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FaceTime is coming to Android and Windows via the web

638 points by jbredeche 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jonny_eh 5y ago
This is great, now do iMessage!
Hamuko 5y ago
But iMessages isn't, ensuring its continued irrelevance in countries that are not the United States of America.
- strbean 5y ago
  If iMessage is supported on Android, that means that Apple users can to communicate with ex-Apple users without messages getting randomly black-holed. How else is Apple supposed to punish those who leave their ecosystem?
  - Hamuko 5y ago
    >How else is Apple supposed to punish those who leave their ecosystem? Memoji support on Android.
  - xmprt 5y ago
    Apple currently sees this as a competitive advantage but it's only a matter of time before these anti-consumer practices like locking down iMessage, high app store fees, not supporting right to repair, and planned obsolescence come to bite them in the back. Allowing everyone to use Facetime is just the first sign of this. Probably because they realized that very few people were using Facetime if they couldn't chat with non-Apple friends.
- sgt 5y ago
  Among iPhone users, iMessage is heavily used as it's simply the most pleasant solution out there for messaging. For what it's worth, I'm in South Africa and about 95% of my friends have iPhones. WhatsApp is very popular here, but for chatting I probably check WhatsApp three times a day, and I use iMessage almost continuously.
  - pier25 5y ago
    It's anecdotal, but in Mexico and Spain I don't know a single iPhone user that uses Messages. Everyone uses Whatsapp.
  - umeshunni 5y ago
    > For what it's worth, I'm in South Africa and about 95% of my friends have iPhones. You seem to be a very strange bubble: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/south-africa https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/south-afri...
    - urbandw311er 5y ago
      Just a hunch but if you Google “South Africa rich poor divide” it might seem a little less strange.
durnygbur 5y ago
Whichever videocall app which isn't from Facebook, Microsoft, or Google, I welcome.
bilal4hmed 5y ago
Its only 1 way which means an Apple user can send a link to a non ios user to join in. I as an Android user cant do that. Cross platform like whatsapp, duo or signal still win here
- dannyw 5y ago
  WhatsApp: Owned by a company that makes money invading your privacy. Duo: owned by a company that makes money invading your privacy.
  - nso 5y ago
    I had to get upper management involved once when trying to buy an Airport Express, because they wouldn't allow me to make a purchase at the Apple store without leaving my name and contact details.
    - kstrauser 5y ago
      It's ethically OK to lie in these situations. You think I gave Radio Shack my real PII whenever I wanted to buy a battery?
      - dylan604 5y ago
        I've given out 212-555-1234 as my phone number to so many random places, that I've accidentally given it out when I didn't need to hide my real number.
        olyjohn 5y ago
        Also just about everywhere... (xxx) 867-5309 works for rewards cards and things like that. Also at Walgreens, you can use (420) 420-4204. That was the number the cashier gave me there since I told them I didn’t have a rewards card.
        drewmol 5y ago
standardUser 5y ago
I always use WhatsApp or Instagram for non-work video chatting. FaceTime is completely irrelevant unless you just happen to have your entire social circle using one company's hardware with no exceptions.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  Right, so, that's why they announced the OP, to try to change that, right?
- k-mcgrady 5y ago
  …and this changes that (to an extent) by allowing iOS/Mac users to have FaceTime calls with people in different ecosystems.
  - crossroadsguy 5y ago
    No it doesn’t. Unless you expect others to be happy with an in-browser call experience while there are clearly other options available which are cross platform and superior. Yes, superior as well.
- CharlesW 5y ago
  > FaceTime is completely irrelevant unless you just happen to have your entire social circle using one company's hardware with no exceptions. No option is universal (not one of my kids' friends uses WhatsApp or Instagram, for example), although Zoom is near-universal in my family's world. FaceTime is a great option for friends/family who use iOS, and I'm glad to see Android and Windows support. It wouldn't surprise me to see it join Apple Music and Apple TV as an Android-native app.
  - lostgame 5y ago
    >> It wouldn't surprise me to see it join Apple Music and Apple TV as an Android-native app. I think the difference is those are paid subscription services - so the rare Android user who decides they want to pay for either of those services can - and the iOS user who is already paying with a family plan can share it with their kids' or SO's Android phones. With FaceTime, it's a free service; and supporting it on Android would just be a cost sink. My two cents. :)
radicalbyte 5y ago
As is, or will it be made good? The UX of the current version is poor on iPad / OSX. That was fine in the past - Skype was the only competition and that was horrible - but with Jitsi, Zoom and Discord killing it they've fallen miles behind.
- minimaxir 5y ago
  iOS 15 will have a lot of new Zoom-similar features. (e.g. Grid View and Backgrounds)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - radicalbyte 5y ago
    What about the really basic stuff: * Broken contact list (it's worse than Skype!). * Broken screen orientation. * Ringing on every Apple device you own under the sun. With their A-Team now on the case I'm sure that it'll get fixed.
    - mercutio2 5y ago
      What's broken about the contact list? What's wrong with ringing all your Apple devices?
      - pyr0hu 5y ago
        parent wants Apple to build a telekinetic device that can read parent's mind to decide which device to ring (obligatory /s)
      - radicalbyte 5y ago
        The weird mix of emails/phone numbers, which isn't obvious to merge/fix. It's an Apple product, I expect more. Ringing: because I have three Apple devices (MBA, MBP, iPad) and it doesn't automatically ring on the device I'm using. Again, that would be fine for someone else, but I expect more from Apple. It's like I don't get mad if a junior developer in my team makes a mess in PHP, but I would if a senior did. I have the same feeling for Apple vs MS/Facebook et al. Apple have shown that they can do awesome (the entire Macbook experience, the wifi, instant sleep which alway works.. fantastic hardware) so it hurts when they don't live up to their high standards.
alpb 5y ago
I wonder with the screen sharing feature working on desktops as well and meeting links that can be created ahead of time (w/ Calendar support), would it threaten the market for small teams using Microsoft Teams, Slack, Discord, Google Meet etc.
marinhero 5y ago
Maybe this means Apple will bring iMessage to Android in a year or two just to mess with Facebook Messenger.
- gundmc 5y ago
