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Massachusetts couple suing eBay after employees harassed and stalked them
- crackercrews 5y ago> Unbeknownst to the Steiners, a group of Baugh’s employees had flown to Boston, rented two vehicles, and checked into the Ritz-Carlton Hotel, according to federal documents. Vandals staying at the Ritz? That's classy.
- pjc50 5y agoIf you're going to commit a crime on the company expense account, might as well go big.
- lostlogin 5y agoUsually their criminal clientele are despots and dictators. Sometimes the megalomaniacs even built a Ritz. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_Ritz_(Lisbon) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_Ritz_(Lisbon)
- nwatson 5y agoIn the sterile style of Le Corbusier. I'm suddenly back in Brasília.
- shrikant 5y agoNon-paywall / Europe-friendly (?) coverage: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/07/lawsuit-ebay-tried-to-terrorize-stalk-and-silence-couple-that-ran-news-site/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/07/lawsuit-ebay-tri...
- helsinkiandrew 5y ago> harassed by eBay I think it's safe to say that it was some rogue eBay employees doing the harassing rather than official eBay sanctioned harassment - but there must be something wrong in eBay communication/policy for this to have happened. What astounds me is how incompetent this all was - a combination of online and real world harassment is going to get law enforcement involved and the paper and online trail is going to get you found out.
- fgdhgjedfnngf 5y agoLow-level employees like the CEO who ordered it?
- Macha 5y agoEven if you believe the CEO's claims that he just wanted a counter PR campaign or something, the person orchestrating it ran a team named "Global Security and Resiliency" and ebay employees were having cars and hotels paid for. I think execs, hotels and cars go beyond "Oh isn't it terrible what these rogue employees did" and ebay shares some liability. If a company decides to dump toxic waste in the river because the CEO commented that he was unhappy with how much cleanup cost, they don't get to hide behind "oh, well the CEO was just frustrated with costs, its really some rogue maintenance manager and his employees decided to redirect the waste so we're not at all liable, just the employees"
- krageon 5y agoWhy is this safe to say? When does harassment change from "just some employees" to "official eBay sanctioned" (whatever that means). It's people making up eBay, and those people harassing. That makes it harassment by eBay.
- toofy 5y agoThis is wild. I can’t believe I haven’t heard anything about this until now. Some of this stuff is pretty dark. Mailing them spiders was bad enough but then mailing a married couple books on how to deal with the death of a spouse? jfc. But yeah, again, I’m surprised I hadn’t heard anything about this at all, I mean the firing of an ebay ceo for stuff like this, I feel either the story was buried, I just glanced over the articles, or it was just lost to the noise of other news (which, given the timing of other stuff happening this is probably most likely what happened.)
- cocoflunchy 5y agoIt was discussed here about a year ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23629056 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23629056
- coldpie 5y agoDefinitely not buried, it's come up on many tech news sites over the past couple years and has been discussed here. You just missed it, happens sometimes :)
- toofy 5y agoYeah, that’s what I’m thinking too. Wild though!!
- polytely 5y agoMakes you really wonder if this was an isolated incident or if there are other cases of these tactics that were successful in silencing the victims. Makes me think of the series DEVS where a big Silicon Valley company also uses their security force in a similar manner, I never thought that would be the part that was the most accurate. It's scary that this happened at Ebay, I dread to think what kind of shit a company with the funds of google or facebook could pull off.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- throw_m239339 5y agoIt's not uncommon for corporations to hire PI and target certain clients/customers/competitors ,for petty reasons or even to dig dirt on them, and it might count as stalking yes. One day when I'm retired I might tell my story. But this case is just one step above all that. Who knows what these employees and executives did to others before, I hardly believe this was an isolated case at eBay.
- dubdigidob 5y agoNobody cares about your story if you’re implying you’re a PI who does this.
- vorpalhex 5y agoI care, it sounds interesting.
- dubdigidob 5y agoThat’s a shame because they’ll never tell their totally real story of being a corporate shill PI until they retire.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
- disabled 5y agoNon-paywalled version: https://archive.is/m6KAI https://archive.is/m6KAI
- rPlayer6554 5y ago> With a full license plate number in hand from David’s pictures, the Natick police quickly started to unravel the conspiracy. > eBay’s team knew it was in trouble, according to their own messages "Ah yes let's stalk these people and just hope they don't decide to take down the license plate." I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people doing awful things have an awful plan, but that's pretty dumb.
- trutannus 5y agoI think the dumb plan comes with the territory. If you think stalking someone as a solution to a problem makes sense, chances are reasoning isn't a skill you've developed very much. You tend to need that skill if you're going to make it hard to catch you. Basically the kind of person who would come up with this kind of a solution is not the kind of person who could pull it off, and those who can pull it off tend not to come up with this kind of nonsense.
