13 ms·

This gives me hope for Canada, where I am, won't face too many issues even as we slowly start to tick up from the bottom since major reopening happened, allowin

by 0xTJ 5y ago

This gives me hope for Canada, where I am, won't face too many issues even as we slowly start to tick up from the bottom since major reopening happened, allowing indoor dining etc. In the last week, we've passed the UK in number of fully vaccinated people, but that's going to be slowing down as we start running of people who got their first dose during the big surge in shots here. Unfortunately, at 64% of the total population getting a first dose, the steep straight line in first doses suddenly curved to a much shallower straight line, to a rate similar to the current UK and US ones. I find the Our World In Data Coronavirus Pandemic (COVID-19) data (https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus) very interesting. It doesn't help that Alberta, our country's Texas, has decided to fully open everything and get rid of their requirements. Starting 2 weeks from now, you won't even have to self-isolate if you test positive for COVID-19.

goalieca 5y ago
> Starting 2 weeks from now, you won't even have to self-isolate if you test positive for COVID-19. This is a loaded question, but since covid is and will be endemic, when do we get on with our lives and start facing the mountains of other public health issues? It seems like our vaccination effort was extremely successful and had an amazing effect and there isn’t likely to be any radical new intervention for years to come.
- mint2 5y ago
  Isn’t it standard practice to set isolate if one has any highly contagious disease? Like the actual flu? Maybe it’s not a law but it sure is a sensical cultural norm and is just the polite thing to do as well.
  - ls612 5y ago
    Not for 10-14 days!! To the extent most people care they either stay home until they feel better or they try to power through it.
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      If you have actual flu then it wouldn't be uncommon to be ill for that long
      - ls612 5y ago
        For vaccinated people covid is not at all like the actual flu, it is very much a cold at worst. That is the kind of disease I and the poster above me were referencing
        bee_rider 5y ago
        For unvaccinated people it can be quite a bit worse than the flu. The degree of empathy afforded those folks seems to be a subject of active debate I guess...
        moron4hire 5y ago
        When this all started, there was a blase attitude towards obese people being at higher risk for severe cases from a lot of people. There was a lot of argument about whether being obese was a "choice", worth ignoring the class of people as it being "their own fault". Now, whatever you think about the obesity issue, I think we can definitely agree that there is no way 40% of the US adult population have some kind of complications preventing then from getting vaccinated. For the vast majority of people, not getting vaccinated is definitely a choice they made, and one that can easily be corrected. And let's be real, here. We all know who these people are. They're the same people who bitched about wearing masks and not being able to go get a haircut at their immediate convenience. They voted for Trump and they stormed the capital, then tried to call it a tourist visit. So no, I really don't have a lot of empathy for them, considering how little was afforded to me and my family.
        bee_rider 5y ago
        I agree that there are an awful lot of really unsympathetic people who haven't gotten vaccinated, but that seems like an unfortunate side-issue. We can ignore them all and say: sure, but there are still people who have compromised immune systems, etc, so we should try to minimize the spread for them (of course, people who have really compromised immune systems are also used to avoiding situations where they can get sick I guess, so this is a team project). Even if the majority of people who aren't vaccinated are annoying, the existence of good people is a sufficient condition to be careful. For me, this doesn't necessarily mean totally isolating, though -- just things like wearing a mask in stores, dining outside when I want to go to a restaurant, etc.
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    > Maybe it’s not a law but it sure is a sensical cultural norm and is just the polite thing to do as well. OP is clearly talking about Alberta changing the laws about self-isolation. At some point, we are going to have to transition to using the same 'cultural norm' framework in dealing with Covid that we do with the flu.
    - dcolkitt 5y ago
      Alternatively we could take this as a chance to re-frame some of the dysfunctional pre-existing cultural norms around respiratory infection. Especially the widespread notion that only wimps and slackers use sick days.
    - moistly 5y ago
      > At some point, we are going to have to transition to using the same 'cultural norm' framework in dealing with Covid that we do with the flu. Or we could do much better and transition to the Asian cultural norm and wear a g.d. mask when sick, and preferentially stay t.f. home when ill. Spreading disease is a stupid, stupid norm in our culture.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    At least where I've lived, no, the standard practice is to "work through" the illness and give it to everyone you come in contact with while talking about how it's no big deal because your immune system is strong and you aren't a pussy.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
      The UK has, or had a strong culture of "it's just a cold, I'm actually fine, I'm Ok to work today, really". I am hoping that this bad habit has died unmourned during the COVID pandemic. I have no intention of of commuting to an office when I have a cold, and every intention of telling others who have one to go home already.
  - frumper 5y ago
    Some kids NEVER miss a day of school. I've known many people proud of that. I've seen that attitude in adults as well.
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      My school actually used to give out awards for it, which always used to annoy me as I generally had 100% attendance excepting 1 or 2 days off for illness each year.
- brundolf 5y ago
  Is it inconceivable that we could have an "updated" RNA vaccine for the new variant in a matter of months? We get a new flu shot every year
