21 ms·

How Sweden became the Silicon Valley of Europe

227 points by levmiseri 5y ago

jamil7 5y ago
> Stockholm has become such rich soil for startups, birthing and incubating the likes of Spotify, Skype and Klarna, even though it has some of the highest tax rates in the world. Didn't Skype come from Estonia not Sweden? Edit: Scrap that I looked it up, Estonian, Swedish and Danish founders.
- eloisant 5y ago
  As I remember Skype was a Luxembourg company with effective HQ in London, and developers in Estonia.
  - kalleboo 5y ago
    Founded by a Swede and a Dane who were at the time living in Amsterdam
null_object 5y ago
The article praises the Welfare State as the major stimulus for the startup environment, but then mentions that companies intend to leave Sweden... because of the high tax rate? It's an interesting paradox and highlights the way that VCs want to suck as much value out of an economy as they possibly can, without the willingness to contribute back to it proportionately.
- durnygbur 5y ago
  The businesses aren't any more ethical in welfare states. Welfare states set the financial burden on individuals - the contributions on employment contracts, dividend and capital gains taxes there are obnoxiously enourmous. An individual there basically gets a job to take a mortgage and that's it regarding life aspirations.
  - fsloth 5y ago
    "An individual there basically gets a job to take a mortgage and that's it regarding life aspirations." Doesn't that describe most if not all economies that have middle class? Private mortgage was considered a great way to increase national wealth in "rich" post-WW2 economies. And so it became part of "the expected economic life path of the middle-class employee". Most people who are employed work to satisfy basic economic needs: 1. house 2. food 3. health and after that 4. leisure. Some even turn to 5. investment at some point. So I'm not sure what you are trying to say? Maybe expand/rephraze it a little bit?
  - Milner08 5y ago
    Found the American... You're kidding yourself if you think that's it for life aspirations. Or if you think the taxes are the end of the world. I am sure most people in 'welfare states' would agree that they would rather that than the American system.
    - durnygbur 5y ago
      I'm not American, barely ever been in America even...
  - cycomanic 5y ago
    You base your assertion on what evidence? Do you know what the capital gains tax is in Sweden? I encourage you to look up the ISK accounts. Also regarding getting a job to take a mortgage for life aspirations, the nordic countries have actually much more social mobility than most other countries in the world.
    - durnygbur 5y ago
      Both dividend and capital gains taxes in Sweden are 30%.
      - occz 5y ago
        ISKs (Investeringssparkonto, Investment savings account) are taxed at a flat amount of the account value per year, replacing capital gains taxes. In 2021, it will be 0,375%.
- galfarragem 5y ago
  The Welfare State may help startups to born but may help them to fade also. Few startups flourish in Europe. So many seeds, so few flowers.
  - theelous3 5y ago
    Few startups flourish anywhere. Or are you saying that all things being equal, a startup in europe has a lower chance of succeeding long term than in the us? Any data to back this claim?
    - lmm 5y ago
      There's a distinct lack of mega-successes coming out of Europe.
      - karl-j 5y ago
        From the article the difference doesn’t seem that huge: Stockholm - 0.8 unicorns per 100,000 Silicon Valley - 1.4 unicorns per 100,000
        lovemenot 5y ago
        Unicorn is just a threshold. Of those in both regions that crossed it, how many went through the next, then the next order of magnitude?
        cinntaile 5y ago
        That's almost double in SV, that's pretty huge.
        theelous3 5y ago
        Given the differences in available capital and labour forces, reads more like stockholm is performing like an order of magnitude better. I'd also be interested in seeing long term outcomes. I'd wager stockholms is stronger.
- alkonaut 5y ago
  Corporate tax rates are the same as other countries in Western Europe, and lower than the US. Income taxes and payroll taxes are (significantly) higher though. Companies don’t need to leave the country but may want to hire top talent elsewhere if they need to keep taxes low. For me as a Swede, keeping as little as half of my gross pay isn’t a big issue since I’m not required to pay for my kids higher education (or any education for that matter), nor do I need to save up a lot for retirement or future illness. But I can understand someone who wants to go to Sweden for a 5 year stint and needs to aggregate as much as possible because their kids will go to expensive schools etc. Moving to a high-tax high social security labor market can seem like a one way street in that regard.
  - Strum355 5y ago
    > Corporate tax rates are the same as other countries in Western Europe Except for Ireland with its 12.5%
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - hogFeast 5y ago
      "12.5%"...there is relatively little evidence that tech companies are paying anything close to this rate (yes, after the loopholes were closed...still plenty of loopholes left).
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      Makes you feel the solution to the Brexit-induced problem with the Northern Ireland border is to kick Ireland out (if they don't shape up ASAP).
      - fennecfoxen 5y ago
        Why stop there? Kick out Poland and Belarus for being undemocratic, kick out the rest of Eastern Europe for being homophobic, and then kick out Greece and Italy for the unsustainable deficits — maybe Spain and Portugal, by that point, too.
- wutwutwutwut 5y ago
  > VCs Same applies to most companies, right?
  - csomar 5y ago
    > Same applies to most companies, right? Same applies to most people (and animals too).
    - amelius 5y ago
      Civilization would never have happened if it depended only on "most people" or animals. Greedy VCs/companies don't deserve to reap the benefits of civilization.
- csomar 5y ago
  > It's an interesting paradox and highlights the way that VCs want to suck as much value out of an economy as they possibly can, without the willingness to contribute back to it proportionately. Did you just define arbitrage?
durnygbur 5y ago
Meh, a sponsored article of Klarna and Swedish state. They'll succeed once Sillicon Valley will call itself "the Stockholm of California".
- zibzab 5y ago
  To be fair, klarna was a tiny stockholm startup that is now beating SV giants PayPal and stripe in many EU counties. There are also some big fintech startups around Klarna that seem to do very well. So I don't see any problems with their involvement with the article.
  - brabel 5y ago
    A competitor of Paypal would've been iZettle (from Stockholm), but Paypal bought them!
  - giorgioz 5y ago
    I don't think that Klarna's direct competitor of Paypal or Stripe. Maybe AfterPay and Shopify are more direct competitors. I also don't think Klarna is doing better than Stripe.
EdSchouten 5y ago
I thought Eindhoven, the Netherlands was the Silicon Valley of Europe. After all, ASML is based there.
- durnygbur 5y ago
  I hate to dissapoint you but PR of every country is pushing hard the "X is the Silicon Valley of Y". While setting the contributions on employment contracts at >40% and allowing for the real estate market bubble...
- danieldk 5y ago
  And NXP started in Eindhoven (spin-off of Philips) and still has a large presence: https://www.nxp.com/company/about-nxp/worldwide-locations/netherlands:NETHERLANDS https://www.nxp.com/company/about-nxp/worldwide-locations/ne...
- SJSque 5y ago
  Well, technically ASML is based (as in, headquartered) in Veldhoven, but that's part of the same conurbation really. Meanwhile, check out the 235 (at last count) technology companies located on the High Tech Campus in Eindhoven (where NXP is headquartered): https://hightechcampus.com/companies https://hightechcampus.com/companies
- wila 5y ago
  We've got the Silicon part covered, but no Valley here :)
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    No, that would require mountains around it.
    - wila 5y ago