  Apple could have brought iMessage to android at any time. They explicitly choose not to because of the social pressure to buy an iPhone this places on youth. This was pretty explicitly laid out in the Epic v Apple case.
  - qalmakka 5y ago
    That plan only worked in the US though, and it spectacularly backfired everywhere else, where iMessage is mostly irrelevant. I know a guy that never set up iMessage on his iPhone - when I asked him why he didn't, he just told me he only uses SMS for OTP which he reads from the notification, so it never occured to him to open the Messages app at all.
    - raunak 5y ago
      It worked exceptionally well in the US though. You are a weird teenager if you have “green texts” - anecdata of course.
    - zamadatix 5y ago
      Doesn't seem like much of a "backfire", it gave Apple big strides in the US market and at worst resulted in less people using a free service Apple has to pay to operate in other markets.
  - protomyth 5y ago
    Yeah, green means kick whoever isn't using Apple out of the group chat. Apple basically promotes bullying of kids who don't have an iPhone.
- mitjak 5y ago
  ignorant q: does Messenger still hold much of market share? over the last few years almost all of my contacts transitioned to WhatsApp, Telegram or Signal. Messenger is just way too bloated.
kevincox 5y ago
Wow. That is unexpected. I have to say that FaceTime in a browser sandbox is one of the few Apple products I would consider using. I wonder what made them take this path? I also wonder if someone could build a Matrix bridge if it is available via web, that would be fairly cool. Some questions: - Is it phone-number based IDs? Or can I pick a username or get a random ID? - Is spam going to be a problem? Previous Apple had the advantage that you had to buy a multi-hundred dollar advice to call someone. Will they need to implement new spam measures (or will you simply have to add a contact first)?
- DoctorOW 5y ago
  This comment likely answers your questions https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27425909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27425909
- kwanbix 5y ago
  This is a honest question, so, what is so good about FaceTime? I have not used an iPhone since version 3GS, so it has been a while, but I understand it is just something similar to whatsapp video calls, google meet, or even zoom?
  - salamandersauce 5y ago
    It's just easier to use for Apple entrenched people. You can automatically see which of your contacts you can call with it and you can do it straight from the contacts app. Plus it will ring iPhone/Mac/iPad. Otherwise it's not considerably different.
    - xnyan 5y ago
      That's a bit dismissive. I use android and iOS devices regularly and of all the options facetime is what I use the most for the following reasons: 1) The latency is very good, which is critical for a comfortable video chat experience. 2) Performance and experience is reliable and consistent and it handles less-than-ideal network condition very well. It's the one that I know is most likely to give me an acceptable experience the first time.
twobitshifter 5y ago
Steve Jobs notably said FaceTime was built to be an open standard when he introduced it on June 7, 2010.
- rektide 5y ago
  And there is still seemingly zero expectation that FaceTime will be a standard. It's still a closed proprietary system. One that has web access to it now. Will non-Apple device owners be able to start FaceTime chats? TBD perhaps. Will non-Apple account holders be able to connect to FaceTime rooms? Maybe. Will they be able to create chats? Almost certainly not. It's unfortunate that the real spirit of creativity & innovation that Apple once believed in & knew has come to this. This is "progress", but such a narrow, corporately provided & limited window of progress, to me. I'm expecting friends will start expecting me to have an Apple account now & be willing to use their proprietary communications systems, now that the barrier is a bit lower, but I'd really rather not.
- justinsaccount 5y ago
  Close, he said they were going to make it standard (but then never did): "Now, FaceTime is based on a lot of open standards — H.264 video, AAC audio, and a bunch of alphabet soup acronyms — and we're going to take it all the way. We're going to the standards bodies starting tomorrow, and we’re going to make FaceTime an open industry standard."
  - chrischen 5y ago
    I believe it was something to do with the VirnetX patent troll lawsuits that prevented them from fulling that standard.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      That Texas Eastern Court single handedly held back progress for at least a decade for everyone in the world with their insane patent troll rulings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_for_the_Eastern_District_of_Texas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_f...
marcodiego 5y ago
If it is coming "via the web" doesn't this means linux support too?
- thekyle 5y ago
  I would say most likely yes.
2fast4you 5y ago
Let me know when they make an iMessage client for the web
phs 5y ago
Oh my. This is the last use case for the last apple product in the house.
atlgator 5y ago
It would be great if they offered iMessage cross-platform.
- Synaesthesia 5y ago
  The US is pretty unique in having iMessage as it's primary message platform. Something like 70% of US smartphones are iPhones. Everyone else in the world is using cross-platforms like WhatsApp, Telegram, etc.
JohnTHaller 5y ago
To clarify, this is FaceTime only (not iMessage) and can only be initiated by Apple users, not by Android or Windows users. I see this as handy when dealing with someone less technical with an iOS device that doesn't know how to install other apps (parents/grandparents).
Someone1234 5y ago
A lot of Apple's previous attempts at "web apps" have been pretty half-arsed. Including Apple Music currently. Let's see if this is any different. I'm currently using Signal on Windows/Android/iOS and apart from two annoyances it is fine. - No gif support on Windows (Android/iOS only) - Cannot add a second phone but can add a tablet. As soon as it detects a SIM card slot (with or without SIM in it) it only allows you to set it up as the primary device, rather than a secondary like a tablet.
- Black101 5y ago
  > I'm currently using Signal on Windows/Android/iOS and apart from two annoyances it is fine. A third one would be that they require a phone number?
- someonehere 5y ago
  You want half assed? FaceTime when it was announced by Steve Jobs, he himself up on stage said it would be open source. The developers in the front rows looked at each other and said, “did we say it would be open sourced?” It’s still not open sourced to this day.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - reaperducer 5y ago
    You want half assed? Not Apple's fault. See other replies in this thread that it was killed by a patent troll.
    - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
      Why would Apple be afraid of patent trolls? If they wanted to release it as an open-specification, they could.
