6306276
8eye 5y ago
with all that data, they can map public areas and find the best to settle in, that media is influencing public opinion, they can prune messages they disagree with even more so than youtube has ever done.
foxhop 5y ago
Whelp this is not a trend TikTok really is just that addictive. I created an account and its a firehose. I post short permaculture videos: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRfVWm76/ https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRfVWm76/
- fragmede 5y ago
  Heads up that your link, vm.tiktok.com is tracked to your user. If I go to that video and share a link, I'll get a different URL. Previous iterations of their web frontend revealed user account info (eg the name used to register the foxhop user, assuming you snagged that username), but it looks like the current frontend no longer shows that.
  - foxhop 5y ago
    What should I do instead, not use TikTok or is there a "safer" way to share?
sjg007 5y ago
Wow.. this is huge.
shp0ngle 5y ago
People here always say, how TikTok algorithm is "amazing"; while every time I try it, I just see teenagers badly dancing.
- trhway 5y ago
  that is probably the main point of all of it - generation change. The tiktok is GenZ. The "teenagers badly dancing" is probably a very meaningful content for them.
- blahedo 5y ago
  This is a valid critique, and why I originally dropped tiktok after a few brief attempts last year. The trick is that you have to do a little work up front to find videos you like (perhaps they've been crossposted to your Facebook feed or something). Early this year I watched and liked videos from about four completely different tiktok creators that I specifically sought out (because I'd seen one of their videos crossposted to FB), and from then on my FYP has been scary-good at serving up stuff that would appeal to me. ETA: I basically never see teenagers dancing badly. Those videos exist in a different wing of TikTok from the ones I frequent.
  - shp0ngle 5y ago
    Ah, fair. I don't think I ever saw a TikTok feed I really liked, maybe that one guy singing the sea shanties? But yeah that's about it
    - blahedo 5y ago
      LOL the sea shanties were one of the ones that brought me in—I spent about two weeks in February totally obsessed with The Wellerman ;)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tehwebguy 5y ago
YouTube is going to blow it with the extremely hamfisted and enraging TikTok clone built into the YouTube app. Being unable to exit a video the same way one would exit a normal YT video is a nightmare, esp since you often won’t know it’s a “short” until it’s too late. There are other dealbreaker bugs in the shorts player. Hope they figure out another way and change course.
hnthrow12997 5y ago
Ultimately tiktok is enjoyable and I feel happy after closing it. Western apps by comparison are filled with the culture wars and I open them less and less often. Hn included.
sharmin123 5y ago
Teen Drug Addiction Reasons, Remedies, And Parental Roles: https://www.hackerslist.co/teen-drug-addiction-reasons-remedies-and-parental-roles/ https://www.hackerslist.co/teen-drug-addiction-reasons-remed...
anonygler 5y ago
This is intensely offensive. US tech companies are banned, robbed, and defrauded by China. We have no chance to compete with them in China, yet they can come here and freely. Tiktok should be banned.
say_it_as_it_is 5y ago
I can't watch TikTok. It's the most obnoxious media I've ever seen. Where is the pause or stop button!? The UX feels like a ride on a rail car without brakes that is run by a coked out conductor.
bob229 5y ago
Humanity is doomed, good riddance
mkr-hn 5y ago
I wish the thing killing Google's golden goose weren't worse than Google. TikTok does it by pairing Twitter-level burnout-causing engagement juicing with short videos with no option to turn off autoplay.
SeanFerree 5y ago
I feel like even though TikTok is more popular right now, YouTube is stronger and will eventually be number one again
fennecfoxy 5y ago
Yeah, probably because I never watch YT on the app, usually casting via Chromecast to a projector. YT now has their "shorts" as well that they're desperately trying to push to fill the gap that TikTok (well actually Vine) has created. But their big mistake was only allowing people to watch shorts on mobile...

Something as massive as YouTube can be beaten. This feels like the circle of life, considering every empire that rises eventually falls too. Though I am not saying TikTok is the doom for YouTube since geo politics will play a significant role its future. And there are other metrics by which TikTok hasn’t probably caught up with YouTube yet like the size of the user base, revenue etc. What seems odd is how TikTok is managing this. YouTube is popular among all demographics, the diversity of content is mind bogglingly high whereas (I presume) TikTok is popular among the crowd who are either going to highschool or in college. Its primary purpose is entertainment, so how did it beat YouTube exactly?

