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Police can get your data – even if you aren’t suspected of a crime
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y agoYou have no rights in front of a cop. You only have rights in front of a judge. A cop can break every single one of your rights as they want, including kill you. It's frankly the most absurd system to ever exist. Your rights should exist well before it makes it to court (if you want to wait that long...if you get a court date). This whole system that cops can escalate your punishment and practically ruin your life financially is the greatest injustice in criminal justice system of the US. But talk of worker protections and limiting police powers is evil rhetoric here among the actual ruling class.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- shrimp_emoji 5y ago>It's frankly the most absurd system to ever exist. https://youtu.be/J7MYlRzLqD0?t=103 https://youtu.be/J7MYlRzLqD0?t=103
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y agoLol, well at least you didn't have to worry about figuring out how you'd pay your bills after you become exonerated.
- infogulch 5y agohttps://youtube.com/c/AuditTheAudit https://youtube.com/c/AuditTheAudit
- what-the-grump 5y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqo5RYOp4nQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqo5RYOp4nQ
- joelbondurant 5y agoTungsten core bullets fix USA thugs.
- artificialLimbs 5y agoFun (mildly related) story - a couple months ago I was pulled over for speeding. I had a very good reason to be doing so IMO (medical). The cop took my license and when he came back to the car said “Mr artificialLimbs, I can see that you don’t like cops. It says that when I pull up your records”. 1.)I have no idea why they think this, especially since I donate to the state troopers every year. I may cancel that subscription… 2.)WTF I live in the U.S. If this profiling doesn’t directly violate laws, it certainly violates the spirit of “All men are created equal”. I am considering filing FOIA for video and all records pertaining to myself to find out exactly what he meant, and then writing congresscritters. *edit spelling
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- kypro 5y agoThis really highlights how incorrect the “nothing to fear, nothing to hide” argument is. With enough data anything we say or do which someone with authority doesn’t like can be used against us, either directly as a means to criminalise us or indirectly as a motive to find some reason to criminalise us.
- Robelius 5y agoAnything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. They’re explicit in saying how they will use information.
- SilasX 5y agoThat statement is the Miranda warning and refers to statements made during custodial interrogation. But yes, it does feel eerily true in general now.
- cryptonector 5y agoIt's also true of statements made prior to custodial interrogation, it's just that the police don't have to read you your Miranda warning prior to taking you into custody. This means that you have to be super careful when speaking to the police at all. And by super careful I meant: don't. Watch professor James Duane's videos on the topic, and Don't Talk to Police. Also, if arrested, you can't just stay quiet: since Salinas v. Texas the defendant must actually invoke their 5th amendment right to keep quiet before actually keeping quiet, otherwise their keeping quiet... can be used against them in a court of law. You'll learn that from watching professor Duane's videos.
- legrande 5y ago> You might get swept up in one just because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time or looked up the wrong search term And who gets to decide what a 'wrong' search term is? What if I wanted to figure out how nitrate bombs were made just out of plain intellectual curiosity, and not for the purposes of harming others? And for sensitive search terms, I use Tor+DuckDuckGo and call it a day. Now and then I do that if looking up sensitive topics / health information like `how to cure hemorrhoids` or sexual health issues like ED. I would never use Google for topics like that!
- karencarits 5y agoRegarding Google and sensitive topics; why not? I often search on a lot of topics that could be sensitive but it would be really hard to separate pure curiosity from something serious
- darig 5y agoOK, Karen. Time for jail.
- kian 5y agoIf you're statistically discriminating, it doesn't matter if you're correct in any particular case - just that on average, you're more right than wrong. Just because you searched for heart issues doesn't mean you have them, but if people who do are more likely to search about them, then if an insurance company treats all people who search for this as if they are more likely to have it and raise their rates accordingly, they will profit.
- bigiain 5y ago> it would be really hard to separate pure curiosity from something serious Not for a prosecutor. Anything at all that could be used to paint you in a bad light? "serious".
- adevx 5y agoWhen I had to comply with a recent data request for a police investigation I had to provide all data of anyone who had favoured/bookmarked a certain profile. I realized just how easily a person's data can end up in an active investigation.
- intricatedetail 5y agoHow do you know you had to? Companies send such data out of fear. Many jurisdiction require prosecutor or judge to sign request. Giving police data just like that may be against the law. One of reasons small websites die, because they have no money for legal advice.
- adevx 5y agoIt was a signed request by a prosecutor after having been quizzed about what data they could get. I would never freely hand over such data.