      - zepto 5y ago
        Why do you think Apple is immune to patent lawsuits? They have frequently had to settle them.
luke2m 5y ago
Seems like something to take people’s attention off their other walled gardens.
AbraKdabra 5y ago
Or just use Jitsi Meet which requires no login, is cross platform, uses web standards and is open source.
ericffr 5y ago
So Apple doing a webapp means that they want to avoid the 30% tax from Android app store, if/when the need to charge comes up???
- SilverRed 5y ago
  It's not required. Apple music has a real android app and has you pay external to the app.
colesantiago 5y ago
It would be great if Apple introduced FaceTime for Plan 9 OS, that would be the only time I would use it IMO.
- sgt 5y ago
  I heard they have a whole team on it. All ex Plan 9 developers
willis936 5y ago
Does this not weaken the "E2EE" value proposition of FaceTime? If endpoints now go to any old browser then secret recordings are suddenly possible. All the downsides of a walled garden with none of the benefits.
- karmanyaahm 5y ago
  No fancy locked down software can stop someone from just putting another camera in front of the screen to record the call.
thekyle 5y ago
The new SharePlay feature is actually quite cool. You wouldn't think it would be terribly difficult to share a movie or TV show on a video call, but actually due to the DRM that everyone uses it's almost impossible. Using the normal screen sharing feature of most video conferencing apps simply doesn't work and shows a black screen instead of the video. The workaround that people I know have been using during the pandemic is the torrent the media and play from a local file which works fine, however it would be nice to have more legitimate means of doing it.
- userbinator 5y ago
  I suspect it's more like a natural consequence of using hardware overlays for video, which can't easily be captured by reading the normal framebuffer. The DRM came later.
- ahmedalsudani 5y ago
  That would defeat the purpose of DRM. Maybe rightholders won’t be as stringent since this is apple, but typically they insist on all participants holding a license.
- timidiceball 5y ago
  I got the impression that with Shareplay HBO Max subscribers could only watch HBO content with other HBO Max subscribers. (And then all involved parties are streaming from HBO, not the share initiator) It wouldn’t make any sense any other way, given you can sync TV to TV.
xd1936 5y ago
"FaceTime on Android(browser) is such a brilliant way of guaranteeing your Android friends will always have a lesser experience without completing excluding them. The video chat version of green bubbles."[1] 1. https://twitter.com/russellholly/status/1401950208133632004 https://twitter.com/russellholly/status/1401950208133632004
- threatofrain 5y ago
  I don't think it's productive to equate the green/blue color thing with the accessibility or parity of experience between web apps and native apps. The green/blue distinction is very meaningful. It tells you whether your chats are encrypted, which is not a default to SMS technology. In fact it would be more honest or accurate for Apple to display a padlock to inform you that you're secure; instead we have colors.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Also, international SMS/MMS incurs additional costs, so blue in iMessages lets me know it will not cost me anything, whereas green might be depending on the number to which I am sending SMS/MMS. Also, MMS is terrible.
    - 542458 5y ago
      Heck, domestic SMS costs money for lots of people!
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        That would be amazing to me in the US, I assumed everyone had unlimited SMS/MMS/within the US phone calls. I have not shopped for mobile plans in over a decade though.
        SilverRed 5y ago
        It varies by country. In Australia basically all phone plans have unlimited SMS but in places like south america and africa it seems common to charge huge rates for sms which is why whatsapp is so big over there.
avipars 5y ago
Amazing move by apple
butz 5y ago
Let's hope that FaceTime will work on Firefox too.
- robin_reala 5y ago
  It won’t: https://i.redd.it/w4z12et4mx371.jpg https://i.redd.it/w4z12et4mx371.jpg . Presumably this is “courage”? There’s an open webcompat issue: https://webcompat.com/issues/76499 https://webcompat.com/issues/76499
  - butz 5y ago
    I wonder if FaceTime is just looking at UA, or doing proper supported features check? Microsoft Teams supposedly are not working in Firefox because they use some old WebRTC standard. Apple should be building on new standards, right?
  - styfle 5y ago
    Looks like they’re using feature detection and Firefox is missing that feature https://github.com/webcompat/web-bugs/issues/76550#issuecomment-858285637 https://github.com/webcompat/web-bugs/issues/76550#issuecomm...
- amelius 5y ago
  It would be nice if someday opensource would get some official recognition. Because right now, hoping that something will work is the only thing we can do, even for government websites and apps.
aj7 5y ago
But not iMessage, so I still can't send a simple text message from a decent app from my Win 10 computer.
- whatch 5y ago
  Telegram is pretty decent
- nxc18 5y ago
  Seeing as Microsoft had a major lead with Skype, MSN/Live messenger, Xbox chat/parties, and Lync/Skype for Business among others, and was also in the phone space before Apple, it is kind of amazing messaging isn’t a far superior experience on Windows. I remember in the windows 8 era they were pushing a unified SMS/Skype metro app.
- mariojv 5y ago
  Signal has an OK Win10 app.
vladmk 5y ago
Yay!
yosito 5y ago
When is Safari coming to Android? This is the main thing preventing me from using Safari.
nwellinghoff 5y ago
Probably a step to compete with Zoom
NicoJuicy 5y ago
So, people without an iDevice get less functionality? Sounds like Apple.
- neonological 5y ago
  [redacted]
  - dang 5y ago
    Attacking and doxxing other users like this is obviously beyond the pale. Also pretty shameful. I've banned this account. Please don't create accounts to break HN's guidelines with. We're trying for a very different sort of site here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
jeremycarter 5y ago
Time to brush up on your WebObjects skills everyone! WebObjects never die.
golemiprague 5y ago
Can't they just make an app like whatsapp or instagram or any other messaging app does? They talk so much about diversity and treating everyone the same but Apple is responsible for one of the biggest class division these days. Kids who don't have iphone are marginalised because the iphone kids use the internal apple products rather than messaging/video that works cross platform. It is not a problem where whatapp is the leading app but in the US it seems like peole just use whatever in the iphone ecosystem. They do it delierately and intentionally to lock more and more people into their products while marginalising people who can't afford it. This is a vicious policy that stand against everything they seem to preach for.
nikolay 5y ago
