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Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

376 points by jonbaer 5y ago

Spivak 5y ago
Compared to Google’s approach for YouTube this seems like a pretty good trade in accuracy for not having to have a credit card on file for every user just to check ages.
- gruez 5y ago
  Giving a company daily scans of your face is much worse than a credit card number. Your face can't be changed, and can be used to identify in public (at least while you're walking around). Meanwhile a credit card number can be changed at will (just call your bank), and can't be used to identify you in public. If a company holding your credit card number gets hacked, that can be resolved with a 10 minute call to you bank. Good luck undoing a hack after they stole high quality training data (deepfakes? surveillance?) for your face.
  - bastawhiz 5y ago
    > Your face can't be changed Well it can, but not easily
  - lmm 5y ago
    Is it really? If I visited a traditional physical shop, I'd expect the staff to be able to recognise my face, but I probably wouldn't want them to know my credit card number.
    - gruez 5y ago
      >I'd expect the staff to be able to recognise my face Right, but that ability is limited to them. If I want to opt out of the tracking, all I have to do is shop at another store, or wait until they forget. Worst case I can flee to another town. On the other hand the tencent surveillance botnet is (or will be) omnipresent. You won't be able to avoid it because they'll have cameras everywhere. >but I probably wouldn't want them to know my credit card number. Maybe not at a store, but handing your credit card to the waiter at a restaurant is still pretty common.
      - lmm 5y ago
        > If I want to opt out of the tracking, all I have to do is shop at another store Until recently it was quite normal that stores wouldn't let you in if you were covering your face. > Maybe not at a store, but handing your credit card to the waiter at a restaurant is still pretty common. WTF? Not where I live it isn't. Even pre-Corona people knew not to let someone else touch your card.
        gruez 5y ago
        >Until recently it was quite normal that stores wouldn't let you in if you were covering your face. The point isn't that you can cover your face, it's that the recognition ability is limited to that one employee at the store. That means if you don't want to be recognized you can go to another store/town (yes, your face is still visible but unless you're starting a commotion you'll be forgotten in less than 24 hours).
      - sellyme 5y ago
        > handing your credit card to the waiter at a restaurant is still pretty common I believe this is one of those things that's almost exclusively an Americanism. Where I live (Australia) you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone that would ever eat at the restaurant again if the waiter tried to take their card.
    - username90 5y ago
      You never paid with a credit card at a store? I feel people are much more ok with that than being filmed. Credit card numbers are meant to be sent to companies, pictures of your face aren't.
im3w1l 5y ago
Microsofts decision to require cameras in windows 11 will enable initiatives like this.
- gruez 5y ago
  >Microsofts decision to require cameras in windows 11 except it's laptop only and only applies to systems sold by OEMs. Speaking of which, when was the last time you saw a laptop that didn't have a webcam? Laptops were pretty common even on low-mid tier laptops from the early 00s. For fun let's also exclude the niche laptops like pinebook or what have you, because I doubt buyers of those laptops need the OEM to pre-install windows for them.
  - Causality1 5y ago
    What about boutique vendors?
  - Tade0 5y ago
    > Speaking of which, when was the last time you saw a laptop that didn't have a webcam? Asus Zephyrus G14. I see it as a safety feature.
    - enlyth 5y ago
      Seems more like a missing feature, you can physically cover your webcam if you're that paranoid.
      - Tade0 5y ago
        You can, but that's an additional thing to think of. My work laptop has a built-in camera cover, but I don't remember to keep it open/closed.
  - im3w1l 5y ago
    > Speaking of which, when was the last time you saw a laptop that didn't have a webcam? That's just it. It's already extremely common so why would you even need to require it? Who cares about 99% market penetration vs 100%? Consumers? Game devs? No they are fine with 99%. The only actor who cares about the difference is the government.
BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
It’s a horrible invasion of privacy and personal liberty, but hey, it isn’t the government doing it and you agreed to this when you accepted the terms of service. /s
- gruez 5y ago
  Tencent: "show me your face or I won't let you pay my game", me: "fine I won't play your game then" Government: "show me your face or else[1]", me: "r-right away sir" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence
  - rowanG077 5y ago
    So you expect people to live without any entertainment? Just work eat and sleep I guess.
    - gruez 5y ago
      Tencent has a monopoly on entertainment?
      - rowanG077 5y ago
        No but you are apparently oke with entertainment requiring face scans to access. If Tencent can do it it won't be long untill every large publisher does it.
        CryptoPunk 5y ago
        If people only want to produce games that require giving up your privacy to play, then you have to make a choice between giving up games, or giving up privacy. Ultimately those are the only choices available to you that don't involve bending peaceful people to your will under pain of imprisonment. Perhaps a third choice, that also doesn't require resorting interfering with other people's private choices, with legal threats that emanate from the state's monopoly on violence, is to lobby to allocate a portion of public funds to subsidizing game publishers that respect privacy. In any case, even a modest portion of the population choosing to avoid privacy-compromising game publishers would establish a market for privacy-preserving games. So this is really a matter of consumers educating themselves and making responsible choices. The real problem here is likely the state stepping in to force all game publishers who attain Tencent's market reach to institute these kinds of measures.
rowanG077 5y ago
Everytime I think software is already ridiculous and going to far something happens that goes so far I can hardly believe it. This is one of those things. It won't take long at this rate until it's completely normal for the software of big companies deciding what you can and can't do at all times during the day.
Negitivefrags 5y ago
In China it is the law that minors have restrictions on playing video games between 10pm and 8am. I suspect that on this forum there would be a mix of opinion about if that is a good idea or not. I mean, personally I think it should be up to parents to manage this, but I can totally see how some would have the opposite opinion about it. I don't think it's totally out of bounds as a concept for government to regulate this. I have seen plenty of people calling for laws regulating mystery boxes for example on this very forum, and you could have the exact same parental responsibility argument there too. The main difference is that in the US, were such a law passed, then tech companies would do some minimum amount of compliance such as requiring that you send a picture of ID or some such and then call it done. If minors manage to get around that by getting photos of their parents ID, well, what is a company to do? In China the government doesn't care about your excuses. Children are playing your game anyway? Well, we are shutting you down then. The result is this kind of thing.
- sadgrip 5y ago
  Well I'm very interested to see how this plays out. Knowing what I know about kids it seems like China is making the mistake helicopter parents. Some of the already over achieving kids might respond well to this but frankly as ridiculous as it sounds this is how you end up building generations who resent their government.
- ajot 5y ago
  > I have seen plenty of people calling for laws regulating mystery boxes for example on this very forum, and you could have the exact same parental responsibility argument there too. Although I totally get your point, I think there's a difference between both laws. "Loot box law" would limit what a company (or any legal person) can do, trying to save some physical person (a child) from some kind of harm (addiction) effected from the company.The "gaming law" limits what the physical person can do with their own time. I understand how a law that limits third-parties (and mostly, companies) is perceived different than a law that limits the self (or invades the responsibilities of the parents inside a family).
