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Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

• jackwagon 15y ago
  "They found my coupons for Bed Bath & Beyond and used the discount, along with my Mastercard, to shop online." Are you kidding me? Seriously.
  • tonystubblebine 15y ago
    My home was burglarized once and among all the serious stuff that they took they also took: tortillas, salsa, ground beef, and cheddar cheese. I still can't believe that.
    • achivetta 15y ago
      A jar of coins and... pajamas.
      • 100k 15y ago
        My house was robbed in college. They also took a jar of coins. Heaviest $20 ever.
    • jackwagon 15y ago
      No seriously. Excellent stunt for getting out of a crazy credit card bill from Bed, Bath and Beyond. Didn't we see this movie before? What was it.. Fight Club?
      • wakeup 15y ago
        haha no shit
    • stevejalim 15y ago
      Yep, when I was burgled, alongside a MacBook, watch and my freakin' backups, which were on a separate drive on a nearby bookcase, they also took some bath soap and a bottle of dessert wine that my gf and I brought back from France specially. I hope they choked on the wine. That said, I also had they keys to brand new Audi on the kitchen counter (I used to be a car journalist and it was a press test car) and they completely missed them. So, I got off lightly, in some respects, even if the loss of backups is still something that pisses me off today. I've learned my mistake about backup drives now and do it over wifi to a drive in secret location witheld.
      • aidos 15y ago
        I can definitely sympathise. MacBook and backup drives containing all my photos and music taken from a bookshelf. I foolishly thought it would never happen. Needless to say I now have offsite backups but it's a horrid lesson to learn. DONT take it for granted - a service like backblaze might be the best $5 you ever spend. Oh, and they took a bottle of vodka that was 3/4 empty. These scumbags do weird things.
      • rdl 15y ago
        From someone who had building burn down: back up to offsite locations, ideally off-state, ideally off-continent, over the Internet, and CHECK YOUR RESTORE PROCEDURE PERIODICALLY. A wifi backup to a time capsule hidden up in the rafters (digital rat line!) isn't going to help you if crackheads break in...and then burn your place down with an errant crackpipe. (also, envy on the car journalism; being an equipment reviewer for stuff you really love, like cars, guns, scuba gear, computer gear, headphones, etc., would be a really fun paid hobby)
        • stevejalim 15y ago
          Yeah, offsite is the way to go, I think. We're due to get fibre broadband here in December, and that's when the whole lot will go up to S3 monthly if not weekly. That said, I guess I'm talking about ~2TB of stuff (work data and personal data) -- wasn't there a thread somewhere that discussed the various options? I'm in the UK, rather than the US, and would rather keep my data in the EU
    • boucher 15y ago
      The first time my home was robbed (while I was sleeping upstairs), the perpetrators did a whole bunch of bizarre things, like taking a jar of pickles out of the fridge and leaving them on the front porch and taking the laundry detergent from our laundry room and pouring it out in the back yard. In an unrelated story, I happened to be moving out of that apartment the same day. And the very next day my new apartment also got robbed.
      • Natsu 15y ago
        > In an unrelated story, I happened to be moving out of that apartment the same day. And the very next day my new apartment also got robbed. Maybe the thief forgot to take something?
      • dredmorbius 15y ago
        Remind me not to rent in your neighborhood ;-)
    • JacobAldridge 15y ago
      First time I got robbed, they took my CD player, moved my stack of CDs, but left them all there! Way to insult my music tastes. They also stole my dinner suit. Which I had bought the week before, worn to a party, soaked with my dance sweat, and not yet cleaned. Insurance repaid me the full value of the suit, so essentially I got a "free suit rental" out of the experience. (Plus the cost of new bars on all my windows. And the experience six months later of, presumably, interrupting the same guy trying to climb in my bathroom window at dinner time. Thankfully he never returned after that.)
    • keeptrying 15y ago
      My 42inch tv and nothing else.
    • thom 15y ago
      As a kid, I lost an Atari Lynx to burglars, but I still feel sad about it. Last laugh was on them though, as they left the battery pack. NICE 1.5 HOUR BATTERY LIFE, YOU SCUM.
      • Uchikoma 15y ago
        Glad I still have my Lynx. And I'm going to play some Skweek when home. Thanks for reminding me of that :-)
        • thom 15y ago
          Enjoy! 'Twas a fine machine. :)
• justhw 15y ago
  She trusted them and left for the weekend?
  • swolchok 15y ago
    That struck me as odd too -- is this a normal use case for airbnb?
    • benmccann 15y ago
      Yeah. The one time I used it, my brother sent a phtocopy of his driver's license to the apartment owner and she sent him the keys in the mail. I was a little nervous about it all working out, but all the hotels in the area were booked or were $600+/night. It ended up being a pretty good experience for us, but it did require both sides to be pretty trusting.
  • perokreco 15y ago
    This happens sometimes with couchsurfing as well. People are generally good and trusting.
• prof 15y ago
  I cannot believe he did not meet them in person first. And left valuable things behind. edit: or she..
  • dlss 15y ago
    1. Sounds like a fairly thorough email screening happened 2. Locked closet
  • darklajid 15y ago
    How is that relevant? Apart from the fact that valuables were locked in, I don't get the point: - You cannot take everything with you, you have to leave stuff at your _home_ (all the documents mentioned for example). - I won't try to claim that I can speak for the author, but I'd guess that the valuables lost are less a problem. The violation/emotional troubles seem to be worse. - Giving the nature of the destruction (it seems so much on purpose, so carefully done) I don't even know if 'did not meet them in person first' would've helped. At least the author would recognize these guys again on the street, but I don't believe that it is proven that you would've sensed something that wrong.. It kind of reads like someone enjoyed a dark fetish by destroying random stuff.
    • erikpukinskis 15y ago
      You cannot take everything with you, you have to leave stuff at your _home_ (all the documents mentioned for example). In light of this article, if I ever rented my apartment out for a week, I would box up any sensitive documents, or particularly valuable items, and leave them at a friend's house. I don't even know if 'did not meet them in person first' would've helped. Getting a scan of a photo ID, matching it to the person, and possibly getting a current photo of them, along with a license plate number all would be reasonable measures that you could take in a five minute meeting. Not only would they give you more leverage in police investigations, they would probably deter people from trashing/taking your stuff. The violation/emotional troubles seem to be worse. Some of the violation comes from the feeling that she can't really do very much about it, and that she was totally unprepared for it. AirBnB offering a few tips, of the "here are some things people to do protect themselves, you might consider them" variety, seems totally reasonable.
• jackpirate 15y ago
  How could you, in principle, even tell that it was the bnb'ers who did it? What's to say that they didn't accidentally leave the door unlocked when they left, and someone else broke in?
  • vacri 15y ago
    If nothing else, it takes a while for wet towels to get mildew.
• rdl 15y ago
  I am non-representatively paranoid, and have always been afraid of this kind of thing when having guests not personally known to me, visitors to "open house" office events, etc. I think there is little actual risk with almost anyone as a guest (most people ARE good, or at least non-malicious, or at least lazy), but this is why the AirBnB reputation system is so key to their value (and why they'll have a strong network effect). Maybe the effect of this will be to make people want personal connections (via fb graph or whatever) to their AirBnB guests, or at least requiring minimum numbers of positive reviews from known sources (to prevent the sockpuppet/shill issue). I wonder if your renter's or homeowners insurance might cover this kind of thing. If it doesn't generally, it'd be awesome if AirBnB could work with a third party insurer (per jurisdiction) to offer optional insurance to hosts (and guests) against this kind of thing.