- tragomaskhalos 5y agoQuite apart from the obviously horrific and troubling aspects of this story, a more mundane question arises: how on earth did anyone at the company, even rogue actors, determine that the 'damage' done to eBay possibly justified the level of expense and organisation invested here in attempting to ruin this couple's lives?
- fredgrott 5y agonote legally using employee service sinthis manner is not rogue
- matheusmoreira 5y agoProbably not a rational decision. I bet the guy just felt insulted and disrespected by the articles and decided to escalate the situation in an attempt to rectify that.
- tartoran 5y agoMost definitely a bruised ego started all this
- PhasmaFelis 5y agoWhat baffles me is how many high-level people were sufficiently involved to face criminal charges. A manager, two senior managers, a director, and a senior director? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal#Charges_filed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal#Charges_...) I expect high-level execs to be amoral bastards, but I would not have expected quite so many to be this suicidally stupid all at the same time.
- everdrive 5y agoI'm sure this varies from company to company, but it's at least been my experience that a lot corporate executives see their jobs as vehicles for their egos. I'm not sure how to make this sound less trite, because the reality of the situation feels pretty shocking and alien to me. Why would anyone be _proud_ of having some status at some company? In my relatively short experience, it's quite common.
- cupcake-unicorn 5y agoThis is so terrifying. In this case they were "stupid" as in if they had done it in a more subtle way they could have easily isolated and discredited these victims via gaslighting. It does make me wonder how many politicians and CEOs like this have actually pulled things off. Here's a story how "Big Egg" "joked" about putting a hit on a vegan mayonnaise competitor: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/09/03/437213511/how-big-egg-tried-to-bring-down-little-mayo-and-failed https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/09/03/437213511/ho... It's disgusting to think that these guys will get out of jail pretty soon. I would rather hire someone accused of a more "serious" crime than these twisted ex ebay execs (depending what it was) because this is just pure twisted malice.
- unbalancedevh 5y ago> Here's a story how "Big Egg" "joked" about putting a hit on a vegan mayonnaise competitor And the Egg Board is run by the government! -- "The emails all came to light because the American Egg Board is technically part of the government. It's funded by the egg industry, but it's run by the U.S. Department of Agriculture."
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- MrRadar 5y agoWhile I do not condone any harassment, the American Egg Board's core complaint that "Just Mayo" isn't actually mayonnaise because it doesn't contain eggs (which are an essential ingredient of mayonnaise, to quote Wikipedia: "Mayonnaise is an emulsion of oil, egg yolk, and an acid, either vinegar or lemon juice") was actually true, and I agree with them that it's misleading to consumers for "Just Mayo" to market itself under that name (which implies it is mayonnaise, and not a similar "dressing" or "spread" like Miracle Whip). It seems like both parties are in the wrong here.
- asoneth 5y agoMembers of a (quasi?) government organization harassed a company and joked about paying someone to murder a CEO because they did not like how the company marketed its products. I don't disagree with the content of your statements, but debating whether the government organization's concerns had merit seems like it misses the point of this discussion.
- RalfWausE 5y agoSomething in me, somewhere in a dark and vengeful place of my soul, just wants to see the big companies burn down and let the ashes of the big tech giants be a warning memorial for future leaders that might don't make right.
- polytely 5y agoIt would be somewhat bearable if it would at least have consequences for the CEO, it's fucking wild that he gets to walk away from this with $57 million. Do these people have no shame at all? (no) >The investigation also found that former CEO Wenig had made “inappropriate communications” but did not have advance knowledge of the harassment and stalking. Wenig, who was not charged, was allowed to resign in September 2019 with a compensation package worth $57 million; the Steiner scandal was a “consideration” in his departure, the company has said. These morally bankrupt parasites somehow get in situations where they get rewarded when things go well and when things go catastrophically wrong under their watch. I wonder what you would have to do as a CEO to actually get fired without getting a huge sack of cash, murder someone in broad daylight?
- riknox 5y agoI think Wenig was also pushed out somewhat in relation to his opinion on the sale of eBay Classifieds - the rumour at the time was that he was very much against it while activist investors where trying to push it through.
- hef19898 5y agoWhich is obviously worse than harassing people using company ressources. /s
- coldcode 5y agoI always thought the CEO should be responsible for what their company did even if they were carefully screened from direct knowledge of stupid things. But obviously that rarely happens.
- sundvor 5y agoThat's truly one of the most bizarre accounts of harassment I've ever read. I hope they're well and truly compensated for their suffering.
- MrBuddyCasino 5y agoA good moment to contemplate whether or not the stock market paper-clip optimizers working at Big Tech should have the power to be the arbiter of truth and the judge of free speech on the internet.
- anm89 5y agoThink of what the children might read on facebook though. Free speech just isn't safe for regular folks who don't know what to make of all of this complicated information.
- concordDance 5y agoPoe's law?
