8 ms·

Tennessee DoH halts all vaccine outreach to kids – not just for Covid-19

Finnucane 5y ago
Make Polio Great Again!
joe_hills 5y ago
As someone currently self-employed in Nashville and trying to figure out how to scale up my network of part-time contractors into a real company, my state legislature making decisions like this (and also needlessly harassing trans folks) is incredibly frustrating. How can I ask people who work for me to live here?
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  Apologies for off-topic but are you the one who “records as they always do in Nashville, Tennessee”? If so, I want to say thanks so much for your videos - they have been an amazing source of entertainment during my teenage years.
- hirsin 5y ago
  Don't? We're in the midst of a great realization that you don't need to be physically near someone to work with them. Alternately, ensure they have sufficient pay and benefits to ignore the GOP restrictions and then hope they help vote them out.
  - IgorPartola 5y ago
    So show my remote-only plumber isn’t doing it for me…
- newsyyswen 5y ago
  Have you tried telling them about the great BBQ and blues? I dunno what to tell you. After touring almost all of our great states, the only constant seems to be that you get what your neighbors vote for.
- 1123581321 5y ago
  I realize this is rhetorical, but the answer is that the majority of people aren’t single or double issue voters. They may be seeking to live in TN to avoid downsides of other states, making a tradeoff. And then there are people who are politically diametric to you who are also great employees; these you probably don’t need to sell the idea of residency as much. Between these two groups, there are enough such people to sustain job markets in every state.
  - darig 5y ago
    I realize this is rhetorical, but do you want to work in a building full of anti-vaxxers?
  - sterlind 5y ago
    most people, sure. but I'm trans and I don't think I'd like to live in a state that's harassing me. there's legitimate concerns about how livable places are for certain groups based on state policy and community prejudice.
    - 1123581321 5y ago
      Note I didn’t even say “most people,” just majority. I know there are plenty of single-issue voters and residency selectors too.
    - rorykoehler 5y ago
      I'm not trans and I also wouldn't like to live somewhere where trans people are harassed. It's just not a vibe I want in my life.
- caseysoftware 5y ago
  Vote with your feet. Move somewhere you find more friendly to you and your potential hires.
  - takeda 5y ago
    No matter where you go, those states will still have 2 senators that will affect you. So while I can't dictate what others should do, I would prefer if more people would come and affected the local government instead.
- mmastrac 5y ago
  It's easy: don't. I am struggling with the same thing up here in Alberta and it's just impossible to make any headway against an electorate that continues to vote this way. It's not worth your time and it's better to focus on hiring out of state/province or moving. EDIT: fellow Albertans feel free to email me on my profile (lots of us here!)
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    Yeah, Alberta being Alberta makes it hard to bring people here who didn't grow up here.
    - mc32 5y ago
      Except for Newfies...
  - bawolff 5y ago
    Idk, kenney has screwed things up so badly that the next election might be a real competition. https://338canada.com/alberta/polls.htm https://338canada.com/alberta/polls.htm
  - joe_hills 5y ago
    Relocating before hiring full-time employees is probably my best move. I've got a kid, though, so I'm currently trying to assess where we can afford to move that inspires confidence that we can really build something there. If we have to go, I don't wanna move again before she goes to college in a decade.
    - IgorPartola 5y ago
      Durham-Raleigh is young, lots of tech there, and real estate isn’t insane. You’ll also be close to some great incubators and Angel investors.
      - staticautomatic 5y ago
        Real estate has been getting pretty frothy there for a while.
- stirfish 5y ago
  Do you have to stay in Nashville? Moving for better opportunities is just about the most American thing a person can do
  - joe_hills 5y ago
    I could make the same amount of money anywhere with internet at this point, so there's no obvious place to move in particular. I loved the idea of hitting the West Coast until the smoke of the last few years caused me to reconsider. As I consider if climate extremes are likely to keep getting worse, upstate New York or Vermont are seeming more and more viable to me.
    - stirfish 5y ago
      Vermont is one of my favorite states in the union. The state motto is "freedom and unity" and you get the feeling that everyone is on the same team there. New Hampshire's state motto is "live free or die." If you die in New Hampshire, it's probably because someone else was living free.
      - renewiltord 5y ago
        It always amazes me that so many "freedom" states heavily police individual behaviour more than I have experienced in the Bay Area, which doesn't have that rhetoric. I can go buy magic mushrooms here, but in so-called Freedomland you can't even eat what you want. Whacky. I moved to Texas for a short while and hoo boy, Austin is nice, but the peeps in Texas really love to tell the government to tread on them. You can't even get weed brownies here. Talk about big government.
        _huayra_ 5y ago
        These folks shout "freedom" because shouting "fascism" is too overt. I remember how some of my family in southern California was so upset that prop 8 (banning gay marriage) was overturned by the supreme court, and I'm honestly impressed by the level of cognitive dissonance they could hold in their head: simultaneously talking about "muH FrE3DomS" yet wanting to curtail the same freedoms to other people that, in those people exercising those freedoms, have zero impact on their lives. When I pointed it out to them, they basically sputtered something incoherent about "well I'll have to explain to cousin Timmy why those MEN are holding hands in Safeway!". idk maybe suck less as a parent?!