      The Dutch mountains... :) We have a few hills, but not in this area.
- 5y ago
eloisant 5y ago
There are a lot of cool tech companies in Sweden but I wouldn't call that the Silicon Valley of Europe. There are also a lot of tech companies in Dublin, London, Berlin, Paris... I don't think any one of those can claim the title of "Silicon Valley of Europe" as in "the place to be for tech companies". I'd say most of the US Big Tech have their European HQ in Dublin. And most European startups/tech companies have their HQ in London. That might change with brexit but so far it's what I've seen.
- durnygbur 5y ago
  Dublin is a mere presence used to funnel out due taxes and contributions. Some real tech stuff might be happening in London though.
  - syrgian 5y ago
    https://www.siliconrepublic.com/people/developers-programmers-jobs-in-dublin https://www.siliconrepublic.com/people/developers-programmer... According to this, 9% of the population in Dublin are software developers. By comparison, London seems to be at 7.7% according to the same metric.
    - pzo 5y ago
      Dublin is a small city - I was surprised myself for the first time when I was there I expected it to big european capital. In fact population of Dublin is ~500k and they even market it as "Dublin Town". From the city center most of places are available within 5km radius.
      - kqr 5y ago
        And to clarify, the size of Dublin is relevant because even if smaller cities have a relatively lower mean proportion of software developers, the law of small (!) numbers tells us the variance in the proportion of software developers will be larger, meaning some smaller cities will have the lowest fraction of software developers, and others (perhaps like Dublin) will have the greatest fraction -- just by chance, not due to underlying causal mechanisms.
holoduke 5y ago
I am from Europe. But I don't think sweden is the new silicon valley. Maybe from the perspective of extreme costs. Berlin, Amsterdam, Dublin and even London are much bigger in terms of startups, scaleups. The world is more than Klarna and Spotify.
- cpach 5y ago
  Of course, there are lots of cities who wants to be the Silicon Valley of Europe. I wonder if there are any objective facts one could compare in order to make the discussion a little more fact-based. Amount of invested venture capital per capita…? Or maybe there are better measures.
  - cucumb3rrelish 5y ago
    https://content.sifted.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/11112243/1-1.png https://content.sifted.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/1111224... The UK and Germany appear to have the most active venture capital out of all European countries, significantly more so than Sweden.
    - cpach 5y ago
      Would love to some amounts invested as well. (Can’t dig for that now, maybe later…)
- m1111 5y ago
  > even London Why _even_? Fairly sure London has more startups than the previous 3 mentioned cities combined.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > Why _even_? Fairly sure London has more startups than the previous 3 mentioned cities combined. Leaving out Germany for the moment, Britain (actually even England alone, I think) also has a much larger population than Sweden, the Netherlands and Ireland combined, so of course it may have more startups total. As for Berlin, I'm guessing "talent" and opportunities are more dispersed in Germany than in Britain: Does it really have much of a "Silicon Valley of <<X>>" besides London? As I understand it, Germany has Hamburg, Munich, perhaps Frankfurt and I don't know what more (the greater Stuttgart region, from at least CureVac in Tübingen to SAP in Walldorf; maybe Mainz-Darmstadt, with BionTech and Software AG?). Also, Britain has screwed itself over royally with Brexit, which makes it hugely less attractive and competitive.
cpach 5y ago
Seems to be lots of startups launching in Sweden these days! If anyone wants to keep up with Swedish startup news I can warmly recommend Martin Weigert’s formidable news letter, Swedish Tech Weekly. https://swedishtechweekly.com/ https://swedishtechweekly.com/
Smudgya 5y ago
Evne Apple has discovered this. Of course they still implement at-will employment and they pretty much exclusively hire people from their Scientology contracting partner - I am surprised no one in Sweden has caught on to them.
rockbruno 5y ago
I might have heard this statement from every single country in the planet by now.
- polinosimo 5y ago
  Agree. The whole world is becoming the new Silicon Valley. :')
  - lovemenot 5y ago
    Silicon Valley is the old Shenzhen? (Words from the future). There's something about how they get things done there that is truly novel and not yet at full scale.
- cr1pablo 5y ago
  Agree. Here in Spain we have 4 european Silicon Valley. I have heard this for Malaga, Barcelona, Madrid and Valencia.
  - bogomipz 5y ago
    Interesting. I knew Barcelona and Madrid but I was surprised to see Malaga and Valencia. What start ups based in those two? Both of those seem like really nice areas to be based out of.
lordnacho 5y ago
It's not just that you have a welfare state to fall back on, it's also that a lot of ordinary jobs are quite boring. There's a huge government sector where you can play with red tape, and then there's the well-known corporations where you can do the same. Or you can scrape by in a small business like a restaurant or hairdresser. So why not give it a go? As for the Silicon Valley, the VCs seem to be concentrated in London AFAICT.
toxik 5y ago
Sorry, the categories are all mixed up. SV is a region in the SF Bay Area. Sweden is a country. Nice PR piece though.
aliswe 5y ago
I thought the SV of Europe was generally thought to be Berlin?
- axelroze 5y ago
  Only Berliners think that so as to have a reason to consider themselves better than the obviously all-in-all superior Munich ;) It is definitely London as far as new startups go and Eindhoven as far as literal silicon is in question. But none are even close to the original as far as the culture goes.
- tester34 5y ago
  I always thought about London / Zurich of tech cities of EU
- durnygbur 5y ago
  Berlin is SV without the sun, with grumpy people, and with entry level salaries.
mongol 5y ago
In February of 2000, Newsweek ran a cover stating: "Stockholm: Hot IPOs and Cool Clubs in Europe's Internet Capital". This was at the apex of the dot-com boom. Swedish economy was boosted by the success of Ericsson and the explosion of mobile phone connectivity around the world. One of the articles from that issue is here: https://www.newsweek.com/shining-stockholm-162345 https://www.newsweek.com/shining-stockholm-162345 Quote: "How did Sweden get so young, hot--and competitive? Deep technological roots and some recent bright blossoms have helped. Communication has long been crucial in Sweden, with a small population (today 8.9 million people, barely more than Greater London) spread across an often-inhospitable land mass a little larger than California. Swedes loved the telephone when it was new (Stockholm in 1900 had more phones than London or Berlin), and they took to wireless phones and the Internet with equal enthusiasm. Education and a commercial mind-set are factors too. Because of their relative isolation, Swedes look abroad for ideas and opportunities. For generations they have learned English, now the language of the Internet--and they've done so in a lavishly funded state education system that also places a high value on science and engineering." This is the same period as the "staff PC" programs were running, where you got tax-deductions for personal computers as is stated in the reuters article (".. government policy to put a computer in every home"). So while these seeds were sown here, they had not yet born fruit to cause the the Newsweek cover of that era. If Sweden is the Silicon Valley of Europe, which I personally doubt, it is at least something that has been in the making for 40 years or more.
imartin2k 5y ago