  • Jach 15y ago
    It'd be awesomer if AirBnB just replaced all the material things that are replaceable, relocated this person, and in general made them feel happy/safe again. One time only, introduce a better model to prevent/mitigate/insure (as you suggest) for future occurrences.
    • ja2ke 15y ago
      As long as it doesn't start resulting in people 'burning down the place' for the 'insurance' money.
  • wheels 15y ago
    I suspect home owner's insurance would not cover this since they would probably see it as an unlicensed rental. I've thought for a while that Airbnb will need to develop an insurance system. I'm sure that lesser incidents of property destruction / theft are far more commonplace (carpet stains, cigarette burns, appliances damaged, "borrowing" something that doesn't get returned) and I've thought dealing with such is going to be eventually crucial to making the model sustainable over time. And then, of course, there are going to be rare catastrophes like this one -- or worse. Eventually, if the system gets large enough, there will be a sexual assault case. I wonder if Airbnb has pre-baked disaster scenario plans. Eventually they'll have to deal with the emotional, PR, legal and political fallout. It's still one of the things that keeps me queasy about listing my extra bedroom. I'd guesstimate the replacement value of the contents of my apartment is circa $50k and I'm loathe to gamble with such.
• cookiecaper 15y ago
  I hate that the author broke out the short skirt rape thing. I don't think someone that leaves their house to strangers while they go out of town for a week is quite as innocent as a rape victim that was targeted for lack of modesty.
  • praptak 15y ago
    Innocent? Careless != guilty.
    • cookiecaper 15y ago
      Right, but it's bad taste to equate a short skirt with letting someone you've never met live in your house completely unattended for a week. Most people have the sense to understand that that is a dangerous idea. I don't endorse either ransacking or rape, and I recognize that there was a crime that was committed here and that the victim is still a victim. But I think comparing that to comments that a woman "deserved" to be raped because of her attire is over the line and insensitive to rape victims.
      • chalst 15y ago
        The linked-to OP did not talk of deserving to be raped. You have inverted her point.
      • praptak 15y ago
        I only criticized your choice of words: "I don't think someone that leaves their house [...] is quite as _innocent_ [...]" implies that this somehow makes them guilty. I believe that both the homeowner and the figurative rape victim are equally innocent.
    • biot 15y ago
      The word innocent also refers to childlike innocence, or an innocent mistake just as "loss of innocence" doesn't mean "becoming guilty" (at least not in a legal sense).
  • danilocampos 15y ago
• Luyt 15y ago
  How is this: "... emphasize that the customer service team at airbnb.com has been wonderful..." reconcilable with this: "...My next call was to airbnb.com - I tried their "urgent" line, their email address, their general customer support line. I heard nothing - no response whatsoever - until the following day, 14 sleepless hours later, and only after a desperate call to an airbnb.com freelancer I happen to know helped my case get some attention..." Does that mean you'd have to know someone who works at AirBnB before you can get customer service? I've heard similar stories about Google, too.
  • mbreese 15y ago
    Customer service was apparently wonderful... after they were able to get ahold of them. One of their suggestions was that airbnb add immediately a 24/7 customer service line, which would have fixed the initial delay.
• mrinterweb 15y ago
  It is unfortunate that stories like that could really harm AirBnB's reputation. I am sure that there are plenty of vacation rental stories of people trashing and burglarizing properties, but the difference is that this was not a vacation rental. I hope that thieves do not make a trend of preying on AirBnB hosts to gain access to their private residences.
  • mcantelon 15y ago
    AirBnB's policy of "disallowing the exchange of personal contact information until the point in which a reservation is already confirmed and paid for" seems like it makes this kind of story inevitable.
• badclient 15y ago
  With a name like Dj Paterson I'm not sure you could even sign up on google+ or fb.
• deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
• timsally 15y ago
  After someone has copies of your passport, birth certificate, social security card, etc, what do you even do? Isn't your identity compromised forever?
  • Ixiaus 15y ago
    Not really. Often copies or stolen birth certificates, SS cards, and passports are sold to forgers that can use them to make fake passports and identities. So it isn't to necessarily impersonate you (although it can be used for that). You can get a new SS number, and you can get a new passport which makes the old ones null - but as far as a birth certificate goes - I'm not too privy on the security features of those documents. I do know though that they are rarely used to impersonate and more often used as forgery material. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
    • deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
• joshfraser 15y ago
  This is not the first story like this I have heard about AirBnB. They have just done a good job keeping them hush hush and talking people out of going to the cops. Obviously stories like this are horrible for their reputation and AirBnB have a big incentive to try and take care of issues on their own.
  • patrickod 15y ago
    Have you any links for this? Those sound like pretty big accusations to be making without citations.
    • joshfraser 15y ago
      No links. Just first hand stories from people I trust.
      • bandushrew 15y ago
        so this kind of abuse has happened so frequently that multiple people you know and trust are able to give first hand stories. That is shocking.
        • gjm11 15y ago
          If it's true.
    • jnordstrom 15y ago
      If there were links, wouldn't that disprove his point?
      • patrickod 15y ago
        I don't see what users would have to gain in not going to the police and reporting these crimes. Unless he's implying airbnb is buying their silence
• varunsrin 15y ago
  I always found AirBnB's model based on a surprising amount of trust - I for one would never be comfortable just handing over they keys to my place to a total stranger. Even if they didn't ransack my place completely, as happened to the unfortunate author - I would be concerned about unintentional damage to my property that I might not discover till too late. Renting out something as private as my primary place of residence just seems like a generally bad idea, especially when I am not around to constantly check in on it. Even if I got to meet them, and they seemed like nice people whats to stop them from leaving without paying if they accidentally broke my TV ? As the service expands, and becomes more craigslist-y (in terms of audience) I can only see problems like this getting worse, and apart from implementing some kind of guest / host rating system (like ecommerce portals do with sellers) I see no clear solution to the problem.
  • bambax 15y ago
    Same here. I'd be more than willing to use the service as a customer, but as a host? Never. If you're a customer the worst of the worst than can happen is you lose the rental fee and have to find a hotel. As a host, the worst that can happen is this.
    • speckledjim 15y ago
      No, the worst that could happen is the host is a psycho who wants to murder / rape / take nude pics of you without you knowing. There's a reason hotels exist, and there's a reason why it's a bad idea to hitch-hike, or even worse, stay with people you don't know.
      • dmm 15y ago
        Everything in life carries risks. Trusting strangers is nice. I'd rather live in a world where I can. Then again I live in a place where people leave their cars unlocked.
        • speckledjim 15y ago
          Sure, but the whole premise is that you're traveling. Going to unknown territories. If I'm going traveling, I'm sure as hell in "untrusting" mode since I don't have a clue what the locals are like. There's strangers as in "local resident I see each day but don't know", and there's strangers as in "I've just traveled to a completely different country and have no clue who this person is" Wanting to trust everyone and believing majority of people are good is a nice hippy dream. There's some nasty horrible people out there.