- anyonecancode 5y ago
  I'd imagine not too long after safe and effective vaccines are authorized for children under 12. At that point the majority of those who actively want protection will be able to get it. This is not the same as saying _all_ who want protection will get it, since no vaccine is 100% effective, and some people who would like to be vaccinated will not be able to because of health conditions or other circumstances, but I suspect society as a whole will decide "close enough." I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that -- I think the number of "people who want protection but can't get it" will be uncomfortably large -- but this is my guess of when society as a whole will decide to move on. Honestly, I think this means the future looks like the present, but more so. The places that will be hit the hardest will be more working class and in places that under invest in health and welfare. That's already the current trend, certainly in the US -- look at where medicaid expansion following the ACA has and hasn't happened, for instance, and who has access to decent health care and who doesn't. In some ways I think we're lurching back to previous centuries, where diseases like cholera, dysentry, typhus, etc were endemic, and could certainly affect the wealthy and professional classes, but were primarily scourges of the working class.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - timr 5y ago
    > I'd imagine not too long after safe and effective vaccines are authorized for children under 12. Children are at exceptionally low risk from Covid. It's time to stop with fear, uncertainty and doubt, and deal with facts. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w In the US, 340 children under 17 have died from Covid. Total. During the same period, 187 have died from the flu, and over 51,000 children have died from all causes: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Se... The reason the vaccines aren't being approved for children is that there is compelling evidence that children are at greater risk from the vaccines than the virus. This is why (for example) approval for vaccination of children and teenagers is split across Europe, and the UK has restricted access to only children with known vulnerabilities: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-19/u-k-to-give-covid-19-vaccines-only-to-most-vulnerable-children https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-19/u-k-to-gi... https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/european-countries-evenly-split-covid-jabs-teenagers https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/european-countries... > At that point the majority of those who actively want protection will be able to get it. This is less about what the children want, and more about anxious adults want, and that is unconscionable. Kids are largely at the mercy of their parents, so it's essential that the regulatory bodies tread carefully on this issue. We don't need kids to be vaccinated to reduce Covid to a manageable seasonal illness on par with the flu.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > when do we get on with our lives and start facing the mountains of other public health issues? We (or at least, public health authorities; indiviudal citizens whose attention doesn't drop below the top story in the news are a different story)... haven't stopped facing the mountains of other public health issues.
- octodog 5y ago
  At some point we will "get on with our lives" but that doesn't mean that we will be able to ignore COVID-19. As with any highly infectious and dangerous disease there will still be a public health response to outbreaks. The hope is that with a high proportion of people vaccinated we won't see many outbreaks. For example, in Australia we have a 92-94% vaccination rate against measles (differs slightly by state) with the disease considered eliminated in 2014 [0]. Even still, in 2019 there was a small outbreak in Western Australia that lead to a big contact tracing effort and some forced isolation/quarantine of close contacts [1]. [0] https://www.health.gov.au/health-topics/immunisation/childhood-immunisation-coverage https://www.health.gov.au/health-topics/immunisation/childho... [1] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-25/inside-the-operation-to-track-and-contain-wa-measles-outbreak/11637502 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-25/inside-the-operation-...
neither_color 5y ago
Since when is Texas a pejorative? By itself it would be a world top-15 economy, and its pandemic performance was not an outlier or exceptional. If anything it, along with Florida, demonstrated that extremely strict lockdowns don't correlate to better outcomes. Nothing like Alberta.
- cvwright 5y ago
  I think it's more that they both have cowboys. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calgary_Stampede https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calgary_Stampede
- michaelt 5y ago
  Who said Texas was a pejorative?
  - neither_color 5y ago
    The derisive comparison to Alberta implies that Alberta is making a terrible mistake that somehow Texas made.
    - spideymans 5y ago
      Both Alberta and Texas are very conservative, have a lot of anti-vaxxers, produce oil, and are home to cowboys. That’s the extent of the analogy.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- nawgz 5y ago
  Don't you think that both of these very red states are likely to have fudged the data the most out of anyone? I have seen that the numbers aren't so much worse than other places but I struggle to believe the data coming from these places. Additionally, pandemic aside, it should be clear that their policies are rooted entirely in oligarchy and have no concern for the population or its health (short- or long-term), their racism and misogyny are reaching to very regressive places (abortion bill), and their lack of regulation regularly leads to comical failures of infrastructure.
908B64B197 5y ago
> It doesn't help that Alberta, our country's Texas, has decided to fully open everything and get rid of their requirements. Starting 2 weeks from now, you won't even have to self-isolate if you test positive for COVID-19. Just close down the border with them.
aquadrop 5y ago
When Texas removed mask mandate in March there were such claims as well ("it will be so bad, Texas is doomed"), but nothing happened and cases continued to go down as in rest of the country.