My personal list of causes for why Sweden indeed is doing incredibly good when it comes to tech these days: - Early broadband investments and subsidized PCs (as stated in the article). - Good e-government and digital infrastructure, which means little bureaucracy for starting and running a company, but also availability of out of the box tools to build complex products. Example is bankID, an ubiquitous digital ID solution which startups can us for instant customer identification that lives up to all legal requirements. - Early success in building global tech brands (Skype, Spotify, even Pirate Bay), which laid the foundation for a self-reinforcing ecosystem (self image, newly minted angel investors, media attention etc.) - Generally a positive attitude towards tech among the population. Unlike in large parts of continental Europe, being a pessimists/naysayer about new things doesn't give you a lot of status in large parts of Swedish society. Being an early-adopter does. - Hands off regulation. Not necessarily by virtue, but rather as an accidental side effect of Swedish (political) and administrative culture. Sweden is culturally and politically pretty bad at preparing for negative outcomes. "We have been naive" and "we didn't see it coming" are frequently heard statements from politicians about negative societal developments. For the tech sector, this is great, since startups can try new things without too much early interference by the state or bureaucrats (example: Unlike in many/if not most other European countries, rental e-scooters have been introduced with almost no regulation. Regulation is only now happening, after issues became apparent).
- jeofken 5y ago
  > "We have been naive" and "we didn't see it coming" For context it should be noted that these two famous quotes by the prime minister and staff were not in the context of software or business, but regarding violent crime and the demographic shift away from natives ethnic homogeneity
  - imartin2k 5y ago
    It was also used during the pandemic.
  - zibzab 5y ago
    That was said during the pandemic. I feel you are pushing a narrative here.
tohmasu 5y ago
In case anyone wants to move to Sweden to start a business: https://www.verksamt.se/en/web/international https://www.verksamt.se/en/web/international
cblconfederate 5y ago
So now sweden is spying on me?
giorgioz 5y ago
If I had a dime for every time someone wrote "X is the new Silicon Valley"... Silicon Valley is a place of innovation therefore by saying a place is Silicon Valley 2 you are automatically aknowledging that the new place is a sequel and not an innovation. Stop trying to copy innovation, to be innovative you have to "Sing your own special song". The team of Skype and Kazaa did incredible work, they did P2P early and still P2P has not really been used widely in mainstream software nowadays. It's likely in 5 years no-one will even remember Klarna, don't compare it to Skype or Spotify. Last weeks Square bought Afterpay. This article is clearly just a marketing stunt to hype Klarna IPO. I despise both Afterpay and Klarna. They allow people to buy things they don't need. This is just US credit card debt in a new package 2.0 Don't waste money on brand expensive clothes especially if you can't pay them all at once. I have been wearing the same model running shoes from Decathlon that cost 20$ for the past 6 years (buying a new one where the previous one tears down).
- rjzzleep 5y ago
  These words don't really mean anything. Hamburg is the next Silicon Valley, depending on which useless Hamburg startup you ask. Berlin as well. London has the Silicon Roundabout. Louisiana and Texas the Silicon Bayou. Just google "next silicon site:country" and you'll find some hits.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- Chris2048 5y ago
  > I have been wearing the same model running shoes from Decathlon that cost 20$ for the past 6 years what? Do you run in them?
  - kaesar14 5y ago
    Either this person does not run or they have serious foot issues.
    - 5y ago
Jiocus 5y ago
If you can access Swedish national television (SVT) you can also see the 2021 documentary IT-bubblan som aldrig sprack (en: The IT-bubble that never burst). [SVTPlay]: https://www.svtplay.se/video/30165160/it-bubblan-som-aldrig-sprack https://www.svtplay.se/video/30165160/it-bubblan-som-aldrig-...
dustymcp 5y ago
Stockholm is also very close to copenhagen and partnerships have formed across countries for many successes, some that comes to mind are skype and unity, but we danes for sure was very jealous of their great internet back in the day when this was reformed :)
JensRantil 5y ago
Funny the article didn't mention the recent Tink acquisition by Visa[1] when talking about Fintech. A 1.8 billion Euros acquisition is a pretty big thing. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/24/visa-to-acquire-open-banking-platform-tink-for-more-than-2-billion/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/24/visa-to-acquire-open-banki... Full disclosure: My employer is Tink.
keewee7 5y ago
Why is a sponsored article by Klarna and the Swedish government on the HN frontpage?
wrnr 5y ago
A recruiter contacted me to work as a freelander in the Stockholm office of Klarna, where I needed to work the first two months onsite. Travel and accomodation had to be payed by me upfront with just a small raise in the rate because expense reports are too much work for this fintech company.
aearm 5y ago
The article has what we called made up metrics just to push Sweden's reputation. Sweden has a long way to go to get even close to other EU tech hubs. in contrast, the state regulations and the mainstream culture in Sweden have limited the openness to new ideas and sidelined foreign founders which are considered the DNA of Silicon Valley.
niggerdude 5y ago
uhh maybe because they're not lazy fucking retards. where'd you think it was going to be? greece? sicily?
zsmi 5y ago
That's good news. I am glad Reuters was officially able to declare Sweden as the next Silicon Valley thus ending the tyranny of "X is the next Silicon Valley" articles and news segments. Congratulations Sweden, and really, all of us.
- hiddencache 5y ago
  Thanks for making me laugh out loud, appreciated
jacquesm 5y ago
I have a pretty good view of the European investment / M&A / Start-up world and while Sweden is definitely a player I think that calling any European country the 'Silicon Valley of Europe' is based on a signal that is well below the noise floor. If someone truly believes this it could mean several things: they have an agenda, they have no idea of what is going on elsewhere in Europe and/or they have never been to Silicon Valley.
- aerosmile 5y ago
  This 100 times. It seems that people confuse the term "Silicon Valley of X" with "overindexing in tech relative to expectations." I have worked in tech in NY, SF Bay Area, and LA. While all three geos were perfectly suitable for launching and running a startup, nothing comes even close to the experience of working in the SF Bay Area. There are many facets to this, but here's a very simple litmus test: take a meeting with a local VC and benchmark their behavior and expectations.
  - long_time_gone 5y ago
    This is the cynical view. In the generous view, other governments are studying the environment that led to the creation/success of Silicon Valley in the first place. Most often, they use Michael Porters framework on "Clusters" to analyze [0] how and why certain geographies have advantages in certain industries. The focus is on marshaling public infrastructure/incentives, private investment, and skills/education to create critical mass in a certain field. Indeed, this article mentions the impact of multiple government programs. Your tech example comparing NY/LA to SF is the direct inverse of comparing the film industry in LA to SF, or finance in NY to SF. Those cities have their own clusters and vastly outperform in those industries. NY and SF also have good universities minting new engineers and lots of wealthy individuals to invest in those people. They would be silly not to attempt and foster a "new" Silicon Valley based on their specific strengths (look at biotech in Boston for the perfect example). [0] https://hbr.org/1998/11/clusters-and-the-new-economics-of-competition https://hbr.org/1998/11/clusters-and-the-new-economics-of-co...
    - 5y ago
netjiro 5y ago
