10 ms·

Walmart releases more affordable analog insulin

197 points by dsaavy 5y ago

changoplatanero 5y ago
will other producers reduce their prices too now?
- cogman10 5y ago
  Likely yes. They either do that or lose a large amount of income. They have been banking on nothing cheaper on the market. Also, they are likely to sue walmart for whatever BS reason. But, walmart probably figures they can get through it unscathed.
okareaman 5y ago
Walmart knows it's customers: They sell vast quantities of candy, sugar drinks and food with added sugar, and now insulin.
- xeromal 5y ago
  We act like humans have no self-control or responsibility. lol
  - catillac 5y ago
    It’s not as simple as all of that. With modern marketing and ads, the deck is very much stacked against us.
    - IncRnd 5y ago
      Seeing ads doesn't force you to make poor food choices.
      - criddell 5y ago
        Why do you think they advertise?
        IncRnd 5y ago
        Of course ads exist to increase product sales. That doesn't mean that people are unable to actually look at the product label and make informed choices. Ads don't make you do anything. Thinking that they do is a crutch.
        NoSorryCannot 5y ago
        If advertising works on average, then there is a discussion about ethics that is worth having. Falling back on individual responsibility might be popular but it is absolutely a cop out. We're playing a numbers game with public health in an adversarial environment. Relying absolutely on what individuals could or should do isn't going to help us win that game.
        IncRnd 5y ago
        Why do you say that individual responsibility is a cop out? People can read the labels and ingredients on a package of food. This is true even for those people who never question why they are purchasing food in boxes instead of actual food.
        NoSorryCannot 5y ago
        It's a cop out to defer to individual responsibility and ignore all the other tools that are available to improve public health. We know that there's a rich corpus of psychological research that provides tools that we know can be used to affect behavior and choices. It's being used to sell us things that are bad for us and that same research should be used to inform regulation policy and public health communications.
        5y ago
  - comeonseriously 5y ago
    That's not all there is to the story either. Processed food is generally cheaper in the sense of time and money. Most of us HNers are blessed with great salaries and stable (9-5) work. Millions of consumer, of course, are not.
  - rafale 5y ago
    I would agree with you if we had a decent education system. I bet the amount of high school students that know how to read and make sense ilof a nutrition facts label is staggering low. Not that those labels are even needed if they were taught to stay away from fast food, sugar drinks and highly processed food. But they are not. There is also the issue of money, because junk food is usually more calorie dense and cheaper per calorie than healthy food. But government corn subsidies are to blame for that I guess.
  - nexuist 5y ago
    Self control is irrelevant when your financial situation prevents you from having the opportunity to make choices.
    - xeromal 5y ago
      I grew up poor in Appalachia in methsville, georgia and I managed to develop an extremely cheap diet of lentils, oats, cheap chicken, and spinach/broccoli at 16 years old. I definitely understand the allure of cheap, processed foods but it's from willful decisions.
      - kevingadd 5y ago
        The things you describe aren't all cheap in every part of the country. Some parts of the country actually have somewhat limited access to fresh vegetables/meat or have to pay a premium for it.
        ev1 5y ago
        +1 to this, I'd have to go out of my way, significantly, to find those items for cheap, while fast food is $3 for a calorie-dense burger and easily accessible. Of course, there are nearby supermarkets too, but you'll be paying like $10/lb for raw chicken and everything is "organic"
        refurb 5y ago
        You’re upset that you have to make healthy choices?
        ev1 5y ago
        I'm kind of using I in third person - it's cheaper, more accessible, easier, faster to get unhealthy food. For many people it is not possible or feasible to make those healthy choices. For example, extensive - both in time and money - travel time to cheaper supermarkets (vs something like Whole Foods) to be able to afford fresh ingredients. There's also the part where working multiple jobs might make it difficult to make it to a proper market before they close, while fast food is nearly universal and available all day and all night.
  - andrewzah 5y ago
    Quite a lot of people do lack self control and it’s controversial to state this. Also, it is time consuming to read every single label on food that one buys. The labels on the front are often misleading. I frequently work at state fairs & arts and crafts festivals on the east coast. The amount of very overweight and obese people is simply astounding. About half of one coke is the average adult’s recommended sugar intake. I know more people than I’d like who have at least one soda every day, and some who have multiple every day. Nearly everything in our supermarkets has a lot of sugar. Including common things like bread and pasta sauce. Last time I checked at publix, I only found -one- type of bread that didn’t have a lot of sugar in it. Finding a protein bar without tons of sugar was rather difficult. Etc. Combine this with sitting all day + driving everywhere and we’ve got a huge problem.
    - gruez 5y ago
      >Also, it is time consuming to read every single label on food that one buys. The labels on the front are often misleading. But only in the short term, right? Once you figured out what products are healthy and switched to them, you can rely on prior memory. It's not like you have to look at the labels of every item you're buying for years.
      - eropple 5y ago
        Ingredients change; how often are you checking and updating what you know? Availability changes; what brand is #2 and #3 on your list? Or the time in your day you have to prepare food may suddenly shrink; do you then have the time and spare cognitive cycles to make a good decision under stress? (You probably don't. Not, like, you specifically, but in aggregate.) We make it difficult on purpose to eat healthily in the West because eating less healthily is more profitable. I eat pretty healthy, though I also like cheeseburgers so I'm not thin. But I make a very healthy income and have the time, and the resources, and the education to actually have the time and executive function to have an opinion about ingredients in food. It is difficult for me to know these things, let alone to in all cases exert the self-control to act on them--and I make north of five times the median personal income of the United States with which to do it. I mean, let's think for a second. Blame an Amazon picker or a Wal-Mart cashier or blame the corporate entity with a marketing department designed to overwhelm your attention and to induce the specific action they test and refine for? Gosh. I wonder.