rococode 5y ago
For context, these are China's current restrictions on gaming for minors (under age 18): - Maximum 1.5 hours of gaming on weekdays - Maximum 3 hours of gaming on weekends - No games between 10pm and 8am (note that school typically starts between 7 and 8am) South Korea has similar types of restrictions, by the way. No gaming for minors (under 16) between midnight and 6am. I think Vietnam may have something similar as well.
- chillwaves 5y ago
  Not that I don't believe you, but Chinese teams compete at the highest levels of competitive gaming. There has to be some loopholes. Same goes for South Korea. Actually, China and South Korea are the two most dominant regions for many games.
  - komaromy 5y ago
    Are there minors on the top-level Chinese teams?
    - dieortin 5y ago
      People who have played way less when they were minors would be at a big disadvantage compared to the rest of the world.
    - chillwaves 5y ago
      The average age is around 20 and I doubt they are training to the most competitive levels in just a year or two. > China's most famous e-sports player, Jian Zihao, has officially retired from gaming aged 23, citing ill-health. > He had been a professional gamer since 2012, playing League of Legends under the name of "Uzi". https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52920786 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52920786 He would have been ~15 in 2012.
  - rococode 5y ago
    China's restrictions are pretty new (implemented in 2019) so their long-term impact is yet to be seen. And Korea's law is much less restrictive since kids can play as much as they like before midnight.
deleted 5y ago
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perihelions 5y ago
This is I believe the first time in human history that AI video cameras have been widely deployed, inside private homes, for the purpose of enforcing laws. Never mind the banal details: this is an incredible milestone.
- userbinator 5y ago
  ...a milestone towards the totalitarian dystopia previously only encountered in science fiction.
  - isatty 5y ago
    This shit is so utterly unacceptable and yet there will be no significant mass behind protests against it. Why won’t you think of the children?
    - skocznymroczny 5y ago
      Nah, the new argument is "we need this to prevent spread of covid"
- Proven 5y ago
  They don't enforce anything, they just spy/record. Also those aren't laws, they are merely legislative acts.
- ashleyn 5y ago
  The real clever kids will eventually realise you can just tape a post-it note to your head with "ADULT" written in sharpie.
  - fridif 5y ago
    draw on a fake beard ERROR: CANNOT BEGIN PLAY SESSION UNTIL PLAYER SHAVES FACE
    - AussieWog93 5y ago
optymizer 5y ago
So what happens if a minor staples a cutout of Wolverine's face on their face?
- crvdgc 5y ago
  I don't know if it's deployed in this case, but some facial recognition process in Chinese apps like Alipay requires the user to turn their face left and right to a certain angle, and the whole continuous movement is used for verification.
  - jobigoud 5y ago
    Imagine being an adult and having to submit to that just to play some game at night...
- eunos 5y ago
  These days I assume mobile Computer Vision is smart enough to recognize fake face.
ausumm 5y ago
https://ausum.io/s/0cHhxkrkhPNdXca_jebdvkUQ7CJ7X3I_bWgkDCs_uuE https://ausum.io/s/0cHhxkrkhPNdXca_jebdvkUQ7CJ7X3I_bWgkDCs_u... - generated an audio summary that's 1 minute and 19 seconds, hope this is helpful!
bigmattystyles 5y ago
Obviously, the article's example is scary but I enjoyed this one https://driesdepoorter.be/theflemishscrollers/ https://driesdepoorter.be/theflemishscrollers/
softwaredoug 5y ago
Obviously there’s cultural factors at play, I just wonder whether strategically it’s wise to teach kids externally imposed restrictions rather than learning to restrict themselves intrinsically because something else is worth doing? It’s kind of the metaphor of the kid with the very strict upbringing that has no self control when they move away from their family.
- zucker42 5y ago
  Won't the government have no qualms about eventually applying similar restrictions and enforcement mechanisms to adults?
  - userbinator 5y ago
    I see that as the long-term-goal: it's quite a cliche term by now, but they are really creating sheeple, slowly breeding out the rebelliousness and independent thought to be replaced by docile, obedient worshippers of the government.
    - rorykoehler 5y ago
      It's the one reason why I have hope that Chinese world domination attempts will fall flat. They will just be out thought eventually if they continue down this road.
    - novok 5y ago
      I dunno, the culture also has a strong basis of surface following the rules while getting around them in every way you can, typically way beyond a typical westerner. I think people shouldn't underestimate the way people counter react to rules they do not like or agree with on some level.
  - dehrmann 5y ago
    Eventually?
- zepto 5y ago
  You can move away from your family, but not from government control.
umvi 5y ago
China seems on track to build the ultimate police state
- elia_is_me 5y ago
  it's tencent, not China - tencent just find a smart way to collect personal data. some giants like Tencent or Huawei or Alibaba, etc are always trying to collect citizens' personal data like your face id, your voices, you phone number, .... everything related to you.
  - _rmrf 5y ago
    Tencent works with/for the CCP
  - Valmar 5y ago
    Tencent, for all intents and purposes, IS the CCP. They must act according to the CCP's dictates.
    - elia_is_me 5y ago
      no, ccp is not kind of omnipotent power, especially for companies in south China like Tencent (which located in Shenzheng, Guangdong province) ccp ‘s control is weak. ccp is evil but at least not worse than tencent
underseacables 5y ago
As I read this the first thought that came to mind is if I were a kid, I would be very angry about it, and dedicate myself to defeating the system. I can’t help but hope the kids playing these games feel the same way.
- Uehreka 5y ago
  The problem is that then the CCP won’t respond with “Oh no! They circumvented our invasive measures!” They’ll say “Hmm, they circumvented our invasive measures, I guess we’ll need even more invasive measures that are harder to circumvent.” This isn’t a game kids are gonna be able to win if the government is sufficiently committed to this goal.
  - Closi 5y ago
    Absolutely, and it also depends on enforcement. If you know there is no punishment for circumventing controls, then you would do it, however if you thought that circumvention might result in the CPP knocking on your door you would think twice.
    - cercatrova 5y ago
      What did C Plus Plus ever do to you?
      - logicchains 5y ago
        cpp isn't C++, it's the c preprocessor. Go type it in a Linux terminal if you don't believe me.
        cercatrova 5y ago
        You are indeed correct, I was just making a joke however.
        Macha 5y ago
        File extensions disagree, on the other hand
deleted 5y ago
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eloisius 5y ago
This is clearly (at least to the Western sensibilities) a vast government overreach into private life, but can we marvel for a second at a company employing AI to curb addictive behavior towards its product? I definitely don't agree with the government mandates dictating how and when you can play video games, but it is kind of incredible to see a company use AI for something other than encouraging addictive behavior like many US tech companies do.
- Closi 5y ago
  Companies like tencent are very different to private companies in the West - and will much more readily do what the Chinese government tells them to do. Private companies in the west will collaborate with the government at all, but they complain more and keep it secret. This move won’t be done from the kindness of their heart and to get kids to reduce gaming consumption - it will be a move they have been instructed to do from the Chinese government. These companies can’t really push back either - if you want an example see what happened to Jack Ma.
- monsieurbanana 5y ago
  Is it? The incredible thing would be if they used AI for something better than addictive behavior. Doing it for something worse is the expected course of action.
- gentleman11 5y ago
  > it is kind of incredible to see a company use AI for something other than encouraging addictive behavior like many US tech companies do. It still falls under the celebrated American umbrella of using ai to manipulate peoples behaviour and thinking
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- oefrha 5y ago