okamiueru 5y ago
Don't they serve very different demographics and/or interests? I've been assuming TikTok is the equivalent of "what is trending today", where "what" is something related to dance moves, or other stuff I don't find very interesting. (Or, it's not that I find dance moves uninteresting, it's just that it's not something I'd want to spend time consuming). Are my assumptions wrong, and there is genuinely interesting, and more in depth content on TikTok? Also, the whole thought of a video platform devoted to teenagers filming themselves dance ... is... well, to be honest, a bit creepy. But I suppose this is a concern for just a part of the content if my assumptions are wrong. Ps: Just to clear, I'm not saying there isn't creative things or something to learn or expand some kind of understanding through TikTok. Just that, surely, there isn't much overlap between YouTube and a platform limited to 15 second video clips? Especially one, that for someone who has never used it, seems mostly limited to teenagers filming themselves dance?
- anshumankmr 5y ago
  I have never installed TikTok or watched any content on it. I assume it is a spiritual successor to Vine.
- ItsMonkk 5y ago
  While dance content is the most popular, the system that recommends videos allows a factor of magnitude more niches than other platforms. In no way is TT limited to dance. Within the first day I stopped seeing dance content. If you want to post stuff that would do well here, it would do well on TikTok.
- fragmede 5y ago
  Is the barrier to entry (installing yet another app on your phone) onerous in some way that I don't see? Otherwise it seems straightforwards enough to install the app for yourself and see what's on there. There's a ton of content that isn't thirst traps (aka teenagers dancing), but while that's an interesting question to dig in to, if enough people switch mediums (from newspapers to radio to TV to YouTube to Tiktok), there doesn't have to be an overlap for one to largely supplant the next. How's the New York Times doing these days?
- blahedo 5y ago
  > dance moves, or other stuff I don't find very interesting There are lots of different corners of TikTok, and for good or bad it's generally pretty good at forming some fairly niche communities. I have a couple of primarily dance-oriented creators I follow—none of them teenagers, fwiw—but the most interesting are the ones who use their platform to educate, whether it be about science-y stuff or music or history or whatever; I've learned a lot from following a substantial group of Black creators who've taken the time to talk about their lived experiences. These communities with somewhat deeper content really took off when the platform opened up 60 second videos (I gather that was late in 2020?) and they've mostly gotten even better now that creators (at least some of us?) can make 3-minute videos. It's all based on what you like and follow, though. Very early on, it's worthwhile to go out-of-band to track down names of a few creators that you can seed your for-you-page with, otherwise you'll get the lowest common denominator stuff. Sometimes someone will "duet" or "stitch" another video and then you're introduced to another creator and can follow them directly; other times the FYP itself will serve up someone you've never seen or heard of but that has content (and presumably like-and-follow patterns) similar to the ones you do follow. And then you can like and/or follow the new person. I mean, there's thirst traps too. If those were the only videos you liked, then that's what it would show you.
  - okamiueru 5y ago
    Based on the suggestions here, I went ahead and looked for myself, and I'm impressed by how fast and accurate TikTok figured out what I liked. After about two minutes, all it showed me was a combination tools, nature, animals, and woodworking. I have a more niche hobbies like 3d printing and electronics which I'm sure it'll pick up within enough time, but, not a single video of what I assumed almost all videos were. I'm happy to be wrong, and I get why TikTok is so popular.
zaik 5y ago
It would be nice to see YouTube beaten by a more open platform like PeerTube. TikTok is just another proprietary app run by a for-profit company.
- anshumankmr 5y ago
  It would be nice but unless some massive VC backs it to market it and help it scale, or content creators become aware about it and jump ship, it won’t make a big dent.
simonh 5y ago
I think they're just different markets. YT is doing fine, revenue is up 30% YOY and all their viewer and channel growth numbers are very healthy.
- anshumankmr 5y ago
  YT has some knock-off of Stories but I have never used it. But unfortunately a lot of creators I watch (even some guys who explain very involved technical stuff) make videos for it now and label it #shorts which is annoying since I usually watch YouTube on my laptop or iPad.
toshk 5y ago
To be fair, Youtube VS TikTok is mostly the wrong comparison. Tiktok is mostly competing with the Insta/Facebook I need distraction so I'll let myself be numbed with external impulses as fast as I can get. Most similar was the story feature in Instagram, often also videos, although nobody every compared viewing them with Youtube. Although Youtube also has it's scroll/impulsive it's not a direct competition. Although you could argue any form of time consumption (online) is competition.
- anshumankmr 5y ago
  I would not go as far as saying the comparison is wrong. From what I have read about the platform, it is a video sharing platform where teenagers can also insert currently trending music and share the content. There is also a home feed that works automatically by finding the best video suggested by an algorithm. So based on that description, it is fair to compare it to YouTube. I agree YouTube /Instagram/Snapchat stories feature is closer to the experience of TikTok. Though I making a guess since I have only read about it and seen some screenshots.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    Tiktok videos are on average a few seconds to a maximum of 3 minutes (which is rare to see anything over a minute). A youtube video is 5-10 minutes on average. Comparing apples and oranges only works if are talking about a fruit salad.
neither_color 5y ago
I think they're very different platforms serving completely different content. I see tiktok as instagram/twitter/snapchat's competition rather than youtube's. If you go back several years on youtube(like 10 years back) you'll find a lot more casual low-res videos of people being goofy/interesting without any agenda to build a following. Nowadays youtubers are all "Hey guys thanks for clicking on my clickbait title don't forget to smash that like button and subscribe I know you're here because of the title but I'm going to do a long intro about something else because I really need this to be 10 minutes long." To be fair many of these are great documentary/educational/infotainment/explainer series on Youtube that I won't find anywhere else. Wendover or Real Engineering are more well-known examples but there's a long-tail of niche history and economics accounts I like to follow that formats like tiktok won't serve anytime soon.
- fragmede 5y ago
  The lowered barrier to entry with TikTok and its algorithm means that someone with a PhD in an extremely esoteric field can do a quick presentation without having to make TikTok their new career. Real Engineering is great, but they didn't randomly fire off one YouTube video and get where they are today.
  - SilverRed 5y ago
    TikTok is also absolutely filled with pseudo informative content which looks exactly like this but the statements and numbers are complete garbage. Because the platform does not put much weight behind users and names, this stuff is just as prominent as the real content.
xnx 5y ago
The amount of commenting by people who have (proudly?) never used Tiktok in this thread is staggering.
vitorgrs 5y ago
Tiktok is more popular than just young people. I actually discovered tiktok was a thing because of... my mother, who used it. The algorithms is insane, and it works for any age. The age demographic for now is probably because young people tend to download new apps first than old people.