Let's get some data, Sweden, 2020 SEK/y: Approximated historic exchange rates: SEK / euro-dollar-franc: ca 0.1 - 0.12 Gross salary income at 90th percentile: 567 600 Actual sales cost for a small-medium company: 1 084 050 Included: VAT ca 25%, social fees ca 31%, other misc ca 10% Net income after taxes: 420 492 So, about 61% is lost in taxes from gross billing to net income after tax, for someone earning at 90th percentile. "The world's highest taxes" is misleading. It really depends on your family situation and lifestyle: For those 61% you get quite a lot when the system works. Free health care, education, child care, work-life balance, freedom, nature, social life, etc. I do not recommend living in Sweden without a good private medical insurance. The public health care is top notch when it works, but without private insurance odds are it will not work well in your case. If you are willing to put in 10-15MSEK for a house/apartment you can choose areas with very good schools, but it will take you many years to find a decent rental below 30k/m. Society is generally very nice, open, liberal, clean. Nature is wonderful. 6 month winter is made for working, 4 month summer is made for swimming. I generally expect to get ca 1500h efficient time on target from the people I had in Sweden, and I expect to pay around 1kSEK/h effective. I used to hire people and place them in Sweden. I have sadly not done that for several years. Slowness of immigration, severe lack of rental housing, etc. A good gemeinde+canton in Switzerland is much faster and smoother. * sources: statistics office, tax office: SCB, SKV
- przemub 5y ago
  I am curious about what you consider a good gemeinde+canton. I've been thinking about moving to Switzerland but coming from a much more unitary country I am not used to finding a particular gemeinde this improtant!
  - netjiro 5y ago
    From my limited experience: If the gemeinde wants more of the kind of professional skills you bring they will process the paperwork within a week. There is a huge difference between cantons and gemeindes. There are tons of information online, but I cannot recommend without knowing, a lot, about what you are looking for.
- 5y ago
jbverschoor 5y ago
Did it?
tibiahurried 5y ago
uhm I am not sure about Sweden being the 'Silicon Valley of Europe' As european, if had to look for a tech job in Europe, I would consider: - London - Amsterdam - Berlin
julienb_sea 5y ago
This article completely ignores that Sweden has a competitive corporate tax rate, one of the best in developed European nations. This creates a strong environment for startup growth. Payroll & income taxes make it difficult to retain talent in the country, but that can be offset by the welfare and lifestyle benefits. Source: https://taxfoundation.org/sweden-competitive-spite-high-tax-burden/ https://taxfoundation.org/sweden-competitive-spite-high-tax-...
- guerrilla 5y ago
  and a capital gains tax less than that of France and not much higher than the UK's.
TazeTSchnitzel 5y ago
Swedish taxes are high for individuals, but the system is regressive. Sweden has abolished all kinds of wealth tax and only has three income tax bands. It is a great place to live if you are rich.
- hogFeast 5y ago
  Yes, I wondered if anyone was going to point that out. The lowest rate of personal income tax is relatively high, extremely low income tax threshold, sales tax is 25%. Compare this to the US where close to a majority of the population doesn't even pay income tax, it is quite different. I don't think either system is better than the other. But talk to someone on $60k in the US and ask whether they want to pay 53% over the 22% they pay today. You get more public services in Sweden but these services are fully-funded by your tax revenue, and there is very little redistribution.
vnorilo 5y ago
Sweden has oodles of talent and great institutions, but the missing ingredient, much like with the rest of us Europeans, is the abundant venture capital that made SV.
anonAndOn 5y ago
Funny story: Years ago I (an American) was in Stockholm having a picnic lunch in a park with a couple of Canadian colleagues. As we were eating and talking a (presumably) local man sitting nearby overheard us and started throwing coins at us one by one. When asked what he was doing, he started yelling at us in pretty good English "you stupid ___king Americans need to get the ___k out of Sweden". He went on in some detail about how arrogant Americans are (I generally agree) and meddlesome our military is (also true). Meanwhile, my colleagues were aghast and kept protesting "but we're Canadian, eh!" That's when I learned how much (some?) Canadians hate being called Americans. These articles never seem to discuss xenophobia and how it can't be so overt if you want it to be the SV of X.
- asdff 5y ago
  There are racists everywhere.
  - INTPenis 5y ago
    That was most likely what we here in Sweden call an "a-lagare", in other words an alcoholic.
    - anonAndOn 5y ago
      That was my impression, as well.
- screye 5y ago
  It is fairly common for the internet to ignore the kind of alienation felt by immigrants in an (intentional or accidental) ethno-state. We hear more about racism in the US, UK and similarly 'diverse' countries because there are more interactions that enable that. We hear of religious tensions in India and France because both countries have enough diversity for discussion/conflict to be a possibility. In ethnically homogeneous countries, you get drowned out before you even realize it. The part that often gets ignored, is that it has very little to do with the human development of said country. Scandinavia and East Asia have the same or even greater propensity for racism as the common offenders. They just don't have enough interactions for it to get surfaced.
rexreed 5y ago
Not that many decades ago, we were referring to cities as being the next "Detroit of X". Will we be cringing a few decades from now to similar tropes regarding Silicon Valley? Don't be the next Silicon Valley of anything. Be the first X of your industry and help encourage your local ecosystem to support that industry and you'll forge a real path to the future.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kalium-xyz 5y ago
I’ve heard that phrase said with every other capital city in europe
advael 5y ago
I like how the article goes into detail about how the social safety net and investment in putting computers in every home provided by Sweden may have fostered a situation where both people are likely to create startups and those startups are pretty likely to survive at least three years and decently likely to reach $1B evaluation. It's strange to me that this is followed up by a section where claims that this situation is somehow made precarious by higher tax rates are basically quoted without any supporting evidence or examination. Sure, the prior bit didn't go cite any studies or anything, but they at least speculate about the causal link and list some outcomes that the writer seems to believe are associated with those causal factors. No such thing is even explained for the effect of a high tax rate, and I would have liked to see a little more detail about that claim I've heard both social safety nets and low taxes, which would seem to be at odds, cited by armchair economists as things that are "good for business", so it's odd to see one examined and the other merely mentioned
neonate 5y ago
https://archive.is/ThdBX https://archive.is/ThdBX
mariojv 5y ago
How common is it for European companies to hire developers living in other EU countries to work remotely or for a local office? I'm not planning on leaving my current company or country soon, but Spain seems like a nice backup plan should things go south in the US. Unfortunately, their economy doesn't seem great. Assume knowledge of English, Spanish, and a willingness and ability to learn the language of the hiring company. Is this a pipe dream? It seems like the ability to hire across the Schengen zone would be a great advantage to European tech companies.
- oezi 5y ago
  Without a local legal entity it is not possible for a company to hire you. (sadly)
somewhereoutth 5y ago
Requirements: 1. Permissive environment 2. Concentration of talent 3. River of money SV certainly had/has them, Sweden did/would need them too.
musicale 5y ago
My sympathies, Sweden.