  > employing AI to curb addictive behavior towards its product Not out of goodwill. Tencent profits hugely from gaming addiction, they know it and exploit it to whatever extent they could without drawing serious ire. They use their near monopoly on personal communications (WeChat, QQ) and huge market share on social media (WeChat), video streaming (Tencent Video) and other forms of media to subtly and not-so-subtly push their cash cow games, Honor of Kings being the prime example. I won’t list the shady tactics I’ve heard, which you can hear from I suppose any young urban-dwelling person in China. They are a big part of the problem in the first place.
x081ia2939 5y ago
What worries me is that this is at odds with Tencent's revenue model. How likely it is it that this was planned all along? Would it be possible that it's just the first step (nobody would argue about "protecting" children) to more invasive surveillance?
- SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
  Wait, what? Are you implying that anyone would use concern for children as a Trojan horse to… yea just kidding… nothing new under the sun. My favorite triple fallacy is “We must do something, for the children, even if it just saves one life!”. Where can only consider an action and inaction or other action can’t possibly be right, if it’s for children it must be righteous, and all costs are outweighed by one precious life even though the effect could be greater elsewhere - usually without infringing on people’s rights. This is the plea of the scoundrel that can not win an argument on fact or merit.
- novok 5y ago
  Also a good way to induce paying to win more, because you don't have as much time to grind.
anonymousacc1 5y ago
Here we see an article in which a tech company is using AI in order to protect people from addiction. And we have the Western free-speech aficionados complaining about surveillance while their society is practically crumbling due to the freedom inherent in it (read drug abuse, social media addiction, sex, alcohol and porn addiction). They couldn't get themselves to wear simple masks during covid because of a requirement for freedom. I am an Eastern-educated immigrant who lives in the West. Honestly, I believe freedom is important in a lot of things. However, allowing companies like Coca Cola, Heineken, Robinhood, Youtube and Facebook to operate in the name of giving everyone freedom is one of the worst decisions in the Western world. These companies have exploited human biases to an extent at which our freedom is a manipulated freedom which works according to how they want. The Western concept of freedom above everything is a joke in modern society. It is based on the premise that everyone is smart enough to take decisions for themselves. However, due to inherent human biases, this is practically impossible. What this false assumption leads to is companies like Coca Cola, Heineken (or whatever other alcohol brands are popular), Facebook essentially ruling how we spend our time, money, health and energy. The Western concept of freedom above everything else is flawed
- Tade0 5y ago
  > The Western concept of freedom above everything is a joke in modern society. It is based on the premise that everyone is smart enough to take decisions for themselves. That's a misconception. The actual reasoning is that: 1. Everyone is equal in rights and responsibilities. 2. Those who use their rights wisely bring more value than the cost of decisions of those who don't. For some things 2. doesn't hold, so they're regulated. Motoring in general comes to mind as an example.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    The reasoning you cite is a retcon of the original reasoning that the OP got right. Beyond that, #1 is factually incorrect, Facebook has positive rights that you don't, and #2 almost never holds starting from the realization that you're assuming that profit is inherently wise and that maximizing profit almost always requires the maximization of externatility. So using your rights wisely to your maximum advantage essentially never brings the most value.
malwarebytess 5y ago
So that's how it begins.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  Begins? It began years if not decades ago already.
  - malwarebytess 5y ago
    ubiquitous machine intelligence spying by networked devices in the home on behalf of or by the state? I don't think so. Technology wasn't there yet. This is a more competent telescreen.
rdiddly 5y ago
It's very ironic, isn't it. They're trying to protect kids. By spying on them.
- takenpilot 5y ago
  It's not ironic at all. All protection is traded with freedom.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  We in "the west" can't claim moral superiority unfortunately, we live in surveillance states ourselves and a ton of laws limiting freedom and removing privacy are made with the intent to "protect children" (and fight terrorism), both of which you can't morally object against. Children are sacred, terrorists are outlaws.
  - w0de0 5y ago
    We absolutely can claim moral superiority, while being open to a critique of our hypocrisy - and to changing our ways based on this critique. To do otherwise than seek and claim moral superiority would be to concede to grim relativism; it would be to discard what progress we have made and what rights we still maintain; it would be to abandon an ideal that can yet still lead us to a better world. Lincoln wrote, in reference to abolition, that he “[would rather move] to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.” [0] But the irony is that hypocrisy drove him and this nation to emancipation, and an improved iteration of the city on a hill. 0 - http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/speed.htm http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/speed.h...
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      The argument basically boils down to the conclusion that we must keep our superiority complex to keep us sane. I'd rather have a correct assessment of myself. The hypocrisy Lincoln is talking about didn't lead his nation to emancipation, they delayed emancipation by over a hundred years. Emancipation was going to happen much earlier otherwise. There is no claim to moral superiority here. I live in the west and I guarantee you the government has facial recognition trained on me, access to public camera and to my phones' camera any time they please, and access to my voice prints. So I don't see why I should feel superior. I don't like lying to myself.
brookmg 5y ago
I wish for the world not to go this direction
- qwertox 5y ago
  So do I, but I've known of a case in the family where the 11 year old kid was left with his phone in such a way that he got into the habit of watching YouTube even after 11 pm on schooldays. He could have had an opportunity of enjoying a good education, but his abuse of his phone and the family's iPad left him with bad grades. So bad, that going to university was no longer an option. There are many career paths in Germany, so one could think that this might not really be an issue, but he also started messing up the alternatives. Now with Corona he is in a full limbo. And this is only close family, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a more widespread issue, so I do appreciate if methods are sought after to avoid these kind of unnecessary problems, which are just a manifestation of bad parenting, but having a camera with an AI behind it watching your every step or possibly listening into your daily life feels like the wrong approach. It is scary.
joaomoreno 5y ago
Yeah, but don't forget to keep making games more and more addictive so we all get rich.
xg15 5y ago
Gaming addiction is absolutely an issue - but it seems to be used to push all kinds of tech that has nothing to do with it. Like, how exactly does real-name registration combat addiction?
re-al 5y ago
This tech is only used is China, right? Our government don't access 'our' tech without permission. But hang on, is this or is this not 'meta-data'? Anyway, with coronavirus, its a must-have. We need our governments to track our moves in order to monitor vectors of attack. We need this tech - why can't we roll it out here?! /s
Tade0 5y ago
Is this an attempt at self-regulation? Perhaps Tencent fears that if they don't introduce limits, the government will hold them responsible for raising a generation addicted to gaming? Looks like a typical simple solution to a complex problem or, in other words, not a solution.
rvz 5y ago
Worldcoin is taking notes on this. Somewhere in the world. But again nothing scary about what Worldcoin, Tencent and others are doing right?
taneq 5y ago
Hmm, two incendiary articles about China on the front page. Either the CCP is truly expanding their publicly totalitarian actions, or someone else has something political to gain. I wonder which it is this time?
