17 ms·

People aren’t scared up. Concern is around ICU usage and that elective surgery in hot areas are put on hold which include critical cancer removal surgeries. A

by adrr 5y ago

People aren’t scared up. Concern is around ICU usage and that elective surgery in hot areas are put on hold which include critical cancer removal surgeries. Also we have a large group of unvaccinated group which are under kids under 12. With life going back to normal, the standard diseases are back like RSV, paraflu and others. Get two at the same time and it’s a emergency room visit. Get 3 at the same time and it’s life threatening. Two at the same time isn’t uncommon before covid. Now my pediatrician says 3 is happening and it’s a kid killer. It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools.

Aeolun 5y ago
If they’re spending the whole day in a classroom together the effect of masks is going to be minimal.
- NationalPark 5y ago
  That's simply not what the research has found. Edit: Allow me to clarify - the research everyone is citing that says masking is effective in teachers and ineffective in students (the 37% number) predates both the delta variant and widespread infection in Southern states. Further, masking is understood etiologically as a prevention method and has been used successfully in other outbreaks and in other countries. Clinicians and policy makers as a rule work with incomplete data in an emerging situation, so unequivocally stating that masking kids in schools doesn't help is a very bad misrepresentation of both the data/research and the implications to policy.
  - only_as_i_fall 5y ago
    Can you provide a source? My understanding was that masks were primarily effective at preventing high viral load droplets from spreading the virus during short interactions. I don't have any source to prove that to be the case because data on the effectiveness of masks seems frustratingly sparse.
    - gzer0 5y ago
      When a novel situation presents itself, sometimes we do not have all of data we would like and clinicians have to make judgement calls to the best of their knowledge. We may not have trials or studies (these things take time) to back a very certain and/or specific claim such as "do masks prevent the spread of Covid 19?" What we do have, is fundamental knowledge and common sense and so typically, in a clinical setting we ask these questions when any new situation arises (as it happens often in medicine): - Does this reccomendation cause more harm than good? - is there even a slight chance that this clinical decision would increase the percentage chance of survival? - is it worth the inconvenience it could cause? This is called Clinical Reasoning. Thinking critically and clinically is a core tenet of the field.
      - only_as_i_fall 5y ago
        I don't disagree with anything you said, and I'm certainlynot an anti-masker, but was skeptical of the parent claim which seems to be "Research shoes masks are still effective even when spending the whole day in the same room" I'm not aware of any evidence that this is the case and I worry that people are putting too much stake in masks when really social distancing is much more effective than masks ever will be.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - AdamN 5y ago
      Keep in mind the initial dose is highly relevant to the impact of the virus in your body. There's a big difference between getting a single virus, enough to cause an infection, and enough to be highly overwhelmed before your immune system kicks in.
      - nradov 5y ago
        There is no real scientific evidence that disease severity is correlated with initial viral dose. It's a plausible hypothesis but so far due to ethical concerns no one has done the human challenge trials that would be necessary to settle that issue.
  - AndrewBissell 5y ago
    Here's an NPR article discussing a CDC study which found no statistically significant impact from kids wearing masks in school: https://www.npr.org/2021/05/21/999106426/schools-are-dropping-mask-requirements-but-new-cdc-study-suggests-they-shouldnt https://www.npr.org/2021/05/21/999106426/schools-are-droppin... Key paragraph: Between Nov. 16 and Dec. 11, researchers found that infection rates were 37% lower in schools where teachers and staff members were required to wear masks. The difference between schools that did and did not require students to wear masks was not statistically significant. A good recent article in NY Mag also discussing this issue, including the fact that the World Health Organization recommends against masking kids under six: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-maski... Many countries in Europe have decided against masking for any students in K-12 schools because it is unclear that the harms outweigh the benefits. The idea there is some "simple" scientific & research consensus on this is wrong.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    Minimal <> doesn’t help Is it worth the cost? That’s a different question. I’m not really opposed to masks in a classroom as a mitigation method, but if people believe it will significantly alter the trajectory of the infections I have a bridge to sell them.
- cpuguy83 5y ago
  Is that from that one Armchair U study?
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  Masks is too broad of a term as being used. There are OSHA environments where proper N95-type masks can protect you from aerosol risks for 8 hours a day. The likelihood that a cloth mask can do that in a classroom however… Best mitigator would be good HEPA room air purifiers, ideally multiple per classroom.
  - handrous 5y ago
    > Best mitigator would be good HEPA room air purifiers, ideally multiple per classroom. They can be too loud to run while class is in session, especially if they move enough air to be worth a damn. Double-especially if you're also masked (so speaking is already a bit muffled).
    - tehjoker 5y ago
      Why don't we shift classes to be outside and swap summer and winter for now?
