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European Union recommends halting non-essential travel from the U.S.
- jacquesc 5y agoAs much as it pains me not to be able to travel to Europe, it's totally fair since the US isn't allowing Europeans in either. At this point, travel bans are just politics. If we are only allowing vaccinated individuals in, the idea of a foreigner contributing to increased danger to our society is just nonsense.
- kristofferR 5y agoThis sucks for me, as it makes it way harder to return from my upcoming US trip. It's already hard enough to travel to the US from Europe, you need a 14-day stop somewhere not banned, but now returning is going to get harder too.
- nradov 5y agoA lot of people have been transiting through Serbia lately since it's not part of the EU. The arrivals area was packed shoulder to shoulder when I was there last month.
- kristofferR 5y agoI'm thinking maybe Egypt, would be nice to get to see the pyramids and culture.
- 988747 5y agoDo you guys have direct flights to US? I was thinking about Croatia for the same reason, but all flights from there to US seem to require layover in London or Paris, which makes them useless (even few hours at EU or UK airport is enough to "taint" the whole trip).
- moonchrome 5y agoHow would that work ? Croatia is a EU member.
- Ambroos 5y agoCroatia is an EU member, but not a Schengen zone country. The ban is on Schengen zone countries, not on the EU.
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- moftz 5y agoWouldn't the EU allow for citizens to return from travel, regardless of whether it was an essential trip or not? The bans are essentially just entry visa restrictions that the airlines are enforcing. Finding a seat on a plane might be difficult because of reduced demand but essential people would still need to travel so there should be something available.
- kristofferR 5y agoI haven't looked into it properly yet, but let's hope so!
- cr1895 5y agoEU citizens for sure will be allowed to return, as it has been throughout the entire pandemic. Same generally with EU permanent residents. There may be quarantine or other obligations however.
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y agoNot EU citizens, citizens of a specific country. If you're from Slovakia and there is no direct flight from the US, and the other EU countries ban entry from the US, it's at discretion of individual countries to let you through (or not).
- noja 5y agoHow is it harder? You are resident somewhere, you prove you are negative and fly back. Except Australia. WTF Australia.
- GDC7 5y agoThese measures are counterproductive. It's time to divorce the life of the vaccinated people from the non-vaccinated ones. Even if the vaccine was dangerous (which it isn't) then it's even more necessary to reward those who did face the peril and got the jab. Instead these rational/brave people are at the mercy and held hostage by the irrational/cowards . If you got the jab you should be able to travel. Full stop.
- ed_elliott_asc 5y agoI just find it sad that there is a way that people can be protected but they don’t take it up - I don’t care who is allowed to travel and who isn’t, I want everyone to get the best possible outcomes out of life.
- atty 5y agoAs an American, it’s not the EUs job to manage the…. Less than rational amongst us over here. If the US government doesn’t have the backbone to enforce strict mask and vaccine mandates, it seems only logical and right that other countries will do things like this.
- GDC7 5y agoIt's the same everywhere. There is a 40-10% in every country which won't get the vaccine. It's not their fault, there is some mechanism inside their brains which makes them highly skeptical of everything. And there are so many of them because back in the days it was an evolutionary advantage to be skeptical of everything. Back when humans lived in groups of hundreds to thousands and were routinely attacked by other groups of hundreds to thousands.
- huibf 5y agoDon't most EU countries surpass this limit already anyway?
- vimy 5y agoDelta is past its high point in the US. This is just a retaliation because the Biden administration promised to allow EU visitors again and they didn’t do it.
- ginko 5y agoI tend to agree that this is mainly about reciprocity.
- revel 5y agoIt doesn't look like delta has crested yet: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html#hotspots https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html... Also, yes, I agree with you that this is likely retaliation.
- blibble 5y agoit's also after the summer tourism season is ending
- freewilly1040 5y agoSome especially high prevalence places have indeed peaked within the US: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/louisiana-covid-cases.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/louisiana-covid-... (and yes this peaking predates Ida) So while I don't think you can say we have already peaked as a country, there is reason for optimism we are very near the peak or just over it.
- revel 5y agoSorry to be a downer but I'm having a hard time being optimistic about the situation. My prediction is that pretty much every child in America will contract delta within the next month. The approach towards vaccinations and masking in schools has been absurd. I'm so disappointed that the FDA haven't prioritized vaccinations for kids. Now a ton of kids are going to die unnecessarily.
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- kristofferR 5y agoThis, in reality, has little to with the increase of Delta cases in the US. It's more about the lack of reciprocity from the US after the EU opened up for travel from the US. The rise of Delta cases in the US is just a convenient excuse to fix the inbalance.
- whatshisface 5y agoI don't get why the US would not reciprocate because US coronavirus levels are so high travelers from the EU would serve more to dilute it than add to it if anything.