- ghotli 5y ago
  I'm confused. Why ask people who work for you to live where you are? Is it actually important or does that opinion just have momentum. I also live in Tennessee but have been a remote worker for a decade. I deeply disagree with the politics of this place but you know, family's here. I think they just think they are right, regardless of if their claims are backed by evidence or care / concern for secondary consequences like you are describing. Flip the seats. If only it were so simple. P.S. Check out how cringe the Tennessee "quality of life" page reads. Three clicks off of the homepage of TN.gov. TLDR: Tennessee, "we keep it cheap" https://tnecd.com/advantages/quality-of-life/ https://tnecd.com/advantages/quality-of-life/
  - joe_hills 5y ago
    I work in video production and could use an engineer in-studio while I'm broadcasting to deal with tech on the fly. I'm hitting the ceiling on what I can do by myself during a live show.
    - ghotli 5y ago
      Perfectly reasonable, hope you find good talent :)
  - mandelbrotwurst 5y ago
    Many jobs are location dependent for pragmatic reasons, e.g. firefighters can't reasonably suppress fires 1000 miles away.
- dvdhnt 5y ago
  Living in Chattanooga, and watching as TN politics continue to leave me dumbfounded, I've come to believe that no matter where you are in this country, rural is rural and urban is urban. Upstate NY is just like rural TN. Sure, the state government seems to be more liberal, but it has many scandals and the same political sleaze as TN. In the end, the best thing we can do is to insulate ourselves and our loved ones from government intervention, focus on local politics, and take control of our own consumption i.e. we can't rely on the government to do what's best for our children. We should use these high paying remote jobs to buy nice homes with lots of space and access to good schools and healthcare. The rest of it will sort of work itself out. And if we're being honest, climate change will get us before the government here can /shrug
  - stirfish 5y ago
    >And if we're being honest, climate change will get us before the government here can The future is FEMA
  - rayiner 5y ago
    > In the end, the best thing we can do is to insulate ourselves and our loved ones from government intervention, focus on local politics, and take control of our own consumption i.e. we can't rely on the government to do what's best for our children. We feel that way too! So why don't you leave us alone? (If you hadn't noticed its not 1992 and nobody is trying to teach your kids abstinence-only education anymore.)
    - macmccann 5y ago
      In suburban Ohio public school, I was taught abstinence-only education in 2013. Could have changed since then though
    - lazulicurio 5y ago
      > We feel that way too! So why don't you leave us alone? (If you hadn't noticed its not 1992 and nobody is trying to teach your kids abstinence-only education anymore.) You made a similar bad-faith false-equalivance elsewhere in this thread. > > If we allow you adult choices, and you make choices that harm others > So we can go back to banning adultery and divorce? Forgive my language, but what utter crap. It's a vaccine against a deadly and contagious virus. You want to be left alone to drink your flavor aid? Be my guest. But you don't get to dump cyanide in the well and claim it's your right to do so.
- nodesocket 5y ago
  I moved me and my company from San Francisco in 2018 and absolutely love it here in Nashville. I suspect we may have clashing world and political views, but that’s not the point. Nashville is an amazing city, opportunity is unlimited, amazing night life, food, culture, and of course music. Southern is way more my style and speed. > How can I ask people who work for me to live here? Frankly, there is already enough demand and highly qualified people moving here.
  - taylodl 5y ago
    I'm a Yank but my wife and daughter went to Nashville to look at Vanderbilt University - and they loved it, both the University and Nashville. From what I've seen Nashville is beautiful. I've even thought about relocating or longer term retiring to the Nashville area but I have this little voice in my head always saying "but it's the South..." and frankly, stories like this tend to amplify that voice. P.S. I'm really into music and Nashville's music scene is very appealing, despite the state politics. So I'm definitely conflicted.
    - nodesocket 5y ago
      Nashville is a really blue dot in a red state that is Tennessee. If Nashville isn't liberal enough for you, then perhaps best to stay on the coasts. I actually feel Nashville is turning into the thing and ideologies I fled (California and San Francisco) with all the people moving here from Illinois, New York, and California.
- Proven 5y ago
  > How can I ask people who work for me to live here? Are you kidding me? How can you ask other people to fund this outreach for the benfit of your and your employees? You are responsible for your being informed. Nobody prevents you or your family or workers from being vaccinated. What has this world come to...
version_five 5y ago