    - patentatt 5y ago
      I've got a couple of Coway HEPA purifiers, and they can be quiet enough for a classroom. At low speeds, the closest to inaudible that I've ever heard, and at higher speeds a very even and tolerable white/brown noise.
      - handrous 5y ago
        I'm sure some that are good-enough and not loud exist, and some classrooms probably have them, but I can also say for a fact that some schools that have managed to get ahold of good purifiers for every classroom haven't also managed to get ahold of quiet good purifiers, which is why those schools only run them part of the time. It's another hurdle to the solution of "just filter the air", which isn't per se a bad idea—but, whoever's procuring them must think to look into the noise when choosing which to buy, must have the budget to buy quiet ones that move as much air as appropriately-effective louder models (I assume there's a cost premium for "quiet and also effective"), and if someone's already bought purifiers and they're too loud, you're out of luck on getting anyone to pony up cash for a second set of (maybe even more expensive) purifiers.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  Here's one of the scientists on President Biden's Covid advisory council being interviewed on PBS. TLDR: To get the sort of protection people imagine that cloth masks provide, you would need to be wearing an n95 mask, tightly fitted to your face so no air leaks in through the sides. https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks-provide-much-protection-we-think-bglhwy/ https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks...
  - stetrain 5y ago
    But what's the actual effectiveness of most people wearing their normal cloth masks? It doesn't have to personally protect you at high effectiveness from getting infected to reduce spread at a population level. Even a 50% reduction in spread is huge in a population. Maybe we aren't getting that with masks, but it's not a binary "you are protected"/"you are not protected" problem.
    - GeekyBear 5y ago
      From the interview: >Needless to say, masking is political hot button beyond anything I've ever seen in public health. At the same time i think we've all done a disservice to the public. When you actually look at face cloth coverings, they actually only have very limited impact in reducing the amount of virus that you inhale in or exhale out. Studies that have been done show that if an individual might get infected within 15 minutes in a room, by time and concentration of the virus in the room, add a face cloth covering you only get about five more minutes of protection. I've been really disappointed with my colleagues in public health for not being more clear about what can masking can do or not do. On the other hand if you use the n95 respirators and fit them tight to your face, you can actually spend 25 hours in that same room and still be protected. The bottom line though is by telling people that in fact just putting a face cloth covering on is going to protect you is simply not true. https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks-provide-much-protection-we-think-bglhwy/ https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks... Cloth masks are nowhere near good enough protection to allow children too young to be vaccinated to return to school.
- heywherelogingo 5y ago
  Is there any point spending the day in the classroom with reduced oxygen to the brain?
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Are you under the impression surgeons in hospitals are chronically hypoxic?
  - thephyber 5y ago
    Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that a cloth or N95 style mask reduces oxygen to the brain by any measurable amount?
h3cate 5y ago
Are there any studies into the effects of being infected by multiple of these viruses at the same time? Or is this just what your doctor has told you? Also what do kids under 12 have to do with any of this?
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Studies will take time. That said: https://www.npr.org/2021/08/14/1027663917/rsv-covid-children https://www.npr.org/2021/08/14/1027663917/rsv-covid-children > At Texas Children's Hospital in Houston on Thursday, 25 of 45 hospitalized pediatric patients were diagnosed with RSV as well as COVID-19. "A hospitalization rate much higher than for either virus alone," according to officials. > At the moment there is little data available on the impact of contracting both viruses and whether the two together can make a person sicker. But health officials worry it could put young patients — who are not eligible for the vaccine — at greater risk.
  - h3cate 5y ago
    Interesting but until there is some real data around this personally I would rather see people who we know are at risk, elderly in poorer countries, get the vaccine over under 12s in first world countries. That's just my opinion though
  - AndrewBissell 5y ago
    > At Texas Children's Hospital in Houston on Thursday, 25 of 45 hospitalized pediatric patients were diagnosed with RSV as well as COVID-19. "A hospitalization rate much higher than for either virus alone," according to officials. Would be interested to see the exact breakdown here. If 19 children are hospitalized with RSV+Covid, 5 with just RSV, and 1 with just Covid, it could just indicate RSV is particularly virulent for children and they are likely to also have Covid given they have been exposed to RSV. This would certainly fit with what we already know about the relative risks posed to children by RSV vs Covid. This article from the Guardian suggests that the reason RSV is having an off-season surge is because children now have an "immunity debt" from being isolated as part of Covid protocols. It would probably not be a good idea not for us to double down on the measures that have brought us to this point. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-ch... Good thread by an MD here discussing these issues and saying that coinfection rates are 50% for kids: https://twitter.com/contrarian4data/status/1429854876415131649 https://twitter.com/contrarian4data/status/14298548764151316...