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  - jabroni_salad 5y ago
    Reading about all the tricks marketers use to get us to think we need to buy shit we do not need, and honestly I do wonder if self control is an illusion.
    - cwkoss 5y ago
      I wonder if there are studies looking at whether exposure to advertisements affects self control. I would imagine that certain advertisements reliably decrease self control (as that is their intent). Would be interesting to have data to back this hypothesis up though.
    - mcguire 5y ago
      Given that the tech industry is built around making those advertising tricks more effective....
  - JohnWhigham 5y ago
    At scale though, it's pretty evident that people don't have either of these with respect to their health. Is this an indictment on humanity as a whole, or someone else? Ultimately the answer doesn't matter because when something like this is this widespread, it has serious problems for society as a whole. Do we want to continue to put up our noses at the unwashed masses (which doesn't help anybody or anything), or do we want to do something about it and potentially help out society and start to get those who have erred on the right path?
    - xeromal 5y ago
      I appreciate this take and I agree with you to an extent. Humanity benefits when we help each other, but I'm not sure how you pull this off. Do we need intelligence licenses that allow to you to purchase unhealthy foods?
  - not_math 5y ago
    Before 18 (or 21, or 16) it's debatable that humans have the capacity to self-control, or make their own decisions understanding the effect on themselves and those surrounding them. I'm not saying that they're completely oblivious, but there is a reason why the law is not applied in the same way for children (non-adults). Now, it's a mix of societal and economical (and more) that's making people eat a certain way. Changing your eating behavior can be difficult, especially if you've eaten a certain way for the past 16-18 years. I'm not saying it's Walmart's fault, but it's also not just an individual willingness to change that's in play here. The United States clearly has a problem of obesity, which is related to Type 2 diabetes.
  - jakeinspace 5y ago
    If you mean to say that we should take a libertarian approach and not try to use government for nudging society towards healthier eating and lifestyle standards, you might as well say that we should give up on the health of the US. Because I have 0 faith in purely individual or "grass-roots" societal change fixing our obesity crisis, given the path we're on.
- comeonseriously 5y ago
  > They sell vast quantities of candy, sugar drinks and food with added sugar As do all but specialized grocery stores because this is the majority of food produced. How about we go after the food producers instead? Or the subsidies that enable this?
  - criddell 5y ago
    How much of an impact do the subsidies have?
    - kleer001 5y ago
      A fair bit. Some facts over here : https://economics21.org/html/sugar-subsidies-are-bitter-deal-american-consumers-1007.html https://economics21.org/html/sugar-subsidies-are-bitter-deal... and of course the true scandal of sugar (IMHO the war crime of anti-science) https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074/50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074...
      - gruez 5y ago
        That doesn't really answer the question. There's a lot of subsidies going around, but how much difference does it make to foods at the checkout? Does [junk food item] being 10% more expensive cause a meaningful drop in consumption?
        kleer001 5y ago
        > That doesn't really answer the question. Sure it does. Maybe not to 5 decimal places, but you're not going to get that on an internet forum of non-specialists. You want more? I'm sure there's a dissertation from an economics student or a master's thesis out there for your digestion.
    - connicpu 5y ago
      Corn subsidies have a huge impact on the price of high fructose corn syrup, corn is the US's most subsidized crop
chrsig 5y ago
Ah, walmart. The cause of, and solution to type II diabetes.
- renewiltord 5y ago
  It is well known that Sam Walton held people's mouths open and poured refined sugar into their gullets. He then tied them down to their beds so they could not exercise.
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  I have shopped at Wal-Mart for groceries many times and the food is no better or worse than any other supermarket. There are perfectly good fresh vegetables and meats etc, alongside the chips and soda you find ay every other store.
  - akimball 5y ago
    In many places the only source of organic produce (or the cheapest source) is walmart
  - deregulateMed 5y ago
    Yep. My cart looks different than most people's at Walmart. Fresh food, nothing frozen outside occasional vegetables. You can be a picture of health shopping at Walmart, just as you can be a danger to yourself shopping at whole foods.
- dawnerd 5y ago
  This more benefits people with type 1. It’s not really a solution to type 2 at all.
rubyn00bie 5y ago
This is good because it will actually help people... ... but wow, just woooow. It's so incredibly depressing that I'm calling this "good." Sometimes the sheer insanity of the United States health care system overwhelms me. The fact insulin isn't a few dollars or free is beyond disheartening. It's like the system itself saying the Sackler's just didn't have enough imagination exploiting people, and destroying lives, for profit. "Oh? You don't need to get them addicted if they'll die without it... silly, Sacklers. #BusinessMASTER" I keep hoping one day folks in the US will get tired of being screwed on their healthcare and living in fear of getting sick... shrug
- kevingadd 5y ago
  Insulin prices have increased SO MUCH over the past 50 years, it's disgusting. The manufacturers' margins just keep climbing because they know they can raise prices without consequence.
  - renewiltord 5y ago
    Well, that's because the insulin has been getting better. You could always buy porcine insulin and shit. It's just not as good (side effects, harder to dose, etc.).
    - pimeys 5y ago
      The best new analogs cost about 28 euros per 10ml bottle in Spain without insurance... Medicine, such as FIASP...
      - WillPostForFood 5y ago
        Europe is free riding on the US.
        atlasunshrugged 5y ago
        I heard this argument somewhere (not just about medicine but also on defense, why they can have such lavish perks/holidays/etc.) but can't remember where. Do you have any good articles/papers on this?
nanq 5y ago