Apple is trailing behind Google, Samsung, and Microsoft - all their "new" features are a catching up with the market leaders.
- sleepybrett 5y ago
  Hardly, the second screen functionality of samsung's tablets only work with windows 10 last I checked. Many of the continuity features that apple has been and continues to roll out are not present on the android platform at all and in the cases where they are (like second screen) they are to use a technical term, janky.
  - nikolay 5y ago
    Sorry, forgot Microsoft and added it.
suyash 5y ago
Death to FB messenger and WhatsApp ?
- madeofpalk 5y ago
  Why?
fareesh 5y ago
Does anyone have an example of a videoconferencing mobile web app that performs well ?
lurkerasdfh8 5y ago
Now one can only hope apple will add in code to run faceTime much slower on non-safari browsers, just like Google did with Firefox for meet. Ha. And then those practices will escalate and drive both companies to the ground :)
stevenicr 5y ago
Isn't facetime encrypted ? and assuming it is - would doing this android or web break that or keep it solid? Will the folks using iOs devices be warned that they are sharing audio/video with a lesser protected device? I wouldn't mind having another secure option that everyone could use easily.
- ehsankia 5y ago
  At the presentation at least, they said it would still be E2E encrypted even on the web. Duo is also E2E encrypted and supports web.
  - lostgame 5y ago
    tbh wouldn’t making FaceTime on web just essentially rebuilding a WebRTC system with the encryption layer and related metadata for formatting the stream?
    - ehsankia 5y ago
      Probably. Also, I'm not familiar with FaceTime's stack, but Duo was built from scratch on top of WebRTC. Justin Uberti, the co-inventor of WebRTC, was on the Duo team, as well as Hangout Video and Stadia. He recently left Google for Clubhouse apparently.
- jtdaugh 5y ago
  During keynote they said still end-to-end encrypted on web
- betteryourweb 5y ago
  Another reason to not give a shit about facetime, or any other proprietary video app, if it is or it isn't encrypted, guess what, I can guarantee that Apple and Daddy Govt got a back door into it, and you'll never know cause you can see their code... If it ain't open source, they are probably spying on your, or at least have the ability to!!!
infopedia 5y ago
Everyone is giving cross platform Video Conferencing support... Why should Apple stay behind...
anshumankmr 5y ago
From someone who uses the iPad and an Android Phone (I used the Notes App on iOS cause its very convenient but the web version of Notes is really poorly made)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
earth2mars 5y ago
why not create app, at least for android?! web browser experience is not that great on mobile, at least for mobile platform. Do Apple have resource constraint? or is it intentional?
- samsin 5y ago
  It's definitely intentional but the reason isn't exactly clear IMO. It could be resource constraints, in the sense that they don't want to dedicate resources to developing apps for other platforms. Another possibility is control over the environment that users consume their apps. Or maybe Apple sees exclusivity as a selling point of their devices, and an entry point into their ecosystem. Steve Jobs was against iTunes for Windows initially, and it took a lot of convincing from the board of directors to allow it.
jaimex2 5y ago
I'd refuse to use it just like anytime someone tries to setup a Zoom meeting.
perryizgr8 5y ago
Good news that Apple is at least thinking of interoperability, even if it is really basic. I am curious if their product can compete in the open market, though. Facetime UI/UX is quite horrible when compared to Whatsapp/Messenger. My prediction is that this feature will see negligible adoption and use, partly because the product is inferior compared to other pre-existing video-calling options.
Vinnl 5y ago
That's somewhat ironic, given that it's practically impossible to bring such a product to iOS via the web given Safari's lacklustre support and the inability to run alternative browser engines.
skc 5y ago
Spare a thought for Zoom. I don't see them surviving this.
- distances 5y ago
  Isn't Zoom mostly for businesses? They for sure won't be switching to Facetime. Facetime is also irrelevant outside of US so I'm not so sure this announcement has much effect on anything.
  - skc 5y ago
    Anectdata but I've attended three virtual funerals so far this year, all on Zoom. So I suspect there is plenty of brand recognition outside of business.
deleted 5y ago
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nikolay 5y ago
Some people here already crowned this as the Zoom killer. Really?! Have they ever used Zoom?! Zoom is an ecosystem now - unlike FaceTime, which is the typical walled garden of Apple!
- distances 5y ago
  How is Zoom an ecosystem? I was more than a year to the pandemic before joining the first Zoom meeting, to me it all seems to be Teams/Meet/Jitsi. Which obviously is a very biased view too, and just to suggest the Zoom dominance is probably only in your own circles.
  - nikolay 5y ago
    Zoom Apps [0], On Zoom [1], and more. Things like breakout rooms, SSO, hosts/co-host, polls, whiteboard, raising hands, webinars, live streaming to YouTube and Facebook, etc. Do you even know what Zoom offers today?! [0]: https://zoom.us/docs/en-us/zoom-apps.html https://zoom.us/docs/en-us/zoom-apps.html [1]: https://on.zoom.us/ https://on.zoom.us/
    - distances 5y ago
      No, I don't really know. I thought it's just the video call. TBH I have no intention to delve in either, they've been so shady that I will keep pushing my groups for anything else.
      - nikolay 5y ago
        I do and most people who chose to use Zoom over Google Meet and other competitors do it for those features. For classrooms, there's no other vital option except Microsoft Teams.
- aembleton 5y ago
  > Zoom is an ecosystem now What is in this ecosystem other than video calling? I use it everyday but didn't realise that there was an ecosystem around it.
fukmbas 5y ago
Too late, the people have spoken. Duo is the best, all our iphone friends use it over FT.
betteryourweb 5y ago
Who TF cares? Why TF is this news?
SeanFerree 5y ago
It's a good move! I'm surprised it has taken this long to get to Android
ChrisArchitect 5y ago
a simple compromise grab for zoom/facebook/google video users, that will also force a bunch of ppl to create apple IDs that didn't before. Lame. But also, web wins again. Your iMessage/Facetime isn't anything special, never was.
musicale 5y ago
Shame they didn't have this earlier in the pandemic, but better late than never! Remember how Steve Jobs promised at WWDC 2010 that FaceTime would be an "open industry standard?" It sounded like we'd have a standard for video calls across all phones. Still waiting for that, but this is a step in the right direction!
kadomony 5y ago
Color me shocked, this coming from a company that seeks to deplatform web applications as much as possible and box developers into an App Store that greedily takes a 30% cut. Anyone else remember the promise of PWAs on iOS?