• vladd 15y ago
  AirBnB can be used without issues if you own a property and you're willing to operate it like a hotel: you're present on the premises to check in the guests, you have a room or a reception-like place from where you can monitor the situation, and you're able to inspect the place when they leave. Operating a property remotely via AirBnB implies all sorts of risks, which makes me think that it might be an unsustainable model, because a black swan event might ruin the property to such extent that it offsets the income made in all the other cases. AirBnB handles property promotion and property booking on the Internet -- that's fine -- but when it advertised itself it included in the message ways to do property administration (as in rent-your-home-while-away). While this is not connected intricately with their core business, it is the model that some owners assumed by default, without realizing the risks involved or the fact that you are still exposed to one-in-one-hundred unpleasant events. If they manage to warn about this upfront similar to the way Craiglist does, without losing their brand and their community support, then owners will become aware of those issues and take the necessary protection (by i.e. requesting guarantees/deposits/passports or by using their social network to validate the guests). If they don't, I'm afraid a couple of bad PR articles will be enough to destroy their reputation. P.S.: I haven't heard of hotels managed remotely; there are some hotels where you check in automatically and you get the keys via some sort of robot system but in the morning there is someone handling the checkout, the cleaning etc. In addition they have your credit card on file, your passport, probably your cam photo when you picked up the keys and the most you can destroy is a hotel room (still a great deal of value but somehow limited and the hotel probably has insurance for it). But automation didn't pick up at scale in the hotel industry. In the current state, it thrives partially because the reception provides the safety-checks and balances needed to prevent and offset these black swan events. I'm not sure the remote administration model is scalable or even manage-able due to this.
  • dlss 15y ago
    Um, this is incorrect. Hotels are vandalized all the time... having a "reception-like place from where you can monitor the situation", and "inspect[ing] the place when they leave" doesn't prevent people from trashing your room/apt. It sounds like the person who trashed the OP's apartment /enjoyed/ trashing it -- it didn't sound like someone inconsiderate, or in a hurry; it sounded like someone who deliberately and knowingly ruined the place. The security measures you suggest won't stop that sort of attacker.
• bluesmoon 15y ago
  I haven't use AirBnB before, but I do use CouchSurfing a lot. CouchSurfing's system of verification, vouching and references makes a big difference to how much you feel you can trust someone who asks to use your home. I do still sometimes accept guests with no references, particularly if it's a last minute, but I check their IDs first, and only give them limited access to my home.
• cageface 15y ago
  It's yet another tragedy of the commons. As AirBNB becomes more popular I expect this is going to happen more often. Unfortunately I think this is only going to have to happen a few more times before people start to seriously question the wisdom of inviting a relative stranger into their homes.
  • gaius 15y ago
    Exactly this. A service thorougly tested with (for want of a better term) early-adopter Internet hipsters is going to fail in entirely predictable ways when exposed to the Internet that gave us 4chan.
• speckledjim 15y ago
  Always bound to happen. Up next, the host who fits spycams in his shower and posts pics of his naked visitors to porn sites.
  • jrockway 15y ago
    That's what I would do. I once got a letter from my management company that said, "we are conducting random apartment inspections tomorrow. be aware." This bothered me because I don't really like people in my house, and they didn't give the 24 hours notice required by law. So, I set up some cameras, broadcast it to the Internet, and told my twitter followers to watch my apartment for me while I was at work. They never showed up.
    • speckledjim 15y ago
      Good reason why renting sucks. (It's not your house).
      • Luyt 15y ago
        Yes and no. There are also situations where state inspectors can come into your bought house: building structural safety inspection, fire safety, pest control etc... It also depends on where you live, of course.
  • rms 15y ago
    Or the guy from Hacker News that enacts that gonzo style as a gimmick to promote his legal porn site.
  • loevborg 15y ago
    What a thoroughly evil idea!
• sushumna 15y ago
  Sorry for you.But,this post has brought to light some serious loopholes with Airbnb. Now its up to them to come up with a fix for these kind of issues not to repeat. Probably they need to do some background checks,referrals,FB connections,SSNs etc. Its a lesson for any host also to ensure that they keep their personal things safe before renting it out.
• jasonshen 15y ago
  This sort of thing is bound to happen when you have helped over 1 million stays between two people who are usually strangers. I think what's more impressive is how long it took for something this big and this public to happen. Human beings act in strange ways and you take a risk anytime you interact with one. I feel awful that this happened to this woman but I don't think it means Airbnb has a flawed business model or needs to dramatically change the way they sign up users.
• morganwarstler 15y ago
  Airbnb should willingly do MORE to verify users than CarFax, Paypal, Facebook, etc. Screw your bizmodel. Run a credit and criminal background check - and charge 4%.
  • wisty 15y ago
    Simple - first time users submit scan of a photo ID, and a picture of themselves. AirBnB checks the ID, and publishes the photo. After booking, the owner can use Skype to see if they match the photo.
    • domador 15y ago
      Great idea! However, AirBnB should not only post the photo, but also be in charge of verifying over Skype that it matches the person posting it. If it'd be too expensive to verify every single new user, they could just verify them once they make their first booking. AirBnB should be the one matching photos to real, living individuals since not everyone renting out their home is likely to be as through as a company with a well-established procedure.
• danenania 15y ago
  What happened to this person is awful and it´s understandable that she/he is very emotional at this point, but I don´t think the lesson is you can´t ever trust people, or that the AirBnB model is flawed. It´s more like: hope for the best, plan for the worst. There is always going to be some black swan risk even if AirBnB does do more vetting. There´s no reason for example to leave valuables anywhere in the residence while strangers are there. You can´t be 100% protected unless you´re willing to get insurance, which probably doesn´t make sense for the occasional provider, but you can at least remove the low hanging fruit risk-wise. Perhaps AirBnB should take a more active role in educating its providers on basic precautions.
  • carbonica 15y ago
    > There´s no reason for example to leave valuables anywhere in the residence while strangers are there. So you're saying AirBnB should advocate against rentals while you're away? Or are you saying, if you want to rent while you're gone for a week, that you should get a week's worth of self-storage (which I've never heard of, but might exist in a city), move all your important belongings to the self-storage unit, and move them back after the guest is gone? That seems quite onerous.
    • danenania 15y ago
      That or drop them with a friend or relative. Why is that so onerous? I think people should use AirBnB however they see fit, but understand the risks in doing so and take whatever precautions are realistic to lessen them. This situation would still suck, but not be nearly as bad/scary/expensive if the victim hadn't left cash, credit cards, expensive electronics, legal documents etc. in the apartment. I'm just recommending easy steps to lower the potential downside and increase the overall EV of being an AirBnB provider given that this sort of nightmare is a slight but real possibility.
      • carbonica 15y ago
        It's not onerous until you consider that desktop computers and flat-screen TVs are "valuables".
• gojomo 15y ago
  The guests sound like drug addicts. (Maybe meth? Tweakers do bizarre things like move furniture at odd hours or burn fires without opening the flue.) I've been a happy AirBnb guest on a few occasions; the one time I had someone's whole usual studio apartment I found it a bit strange how much of their life was left on display for me – like the host's prescriptions still in the fridge! – but of course respected their privacy. Each time I've been a guest, we've seen photos of each other on the site, and the keys were handed off in person. While I didn't expect anyone to stop by and check on me during my stays, I always had the impression the host or host's friends were nearby. A guest with criminal intent would try to pick a place for a longer stay, in a more anonymous building, with a host known to be out-of-town. But then again, that's also what someone seeking to burglarize any vacation-emptied residence would do. More or less this same sort of crime could happen without AirBnb, or perhaps be enabled by nothing more than tracking public tweets/'check-ins' to predict unit vacancy. (Another development I eventually expect in this progression of tech-mediated sharing: a bad-faith host who surveils their guests.)