iratewizard 5y ago

Thanks to the gross incompetence of Susan Wojcicki and Google abandoning their old motto, "don't be evil".

tester756 5y ago
"abandoning"? it's still there.
- iratewizard 5y ago
  > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil > formerly
  - tester756 5y ago
    It's still present in CoC >https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/ https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/ >And remember… don’t be evil, and if you see something that you think isn’t right – speak up!

JoshTko 5y ago

TikTok has two advantages - first, an order more user data to refine it's feed algorithm and second a format that lowers the bar for content creation which allows for super niche content to be viable. The combination enables a feed that resonates.

ourcat 5y ago
Their recommendation algorithm is reportedly the envy of many other platforms. I heard that was pretty much what was being bid for at the time offers started floating around.
- disgruntledphd2 5y ago
  TikTok always gets a zero or 1 on each video, whereas FB only get interactions for a minority of units. This makes it a lot easier to train better models.

axpy906 5y ago

Wonder what comparisons are possible for YT as MySpace and TikTok as Facebook? Seems like history is playing itself out again.

ourcat 5y ago

"YouTube still leads TikTok in overall time spent..." What's the longest length video that TikTok supports? (I don't use it)

umeshunni 5y ago
15 minutes
- ourcat 5y ago
  Wow. Thank you. I had no idea about that. I had assumed it would be much, much shorter.
  - M2Ys4U 5y ago
    That's very new, though. Even 3 minute videos haven't been around for more than a few months.
    - ourcat 5y ago
      Ah I see. I remember when YouTube had quite a short cap on length years ago (10-15 minutes iirc), which is why I started using vimeo at the time.
- yunusabd 5y ago
  Latest info I could find was 5 minutes max [1], where did you see 15? [1] https://www.socialmediatoday.com/news/tiktoks-testing-even-longer-video-uploads-as-it-looks-to-expand-its-presen/605603/ https://www.socialmediatoday.com/news/tiktoks-testing-even-l...
  - umeshunni 5y ago
    I was wrong. It's 5 minutes.
blahedo 5y ago
There are three categories, with slightly different capabilities and interfaces for each, capped at 15s, 60s, and 3m. The short ones were originally the only ones, 60s became available about a year ago (?), and 3m only just over the summer (and I'm not sure they're even available to all creators yet; they had a slow rollout).

MathCodeLove 5y ago

I feel like I'm going crazy. Hasn't TikTok been proven malicious in it's excessive user tracking and data theft? Why does everyone I know still use it? Outside of privacy concerns, doesn't the blackbox algorithm make anyone worry? We're building automated echochambers for an entire population. We're giving a Chinese company the ability to control the content consumption, and therefore beliefs and knowledge, of entire countries. The ever growing popularity of tiktok is, to me, extremely concerning.