There are two ways you can look at this. What I expect is people will mock and call citizens and lawmakers ignorant, and call for some tougher mechanism to make sure people get vaccinated. The other is that when you push too hard, you get pushback, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, etc. We are seeing this in other areas too, where pushing too hard on a liberal democratic (for lack of a better term) agenda leads to populist revolt, and effectively swings the pendulum way back past where most agree it reasonably should be. Until recently, it would only have been an extreme fringe group that was against long standing childhood vaccines. But it's not a surprise that when you start pushing people to do something, they start to become more wary and reject things that they previously would have accepted at face value. There is a pathway to authoritarianism where resistant is met by more and harsher rules, and one to a more enlightened society where people are treated like adults and mostly make the right choice.
- kjs3 5y ago
  So we pander to idiots. Great plan.
- gruez 5y ago
  >The other is that when you push too hard, you get pushback, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, etc What type of "outreach" programs can be described as being closer to "vinegar" than "honey"?
  - kyleee 5y ago
    Maybe #nojabnojob ? I'm sure there are others
    - pseudalopex 5y ago
      That's a policy some companies have chosen. Not a Tennessee Department of Health outreach program.
      - overboard2 5y ago
caseysoftware 5y ago
It appears the reasoning is: Minors can't legally give consent, therefore asking them to is likely illegal. If we follow that premise, then advertising or giving alcohol to minors should be illegal too.. and it is! Like it or not, it sounds like sensible legal reasoning.
- khuey 5y ago
  The difference is that things that are good for you are good for you and things that are bad for you are bad for you.
  - ericls 5y ago
    Human beings can’t definitively define good or bad without human defined boundary conditions. Be VERY careful with these two words in their general meaning.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  Minors can't give consent, so their parents grant consent on their behalf. The salient difference between vaccines (or any medical treatment) and making your child drink alcohol is that one is good for them and the other is abuse. There's an overwhelmingly large body of law dedicated to this.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - caseysoftware 5y ago
    Yes, exactly. Then they should focus outreach to those parents.. which is what's happening.
    - woodruffw 5y ago
      I'm sorry, but what? The article mentions receiving postcards and other information at the minor's home, which is presumably their guardian's home. Is the state of Tennessee not allowed to address children by their name when informing a household that a minor is due for a vaccine?
spoonjim 5y ago
It’s amazing to see how vaccines have become a political football in the last 25 years. It makes me pretty cynical about the long-term prospects of humanity, that so much of the population is vulnerable to self-destructive memes like this. It’s like finding out that all your Bitcoin is on a fleet of unpatched Windows 98 machines that can’t be upgraded.
- tehwebguy 5y ago
  I think it's the new version of starting a war. Similarly, it's completely unconscionable that someone would start a war and send thousands or millions of their own people to kill other people and/or die for any reason other than to stop some massively worse event from happening, but our presidents do it constantly. It was only 12 years before my birth that the US stopped forcing 18 year olds to join the military and fight overseas and we've started & joined in plenty of non-necessary wars since then. Nothing is off limits when unlimited power & financial gain are at stake, I guess.
dmitryminkovsky 5y ago
I spent a while considering whether to submit this and decided to submit because this seems civilizationally significant. Adjacent as this is to current politics (and therefore outrage/indignation), please: let's keep the discussion within the guidelines and befitting this community.
graeme 5y ago
Anyone have a good theory here? Last I heard from Trump he was urging everyone to “take the great American vaccines” (that he, Trump, sped along, he said) So this isn’t the Republican following the siren song of Trump. They seem to be doing their own thing. And in so doing, making their own job harder because they’ll see more infections. What is this: a grassroots competition to pander to their base which has lumped vaccines in with other pandemic measured they like? I have not delved into their narratives so I’m out of the loop and confused on what is driving things. It isn’t Trump that I can tell.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  Trump has encouraged a general sentiment of opposition to experts, and he's been kind of lukewarm on promoting the vaccines compared to Democrat leaders. Unfortunately, the GOP has increasingly embraced conspiratorial thinking, and that includes vaccine skepticism and hesitation.
  - redis_mlc 5y ago
    > Trump has encouraged a general sentiment of opposition to experts Trump knew since May 2020 that Fauci was lying - he had the DOE LLNL investigate the lab leak theory, and LLNL reported that COVID-19 was possibly from a lab. So yeah, he doesn't believe experts who can't stop lying. https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/exclusive-classified-study-found-covid-19-could-have-originated-in-chinese-lab https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/exclusive-classified-stud... > he's been kind of lukewarm on promoting the vaccines compared to Democrat leaders Trump's Warpspeed (Spring 2020) funded the vaccines. I haven't heard him say any negative things about them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed Republicans/Trumpists believe in personal choice, so I wouldn't expect him to be a cheerleader for getting a shot. > the GOP has increasingly embraced conspiratorial thinking, After Fauci lying for over a year, 2 failed impeachments, being deplatformed on social media, being told they have no standing to dispute elections, being told CRT doesn't exist - half of the country knows what a Marxist conspiracy feels like first-hand, and they're pissed. Most of the major stories about Trump since 2019 on CNN, MSNBC and WaPo have been retracted in 2021 (after the election). I suggest you stop reading those sources and spend a couple months reading Fox and NTD - I can't think of anything they're retracted. Do a Youtube search for "cpac trump full speech 2021" - the only full version is on Sky Australia's channel - for now. All the copies on US channels have been blocked or prevented.