fxtentacle 5y ago
Only recently did we reach the threshold where the majority believes in evolution, as opposed to "God created everything".
martin_bech 5y ago
The masks part is easy.. it has no effect.. We have been on and off masks here in Denmark, and it seems to have no effect on spread. Also mostly you get covid when not wearing one.. from a family member or a friend..
- martin_bech 5y ago
  Thanks for the downvotes.. still wont make the masks work. Get vaccinated.
  - playguardin 5y ago
    Bad news. The vax doesnt work either. :(
- grumpitron 5y ago
  Isn’t this a contradiction? “Masks don’t work” and then in the next paragraph “mostly you get COVID when not wearing [a mask]”
  - heywherelogingo 5y ago
    Only if you truncate the sentence as you have done.
    - grumpitron 5y ago
      Can you help me understand how “catching COVID while not wearing a mask” is meaningfully different from “catching COVID from a family member while not wearing masks” in the context of whether masks are effective in preventing the spread of COVID? Seems an irrelevant distinction to me.
      - anang 5y ago
        I think: You’re not catching covid in situations where you’d typically wear a mask (regardless of masking), rather where you typical don’t wear a mask, like from family member. I’m not really saying I agree, but I think that is the context.
rayiner 5y ago
> It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools. It really shouldn’t if you’re an educated person who is following what scientific authorities are saying. The science here is still uncertain, but leaning towards masks for kids in schools not being worth it. See: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-maski... > At the end of May, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a notable, yet mostly ignored, large-scale study of COVID transmission in American schools… Distancing, hybrid models, classroom barriers, HEPA filters, and, most notably, requiring student masking were each found to not have a statistically significant benefit. In other words, these measures could not be said to be effective. > In the realm of science and public-health policy outside the U.S., the implications of these particular findings are not exactly controversial. Many of America’s peer nations around the world — including the U.K., Ireland, all of Scandinavia, France, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Italy — have exempted kids, with varying age cutoffs, from wearing masks in classrooms.
- herbst 5y ago
  Not entirely true. Switzerland is starting to mandate masks for kids in schools again because current numbers show that kids (again) are a thriving factor for infections.
- unityByFreedom 5y ago
  Long-term we should just adopt the practice of wearing one if you're symptomatic. It helps reduce spread. This is what Asia started doing after SARS. It's considered a courtesy, just as we consider it a courtesy to cover your mouth when coughing or sneezing.
  - kmeisthax 5y ago
    Japan kept doing it after Spanish Flu. Unfortunately, given that 1910s America and 2020s America both had significant (and in my mind, unwarranted) resistance to wearing face masks; I would not be surprised if "wear a mask if you feel sick" fails to make it into common understanding in America a second time.
titzer 5y ago
> It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools. It doesn't really boggle my mind, it's just that the conclusions it suggests about fellow Americans are really hard to swallow. There is a lot of political polarization in the US and cranking through the implications and reasons for ostensibly pro-COVID policies and attitudes is really disheartening. It's a schism that isn't healed easily. If anything, an impersonal virus, an implacable, impossible-to-anthropomorphize, zero-upside health hazard could have easily been something for the entire world to unite against. Instead, we got more and deeper division and louder and more extreme and more destructive arguments. And we lost a lot of people and maimed even more. And the reason that couldn't happen: Money. The economy. Me. Freedumbs! COVID exposed people's real priorities and objectives and showed how craven and myopic our political leaders really are.
commandlinefan 5y ago
> mandating kids to wear masks in schools There's no evidence that wearing masks prevents contracting Covid (or any other airborne virus). It does a bit toward preventing spreading it if you already have it, but if you already have it, the schools send you home anyway. It's also not as if masks are themselves neutral either - constant mask wearing is associated with higher rates of bacterial pneumonia. Even medical professionals never wore masks all day (until last year), just when they were performing surgery.
- jdavis703 5y ago
  > It does a bit toward preventing spreading it if you already have it, but if you already have it, the schools send you home anyway Most of the schools that do testing due so weekly. With delta someone can be contagious up to 36 hours after infection. That means someone who gets tested on Friday morning, goes to a poorly ventilated party with a COVID-19+ that evening and returns to school on Monday could spread the disease for a week.
- bobsomers 5y ago
  > There's no evidence that wearing masks prevents contracting Covid (or any other airborne virus). It does a bit toward preventing spreading it if you already have it What you just described is the same thing, it's simply a matter of perspective. If you wear a mask, it helps me by reducing the chances that you spread it to me if you have it but aren't experiencing symptoms yet. It works the same way in reverse. I don't wear a mask to protect myself, I wear it to protect others in the case that I'm shedding virus and don't know it yet.