toshk 5y ago
kids use it
ed25519FUUU 5y ago
There was a man who tried to force TikTok out of the US or out of Chinese control…
- quickthrowman 5y ago
  Let’s be honest about it: the former president was trying to reward Larry Ellison for his support, that’s all it was and that’s why it didn’t happen.
  - ed25519FUUU 5y ago
    Actually it did happen, and was reversed this year. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/09/biden-revokes-and-replaces-trump-executive-orders-that-banned-tiktok.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/09/biden-revokes-and-replaces-t...
jeromegv 5y ago
How is that different than Facebook? We have known for Facebook shady data policies for 10 years, and that has never prevented people from using it, why do you think suddenly people would care more when it comes to TikTok?
- 5y ago

ridaj 5y ago

It's not a great metric by itself. There are two ways that "average watch time" can increase: users becoming more engaged, and less-engaged users dropping out of the app. It's a concern if it means that TikTok is becoming a youth-only app, for example.

m12k 5y ago

TikTok seems emblematic of China's overall approach compared to the West - shows up late to the party, but studies all those hard-won lessons to copy and later surpass the most successful Western products. The free market is great at finding the superior product, but it's also messy and wasteful with all those failed attempts - why not just sit it out until a winner starts to emerge, then copy them? China seems to have perfected the art of the fast follower.

simonh 5y ago
Tiktok is very much a product of the 'free market' segment in China. The government does have a minority ownership stake in it now, but that's very recent and they played no role in it's founding by Zhang Yiming, a programmer and serial app and online service founder.
- disgruntledphd2 5y ago
  Yeah, my understanding is that the recommendation engine was already developed for a news app popular in India, and that they grafted this onto Musical.ly (the acquisition which has now become TikTok). Also, they spent many, many millions on ads to get the app everywhere.
  - Mehdi2277 5y ago
    Millions? They spent a lot more than 10s of millions on advertising. They spent roughly a billion on advertising and probably are one of the most advertised products ever in spending. https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktoks-videos-are-goofy-its-strategy-to-dominate-social-media-is-serious-11561780861 https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktoks-videos-are-goofy-its-st...
    - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
      many, many millions can be approximately equal to 1bn. I am aware that they advertised a lot, but didn't have (and wouldn't trust) any figures provided on this, as I've seen how wrong they can be.

jeffbee 5y ago

Exactly what malware do people install to get on "App Annie" panel? Is it the "Phone Guardian VPN: Safe Wifi" garbage I see in the Play Store? People really will install anything. Perhaps the conclusion should be changed to "Clueless dupes who install spyware also more likely to prefer TikTok".

game_the0ry 5y ago

A couple of years ago, I noticed the youtube recommendations that would get were a lot less interesting, though still relevant to me somehow. At some point I started seeing a lot more "mainstream" content, especially after media companies figured out that they needed to have a youtube presence in order to stay relevant. So I wonder if the algorithm the switched to had something to do with them potentially losing attention from users. I can't speak to tik tok, never used it, never will.

jpomykala 5y ago
I feel the same. Recommendations are as simple on youtube as “get top 10 videos in your country”
finfinfin 5y ago
Every TikTok user I know tells me that the primary reason they use it is the algorithm. Apparently it’s way ahead of YouTube. Anecdotally I am in the same boat as you—ended up removing the YouTube suggestion sidebar with an adblocker due to its increasingly poor quality.
- _fat_santa 5y ago
  One anecdote that I heard about the TikTok algo is that it favors new creators with <5k subscribers and actively pushes that content to new users. This is opposed to how Youtube does it, where more established creators are pushed over news ones. I feel like this is what really helps TikTok always have fresh content. If you want to become a YouTuber, the path to having a good following can be years of grind. With TikTok, there is a good shot your first video might just propel you to stardom. Thus more people are inclined to create content for TikTok. It creates a feedback loop
  - finfinfin 5y ago
    This is interesting. I think this approach goes hand in hand with a much lower quality bar on TikTok. We have an expectation that YouTube videos have a certain production quality, so pushing new creators would often result in unmet expectations. On TikTok new creators can record a 15 second dance and be instantly indistinguishable quality-wise from more experienced creators.

behnamoh 5y ago

Well, who would have thought it would only take a short period of time until tt overtakes yt.

tarkin2 5y ago

This is a hit for US cultural dominance and influence. Americans and Brits, at least in average watch time, are now consuming media ultimately controlled by the Chinese government. And the previous election was influenced by a foreign government using American social media networks to influence, not to mention influencing the president-elect directly. Either America's own social networks are used against them or social networks controlled by other countries are gaining dominance. It seems nothing other than a decline in American influence in the world. And it comes from other countries outperforming the Americans. Whether America reacts to this or ignores it through the arrogance of the current greatest will define American power in the world for generations.

nova22033 5y ago
This is a bit of hit for US cultural dominance and influence. How so? Almost everything I watch on tiktok is made by American content creators..Is TikTok proper even available to Chinese residents?
- disgruntledphd2 5y ago
  Nope, there's a different app for China, called Douyin I believe.
- tarkin2 5y ago
  And is ultimately controlled by the Chinese government
- im3w1l 5y ago
  Let's say one American says "China good" another American says "China bad". TikTok can make sure that former gets more views.
  - justicezyx 5y ago
    And we all know that that's not what happens now on any major non Chinese media platforms. The reality is that most of these platforms demonize China good contents and their creators, applying double standards https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-01-22/YouTubers-under-fire-for-pro-China-content-talk-back--XgtXt9xHmo/index.html https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-01-22/YouTubers-under-fire-f...