ygmelnikova 5y ago
"An estimated 95,000 people (approximately 68,000 men and 27,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually" "Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths annually." "Unhealthy diet contributes to approximately 678,000 deaths each year in the U.S." But forget all that. The real issue is Covid.
javajosh 5y ago
So apparently the kerfuffle started when someone posted a memo to social media, according to (now fired) official Michelle Fiscus: https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/health/2021/07/12/covid-19-tennessee-fired-vaccine-official-michelle-fiscus-fears-state/7945291002/ https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/health/2021/07/12/covi... Someone thought this memo, which was a technical legal document distributed to medical providers, was undermining parents choice. A lot of Tennessians agreed, called their state senators, etc, and now this happens. The argument that it undermines parental authority is stupid, and I won't talk about that. What's more interesting is that this is a very clear cut case of the real-world harm social media can do. The tide of outrage and ignorance can be powerful and is unchecked by its own absurdity. The emotional appeal to Trumpians who already feel victimized, bitter, and antagonistic to government, especially WRT healthcare, is unmistakable. It doesn't matter if it makes sense logically, or is inconsistent with Trumps own statements. The outrage is the point. The people in power who encourage ride these tidal waves of dangerous ignorance endanger us all in a very real way. Since all forms of self-restraint are now passe, apparently, it's time to consider options for restraining them.
- staticautomatic 5y ago
  Social media no doubt facilitates this kind of harm but by no means causes it.
  - em-bee 5y ago
    it not just facilitates it, but it magnifies it allowing it to grow faster than corrections can be made. and that's the real danger.
    - joe_the_user 5y ago
      What facilitates this is combination of ideology, vested-interests and rumor-spreading/news-crafting. The satanic child abuse scare of the 90s is an example of this sort of thing, as were most of the actual lynching that occurred in the first of half of 20th century.
    - 5y ago
yongjik 5y ago
I miss the good old days when conservatives would argue "Stop painting conservatives as anti-science! Don't you see how many anti-vaxxers are coastal liberals?"
manwe150 5y ago
Anyone else feel like this is quite the devils choice they faced: either they kept recommending vaccinations based on the strong data that it is best for nearly everyone’s health[no citation needed] against fears that this will undermine trust in the agency due to ignoring political pressure, or stop recommending it based on pressure from the public, and thus proving they aren’t trustworthy to make public health recommendations based on scientific data and study. I feel kinda bad for the whole situation this year. It is just so disheartening both ways.
renewiltord 5y ago
Honestly, this is a great natural experiment you can't run otherwise ethically. A populace have chosen this for themselves. That has so many advantages. What if MMR-2 and friends actually do ruin shit. My prior on this is low, but also I am willing to observe others sacrifice their kids to this to protect against the long tail event. I'm pretty pro-vax but I'm also very pro-freedom, and I am particularly pro the freedom for other people to put themselves in risky situations when I can extract knowledge from it. I think Tennesseans overall will probably react to requests to go pro-vax by doubling down, so it's probably best to do that. Makes the experiment stronger. And creates a viable population in case we all drop dead ten years from now, or it turns out vaccines reduce sperm count or some random shit like that. To put it simply: "Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I am willing to make".
- rpmisms 5y ago
  This is a very utilitarian, but very good, point. My parents chose not to vaccinate me, I had most of the childhood diseases, and life went on. I would be happy to answer some surveys about my general health for the purpose of actually comparing vaccinated versus unvaccinated people.
  - pseudalopex 5y ago
    Humanity ran this experiment for childhood diseases already. What do you think surveying you would add to generations of population studies? Life didn't go on for many children in the control groups unfortunately.
    - rpmisms 5y ago
      Healthcare has also advanced vastly since vaccines were introduced, so even if someone gets a severe case of measles, they're still likely to survive. The same principle applies to STDs like Syphilis. It used to be a death sentence, now it's annoying.
koonsolo 5y ago
In Belgium, the Polio vaccination is mandatory. It seems they came very close to completely eradicating it from the world. But it seems crazy religious people prevented it. Reading something like this is just very sad. When one of the kids catches Polio, they will soon realize the importance of vaccination.
- Markoff 5y ago
  Except coronavirus aint polio for kids, you are comparing apples and oranges, coronavirus affects old and obese and we know this already for year, yet pharmalobby and politicians keep pushing vaccines to healthy people especially children at basically zero risk.
  - koonsolo 5y ago
    The article talks about ALL vaccines, so yes, it includes Polio