- duxup 5y ago> travelers from the EU would serve more to dilute it I'm not sure there are enough to show up in numbers are there?
- whatshisface 5y agoThe numbers wouldn't show up, but strictly speaking that would happen.
- kristofferR 5y agoYeah, and the list of banned countries is totally stupid too. The list is short and doesn't ban countries with way more infections than the listed ones. People can travel from all over Africa for example, but not Europe. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/from-other-countries.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/from-oth...
- input_sh 5y agoYeah it bans only Shengen area of Europe, excluding some EU countries (Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria), the rest of the Balkans, and non-EU Eastern European countries (like Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova). It makes zero sense and it's not nearly as flexible as the EU, which adds and removes countries from the ban list frequently.
- novaRom 5y agoAny travel in current circumstances is absolute disaster anyway. Expensive time consuming PCR tests, online registrations, temperature+visual checkpoints, qr codes, digital passes. Different agencies now collect a lot of private information about travelers including biometrics!
- BasilPH 5y agoTo enter the US a rapid antigen test is enough.
- bradlys 5y agoI didn't find it really that big of a hassle. Sure - it added maybe a few hours of complication to my two week vacation but it wasn't that bad. Definitely would go through that rather than not have the option at all.
- rsynnott 5y agoI travelled last week (from Ireland to Spain and back again); I had to fill in a couple of forms ahead of time and show slightly more barcodes/qr codes than usual (vaccine cert and each country's travel locator thingy), but really it wasn't too bad. The locator forms are weirdly _inconsistent_, though; the Spanish one asks for seat number and incorporates the vaccine cert; the Irish one isn't interested in seat number and you have to show the vaccine cert separately. I'm somewhat surprised this hasn't all been standardised.
- brink 5y agoI feel bad for all the bi-national relationships being severed by this. I was one of them last year.
- failrate 5y agoAntimaskers and antivaxxers frequently talk about their "freedoms" in the abstract. Here is an example where I am concretely losing my freedom to travel, because a portion of the populace refuse to take basic precautions.
- TheBlight 5y agoYou've been duped into blaming an out-group for your problems.
- toiletfuneral 5y agohttps://www.wect.com/2021/08/29/unmasked-elementary-school-teacher-infects-half-class-with-covid-19-cdc-says/ https://www.wect.com/2021/08/29/unmasked-elementary-school-t...
- failrate 5y agoThis isn't the case where the actions of the group are harmless to me. Unvaccinated people and antimaskers are creating a more dangerous environment for me through their actions and inactions.
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- huibf 5y agoIf you are vaccinated then you have nothing to worry about, right? ;-)
- otterley 5y agoNot necessarily. The number of COVID infection cases related to new variants among the vaccinated population is increasing. That's why I'm back to wearing a mask again. If everyone had been vaccinated as soon as the vaccine was available to them, and were using good mask and hand-washing hygiene, it might not have come to this.
- throw_nbvc1234 5y agoHow much do COVID policies (mask mandates, vaccine uptake, allowed/disallowed events and gatherings, ect...) vary within a single European country? Compared to differences between States in the USA for example?
- cm2187 5y agoPretty much nothing is done at the European level, and this announcement is little more than a suggestion. It is all decided at a member state level and countries adopt inconsistent policies, even for travels within the EU.
- retrac 5y agoDepends on the country. In Germany, it's a federal country much like the USA, and such decisions are made at the state level. So there is not uniformity. But some policies, like masks in stores, are not as controversial as in the USA and so are pretty universally imposed. Other countries have centralized national governments with full jurisdiction over public health and the capability of imposing a uniform policy nationwide. Some indeed have uniform policies. Others have policies that vary by region depending on the infection rate, etc. (You see the same thing within US, or German, states.)
- nradov 5y agoThere is no consistent EU policy on masks in stores. I don't think Sweden ever had such a policy, and Denmark recently eliminated theirs. The differences between EU countries seem to be as large as those between US states. https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/coronavirus-denmark-removes-last-of-its-obligatory-mask-rules-2509641 https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/coronavirus-denmark-removes-...
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y agoIt varies. In Germany each land and city (as far as I recall from my trip to Munich) can have different rules, in Poland there's only central government which does it.
- rsynnott 5y ago
- TheBlight 5y agoTravel restrictions anywhere are ridiculous at this point. The virus is everywhere already.
- brink 5y agoAgreed. Everyone flying in and out is vetted and tested. That's more than anyone can say for their local supermarket. Borders are some of the most "covid-secure" places in the world. This shit is just politics at this point.