JohnJamesRambo 5y ago

15 seconds is the attention span teachers are going to have to compete with and try to teach. YouTube wasn’t mindless and short enough.

ericls 5y ago

It’s the new drug

CapriciousCptl 5y ago

Note that this is watch time *per active user* lest anyone interprets the title as TikTok having more total active user-time.

nova22033 5y ago

However, YouTube retains the top spot for overall time spent - not per user - as it has many more users overall. Burying the lede here BBC...

blondin 5y ago

youtube is my main streaming platform, but i have come to understand the appeal of tiktok. most of the things that are inherent to the tiktok platform, i have to manually do while using youtube. a couple of examples are manually ignoring click-baits, overly long videos and explanations, multiple parts videos (some are genuine, but most are bad-intentioned), creators and channels i don't care about, etc.

buryat 5y ago

TikTok will surpass both Youtube/Instagram in terms of videos watched, tiktok will also change the way we consume content and how we interact with it. They also came further in solving comments to videos unlike Youtube where comments section is a toxic wasteland.

DalasNoin 5y ago

The headline is a bit misleading in the article: "average time per user spent on the apps is higher for TikTok... However, YouTube retains the top spot for overall time spent - not per user - as it has many more users overall." The average TikTok user spents more time, which is still interesting. Maybe kids just have more time on their hands.

ajkdhcb2 5y ago
I've also spent an unholy amount of time on youtube but never installed the app. Why watch videos on my phone...

nkotov 5y ago

I believe it. Nowadays, I watch perhaps 1-2 videos a day on Youtube. The addictive endless scrolling of content on Tiktok means I'm spending on average an hour a day.

the_third_wave 5y ago
Sounds like it is time to add TikTok to you blocklist and get back an hour a day. Add the following to whatever filter/blocklist you use and rejoice in all that regained freedom: # TikTok abtest-va-tiktok.byteoversea.com api16-core-c-alisg.tiktokv.com api16-core-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com api16-core-c-useast2a.tiktokv.com api16-core-va.tiktokv.com api16-normal-c-alisg.tiktokv.com api16-normal-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com api16-normal-c-useast2a.tiktokv.com api16-va.tiktokv.com api19-core-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com api19-core-c-useast2a.tiktokv.com api19-core-va.tiktokv.com api19-normal-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com api19-normal-c-useast2a.tiktokv.com api19-va.tiktokv.com api21-core-c-alisg.tiktokv.com api21-h2-eagle.tiktokv.com api21-h2.tiktokv.com api21-normal-c-alisg.tiktokv.com api21-va.tiktokv.com api22-core-c-alisg.tiktokv.com api22-core-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com api22-core-c-useast2a.tiktokv.com api22-normal-c-alisg.tiktokv.com api22-normal-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com api22-normal-c-useast2a.tiktokv.com api30-h2-eagle.tiktokv.com api30-h2.tiktokv.com api-h2-eagle.tiktokv.com api-h2.tiktokv.com api-t2.tiktokv.com api.tiktokv.com api-va.tiktokv.com dm16-alisg.tiktokv.com dm16-useast1a.tiktokv.com frontier-va.tiktokv.com gecko16-normal-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com i.byteoversea.com ichannel.musical.ly ichannel-va.tiktokv.com imapi-16.tiktokv.com imapi-mu.isnssdk.com im-va.tiktokv.com log16-normal-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com log.byteoversea.com log-va.tiktokv.com mon.tiktokv.com mon-va.tiktokv.com muscdn.com musical.ly p16-tiktokcdn-com.akamaized.net p16-tiktok-sg.ibyteimg.com p16-tiktok-va.ibyteimg.com pull-cmaf-f16-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-cmaf-f16.tiktokcdn.com pull-cmaf-f5.tiktokcdn.com pull-f5-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-f5.tiktokcdn.com pull-flv-f11-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-flv-f11.tiktokcdn.com pull-flv-f1-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-flv-f1.tiktokcdn.com pull-flv-l11.tiktokcdn.com pull-flv-l1.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-f11-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-f11.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-f1-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-f1.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-f5-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-f5.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-l11.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-l1.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-q5.tiktokcdn.com pull-hls-w5.tiktokcdn.com pull-q5.tiktokcdn.com pull-rtmp-f11-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-rtmp-f11.tiktokcdn.com pull-rtmp-f1-ab.tiktokcdn.com pull-rtmp-f1.tiktokcdn.com pull-rtmp-l11.tiktokcdn.com pull-rtmp-l1.tiktokcdn.com pull-w5.tiktokcdn.com tiktokcdn.com tiktokcdn.com.c.worldfcdn.com tiktokcdn.com.wsdvs.com tiktokcdn.liveplay.myqcloud.com tiktok.com tiktok.com.c.footprint.net tiktokv.com webcast16-normal-c-useast1a.tiktokv.com xlog-va.tiktokv.com # /TikTok If your filter/blocker supports partial DNS matching or regexp matching that list can be shortened radically: # TikTok (\.|^)tiktok\.com$ (\.|^)tiktokcdn\.com$ (\.|^)tiktokv\.com$ muscdn.com musical.ly # /TikTok