  • citricsquid 15y ago
    I assumed the drug addict thing too, but to me (although I have limited experience with people on drugs) the fact that they took the time to communicate that "everything was okay" to the host (and had the money to pay for all this (although I guess $500 upfront if they're going to steal $2,000 worth of stuff is an "investment" (I guessed at those $ figures))) makes me think it's something more sinister. They'd have to be pretty eccentric even for drug addicts to go to these lengths.
  • nzoschke 15y ago
    I too would guess the guests were meth addicts. I had the unfortunate experience of moving in with some tweakers and some of these behaviors gave me flashbacks. It's a hell of a drug -- my roommate was once a normal young professional, but methamphetamine use turned him into a monster with bizarre, destructive habits around the house, and dark, evil plotting against friends and us roommates. He would be sober and make normal plans to go to work, fix up the house, have friends over, then he would get really high and skip work, destroy the concrete floor by "power washing" it, and throw a tweaker party with loud music at 3AM, and threaten everyone that asked him to turn it down. There was violence, abuse, and damage to the property. I removed myself from the apartment for my own safety, and ended up forfeiting thousands of dollars in security deposit for what he did when left completely on his own. I obviously don't know the situation here, but all of a sudden my thoughts of again hosting CouchSurfers or AirBnB guests is shaken. There are some bad people out there, made even more unstable with drug use, and these sites offer a vector in which they can enter your life.
• jijoy 15y ago
  Why not taking some security deposit from the customer ? Like normal rentals do .
• ffffruit 15y ago
  Is there anything stopping the renter from taking extra precautions? Like for example photocopy the tenants passport? I am finding it hard to believe that somebody would drop off the keys to his own apartment to a total stranger, regardless of any guarantees the site does, without even wanting to briefly meet them.
  • xentronium 15y ago
    > Like for example photocopy the tenants passport? Doesn't AirBnB do that? If no, then why?! Disclaimer: never used the service.
• g123g 15y ago
  With internet almost run over by all kinds of scam artists, spammers, pedos etc. is there any surprise that such a thing can happen? You have crackers trying their level best to install keyloggers and other tools to read the passwords to your accounts. And in this environment if you hand over the key of your apartment to some complete stranger, I think the writer should also take some blame for his naivety. Just because airbnb is current flavor of the month it does not mean you throw your basic common sense out the door. Even if you are present in an apartment yourself, it is still too risky to allow a complete stranger to sleep in the room next to you. How much verification can be done by you or airbnb? The Norwegian shooter had no criminal history that could have been caught by any verification. So how can you be comfortable with allowing a stranger into your home with no verification done at all from your side? I think there should be a service which will allow you to rent the room only to your friends or to friends of friends but no further than that. This friend list can be from facebook, linkedin or Google+. This will reduce the chances of getting a rental but give peace of mind that you are not letting some hardened criminal into your home.
  • Robin_Message 15y ago
    I know this is a horrible and shocking event, and my thoughts are with the person who has had their life violated, but I feel compelled to comment that you are wrong. The internet is not "almost run over [with] scam artists, spammers, pedos etc." They are visible and use anonymity to do what they do on the internet, certainly, but it is far from overrun. Secondly, is it really too risky to be asleep without a locked door between you and the world? That is a scary, closed world to live in. You are also wrong to blame the victim; they say themselves they made a mistake not to do more verification, but the blame can only be on the perpetrator †. Finally, let's not forget that most sexual assaults and rapes [1] are carried out by friends and acquaintances, so limiting your contact to friends of friends is unlikely to make you significantly safer. Overall, I think your conclusions are the worst to draw from this attack. Take care, but don't go crazy keeping out the "other". † It might be useful to make a distinction between casual responsibility and moral responsibility. The victim may have done something that helped cause the attack, but they are not at fault. [1] According to (admitted a random googling) the American Centre for Victims of Crime, 77% of rapes are committed by non-strangers. http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32306 http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&#38...
• hluska 15y ago
  There is a big chicken or egg problem right at the core Of this sad case. On one hand, why would anyone trust someone they have only had limited conversations with to stay in their home...alone? On the other hand, if Airbnb allows renters to do background checks before the agreement is finalized, how do they avoid private sales? I can't resolve this, so I wouldn't dream of renting my place out unless I was going to be there. And even then, I'd sleep with one eye open!
  • kenjackson 15y ago
    Why doesn't AirBnB simply do the checks you would do? In fact AirBnB can give a checklist of services they can run from nationwide background to credit checks. You check off what you want done, and AirBnB bills you for them.
• dools 15y ago
  "I certainly cannot and do not blame the agency for what has occurred. If anything, I blame myself" Yeah no shit. You let strangers stay in your house for a week and all your valuables were still in the apartment? I guess Airbnb could have a "safety" section but this type of warning would be similar to the "Caution! Hot!" they're forced to put on coffee cup lids now.
• prawn 15y ago
  Looks like a couple of reporters have already hit the comments area looking for more info for a story. It goes far, far beyond a basic theft or incident of vandalism and could easily blow up internationally and do a great deal of damage to the AirBnB brand. I don't know the blogger in any way at all, but have to admit that my first thought was to wonder if this might've been arranged by a competing industry or service at all. Sounds a bit over the top to be a pre-conceived plan though. Doubt various hotel associations would be desperately unhappy to see this story though, you have to admit. Between Google and AirBnB, I'm sure the police could have IP addresses of the perpetrator(s) and track them down unless they were particularly smart (and if they are particularly smart, they'd be picking bigger targets...).
  • mike-cardwell 15y ago
    I don't think what you're suggesting is that paranoid. There has to have been some motive. Perhaps it was just somebody seeking revenge, either against the person whos flat it was, or against AirBnB.
    • prawn 15y ago
      I presume AirBnB got some money from the person making the booking, so you're probably right that they went in with some plan having had to pay up front (?) for the opportunity. I'd also be curious (but not enough to look into it further!) to know whether the lister made it clear in their profile that they would not be meeting the renter in person. Could be a mixture of theft and then opportunistic/drug-fueled mischief. Backtracking, I wonder if someone put a group up to it, or suggested that AirBnB listers could be soft targets - opportunity for the thieves and also for someone putting them up to it. Short of having the blog post taken down, even if a follow-up is added to the top of the post, this will be very damaging for AirBnB. I've used the site a few times successfully (though ended up thinking it was often more trouble than just using a cheap hotel) so hate to see this happen.
    • carbonica 15y ago
      To suggest it might not be paranoid, but merely prudent. To think it's at all more likely that this is a setup against AirBnB and not just... you know, crime... I think is in fact paranoid. If you want motive, here's one that you might be surprised to learn motivates a lot of crime: the guest needed money for drugs/debt/food/just wanted money, and thought he might get away with it. Houses get broken into. People get mugged. There doesn't need to be a conspiracy for these things to happen.
• imaverickk2 15y ago
  It begs the question, what would be a good verification system for online identities so that sites like AirBnB can leverage? Also, will your property insurance cover this or would this be considered albeit rightly to some extent a carelessness on your part. Come to think of it, like any other insurance industry, providing insurance (dedicated?) for such people for an additional X% wouldn't be a bad start - though it might need more volume for it to be profitable.
• Creyels 15y ago
  I like the (security) services offered by Onefinestay http://www.onefinestay.com/hosts http://www.onefinestay.com/hosts Everyday someone checks your home and cleans it. Additionaly they actually turn your home into a more hotel-like experience - so guests are provided with towels etc. At least for higher priced accomodations a good choice.
• deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
• rdl 15y ago
  I'm curious what the specific crime is if you're in a place like NYC or SF (where <30 day rentals are illegal for zoning reasons), you legally permit someone entry to your space, and he just trashes (vs. stealing) stuff. It should be a crime, but what is it? Not theft, not trespass. "Criminal damage to property", or vandalism, probably counts, but that's really up to the jurisdiction on what it includes. I wish this guy would try this in Singapore; 3 years in prison and/or caning.
  • mseebach 15y ago
    Grand theft auto of a car that's parked illegally is still grand theft auto. Ie. that renting the place out is in violation of zoning laws does not make any difference to what crime the guest commits. The bigger problem is insurance, which, as others point out, probably does not cover.
• VladRussian 15y ago
  whats wrong with renting through Craigslist (except obvious problem of spam from companies like AirBnB) ? Both parties may request and provide any documents/verifications until their mutual full satisfaction. We had no problem renting space in Europe from US for example though some amount of communication and search was involved - we didn't like some people, some people didn't like us as we needed full paperwork from them for visas, etc... i wonder how such fine tuning of mutual requirements would be possible through "blind renting" service like AirBnB.
• shareme 15y ago
  It sounds like AirBnB need to educate first-time users more.. It obviously is not for those people who have property that cannot remove personal items from said property before doing a earn-my-trust AirBnB person trial run..
• cafebabe 15y ago
  People are naive, so are businesses.
• brianchesky 15y ago
  Hey everyone - we were shocked when we heard about this unsettling event. We have been working closely with the authorities, and we want to reassure our community that, with the help of our security infrastructure, we were able to assist the police in their investigation, and we understand from authorities that a suspect is now in custody. We've created a marketplace built on trust, transparency and authenticity within our community, and we hold the safety of our community members as our highest priority. We will continue to work with our users to stamp out those who would put that community at risk in any way. The vast majority of our community members genuinely respect and protect each other, but we urge users to be careful and discerning with each other and to hold others accountable through reviews, flagging and our customer service channel. Our hearts go out to our host and we will continue to work with her and with the authorities to make this right.
  • vladd 15y ago
    Hey brian, - what's your side of the story on being unreachable 14 hours after the event? - did you offer AirBnB credit or compensation to the victim to stay elsewhere during this?
    • abrimo 15y ago
      To be fair I doubt the victim would be comfortable receiving airbnb credit or using the service again. If this happened to me and I was offered credit, I would feel insulted.
    • jeffool 15y ago
      Purely pulling this out of my ass, but I'm hoping whoever took his initial call(s) just severely misunderstood the situation. Maybe people have had trashy guests or items broken and became irate over them, and that's what this person thought was happening. I hope. I don't know the company's "side of the story", and would be surprised if it was ever really discussed in any way aside from steps taken to remedy this situation... But as this suggests, they apparently need, above their "urgent" number, a "Bat-Phone" for severe cases.
      • 15y ago
• buster 15y ago
  Wow.. that's terrible! I really enjoyed all my couchsurfing and airbnb experiences so far, they resulted in the best travels i ever had.. it's sad to see such a thing happen, and i hope the criminaly will be catched and punished. Still, i am looking forward for my next airbnb trip, it's a great way to travel!
• DrStalker 15y ago
  Does AirBnB offer any help with insurance? I know my home & contents insurance wouldn't cover any of this: I'd need to get (expensive) commerical insurance or some sort, and I'm guessing most AirBnB hosts don't have that. The idea of renting out my place with no recourse to insurance if it is destroyed is far too insane to contemplate for me.
  • lutorm 15y ago
    Given the exposure, I would expect AirBnB to have liability insurance up the wazoo. It seems likely they would lose a lawsuit in this case, and even with just partial liability it could be very expensive.
    • sequoia 15y ago
      Why would they lose a lawsuit if one were brought in this case? I haven't read it but I'd wager their TOS gives them the right to your first born child (hmm... I'm trying to say it probably disclaims any possible liability in the broadest possible terms, bad analogy perhaps). Then again, whether that holds in court is something we couldn't know until after a case.
• fakeer 15y ago
  Trust me, be it AirBnB or FairBnB, just never hand over your home keys to a stranger - a stranger to "you". Make it a thumb rule. PS. sad to hear the loss and trauma BTW.
• eric-hu 15y ago
  Is no one else struck by the peculiar behavior of the tenants? Scattering bleach powder across the apartment and taking the time to hang up strange photos seems a bit too erratic to me. I wonder if the renter has serious mental issues or if this was part of some intelligent plan (i.e. hired by couchsurfing). This is PURE speculation, don't cite this post as anything else.
  • rdl 15y ago
    one word explains all of this: methamphetamine. (and I say this as someone who believes in drug decriminalization or legalization)
    • eric-hu 15y ago
      I'm generally for (soft) drug decriminalization, too, but I don't have much experience with meth heads :) Would someone upped on meth be able to conduct himself well via email, sending polite thank-you's?
      • elliottcarlson 15y ago
        Yes - my experience with meth heads is that they can be perfectly normal in their interactions, but once high on meth they can be aggressive, obsessive compulsive and destructive. Granted, this can't only be blamed on meth (or drugs in general) - the person was obviously sober at some point during this trip - or at least sober enough to know what they were doing. This all seems like a planned out event to have fun with a couple of 8-balls and have a fun couple of days without worrying about what happened to the apartment in the end.
        • shoota 15y ago
          I have seen a Meth head steal something from someone, and then politely offer to help them look for what they just stole from them.
• jv22222 15y ago
  This could resolved if airbnb insisted on a refundable deposit of $500-$1000 per visit.
  • Omnipresent 15y ago
    500 to 1000 is not bad of a seed funding for a thief. I think better security measure would be to provide some sort of valid state or federal or national identifications. Any decent hotel requires this so why not AirBnB?
    • marquis 15y ago
      I would pay to be verified by AirBnB, by uploading a picture ID and having a human verify this. A service I use provids added verification by mailing you a code that you enter on the site to prove your address. Things like this could help a lot to assisting with identity scams.
  • SkyMarshal 15y ago
    Most of their customers would stop using it then. They use AirBnB instead of some swank hotel in large part for the cost. Even if the deposit was just a temporary hold of their funds or credit, that would be a huge turnoff to a large chunk of their customer base.
• extension 15y ago
  I wonder if the hotel chains would hire goons to do this.
  • extension 15y ago
    Ouch. Not sure what everyone has against this simple speculation. The hotels have already used some sleazy legal tactics against Airbnb and corporations have been known to do worse when an entire industry is under threat. I just find it odd that a mere thief would go to so much extra trouble to destroy things and cause grief.
• jakarta 15y ago
  To me, this underscores one of the key risks to having an AirBnB room for rent. I think if you are going to do it, you really have to be careful. 1. You should probably be someone that works from home / is home often. At least then you can monitor your place more often. You wont be seeing inside the room, but you could at least hear if anything insane is going on in it. 2. You should not have much by way of valuables around your place, nothing easy to steal. The first place I rented on AirBnB was like this. There was no TV/dvd player/ps3, the host had a laptop which he took with him. It consisted mostly of cheap Ikea-ish furniture. This works in my mind because it mitigates what can/can't be stolen.
• Omnipresent 15y ago
  victim is correct, this was bound to happen to someone and as the service goes popularity, there will be more victims in the future. AirBnB should have other security measures in place like providing driver license #, ssn, etc. so that identity of the person renting the place is assured. With all the recent funding leading to great PR, bad elements will start coming in. Site is no longer bound to the nice educated customer base.
  • caf 15y ago
    How do you verify that the drivers license, ssn etc are genuine, and not simply stolen as the credit card numbers are?