Firstly, for anyone completely out of insulin, please know novonordisk offers a patient assistant program and will cover your insulin free of cost. I used this during college. If you can't even afford a doctor, there should be free health care clinics willing to sign those forms required. I used my college's clinic once to do so as well. The down side is signing away your personal health records. As a type 1 diabetic myself, Walmart's offerings on R or Regular insulin saved me a few times. Once when I was simply out of insulin and did not have insurance. Then when I was caught in another city for work and ran out due to needing to extend my stay. I am slightly disappointed to see that one, the price is not the same as their human insulin which is around 25 dollars per vial I believe. Two, it will require a prescription. The times I bought their cheapest insulin, this was not required. However, I hope this is the right direction.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  Great information to share. I wish more people knew about Walmart's $25/vial regular insulin. Like you said, it's available without a prescription at any Walmart (except in Indiana). Dosing needs to be adjusted relative to insulin analogs, but it's a viable option for anyone in a money pinch who hasn't yet gone through the process of signing up for patient assistance programs for their analog.
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- aerovistae 5y ago
  Sorry what do you mean by "human insulin"?
  - TylerE 5y ago
    "Regular" insulin is derived from pigs. "Human" insulin is synthetically produced.
  - treis 5y ago
    Human insulin is the insulin humans naturally produce. Analogs provide the same biologic function as insulin but are engineered to have different properties. Like they can be faster acting or stay in the blood longer. This makes it easier for diabetics to manage their blood sugar. The GP was bemoaning that Walmart is selling the analogs for $70+ instead of the $25 they sell human insulin for.
dstaley 5y ago
I'd love to hear from someone with diabetes if this version of insulin is comparable to the typical high-end modern insulins. I remember at one point Walmart had a $20 insulin, but there was something about it that made the dosing a royal pain compared to other insulins. Is this any better?
- nanq 5y ago
  It is better but costs more at $72 per vial. Regular/R insulin: >Regular Human Insulin which has an onset of action of 1/2 hour to 1 hour, peak effect in 2 to 4 hours, and duration of action of 6 to 8 hours. The insulin they're offering: >starts to work about 15 minutes after injection, peaks in about 1 hour, and keeps working for 2 to 4 hours. For example, if you have maybe 15 grams more of carbohydrates than you planned and you did R (old insulin), then you will either have to wait or, what they did for me in school back at that time, send em to P.E for awhile (since exercise _mostly_ and _usually_ lowers blood sugars) ;-).
- newbie789 5y ago
  It’s NovoLog. It’s a very common somewhat modern insulin. It’s not some sort of new thing, it’s just Walmart branding. If you’re a type 1 and use novolog, it’s just more of that.
- AnthonBerg 5y ago
  This is insulin aspart, a good fast-acting insulin. Our household uses this, sold as Fiasp. Insulins are interesting.
kevingadd 5y ago
I really would love it if people contemplated for a moment before posting horrible stuff acting like everyone with type 2 diabetes deserves it, or only has it because they buy food at Walmart. There are all sorts of factors that can contribute to diabetes and some people struggle with it for life. Do a little better.
- redleader55 5y ago
  No one deserves to have a disease, and no one should say that. I'm not from US, but whenever I went there in the past I was amazed at the size of the portions, the size of the cars, and the size of the people. I would like to live in a world where we can both be sensitive about certain topics, but also be able start hard discussions - for example "don't live an unhealthy lifestyle, exercise, eat better, or you're going to be the only one to blame if you get sick from X, Y, Z".
  - thebooktocome 5y ago
    There's a far cry between the position you advocate (which I still consider victim-blaming, but, okay) and the callousness exhibited by others in this thread.
bransonf 5y ago
This is great, but (obviously) not purely benevolent. A vial of analog insulin costs something like $6-7 to produce, probably less at Walmart scale. The distribution costs probably make the net cost somewhere still in the $7-10 range. That’s a $60-65 or ~90% margin per Vial. 5-10 million or so insulin users in the US, let’s assume Walmart captures 3 million, at 3 vials per month. $180 * 12 * 3mil ~~ 6.5 Billion. Current market cap 400B Lots of assumptions, but Walmart may have just added 2% of market cap per annum by insulin sales?
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  Of course it's not purely benevolent. Walmart is a business and this is a business move. > A vial of analog insulin costs something like $6-7 to produce, probably less at Walmart scale. The distribution costs probably make the net cost somewhere still in the $7-10 range. Don't forget the R&D costs of getting a generic drug approved and setting up the manufacturing. It may cost <$10 to produce at scale, but getting there isn't free. Hopefully Walmart's pricing trends downward toward the $25/vial price of regular insulin. Actually, I hope this move spurs more chain pharmacies to start developing their own analogs, furthering competition in the space. Race to the bottom would be great.
  - brayhite 5y ago
    Curious how often the “race to the bottom” versus the “planned price floor” applies to healthcare. Sure, OTC stuff may differ given the different markets, but I’m highly skeptical of this spurring any sort of race to the bottom that doesn’t also come with large asterisks around quality, qualification to purchase, etc.
- deregulateMed 5y ago
  I trust Walmart as a customer significantly more than the healthcare cartels. Benevolent? It's not exactly hard to be more benevolent than the medical establishment.
- gruez 5y ago
  >A vial of analog insulin costs something like $6-7 to produce, probably less at Walmart scale Where are you getting the $6-7 figure from? Artisan insulin makers? Feels like every insulin maker out there operates at walmart's scale, if not bigger. If that's where we're getting the $6-7 figure from, then it's not reasonable to expect it to drop any further.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
Great to see more competition in the insulin analogs space. Walmart is also famous for selling regular insulin for $25/vial for many years now. Regular insulin isn't always as easy to dose as the modern insulin analogs, but it's a viable option for most people who are cost-constrained who don't otherwise have access to insurance.
- an_opabinia 5y ago
  Patients will eventually die or like go blind on “regular” insulin.
  - RHSeeger 5y ago