227 points by levmiseri 5y ago

> Stockholm has become such rich soil for startups, birthing and incubating the likes of Spotify, Skype and Klarna, even though it has some of the highest tax rates in the world. Didn't Skype come from Estonia not Sweden? Edit: Scrap that I looked it up, Estonian, Swedish and Danish founders.

eloisant 5y ago
As I remember Skype was a Luxembourg company with effective HQ in London, and developers in Estonia.
- kalleboo 5y ago
  Founded by a Swede and a Dane who were at the time living in Amsterdam

null_object 5y ago

The article praises the Welfare State as the major stimulus for the startup environment, but then mentions that companies intend to leave Sweden... because of the high tax rate? It's an interesting paradox and highlights the way that VCs want to suck as much value out of an economy as they possibly can, without the willingness to contribute back to it proportionately.

durnygbur 5y ago
The businesses aren't any more ethical in welfare states. Welfare states set the financial burden on individuals - the contributions on employment contracts, dividend and capital gains taxes there are obnoxiously enourmous. An individual there basically gets a job to take a mortgage and that's it regarding life aspirations.
- fsloth 5y ago
  "An individual there basically gets a job to take a mortgage and that's it regarding life aspirations." Doesn't that describe most if not all economies that have middle class? Private mortgage was considered a great way to increase national wealth in "rich" post-WW2 economies. And so it became part of "the expected economic life path of the middle-class employee". Most people who are employed work to satisfy basic economic needs: 1. house 2. food 3. health and after that 4. leisure. Some even turn to 5. investment at some point. So I'm not sure what you are trying to say? Maybe expand/rephraze it a little bit?
- Milner08 5y ago
  Found the American... You're kidding yourself if you think that's it for life aspirations. Or if you think the taxes are the end of the world. I am sure most people in 'welfare states' would agree that they would rather that than the American system.
  - durnygbur 5y ago
    I'm not American, barely ever been in America even...
- cycomanic 5y ago
  You base your assertion on what evidence? Do you know what the capital gains tax is in Sweden? I encourage you to look up the ISK accounts. Also regarding getting a job to take a mortgage for life aspirations, the nordic countries have actually much more social mobility than most other countries in the world.
  - durnygbur 5y ago
    Both dividend and capital gains taxes in Sweden are 30%.
    - occz 5y ago
      ISKs (Investeringssparkonto, Investment savings account) are taxed at a flat amount of the account value per year, replacing capital gains taxes. In 2021, it will be 0,375%.
galfarragem 5y ago
The Welfare State may help startups to born but may help them to fade also. Few startups flourish in Europe. So many seeds, so few flowers.
- theelous3 5y ago
  Few startups flourish anywhere. Or are you saying that all things being equal, a startup in europe has a lower chance of succeeding long term than in the us? Any data to back this claim?
  - lmm 5y ago
    There's a distinct lack of mega-successes coming out of Europe.
    - karl-j 5y ago
      From the article the difference doesn’t seem that huge: Stockholm - 0.8 unicorns per 100,000 Silicon Valley - 1.4 unicorns per 100,000
      - lovemenot 5y ago
        Unicorn is just a threshold. Of those in both regions that crossed it, how many went through the next, then the next order of magnitude?
      - cinntaile 5y ago
        That's almost double in SV, that's pretty huge.
        theelous3 5y ago
        Given the differences in available capital and labour forces, reads more like stockholm is performing like an order of magnitude better. I'd also be interested in seeing long term outcomes. I'd wager stockholms is stronger.
alkonaut 5y ago
Corporate tax rates are the same as other countries in Western Europe, and lower than the US. Income taxes and payroll taxes are (significantly) higher though. Companies don’t need to leave the country but may want to hire top talent elsewhere if they need to keep taxes low. For me as a Swede, keeping as little as half of my gross pay isn’t a big issue since I’m not required to pay for my kids higher education (or any education for that matter), nor do I need to save up a lot for retirement or future illness. But I can understand someone who wants to go to Sweden for a 5 year stint and needs to aggregate as much as possible because their kids will go to expensive schools etc. Moving to a high-tax high social security labor market can seem like a one way street in that regard.
- Strum355 5y ago
  > Corporate tax rates are the same as other countries in Western Europe Except for Ireland with its 12.5%
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - hogFeast 5y ago
    "12.5%"...there is relatively little evidence that tech companies are paying anything close to this rate (yes, after the loopholes were closed...still plenty of loopholes left).
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    Makes you feel the solution to the Brexit-induced problem with the Northern Ireland border is to kick Ireland out (if they don't shape up ASAP).
    - fennecfoxen 5y ago
      Why stop there? Kick out Poland and Belarus for being undemocratic, kick out the rest of Eastern Europe for being homophobic, and then kick out Greece and Italy for the unsustainable deficits — maybe Spain and Portugal, by that point, too.
wutwutwutwut 5y ago
> VCs Same applies to most companies, right?
- csomar 5y ago
  > Same applies to most companies, right? Same applies to most people (and animals too).
  - amelius 5y ago
    Civilization would never have happened if it depended only on "most people" or animals. Greedy VCs/companies don't deserve to reap the benefits of civilization.
csomar 5y ago
> It's an interesting paradox and highlights the way that VCs want to suck as much value out of an economy as they possibly can, without the willingness to contribute back to it proportionately. Did you just define arbitrage?

durnygbur 5y ago

Meh, a sponsored article of Klarna and Swedish state. They'll succeed once Sillicon Valley will call itself "the Stockholm of California".

zibzab 5y ago
To be fair, klarna was a tiny stockholm startup that is now beating SV giants PayPal and stripe in many EU counties. There are also some big fintech startups around Klarna that seem to do very well. So I don't see any problems with their involvement with the article.
- brabel 5y ago
  A competitor of Paypal would've been iZettle (from Stockholm), but Paypal bought them!
- giorgioz 5y ago
  I don't think that Klarna's direct competitor of Paypal or Stripe. Maybe AfterPay and Shopify are more direct competitors. I also don't think Klarna is doing better than Stripe.