Make Polio Great Again!

As someone currently self-employed in Nashville and trying to figure out how to scale up my network of part-time contractors into a real company, my state legislature making decisions like this (and also needlessly harassing trans folks) is incredibly frustrating. How can I ask people who work for me to live here?

Nextgrid 5y ago
Apologies for off-topic but are you the one who “records as they always do in Nashville, Tennessee”? If so, I want to say thanks so much for your videos - they have been an amazing source of entertainment during my teenage years.
hirsin 5y ago
Don't? We're in the midst of a great realization that you don't need to be physically near someone to work with them. Alternately, ensure they have sufficient pay and benefits to ignore the GOP restrictions and then hope they help vote them out.
- IgorPartola 5y ago
  So show my remote-only plumber isn’t doing it for me…
newsyyswen 5y ago
Have you tried telling them about the great BBQ and blues? I dunno what to tell you. After touring almost all of our great states, the only constant seems to be that you get what your neighbors vote for.
1123581321 5y ago
I realize this is rhetorical, but the answer is that the majority of people aren’t single or double issue voters. They may be seeking to live in TN to avoid downsides of other states, making a tradeoff. And then there are people who are politically diametric to you who are also great employees; these you probably don’t need to sell the idea of residency as much. Between these two groups, there are enough such people to sustain job markets in every state.
- darig 5y ago
  I realize this is rhetorical, but do you want to work in a building full of anti-vaxxers?
- sterlind 5y ago
  most people, sure. but I'm trans and I don't think I'd like to live in a state that's harassing me. there's legitimate concerns about how livable places are for certain groups based on state policy and community prejudice.
  - 1123581321 5y ago
    Note I didn’t even say “most people,” just majority. I know there are plenty of single-issue voters and residency selectors too.
  - rorykoehler 5y ago
    I'm not trans and I also wouldn't like to live somewhere where trans people are harassed. It's just not a vibe I want in my life.
caseysoftware 5y ago
Vote with your feet. Move somewhere you find more friendly to you and your potential hires.
- takeda 5y ago
  No matter where you go, those states will still have 2 senators that will affect you. So while I can't dictate what others should do, I would prefer if more people would come and affected the local government instead.
mmastrac 5y ago
It's easy: don't. I am struggling with the same thing up here in Alberta and it's just impossible to make any headway against an electorate that continues to vote this way. It's not worth your time and it's better to focus on hiring out of state/province or moving. EDIT: fellow Albertans feel free to email me on my profile (lots of us here!)
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  Yeah, Alberta being Alberta makes it hard to bring people here who didn't grow up here.
  - mc32 5y ago
    Except for Newfies...
- bawolff 5y ago
  Idk, kenney has screwed things up so badly that the next election might be a real competition. https://338canada.com/alberta/polls.htm https://338canada.com/alberta/polls.htm
- joe_hills 5y ago
  Relocating before hiring full-time employees is probably my best move. I've got a kid, though, so I'm currently trying to assess where we can afford to move that inspires confidence that we can really build something there. If we have to go, I don't wanna move again before she goes to college in a decade.
  - IgorPartola 5y ago
    Durham-Raleigh is young, lots of tech there, and real estate isn’t insane. You’ll also be close to some great incubators and Angel investors.
    - staticautomatic 5y ago
      Real estate has been getting pretty frothy there for a while.
stirfish 5y ago
Do you have to stay in Nashville? Moving for better opportunities is just about the most American thing a person can do
- joe_hills 5y ago
  I could make the same amount of money anywhere with internet at this point, so there's no obvious place to move in particular. I loved the idea of hitting the West Coast until the smoke of the last few years caused me to reconsider. As I consider if climate extremes are likely to keep getting worse, upstate New York or Vermont are seeming more and more viable to me.
  - stirfish 5y ago
    Vermont is one of my favorite states in the union. The state motto is "freedom and unity" and you get the feeling that everyone is on the same team there. New Hampshire's state motto is "live free or die." If you die in New Hampshire, it's probably because someone else was living free.
    - renewiltord 5y ago
      It always amazes me that so many "freedom" states heavily police individual behaviour more than I have experienced in the Bay Area, which doesn't have that rhetoric. I can go buy magic mushrooms here, but in so-called Freedomland you can't even eat what you want. Whacky. I moved to Texas for a short while and hoo boy, Austin is nice, but the peeps in Texas really love to tell the government to tread on them. You can't even get weed brownies here. Talk about big government.
      - _huayra_ 5y ago