    Please don't do that. The older R/N/L insulins are clearly not as good as the newer insulins, that much is true. But they are sufficient to live a relatively healthy life as a diabetic. You need to be more careful and strict with your diet and activity, but there's nothing inherent in them that causes blindness or death.
  - 1123581321 5y ago
    This isn’t true. I’ve tested Novalin with a Dexcom and it’s possible to dose correctly and keep glucose in an appropriate range.
munificent 5y ago
I look forward to them selling this right next to the 40-packs of Coke like how the tortilla chip aisle always has dip on the end cap.
- dahfizz 5y ago
  Take responsibility for your own choices. Walmart is not your nanny.
avelis 5y ago
The inventors of insulin gave away the patents to specifically not profit off of a life saving drug. This is progress. However, I feel we have regressed as a society on preserving equitable access to life saving drugs.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > The inventors of insulin gave away the patents to specifically not profit off of a life saving drug This is an insulin analog, which is a more modern patented drug. Regular insulin is available for $25/vial at Walmart already. Could be cheaper, yes, but at that price it's already approaching their costs of production, distribution, and sales. I hope the price of this insulin analog trends downward toward the $25 price of regular insulin.
  - GordonS 5y ago
    Genuine question (I'm not diabetic): are the analogs actually any better than regular insulin, or were these analogs only created because manufacturers didn't like the margins on regular insulin, allowing them to hold up their hands and justify the price with "R&D"?
    - jowsie 5y ago
      They work MUCH quicker, which can be the difference between a mild headache and going blind for some people.
    - RHSeeger 5y ago
      The analogs are much more convenient to use. The short acting ones take effect much quicker, for a shorter period, and more consistently. The long acting ones (generally considered ~24 hours, but not really) are much more level in their effect (less spikes in it's efficiency). Instead of figuring out what you're going to eat, taking insulin for that, and waiting 30-60 minutes before you can eat; you can take them pretty much right as you eat. Instead of your blood sugar rising or dropping "randomly" over the course of the day, it tends to stay more consistent (though your body may decide otherwise). That being said, with enough testing (or a CGM, but that can be costly too), the older insulins work just fine; they're just annoying to use. You see your blood sugar going up, you exercise some; you see it going down, you drink some OJ. I tend to have to do the same with the newer insulins AND a CGM; just a lot less so.
solarkraft 5y ago
Note that this is a cooperation with Novo Nordisk, which is one of the "bad guys" in the insulin story.
- gruez 5y ago
  So walmart convinced one of the "bad guys" to do a good. Still seems like a win to me.
  - baby 5y ago
    It’s a depressive win that masks all the other loses.
  - karmajunkie 5y ago
    Doesn't seem like a "good" as much as a "less bad".
    - deregulateMed 5y ago
      Given the medical industry is more than okay with going Full Evil, I'm happy to see Walmart knocking them down a notch in evil. If nothing else, this may cause something foreign to the medical industry- Competition.
    - gruez 5y ago
      I'm talking about the action itself, not the entity overall.
  - deleted 5y ago
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tills13 5y ago
How the hell is it "revolutionary" to offer a life-saving product for $70. It's free here in Canada. This is nothing more than a PR play -- if they weren't also able to turn a profit on it, they wouldn't have done it.
- nwah1 5y ago
  Insulin is not produced by insulin fairies. Someone needs to do it. Even if the government foots the bill, it would be better if that bill were 75% cheaper.
TheRealPomax 5y ago
This really is one of those great shames of the US. Insulin is 10x what it should cost. Out of pocket, Fiasp costs 7.50 euro per 3ml, Novorapid costs 6.50, Novomix 30 is 7 euro, Triseba 12 euro, even the ridiculously pricy Xultophy is only 30 euro. The idea that "We halved the price" when the price is literally ten times too high, and not presenting it as "a start, we intend to bring the price down far more over the next few years" but as "and then we stopped, we're undercutting and that's all we're interested in" is... insane?
Rapzid 5y ago
How long does a vial typically last? Is it one vial per day?
- tyingq 5y ago
  It varies by patient, but the average monthly costs I've seen seem to gravitate to either 3 vials/month or 10 pens/month. There's 300 units in a pen, 1000 in a vial, so the averages are based on 3000 units/month.
orliesaurus 5y ago
Call me impressed once they start giving it away for $1 or free!
not2b 5y ago
The insulin Walmart is selling is much, much more difficult to use effectively than the fast-acting insulin formulations that Type 1 diabetics rely on to keep them alive, because they work so slowly. Better than nothing, but it's much harder to avoid the highs and lows that cause major damage to the body.
- dsaavy 5y ago
  This is the equivalent for Novolog (the fast-acting insulin formulations you're referring to), not for the older R variety they've been selling for a while now.
  - not2b 5y ago
    Thanks for the correction. I was thinking of the insulin that Walmart was already selling.
- AnthonBerg 5y ago
  Fortunately this is insulin aspart!, which is a good fast-acting insulin.
danpalmer 5y ago
> We know many people with diabetes struggle to manage the financial burden of this condition There is no financial burden to diabetes, there is a financial burden to living in the US where healthcare is a privilege.
deregulateMed 5y ago
Walmart seems fantastic for customers, bad for employees and bad for suppliers. I wonder if every company was like this, what would happen to the world.
- gamacodre 5y ago
  "Fantastic for customers" is an overstatement IMO. A well-informed customer can stretch their budget without too many compromises by selectively shopping there. But that's exhausting, it's much easier to just run down your list or buy everything you can remember needing while you're there. This usually leads to major compromises in value, function, and the quality of life for everyone involved in the supply chain. Not to mention the chilling effect on the rest of the retail environment in every market they've decided to i̶n̶v̶a̶d̶e̶ enter. Not meaning to cast any shade at this insulin product; it looks like a substantial improvement over what the US "market" for insulin was offering before.
908B64B197 5y ago
Considering the number of people dependent on insulin, I wonder if it would be possible for diabetics to form a coop-like structure and purchase it (or make it) at rock-bottom production prices for members.
- sjg007 5y ago
  It sure is, is there an app for that?