by adrr 5y ago

Aeolun 5y ago

If they’re spending the whole day in a classroom together the effect of masks is going to be minimal.

NationalPark 5y ago
That's simply not what the research has found. Edit: Allow me to clarify - the research everyone is citing that says masking is effective in teachers and ineffective in students (the 37% number) predates both the delta variant and widespread infection in Southern states. Further, masking is understood etiologically as a prevention method and has been used successfully in other outbreaks and in other countries. Clinicians and policy makers as a rule work with incomplete data in an emerging situation, so unequivocally stating that masking kids in schools doesn't help is a very bad misrepresentation of both the data/research and the implications to policy.
- only_as_i_fall 5y ago
  Can you provide a source? My understanding was that masks were primarily effective at preventing high viral load droplets from spreading the virus during short interactions. I don't have any source to prove that to be the case because data on the effectiveness of masks seems frustratingly sparse.
  - gzer0 5y ago
    When a novel situation presents itself, sometimes we do not have all of data we would like and clinicians have to make judgement calls to the best of their knowledge. We may not have trials or studies (these things take time) to back a very certain and/or specific claim such as "do masks prevent the spread of Covid 19?" What we do have, is fundamental knowledge and common sense and so typically, in a clinical setting we ask these questions when any new situation arises (as it happens often in medicine): - Does this reccomendation cause more harm than good? - is there even a slight chance that this clinical decision would increase the percentage chance of survival? - is it worth the inconvenience it could cause? This is called Clinical Reasoning. Thinking critically and clinically is a core tenet of the field.
    - only_as_i_fall 5y ago
      I don't disagree with anything you said, and I'm certainlynot an anti-masker, but was skeptical of the parent claim which seems to be "Research shoes masks are still effective even when spending the whole day in the same room" I'm not aware of any evidence that this is the case and I worry that people are putting too much stake in masks when really social distancing is much more effective than masks ever will be.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - AdamN 5y ago
    Keep in mind the initial dose is highly relevant to the impact of the virus in your body. There's a big difference between getting a single virus, enough to cause an infection, and enough to be highly overwhelmed before your immune system kicks in.
    - nradov 5y ago
      There is no real scientific evidence that disease severity is correlated with initial viral dose. It's a plausible hypothesis but so far due to ethical concerns no one has done the human challenge trials that would be necessary to settle that issue.
- AndrewBissell 5y ago
  Here's an NPR article discussing a CDC study which found no statistically significant impact from kids wearing masks in school: https://www.npr.org/2021/05/21/999106426/schools-are-dropping-mask-requirements-but-new-cdc-study-suggests-they-shouldnt https://www.npr.org/2021/05/21/999106426/schools-are-droppin... Key paragraph: Between Nov. 16 and Dec. 11, researchers found that infection rates were 37% lower in schools where teachers and staff members were required to wear masks. The difference between schools that did and did not require students to wear masks was not statistically significant. A good recent article in NY Mag also discussing this issue, including the fact that the World Health Organization recommends against masking kids under six: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-maski... Many countries in Europe have decided against masking for any students in K-12 schools because it is unclear that the harms outweigh the benefits. The idea there is some "simple" scientific & research consensus on this is wrong.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  Minimal <> doesn’t help Is it worth the cost? That’s a different question. I’m not really opposed to masks in a classroom as a mitigation method, but if people believe it will significantly alter the trajectory of the infections I have a bridge to sell them.
cpuguy83 5y ago
Is that from that one Armchair U study?
mensetmanusman 5y ago