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juanani 5y ago
Well, definitely better than using AI to determine/murder Palestinian 'terrorists'.
anonymouszx 5y ago
>2018 >wake up feeling sick after a late night of playing video games >excited to play some halo infinite >"xbox on" >"XBOX ON" >"Please verify that you are "annon332" by saying Doritos™ Dew™ it right!" >"ERROR! Please drink a verification can" >reach into my Dontos Mountain Halo War Chest >only a few cans left, needed to verify 14 times last night >still feeling sick from the 14 >force it down and grumble out "mmmm that really hit the spot" >xbox does nothing >i attempt to smile >"Connecting to verification server" >"Verification complete!" >finally >boot up halo infinite >finding multiplayer match... >"ERRORI User attempting to steal online gameplay!" >my mother just walked in the room >"Adding another user to your pass, this will be charged to your credit card. Do you accept?" >"No!" >"Console entering lock state!" >"to unlock drink verification can" >last can >"WARNING, OUT OF VERIFICATION CANS, an order has been shipped and charged to your credit card" >drink half the can, oh god im going to be sick >pour the last half out the window >"PIRACY DETECTED! PLEASE COMPLETE THIS ADVERTISEMENT TO CONTINUE" >the mountain dew ad plays >i have to dance for it >feeling so sick >makes me sing along >dancing and singing >"mountain dew is for me and you" >throw up on my self >throw up on my tv and entertainment system >router shorts >"ERROR NO CONNECTION! XBOX SHUTTING OFF"
- deleted 5y ago
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- 93po 5y ago
  Xbox actually recently came out with an Xbox branded minifridge and it immediately made me think of this. Sounds like it's an april fools joke but Im pretty sure it's legit
- Chris2048 5y ago
  > the mountain dew ad plays > i have to dance for it This is the real nightmare, active (mandatory) ad participation. Drink the Kool Aid, say "Oh Yeah!!!"
- svieira 5y ago
  MOKEY-COKE! MOKEY-COKE! MOKEY-COKE! (If you've never read Venus, Inc. it's even better than Manna and it's more on-point; and it was written in the 1950s!) https://smile.amazon.com/Venus-Inc-Space-Merchants-War/dp/B00072BHXU/ref=pd_sbs_4/140-7656374-2445244 https://smile.amazon.com/Venus-Inc-Space-Merchants-War/dp/B0...
nirui 5y ago
I saw no spicy comment here, so let me add my: > a time-sensitive facial recognition ... linked with big data from the central public security system ... "We will conduct a face screening for accounts registered with real names and that have played for a certain period of time at night" ... Facial recognition is a welcome sign So here is the image in my head: A man, Mr Zhao, 35 years old, just finished showering, half naked, lying on his bed, playing a Tencent game before sleep. Then, all of a sudden, a pop up showed up, "To protect the flowers of our bright future, please verify you are you, Mr Zhao". Now, think what Mr Zhao would do? Get all dressed up, lights on and fully prepared for the "Verification Interview" with the AI (and maybe a night shift worker at Tencent too)? Nah... Probably not. Hahaha! Poor Mr Zhao, been forced to take a "bed photo", right? Well, it's funny to think until you realized a 8 years old could also lying on his bed a play Tencent game on parents phone before sleep. And what Tencent want to do? Capture optical data and possibly send it to multiple storage and processing sites over the Internet? Yeah, great idea, way to go boy! My final point: I use few Tencent products and I know a lots of smart engineers in Tencent. But been their user, I often just can't understand how can they design their product so wrong. This facial recognition powered "Child Predator" can be an example of that -- High tech? Yes; Very wrong? Yes. Could Tencent please put their talents to good use instead of build something brain-dead like this one?
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  Are you saying 8 yr olds play games with the camera pointed at their penis? A headshot of a topless child is not scandalous. There are issues here, but this isn't it.
  - sidlls 5y ago
    You think a military dictatorship like China isn't going to (mis)use such images to help maintain control? I'd recommend reading some 1984. China is a genocidal, military dictatorship. I wouldn't be surprised if they force a hot war out of the cold one currently brewing.
  - nirui 5y ago
    Problem is, you have no idea what people, not just kid would accidentally point their camera at. And you couple that with lay down position and a touch screen. No need to mention capture imagery of a child (which the system would totally do, and kids will give it a try believe or not) without consent from their parent alone is problematic regardless it's accidental or not. And above all, that system is useless to begin with. Think about following questions: 1) When do you verify? Before, during or after the game? 2) Do you have to verify at the spot at night? 3) How often do you re-verify? BTW, there is an anti game addiction system already in place in China, which is based on photo ID (Resident ID card) verification. In my opinion, the system is doing well enough already even for today's kids. If Tencent really care the addiction that much, maybe they should just shutdown the game server during the night.
mladeny 5y ago
..
- isit2021yet 5y ago
  Boomer
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    For what it's worth I'm a zoomer and I fully agree with who you're replying to.
- isit2021yet 5y ago
  I dont need facial recognition technology, Boomer detected.
- viraptor 5y ago
  Sure, but ideally we'd start by limiting the impact ad/attention-funded companies can have in our lives rather than concentrating on people who obviously will be affected by those companies.
deleted 5y ago
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allochthon 5y ago
Technology, surveillance and privacy in China is an ongoing topic of interest here and in news outlets. (Obviously it's a topic that's of interest in relation to other places as well.) The excesses of one generation can lead to the reforms of a subsequent one, and I'm curious whether there will be a counter-reaction among young people in China if at some point they perceive a line to have been crossed, and where that line might be.
losvedir 5y ago
Horrifying usage aside... I'm curious about the tech here as it relates to structural bias. In the US there are frequent stories about how ML works well on white men, but not, e.g., African Americans and I think Asian Americans. There was that Twitter spat between Timnit Gebru and Andrej Karpathy about this subject, and whether it's "just" training data or inherent in ML, partly because of who runs the analyses and who the wealthy consumers are, etc. Having trained some models and fiddled with hyperparameters myself, I could see the argument that it's a little more than just the training data; for example, how the algorithm uses contrast or what kind of angles it picks up. But what I'm curious about is how well this system works here, developed by a Chinese company with Chinese developers for primarily Chinese users. Does it have better accuracy than Google on the same Chinese data set? Does it have worse accuracy on white people than Google? I imagine the data is not out there, but maybe there's some published research along these lines by Tencent, or others comparing algorithms or models trained on Tencent data sets to the western equivalents?
- godelski 5y ago
  A lot of that bias comes from the dataset used. CelebA is a common one but not the only one. In these datasets the faces are predominantly white. There's also the difficulty that darker faces are more likely to not gather as much detail given certain lighting conditions and so that affects Black people more even if you introduce an equal number of samples (so you need more diversity in lighting conditions for them). That said, Baidu and Tencent have datasets of predominantly Asian faces, so their bias should go in the other direction. Being better at Asian faces (probably they do well on white faces because they can pull from typical research databases), and then not so well at Black faces. But this is just a guess. We can't know without seeing the results (which then it is still hard to determine bias because of how results are presented).
markus_zhang 5y ago
Getting sick of this kind of things. I'm starting to think maybe I should remove as many electronics as possible and start learning electronics myself. It's sad that we are entering the golden age of electronics (with a bit of $$ and knowledge you can build products that are genuinely useful in a couple of weeks) and also the dark age of electronic surveillience. And it's everywhere.
citizenpaul 5y ago
Perfect for https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/