by 0xTJ 5y ago

goalieca 5y ago

> Starting 2 weeks from now, you won't even have to self-isolate if you test positive for COVID-19. This is a loaded question, but since covid is and will be endemic, when do we get on with our lives and start facing the mountains of other public health issues? It seems like our vaccination effort was extremely successful and had an amazing effect and there isn’t likely to be any radical new intervention for years to come.

mint2 5y ago
Isn’t it standard practice to set isolate if one has any highly contagious disease? Like the actual flu? Maybe it’s not a law but it sure is a sensical cultural norm and is just the polite thing to do as well.
- ls612 5y ago
  Not for 10-14 days!! To the extent most people care they either stay home until they feel better or they try to power through it.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    If you have actual flu then it wouldn't be uncommon to be ill for that long
    - ls612 5y ago
      For vaccinated people covid is not at all like the actual flu, it is very much a cold at worst. That is the kind of disease I and the poster above me were referencing
      - bee_rider 5y ago
        For unvaccinated people it can be quite a bit worse than the flu. The degree of empathy afforded those folks seems to be a subject of active debate I guess...
        moron4hire 5y ago
        When this all started, there was a blase attitude towards obese people being at higher risk for severe cases from a lot of people. There was a lot of argument about whether being obese was a "choice", worth ignoring the class of people as it being "their own fault". Now, whatever you think about the obesity issue, I think we can definitely agree that there is no way 40% of the US adult population have some kind of complications preventing then from getting vaccinated. For the vast majority of people, not getting vaccinated is definitely a choice they made, and one that can easily be corrected. And let's be real, here. We all know who these people are. They're the same people who bitched about wearing masks and not being able to go get a haircut at their immediate convenience. They voted for Trump and they stormed the capital, then tried to call it a tourist visit. So no, I really don't have a lot of empathy for them, considering how little was afforded to me and my family.
        bee_rider 5y ago
        I agree that there are an awful lot of really unsympathetic people who haven't gotten vaccinated, but that seems like an unfortunate side-issue. We can ignore them all and say: sure, but there are still people who have compromised immune systems, etc, so we should try to minimize the spread for them (of course, people who have really compromised immune systems are also used to avoiding situations where they can get sick I guess, so this is a team project). Even if the majority of people who aren't vaccinated are annoying, the existence of good people is a sufficient condition to be careful. For me, this doesn't necessarily mean totally isolating, though -- just things like wearing a mask in stores, dining outside when I want to go to a restaurant, etc.
- dahfizz 5y ago
  > Maybe it’s not a law but it sure is a sensical cultural norm and is just the polite thing to do as well. OP is clearly talking about Alberta changing the laws about self-isolation. At some point, we are going to have to transition to using the same 'cultural norm' framework in dealing with Covid that we do with the flu.
  - dcolkitt 5y ago
    Alternatively we could take this as a chance to re-frame some of the dysfunctional pre-existing cultural norms around respiratory infection. Especially the widespread notion that only wimps and slackers use sick days.
  - moistly 5y ago
    > At some point, we are going to have to transition to using the same 'cultural norm' framework in dealing with Covid that we do with the flu. Or we could do much better and transition to the Asian cultural norm and wear a g.d. mask when sick, and preferentially stay t.f. home when ill. Spreading disease is a stupid, stupid norm in our culture.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  At least where I've lived, no, the standard practice is to "work through" the illness and give it to everyone you come in contact with while talking about how it's no big deal because your immune system is strong and you aren't a pussy.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    The UK has, or had a strong culture of "it's just a cold, I'm actually fine, I'm Ok to work today, really". I am hoping that this bad habit has died unmourned during the COVID pandemic. I have no intention of of commuting to an office when I have a cold, and every intention of telling others who have one to go home already.
- frumper 5y ago
  Some kids NEVER miss a day of school. I've known many people proud of that. I've seen that attitude in adults as well.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    My school actually used to give out awards for it, which always used to annoy me as I generally had 100% attendance excepting 1 or 2 days off for illness each year.
brundolf 5y ago
Is it inconceivable that we could have an "updated" RNA vaccine for the new variant in a matter of months? We get a new flu shot every year
anyonecancode 5y ago
I'd imagine not too long after safe and effective vaccines are authorized for children under 12. At that point the majority of those who actively want protection will be able to get it. This is not the same as saying _all_ who want protection will get it, since no vaccine is 100% effective, and some people who would like to be vaccinated will not be able to because of health conditions or other circumstances, but I suspect society as a whole will decide "close enough." I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that -- I think the number of "people who want protection but can't get it" will be uncomfortably large -- but this is my guess of when society as a whole will decide to move on. Honestly, I think this means the future looks like the present, but more so. The places that will be hit the hardest will be more working class and in places that under invest in health and welfare. That's already the current trend, certainly in the US -- look at where medicaid expansion following the ACA has and hasn't happened, for instance, and who has access to decent health care and who doesn't. In some ways I think we're lurching back to previous centuries, where diseases like cholera, dysentry, typhus, etc were endemic, and could certainly affect the wealthy and professional classes, but were primarily scourges of the working class.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- timr 5y ago
  > I'd imagine not too long after safe and effective vaccines are authorized for children under 12. Children are at exceptionally low risk from Covid. It's time to stop with fear, uncertainty and doubt, and deal with facts. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w In the US, 340 children under 17 have died from Covid. Total. During the same period, 187 have died from the flu, and over 51,000 children have died from all causes: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Se... The reason the vaccines aren't being approved for children is that there is compelling evidence that children are at greater risk from the vaccines than the virus. This is why (for example) approval for vaccination of children and teenagers is split across Europe, and the UK has restricted access to only children with known vulnerabilities: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-19/u-k-to-give-covid-19-vaccines-only-to-most-vulnerable-children https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-19/u-k-to-gi... https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/european-countries-evenly-split-covid-jabs-teenagers https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/european-countries... > At that point the majority of those who actively want protection will be able to get it. This is less about what the children want, and more about anxious adults want, and that is unconscionable. Kids are largely at the mercy of their parents, so it's essential that the regulatory bodies tread carefully on this issue. We don't need kids to be vaccinated to reduce Covid to a manageable seasonal illness on par with the flu.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> when do we get on with our lives and start facing the mountains of other public health issues? We (or at least, public health authorities; indiviudal citizens whose attention doesn't drop below the top story in the news are a different story)... haven't stopped facing the mountains of other public health issues.
octodog 5y ago
At some point we will "get on with our lives" but that doesn't mean that we will be able to ignore COVID-19. As with any highly infectious and dangerous disease there will still be a public health response to outbreaks. The hope is that with a high proportion of people vaccinated we won't see many outbreaks. For example, in Australia we have a 92-94% vaccination rate against measles (differs slightly by state) with the disease considered eliminated in 2014 [0]. Even still, in 2019 there was a small outbreak in Western Australia that lead to a big contact tracing effort and some forced isolation/quarantine of close contacts [1]. [0] https://www.health.gov.au/health-topics/immunisation/childhood-immunisation-coverage https://www.health.gov.au/health-topics/immunisation/childho... [1] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-25/inside-the-operation-to-track-and-contain-wa-measles-outbreak/11637502 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-25/inside-the-operation-...