EdSchouten 5y ago

I thought Eindhoven, the Netherlands was the Silicon Valley of Europe. After all, ASML is based there.

durnygbur 5y ago
I hate to dissapoint you but PR of every country is pushing hard the "X is the Silicon Valley of Y". While setting the contributions on employment contracts at >40% and allowing for the real estate market bubble...
danieldk 5y ago
And NXP started in Eindhoven (spin-off of Philips) and still has a large presence: https://www.nxp.com/company/about-nxp/worldwide-locations/netherlands:NETHERLANDS https://www.nxp.com/company/about-nxp/worldwide-locations/ne...
SJSque 5y ago
Well, technically ASML is based (as in, headquartered) in Veldhoven, but that's part of the same conurbation really. Meanwhile, check out the 235 (at last count) technology companies located on the High Tech Campus in Eindhoven (where NXP is headquartered): https://hightechcampus.com/companies https://hightechcampus.com/companies
wila 5y ago
We've got the Silicon part covered, but no Valley here :)
- CRConrad 5y ago
  No, that would require mountains around it.
  - wila 5y ago
    The Dutch mountains... :) We have a few hills, but not in this area.
5y ago

eloisant 5y ago

There are a lot of cool tech companies in Sweden but I wouldn't call that the Silicon Valley of Europe. There are also a lot of tech companies in Dublin, London, Berlin, Paris... I don't think any one of those can claim the title of "Silicon Valley of Europe" as in "the place to be for tech companies". I'd say most of the US Big Tech have their European HQ in Dublin. And most European startups/tech companies have their HQ in London. That might change with brexit but so far it's what I've seen.

durnygbur 5y ago
Dublin is a mere presence used to funnel out due taxes and contributions. Some real tech stuff might be happening in London though.
- syrgian 5y ago
  https://www.siliconrepublic.com/people/developers-programmers-jobs-in-dublin https://www.siliconrepublic.com/people/developers-programmer... According to this, 9% of the population in Dublin are software developers. By comparison, London seems to be at 7.7% according to the same metric.
  - pzo 5y ago
    Dublin is a small city - I was surprised myself for the first time when I was there I expected it to big european capital. In fact population of Dublin is ~500k and they even market it as "Dublin Town". From the city center most of places are available within 5km radius.
    - kqr 5y ago
      And to clarify, the size of Dublin is relevant because even if smaller cities have a relatively lower mean proportion of software developers, the law of small (!) numbers tells us the variance in the proportion of software developers will be larger, meaning some smaller cities will have the lowest fraction of software developers, and others (perhaps like Dublin) will have the greatest fraction -- just by chance, not due to underlying causal mechanisms.

holoduke 5y ago

I am from Europe. But I don't think sweden is the new silicon valley. Maybe from the perspective of extreme costs. Berlin, Amsterdam, Dublin and even London are much bigger in terms of startups, scaleups. The world is more than Klarna and Spotify.

cpach 5y ago
Of course, there are lots of cities who wants to be the Silicon Valley of Europe. I wonder if there are any objective facts one could compare in order to make the discussion a little more fact-based. Amount of invested venture capital per capita…? Or maybe there are better measures.
- cucumb3rrelish 5y ago
  https://content.sifted.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/11112243/1-1.png https://content.sifted.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/1111224... The UK and Germany appear to have the most active venture capital out of all European countries, significantly more so than Sweden.
  - cpach 5y ago
    Would love to some amounts invested as well. (Can’t dig for that now, maybe later…)
m1111 5y ago
> even London Why _even_? Fairly sure London has more startups than the previous 3 mentioned cities combined.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > Why _even_? Fairly sure London has more startups than the previous 3 mentioned cities combined. Leaving out Germany for the moment, Britain (actually even England alone, I think) also has a much larger population than Sweden, the Netherlands and Ireland combined, so of course it may have more startups total. As for Berlin, I'm guessing "talent" and opportunities are more dispersed in Germany than in Britain: Does it really have much of a "Silicon Valley of <<X>>" besides London? As I understand it, Germany has Hamburg, Munich, perhaps Frankfurt and I don't know what more (the greater Stuttgart region, from at least CureVac in Tübingen to SAP in Walldorf; maybe Mainz-Darmstadt, with BionTech and Software AG?). Also, Britain has screwed itself over royally with Brexit, which makes it hugely less attractive and competitive.

cpach 5y ago

Seems to be lots of startups launching in Sweden these days! If anyone wants to keep up with Swedish startup news I can warmly recommend Martin Weigert’s formidable news letter, Swedish Tech Weekly. https://swedishtechweekly.com/ https://swedishtechweekly.com/

Smudgya 5y ago

Evne Apple has discovered this. Of course they still implement at-will employment and they pretty much exclusively hire people from their Scientology contracting partner - I am surprised no one in Sweden has caught on to them.

rockbruno 5y ago

I might have heard this statement from every single country in the planet by now.

polinosimo 5y ago
Agree. The whole world is becoming the new Silicon Valley. :')
- lovemenot 5y ago
  Silicon Valley is the old Shenzhen? (Words from the future). There's something about how they get things done there that is truly novel and not yet at full scale.
cr1pablo 5y ago
Agree. Here in Spain we have 4 european Silicon Valley. I have heard this for Malaga, Barcelona, Madrid and Valencia.
- bogomipz 5y ago
  Interesting. I knew Barcelona and Madrid but I was surprised to see Malaga and Valencia. What start ups based in those two? Both of those seem like really nice areas to be based out of.

lordnacho 5y ago

It's not just that you have a welfare state to fall back on, it's also that a lot of ordinary jobs are quite boring. There's a huge government sector where you can play with red tape, and then there's the well-known corporations where you can do the same. Or you can scrape by in a small business like a restaurant or hairdresser. So why not give it a go? As for the Silicon Valley, the VCs seem to be concentrated in London AFAICT.

toxik 5y ago

Sorry, the categories are all mixed up. SV is a region in the SF Bay Area. Sweden is a country. Nice PR piece though.

aliswe 5y ago

I thought the SV of Europe was generally thought to be Berlin?

axelroze 5y ago
Only Berliners think that so as to have a reason to consider themselves better than the obviously all-in-all superior Munich ;) It is definitely London as far as new startups go and Eindhoven as far as literal silicon is in question. But none are even close to the original as far as the culture goes.
tester34 5y ago
I always thought about London / Zurich of tech cities of EU
durnygbur 5y ago
Berlin is SV without the sun, with grumpy people, and with entry level salaries.

mongol 5y ago

In February of 2000, Newsweek ran a cover stating: "Stockholm: Hot IPOs and Cool Clubs in Europe's Internet Capital". This was at the apex of the dot-com boom. Swedish economy was boosted by the success of Ericsson and the explosion of mobile phone connectivity around the world. One of the articles from that issue is here: https://www.newsweek.com/shining-stockholm-162345 https://www.newsweek.com/shining-stockholm-162345 Quote: "How did Sweden get so young, hot--and competitive? Deep technological roots and some recent bright blossoms have helped. Communication has long been crucial in Sweden, with a small population (today 8.9 million people, barely more than Greater London) spread across an often-inhospitable land mass a little larger than California. Swedes loved the telephone when it was new (Stockholm in 1900 had more phones than London or Berlin), and they took to wireless phones and the Internet with equal enthusiasm. Education and a commercial mind-set are factors too. Because of their relative isolation, Swedes look abroad for ideas and opportunities. For generations they have learned English, now the language of the Internet--and they've done so in a lavishly funded state education system that also places a high value on science and engineering." This is the same period as the "staff PC" programs were running, where you got tax-deductions for personal computers as is stated in the reuters article (".. government policy to put a computer in every home"). So while these seeds were sown here, they had not yet born fruit to cause the the Newsweek cover of that era. If Sweden is the Silicon Valley of Europe, which I personally doubt, it is at least something that has been in the making for 40 years or more.