638 points by jbredeche 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jonny_eh 5y ago

This is great, now do iMessage!

Hamuko 5y ago

But iMessages isn't, ensuring its continued irrelevance in countries that are not the United States of America.

strbean 5y ago
If iMessage is supported on Android, that means that Apple users can to communicate with ex-Apple users without messages getting randomly black-holed. How else is Apple supposed to punish those who leave their ecosystem?
- Hamuko 5y ago
  >How else is Apple supposed to punish those who leave their ecosystem? Memoji support on Android.
- xmprt 5y ago
  Apple currently sees this as a competitive advantage but it's only a matter of time before these anti-consumer practices like locking down iMessage, high app store fees, not supporting right to repair, and planned obsolescence come to bite them in the back. Allowing everyone to use Facetime is just the first sign of this. Probably because they realized that very few people were using Facetime if they couldn't chat with non-Apple friends.
sgt 5y ago
Among iPhone users, iMessage is heavily used as it's simply the most pleasant solution out there for messaging. For what it's worth, I'm in South Africa and about 95% of my friends have iPhones. WhatsApp is very popular here, but for chatting I probably check WhatsApp three times a day, and I use iMessage almost continuously.
- pier25 5y ago
  It's anecdotal, but in Mexico and Spain I don't know a single iPhone user that uses Messages. Everyone uses Whatsapp.
- umeshunni 5y ago
  > For what it's worth, I'm in South Africa and about 95% of my friends have iPhones. You seem to be a very strange bubble: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/south-africa https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/south-afri...
  - urbandw311er 5y ago
    Just a hunch but if you Google “South Africa rich poor divide” it might seem a little less strange.

durnygbur 5y ago

Whichever videocall app which isn't from Facebook, Microsoft, or Google, I welcome.

bilal4hmed 5y ago

Its only 1 way which means an Apple user can send a link to a non ios user to join in. I as an Android user cant do that. Cross platform like whatsapp, duo or signal still win here

dannyw 5y ago
WhatsApp: Owned by a company that makes money invading your privacy. Duo: owned by a company that makes money invading your privacy.
- nso 5y ago
  I had to get upper management involved once when trying to buy an Airport Express, because they wouldn't allow me to make a purchase at the Apple store without leaving my name and contact details.
  - kstrauser 5y ago
    It's ethically OK to lie in these situations. You think I gave Radio Shack my real PII whenever I wanted to buy a battery?
    - dylan604 5y ago
      I've given out 212-555-1234 as my phone number to so many random places, that I've accidentally given it out when I didn't need to hide my real number.
      - olyjohn 5y ago
        Also just about everywhere... (xxx) 867-5309 works for rewards cards and things like that. Also at Walgreens, you can use (420) 420-4204. That was the number the cashier gave me there since I told them I didn’t have a rewards card.
        drewmol 5y ago

standardUser 5y ago

I always use WhatsApp or Instagram for non-work video chatting. FaceTime is completely irrelevant unless you just happen to have your entire social circle using one company's hardware with no exceptions.

jrochkind1 5y ago
Right, so, that's why they announced the OP, to try to change that, right?
k-mcgrady 5y ago
…and this changes that (to an extent) by allowing iOS/Mac users to have FaceTime calls with people in different ecosystems.
- crossroadsguy 5y ago
  No it doesn’t. Unless you expect others to be happy with an in-browser call experience while there are clearly other options available which are cross platform and superior. Yes, superior as well.
CharlesW 5y ago
> FaceTime is completely irrelevant unless you just happen to have your entire social circle using one company's hardware with no exceptions. No option is universal (not one of my kids' friends uses WhatsApp or Instagram, for example), although Zoom is near-universal in my family's world. FaceTime is a great option for friends/family who use iOS, and I'm glad to see Android and Windows support. It wouldn't surprise me to see it join Apple Music and Apple TV as an Android-native app.
- lostgame 5y ago
  >> It wouldn't surprise me to see it join Apple Music and Apple TV as an Android-native app. I think the difference is those are paid subscription services - so the rare Android user who decides they want to pay for either of those services can - and the iOS user who is already paying with a family plan can share it with their kids' or SO's Android phones. With FaceTime, it's a free service; and supporting it on Android would just be a cost sink. My two cents. :)

radicalbyte 5y ago

As is, or will it be made good? The UX of the current version is poor on iPad / OSX. That was fine in the past - Skype was the only competition and that was horrible - but with Jitsi, Zoom and Discord killing it they've fallen miles behind.

minimaxir 5y ago
iOS 15 will have a lot of new Zoom-similar features. (e.g. Grid View and Backgrounds)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- radicalbyte 5y ago
  What about the really basic stuff: * Broken contact list (it's worse than Skype!). * Broken screen orientation. * Ringing on every Apple device you own under the sun. With their A-Team now on the case I'm sure that it'll get fixed.
  - mercutio2 5y ago
    What's broken about the contact list? What's wrong with ringing all your Apple devices?
    - pyr0hu 5y ago
      parent wants Apple to build a telekinetic device that can read parent's mind to decide which device to ring (obligatory /s)
    - radicalbyte 5y ago
      The weird mix of emails/phone numbers, which isn't obvious to merge/fix. It's an Apple product, I expect more. Ringing: because I have three Apple devices (MBA, MBP, iPad) and it doesn't automatically ring on the device I'm using. Again, that would be fine for someone else, but I expect more from Apple. It's like I don't get mad if a junior developer in my team makes a mess in PHP, but I would if a senior did. I have the same feeling for Apple vs MS/Facebook et al. Apple have shown that they can do awesome (the entire Macbook experience, the wifi, instant sleep which alway works.. fantastic hardware) so it hurts when they don't live up to their high standards.

alpb 5y ago

I wonder with the screen sharing feature working on desktops as well and meeting links that can be created ahead of time (w/ Calendar support), would it threaten the market for small teams using Microsoft Teams, Slack, Discord, Google Meet etc.