197 points by dsaavy 5y ago

changoplatanero 5y ago

will other producers reduce their prices too now?

cogman10 5y ago
Likely yes. They either do that or lose a large amount of income. They have been banking on nothing cheaper on the market. Also, they are likely to sue walmart for whatever BS reason. But, walmart probably figures they can get through it unscathed.

okareaman 5y ago

Walmart knows it's customers: They sell vast quantities of candy, sugar drinks and food with added sugar, and now insulin.

xeromal 5y ago
We act like humans have no self-control or responsibility. lol
- catillac 5y ago
  It’s not as simple as all of that. With modern marketing and ads, the deck is very much stacked against us.
  - IncRnd 5y ago
    Seeing ads doesn't force you to make poor food choices.
    - criddell 5y ago
      Why do you think they advertise?
      - IncRnd 5y ago
        Of course ads exist to increase product sales. That doesn't mean that people are unable to actually look at the product label and make informed choices. Ads don't make you do anything. Thinking that they do is a crutch.
        NoSorryCannot 5y ago
        If advertising works on average, then there is a discussion about ethics that is worth having. Falling back on individual responsibility might be popular but it is absolutely a cop out. We're playing a numbers game with public health in an adversarial environment. Relying absolutely on what individuals could or should do isn't going to help us win that game.
        IncRnd 5y ago
        Why do you say that individual responsibility is a cop out? People can read the labels and ingredients on a package of food. This is true even for those people who never question why they are purchasing food in boxes instead of actual food.
        NoSorryCannot 5y ago
        It's a cop out to defer to individual responsibility and ignore all the other tools that are available to improve public health. We know that there's a rich corpus of psychological research that provides tools that we know can be used to affect behavior and choices. It's being used to sell us things that are bad for us and that same research should be used to inform regulation policy and public health communications.
        5y ago
- comeonseriously 5y ago
  That's not all there is to the story either. Processed food is generally cheaper in the sense of time and money. Most of us HNers are blessed with great salaries and stable (9-5) work. Millions of consumer, of course, are not.
- rafale 5y ago
  I would agree with you if we had a decent education system. I bet the amount of high school students that know how to read and make sense ilof a nutrition facts label is staggering low. Not that those labels are even needed if they were taught to stay away from fast food, sugar drinks and highly processed food. But they are not. There is also the issue of money, because junk food is usually more calorie dense and cheaper per calorie than healthy food. But government corn subsidies are to blame for that I guess.
- nexuist 5y ago
  Self control is irrelevant when your financial situation prevents you from having the opportunity to make choices.
  - xeromal 5y ago
    I grew up poor in Appalachia in methsville, georgia and I managed to develop an extremely cheap diet of lentils, oats, cheap chicken, and spinach/broccoli at 16 years old. I definitely understand the allure of cheap, processed foods but it's from willful decisions.
    - kevingadd 5y ago
      The things you describe aren't all cheap in every part of the country. Some parts of the country actually have somewhat limited access to fresh vegetables/meat or have to pay a premium for it.
      - ev1 5y ago
        +1 to this, I'd have to go out of my way, significantly, to find those items for cheap, while fast food is $3 for a calorie-dense burger and easily accessible. Of course, there are nearby supermarkets too, but you'll be paying like $10/lb for raw chicken and everything is "organic"
        refurb 5y ago
        You’re upset that you have to make healthy choices?
        ev1 5y ago
        I'm kind of using I in third person - it's cheaper, more accessible, easier, faster to get unhealthy food. For many people it is not possible or feasible to make those healthy choices. For example, extensive - both in time and money - travel time to cheaper supermarkets (vs something like Whole Foods) to be able to afford fresh ingredients. There's also the part where working multiple jobs might make it difficult to make it to a proper market before they close, while fast food is nearly universal and available all day and all night.
- andrewzah 5y ago
  Quite a lot of people do lack self control and it’s controversial to state this. Also, it is time consuming to read every single label on food that one buys. The labels on the front are often misleading. I frequently work at state fairs & arts and crafts festivals on the east coast. The amount of very overweight and obese people is simply astounding. About half of one coke is the average adult’s recommended sugar intake. I know more people than I’d like who have at least one soda every day, and some who have multiple every day. Nearly everything in our supermarkets has a lot of sugar. Including common things like bread and pasta sauce. Last time I checked at publix, I only found -one- type of bread that didn’t have a lot of sugar in it. Finding a protein bar without tons of sugar was rather difficult. Etc. Combine this with sitting all day + driving everywhere and we’ve got a huge problem.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >Also, it is time consuming to read every single label on food that one buys. The labels on the front are often misleading. But only in the short term, right? Once you figured out what products are healthy and switched to them, you can rely on prior memory. It's not like you have to look at the labels of every item you're buying for years.
    - eropple 5y ago
      Ingredients change; how often are you checking and updating what you know? Availability changes; what brand is #2 and #3 on your list? Or the time in your day you have to prepare food may suddenly shrink; do you then have the time and spare cognitive cycles to make a good decision under stress? (You probably don't. Not, like, you specifically, but in aggregate.) We make it difficult on purpose to eat healthily in the West because eating less healthily is more profitable. I eat pretty healthy, though I also like cheeseburgers so I'm not thin. But I make a very healthy income and have the time, and the resources, and the education to actually have the time and executive function to have an opinion about ingredients in food. It is difficult for me to know these things, let alone to in all cases exert the self-control to act on them--and I make north of five times the median personal income of the United States with which to do it. I mean, let's think for a second. Blame an Amazon picker or a Wal-Mart cashier or blame the corporate entity with a marketing department designed to overwhelm your attention and to induce the specific action they test and refine for? Gosh. I wonder.
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- jabroni_salad 5y ago
  Reading about all the tricks marketers use to get us to think we need to buy shit we do not need, and honestly I do wonder if self control is an illusion.
  - cwkoss 5y ago
    I wonder if there are studies looking at whether exposure to advertisements affects self control. I would imagine that certain advertisements reliably decrease self control (as that is their intent). Would be interesting to have data to back this hypothesis up though.
  - mcguire 5y ago
    Given that the tech industry is built around making those advertising tricks more effective....
- JohnWhigham 5y ago
  At scale though, it's pretty evident that people don't have either of these with respect to their health. Is this an indictment on humanity as a whole, or someone else? Ultimately the answer doesn't matter because when something like this is this widespread, it has serious problems for society as a whole. Do we want to continue to put up our noses at the unwashed masses (which doesn't help anybody or anything), or do we want to do something about it and potentially help out society and start to get those who have erred on the right path?
  - xeromal 5y ago
    I appreciate this take and I agree with you to an extent. Humanity benefits when we help each other, but I'm not sure how you pull this off. Do we need intelligence licenses that allow to you to purchase unhealthy foods?
- not_math 5y ago
  Before 18 (or 21, or 16) it's debatable that humans have the capacity to self-control, or make their own decisions understanding the effect on themselves and those surrounding them. I'm not saying that they're completely oblivious, but there is a reason why the law is not applied in the same way for children (non-adults). Now, it's a mix of societal and economical (and more) that's making people eat a certain way. Changing your eating behavior can be difficult, especially if you've eaten a certain way for the past 16-18 years. I'm not saying it's Walmart's fault, but it's also not just an individual willingness to change that's in play here. The United States clearly has a problem of obesity, which is related to Type 2 diabetes.
- jakeinspace 5y ago
  If you mean to say that we should take a libertarian approach and not try to use government for nudging society towards healthier eating and lifestyle standards, you might as well say that we should give up on the health of the US. Because I have 0 faith in purely individual or "grass-roots" societal change fixing our obesity crisis, given the path we're on.
comeonseriously 5y ago
> They sell vast quantities of candy, sugar drinks and food with added sugar As do all but specialized grocery stores because this is the majority of food produced. How about we go after the food producers instead? Or the subsidies that enable this?
- criddell 5y ago
  How much of an impact do the subsidies have?
  - kleer001 5y ago
    A fair bit. Some facts over here : https://economics21.org/html/sugar-subsidies-are-bitter-deal-american-consumers-1007.html https://economics21.org/html/sugar-subsidies-are-bitter-deal... and of course the true scandal of sugar (IMHO the war crime of anti-science) https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074/50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074...
    - gruez 5y ago
      That doesn't really answer the question. There's a lot of subsidies going around, but how much difference does it make to foods at the checkout? Does [junk food item] being 10% more expensive cause a meaningful drop in consumption?
      - kleer001 5y ago
        > That doesn't really answer the question. Sure it does. Maybe not to 5 decimal places, but you're not going to get that on an internet forum of non-specialists. You want more? I'm sure there's a dissertation from an economics student or a master's thesis out there for your digestion.
  - connicpu 5y ago
    Corn subsidies have a huge impact on the price of high fructose corn syrup, corn is the US's most subsidized crop