imartin2k 5y ago

My personal list of causes for why Sweden indeed is doing incredibly good when it comes to tech these days: - Early broadband investments and subsidized PCs (as stated in the article). - Good e-government and digital infrastructure, which means little bureaucracy for starting and running a company, but also availability of out of the box tools to build complex products. Example is bankID, an ubiquitous digital ID solution which startups can us for instant customer identification that lives up to all legal requirements. - Early success in building global tech brands (Skype, Spotify, even Pirate Bay), which laid the foundation for a self-reinforcing ecosystem (self image, newly minted angel investors, media attention etc.) - Generally a positive attitude towards tech among the population. Unlike in large parts of continental Europe, being a pessimists/naysayer about new things doesn't give you a lot of status in large parts of Swedish society. Being an early-adopter does. - Hands off regulation. Not necessarily by virtue, but rather as an accidental side effect of Swedish (political) and administrative culture. Sweden is culturally and politically pretty bad at preparing for negative outcomes. "We have been naive" and "we didn't see it coming" are frequently heard statements from politicians about negative societal developments. For the tech sector, this is great, since startups can try new things without too much early interference by the state or bureaucrats (example: Unlike in many/if not most other European countries, rental e-scooters have been introduced with almost no regulation. Regulation is only now happening, after issues became apparent).

jeofken 5y ago
> "We have been naive" and "we didn't see it coming" For context it should be noted that these two famous quotes by the prime minister and staff were not in the context of software or business, but regarding violent crime and the demographic shift away from natives ethnic homogeneity
- imartin2k 5y ago
  It was also used during the pandemic.
- zibzab 5y ago
  That was said during the pandemic. I feel you are pushing a narrative here.

tohmasu 5y ago

In case anyone wants to move to Sweden to start a business: https://www.verksamt.se/en/web/international https://www.verksamt.se/en/web/international

cblconfederate 5y ago

So now sweden is spying on me?

giorgioz 5y ago

If I had a dime for every time someone wrote "X is the new Silicon Valley"... Silicon Valley is a place of innovation therefore by saying a place is Silicon Valley 2 you are automatically aknowledging that the new place is a sequel and not an innovation. Stop trying to copy innovation, to be innovative you have to "Sing your own special song". The team of Skype and Kazaa did incredible work, they did P2P early and still P2P has not really been used widely in mainstream software nowadays. It's likely in 5 years no-one will even remember Klarna, don't compare it to Skype or Spotify. Last weeks Square bought Afterpay. This article is clearly just a marketing stunt to hype Klarna IPO. I despise both Afterpay and Klarna. They allow people to buy things they don't need. This is just US credit card debt in a new package 2.0 Don't waste money on brand expensive clothes especially if you can't pay them all at once. I have been wearing the same model running shoes from Decathlon that cost 20$ for the past 6 years (buying a new one where the previous one tears down).

rjzzleep 5y ago
These words don't really mean anything. Hamburg is the next Silicon Valley, depending on which useless Hamburg startup you ask. Berlin as well. London has the Silicon Roundabout. Louisiana and Texas the Silicon Bayou. Just google "next silicon site:country" and you'll find some hits.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Chris2048 5y ago
> I have been wearing the same model running shoes from Decathlon that cost 20$ for the past 6 years what? Do you run in them?
- kaesar14 5y ago
  Either this person does not run or they have serious foot issues.
  - 5y ago

Jiocus 5y ago

If you can access Swedish national television (SVT) you can also see the 2021 documentary IT-bubblan som aldrig sprack (en: The IT-bubble that never burst). [SVTPlay]: https://www.svtplay.se/video/30165160/it-bubblan-som-aldrig-sprack https://www.svtplay.se/video/30165160/it-bubblan-som-aldrig-...

dustymcp 5y ago

Stockholm is also very close to copenhagen and partnerships have formed across countries for many successes, some that comes to mind are skype and unity, but we danes for sure was very jealous of their great internet back in the day when this was reformed :)

JensRantil 5y ago

Funny the article didn't mention the recent Tink acquisition by Visa[1] when talking about Fintech. A 1.8 billion Euros acquisition is a pretty big thing. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/24/visa-to-acquire-open-banking-platform-tink-for-more-than-2-billion/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/24/visa-to-acquire-open-banki... Full disclosure: My employer is Tink.

keewee7 5y ago

Why is a sponsored article by Klarna and the Swedish government on the HN frontpage?

wrnr 5y ago

A recruiter contacted me to work as a freelander in the Stockholm office of Klarna, where I needed to work the first two months onsite. Travel and accomodation had to be payed by me upfront with just a small raise in the rate because expense reports are too much work for this fintech company.

aearm 5y ago

The article has what we called made up metrics just to push Sweden's reputation. Sweden has a long way to go to get even close to other EU tech hubs. in contrast, the state regulations and the mainstream culture in Sweden have limited the openness to new ideas and sidelined foreign founders which are considered the DNA of Silicon Valley.

niggerdude 5y ago

uhh maybe because they're not lazy fucking retards. where'd you think it was going to be? greece? sicily?

zsmi 5y ago

That's good news. I am glad Reuters was officially able to declare Sweden as the next Silicon Valley thus ending the tyranny of "X is the next Silicon Valley" articles and news segments. Congratulations Sweden, and really, all of us.

hiddencache 5y ago
Thanks for making me laugh out loud, appreciated

jacquesm 5y ago

I have a pretty good view of the European investment / M&A / Start-up world and while Sweden is definitely a player I think that calling any European country the 'Silicon Valley of Europe' is based on a signal that is well below the noise floor. If someone truly believes this it could mean several things: they have an agenda, they have no idea of what is going on elsewhere in Europe and/or they have never been to Silicon Valley.

aerosmile 5y ago
This 100 times. It seems that people confuse the term "Silicon Valley of X" with "overindexing in tech relative to expectations." I have worked in tech in NY, SF Bay Area, and LA. While all three geos were perfectly suitable for launching and running a startup, nothing comes even close to the experience of working in the SF Bay Area. There are many facets to this, but here's a very simple litmus test: take a meeting with a local VC and benchmark their behavior and expectations.
- long_time_gone 5y ago
  This is the cynical view. In the generous view, other governments are studying the environment that led to the creation/success of Silicon Valley in the first place. Most often, they use Michael Porters framework on "Clusters" to analyze [0] how and why certain geographies have advantages in certain industries. The focus is on marshaling public infrastructure/incentives, private investment, and skills/education to create critical mass in a certain field. Indeed, this article mentions the impact of multiple government programs. Your tech example comparing NY/LA to SF is the direct inverse of comparing the film industry in LA to SF, or finance in NY to SF. Those cities have their own clusters and vastly outperform in those industries. NY and SF also have good universities minting new engineers and lots of wealthy individuals to invest in those people. They would be silly not to attempt and foster a "new" Silicon Valley based on their specific strengths (look at biotech in Boston for the perfect example). [0] https://hbr.org/1998/11/clusters-and-the-new-economics-of-competition https://hbr.org/1998/11/clusters-and-the-new-economics-of-co...
  - 5y ago