marinhero 5y ago

Maybe this means Apple will bring iMessage to Android in a year or two just to mess with Facebook Messenger.

gundmc 5y ago
Apple could have brought iMessage to android at any time. They explicitly choose not to because of the social pressure to buy an iPhone this places on youth. This was pretty explicitly laid out in the Epic v Apple case.
- qalmakka 5y ago
  That plan only worked in the US though, and it spectacularly backfired everywhere else, where iMessage is mostly irrelevant. I know a guy that never set up iMessage on his iPhone - when I asked him why he didn't, he just told me he only uses SMS for OTP which he reads from the notification, so it never occured to him to open the Messages app at all.
  - raunak 5y ago
    It worked exceptionally well in the US though. You are a weird teenager if you have “green texts” - anecdata of course.
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    Doesn't seem like much of a "backfire", it gave Apple big strides in the US market and at worst resulted in less people using a free service Apple has to pay to operate in other markets.
- protomyth 5y ago
  Yeah, green means kick whoever isn't using Apple out of the group chat. Apple basically promotes bullying of kids who don't have an iPhone.
mitjak 5y ago
ignorant q: does Messenger still hold much of market share? over the last few years almost all of my contacts transitioned to WhatsApp, Telegram or Signal. Messenger is just way too bloated.

kevincox 5y ago

Wow. That is unexpected. I have to say that FaceTime in a browser sandbox is one of the few Apple products I would consider using. I wonder what made them take this path? I also wonder if someone could build a Matrix bridge if it is available via web, that would be fairly cool. Some questions: - Is it phone-number based IDs? Or can I pick a username or get a random ID? - Is spam going to be a problem? Previous Apple had the advantage that you had to buy a multi-hundred dollar advice to call someone. Will they need to implement new spam measures (or will you simply have to add a contact first)?

DoctorOW 5y ago
This comment likely answers your questions https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27425909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27425909
kwanbix 5y ago
This is a honest question, so, what is so good about FaceTime? I have not used an iPhone since version 3GS, so it has been a while, but I understand it is just something similar to whatsapp video calls, google meet, or even zoom?
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  It's just easier to use for Apple entrenched people. You can automatically see which of your contacts you can call with it and you can do it straight from the contacts app. Plus it will ring iPhone/Mac/iPad. Otherwise it's not considerably different.
  - xnyan 5y ago
    That's a bit dismissive. I use android and iOS devices regularly and of all the options facetime is what I use the most for the following reasons: 1) The latency is very good, which is critical for a comfortable video chat experience. 2) Performance and experience is reliable and consistent and it handles less-than-ideal network condition very well. It's the one that I know is most likely to give me an acceptable experience the first time.

twobitshifter 5y ago

Steve Jobs notably said FaceTime was built to be an open standard when he introduced it on June 7, 2010.

rektide 5y ago
And there is still seemingly zero expectation that FaceTime will be a standard. It's still a closed proprietary system. One that has web access to it now. Will non-Apple device owners be able to start FaceTime chats? TBD perhaps. Will non-Apple account holders be able to connect to FaceTime rooms? Maybe. Will they be able to create chats? Almost certainly not. It's unfortunate that the real spirit of creativity & innovation that Apple once believed in & knew has come to this. This is "progress", but such a narrow, corporately provided & limited window of progress, to me. I'm expecting friends will start expecting me to have an Apple account now & be willing to use their proprietary communications systems, now that the barrier is a bit lower, but I'd really rather not.
justinsaccount 5y ago
Close, he said they were going to make it standard (but then never did): "Now, FaceTime is based on a lot of open standards — H.264 video, AAC audio, and a bunch of alphabet soup acronyms — and we're going to take it all the way. We're going to the standards bodies starting tomorrow, and we’re going to make FaceTime an open industry standard."
- chrischen 5y ago
  I believe it was something to do with the VirnetX patent troll lawsuits that prevented them from fulling that standard.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    That Texas Eastern Court single handedly held back progress for at least a decade for everyone in the world with their insane patent troll rulings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_for_the_Eastern_District_of_Texas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_f...

marcodiego 5y ago

If it is coming "via the web" doesn't this means linux support too?

thekyle 5y ago
I would say most likely yes.

2fast4you 5y ago

Let me know when they make an iMessage client for the web

phs 5y ago

Oh my. This is the last use case for the last apple product in the house.

atlgator 5y ago

It would be great if they offered iMessage cross-platform.

Synaesthesia 5y ago
The US is pretty unique in having iMessage as it's primary message platform. Something like 70% of US smartphones are iPhones. Everyone else in the world is using cross-platforms like WhatsApp, Telegram, etc.

JohnTHaller 5y ago

To clarify, this is FaceTime only (not iMessage) and can only be initiated by Apple users, not by Android or Windows users. I see this as handy when dealing with someone less technical with an iOS device that doesn't know how to install other apps (parents/grandparents).

Someone1234 5y ago

A lot of Apple's previous attempts at "web apps" have been pretty half-arsed. Including Apple Music currently. Let's see if this is any different. I'm currently using Signal on Windows/Android/iOS and apart from two annoyances it is fine. - No gif support on Windows (Android/iOS only) - Cannot add a second phone but can add a tablet. As soon as it detects a SIM card slot (with or without SIM in it) it only allows you to set it up as the primary device, rather than a secondary like a tablet.

Black101 5y ago
> I'm currently using Signal on Windows/Android/iOS and apart from two annoyances it is fine. A third one would be that they require a phone number?
someonehere 5y ago
You want half assed? FaceTime when it was announced by Steve Jobs, he himself up on stage said it would be open source. The developers in the front rows looked at each other and said, “did we say it would be open sourced?” It’s still not open sourced to this day.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- reaperducer 5y ago
  You want half assed? Not Apple's fault. See other replies in this thread that it was killed by a patent troll.
  - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    Why would Apple be afraid of patent trolls? If they wanted to release it as an open-specification, they could.
    - zepto 5y ago
      Why do you think Apple is immune to patent lawsuits? They have frequently had to settle them.

luke2m 5y ago

Seems like something to take people’s attention off their other walled gardens.