chrsig 5y ago

Ah, walmart. The cause of, and solution to type II diabetes.

renewiltord 5y ago
It is well known that Sam Walton held people's mouths open and poured refined sugar into their gullets. He then tied them down to their beds so they could not exercise.
bpodgursky 5y ago
I have shopped at Wal-Mart for groceries many times and the food is no better or worse than any other supermarket. There are perfectly good fresh vegetables and meats etc, alongside the chips and soda you find ay every other store.
- akimball 5y ago
  In many places the only source of organic produce (or the cheapest source) is walmart
- deregulateMed 5y ago
  Yep. My cart looks different than most people's at Walmart. Fresh food, nothing frozen outside occasional vegetables. You can be a picture of health shopping at Walmart, just as you can be a danger to yourself shopping at whole foods.
dawnerd 5y ago
This more benefits people with type 1. It’s not really a solution to type 2 at all.

rubyn00bie 5y ago

This is good because it will actually help people... ... but wow, just woooow. It's so incredibly depressing that I'm calling this "good." Sometimes the sheer insanity of the United States health care system overwhelms me. The fact insulin isn't a few dollars or free is beyond disheartening. It's like the system itself saying the Sackler's just didn't have enough imagination exploiting people, and destroying lives, for profit. "Oh? You don't need to get them addicted if they'll die without it... silly, Sacklers. #BusinessMASTER" I keep hoping one day folks in the US will get tired of being screwed on their healthcare and living in fear of getting sick... shrug

kevingadd 5y ago
Insulin prices have increased SO MUCH over the past 50 years, it's disgusting. The manufacturers' margins just keep climbing because they know they can raise prices without consequence.
- renewiltord 5y ago
  Well, that's because the insulin has been getting better. You could always buy porcine insulin and shit. It's just not as good (side effects, harder to dose, etc.).
  - pimeys 5y ago
    The best new analogs cost about 28 euros per 10ml bottle in Spain without insurance... Medicine, such as FIASP...
    - WillPostForFood 5y ago
      Europe is free riding on the US.
      - atlasunshrugged 5y ago
        I heard this argument somewhere (not just about medicine but also on defense, why they can have such lavish perks/holidays/etc.) but can't remember where. Do you have any good articles/papers on this?