    • marquis 15y ago
      Send a physical letter to the address of the user's bank account, or other form of ID?
• lwhi 15y ago
  I remember a while back, someone on HN commented that they preferred the AirBnB model to CouchSurfing; because they felt that they were under no obligation to spend time with their host, or try to repay their hospitality with a meal or gift. CouchSurfing relies upon (and in turn reinforces) a culture of good-will. Because AirBnB converts the CouchSurfing model into a simple cash transaction - I think a lot of the positive norms that are inherent to CouchSurfing are lost.
  • micheljansen 15y ago
    Exactly, it seems much harder to blatantly vandalize the home of a like-minded person who personally welcomes you into their home, offers to show you around etc. than the fancy loft of some faceless traveling businessman. Also paying for something tends to give certain people a sense of entitlement. Of course none of this makes what happened to the poor person in this case OK or even remotely acceptable. Nonetheless, I think understanding why things happen is a good step towards coming up with a solution. Maybe if AirBnB can get some of the personality of the Couchsurfing community, it can get some of these positive norms that go with it as well. The trick would be how to do that without losing the low social barrier to entry they have now.
• Uchikoma 15y ago
  Woman gives apartment keys to complete stranger. Gets robbed. 279 points and 124 comments on HN.
  • Uchikoma 15y ago
    Thanks for the -4, I think a.) that's worth it b.) proves my point. A "new" business model aka AirBnB does not change any facts.
    • fjabre 15y ago
      +1. It's because HN is fundamentally biased and always will be. The top 2 comments are not surprisingly pro airbnb: a) People are still good fundamentally - because that's exactly what I'd want to hear if someone ransacked my place. b) PR from a guy who works there. I personally wouldn't want to stay in a stranger's house and I don't think I ever will - no matter how big airbnb becomes I believe there will always be a percentage of people who are uncomfortable with the airbnb business model. Obviously a lot of people don't care and airbnb will go on to be successful I'm sure but it's a shame this community has such a hard time being honest with itself.
• edw519 15y ago
  I get angry when I realize I will never again be who I've always been before, someone who lived strong and free by the creed that people are essentially good, that if you think optimistically, trust others. Please don't let them steal this too. I'm really sorry for your bad experience, but remember: - You can still live strong and free. - People are still essentially good. - You can still think optimistically. - You can still trust others. It's true, you will never be who you've always been. But you can be almost the same person, still optimistic and trusting, just a little less naive. You many not realize it now, but the time will come when you may actually appreciate this as a learning experience. There are bad people out there and some of them will want to hurt you. You don't have to sacrifice who you really are because of them. You just have to live a little bit differently. Don't let them take away you really are. Believe it or not, that would be much worse than what they've already done. Lots of well wishes for your quick recovery.
  • levigross 15y ago
    IMHO There are bad people out there and some of them will want to hurt you. You don't have to sacrifice who you really are because of them. You just have to live a little bit differently. means don't use AirBnB
    • ryanklee 15y ago
      If the implication is don't use AirBnB, then the implication is also: never leave your own home and never let anyone in, which is paranoid and absurd. You might object that what you say applies only to strangers and not to those you trust, but then you would be forgetting that everyone you trust was once a stranger. Simply walking down the street is a testament to one's notion that in general humans are good and that that goodness is worthwhile enough to risk the occasional social or even physical injustice.
      • sbov 15y ago
        There's a difference between all of those and giving a person you've never met free, intimate access to your home.
• asciilifeform 15y ago
  Cui bono? Hotels. It seems likely that this "mysterious" crime was paid for by an organization serving the interests of hotels.
  • innes 15y ago
    Cui bono? On some level, the bad bastards who did it. Alternatively yes, of course. Building 7, Area 51, Chemtrails etc...
    • asciilifeform 15y ago
      The apartment-trashing was entirely senseless. The motive was clearly not theft, for example. The simplest hypothesis is that the purpose of the crime was to create outrage - in order to destroy the reputation of AirBnB and its business model. It may yet succeed in doing so.
      • innes 15y ago
        You are aware that there exist nasty people? People who take pleasure in inflicting pain? That's the simplest hypothesis. There's no need to lurch into dark conspiracy theories without any supporting evidence.
        • asciilifeform 15y ago
          The polite "everything is beautiful" emails suggest against meth addicts. And it seems like too much work for a run-of-the-mill sadist.
          • innes 15y ago
            You're right. This has the fingerprints of Big Hotel all over it. It's clearly black-ops by a Hospitality-Industrial Complex team. Gimme strength...
      • _delirium 15y ago
• danberger 15y ago
  Just out of curiosity, why didn't the victim post any pictures of the damage?
  • YooLi 15y ago
    They stole his camera?
    • danberger 15y ago
      I would hope she took pictures for documentation purposes... even if her camera was stolen, she should have borrowed one or bought one for this purpose.
• econgeeker 15y ago
  AirBnB makes us travelers vulnerable to being scammed as well. In the most recent rental, it really was a roll of the dice to see if we were going to have an apartment or not (and of course, by the time we could have contacted AirBnB to say we'd been scammed, the scammer would already have our money, due to the way AirBnB works, and their lack of any way to contact them.) I travel full time. I'm a nomad. I would rent thru AirBnB for 365 nights a year if they provided the service that they originally set out to provide. I think they changed their focus, and rather than building an organic community of people renting their places to each other, they are pursuing the expensive travel market. This makes sense given the profits are higher and it is easier to get vacation rentals in the system than individuals. But they're not the ebay of travel anymore, they've become a HomeAway clone. They also really need to change their policies on communication- they inhibit our ability to talk to the owners before renting, and this is worsened given that many owners may not speak english. Letting us call them or email them is not going to want us to cut AirBnB out of the deal, because the primary value AirBnB provides is the fraud protection of letting us pay by credit card. There's no reason for any company of this size not to have a 24/hour hotline. It may be midnight in california, but it is 5pm somewhere. You have listings around the world. AirBnB's priorities seem to have shifted away from building an organic "ebay of travel" with regular people to maximum growth in revenue, by going after the high end travel market, with a distinct lack of customer service. This may not be intentional, but I'm part of the market-- a heavy use part of the market- and that's how it is looking to me. So, 24 hour hotline, policies for dealing with things that go wrong, to help customers, and letting the people use the site communicate are the changes I'd make. I bet you'll find that more communications means more confidence and more nights rented.
  • johnx123-up 15y ago
    Agreed. Couple of days back, I went through one AirBnB competitor http://www.quora.com/Airbnb/Will-Agriya-Burrow-be-a-threat-to-Airbnb http://www.quora.com/Airbnb/Will-Agriya-Burrow-be-a-threat-t... There comments suggest that HomeAway model is better and also they're adding SecondPorch. I initially thought that their comparison http://www.launchfeed.com/launches/view/1308830151 http://www.launchfeed.com/launches/view/1308830151 is weird. But, that makes sense now.
• deathflute 15y ago
  I have always been skeptical about such services. It is like collecting pennies in front of a steamroller. Sooner or later, a tail event like this is bound to happen. A distribution of hosting experiences has to be fat-tailed. It is okay to deal with that risk when even the worst case scenario is acceptable. But, for your own home how can it be acceptable?
• caf 15y ago
  A reminder that there's more to scaling out to millions of users than ensuring your hardware is up to the task.
• rglover 15y ago
  This is one of those things that made me weary about the home rental business (not necessarily just AirBnB). While I do feel the idea is great, I'm not sure I'd be as composed as this person; especially coming back to a destroyed and violated home. I guess there's no way around it, but this should definitely add an extra layer of thought before posting your home on AirBnB or any other service. Scary stuff.