- nostromo 5y agoIt's security theater, but in response to public health instead of terrorism concerns.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago> This shit is just politics at this point. I think it has been for a while. I don't remember the exact date, but around the end of 2020 / beginning 2021 at one point travel between France and the UK was allowed. Then suddenly, UK deemed France as too dangerous or something, which could be justified since cases in France were rising rapidly, whereas in Britain they were relatively stable. The next day, France halted travel from the UK "in retaliation". It seems to me that the level of danger of a country isn't particularly related to how that country's politicians view your own, but what do I know?
- nradov 5y agoAre migrants still traveling from France to the UK by stowing away on commercial trucks? (And to be clear I'm not trying to make a political point about migration, just curious about the current state of border security.) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35807136 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35807136
- swiley 5y agoLooking back it’s been that since April last year.
- thanatos519 5y agoSounds like a good idea even without the pandemic.
- micromacrofoot 5y agoWhy is travel banned from the EU still anyway? the travel bans seem kind of random and unmaintained at this point... is there a good source that summarizes what's going on?
- humanistbot 5y agoThis is a non-mandatory recommendation by an advisory agency. It is entirely up to individual EU member states about whether they will bar vaccinated and/or non-vaccinated travelers from the U.S.
- kingsloi 5y agoJust anecdotal/my 2c, My little girl was born in September 2020 in Chicago, USA, she was diagnosed with heart disease, and as it turns out a really rare genetic condition. She passed away in May 2021. My family all live in the UK. My little girl died without ever meeting her granddad, her aunt, her uncle, etc. I had to livestream her funeral to my family/friends. Added an additional level of pain and suffering, to an already incredibly terrible situation. I feel immense guilt, for whatever reason. COVID would have likely killed my severely immunocompromised child. In the speech I read at her funeral, I said: > For the people who didn’t meet her or spent little time with her. I am sorry. I’m not apologising personally, I’m just acknowledging how terrible it must have been to look but not touch. Some had it better than others. Some only got to see her through a screen. There were no winners in this situation, only losers. I didn't kiss my child's face until the last week of her life. I really am burnt out from all this, especially with no end in sight. edit: I appreciate the condolences/well wishes. I wasn't trying to elicit sympathy, I just wanted to give some insight to someone who had no choice other than to do what was best for their child (or so I thought).
- fortuna86 5y agoI'm so sorry.
- hartator 5y agoMy condolences. It’s so upsetting and sad.
- dabeeeenster 5y agoI'm sorry for your loss, kingsloi.
- Benjamin_Dobell 5y agoI'm sure you've heard it many times before, and words simply don't do it justice. But I am so terribly sorry to hear you had to go through (are going through) that.
- cschep 5y agoWhat a horrible thing to happen to you and your family. </3
- bee_rider 5y agoI wonder how this metric looks on a state-by-state basis (not that it is their responsibility to look at us on such a granular level, it just seem like it could be good for business to let in people from NYC or California or other major economic hubs).
- danielscrubs 5y agoI see a lot of smack talking and not much in numbers. Let's change that: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases#weekly-and-biweekly-cases-where-are-confirmed-cases-increasing-or-falling https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases#weekly-and-biweekly-c...
- kristofferR 5y agoThat's only valid in rich countries with good test regimes though, poor countries can have way less cases yet more infections.
- noja 5y agoITT: HN turns into FB.
- cblconfederate 5y agowhy does everyone think this is a political thing? I didn't even know there is a ban on US travel to EU and it's not something being discussed a lot in europe. This summer had a lot of issues already (fires heatwaves floods afghanistan etc) and delta is gaining ground quick despite vaccinations so it makes sense to prepare for 4th wave as soon as holidaymakers return. I also think that americans are underestimating the situation of the upcoming months
- CryptoPunk 5y agoThis is security theatre to placate the masses. Delta is already in every country. Vaccinated incoming travellers with recent tests showing negative results would have a negligible impact on total Delta infections. Moreover, Delta is not a significant threat in countries where at-risk populations have been mostly vaccinated, which describes the US and most European countries. Infections != deaths.
- orwin 5y agoYeah, it probably won't be implemented in France or germany, i think we both have 80 to 85% of the population vaccinated. Its a recomendation, not a law, and most countries don't follow EU recommendations. The reason it was drafted is because it allows small countries who want to ban US travelers without facing retribution "I'm sorry, its a EU recommendation, not our own will no hard feelings, please don't ban our imports". By the way, this is used during PPP decision-making (find some obscure EU laws to veto some private partners decision, like using Azure cloud for AI4EU), and probably used politically, internally or externally to deny demands "No, it is impossible, the EU have a reco/law/designated standard on this" (And in 80% of the cases, this is non-binding). I think this is the real power of the EU, giving politicians the possibility of deflecting blame. Most positive effect of Brexit for the UK is this imho.