Masks is too broad of a term as being used. There are OSHA environments where proper N95-type masks can protect you from aerosol risks for 8 hours a day. The likelihood that a cloth mask can do that in a classroom however… Best mitigator would be good HEPA room air purifiers, ideally multiple per classroom.
- handrous 5y ago
  > Best mitigator would be good HEPA room air purifiers, ideally multiple per classroom. They can be too loud to run while class is in session, especially if they move enough air to be worth a damn. Double-especially if you're also masked (so speaking is already a bit muffled).
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    Why don't we shift classes to be outside and swap summer and winter for now?
  - patentatt 5y ago
    I've got a couple of Coway HEPA purifiers, and they can be quiet enough for a classroom. At low speeds, the closest to inaudible that I've ever heard, and at higher speeds a very even and tolerable white/brown noise.
    - handrous 5y ago
      I'm sure some that are good-enough and not loud exist, and some classrooms probably have them, but I can also say for a fact that some schools that have managed to get ahold of good purifiers for every classroom haven't also managed to get ahold of quiet good purifiers, which is why those schools only run them part of the time. It's another hurdle to the solution of "just filter the air", which isn't per se a bad idea—but, whoever's procuring them must think to look into the noise when choosing which to buy, must have the budget to buy quiet ones that move as much air as appropriately-effective louder models (I assume there's a cost premium for "quiet and also effective"), and if someone's already bought purifiers and they're too loud, you're out of luck on getting anyone to pony up cash for a second set of (maybe even more expensive) purifiers.
GeekyBear 5y ago
Here's one of the scientists on President Biden's Covid advisory council being interviewed on PBS. TLDR: To get the sort of protection people imagine that cloth masks provide, you would need to be wearing an n95 mask, tightly fitted to your face so no air leaks in through the sides. https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks-provide-much-protection-we-think-bglhwy/ https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks...
- stetrain 5y ago
  But what's the actual effectiveness of most people wearing their normal cloth masks? It doesn't have to personally protect you at high effectiveness from getting infected to reduce spread at a population level. Even a 50% reduction in spread is huge in a population. Maybe we aren't getting that with masks, but it's not a binary "you are protected"/"you are not protected" problem.
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    From the interview: >Needless to say, masking is political hot button beyond anything I've ever seen in public health. At the same time i think we've all done a disservice to the public. When you actually look at face cloth coverings, they actually only have very limited impact in reducing the amount of virus that you inhale in or exhale out. Studies that have been done show that if an individual might get infected within 15 minutes in a room, by time and concentration of the virus in the room, add a face cloth covering you only get about five more minutes of protection. I've been really disappointed with my colleagues in public health for not being more clear about what can masking can do or not do. On the other hand if you use the n95 respirators and fit them tight to your face, you can actually spend 25 hours in that same room and still be protected. The bottom line though is by telling people that in fact just putting a face cloth covering on is going to protect you is simply not true. https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks-provide-much-protection-we-think-bglhwy/ https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks... Cloth masks are nowhere near good enough protection to allow children too young to be vaccinated to return to school.
heywherelogingo 5y ago
Is there any point spending the day in the classroom with reduced oxygen to the brain?
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Are you under the impression surgeons in hospitals are chronically hypoxic?
- thephyber 5y ago
  Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that a cloth or N95 style mask reduces oxygen to the brain by any measurable amount?