- rhizome 5y agoAre you sure "a signed request by a prosecutor" was enough to require you to hand over the data?
- cyphertruck 5y agoThat's not a warrant signed by a judge. I'm not judging you but I want to clarify, this was merely a request from a prosecutor, with no warrant covering it? Sounds like a violation of 18 U.S. Code § 242. Deprivation of rights under color of law - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/242 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/242 and 18 U.S. Code § 241. Conspiracy against rights - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/241 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/241
- dragonwriter 5y ago> I'm not judging you but I want to clarify, this was merely a request from a prosecutor, with no warrant covering it? Sounds something like a subpoena, not a request; these are (in many systems) issued and signed by attorneys, not judges. Now, if there is a legal argument that the material is not subject to subpoena, in the US a motion to quash is available, and something similar may be available in other systems, but they aren’t mere requests, they are obligatory unless successfully quashed.
- kylehotchkiss 5y agoiCloud backups are a treasure chest that Apple hands over to law enforcement more easily than people assume. Just backup to your laptop. If there’s a legal need to access your devices, you’ll have the warrant served to you directly. Also Tresorit offers end to end encrypted cloud storage. If you’re storing a lot of sensitive documents like ID scans, account statements, medical paperwork, it’s worth a consideration. Then if your iCloud storage has to be handed over, at least you maintain some privacy in those matters.
- ronnier 5y agohttps://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 Seems some of iCloud is end-to-end encrypted. These features and their data are transmitted and stored in iCloud using end-to-end encryption: * Apple Card transactions * Home data * Health data * iCloud Keychain * Maps Favorites, Collections and search history * Memoji * Payment information * QuickType Keyboard learned vocabulary * Safari History and iCloud Tabs * Screen Time * Siri information * Wi-Fi passwords * W1 and H1 Bluetooth keys Things that are not e2e: photos, iMessage, Notes, Mail, Contacts, and others. I'm wondering, are the Safari cookies e2e encrypted?
- novok 5y agoSuch a bizarre swiss cheese approach to E2E isn't it?
- kylehotchkiss 5y agohttps://blog.elcomsoft.com/2021/01/apple-scraps-end-to-end-encryption-of-icloud-backups/ https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2021/01/apple-scraps-end-to-end-e... Interestingly apple was planning end to end encryption of backups but changed their minds on the matter.
- ronnier 5y agoSo is the browsing history not e2e encrypted in the backup?
- yawaworht1978 5y agoThis depends heavily on the country. Some countries severely restrict what police can access,in former or current socialist/communist countries the people expect nothing less than all data available to the government and in the US the people believe somebody safeguards their data and privacy, this is almost ironic when you think about how many google , Facebook etc are out there, not to mention agencies like NSA doing mega data collection wherever they can. Doesn't matter much on an individual basis, the governments will always find a way to get what they're looking for once they seriously target you.
- tomohawk 5y ago1) its not your data if it is not on equipment you own 2) this is the cost of free services
- malwarebytess 5y agoAnd both of these things are wrong and should be changed. We don't need to be beholden to the disastrous third-party legal doctrine.
- tomohawk 5y agoJust because they're wrong and should be changed doesn't mean that they are not true now. If you don't like it, then these are the fundamental things that need to be reconsidered.
- bigiain 5y agoIt _can_ be "not true" with a little effort. I have encrypted files stored on Dropbox, S3, GoogleDrive, and cloud hosted virtual servers. That is 100% "my data" (only the GoogleDrive is a free service, but the technique applies anyway. (I do agree with malwarebytess about the absurdity of the third-party legal doctrine applying to 21st century use cases like cell phone backups and cloud email and GPS location data from whatever random apps people have installed - stuff which was unimaginable when they gutted the 4th amendment in 1976...)
- TroisM 5y agoAnd they can request, without a warrant, all of your emails older then 6 months if stored in the cloud: https://www.dailydot.com/irl/police-surveillance/ https://www.dailydot.com/irl/police-surveillance/
- LdSGSgvupDV 5y agoAre there any services that add a layer on top of google/apple/... services for encryption? Something like put a veracrypt/whatever container in google drive and use another open source web as entrance or bundle these services (google/apple/...) as encrypted ceph cluster which means every company only owns part of the encrypted data. Another approach, host your data in full disk encryption (LUKS/...) in open source services (NextCloud/... you could find awesome self-hosted services on github) and put the password into a RAM USB with UPS. It could be sealed forever by turning off the power of RAM USB. The only problem here is that there is no commercial RAM USB.
- lilboss 5y agoBgg