neither_color 5y ago

Since when is Texas a pejorative? By itself it would be a world top-15 economy, and its pandemic performance was not an outlier or exceptional. If anything it, along with Florida, demonstrated that extremely strict lockdowns don't correlate to better outcomes. Nothing like Alberta.

cvwright 5y ago
I think it's more that they both have cowboys. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calgary_Stampede https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calgary_Stampede
michaelt 5y ago
Who said Texas was a pejorative?
- neither_color 5y ago
  The derisive comparison to Alberta implies that Alberta is making a terrible mistake that somehow Texas made.
  - spideymans 5y ago
    Both Alberta and Texas are very conservative, have a lot of anti-vaxxers, produce oil, and are home to cowboys. That’s the extent of the analogy.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
nawgz 5y ago
Don't you think that both of these very red states are likely to have fudged the data the most out of anyone? I have seen that the numbers aren't so much worse than other places but I struggle to believe the data coming from these places. Additionally, pandemic aside, it should be clear that their policies are rooted entirely in oligarchy and have no concern for the population or its health (short- or long-term), their racism and misogyny are reaching to very regressive places (abortion bill), and their lack of regulation regularly leads to comical failures of infrastructure.

908B64B197 5y ago

> It doesn't help that Alberta, our country's Texas, has decided to fully open everything and get rid of their requirements. Starting 2 weeks from now, you won't even have to self-isolate if you test positive for COVID-19. Just close down the border with them.

aquadrop 5y ago

When Texas removed mask mandate in March there were such claims as well ("it will be so bad, Texas is doomed"), but nothing happened and cases continued to go down as in rest of the country.