- munk-a 5y agoThe US, at this point, only has a slim majority of residents vaccinated - and all the evidence I've seen points to the fact that working age folks (those more likely to have a wide number of contacts in a day and those most likely to be doing the traveling) have mostly voluntarily eschewed the vaccine. As a Canadian - we had trouble getting access to the vaccine for a long time - but we're closing in on 75% of the population vaccinated with vaccination rates only slightly beginning to taper off.
- tinbad 5y agoMy twins were born June 2020 and all my immediate family (parents, brother, etc) live in the EU and haven’t been able to see them (nor their other grandkids). Not allowing tourists to come visit I can get behind but splitting up close family, especially for these extended periods of time (and especially when they are vaccinated!) is just cruel and senseless. I really don’t see how this is helping anything, given that countless countries with much higher case rates are not on the banned list.
- second--shift 5y ago> This is without prejudice to the possibility for member states to lift the temporary restriction on non-essential travel to the EU for fully vaccinated travellers. I already have a trip planned to a Shengen country, planned months in advance. Everything is already paid for. I am also vaccinated fully (with certificate). Am I going to be allowed on my vacation next week?
- fabbari 5y agoShort answer is: yes. Just remember to fill the Passenger Locator Form [0]. You may fill any time before getting to the boarding area, where they will ask to see that and your vaccination card or a negative test obtained within 48 hours. Technically is 72 hours, but airlines are stricter. It will take a minute before the single EU countries will adopt regulations following the the recommendation. [0] https://app.euplf.eu/ https://app.euplf.eu/
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y agoThat being said any country can implement any restrictions at their discretion, and you might not be allowed in hotels, for instance (although that was implemented mostly during harsher spikes).
- nicbou 5y agoThis is ridiculous. I can travel everywhere in Europe, drink inside and outside, walk in dense crowds and in some places go clubbing. No one asked to see my vaccination certificate. No one wears masks in some countries. Americans aren't a threat when we've collectively moved on.
- yebyen 5y agoThis is what it's like here in Northern Indiana as well. Nobody is stopped from any usual activities, businesses are free to enforce mask mandates on their own premises but most aren't. And you will generally have no idea whether people around you are vaccinated or not, unless you are in a University or somewhere that enforces vaccination, generally this is only if they are actually large enough to register on the local scale as "potential identified source of many new infections" and would want to stay out of the news in that way – ahem, I mean somewhere that is invested in keeping people safe. I am planning some cross-country travel for a conference in October (really big one, you might have heard of it) and I am really having a hard time with it. I've mostly been isolated for the past year and a half. I am vaccinated and I would really like to see some people. But I do feel like a plague rat even making these plans. Given the number of people around me (especially as you drive outside of the city parts of Indiana and into farm country) who wear their un-vaccinated status on their sleeve or bumper sticker, as a point of pride or honor, I wouldn't say we're not a threat. But still generally agree with the sentiment.
- vkou 5y ago> Americans aren't a threat when we've collectively moved on. You may have collectively moved on, but the United States is still banning travel from many, many regions that have a much lower prevalence of COVID-19 than it does. Reciprocally banning Americans from traveling seems like an appropriate response.
- polote 5y agoIf citizens don't protest this is never going to end. That's why I don't understand why people hate antivax people. They exists mostly because politics have failed since the beginning. For any new measures that politicians make today. The more people are in favor of it the longer we will have to deal with all this nonsense. Politicians contrary to the beginning of the pandemic, are strongly confident that what they do is useful. When in fact it's all completely useless. Stop complaining about people who protest about the restrictions (whatever the restrictions), and support them. Politicians need to stop thinking that they need to act about covid. That's the only way we will end all that joke
- falcolas 5y ago> Stop complaining about people who protest about the restrictions (whatever the restrictions), and support them I refuse. So long as they - antivaxers - are filling hospital emergency rooms and killing other people by DDOSing caregivers, I absolutely fucking refuse.
- bingohbangoh 5y agoWhat about Israel? [0] What about Gibralter? They have also had huge upticks in cases and are still mostly vaccinated. The idea that this vaccine is going to cure everything feels more and more silly -- places with high vaccination rates _still have problems_. If the goal is 100% compliance on vaccinations, what do you do about other countries? These variants will be leaking out of them until the end of time. [0] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-DZDM-UUAInxW7?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-DZDM-UUAInxW7?format=jpg&name=...
- ectopod 5y agoAnd without the vaccine we would have worse problems. Most of the hospitalised in the UK are among the unvaccinated young. If the old weren't vaccinated either then the pressure on the hospitals would be far worse.
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- pc86 5y ago> The decision...comes after weeks of EU officials criticizing the Biden administration for not lifting U.S. restrictions on travel from Europe. So it's strictly retaliatory.