AbraKdabra 5y ago

Or just use Jitsi Meet which requires no login, is cross platform, uses web standards and is open source.

ericffr 5y ago

So Apple doing a webapp means that they want to avoid the 30% tax from Android app store, if/when the need to charge comes up???

SilverRed 5y ago
It's not required. Apple music has a real android app and has you pay external to the app.

colesantiago 5y ago

It would be great if Apple introduced FaceTime for Plan 9 OS, that would be the only time I would use it IMO.

sgt 5y ago
I heard they have a whole team on it. All ex Plan 9 developers

willis936 5y ago

Does this not weaken the "E2EE" value proposition of FaceTime? If endpoints now go to any old browser then secret recordings are suddenly possible. All the downsides of a walled garden with none of the benefits.

karmanyaahm 5y ago
No fancy locked down software can stop someone from just putting another camera in front of the screen to record the call.

thekyle 5y ago

The new SharePlay feature is actually quite cool. You wouldn't think it would be terribly difficult to share a movie or TV show on a video call, but actually due to the DRM that everyone uses it's almost impossible. Using the normal screen sharing feature of most video conferencing apps simply doesn't work and shows a black screen instead of the video. The workaround that people I know have been using during the pandemic is the torrent the media and play from a local file which works fine, however it would be nice to have more legitimate means of doing it.

userbinator 5y ago
I suspect it's more like a natural consequence of using hardware overlays for video, which can't easily be captured by reading the normal framebuffer. The DRM came later.
ahmedalsudani 5y ago
That would defeat the purpose of DRM. Maybe rightholders won’t be as stringent since this is apple, but typically they insist on all participants holding a license.
timidiceball 5y ago
I got the impression that with Shareplay HBO Max subscribers could only watch HBO content with other HBO Max subscribers. (And then all involved parties are streaming from HBO, not the share initiator) It wouldn’t make any sense any other way, given you can sync TV to TV.

xd1936 5y ago

"FaceTime on Android(browser) is such a brilliant way of guaranteeing your Android friends will always have a lesser experience without completing excluding them. The video chat version of green bubbles."[1] 1. https://twitter.com/russellholly/status/1401950208133632004 https://twitter.com/russellholly/status/1401950208133632004

threatofrain 5y ago
I don't think it's productive to equate the green/blue color thing with the accessibility or parity of experience between web apps and native apps. The green/blue distinction is very meaningful. It tells you whether your chats are encrypted, which is not a default to SMS technology. In fact it would be more honest or accurate for Apple to display a padlock to inform you that you're secure; instead we have colors.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Also, international SMS/MMS incurs additional costs, so blue in iMessages lets me know it will not cost me anything, whereas green might be depending on the number to which I am sending SMS/MMS. Also, MMS is terrible.
  - 542458 5y ago
    Heck, domestic SMS costs money for lots of people!
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      That would be amazing to me in the US, I assumed everyone had unlimited SMS/MMS/within the US phone calls. I have not shopped for mobile plans in over a decade though.
      - SilverRed 5y ago
        It varies by country. In Australia basically all phone plans have unlimited SMS but in places like south america and africa it seems common to charge huge rates for sms which is why whatsapp is so big over there.

avipars 5y ago

Amazing move by apple

butz 5y ago

Let's hope that FaceTime will work on Firefox too.

robin_reala 5y ago
It won’t: https://i.redd.it/w4z12et4mx371.jpg https://i.redd.it/w4z12et4mx371.jpg . Presumably this is “courage”? There’s an open webcompat issue: https://webcompat.com/issues/76499 https://webcompat.com/issues/76499
- butz 5y ago
  I wonder if FaceTime is just looking at UA, or doing proper supported features check? Microsoft Teams supposedly are not working in Firefox because they use some old WebRTC standard. Apple should be building on new standards, right?
- styfle 5y ago
  Looks like they’re using feature detection and Firefox is missing that feature https://github.com/webcompat/web-bugs/issues/76550#issuecomment-858285637 https://github.com/webcompat/web-bugs/issues/76550#issuecomm...
amelius 5y ago
It would be nice if someday opensource would get some official recognition. Because right now, hoping that something will work is the only thing we can do, even for government websites and apps.

aj7 5y ago

But not iMessage, so I still can't send a simple text message from a decent app from my Win 10 computer.

whatch 5y ago
Telegram is pretty decent
nxc18 5y ago
Seeing as Microsoft had a major lead with Skype, MSN/Live messenger, Xbox chat/parties, and Lync/Skype for Business among others, and was also in the phone space before Apple, it is kind of amazing messaging isn’t a far superior experience on Windows. I remember in the windows 8 era they were pushing a unified SMS/Skype metro app.
mariojv 5y ago
Signal has an OK Win10 app.

vladmk 5y ago

Yay!

yosito 5y ago

When is Safari coming to Android? This is the main thing preventing me from using Safari.

nwellinghoff 5y ago

Probably a step to compete with Zoom

NicoJuicy 5y ago

So, people without an iDevice get less functionality? Sounds like Apple.

neonological 5y ago
[redacted]
- dang 5y ago
  Attacking and doxxing other users like this is obviously beyond the pale. Also pretty shameful. I've banned this account. Please don't create accounts to break HN's guidelines with. We're trying for a very different sort of site here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

jeremycarter 5y ago

Time to brush up on your WebObjects skills everyone! WebObjects never die.

golemiprague 5y ago

Can't they just make an app like whatsapp or instagram or any other messaging app does? They talk so much about diversity and treating everyone the same but Apple is responsible for one of the biggest class division these days. Kids who don't have iphone are marginalised because the iphone kids use the internal apple products rather than messaging/video that works cross platform. It is not a problem where whatapp is the leading app but in the US it seems like peole just use whatever in the iphone ecosystem. They do it delierately and intentionally to lock more and more people into their products while marginalising people who can't afford it. This is a vicious policy that stand against everything they seem to preach for.

nikolay 5y ago

Apple is trailing behind Google, Samsung, and Microsoft - all their "new" features are a catching up with the market leaders.