netjiro 5y ago

Let's get some data, Sweden, 2020 SEK/y: Approximated historic exchange rates: SEK / euro-dollar-franc: ca 0.1 - 0.12 Gross salary income at 90th percentile: 567 600 Actual sales cost for a small-medium company: 1 084 050 Included: VAT ca 25%, social fees ca 31%, other misc ca 10% Net income after taxes: 420 492 So, about 61% is lost in taxes from gross billing to net income after tax, for someone earning at 90th percentile. "The world's highest taxes" is misleading. It really depends on your family situation and lifestyle: For those 61% you get quite a lot when the system works. Free health care, education, child care, work-life balance, freedom, nature, social life, etc. I do not recommend living in Sweden without a good private medical insurance. The public health care is top notch when it works, but without private insurance odds are it will not work well in your case. If you are willing to put in 10-15MSEK for a house/apartment you can choose areas with very good schools, but it will take you many years to find a decent rental below 30k/m. Society is generally very nice, open, liberal, clean. Nature is wonderful. 6 month winter is made for working, 4 month summer is made for swimming. I generally expect to get ca 1500h efficient time on target from the people I had in Sweden, and I expect to pay around 1kSEK/h effective. I used to hire people and place them in Sweden. I have sadly not done that for several years. Slowness of immigration, severe lack of rental housing, etc. A good gemeinde+canton in Switzerland is much faster and smoother. * sources: statistics office, tax office: SCB, SKV

przemub 5y ago
I am curious about what you consider a good gemeinde+canton. I've been thinking about moving to Switzerland but coming from a much more unitary country I am not used to finding a particular gemeinde this improtant!
- netjiro 5y ago
  From my limited experience: If the gemeinde wants more of the kind of professional skills you bring they will process the paperwork within a week. There is a huge difference between cantons and gemeindes. There are tons of information online, but I cannot recommend without knowing, a lot, about what you are looking for.
5y ago

jbverschoor 5y ago

Did it?

tibiahurried 5y ago

uhm I am not sure about Sweden being the 'Silicon Valley of Europe' As european, if had to look for a tech job in Europe, I would consider: - London - Amsterdam - Berlin

julienb_sea 5y ago

This article completely ignores that Sweden has a competitive corporate tax rate, one of the best in developed European nations. This creates a strong environment for startup growth. Payroll & income taxes make it difficult to retain talent in the country, but that can be offset by the welfare and lifestyle benefits. Source: https://taxfoundation.org/sweden-competitive-spite-high-tax-burden/ https://taxfoundation.org/sweden-competitive-spite-high-tax-...

guerrilla 5y ago
and a capital gains tax less than that of France and not much higher than the UK's.

TazeTSchnitzel 5y ago

Swedish taxes are high for individuals, but the system is regressive. Sweden has abolished all kinds of wealth tax and only has three income tax bands. It is a great place to live if you are rich.

hogFeast 5y ago
Yes, I wondered if anyone was going to point that out. The lowest rate of personal income tax is relatively high, extremely low income tax threshold, sales tax is 25%. Compare this to the US where close to a majority of the population doesn't even pay income tax, it is quite different. I don't think either system is better than the other. But talk to someone on $60k in the US and ask whether they want to pay 53% over the 22% they pay today. You get more public services in Sweden but these services are fully-funded by your tax revenue, and there is very little redistribution.

vnorilo 5y ago

Sweden has oodles of talent and great institutions, but the missing ingredient, much like with the rest of us Europeans, is the abundant venture capital that made SV.

anonAndOn 5y ago

Funny story: Years ago I (an American) was in Stockholm having a picnic lunch in a park with a couple of Canadian colleagues. As we were eating and talking a (presumably) local man sitting nearby overheard us and started throwing coins at us one by one. When asked what he was doing, he started yelling at us in pretty good English "you stupid ___king Americans need to get the ___k out of Sweden". He went on in some detail about how arrogant Americans are (I generally agree) and meddlesome our military is (also true). Meanwhile, my colleagues were aghast and kept protesting "but we're Canadian, eh!" That's when I learned how much (some?) Canadians hate being called Americans. These articles never seem to discuss xenophobia and how it can't be so overt if you want it to be the SV of X.

asdff 5y ago
There are racists everywhere.
- INTPenis 5y ago
  That was most likely what we here in Sweden call an "a-lagare", in other words an alcoholic.
  - anonAndOn 5y ago
    That was my impression, as well.
screye 5y ago
It is fairly common for the internet to ignore the kind of alienation felt by immigrants in an (intentional or accidental) ethno-state. We hear more about racism in the US, UK and similarly 'diverse' countries because there are more interactions that enable that. We hear of religious tensions in India and France because both countries have enough diversity for discussion/conflict to be a possibility. In ethnically homogeneous countries, you get drowned out before you even realize it. The part that often gets ignored, is that it has very little to do with the human development of said country. Scandinavia and East Asia have the same or even greater propensity for racism as the common offenders. They just don't have enough interactions for it to get surfaced.

rexreed 5y ago

Not that many decades ago, we were referring to cities as being the next "Detroit of X". Will we be cringing a few decades from now to similar tropes regarding Silicon Valley? Don't be the next Silicon Valley of anything. Be the first X of your industry and help encourage your local ecosystem to support that industry and you'll forge a real path to the future.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

kalium-xyz 5y ago

I’ve heard that phrase said with every other capital city in europe

advael 5y ago

I like how the article goes into detail about how the social safety net and investment in putting computers in every home provided by Sweden may have fostered a situation where both people are likely to create startups and those startups are pretty likely to survive at least three years and decently likely to reach $1B evaluation. It's strange to me that this is followed up by a section where claims that this situation is somehow made precarious by higher tax rates are basically quoted without any supporting evidence or examination. Sure, the prior bit didn't go cite any studies or anything, but they at least speculate about the causal link and list some outcomes that the writer seems to believe are associated with those causal factors. No such thing is even explained for the effect of a high tax rate, and I would have liked to see a little more detail about that claim I've heard both social safety nets and low taxes, which would seem to be at odds, cited by armchair economists as things that are "good for business", so it's odd to see one examined and the other merely mentioned

neonate 5y ago

https://archive.is/ThdBX https://archive.is/ThdBX

mariojv 5y ago

How common is it for European companies to hire developers living in other EU countries to work remotely or for a local office? I'm not planning on leaving my current company or country soon, but Spain seems like a nice backup plan should things go south in the US. Unfortunately, their economy doesn't seem great. Assume knowledge of English, Spanish, and a willingness and ability to learn the language of the hiring company. Is this a pipe dream? It seems like the ability to hire across the Schengen zone would be a great advantage to European tech companies.

oezi 5y ago
Without a local legal entity it is not possible for a company to hire you. (sadly)

somewhereoutth 5y ago

Requirements: 1. Permissive environment 2. Concentration of talent 3. River of money SV certainly had/has them, Sweden did/would need them too.

musicale 5y ago

My sympathies, Sweden.