        These folks shout "freedom" because shouting "fascism" is too overt. I remember how some of my family in southern California was so upset that prop 8 (banning gay marriage) was overturned by the supreme court, and I'm honestly impressed by the level of cognitive dissonance they could hold in their head: simultaneously talking about "muH FrE3DomS" yet wanting to curtail the same freedoms to other people that, in those people exercising those freedoms, have zero impact on their lives. When I pointed it out to them, they basically sputtered something incoherent about "well I'll have to explain to cousin Timmy why those MEN are holding hands in Safeway!". idk maybe suck less as a parent?!
ghotli 5y ago
I'm confused. Why ask people who work for you to live where you are? Is it actually important or does that opinion just have momentum. I also live in Tennessee but have been a remote worker for a decade. I deeply disagree with the politics of this place but you know, family's here. I think they just think they are right, regardless of if their claims are backed by evidence or care / concern for secondary consequences like you are describing. Flip the seats. If only it were so simple. P.S. Check out how cringe the Tennessee "quality of life" page reads. Three clicks off of the homepage of TN.gov. TLDR: Tennessee, "we keep it cheap" https://tnecd.com/advantages/quality-of-life/ https://tnecd.com/advantages/quality-of-life/
- joe_hills 5y ago
  I work in video production and could use an engineer in-studio while I'm broadcasting to deal with tech on the fly. I'm hitting the ceiling on what I can do by myself during a live show.
  - ghotli 5y ago
    Perfectly reasonable, hope you find good talent :)
- mandelbrotwurst 5y ago
  Many jobs are location dependent for pragmatic reasons, e.g. firefighters can't reasonably suppress fires 1000 miles away.
dvdhnt 5y ago
Living in Chattanooga, and watching as TN politics continue to leave me dumbfounded, I've come to believe that no matter where you are in this country, rural is rural and urban is urban. Upstate NY is just like rural TN. Sure, the state government seems to be more liberal, but it has many scandals and the same political sleaze as TN. In the end, the best thing we can do is to insulate ourselves and our loved ones from government intervention, focus on local politics, and take control of our own consumption i.e. we can't rely on the government to do what's best for our children. We should use these high paying remote jobs to buy nice homes with lots of space and access to good schools and healthcare. The rest of it will sort of work itself out. And if we're being honest, climate change will get us before the government here can /shrug
- stirfish 5y ago
  >And if we're being honest, climate change will get us before the government here can The future is FEMA
- rayiner 5y ago
  > In the end, the best thing we can do is to insulate ourselves and our loved ones from government intervention, focus on local politics, and take control of our own consumption i.e. we can't rely on the government to do what's best for our children. We feel that way too! So why don't you leave us alone? (If you hadn't noticed its not 1992 and nobody is trying to teach your kids abstinence-only education anymore.)
  - macmccann 5y ago
    In suburban Ohio public school, I was taught abstinence-only education in 2013. Could have changed since then though
  - lazulicurio 5y ago
    > We feel that way too! So why don't you leave us alone? (If you hadn't noticed its not 1992 and nobody is trying to teach your kids abstinence-only education anymore.) You made a similar bad-faith false-equalivance elsewhere in this thread. > > If we allow you adult choices, and you make choices that harm others > So we can go back to banning adultery and divorce? Forgive my language, but what utter crap. It's a vaccine against a deadly and contagious virus. You want to be left alone to drink your flavor aid? Be my guest. But you don't get to dump cyanide in the well and claim it's your right to do so.
nodesocket 5y ago
I moved me and my company from San Francisco in 2018 and absolutely love it here in Nashville. I suspect we may have clashing world and political views, but that’s not the point. Nashville is an amazing city, opportunity is unlimited, amazing night life, food, culture, and of course music. Southern is way more my style and speed. > How can I ask people who work for me to live here? Frankly, there is already enough demand and highly qualified people moving here.
- taylodl 5y ago
  I'm a Yank but my wife and daughter went to Nashville to look at Vanderbilt University - and they loved it, both the University and Nashville. From what I've seen Nashville is beautiful. I've even thought about relocating or longer term retiring to the Nashville area but I have this little voice in my head always saying "but it's the South..." and frankly, stories like this tend to amplify that voice. P.S. I'm really into music and Nashville's music scene is very appealing, despite the state politics. So I'm definitely conflicted.
  - nodesocket 5y ago
    Nashville is a really blue dot in a red state that is Tennessee. If Nashville isn't liberal enough for you, then perhaps best to stay on the coasts. I actually feel Nashville is turning into the thing and ideologies I fled (California and San Francisco) with all the people moving here from Illinois, New York, and California.
Proven 5y ago
> How can I ask people who work for me to live here? Are you kidding me? How can you ask other people to fund this outreach for the benfit of your and your employees? You are responsible for your being informed. Nobody prevents you or your family or workers from being vaccinated. What has this world come to...