theshrike79 5y ago

Yea, the Youtube algorithm is the "pick me girl" of algorithms. I watched one video by a creator I already follow about their solar panel installation and water-catcher garden irrigation. What do I get in my recommendations? Dozens and dozens of videos from completely random channels about solar panel installation and gardening. I very rarely find new creators on YouTube, who produce consistent high quality content. I follow a handful of channels and even from them I lookat 20-40% of their videos. TikTok on the other hand I swore I'd never use. Then came Covid19 and lockdowns. I reached the end of HN, Reddit and Youtube, so I installed it. The Algorthm is fucking amazing. Dunno how they do it, but 80-90% of stuff it shows me I end up watching (it is 10secs to 3 mins so the investment isn't that huge =) ). I've ended up following, among others, an opthalmologist who does sketches about hospital stuff, to mechanics who show the most f'd up cars they get to service, to farrier and sheep shearing videos to a guy who does comedy about weird animal facts. I'd never actually go search anything like that on purpose, but I actually kinda found out I enjoy looking at. It's a good way to space out for 30 minutes and relax. Most TikTok videos get to the point before a stereotypical YouTuber has gone through their intro and sponsor segments :)

jcun4128 5y ago
> farrier There is something weirdly mesmerizing about that. watching them scrape away the stuff from the hoof like it's butter...
tempest_ 5y ago
It is pretty obvious why it is better though. It is getting more input and it is getting faster input so it can course correct quicker and more aggressively. The youtube algorithm wants to optimize for time on the site, and the creators try and have 10 minute videos it seems. In that time you can consume 60 tiktok videos at 10s each and skipping the ones you dont want and watching the ones you do. Since 10s is such a small investment they can throw random videos at you and it is pretty low cost.
- cloverich 5y ago
  i’ve watched a lot of youtube this year. every day, and i rarely consume any other media at all. Its overtuned to locking you in and i generally agree with OP. I was watching a lot of guitar stuff and at one point that’s literally all it would show me, despite having other interests. i think i appreciated it was a bit lacking when i realized i was regularly clicking into my subscriptions and searching (manually) for new stuff they or related channels may have uploaded — and finding many interesting videos after wards. Its a hard problem and perhaps im an exception, but if you are searching for new stuff, and finding amd watching it, that’s a miss by the algorithm. Especially if that becomes the main thing you do.

Firebrand 5y ago

I thought about starting my own TikTok page dedicated to programming so I recorded one about why I still prefer C++ over Rust. While I got decent views for the subject matter, I got roasted by 12-year-olds in the comments section. The top one implied the real reason I preferred C++ was because I’m a boomer, and it was apparently written by someone who likes to upload Roblox music videos. My page has since been made private. I can take toxic Reddit, HN, and even Twitter comments, and while I found the whole situation hilarious there’s something frightening about opening my whole identity for hordes of anonymous people to judge. There’s a power imbalance that doesn’t seem to bother a subset of Gen Z or the general population who continue uploading content there.

bane 5y ago

I can't wait for Google to make their own knock-off, do it in 4 different ways, kill them all off, do it another 3 times at the same time, and then kill those off too. In the meanwhile they'll have permanently degraded some part of their core service offerings chasing this, maybe putting 10 second videos in place of every street view shot in google maps, or making search favor short video content or some nonsense.