376 points by jonbaer 5y ago

Compared to Google’s approach for YouTube this seems like a pretty good trade in accuracy for not having to have a credit card on file for every user just to check ages.

gruez 5y ago
Giving a company daily scans of your face is much worse than a credit card number. Your face can't be changed, and can be used to identify in public (at least while you're walking around). Meanwhile a credit card number can be changed at will (just call your bank), and can't be used to identify you in public. If a company holding your credit card number gets hacked, that can be resolved with a 10 minute call to you bank. Good luck undoing a hack after they stole high quality training data (deepfakes? surveillance?) for your face.
- bastawhiz 5y ago
  > Your face can't be changed Well it can, but not easily
- lmm 5y ago
  Is it really? If I visited a traditional physical shop, I'd expect the staff to be able to recognise my face, but I probably wouldn't want them to know my credit card number.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >I'd expect the staff to be able to recognise my face Right, but that ability is limited to them. If I want to opt out of the tracking, all I have to do is shop at another store, or wait until they forget. Worst case I can flee to another town. On the other hand the tencent surveillance botnet is (or will be) omnipresent. You won't be able to avoid it because they'll have cameras everywhere. >but I probably wouldn't want them to know my credit card number. Maybe not at a store, but handing your credit card to the waiter at a restaurant is still pretty common.
    - lmm 5y ago
      > If I want to opt out of the tracking, all I have to do is shop at another store Until recently it was quite normal that stores wouldn't let you in if you were covering your face. > Maybe not at a store, but handing your credit card to the waiter at a restaurant is still pretty common. WTF? Not where I live it isn't. Even pre-Corona people knew not to let someone else touch your card.
      - gruez 5y ago
        >Until recently it was quite normal that stores wouldn't let you in if you were covering your face. The point isn't that you can cover your face, it's that the recognition ability is limited to that one employee at the store. That means if you don't want to be recognized you can go to another store/town (yes, your face is still visible but unless you're starting a commotion you'll be forgotten in less than 24 hours).
    - sellyme 5y ago
      > handing your credit card to the waiter at a restaurant is still pretty common I believe this is one of those things that's almost exclusively an Americanism. Where I live (Australia) you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone that would ever eat at the restaurant again if the waiter tried to take their card.
  - username90 5y ago
    You never paid with a credit card at a store? I feel people are much more ok with that than being filmed. Credit card numbers are meant to be sent to companies, pictures of your face aren't.

im3w1l 5y ago

Microsofts decision to require cameras in windows 11 will enable initiatives like this.

gruez 5y ago
>Microsofts decision to require cameras in windows 11 except it's laptop only and only applies to systems sold by OEMs. Speaking of which, when was the last time you saw a laptop that didn't have a webcam? Laptops were pretty common even on low-mid tier laptops from the early 00s. For fun let's also exclude the niche laptops like pinebook or what have you, because I doubt buyers of those laptops need the OEM to pre-install windows for them.
- Causality1 5y ago
  What about boutique vendors?
- Tade0 5y ago
  > Speaking of which, when was the last time you saw a laptop that didn't have a webcam? Asus Zephyrus G14. I see it as a safety feature.
  - enlyth 5y ago
    Seems more like a missing feature, you can physically cover your webcam if you're that paranoid.
    - Tade0 5y ago
      You can, but that's an additional thing to think of. My work laptop has a built-in camera cover, but I don't remember to keep it open/closed.
- im3w1l 5y ago
  > Speaking of which, when was the last time you saw a laptop that didn't have a webcam? That's just it. It's already extremely common so why would you even need to require it? Who cares about 99% market penetration vs 100%? Consumers? Game devs? No they are fine with 99%. The only actor who cares about the difference is the government.

BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago

It’s a horrible invasion of privacy and personal liberty, but hey, it isn’t the government doing it and you agreed to this when you accepted the terms of service. /s

gruez 5y ago
Tencent: "show me your face or I won't let you pay my game", me: "fine I won't play your game then" Government: "show me your face or else[1]", me: "r-right away sir" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence
- rowanG077 5y ago
  So you expect people to live without any entertainment? Just work eat and sleep I guess.
  - gruez 5y ago
    Tencent has a monopoly on entertainment?
    - rowanG077 5y ago
      No but you are apparently oke with entertainment requiring face scans to access. If Tencent can do it it won't be long untill every large publisher does it.
      - CryptoPunk 5y ago
        If people only want to produce games that require giving up your privacy to play, then you have to make a choice between giving up games, or giving up privacy. Ultimately those are the only choices available to you that don't involve bending peaceful people to your will under pain of imprisonment. Perhaps a third choice, that also doesn't require resorting interfering with other people's private choices, with legal threats that emanate from the state's monopoly on violence, is to lobby to allocate a portion of public funds to subsidizing game publishers that respect privacy. In any case, even a modest portion of the population choosing to avoid privacy-compromising game publishers would establish a market for privacy-preserving games. So this is really a matter of consumers educating themselves and making responsible choices. The real problem here is likely the state stepping in to force all game publishers who attain Tencent's market reach to institute these kinds of measures.

rowanG077 5y ago

Everytime I think software is already ridiculous and going to far something happens that goes so far I can hardly believe it. This is one of those things. It won't take long at this rate until it's completely normal for the software of big companies deciding what you can and can't do at all times during the day.

Negitivefrags 5y ago

In China it is the law that minors have restrictions on playing video games between 10pm and 8am. I suspect that on this forum there would be a mix of opinion about if that is a good idea or not. I mean, personally I think it should be up to parents to manage this, but I can totally see how some would have the opposite opinion about it. I don't think it's totally out of bounds as a concept for government to regulate this. I have seen plenty of people calling for laws regulating mystery boxes for example on this very forum, and you could have the exact same parental responsibility argument there too. The main difference is that in the US, were such a law passed, then tech companies would do some minimum amount of compliance such as requiring that you send a picture of ID or some such and then call it done. If minors manage to get around that by getting photos of their parents ID, well, what is a company to do? In China the government doesn't care about your excuses. Children are playing your game anyway? Well, we are shutting you down then. The result is this kind of thing.

sadgrip 5y ago
Well I'm very interested to see how this plays out. Knowing what I know about kids it seems like China is making the mistake helicopter parents. Some of the already over achieving kids might respond well to this but frankly as ridiculous as it sounds this is how you end up building generations who resent their government.
ajot 5y ago
> I have seen plenty of people calling for laws regulating mystery boxes for example on this very forum, and you could have the exact same parental responsibility argument there too. Although I totally get your point, I think there's a difference between both laws. "Loot box law" would limit what a company (or any legal person) can do, trying to save some physical person (a child) from some kind of harm (addiction) effected from the company.The "gaming law" limits what the physical person can do with their own time. I understand how a law that limits third-parties (and mostly, companies) is perceived different than a law that limits the self (or invades the responsibilities of the parents inside a family).