version_five 5y ago

There are two ways you can look at this. What I expect is people will mock and call citizens and lawmakers ignorant, and call for some tougher mechanism to make sure people get vaccinated. The other is that when you push too hard, you get pushback, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, etc. We are seeing this in other areas too, where pushing too hard on a liberal democratic (for lack of a better term) agenda leads to populist revolt, and effectively swings the pendulum way back past where most agree it reasonably should be. Until recently, it would only have been an extreme fringe group that was against long standing childhood vaccines. But it's not a surprise that when you start pushing people to do something, they start to become more wary and reject things that they previously would have accepted at face value. There is a pathway to authoritarianism where resistant is met by more and harsher rules, and one to a more enlightened society where people are treated like adults and mostly make the right choice.

kjs3 5y ago
So we pander to idiots. Great plan.
gruez 5y ago
>The other is that when you push too hard, you get pushback, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, etc What type of "outreach" programs can be described as being closer to "vinegar" than "honey"?
- kyleee 5y ago
  Maybe #nojabnojob ? I'm sure there are others
  - pseudalopex 5y ago
    That's a policy some companies have chosen. Not a Tennessee Department of Health outreach program.
    - overboard2 5y ago

caseysoftware 5y ago

It appears the reasoning is: Minors can't legally give consent, therefore asking them to is likely illegal. If we follow that premise, then advertising or giving alcohol to minors should be illegal too.. and it is! Like it or not, it sounds like sensible legal reasoning.

khuey 5y ago
The difference is that things that are good for you are good for you and things that are bad for you are bad for you.
- ericls 5y ago
  Human beings can’t definitively define good or bad without human defined boundary conditions. Be VERY careful with these two words in their general meaning.
woodruffw 5y ago
Minors can't give consent, so their parents grant consent on their behalf. The salient difference between vaccines (or any medical treatment) and making your child drink alcohol is that one is good for them and the other is abuse. There's an overwhelmingly large body of law dedicated to this.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- caseysoftware 5y ago
  Yes, exactly. Then they should focus outreach to those parents.. which is what's happening.
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    I'm sorry, but what? The article mentions receiving postcards and other information at the minor's home, which is presumably their guardian's home. Is the state of Tennessee not allowed to address children by their name when informing a household that a minor is due for a vaccine?

spoonjim 5y ago

It’s amazing to see how vaccines have become a political football in the last 25 years. It makes me pretty cynical about the long-term prospects of humanity, that so much of the population is vulnerable to self-destructive memes like this. It’s like finding out that all your Bitcoin is on a fleet of unpatched Windows 98 machines that can’t be upgraded.

tehwebguy 5y ago
I think it's the new version of starting a war. Similarly, it's completely unconscionable that someone would start a war and send thousands or millions of their own people to kill other people and/or die for any reason other than to stop some massively worse event from happening, but our presidents do it constantly. It was only 12 years before my birth that the US stopped forcing 18 year olds to join the military and fight overseas and we've started & joined in plenty of non-necessary wars since then. Nothing is off limits when unlimited power & financial gain are at stake, I guess.

dmitryminkovsky 5y ago

I spent a while considering whether to submit this and decided to submit because this seems civilizationally significant. Adjacent as this is to current politics (and therefore outrage/indignation), please: let's keep the discussion within the guidelines and befitting this community.

graeme 5y ago

Anyone have a good theory here? Last I heard from Trump he was urging everyone to “take the great American vaccines” (that he, Trump, sped along, he said) So this isn’t the Republican following the siren song of Trump. They seem to be doing their own thing. And in so doing, making their own job harder because they’ll see more infections. What is this: a grassroots competition to pander to their base which has lumped vaccines in with other pandemic measured they like? I have not delved into their narratives so I’m out of the loop and confused on what is driving things. It isn’t Trump that I can tell.

TulliusCicero 5y ago
Trump has encouraged a general sentiment of opposition to experts, and he's been kind of lukewarm on promoting the vaccines compared to Democrat leaders. Unfortunately, the GOP has increasingly embraced conspiratorial thinking, and that includes vaccine skepticism and hesitation.
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  > Trump has encouraged a general sentiment of opposition to experts Trump knew since May 2020 that Fauci was lying - he had the DOE LLNL investigate the lab leak theory, and LLNL reported that COVID-19 was possibly from a lab. So yeah, he doesn't believe experts who can't stop lying. https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/exclusive-classified-study-found-covid-19-could-have-originated-in-chinese-lab https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/exclusive-classified-stud... > he's been kind of lukewarm on promoting the vaccines compared to Democrat leaders Trump's Warpspeed (Spring 2020) funded the vaccines. I haven't heard him say any negative things about them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed Republicans/Trumpists believe in personal choice, so I wouldn't expect him to be a cheerleader for getting a shot. > the GOP has increasingly embraced conspiratorial thinking, After Fauci lying for over a year, 2 failed impeachments, being deplatformed on social media, being told they have no standing to dispute elections, being told CRT doesn't exist - half of the country knows what a Marxist conspiracy feels like first-hand, and they're pissed. Most of the major stories about Trump since 2019 on CNN, MSNBC and WaPo have been retracted in 2021 (after the election). I suggest you stop reading those sources and spend a couple months reading Fox and NTD - I can't think of anything they're retracted. Do a Youtube search for "cpac trump full speech 2021" - the only full version is on Sky Australia's channel - for now. All the copies on US channels have been blocked or prevented.