fma 5y ago

Seems to be misunderstanding of TikTok and their algorithms. WSJ did an interesting experiment where they programmed a bot to do take interest in certain videos. the tldr is that it spirals till you get more concentrated, extreme in the type of content. i.e they searched for depressing videos and they get more and more depressing. https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktok-algorithm-video-investigation-11626877477?st=5bb3anuebdbthut&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktok-algorithm-video-investig... Where Facebook has a weakpoint is that the content they server you is rather limited. It's a newsfeed of your friends, your friends friends (maybe) and the groups you've joined. Maybe they'll recommend something for you. But most of the time, it's stuff you've more or less opted into. TikTok on the other hand - has at its disposal videos made by anyone, at anytime in the history of its app. That's a lot of content. I can be on Facebook and be done scrolling in 15 minutes. Same with Instagram, Twitter. TikTok, because it has essentially an infinite amount of assets it can serve...you're there forever, watching short snippets of videos to get a dopamine hit. Not comparable to other social media, IMHO...more dangerous, regardless of which country owns it.

dirtyid 5y ago

Overton window friendly mainstream content shaped by PRC censorship is popular because no one likes running across divisive / distressing content that seems to be endgame of western attention merchant approach. Incidentally western platforms follow suit and starts cracking down on undesirables. Going to be interesting once TikTok rolls out massively profitable store fronts / shopping layer comparable to DouYin. Maybe tiktok philosphy will prove that serenity sells more than drama. Censored, curated speech is more marketable to unrestricted free speech.

stiltzkin 5y ago

Seems many here are not TikTok users (and some never will) but besides algo TikTok video editing with music and app UX has made people so easy to jump on uploading and recording video from a smartphone, and making this toxic culture of attention from the young audience on making TikTok videos (just look for the cringe reactions of people recording TikTok users making videos).

roody15 5y ago

China’s rise continues.

deleted 5y ago
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csours 5y ago

TikTok feels so incredibly fake. I know that a lot of that same fake content is available on YouTube, but on YouTube, I can subscribe to creators that do real things or offer substantial and interesting critiques. TikTok and Facebook video feel like broadcast TV - highly over-dramatized and over-hyped. Again, I know the same is available on YT, but I can also use it my way.

malwarebytess 5y ago
It really isn't. I get only normal people on my tiktok, but I also only follow normal people and tend to "not interested" all checkmarked accounts when they show up.
- csours 5y ago
  Hmm maybe it's because I don't have an account. I guess it's the default feed syndrome.
  - dakial1 5y ago
    TikTok "ForYou" algorithm is very very impressive in its recommendations. 2 people might have very different experiences with TikTok. So if you start using with some regularity, even if you don't press like in anything it will figure out what you like and what you don't. I am very curious about how it measures content engagement.
    - fragmede 5y ago
      View length. If I watch a whole video then that's positive signal between me and that video (no matter if I actually like the content or not). Netflix gets that as well. I can say I like history documentaries, but Netflix knows I really use their service to watch trashy reality TV shows in the middle of the night - and then they use that information to choose what sort of shows to produce.
- fragmede 5y ago
  Interesting. My FYP is all weirdos. And I like it that way!

ng12 5y ago

Can someone explain to me what happened to Vine? I feel like it beat TikTok to the punch by ~8 years before it was bought and then unceremoniously killed by Twitter. Was that the first example of US innovation being suffocated by the big tech oligopoly?

rockinghigh 5y ago
Vine started in 2013 and uploads were shut down in 2016; the same year TikTok launched.
- barbecue_sauce 5y ago
  I think they're asking why.
908B64B197 5y ago
I don't think Twitter could afford to lose money with Vines for very long. The CCP can afford to lose money with TikTok for a long time. Straight from the propaganda budget really.
- starik36 5y ago
  I have yet to see a single CCP propaganda video on TikTok. What exactly are you seeing?
  - im-poor 5y ago
    CCP propaganda won’t be a red flying with people chanting “China is great!” It will be something like “masks aren’t effective” to increase the impact of COVID on America.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - saila 5y ago
      All the videos I see on TikTok regarding COVID are all pro-mask/pro-vax/pro-science. I can see how others will be led down a different path though. Not sure it's intentional so much as showing people what they want to see, and I don't see how it's any different than, say, YouTube where one can also go down a rabbit hole and get stuck there.

franciscop 5y ago

Note that this is "average time on app", which draws two potential pitfalls: • Youtube is consumed A LOT on the website, including some people using the mobile website (not the app) to keep it playing in the background (duh). This only compares average time on app. • It could also be totally skewed, if let's say 100M people spend 2h/day on average on Youtube, and 1k (a tiny amount) spend 2.5h/day on average on Tiktok, that'd be already good enough to say "average time per user spent on the apps is higher for TikTok". I haven't read the report, but wanted to point out these two warnings. As we say in Spanish, the easiest way to lie is with statistics. And of course any half-decent PR person will take any numbers and blow it up into a headline, so tread with caution. (Absolutely not wanting to discount on Tiktok, which has been growing at an incredible rate, just wanted to say that the wording on how exactly they are "winning" sounded a bit contrieved).