• sequoia 15y ago
  Moral of the story: By using a service like AirBnB to make some cash, you are Rolling the fucking dice. It's naïve to think otherwise, and if you're not comfortable with that kind of risk, don't do it. It seems some people see the service as "easy money" and don't consider outcomes like this. I think it's best compared to hitchhiking: Is it cheap? Hell yes. Is it consistant/reliable? no. Is it as safe as a bus/plane? usually yes, sometimes no in a big way. I travelled in my youth (5 years ago :p) around several states via thumb. It was a calculated risk I was taking, and both I and other hitchhikers I knew were aware of this risk and took steps to mitigate it (carrying mace, turning down rides– one friend would take a photo of the plates and text them to a friend each ride, informing the driver that he/she was not anonymous). AirBnB is like this: you save/make some money, but rather than a Hotel (or bus company) being on the hook for a bad outcome, YOU are on the hook. If you're not prepared for that, don't do it. It's not "easy money."
• yalogin 15y ago
  The most important thing to note is this has happened even before it hit critical mass, hell its in its infancy still. This is the reason why Airbnb never made sense to me as a business. The author is lucky there was no bodily harm done to him. It's too much of a risk to rent out your personal property to total strangers. Now they forever know where you live and more so know the complete layout of your house and what you have in it and your schedule. At the end of the day it cannot be more than bedandbreakfast.com used as a listing sits for businesses. That is why the 1billion valuation does not make sense either.
• blinkingled 15y ago
  I so wish he had a camera at least on the entrance of the apartment. Besides I hope that since the burglar used Internet for communication the IP address is recorded with AirBNB or Google and that will help track him/her down. Horrible story to be sure. Trust no one goes too far but trust and verify should be the norm. I for one would have thought twice before giving out house keys to a person who misspelled his/her own last name. I guess as he seems to indicate AirBNB model/markting fooled him into 100% trust.
• zeteo 15y ago
  Welcome to the real world, such things are bound to happen. The main question is: to what degree does AirBnB know the identity of the perpetrator? Let alone helping the police catch them; but is AirBnB even able to prevent this person from making a new account and repeating the deed?
• jmm 15y ago
  Call me insensitive, but I think the drama here is overblown. Renting out your room to strangers comes with risks. Theft is an obvious one. Could have been a one or two paragraph post, but maybe this is part of the catharsis in getting over a robbery. And now call me a cynic, but I kind of have the feeling that the the public drama of this complaint is a way of getting the sweetest customer service response ever from AirBnB. Like, new gear, near apartment, moving costs, all of it. Almost like a cooked up insurance claim... if it's not that, AirBnB will probably experience that kind of scam at some point.
• matdwyer 15y ago
  I just was quoted in a national article here in Canada (the Globe & Mail) that talked about using AirBNB... I've passed this story along to the author who is going to see about a followup. This wont stop me from using AirBNB as a guest, but I was never comfortable with renting my own home anyway. edit - if AirBNB kept a drivers license scan on file to confirm the credit card was the users, that would be helpful. I know that is difficult with privacy laws, etc, but when I check into a hotel I always have to show my ID to make sure it has my name on it....
  • evilduck 15y ago
    if AirBNB kept a drivers license scan on file to confirm the credit card was the users Don't credit card companies prohibit this?
• veyron 15y ago
  Of all of the items discussed, the birth certificate, social security and passport are the most important (imho). Supposing I kept them in a bank safety deposit box, what would a thief need to get access to that box?
• inmygarage 15y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if this was organized and executed by an AirBnB competitor. It is just too malicious and meticulously done to constitute a random crime (do I watch too many crime shows? maybe.) AirBnB just closed a gigantic $100m round and they are doing phenomenally well, and here comes someone who makes "everyone's worst fears" about lending out their apartment to a stranger come true.
  • lsb 15y ago
    Are the stakes high enough that you'll pay someone who doesn't snitch to screw with your competitor? If you ever get found out, your brand's mostly sunk.
  • anonymous246 15y ago
    Interesting. I can't see the upvotes but your comment didn't go gray on my downvote. I guess the YC/Airbnb/"laws don't apply on the Internet" fanboys are out in force just like I expected.
    • inmygarage 15y ago
      What do you mean "laws don't apply on the internet". Someone very clearly broke the law here and should be caught and punished accordingly. That's not the argument - it's that a lot of companies can and will play dirty if they have to. Don't you remember the facebook/google PR scandal from a few months ago? Background: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/05/12/facebook-busted-in-clumsy-smear-attempt-on-google.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/05/12/facebook-bu...
  • chanon 15y ago
    If the competitor was in the same business, I think this kind of story would negatively affect them too. Well, unless hotel chains are cooperating in doing it to tarnish AirBNB's repuatation - but I still think that is unlikely.
    • deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
• swah 15y ago
  There is no way those guys lived there for a week and left no fingerprints.
• int3rnaut 15y ago
  I wrote a comment 2 days ago about some of the psychological barriers of this model that AirBnB would have to overcome--and I never even considered the traveler to be the one who's sketchy/troublesome. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2802898 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2802898 On that note though, it'll be really interesting to see how AirBnB tries to counter this problem--there's a reason why people are so secluded and things are so private and fenced.
• hnsmurf 15y ago
  Does homeowner's/renter's insurance cover the property damage from renting out your place?
  • Nutella2 15y ago
    No, it doesn't cover illegal transactions. In many places the Airbnb rentals are violations of local or state hotel laws. Even in places not covered by those kinds of laws, it's unlikely that insurance for owners and renters of a private home covers commercial services in the home. Of course everyone should check their own policy to be sure.
• jarek 15y ago
  I'm shocked by some things I've read in this article. I don't want to blame the victim, but the author has rented out their home for a full week and left identity and financial documents behind a plywood or MDF door. Data, passport, birth certificate, and cash. Trusting people is nice, but surely there's a limit at which it becomes insane. I get a little nervous when I leave my documents in my (empty) apartment over a long weekend; I'm flabbergasted as to why the author seemingly wasn't bothered until after the crime.
• katieben 15y ago
  It would be interesting to see AirBnB's response to this.
• Syama 15y ago
  Personally I think the poster is stupid as f@#&, leaving her apt to complete strangers and then blaming her loss on someone else. What did she expect? B&B's usually have someone onsite to prevent things like this from happening. The person to blame here is the poster and of course the tweakers, not Airbnb.
• peterwwillis 15y ago
  Does AirBnB have owner's/hoster's testimonials like CouchSurfing? It really goes a long way to show someone is trustworthy if they've stayed at 100 people's homes and everyone said nice things about them.
• nhangen 15y ago
  Why would you ever rent your place, important valuables inside the property, without being home? I can understand leaving the place empty of valuables and renting it remotely, but to rent your primary residence while you are away is incredibly foolish. I just don't get it.
• justin_vanw 15y ago
  Reading this article, my spidey sense was tingling the entire time. For whatever reason, I instinctively do not believe that the story this person is telling is the truth.
• lurker19 15y ago
  Good explanation of why hotel rooms cost more than AirBnB rooms.
• rkalla 15y ago
  Why was the title of this post changed? It used to have the name "airbnb" in it earlier this morning, around 400 votes.
  • Omnipresent 15y ago
    Noticed that as well. changed because of bad PR perhaps?
  • spearo77 15y ago
    Is there any way to find out who changed the title? The submitter or admins?