h3cate 5y ago

Are there any studies into the effects of being infected by multiple of these viruses at the same time? Or is this just what your doctor has told you? Also what do kids under 12 have to do with any of this?

ceejayoz 5y ago
Studies will take time. That said: https://www.npr.org/2021/08/14/1027663917/rsv-covid-children https://www.npr.org/2021/08/14/1027663917/rsv-covid-children > At Texas Children's Hospital in Houston on Thursday, 25 of 45 hospitalized pediatric patients were diagnosed with RSV as well as COVID-19. "A hospitalization rate much higher than for either virus alone," according to officials. > At the moment there is little data available on the impact of contracting both viruses and whether the two together can make a person sicker. But health officials worry it could put young patients — who are not eligible for the vaccine — at greater risk.
- h3cate 5y ago
  Interesting but until there is some real data around this personally I would rather see people who we know are at risk, elderly in poorer countries, get the vaccine over under 12s in first world countries. That's just my opinion though
- AndrewBissell 5y ago
  > At Texas Children's Hospital in Houston on Thursday, 25 of 45 hospitalized pediatric patients were diagnosed with RSV as well as COVID-19. "A hospitalization rate much higher than for either virus alone," according to officials. Would be interested to see the exact breakdown here. If 19 children are hospitalized with RSV+Covid, 5 with just RSV, and 1 with just Covid, it could just indicate RSV is particularly virulent for children and they are likely to also have Covid given they have been exposed to RSV. This would certainly fit with what we already know about the relative risks posed to children by RSV vs Covid. This article from the Guardian suggests that the reason RSV is having an off-season surge is because children now have an "immunity debt" from being isolated as part of Covid protocols. It would probably not be a good idea not for us to double down on the measures that have brought us to this point. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-ch... Good thread by an MD here discussing these issues and saying that coinfection rates are 50% for kids: https://twitter.com/contrarian4data/status/1429854876415131649 https://twitter.com/contrarian4data/status/14298548764151316...

fxtentacle 5y ago

Only recently did we reach the threshold where the majority believes in evolution, as opposed to "God created everything".

martin_bech 5y ago

The masks part is easy.. it has no effect.. We have been on and off masks here in Denmark, and it seems to have no effect on spread. Also mostly you get covid when not wearing one.. from a family member or a friend..