rococode 5y ago

For context, these are China's current restrictions on gaming for minors (under age 18): - Maximum 1.5 hours of gaming on weekdays - Maximum 3 hours of gaming on weekends - No games between 10pm and 8am (note that school typically starts between 7 and 8am) South Korea has similar types of restrictions, by the way. No gaming for minors (under 16) between midnight and 6am. I think Vietnam may have something similar as well.

chillwaves 5y ago
Not that I don't believe you, but Chinese teams compete at the highest levels of competitive gaming. There has to be some loopholes. Same goes for South Korea. Actually, China and South Korea are the two most dominant regions for many games.
- komaromy 5y ago
  Are there minors on the top-level Chinese teams?
  - dieortin 5y ago
    People who have played way less when they were minors would be at a big disadvantage compared to the rest of the world.
  - chillwaves 5y ago
    The average age is around 20 and I doubt they are training to the most competitive levels in just a year or two. > China's most famous e-sports player, Jian Zihao, has officially retired from gaming aged 23, citing ill-health. > He had been a professional gamer since 2012, playing League of Legends under the name of "Uzi". https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52920786 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52920786 He would have been ~15 in 2012.
- rococode 5y ago
  China's restrictions are pretty new (implemented in 2019) so their long-term impact is yet to be seen. And Korea's law is much less restrictive since kids can play as much as they like before midnight.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

perihelions 5y ago

This is I believe the first time in human history that AI video cameras have been widely deployed, inside private homes, for the purpose of enforcing laws. Never mind the banal details: this is an incredible milestone.

userbinator 5y ago
...a milestone towards the totalitarian dystopia previously only encountered in science fiction.
- isatty 5y ago
  This shit is so utterly unacceptable and yet there will be no significant mass behind protests against it. Why won’t you think of the children?
  - skocznymroczny 5y ago
    Nah, the new argument is "we need this to prevent spread of covid"
Proven 5y ago
They don't enforce anything, they just spy/record. Also those aren't laws, they are merely legislative acts.
ashleyn 5y ago
The real clever kids will eventually realise you can just tape a post-it note to your head with "ADULT" written in sharpie.
- fridif 5y ago
  draw on a fake beard ERROR: CANNOT BEGIN PLAY SESSION UNTIL PLAYER SHAVES FACE
  - AussieWog93 5y ago

optymizer 5y ago

So what happens if a minor staples a cutout of Wolverine's face on their face?

crvdgc 5y ago
I don't know if it's deployed in this case, but some facial recognition process in Chinese apps like Alipay requires the user to turn their face left and right to a certain angle, and the whole continuous movement is used for verification.
- jobigoud 5y ago
  Imagine being an adult and having to submit to that just to play some game at night...
eunos 5y ago
These days I assume mobile Computer Vision is smart enough to recognize fake face.

ausumm 5y ago

https://ausum.io/s/0cHhxkrkhPNdXca_jebdvkUQ7CJ7X3I_bWgkDCs_uuE https://ausum.io/s/0cHhxkrkhPNdXca_jebdvkUQ7CJ7X3I_bWgkDCs_u... - generated an audio summary that's 1 minute and 19 seconds, hope this is helpful!

bigmattystyles 5y ago

Obviously, the article's example is scary but I enjoyed this one https://driesdepoorter.be/theflemishscrollers/ https://driesdepoorter.be/theflemishscrollers/

softwaredoug 5y ago

Obviously there’s cultural factors at play, I just wonder whether strategically it’s wise to teach kids externally imposed restrictions rather than learning to restrict themselves intrinsically because something else is worth doing? It’s kind of the metaphor of the kid with the very strict upbringing that has no self control when they move away from their family.

zucker42 5y ago
Won't the government have no qualms about eventually applying similar restrictions and enforcement mechanisms to adults?
- userbinator 5y ago
  I see that as the long-term-goal: it's quite a cliche term by now, but they are really creating sheeple, slowly breeding out the rebelliousness and independent thought to be replaced by docile, obedient worshippers of the government.
  - rorykoehler 5y ago
    It's the one reason why I have hope that Chinese world domination attempts will fall flat. They will just be out thought eventually if they continue down this road.
  - novok 5y ago
    I dunno, the culture also has a strong basis of surface following the rules while getting around them in every way you can, typically way beyond a typical westerner. I think people shouldn't underestimate the way people counter react to rules they do not like or agree with on some level.
- dehrmann 5y ago
  Eventually?
zepto 5y ago
You can move away from your family, but not from government control.

umvi 5y ago

China seems on track to build the ultimate police state

elia_is_me 5y ago
it's tencent, not China - tencent just find a smart way to collect personal data. some giants like Tencent or Huawei or Alibaba, etc are always trying to collect citizens' personal data like your face id, your voices, you phone number, .... everything related to you.
- _rmrf 5y ago
  Tencent works with/for the CCP
- Valmar 5y ago
  Tencent, for all intents and purposes, IS the CCP. They must act according to the CCP's dictates.
  - elia_is_me 5y ago
    no, ccp is not kind of omnipotent power, especially for companies in south China like Tencent (which located in Shenzheng, Guangdong province) ccp ‘s control is weak. ccp is evil but at least not worse than tencent

underseacables 5y ago

As I read this the first thought that came to mind is if I were a kid, I would be very angry about it, and dedicate myself to defeating the system. I can’t help but hope the kids playing these games feel the same way.

Uehreka 5y ago
The problem is that then the CCP won’t respond with “Oh no! They circumvented our invasive measures!” They’ll say “Hmm, they circumvented our invasive measures, I guess we’ll need even more invasive measures that are harder to circumvent.” This isn’t a game kids are gonna be able to win if the government is sufficiently committed to this goal.
- Closi 5y ago
  Absolutely, and it also depends on enforcement. If you know there is no punishment for circumventing controls, then you would do it, however if you thought that circumvention might result in the CPP knocking on your door you would think twice.
  - cercatrova 5y ago
    What did C Plus Plus ever do to you?
    - logicchains 5y ago
      cpp isn't C++, it's the c preprocessor. Go type it in a Linux terminal if you don't believe me.
      - cercatrova 5y ago
        You are indeed correct, I was just making a joke however.
      - Macha 5y ago
        File extensions disagree, on the other hand

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

eloisius 5y ago

This is clearly (at least to the Western sensibilities) a vast government overreach into private life, but can we marvel for a second at a company employing AI to curb addictive behavior towards its product? I definitely don't agree with the government mandates dictating how and when you can play video games, but it is kind of incredible to see a company use AI for something other than encouraging addictive behavior like many US tech companies do.