ygmelnikova 5y ago

"An estimated 95,000 people (approximately 68,000 men and 27,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually" "Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths annually." "Unhealthy diet contributes to approximately 678,000 deaths each year in the U.S." But forget all that. The real issue is Covid.

javajosh 5y ago

So apparently the kerfuffle started when someone posted a memo to social media, according to (now fired) official Michelle Fiscus: https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/health/2021/07/12/covid-19-tennessee-fired-vaccine-official-michelle-fiscus-fears-state/7945291002/ https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/health/2021/07/12/covi... Someone thought this memo, which was a technical legal document distributed to medical providers, was undermining parents choice. A lot of Tennessians agreed, called their state senators, etc, and now this happens. The argument that it undermines parental authority is stupid, and I won't talk about that. What's more interesting is that this is a very clear cut case of the real-world harm social media can do. The tide of outrage and ignorance can be powerful and is unchecked by its own absurdity. The emotional appeal to Trumpians who already feel victimized, bitter, and antagonistic to government, especially WRT healthcare, is unmistakable. It doesn't matter if it makes sense logically, or is inconsistent with Trumps own statements. The outrage is the point. The people in power who encourage ride these tidal waves of dangerous ignorance endanger us all in a very real way. Since all forms of self-restraint are now passe, apparently, it's time to consider options for restraining them.

staticautomatic 5y ago
Social media no doubt facilitates this kind of harm but by no means causes it.
- em-bee 5y ago
  it not just facilitates it, but it magnifies it allowing it to grow faster than corrections can be made. and that's the real danger.
  - joe_the_user 5y ago
    What facilitates this is combination of ideology, vested-interests and rumor-spreading/news-crafting. The satanic child abuse scare of the 90s is an example of this sort of thing, as were most of the actual lynching that occurred in the first of half of 20th century.
  - 5y ago

yongjik 5y ago

I miss the good old days when conservatives would argue "Stop painting conservatives as anti-science! Don't you see how many anti-vaxxers are coastal liberals?"

manwe150 5y ago

Anyone else feel like this is quite the devils choice they faced: either they kept recommending vaccinations based on the strong data that it is best for nearly everyone’s health[no citation needed] against fears that this will undermine trust in the agency due to ignoring political pressure, or stop recommending it based on pressure from the public, and thus proving they aren’t trustworthy to make public health recommendations based on scientific data and study. I feel kinda bad for the whole situation this year. It is just so disheartening both ways.

renewiltord 5y ago

Honestly, this is a great natural experiment you can't run otherwise ethically. A populace have chosen this for themselves. That has so many advantages. What if MMR-2 and friends actually do ruin shit. My prior on this is low, but also I am willing to observe others sacrifice their kids to this to protect against the long tail event. I'm pretty pro-vax but I'm also very pro-freedom, and I am particularly pro the freedom for other people to put themselves in risky situations when I can extract knowledge from it. I think Tennesseans overall will probably react to requests to go pro-vax by doubling down, so it's probably best to do that. Makes the experiment stronger. And creates a viable population in case we all drop dead ten years from now, or it turns out vaccines reduce sperm count or some random shit like that. To put it simply: "Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I am willing to make".

rpmisms 5y ago
This is a very utilitarian, but very good, point. My parents chose not to vaccinate me, I had most of the childhood diseases, and life went on. I would be happy to answer some surveys about my general health for the purpose of actually comparing vaccinated versus unvaccinated people.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  Humanity ran this experiment for childhood diseases already. What do you think surveying you would add to generations of population studies? Life didn't go on for many children in the control groups unfortunately.
  - rpmisms 5y ago
    Healthcare has also advanced vastly since vaccines were introduced, so even if someone gets a severe case of measles, they're still likely to survive. The same principle applies to STDs like Syphilis. It used to be a death sentence, now it's annoying.

koonsolo 5y ago

In Belgium, the Polio vaccination is mandatory. It seems they came very close to completely eradicating it from the world. But it seems crazy religious people prevented it. Reading something like this is just very sad. When one of the kids catches Polio, they will soon realize the importance of vaccination.

Markoff 5y ago
Except coronavirus aint polio for kids, you are comparing apples and oranges, coronavirus affects old and obese and we know this already for year, yet pharmalobby and politicians keep pushing vaccines to healthy people especially children at basically zero risk.
- koonsolo 5y ago
  The article talks about ALL vaccines, so yes, it includes Polio