willcipriano 5y ago
I imagine NewPipe users alone could account for a large chunk of time. I leave it on overnight frequently.
- sluggosaurus 5y ago
  I'm under the vague impression that newpipe/youtube-dl users don't count towards view counts or watch times at all, since the anti-botting measures youtube has in place to prevent view-fraud would filter such users out of consideration for those metrics. Aren't youtube webpages filled with a bunch of JS telemetry to distinguish "real" viewers from bots?
jbluepolarbear 5y ago
I refuse to use the YouTube app. The ads have gotten so bad. The website I can use an ad blocker and it’s fine to watch. I try using the app iOS or TVOS and it’s 3 ads to start and an ad every 5 minutes.
- pininja 5y ago
  I recommend buying YouTube Premium. I’ve been a happy customer for a couple years now. It’s better for the creators compared to blocking ads too and they get paid based on your watch time. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6306276 https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6306276

8eye 5y ago

with all that data, they can map public areas and find the best to settle in, that media is influencing public opinion, they can prune messages they disagree with even more so than youtube has ever done.

foxhop 5y ago

Whelp this is not a trend TikTok really is just that addictive. I created an account and its a firehose. I post short permaculture videos: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRfVWm76/ https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRfVWm76/

fragmede 5y ago
Heads up that your link, vm.tiktok.com is tracked to your user. If I go to that video and share a link, I'll get a different URL. Previous iterations of their web frontend revealed user account info (eg the name used to register the foxhop user, assuming you snagged that username), but it looks like the current frontend no longer shows that.
- foxhop 5y ago
  What should I do instead, not use TikTok or is there a "safer" way to share?

sjg007 5y ago

Wow.. this is huge.

shp0ngle 5y ago

People here always say, how TikTok algorithm is "amazing"; while every time I try it, I just see teenagers badly dancing.

trhway 5y ago
that is probably the main point of all of it - generation change. The tiktok is GenZ. The "teenagers badly dancing" is probably a very meaningful content for them.
blahedo 5y ago
This is a valid critique, and why I originally dropped tiktok after a few brief attempts last year. The trick is that you have to do a little work up front to find videos you like (perhaps they've been crossposted to your Facebook feed or something). Early this year I watched and liked videos from about four completely different tiktok creators that I specifically sought out (because I'd seen one of their videos crossposted to FB), and from then on my FYP has been scary-good at serving up stuff that would appeal to me. ETA: I basically never see teenagers dancing badly. Those videos exist in a different wing of TikTok from the ones I frequent.
- shp0ngle 5y ago
  Ah, fair. I don't think I ever saw a TikTok feed I really liked, maybe that one guy singing the sea shanties? But yeah that's about it
  - blahedo 5y ago
    LOL the sea shanties were one of the ones that brought me in—I spent about two weeks in February totally obsessed with The Wellerman ;)

deleted 5y ago

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tehwebguy 5y ago

YouTube is going to blow it with the extremely hamfisted and enraging TikTok clone built into the YouTube app. Being unable to exit a video the same way one would exit a normal YT video is a nightmare, esp since you often won’t know it’s a “short” until it’s too late. There are other dealbreaker bugs in the shorts player. Hope they figure out another way and change course.

hnthrow12997 5y ago

Ultimately tiktok is enjoyable and I feel happy after closing it. Western apps by comparison are filled with the culture wars and I open them less and less often. Hn included.

sharmin123 5y ago

Teen Drug Addiction Reasons, Remedies, And Parental Roles: https://www.hackerslist.co/teen-drug-addiction-reasons-remedies-and-parental-roles/ https://www.hackerslist.co/teen-drug-addiction-reasons-remed...

anonygler 5y ago

This is intensely offensive. US tech companies are banned, robbed, and defrauded by China. We have no chance to compete with them in China, yet they can come here and freely. Tiktok should be banned.

say_it_as_it_is 5y ago

I can't watch TikTok. It's the most obnoxious media I've ever seen. Where is the pause or stop button!? The UX feels like a ride on a rail car without brakes that is run by a coked out conductor.

bob229 5y ago

Humanity is doomed, good riddance

mkr-hn 5y ago

I wish the thing killing Google's golden goose weren't worse than Google. TikTok does it by pairing Twitter-level burnout-causing engagement juicing with short videos with no option to turn off autoplay.

SeanFerree 5y ago

I feel like even though TikTok is more popular right now, YouTube is stronger and will eventually be number one again

fennecfoxy 5y ago

Yeah, probably because I never watch YT on the app, usually casting via Chromecast to a projector. YT now has their "shorts" as well that they're desperately trying to push to fill the gap that TikTok (well actually Vine) has created. But their big mistake was only allowing people to watch shorts on mobile...