martin_bech 5y ago
Thanks for the downvotes.. still wont make the masks work. Get vaccinated.
- playguardin 5y ago
  Bad news. The vax doesnt work either. :(
grumpitron 5y ago
Isn’t this a contradiction? “Masks don’t work” and then in the next paragraph “mostly you get COVID when not wearing [a mask]”
- heywherelogingo 5y ago
  Only if you truncate the sentence as you have done.
  - grumpitron 5y ago
    Can you help me understand how “catching COVID while not wearing a mask” is meaningfully different from “catching COVID from a family member while not wearing masks” in the context of whether masks are effective in preventing the spread of COVID? Seems an irrelevant distinction to me.
    - anang 5y ago
      I think: You’re not catching covid in situations where you’d typically wear a mask (regardless of masking), rather where you typical don’t wear a mask, like from family member. I’m not really saying I agree, but I think that is the context.

rayiner 5y ago

> It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools. It really shouldn’t if you’re an educated person who is following what scientific authorities are saying. The science here is still uncertain, but leaning towards masks for kids in schools not being worth it. See: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-maski... > At the end of May, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a notable, yet mostly ignored, large-scale study of COVID transmission in American schools… Distancing, hybrid models, classroom barriers, HEPA filters, and, most notably, requiring student masking were each found to not have a statistically significant benefit. In other words, these measures could not be said to be effective. > In the realm of science and public-health policy outside the U.S., the implications of these particular findings are not exactly controversial. Many of America’s peer nations around the world — including the U.K., Ireland, all of Scandinavia, France, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Italy — have exempted kids, with varying age cutoffs, from wearing masks in classrooms.

herbst 5y ago
Not entirely true. Switzerland is starting to mandate masks for kids in schools again because current numbers show that kids (again) are a thriving factor for infections.
unityByFreedom 5y ago
Long-term we should just adopt the practice of wearing one if you're symptomatic. It helps reduce spread. This is what Asia started doing after SARS. It's considered a courtesy, just as we consider it a courtesy to cover your mouth when coughing or sneezing.
- kmeisthax 5y ago
  Japan kept doing it after Spanish Flu. Unfortunately, given that 1910s America and 2020s America both had significant (and in my mind, unwarranted) resistance to wearing face masks; I would not be surprised if "wear a mask if you feel sick" fails to make it into common understanding in America a second time.

titzer 5y ago

> It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools. It doesn't really boggle my mind, it's just that the conclusions it suggests about fellow Americans are really hard to swallow. There is a lot of political polarization in the US and cranking through the implications and reasons for ostensibly pro-COVID policies and attitudes is really disheartening. It's a schism that isn't healed easily. If anything, an impersonal virus, an implacable, impossible-to-anthropomorphize, zero-upside health hazard could have easily been something for the entire world to unite against. Instead, we got more and deeper division and louder and more extreme and more destructive arguments. And we lost a lot of people and maimed even more. And the reason that couldn't happen: Money. The economy. Me. Freedumbs! COVID exposed people's real priorities and objectives and showed how craven and myopic our political leaders really are.

commandlinefan 5y ago

> mandating kids to wear masks in schools There's no evidence that wearing masks prevents contracting Covid (or any other airborne virus). It does a bit toward preventing spreading it if you already have it, but if you already have it, the schools send you home anyway. It's also not as if masks are themselves neutral either - constant mask wearing is associated with higher rates of bacterial pneumonia. Even medical professionals never wore masks all day (until last year), just when they were performing surgery.

jdavis703 5y ago
> It does a bit toward preventing spreading it if you already have it, but if you already have it, the schools send you home anyway Most of the schools that do testing due so weekly. With delta someone can be contagious up to 36 hours after infection. That means someone who gets tested on Friday morning, goes to a poorly ventilated party with a COVID-19+ that evening and returns to school on Monday could spread the disease for a week.
bobsomers 5y ago
> There's no evidence that wearing masks prevents contracting Covid (or any other airborne virus). It does a bit toward preventing spreading it if you already have it What you just described is the same thing, it's simply a matter of perspective. If you wear a mask, it helps me by reducing the chances that you spread it to me if you have it but aren't experiencing symptoms yet. It works the same way in reverse. I don't wear a mask to protect myself, I wear it to protect others in the case that I'm shedding virus and don't know it yet.