Closi 5y ago
Companies like tencent are very different to private companies in the West - and will much more readily do what the Chinese government tells them to do. Private companies in the west will collaborate with the government at all, but they complain more and keep it secret. This move won’t be done from the kindness of their heart and to get kids to reduce gaming consumption - it will be a move they have been instructed to do from the Chinese government. These companies can’t really push back either - if you want an example see what happened to Jack Ma.
monsieurbanana 5y ago
Is it? The incredible thing would be if they used AI for something better than addictive behavior. Doing it for something worse is the expected course of action.
gentleman11 5y ago
> it is kind of incredible to see a company use AI for something other than encouraging addictive behavior like many US tech companies do. It still falls under the celebrated American umbrella of using ai to manipulate peoples behaviour and thinking
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
oefrha 5y ago
> employing AI to curb addictive behavior towards its product Not out of goodwill. Tencent profits hugely from gaming addiction, they know it and exploit it to whatever extent they could without drawing serious ire. They use their near monopoly on personal communications (WeChat, QQ) and huge market share on social media (WeChat), video streaming (Tencent Video) and other forms of media to subtly and not-so-subtly push their cash cow games, Honor of Kings being the prime example. I won’t list the shady tactics I’ve heard, which you can hear from I suppose any young urban-dwelling person in China. They are a big part of the problem in the first place.

x081ia2939 5y ago

What worries me is that this is at odds with Tencent's revenue model. How likely it is it that this was planned all along? Would it be possible that it's just the first step (nobody would argue about "protecting" children) to more invasive surveillance?

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
Wait, what? Are you implying that anyone would use concern for children as a Trojan horse to… yea just kidding… nothing new under the sun. My favorite triple fallacy is “We must do something, for the children, even if it just saves one life!”. Where can only consider an action and inaction or other action can’t possibly be right, if it’s for children it must be righteous, and all costs are outweighed by one precious life even though the effect could be greater elsewhere - usually without infringing on people’s rights. This is the plea of the scoundrel that can not win an argument on fact or merit.
novok 5y ago
Also a good way to induce paying to win more, because you don't have as much time to grind.

anonymousacc1 5y ago

Here we see an article in which a tech company is using AI in order to protect people from addiction. And we have the Western free-speech aficionados complaining about surveillance while their society is practically crumbling due to the freedom inherent in it (read drug abuse, social media addiction, sex, alcohol and porn addiction). They couldn't get themselves to wear simple masks during covid because of a requirement for freedom. I am an Eastern-educated immigrant who lives in the West. Honestly, I believe freedom is important in a lot of things. However, allowing companies like Coca Cola, Heineken, Robinhood, Youtube and Facebook to operate in the name of giving everyone freedom is one of the worst decisions in the Western world. These companies have exploited human biases to an extent at which our freedom is a manipulated freedom which works according to how they want. The Western concept of freedom above everything is a joke in modern society. It is based on the premise that everyone is smart enough to take decisions for themselves. However, due to inherent human biases, this is practically impossible. What this false assumption leads to is companies like Coca Cola, Heineken (or whatever other alcohol brands are popular), Facebook essentially ruling how we spend our time, money, health and energy. The Western concept of freedom above everything else is flawed

Tade0 5y ago
> The Western concept of freedom above everything is a joke in modern society. It is based on the premise that everyone is smart enough to take decisions for themselves. That's a misconception. The actual reasoning is that: 1. Everyone is equal in rights and responsibilities. 2. Those who use their rights wisely bring more value than the cost of decisions of those who don't. For some things 2. doesn't hold, so they're regulated. Motoring in general comes to mind as an example.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  The reasoning you cite is a retcon of the original reasoning that the OP got right. Beyond that, #1 is factually incorrect, Facebook has positive rights that you don't, and #2 almost never holds starting from the realization that you're assuming that profit is inherently wise and that maximizing profit almost always requires the maximization of externatility. So using your rights wisely to your maximum advantage essentially never brings the most value.

malwarebytess 5y ago

So that's how it begins.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
Begins? It began years if not decades ago already.
- malwarebytess 5y ago
  ubiquitous machine intelligence spying by networked devices in the home on behalf of or by the state? I don't think so. Technology wasn't there yet. This is a more competent telescreen.

rdiddly 5y ago

It's very ironic, isn't it. They're trying to protect kids. By spying on them.

takenpilot 5y ago
It's not ironic at all. All protection is traded with freedom.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
We in "the west" can't claim moral superiority unfortunately, we live in surveillance states ourselves and a ton of laws limiting freedom and removing privacy are made with the intent to "protect children" (and fight terrorism), both of which you can't morally object against. Children are sacred, terrorists are outlaws.
- w0de0 5y ago
  We absolutely can claim moral superiority, while being open to a critique of our hypocrisy - and to changing our ways based on this critique. To do otherwise than seek and claim moral superiority would be to concede to grim relativism; it would be to discard what progress we have made and what rights we still maintain; it would be to abandon an ideal that can yet still lead us to a better world. Lincoln wrote, in reference to abolition, that he “[would rather move] to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.” [0] But the irony is that hypocrisy drove him and this nation to emancipation, and an improved iteration of the city on a hill. 0 - http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/speed.htm http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/speed.h...
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    The argument basically boils down to the conclusion that we must keep our superiority complex to keep us sane. I'd rather have a correct assessment of myself. The hypocrisy Lincoln is talking about didn't lead his nation to emancipation, they delayed emancipation by over a hundred years. Emancipation was going to happen much earlier otherwise. There is no claim to moral superiority here. I live in the west and I guarantee you the government has facial recognition trained on me, access to public camera and to my phones' camera any time they please, and access to my voice prints. So I don't see why I should feel superior. I don't like lying to myself.

brookmg 5y ago

I wish for the world not to go this direction

qwertox 5y ago
So do I, but I've known of a case in the family where the 11 year old kid was left with his phone in such a way that he got into the habit of watching YouTube even after 11 pm on schooldays. He could have had an opportunity of enjoying a good education, but his abuse of his phone and the family's iPad left him with bad grades. So bad, that going to university was no longer an option. There are many career paths in Germany, so one could think that this might not really be an issue, but he also started messing up the alternatives. Now with Corona he is in a full limbo. And this is only close family, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a more widespread issue, so I do appreciate if methods are sought after to avoid these kind of unnecessary problems, which are just a manifestation of bad parenting, but having a camera with an AI behind it watching your every step or possibly listening into your daily life feels like the wrong approach. It is scary.

joaomoreno 5y ago

Yeah, but don't forget to keep making games more and more addictive so we all get rich.

xg15 5y ago

Gaming addiction is absolutely an issue - but it seems to be used to push all kinds of tech that has nothing to do with it. Like, how exactly does real-name registration combat addiction?

re-al 5y ago

This tech is only used is China, right? Our government don't access 'our' tech without permission. But hang on, is this or is this not 'meta-data'? Anyway, with coronavirus, its a must-have. We need our governments to track our moves in order to monitor vectors of attack. We need this tech - why can't we roll it out here?! /s

Tade0 5y ago

Is this an attempt at self-regulation? Perhaps Tencent fears that if they don't introduce limits, the government will hold them responsible for raising a generation addicted to gaming? Looks like a typical simple solution to a complex problem or, in other words, not a solution.

rvz 5y ago

Worldcoin is taking notes on this. Somewhere in the world. But again nothing scary about what Worldcoin, Tencent and others are doing right?

taneq 5y ago

Hmm, two incendiary articles about China on the front page. Either the CCP is truly expanding their publicly totalitarian actions, or someone else has something political to gain. I wonder which it is this time?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

juanani 5y ago

Well, definitely better than using AI to determine/murder Palestinian 'terrorists'.