sleepybrett 5y ago
Hardly, the second screen functionality of samsung's tablets only work with windows 10 last I checked. Many of the continuity features that apple has been and continues to roll out are not present on the android platform at all and in the cases where they are (like second screen) they are to use a technical term, janky.
- nikolay 5y ago
  Sorry, forgot Microsoft and added it.

suyash 5y ago

Death to FB messenger and WhatsApp ?

madeofpalk 5y ago
Why?

fareesh 5y ago

Does anyone have an example of a videoconferencing mobile web app that performs well ?

lurkerasdfh8 5y ago

Now one can only hope apple will add in code to run faceTime much slower on non-safari browsers, just like Google did with Firefox for meet. Ha. And then those practices will escalate and drive both companies to the ground :)

stevenicr 5y ago

Isn't facetime encrypted ? and assuming it is - would doing this android or web break that or keep it solid? Will the folks using iOs devices be warned that they are sharing audio/video with a lesser protected device? I wouldn't mind having another secure option that everyone could use easily.

ehsankia 5y ago
At the presentation at least, they said it would still be E2E encrypted even on the web. Duo is also E2E encrypted and supports web.
- lostgame 5y ago
  tbh wouldn’t making FaceTime on web just essentially rebuilding a WebRTC system with the encryption layer and related metadata for formatting the stream?
  - ehsankia 5y ago
    Probably. Also, I'm not familiar with FaceTime's stack, but Duo was built from scratch on top of WebRTC. Justin Uberti, the co-inventor of WebRTC, was on the Duo team, as well as Hangout Video and Stadia. He recently left Google for Clubhouse apparently.
jtdaugh 5y ago
During keynote they said still end-to-end encrypted on web
betteryourweb 5y ago
Another reason to not give a shit about facetime, or any other proprietary video app, if it is or it isn't encrypted, guess what, I can guarantee that Apple and Daddy Govt got a back door into it, and you'll never know cause you can see their code... If it ain't open source, they are probably spying on your, or at least have the ability to!!!

infopedia 5y ago

Everyone is giving cross platform Video Conferencing support... Why should Apple stay behind...

anshumankmr 5y ago

From someone who uses the iPad and an Android Phone (I used the Notes App on iOS cause its very convenient but the web version of Notes is really poorly made)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

earth2mars 5y ago

why not create app, at least for android?! web browser experience is not that great on mobile, at least for mobile platform. Do Apple have resource constraint? or is it intentional?

samsin 5y ago
It's definitely intentional but the reason isn't exactly clear IMO. It could be resource constraints, in the sense that they don't want to dedicate resources to developing apps for other platforms. Another possibility is control over the environment that users consume their apps. Or maybe Apple sees exclusivity as a selling point of their devices, and an entry point into their ecosystem. Steve Jobs was against iTunes for Windows initially, and it took a lot of convincing from the board of directors to allow it.

jaimex2 5y ago

I'd refuse to use it just like anytime someone tries to setup a Zoom meeting.

perryizgr8 5y ago

Good news that Apple is at least thinking of interoperability, even if it is really basic. I am curious if their product can compete in the open market, though. Facetime UI/UX is quite horrible when compared to Whatsapp/Messenger. My prediction is that this feature will see negligible adoption and use, partly because the product is inferior compared to other pre-existing video-calling options.

Vinnl 5y ago

That's somewhat ironic, given that it's practically impossible to bring such a product to iOS via the web given Safari's lacklustre support and the inability to run alternative browser engines.

skc 5y ago

Spare a thought for Zoom. I don't see them surviving this.

distances 5y ago
Isn't Zoom mostly for businesses? They for sure won't be switching to Facetime. Facetime is also irrelevant outside of US so I'm not so sure this announcement has much effect on anything.
- skc 5y ago
  Anectdata but I've attended three virtual funerals so far this year, all on Zoom. So I suspect there is plenty of brand recognition outside of business.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

nikolay 5y ago

Some people here already crowned this as the Zoom killer. Really?! Have they ever used Zoom?! Zoom is an ecosystem now - unlike FaceTime, which is the typical walled garden of Apple!

distances 5y ago
How is Zoom an ecosystem? I was more than a year to the pandemic before joining the first Zoom meeting, to me it all seems to be Teams/Meet/Jitsi. Which obviously is a very biased view too, and just to suggest the Zoom dominance is probably only in your own circles.
- nikolay 5y ago
  Zoom Apps [0], On Zoom [1], and more. Things like breakout rooms, SSO, hosts/co-host, polls, whiteboard, raising hands, webinars, live streaming to YouTube and Facebook, etc. Do you even know what Zoom offers today?! [0]: https://zoom.us/docs/en-us/zoom-apps.html https://zoom.us/docs/en-us/zoom-apps.html [1]: https://on.zoom.us/ https://on.zoom.us/
  - distances 5y ago
    No, I don't really know. I thought it's just the video call. TBH I have no intention to delve in either, they've been so shady that I will keep pushing my groups for anything else.
    - nikolay 5y ago
      I do and most people who chose to use Zoom over Google Meet and other competitors do it for those features. For classrooms, there's no other vital option except Microsoft Teams.
aembleton 5y ago
> Zoom is an ecosystem now What is in this ecosystem other than video calling? I use it everyday but didn't realise that there was an ecosystem around it.

fukmbas 5y ago

Too late, the people have spoken. Duo is the best, all our iphone friends use it over FT.

betteryourweb 5y ago

Who TF cares? Why TF is this news?

SeanFerree 5y ago

It's a good move! I'm surprised it has taken this long to get to Android

ChrisArchitect 5y ago

a simple compromise grab for zoom/facebook/google video users, that will also force a bunch of ppl to create apple IDs that didn't before. Lame. But also, web wins again. Your iMessage/Facetime isn't anything special, never was.

musicale 5y ago

Shame they didn't have this earlier in the pandemic, but better late than never! Remember how Steve Jobs promised at WWDC 2010 that FaceTime would be an "open industry standard?" It sounded like we'd have a standard for video calls across all phones. Still waiting for that, but this is a step in the right direction!

kadomony 5y ago

Color me shocked, this coming from a company that seeks to deplatform web applications as much as possible and box developers into an App Store that greedily takes a 30% cut. Anyone else remember the promise of PWAs on iOS?