- anm89 5y agoha, yes. I'll proudly take my downvotes.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y agoThere's a lot more at stake than free speech on the internet[0]. These people merciless ruin the lives of countless people all over the world to extract wealth, externalizing the costs of their business to us and actively working to prevent meaningful reform. [0] which, again, it is worth noting that free speech is what gives them the right to control what is on their platform.
- wpietri 5y agoFree speech on the internet is not in danger. It's never been easier or cheaper to set up a blog and publish to a global audience. Freedom of speech and freedom of the press do not include a right to use somebody else's press. Or the right to override somebody else's freedom of association. That's the inconvenient thing about rights: other people have them too.
- anm89 5y agoI hope they get at least 8 figures.
- bsenftner 5y agoThis is not isolated. This was directed by senior management. I believe such actions should pierce the corporate veil and render the entire c-suite liable for criminal charges. But I am also an experienced adult, and know their c-suite will have zero repercussions beyond the expense of a PR firm. Our society is unjust, unfair and unsustainable. The longer we allow this to continue, the greater the pain our society will experience in the future. We never left the Dark Ages, we are an immature childish and selfish species.
- notpachet 5y agoAs a counterpoint to Ebay's horribleness: back in the day at Etsy, we were very grateful for Ina's blog and her participation with the Etsy seller community. She was an important and respected voice in ecommerce, especially for small business owners who often struggled to choose between different online platforms. When she offered critique to a particular platform, it was always measured, well-reasoned, and fair. All the Etsians that I'm still in touch with were horrified and outraged when we learned of this story.
- wgerard 5y agoYeah, it was quite a trip to read this article as a former Etsian (for context to unaware readers: Etsy was a somewhat frequent target of the blog in question here, along with obviously eBay). I'm not going to pretend we didn't roll our eyes from time-to-time when a new article came out that seemed exaggerated, but the thought of retaliation never crossed anyone's mind. I'm pretty sure we would've been summarily fired if we had even made contact with Ina, let alone any of the psycho shit outlined here.
- h2odragon 5y agoRight, troublesome customers should just have their bank accounts quietly emptied; no need for all this publicity. https://boingboing.net/2019/02/17/etsy-sellers-say-their-bank-ac.html https://boingboing.net/2019/02/17/etsy-sellers-say-their-ban...
- jliptzin 5y agoHow does any of that serve as a counterpoint to eBay’s horribleness?
- KingOfCoders 5y agoI had left eBay some years before, but this would have made me leave the company with the CEO.
- dna_polymerase 5y ago> They provided additional harrowing details of their experience beyond those disclosed in court documents, which include copies of e-mails and text messages of eBay employees that federal prosecutors say show how they conspired to terrorize the Steiners. The couple met in the mid-1980s in Western Massachusetts at what was then called North Adams State College and is now called the Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts. ARRRGHHH. I want to know what happened, but for some reason the author decided I need to know their origin story. I completely zone out when this BS comes up. Give me signal. This noisy stuff is worthless to me. Keep the origin story for the eventual movie adaption or something. Why are news like this these days?
- mattl 5y agoBecause this is the Boston Globe and the couple is in Natick, MA. So people care about this stuff in a local newspaper.
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoThis is basically fear porn for the upscale parts of the Boston suburbs. People are interested because they get to self indulge in pearly clutching because even though these were nice people living somewhere nice this still happened to them. If this had happened in Fall River or Lawrence the globe probably would have covered it with a "look at these poors and their tragic plight" tone and the customers would have skimmed it, said "well at least nobody got beat up or shot" to themselves and then clicked the next article.
- Andrex 5y agoI appreciate the extra context. It's solid old-school journalism, which the world could use more of right now.
- bladewolf47 5y agoNon-paywalled link https://archive.fo/LlbIE https://archive.fo/LlbIE
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- datavirtue 5y agoTen years from now...same story but Amazon and multiple targets.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- dang 5y agoPast related threads: Couple harassed by eBay execs tell their story for the first time - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28021067 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28021067 - July 2021 (5 comments) eBay’s Cockroach Cult: The Story of a Stalking Scandal - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24598144 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24598144 - Sept 2020 (107 comments) Inside eBay’s bizarre campaign against a blog critic - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23629056 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23629056 - June 2020 (136 comments) Six eBay executives and employees charged over alleged cyberstalking campaign - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23529035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23529035 - June 2020 (207 comments)
- hoppyhoppy2 5y agoAlso: Former eBay employee gets 18 months in prison for cyberstalking campaign - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27976698 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27976698 - 6 days ago (77 comments)
- PhasmaFelis 5y agoWhat surprises me most about this case is that there were actual consequences. Usually this kind of shit ends with, at most, some low-level employees getting thrown under the bus, a manager or two "stepping down" with a generous severance package, and a quiet hush-money settlement to the victims. Here, multiple directors and senior managers were fired outright, slapped with criminal charges, and IIRC at least a couple of them are doing prison time as we speak.
- spoonjim 5y agoIf I was on this jury I would happily award $10 billion to send a message to every other psychopathic CEO.