anonymouszx 5y ago

>2018 >wake up feeling sick after a late night of playing video games >excited to play some halo infinite >"xbox on" >"XBOX ON" >"Please verify that you are "annon332" by saying Doritos™ Dew™ it right!" >"ERROR! Please drink a verification can" >reach into my Dontos Mountain Halo War Chest >only a few cans left, needed to verify 14 times last night >still feeling sick from the 14 >force it down and grumble out "mmmm that really hit the spot" >xbox does nothing >i attempt to smile >"Connecting to verification server" >"Verification complete!" >finally >boot up halo infinite >finding multiplayer match... >"ERRORI User attempting to steal online gameplay!" >my mother just walked in the room >"Adding another user to your pass, this will be charged to your credit card. Do you accept?" >"No!" >"Console entering lock state!" >"to unlock drink verification can" >last can >"WARNING, OUT OF VERIFICATION CANS, an order has been shipped and charged to your credit card" >drink half the can, oh god im going to be sick >pour the last half out the window >"PIRACY DETECTED! PLEASE COMPLETE THIS ADVERTISEMENT TO CONTINUE" >the mountain dew ad plays >i have to dance for it >feeling so sick >makes me sing along >dancing and singing >"mountain dew is for me and you" >throw up on my self >throw up on my tv and entertainment system >router shorts >"ERROR NO CONNECTION! XBOX SHUTTING OFF"

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
93po 5y ago
Xbox actually recently came out with an Xbox branded minifridge and it immediately made me think of this. Sounds like it's an april fools joke but Im pretty sure it's legit
Chris2048 5y ago
> the mountain dew ad plays > i have to dance for it This is the real nightmare, active (mandatory) ad participation. Drink the Kool Aid, say "Oh Yeah!!!"
svieira 5y ago
MOKEY-COKE! MOKEY-COKE! MOKEY-COKE! (If you've never read Venus, Inc. it's even better than Manna and it's more on-point; and it was written in the 1950s!) https://smile.amazon.com/Venus-Inc-Space-Merchants-War/dp/B00072BHXU/ref=pd_sbs_4/140-7656374-2445244 https://smile.amazon.com/Venus-Inc-Space-Merchants-War/dp/B0...

nirui 5y ago

I saw no spicy comment here, so let me add my: > a time-sensitive facial recognition ... linked with big data from the central public security system ... "We will conduct a face screening for accounts registered with real names and that have played for a certain period of time at night" ... Facial recognition is a welcome sign So here is the image in my head: A man, Mr Zhao, 35 years old, just finished showering, half naked, lying on his bed, playing a Tencent game before sleep. Then, all of a sudden, a pop up showed up, "To protect the flowers of our bright future, please verify you are you, Mr Zhao". Now, think what Mr Zhao would do? Get all dressed up, lights on and fully prepared for the "Verification Interview" with the AI (and maybe a night shift worker at Tencent too)? Nah... Probably not. Hahaha! Poor Mr Zhao, been forced to take a "bed photo", right? Well, it's funny to think until you realized a 8 years old could also lying on his bed a play Tencent game on parents phone before sleep. And what Tencent want to do? Capture optical data and possibly send it to multiple storage and processing sites over the Internet? Yeah, great idea, way to go boy! My final point: I use few Tencent products and I know a lots of smart engineers in Tencent. But been their user, I often just can't understand how can they design their product so wrong. This facial recognition powered "Child Predator" can be an example of that -- High tech? Yes; Very wrong? Yes. Could Tencent please put their talents to good use instead of build something brain-dead like this one?

alisonkisk 5y ago
Are you saying 8 yr olds play games with the camera pointed at their penis? A headshot of a topless child is not scandalous. There are issues here, but this isn't it.
- sidlls 5y ago
  You think a military dictatorship like China isn't going to (mis)use such images to help maintain control? I'd recommend reading some 1984. China is a genocidal, military dictatorship. I wouldn't be surprised if they force a hot war out of the cold one currently brewing.
- nirui 5y ago
  Problem is, you have no idea what people, not just kid would accidentally point their camera at. And you couple that with lay down position and a touch screen. No need to mention capture imagery of a child (which the system would totally do, and kids will give it a try believe or not) without consent from their parent alone is problematic regardless it's accidental or not. And above all, that system is useless to begin with. Think about following questions: 1) When do you verify? Before, during or after the game? 2) Do you have to verify at the spot at night? 3) How often do you re-verify? BTW, there is an anti game addiction system already in place in China, which is based on photo ID (Resident ID card) verification. In my opinion, the system is doing well enough already even for today's kids. If Tencent really care the addiction that much, maybe they should just shutdown the game server during the night.

mladeny 5y ago

isit2021yet 5y ago
Boomer
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  For what it's worth I'm a zoomer and I fully agree with who you're replying to.
isit2021yet 5y ago
I dont need facial recognition technology, Boomer detected.
viraptor 5y ago
Sure, but ideally we'd start by limiting the impact ad/attention-funded companies can have in our lives rather than concentrating on people who obviously will be affected by those companies.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

allochthon 5y ago

Technology, surveillance and privacy in China is an ongoing topic of interest here and in news outlets. (Obviously it's a topic that's of interest in relation to other places as well.) The excesses of one generation can lead to the reforms of a subsequent one, and I'm curious whether there will be a counter-reaction among young people in China if at some point they perceive a line to have been crossed, and where that line might be.

losvedir 5y ago

Horrifying usage aside... I'm curious about the tech here as it relates to structural bias. In the US there are frequent stories about how ML works well on white men, but not, e.g., African Americans and I think Asian Americans. There was that Twitter spat between Timnit Gebru and Andrej Karpathy about this subject, and whether it's "just" training data or inherent in ML, partly because of who runs the analyses and who the wealthy consumers are, etc. Having trained some models and fiddled with hyperparameters myself, I could see the argument that it's a little more than just the training data; for example, how the algorithm uses contrast or what kind of angles it picks up. But what I'm curious about is how well this system works here, developed by a Chinese company with Chinese developers for primarily Chinese users. Does it have better accuracy than Google on the same Chinese data set? Does it have worse accuracy on white people than Google? I imagine the data is not out there, but maybe there's some published research along these lines by Tencent, or others comparing algorithms or models trained on Tencent data sets to the western equivalents?

godelski 5y ago
A lot of that bias comes from the dataset used. CelebA is a common one but not the only one. In these datasets the faces are predominantly white. There's also the difficulty that darker faces are more likely to not gather as much detail given certain lighting conditions and so that affects Black people more even if you introduce an equal number of samples (so you need more diversity in lighting conditions for them). That said, Baidu and Tencent have datasets of predominantly Asian faces, so their bias should go in the other direction. Being better at Asian faces (probably they do well on white faces because they can pull from typical research databases), and then not so well at Black faces. But this is just a guess. We can't know without seeing the results (which then it is still hard to determine bias because of how results are presented).

markus_zhang 5y ago

Getting sick of this kind of things. I'm starting to think maybe I should remove as many electronics as possible and start learning electronics myself. It's sad that we are entering the golden age of electronics (with a bit of $$ and knowledge you can build products that are genuinely useful in a couple of weeks) and also the dark age of electronic surveillience. And it's everywhere.

citizenpaul 5y ago

Perfect for https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/