nanq 5y ago

Firstly, for anyone completely out of insulin, please know novonordisk offers a patient assistant program and will cover your insulin free of cost. I used this during college. If you can't even afford a doctor, there should be free health care clinics willing to sign those forms required. I used my college's clinic once to do so as well. The down side is signing away your personal health records. As a type 1 diabetic myself, Walmart's offerings on R or Regular insulin saved me a few times. Once when I was simply out of insulin and did not have insurance. Then when I was caught in another city for work and ran out due to needing to extend my stay. I am slightly disappointed to see that one, the price is not the same as their human insulin which is around 25 dollars per vial I believe. Two, it will require a prescription. The times I bought their cheapest insulin, this was not required. However, I hope this is the right direction.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
Great information to share. I wish more people knew about Walmart's $25/vial regular insulin. Like you said, it's available without a prescription at any Walmart (except in Indiana). Dosing needs to be adjusted relative to insulin analogs, but it's a viable option for anyone in a money pinch who hasn't yet gone through the process of signing up for patient assistance programs for their analog.
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aerovistae 5y ago
Sorry what do you mean by "human insulin"?
- TylerE 5y ago
  "Regular" insulin is derived from pigs. "Human" insulin is synthetically produced.
- treis 5y ago
  Human insulin is the insulin humans naturally produce. Analogs provide the same biologic function as insulin but are engineered to have different properties. Like they can be faster acting or stay in the blood longer. This makes it easier for diabetics to manage their blood sugar. The GP was bemoaning that Walmart is selling the analogs for $70+ instead of the $25 they sell human insulin for.

dstaley 5y ago

I'd love to hear from someone with diabetes if this version of insulin is comparable to the typical high-end modern insulins. I remember at one point Walmart had a $20 insulin, but there was something about it that made the dosing a royal pain compared to other insulins. Is this any better?

nanq 5y ago
It is better but costs more at $72 per vial. Regular/R insulin: >Regular Human Insulin which has an onset of action of 1/2 hour to 1 hour, peak effect in 2 to 4 hours, and duration of action of 6 to 8 hours. The insulin they're offering: >starts to work about 15 minutes after injection, peaks in about 1 hour, and keeps working for 2 to 4 hours. For example, if you have maybe 15 grams more of carbohydrates than you planned and you did R (old insulin), then you will either have to wait or, what they did for me in school back at that time, send em to P.E for awhile (since exercise _mostly_ and _usually_ lowers blood sugars) ;-).
newbie789 5y ago
It’s NovoLog. It’s a very common somewhat modern insulin. It’s not some sort of new thing, it’s just Walmart branding. If you’re a type 1 and use novolog, it’s just more of that.
AnthonBerg 5y ago
This is insulin aspart, a good fast-acting insulin. Our household uses this, sold as Fiasp. Insulins are interesting.

kevingadd 5y ago

I really would love it if people contemplated for a moment before posting horrible stuff acting like everyone with type 2 diabetes deserves it, or only has it because they buy food at Walmart. There are all sorts of factors that can contribute to diabetes and some people struggle with it for life. Do a little better.

redleader55 5y ago
No one deserves to have a disease, and no one should say that. I'm not from US, but whenever I went there in the past I was amazed at the size of the portions, the size of the cars, and the size of the people. I would like to live in a world where we can both be sensitive about certain topics, but also be able start hard discussions - for example "don't live an unhealthy lifestyle, exercise, eat better, or you're going to be the only one to blame if you get sick from X, Y, Z".
- thebooktocome 5y ago
  There's a far cry between the position you advocate (which I still consider victim-blaming, but, okay) and the callousness exhibited by others in this thread.

bransonf 5y ago

This is great, but (obviously) not purely benevolent. A vial of analog insulin costs something like $6-7 to produce, probably less at Walmart scale. The distribution costs probably make the net cost somewhere still in the $7-10 range. That’s a $60-65 or ~90% margin per Vial. 5-10 million or so insulin users in the US, let’s assume Walmart captures 3 million, at 3 vials per month. $180 * 12 * 3mil ~~ 6.5 Billion. Current market cap 400B Lots of assumptions, but Walmart may have just added 2% of market cap per annum by insulin sales?

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
Of course it's not purely benevolent. Walmart is a business and this is a business move. > A vial of analog insulin costs something like $6-7 to produce, probably less at Walmart scale. The distribution costs probably make the net cost somewhere still in the $7-10 range. Don't forget the R&D costs of getting a generic drug approved and setting up the manufacturing. It may cost <$10 to produce at scale, but getting there isn't free. Hopefully Walmart's pricing trends downward toward the $25/vial price of regular insulin. Actually, I hope this move spurs more chain pharmacies to start developing their own analogs, furthering competition in the space. Race to the bottom would be great.
- brayhite 5y ago
  Curious how often the “race to the bottom” versus the “planned price floor” applies to healthcare. Sure, OTC stuff may differ given the different markets, but I’m highly skeptical of this spurring any sort of race to the bottom that doesn’t also come with large asterisks around quality, qualification to purchase, etc.
deregulateMed 5y ago
I trust Walmart as a customer significantly more than the healthcare cartels. Benevolent? It's not exactly hard to be more benevolent than the medical establishment.
gruez 5y ago
>A vial of analog insulin costs something like $6-7 to produce, probably less at Walmart scale Where are you getting the $6-7 figure from? Artisan insulin makers? Feels like every insulin maker out there operates at walmart's scale, if not bigger. If that's where we're getting the $6-7 figure from, then it's not reasonable to expect it to drop any further.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

Great to see more competition in the insulin analogs space. Walmart is also famous for selling regular insulin for $25/vial for many years now. Regular insulin isn't always as easy to dose as the modern insulin analogs, but it's a viable option for most people who are cost-constrained who don't otherwise have access to insurance.

an_opabinia 5y ago
Patients will eventually die or like go blind on “regular” insulin.
- RHSeeger 5y ago
  Please don't do that. The older R/N/L insulins are clearly not as good as the newer insulins, that much is true. But they are sufficient to live a relatively healthy life as a diabetic. You need to be more careful and strict with your diet and activity, but there's nothing inherent in them that causes blindness or death.
- 1123581321 5y ago
  This isn’t true. I’ve tested Novalin with a Dexcom and it’s possible to dose correctly and keep glucose in an appropriate range.