    • Timothee 15y ago
      Most likely admins since, IIRC, a submitter has only a short time window to edit a submission.
      • Omnipresent 15y ago
        not cool.
        • Timothee 15y ago
          Well… I don't know. Sure, it's easy to think "look, YC changed the title because it gave a bad light to a YC company!" and that might be part of it. But the truth is that this story only got the spotlight here because it had AirBnB in the submission title, but the events it describes are not really specific to AirBnB. It could have happened through many other rental services. Also it's typically frowned upon changing the title of a post for the submission.
          • varunsrin 15y ago
            "But the truth is that this story only got the spotlight here because it had AirBnB in the submission title, but the events it describes are not really specific to AirBnB. It could have happened through many other rental services." That doesn't make the original title in any way inaccurate. Is this like saying, oh my Google apps account was compromised and all my business data was leaked - but really its unfair to post a story "My Google account was hacked", it could have happened to any online service. A poor excuse for deflecting what is obviously a problem with their service. Is YC simply going to moderate posts about their own startups at will? Especially when everything is, fact for fact, true?
• innes 15y ago
  Hmmm, somebody changed the title of this HN post from "AirBnB: Crimes committed against a host"...
  • jaredmck 15y ago
    yeah, i'm interested to see what the reasoning behind this change is. seems suspect.
• jaredmck 15y ago
  Why was the title of this submission changed? Was it because the old title mentioned AirBnB?
• bignoggins 15y ago
  My wife and I been traveling around the world staying at airbnb's for the last 4 months (www.shenventure.com is our travel blog). During our stay in Hong Kong, our host required a photocopy of our passport or driver's license. I think this was a clever deterrent on his part.
• chris1024 15y ago
  Is this real? It sounds like a fictional story.It's awfully flowery prose for someone who was just victimized and "laying in fetal position in her stairwell." Nowhere does it say this isn't fiction. Awful lot of buzz and no further response from the author? The journalist who commented on the blog who checked with SFPD was unable to find the case. So -- real or fiction? Someone call in SNOPES!
• varunsrin 15y ago
  Can someone please explain why the post name was changed? If it was to 'protect' AirBnB I find that in poor taste - this is a legitimate problem that occurred with the service, though it is likely not a specific problem. if the OP (foxit) requested or made this change, let us know.
• pabloiv 15y ago
  I really hope this incident doesn't break her spirit. As someone who's been shot at, beat up, robbed, held up, and still trusts people: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. That said, I also rent out my place through AirBnB. (http://www.airbnb.com/rooms/106355 http://www.airbnb.com/rooms/106355) I interview everyone who stays with me through Skype before confirming any reservation. AirBnB, has a very classy membership, and we've had great experiences with all our guests, but due diligence is still a must. Communicating with your potential guests is essential, as is reading between the lines. You should also make an effort to look at their face at least once before booking. Skype is perfect for this and AirBnB doesn't block it.
• hobbsmeter2 15y ago
  Why isn't the title the original one explicitly mentioning AirBnb? Bad PR for YC's portfolio company?
• njharman 15y ago
  Yeah, guess people are different. I would NEVER invite strangers to be in my house alone. Esp not with my stuff still there. I can't comprehend why anyone would. Can't understand how airbnb is popular service. But, it is. Like I said people are different...
• grannyg00se 15y ago
  "They ... found the passport, cash, credit card and grandmother's jewelry I had hidden inside. They found my birth certificate and social security card, which I believe they photocopied " Why would you leave your birth certificate and social security card behind when you have strangers occupying your home? Passports, ids, hard drives, diamonds .... these are all small but very important items that fit perfectly into a safety deposit box.
• watty 15y ago
  So anything remotely related to YC companies that shed good light are immediately frontpaged but something potentially dangerous that is bad PR gets title changed?
• gord 15y ago
  Heartbreaking to read this. Hang in there. It may help to think that a) these people are broken in some profound way, possibly from some early abuse b) this may not be directed at you personally, you did not deserve this, and this was not your fault I do think the AirBnB business model needs to take into account some kind of insurance cover, or set aside some percentage of funds to apply to help in the edge cases like this - so that some of the practicalities are taken care of [ such as cleaning the apartment, temporary accommodation ] giving the victim some breathing space to heal from this.
• prayag 15y ago
  AirBnb is not legally liable. They are however morally liable. Every company does legal. It's the moral compass that differentiates a company and their founders.
• losethos 15y ago
  Don't worry--God is just. If you don't think so, you are calling the Creator lazy. He doesn't like that and you might get shit just because, in that case. God wants praise. If and only if you do that, then you can call on God and He will rescue you from distress. He hates complaining. Read Numbers 11. God says, "say devour disgust deaf hears zeal clothe highest easy secretly Ostia absence getting mire remnants determined pleased student weight David's flows observing momentous AD pitiest combinations aspirate notices innumerably Information room title didst reclaiming doings persecuted she lying dared tax proficiency bears warranties temperance cleansest else imitation disguised duty effort insolently last boiled Simplicianus scholar ascending wanting burn amazed treachery "
• grandalf 15y ago
  I dunno this seems like a hoax to me. Something is fishy about it. I suspect it is a negative PR scam aimed at airbnb.
• mkramlich 15y ago
  The description of what happened, supposedly, is so weird, that I'd bet most likely this was an astroturfed (setup) incident. On the other hand, never underestimate just how stupid, mean, random, evil or rude a human can be. The more I live the greater depths you see. Also, even if this was a faked/fraudulent event, regardless, it would still be true that this kind of thing could naturally happen to anybody that makes their place available via AirBNB. It's statistically inevitable, given the nature of the service and the nature of humanity.
• andjones 15y ago
  First, I do not believe this is the place to make a stand about our trust in humanity. I believe that is best left to philosopher who has all of human discourse to use. My argument rests on the fact that Airbnb is moving closer to the average. Airbnb is moving closer to the average in the sense that they are attracting more people. After several million bookings, the general booking population will look more like the average in terms of disabilities, crime, unemployment, and many other imaginable statistics. Airbnb may not be quite there, but they are certainly growing closer. The question becomes, how to improve trust as Airbnb moves closer to the average? One such way is to implement trust systems. One such way is their existing feedback systems for people who use Airbnb. Hosts and renters alike can rate each other across several factors. Over time, one can develop a reputation that is accepted as a "I will do no evil". Heck, Airbnb could even reward these people with lower booking rates / larger cut as host. Trust systems are fine for those who have earned trust within the system. How does one bootstrap trust in an increasing paranoid system? There is a cost associated with this in the sense of gaining references or examining the social network of a first time renter. After such examination the responsibility relies upon some host to have an increasingly long conversation with a first time renter. This can be done before or after booking. However at the end of the conversation, one ultimately relies on their own judgement, which means the conversation can be gamed. In a future, Airbnb could work with outside systems. Airbnb could work with criminal databases, social information, along with associated other signals. All these approaches hint at a big brother approach where Airbnb is the ultimate judge and jury on who can host and/or rent. I don't see Airbnb being very popular in this approach. In the end, I think Airbnb has the responsibility to make things right in this situation. In the future I think they have the responsibility to make things right while their business model relies on the trust of their customers. Increase awareness and increase their own detection measures to the extent that they do not become big brother. Ultimately, I think things like this will continue to happen. However, the success (or failure) of the Airbnb billion+ business will depend on their response to such future events. Continue to make the host (the supply) happy and Airbnb will do well.
• sweetchar 15y ago
  How sad. I hope you'll be able to cope from this experience soon.