munificent 5y ago

I look forward to them selling this right next to the 40-packs of Coke like how the tortilla chip aisle always has dip on the end cap.

dahfizz 5y ago
Take responsibility for your own choices. Walmart is not your nanny.

avelis 5y ago

The inventors of insulin gave away the patents to specifically not profit off of a life saving drug. This is progress. However, I feel we have regressed as a society on preserving equitable access to life saving drugs.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> The inventors of insulin gave away the patents to specifically not profit off of a life saving drug This is an insulin analog, which is a more modern patented drug. Regular insulin is available for $25/vial at Walmart already. Could be cheaper, yes, but at that price it's already approaching their costs of production, distribution, and sales. I hope the price of this insulin analog trends downward toward the $25 price of regular insulin.
- GordonS 5y ago
  Genuine question (I'm not diabetic): are the analogs actually any better than regular insulin, or were these analogs only created because manufacturers didn't like the margins on regular insulin, allowing them to hold up their hands and justify the price with "R&D"?
  - jowsie 5y ago
    They work MUCH quicker, which can be the difference between a mild headache and going blind for some people.
  - RHSeeger 5y ago
    The analogs are much more convenient to use. The short acting ones take effect much quicker, for a shorter period, and more consistently. The long acting ones (generally considered ~24 hours, but not really) are much more level in their effect (less spikes in it's efficiency). Instead of figuring out what you're going to eat, taking insulin for that, and waiting 30-60 minutes before you can eat; you can take them pretty much right as you eat. Instead of your blood sugar rising or dropping "randomly" over the course of the day, it tends to stay more consistent (though your body may decide otherwise). That being said, with enough testing (or a CGM, but that can be costly too), the older insulins work just fine; they're just annoying to use. You see your blood sugar going up, you exercise some; you see it going down, you drink some OJ. I tend to have to do the same with the newer insulins AND a CGM; just a lot less so.

solarkraft 5y ago

Note that this is a cooperation with Novo Nordisk, which is one of the "bad guys" in the insulin story.

gruez 5y ago
So walmart convinced one of the "bad guys" to do a good. Still seems like a win to me.
- baby 5y ago
  It’s a depressive win that masks all the other loses.
- karmajunkie 5y ago
  Doesn't seem like a "good" as much as a "less bad".
  - deregulateMed 5y ago
    Given the medical industry is more than okay with going Full Evil, I'm happy to see Walmart knocking them down a notch in evil. If nothing else, this may cause something foreign to the medical industry- Competition.
  - gruez 5y ago
    I'm talking about the action itself, not the entity overall.
- deleted 5y ago
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tills13 5y ago

How the hell is it "revolutionary" to offer a life-saving product for $70. It's free here in Canada. This is nothing more than a PR play -- if they weren't also able to turn a profit on it, they wouldn't have done it.

nwah1 5y ago
Insulin is not produced by insulin fairies. Someone needs to do it. Even if the government foots the bill, it would be better if that bill were 75% cheaper.

TheRealPomax 5y ago

This really is one of those great shames of the US. Insulin is 10x what it should cost. Out of pocket, Fiasp costs 7.50 euro per 3ml, Novorapid costs 6.50, Novomix 30 is 7 euro, Triseba 12 euro, even the ridiculously pricy Xultophy is only 30 euro. The idea that "We halved the price" when the price is literally ten times too high, and not presenting it as "a start, we intend to bring the price down far more over the next few years" but as "and then we stopped, we're undercutting and that's all we're interested in" is... insane?

Rapzid 5y ago

How long does a vial typically last? Is it one vial per day?

tyingq 5y ago
It varies by patient, but the average monthly costs I've seen seem to gravitate to either 3 vials/month or 10 pens/month. There's 300 units in a pen, 1000 in a vial, so the averages are based on 3000 units/month.

orliesaurus 5y ago

Call me impressed once they start giving it away for $1 or free!

not2b 5y ago

The insulin Walmart is selling is much, much more difficult to use effectively than the fast-acting insulin formulations that Type 1 diabetics rely on to keep them alive, because they work so slowly. Better than nothing, but it's much harder to avoid the highs and lows that cause major damage to the body.

dsaavy 5y ago
This is the equivalent for Novolog (the fast-acting insulin formulations you're referring to), not for the older R variety they've been selling for a while now.
- not2b 5y ago
  Thanks for the correction. I was thinking of the insulin that Walmart was already selling.
AnthonBerg 5y ago
Fortunately this is insulin aspart!, which is a good fast-acting insulin.

danpalmer 5y ago

> We know many people with diabetes struggle to manage the financial burden of this condition There is no financial burden to diabetes, there is a financial burden to living in the US where healthcare is a privilege.

deregulateMed 5y ago

Walmart seems fantastic for customers, bad for employees and bad for suppliers. I wonder if every company was like this, what would happen to the world.

gamacodre 5y ago
"Fantastic for customers" is an overstatement IMO. A well-informed customer can stretch their budget without too many compromises by selectively shopping there. But that's exhausting, it's much easier to just run down your list or buy everything you can remember needing while you're there. This usually leads to major compromises in value, function, and the quality of life for everyone involved in the supply chain. Not to mention the chilling effect on the rest of the retail environment in every market they've decided to i̶n̶v̶a̶d̶e̶ enter. Not meaning to cast any shade at this insulin product; it looks like a substantial improvement over what the US "market" for insulin was offering before.

908B64B197 5y ago

Considering the number of people dependent on insulin, I wonder if it would be possible for diabetics to form a coop-like structure and purchase it (or make it) at rock-bottom production prices for members.

sjg007 5y ago
It sure is, is there an app for that?